Converting a Challenge car vs sell/trade - thoughts...

[john42]

I have a very nice MK3 Challenge car. It is incredibly well sorted, drives like a dream and is very fun in the autocross and fun races I've done. It is also fully street legal, real windshield, carpet, heater, wipers, lights etc. The only thing is non-functioning doors. After a year of crawling over and in, it strikes me that I won't be able to do this forever. Taking anybody that is 65+ for a ride is a significant challenge. Which brings me to the elephant in the room. I'm 55 now and all is well, but at some point within in the next 5-10 years I'm going to need doors. I viewed another Challenge car over this past weekend that had been converted to have doors and it doesn't appear to be overly hard to do. Cut a few bars, buy new doors from FF, and paint.

Before I go down that road, I know there is occasional interest in a Challenge car. If I could come close to getting out of it what I already have into I could budget myself into a MK2 or 3 with doors. If there's no interest... or at least no interest that services the budgeting well enough, I can convert to doors. Basically, putting this thought out there to the opinions of the internet to poke holes and figure out questions and problems I haven't thought of.

[Jessew]

I’d post it for sale, price it based on your bottom line with room to negotiate, and the market. Give yourself a timeframe and if it doesn’t sell, do the conversion.

[AC Bill]

Well besides new doors, you'd need new latches, strikers and hinges, not that is insurmountable. Not sure what the frame is like on the challenge cars in the area that hinges and latch strikers would need to be attached. Do you have an opportunity to study a regular roadster and see if yours could be adapted?
There are a couple of older threads on the FFCars.com forum of people having added proper doors, but unfortunately the pictures are no longer visible (damn photobucket).

[GoDadGo]

I think Mr. Bopp, Bopp, Bopp is still driving his Challenge car all over the place.
The doors are over rated anyway so enjoy that sucker any time you can.
Here is Mr. Bopp at Road Atlanta taking a little tour of the track:

Road Atlanta / The Mitty Event / 2019:
https://youtu.be/RkRVLuM6Xjo

[john42]

Well besides new doors, you'd need new latches, strikers and hinges, not that is insurmountable. Not sure what the frame is like on the challenge cars in the area that hinges and latch strikers would need to be attached. Do you have an opportunity to study a regular roadster and see if yours could be adapted?
There are a couple of older threads on the FFCars.com forum of people having added proper doors, but unfortunately the pictures are no longer visible (damn photobucket).

Aye.. I was able to study one that has been converted this past weekend. It's pretty straight forward. The door striker plate/latch was attached to the roll cage bar that happens to be in the perfect spot. The rest is just cutting the diagonal bar that comes down the side and cutting the first/top bar that goes through the door. The bottom bar through the door area is just below the door seam so that one stays. Buy new doors, striker plate and hinges, paint and done.

[john42]

I think Mr. Bopp, Bopp, Bopp is still driving his Challenge car all over the place.
The doors are over rated anyway so enjoy that sucker any time you can.
Here is Mr. Bopp at Road Atlanta taking a little tour of the track:

Road Atlanta / The Mitty Event / 2019:
https://youtu.be/RkRVLuM6Xjo

I'm certainly driving mine all over the place! 8k miles so far this summer!

[rthomas98]

Quick question, have you gotten in and out of a regular roadster with doors? When my door latch got stuck during my build I got in and out over the doors and to be honest the method is about the same as being able to open the door. Still got to push yourself up onto the back the seat before stepping out. To make it easier I usually leave the door closed to push up then I open it. Depending on your height might not be the same experience as me. I am 6'1".

But some food for thought before either cutting the door or buying a new car and having some regrets.

[mrmustang]

I have a very nice MK3 Challenge car. It is incredibly well sorted, drives like a dream and is very fun in the autocross and fun races I've done. It is also fully street legal, real windshield, carpet, heater, wipers, lights etc. The only thing is non-functioning doors. After a year of crawling over and in, it strikes me that I won't be able to do this forever. Taking anybody that is 65+ for a ride is a significant challenge. Which brings me to the elephant in the room. I'm 55 now and all is well, but at some point within in the next 5-10 years I'm going to need doors. I viewed another Challenge car over this past weekend that had been converted to have doors and it doesn't appear to be overly hard to do. Cut a few bars, buy new doors from FF, and paint.

Before I go down that road, I know there is occasional interest in a Challenge car. If I could come close to getting out of it what I already have into I could budget myself into a MK2 or 3 with doors. If there's no interest... or at least no interest that services the budgeting well enough, I can convert to doors. Basically, putting this thought out there to the opinions of the internet to poke holes and figure out questions and problems I haven't thought of.

Speak with Jesper at Factory Five, he had a set of working doors on his early FFR spec racer. If memory serves me correctly, he had a pin system instead of the actual door latches that worked quite well. With the doors open, it was easier to climb around the side tubing to get in and out of the car.

Bill S.

[john42]

Speak with Jesper at Factory Five, he had a set of working doors on his early FFR spec racer. If memory serves me correctly, he had a pin system instead of the actual door latches that worked quite well. With the doors open, it was easier to climb around the side tubing to get in and out of the car.

Bill S.

Ooo I like that idea.

[Jim1855]

I have a Challenge car and have watched a few Roadsters go together.

If you remove the side diagonal bars, the ones from the roll bar to the door jambs, and then the door side cage bars are you concerned that the Challenge car doesn't have the transmission tunnel bracing between the rear bulkhead and the firewall/dash? Removing these support pieces forces the 4" frame tubes to provide the bend strength of the chassis. Just asking, not sure if it matters or you care.

I've never been a fan of removing strength and rigidity.

Jim

[Jeff Kleiner]

I have a Challenge car and have watched a few Roadsters go together.

If you remove the side diagonal bars, the ones from the roll bar to the door jambs, and then the door side cage bars are you concerned that the Challenge car doesn't have the transmission tunnel bracing between the rear bulkhead and the firewall/dash? Removing these support pieces forces the 4" frame tubes to provide the bend strength of the chassis. Just asking, not sure if it matters or you care.

I've never been a fan of removing strength and rigidity.

Jim

Jim,
Yes, removing those bars will reduce chassis rigidity but keep in mind that the Mk1 roadsters did not have the tubular transmission tunnel “backbone”. Those cars, even the ones that did and still do see track time didn’t fold up on themselves without it. If the car was going to see competition or a significant amount of track use I agree that the structure should be left intact both for the sake of rigidity as well as for safety but to serve as a street cruiser removing the bars will effectively just render it a Mk1…and there are plenty of those out there running around ;)

Jeff

[john42]

Jim,
Yes, removing those bars will reduce chassis rigidity but keep in mind that the Mk1 roadsters did not have the tubular transmission tunnel “backbone”. Those cars, even the ones that did and still do see track time didn’t fold up on themselves without it. If the car was going to see competition or a significant amount of track use I agree that the structure should be left intact both for the sake of rigidity as well as for safety but to serve as a street cruiser removing the bars will effectively just render it a Mk1…and there are plenty of those out there running around ;)

Jeff

Thanks Jeff! That has been a concern as well. To be clear, the only bars removed from the car I'm using as "an example" was the diagonal and the first (top) door bar. The bottom door bar and the rest was all left in place. Not sure how much that would change the rigidity overall. It's certainly not a full gut of the cage either.

[Jacob McCrea]

I don't know much about Challenge Cars or converting them to functioning doors, but the old saying about the "devil you know vs. the devil you don't" has guided me well over the years.

[Garry Bopp]

John,

I’ve got close to 30,000 miles on my Challenge Car. I’ll be 73 next month and I don’t have any issue with stepping over the roll cage. I hope when you are my age you will still be able to enjoy your car as I do. If you have mobility issues, you might consider going with a car that has functioning doors. If you really are set on having doors, you are best off selling the Challenge Car and finding a nice used Mk3 or Mk4. Trying to modify the Challenge Car for functioning doors seems to be an exercise in frustration. I’m sure it can be done but is it really worth it?

Garry

[john42]

The current thought I'm mulling around is just removing the diagonal bar. That would make it a lot easier to get in and out. Also going to regular roadster bucket seats instead of highback Kirkeys would certainly make it easier. I also really want to be able to rest my arm on the door while cruising since the diagonal bar prevents that.

I can easily make a pin setup for removing the doors when my mother-in-law (age 82) wants to go for a ride. Currently we use a step stool. It takes a lot of effort. It is really hard for her to get out. She loves going for a ride tho and insists on going!