Daytona Wind Wings

[LateApex]

I am wondering if anyone has recommendations for A-pillar mounted wind wings for a Gen 3 Coupe. Even just hardware for wings would be appreciated. I can form Lexan / poly carbonate wings as need be.

I am not trying to direct air flow to the legacy rear brake scoops behind the doors - these are non-functional in my build; rather considering how to vent the cabin a bit. This suggests an adjustable wind wing: one that can help deflect precipitation from getting sucked into the cabin in certain circumstances, and can be readily adjusted to push fresh, cool air into the cabin in others.

So ... I got a temporary permit today that gives me 24 hours of legal driving. The intent is to meet with the state patrol for a VIN assignment inspection tomorrow. Thought it would be a good idea to be "legal" :-). But a 24-hour tag comes with ... 24 hours. What to do? What to do?

Rack miles up in the canyons. Bed the brakes. Calibrate the speedo. Familiarize yourself with the handling. I may drive through the night :-)

Here in CO, where the sun shines a lot, first impressions include needing window film on the wind screen and rear hatch. I dodged the idea of putting functional hood scoop-based footwell venting, because ... it was too hard to for my peanut sized brain to tackle. But despite thermal insulation, the cabin is hot, and needs venting. Hence my question.

Answers that start with "You shoulda installed air conditioning ..." need not apply :-)

This little project's fun factor just had a seismic jump !

Thx in advance ...

[Skuzzy]

If you want to evacuate air from the inside of the cabin, maybe open up some area at the back of the car, below the air dam. That area should be protected from rain as well.

However, that may not help if the foot wells are getting hot. You would need to pipe in air to the foot wells to evacuate any hot air.

[GoDadGo]

Steve's Stupid Question?

What about ducting cabin air out of the rear spoiler like they did on CSX 2299?

Article With Pics:
https://heacockclassic.com/articles/shelby-daytona-coupe-1965-world-sportscar-champion/

The Mythical/Magical Car Doing What It Does So Well:
https://youtu.be/buWIbGEd-lc

It would likely only work at higher speeds but might yield the results that you are looking for by removing air from the cabin.

Good Luck & Happy Driving!

[racingandfishing]

http://www.norcal-cobras.com/store/russ_garage/t65/t65wps.html

[LateApex]

http://www.norcal-cobras.com/store/russ_garage/t65/t65wps.html

Have you used these?

I note the design intent is to help route air to the rear scoops, which may actually work.

I am thinking about something that may be adjustable - or - maybe add a trim tab to this set

[LateApex]

My footwells are staying pretty cool actually. I spent a lot of time installing firewall and heat insulation.

I almost pulled the trigger on designing a vent in the rear spoiler as Steve notes, but as I molded the spoiler to the rear (as opposed to riveting), I decided instead to fill that area inside the spoiler with a foaming urethane to add some strength - at speed, the down force of the ducktail as a complementary shear force ...

I may actually mold a lexan rear hatch cover. If I do that, I can cut a couple of holes and add a couple of round window vents such as were used on the coupe side windows ...

[GoDadGo]

What about molding some NACA type vents (pointing aft) in the roof?

https://www.vividracing.com/reverie-naca-duct-147-25mm-rectangular-outlet-p-152631627.html

The Gullwing Mercedes had roof vents so it might be an easy option.

[LateApex]

Indeed I have been considering NACA Ducts. I wish I had thought this venting topic through a bit more before I finished the paint ...

Here is a shot of louvers from Run Cool that I installed on the bonnet:

187257

These louvers are about 5.5" in width, and have a 3/4" pitch

I have recently learned that the best place to draw air out of the cabin is just aft of the windshield on the roof line. If I can find (or make) a differently profiled set of louvers that have the same pitch and appearance as my bonnet louvers, say for example with only three louvers and maybe 8" wide, I can easily cut them in and install them after painting only them - there is no finish work required on the roof (aside from the holes). These would "hide" above and in front of the roll cage. My query is out to Run Cool, and if they can fab these, I'll post that info.

Both NACA and louver options will keep rain out of the cab at speed, which means I may not need to fabricate some sliding door or some such to use when the car is caught in the rain.

The hood louvers do help keep manifold air temperature down unless one is stuck in a parade. There is little active venting of the engine bay without some solution like this IMO.

[LateApex]

I had thought about making the faux-vents in the kamback functional, but that location is exactly where the rear of the body is attached to the frame brackets. Hmmmm.

I had thought about making the duck tail spoiler functional, as had been done on the originals (with only modest benefit), but I chose instead to flush mount that spoiler and after the epoxy work, filled that space between spoiler and body fiberglass with expanding polyurethane foam (Red Devil) for extra strength.


187258

[Bill-53]

I applied for my assigned Vin number about three weeks ago. Here in Mesa County on the western slope. I got a three day tag. I put about 30 miles on the car went to a truck stop to get a certified wait and took it to an alignment shop. That’s about it. Now I’m just waiting for it all to get processed.

[LateApex]

I am on the front range. I got a 24-hour temp tag to go to the state patrol office for road-worthiness inspection (Step 1 in the VIN assignment process). I took that form the same day to the DMV, paid my taxes and got a 60-day temp tag. That expired, and the DMV gave me a 30-day extension. That expired and I had to wait another ~30 days for the call from the State Patrol to come in and get the VIN plate affixed. I had to get a 10-day tag to drive to the patrol office. That same afternoon, I got my plates. 1 year and 3 days from receipt of first parts from FFR to temp tags. 4 months from there to plates on the car. Hmmm ...

Go get some tags Bill, and enjoy some driving this Summer !

[LateApex]

I thought I'd air a couple of related things that I am working on. Pun intended

Oh, yes, my car is done. But define "Done"

Background: I built the Coupe without AC or Heating and related plumbing. I also did not install functional fender scoops for foot well venting. Instead, I opted for solid interior and firewall insulation. I also have no side windows. I am actually quite happy with this setup, except as pertains to exhaust noise and driving for several hours when the outside temp is 90 degrees ++

Per GoDaddyGo's note above, I have been looking at NACA ducting. Of course, I wish I had looked at this before painting the body, but that is just a technicality :-) These cars are after all "a work in progress" ...

NACA ducting is quite interesting. The idea here is to place ducts such that they evacuate air out of the cabin. "Backwards" as NASCAR has called it. The ducts need to be integrated such that transitions are smooth and basic geometries, such as length to width, duct ramp angle, duct height and the basic side profile are considered properly.

I am carefully considering cutting some holes in my roof, and placing ducts behind the seats, almost aligned with the rear hatch mounting arms. I think such a placement will provide a nice draft through the cabin, while not allowing rain into the cabin. There are a number of folks who sell ducts on eBay or other sources, but the devil is in the details. For example, the Coupe roof is not flat.

I have experience laying up fiberglass and Carbon Fiber. In fact, I did the body work on my coupe. So building molds, or plugs to shape a NACA duct is step one in this process. Step two will be cutting holes in a finished roof (Yikes !) Step three is affixing the ducts and smoothing the transitions. Step four is wishing I had done this before I had finished and painted the body ....

Now that we are getting air out of the cabin, now I get to rethink how I want to get better air into the cabin. So step six it to make functional A-pillar air deflectors, which would shape air flowing off the windscreen and direct said air to the rear quarter plexi scoops, a.k.a. my Big Ears. Copying the original design seems fair.

Step seven is fabricating door windows of the same kind as used in the originals.

Ahh, I see now that I have revealed my intent, which is how to reduce cabin noise. I built without windows for the clean look and the simplicity of the build, i.e.: not integrating AC systems, dash vents and so forth. I have spent a lot of time working on exhaust noise, but there is nothing to be done about exhaust pipes that are 2' from your ears, except maybe to reroute active exhaust to the rear, without the needed clearance between frame and road ... that is a HARD topic. So, I am planning to close up the cabin, and rely on a decent cabin venting scheme to quiet things down while keeping me cool.

I need to go get a job or something, so that I am haven't the time to think about "little" improvements like this. Or maybe start on a new car ... Hah! Pick yer poison ...

[LateApex]

FWIW, I am 3D printing some plugs for fabricating fiberglass / CF 8" x 5" NACA ducts. PM if this is of interest in your project. I am also actively working on A-pillar wind wing stainless steel mounts, and will be heat-forming the plexiglass shortly. If anyone has a pattern for upper or lower mounts (for a Gen3 Coupe's body shape), those details would be muchly appreciated. Else I am off to the Shelby American Collection to take some detailed photos this weekend - I am a lucky boy: that museum is 5 miles away :-)

It's too damn hot to drive a.t.m. The shop is cool however ... :-)

[LateApex]

Here is a NACA plug I fabricated today:
187917

I decided work this in pine instead of 3D printing the part. I have a decent woodworking shop. It is not quite finished yet, but will be tomorrow.

I'll use this to fabricate a fiberglass layup for my ducts. They are 8" long and 4" wide, with a depth of 0.8". I will place these just forward of the rear hatch mounting points. Jury is still out whether these will be in a flat black, or whether I will throw a coat of Viking Blue on them, as is the color of the car.

There are resources out there for NACA duct design. Now what you might do with those design points ...

Step 2 will happen after the snow starts to fly this late Fall. Need to steel myself to cutting holes in a perfectly good roof :-)

FWIW ...

[LateApex]

A quick update: Here are the A-pillar deflectors I have been fabricating:

188920

These are not as easy as one might think to fabricate. Polycarbonate (sometimes branded as Lexan) is very familiar to those who race. Working with it is "interesting", particularly if you want to form it. I intend to form it, placing a curl in the inside leading edge. Thermo-forming is somewhat well documented, but involves making a mold and a plug, and drying the polycarbonate for as much as 12 hours before raising the temperature to the point where the material becomes soft / pliant. The photo shows flat material; bending it in an oven will happen in a couple of days.

The other challenge is the mounts. I chose stainless steel, but working with stainless (i.e.: cutting, drilling holes, bending and finishing) also requires one to engage the brain before the tool. Shaping the brackets is tough in itself, as the lower bracket is attached to the curve below the A-pillar, and the other bracket is attached near the roof line at the top of the A-pillar - none of this lines up of course, and left and right sides are not isomorphic. Prototyping in aluminum helps.

I won't drill mounting holes until sometime in the dead of Winter. Pucker-factor is high.

There is actually a decent draft (even without the deflectors) through the rear quarter panel scoops, a.k.a.: "big ears".

I am next tackling designing and building side windows. This project is also not quite as easy as it may sound. I am angling for a cleaner implementation than the FFR supplied window option. The clear bits (polycarbonate) are straightforward, including slider and vent; the window framing and mounting is the trick ...

FWIW

[drewr]

I bought some wind wings from Russ Thompson last December. That was my last communication with him prior to his getting sick. He cut the Plexiglas for me and sent me a pattern for the mounts. He said to use aluminum. I'm happy to share if you still are looking for mounts.

[LateApex]

I bought some wind wings from Russ Thompson last December. That was my last communication with him prior to his getting sick. He cut the Plexiglas for me and sent me a pattern for the mounts. He said to use aluminum. I'm happy to share if you still are looking for mounts.

That would be terrific. I have fabricated some AL mounts, but have not drilled the fiberglass yet, and have not thermoformed the curl on the leading edge of the Polycarbonate yet. Perfect time to assess how my mounts compare to Russ'. I bought a couple of items from Russ - great guy!

Thanks for the offer!

... Bob

[drewr]

I'll try to scan the pattern to see if I can post it in a way that you can see the scale. It is just on an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet. It I can't get it to reproduce in scale, I might have to mail you a copy. Maybe message me your email and I can send the scan to you.

[Mountain-Metalworks]

Hey Guys,
I might have some of Russ' templates used for the mounting plates in the material I got from his shop after his passing and me taking over the Turn Signal and other production. I simply haven't had a request yet so I haven't dug deep enough at this point in lieu of turn signals, throttle pedals, dropped trunks, etc...
If there is a continued need I'm hoping that I can produce both the wind wings and the mounting. All pieces(polycarbonate, aluminum, and stainless steel) would be waterjet cut at our shop to the dimensions Russ had been using. With additional machining/tooling capabilities than Russ had as well, we might be able to make improvements if you guys are finding possibilities.

Let me know if you need anything,

-TJ
Mountain Metalworks

[drewr]

190579

Here is the page Russ sent me. He recommended 0.063 5051 aluminum. I'd be interested if you are planning to fab these parts. I have some shaped plexiglas that he sent me.

[LateApex]

Great TJ! Glad you are continuing this work!!

[Mountain-Metalworks]

190579

Here is the page Russ sent me. He recommended 0.063 5051 aluminum. I'd be interested if you are planning to fab these parts. I have some shaped plexiglas that he sent me.

Hey Drewr,
Those parts would be pretty quick and easy to cut on the waterjet and bend. Russ didn't have any dimensions on that sheet so I'm guessing he wanted you to trace the actual parts from the paper 1:1 scale. I'd love to get a copy of that to compare with templates I received from Russ' shop. I'll PM you about a potential copy.

Thanks,
-TJ