Oil pan below frame - Coyote, Canton oil pan, MK4

[GTBradley]

173066

I'm looking for input from the Coyote crowd to see if my oil pan hanging below the frame is normal. I have the Canton, low profile, oil pan and have always assumed that it was the same dimensions as the Moroso, as they look the same to me. It hangs about a half inch below the frame. Recently, I noticed that I scraped it on a speed bump too.

So, what do you think, is yours higher and if so, how do I go about fixing it?

[facultyofmusic]

Mine looks the same. I thought it was fine. Interested in hearing other replies.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Did you install the FFR engine mount spacers?

Jeff

[Al_C]

Looks low to me. I just went out to the garage to check mine - it isn't below the frame. I think Jeff hit on it with the spacer question.

[GTBradley]

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Did you install the FFR engine mount spacers?

Jeff
I thought I did. Does it look like the spacer in these pictures?

[42Bfast]

Mine was low too. I ordered the 3/8” spacers from Whitby. They come in pairs and are nice machined aluminum. Ended up using only one on the driver’s side.
Currently it is level, the pan (Moroso) is about a 1/4” or so above the frame rail, and now have about 3/8” clearance to the driver’s footbox. Previously I had a sheet of paper clearance from the head to the footbox.

[edwardb]

I thought I did. Does it look like the spacer in these pictures?

Yes, you have the spacers installed. Those spacers internal to the motor mounts replaced the previous external ones, e.g. from Whitby. Also with updated sheet metal from several years ago, no longer necessary to only have the spacer on one side.

I've used the Moroso pan on my Coyote builds. I don't know how it compares to the Canton pan. I don't remember that my 20th Anniversary Roadster hung below the frame, so searched for pictures. This cropped one is the best I could find. You can just see the line of the pan at/above the frame rails. Gen 2 Coyote, Moroso pan, internal motor mount spacers. Not sure what to say about yours.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ab234/edwardb123/IMG_1625_downsize.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ab234/edwardb123/IMG_1625_downsize.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)

[Jeff Kleiner]

Those are the spacers Bradley. I’ve run any number of Coyotes with Moroso pans through here and they all are like Paul shows. I just snapped this photo of one that I’m working on currently.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173074&d=1664196775

I’m afraid your Canton pan is the red herring and unfortunately the way the Coyote mounts mate to the block there really isn’t an easy way to move the engine farther up.

Jeff

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[magicmarto]

I have the Moroso with a Gen II Coyote. The pan sits about 1/4" above the 4" frame rails. Its the aluminum version instead of steel. Just to add another level of protection I made a skid plate. On the front of the skid plate I turn the front edge up and on the back of the skid plate I turned it down. 173080 Just wanted to make sure that If I hit a rock or something else, the aluminum pan would have all the protection I could give it.

[magicmarto]

I have the Moroso with a Gen II Coyote. The pan sits about 1/4" above the 4" frame rails. Its the aluminum version instead of steel. Just to add another level of protection I made a skid plate. On the front of the skid plate I turn the front edge up and on the back of the skid plate I turned it down. 173080 Just wanted to make sure that If I hit a rock or something else, the aluminum pan would have all the protection I could give it.173081173082173083

[GTBradley]

So, if I have the spacers and the Coyote frame support as delivered by FFR I really don’t understand why mine is lower. I’m going to look into the dimensions of the Canton versus Moroso oil pans and see if that might be the cause.

Anybody out there get the Canton oil pan from Mike Forte with their engine package instead of the Moroso?

[Hacksaw84]

Just to add another level of protection I made a skid plate.

I would be a little careful with that plate. Its a good idea but I'm guessing the motor moves more than a 1/4" under load, might be rubbing the plate some of time.

[Hacksaw84]

So, if I have the spacers and the Coyote frame support as delivered by FFR I really don’t understand why mine is lower. I’m going to look into the dimensions of the Canton versus Moroso oil pans and see if that might be the cause.

Anybody out there get the Canton oil pan from Mike Forte with their engine package instead of the Moroso?

I'm pretty sure you can still add the whitby spacers under the motor mounts to get some more clearance. Just as long as you have a stock coyote intake manifold.

[GTBradley]

Those are the spacers Bradley. I’ve run any number of Coyotes with Moroso pans through here and they all are like Paul shows. I just snapped this photo of one that I’m working on currently.

I’m afraid your Canton pan is the red herring and unfortunately the way the Coyote mounts mate to the block there really isn’t an easy way to move the engine farther up.

Jeff

173074
Sorry, Jeff, I missed that part about the Canton being a red herring. Why do you think that, is it the same dimensions as the Moroso?

[GTBradley]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. One more question: does anyone have handy the Moroso oil pan part number?

[edwardb]

Moroso 20570 is the pan. Two different pick-ups depending on Gen 2 or Gen 3.

Maybe a "Mr. Obvious" statement, but raising the engine more than intended, e.g. with the internal spacers in the motor mounts, could mess up header and side pipe alignment. Issues have a way of cascading like that...

[GTBradley]

Thanks, Paul. That is a definite issue with moving the engine and I really don’t want to open that pandora’s box if I don’t have to.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Sorry, Jeff, I missed that part about the Canton being a red herring. Why do you think that, is it the same dimensions as the Moroso?

Because that’s the only thing that’s different from the ones that don’t hang below the frame.


Moroso 20570 is the pan. Two different pick-ups depending on Gen 2 or Gen 3.

Maybe a "Mr. Obvious" statement, but raising the engine more than intended, e.g. with the internal spacers in the motor mounts, could mess up header and side pipe alignment. Issues have a way of cascading like that...

Agreed, as well as causing a change to the pinion angle. That’s why I said there “isn’t an easy way”…

Jeff

[GTBradley]

It’s the pan! Moroso is only 4 ⅜” deep where the Canton is 5” deep. Now I’m wondering why I got stuck with the wrong pan way back when. The Canton also only holds 7 qts as opposed to 9 ½ for the Moroso.

173086

[Al_C]

I have a couple of questions for you, Bradley: first, what's your ride height set at? second, have you hit anything (like a speed bump) yet? OK, I lied, I have a third question - other than aesthetics, is it a big enough issue to put in a new pan?

My bellhousing (Quicktime) hangs below the frame, and below the oil pan. I trimmed it, but it still sits below the frame. My ride height is at 4" all around. Since I trimmed the bell, I haven't hit anything. So in my limited view of the world, I'm OK. I can't keep up with the little jobs, let alone a big job. Changing the oil pan sounds like a big job, so even though you haven't asked, my opinion is don't change your pan unless you absolutely have to. Thanks for allowing me to rant.

[Jeff Kleiner]

It’s the pan! Moroso is only 4 ⅜” deep where the Canton is 5” deep....


Hence my "Red Herring" comment.



Now I’m wondering why I got stuck with the wrong pan way back when.

Curious about you saying "stuck with". Was the pan provided by the engine vendor or did you purchase it elsewhere? If it came with the engine I'd take it up with the vendor.

Jeff

[GTBradley]

I have a couple of questions for you, Bradley: first, what's your ride height set at? second, have you hit anything (like a speed bump) yet? OK, I lied, I have a third question - other than aesthetics, is it a big enough issue to put in a new pan?

My bellhousing (Quicktime) hangs below the frame, and below the oil pan. I trimmed it, but it still sits below the frame. My ride height is at 4" all around. Since I trimmed the bell, I haven't hit anything. So in my limited view of the world, I'm OK. I can't keep up with the little jobs, let alone a big job. Changing the oil pan sounds like a big job, so even though you haven't asked, my opinion is don't change your pan unless you absolutely have to. Thanks for allowing me to rant.
173095
I'm at 4" all around and have actually struck the ground a couple of times. I think both times going over a high point transition like coming from street to parking lot. It looks like one of the hits caused a small deformation on the leading edge of the pan. My biggest problem with the whole thing is psychological, in that I don't like the pan being the lowest point on the car. I have driven 13,000 miles like this, so I shouldn't get too worked up, right?

What does suck about it is that if I do want to replace it the cost is about $600 and I will have paid for two oil pans.


Curious about you saying "stuck with". Was the pan provided by the engine vendor or did you purchase it elsewhere? If it came with the engine I'd take it up with the vendor.

Jeff

It was a Mike Forte package and I didn't think anything of it at the time, accept to wonder why I got a Canton and everyone else got a Moroso. I remember thinking at the time that it must be a private label situation where Canton just put their name on another manufacturers product by license.

[edwardb]

...What does suck about it is that if I do want to replace it the cost is about $600 and I will have paid for two oil pans.

Sadly, it could be more than that. That pan is designed to work with the Moroso 24570 pickup (Gen 2 Coyote). Your existing Canton pickup (which I assume you have) might work. But might not.

[GTBradley]

and gasket…

[edwardb]

and gasket…

The Gen 2 uses a combination BR3Z-6710-A oil pan gasket/windage tray. I didn't list it because it's pretty stout and may not need to be replaced. Mostly plastic with silicone runners around the perimeter and metal inserts at the bolt locations.

[GTBradley]

As per usual, thanks for the in-depth info, Paul. I'll be referring back to this if I ever decide to do the swap. For now I think I'll just cringe and bear it when going over the stuff in my way.

[Jeff Kleiner]

If it’s any consolation you’re a heck of a lot better than this guy that I saw recently…a Godzilla in a Backdraft. Two inches below the frame rails and 2 inches of ground clearance. What could possibly go wrong! :p

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173099&d=1664234921


173099

[rich grsc]

If it’s any consolation you’re a heck of a lot better than this guy that I saw recently…a Godzilla in a Backdraft. Two inches below the frame rails and 2 inches of ground clearance. What could possibly go wrong! :p

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173099&d=1664234921


173099
Maybe soon to be a 'dry sump'?:rolleyes::eek:

[magicmarto]

I would be a little careful with that plate. Its a good idea but I'm guessing the motor moves more than a 1/4" under load, might be rubbing the plate some of time.

6700 miles and no issues with the motor hitting the skid plate!

[Norm B]

Similar problem with a Canton pan on a 331. My own fault, I chose the pan. Made two skid rails out of 1 inch square aluminum bar and attached them to the 4 inch round frame.

Norm

[rich grsc]

Similar problem with a Canton pan on a 331. My own fault, I chose the pan. Made two skid rails out of 1 inch square aluminum bar and attached them to the 4 inch round frame.

Norm
Sorry, I don't see that helping much when you drive over something in the middle of the road? Something clearing the frame cross member still taking the pan with it. :(

[Norm B]

I agree Rich but it really helps with the small mountains they install for speed bumps around here. They have yellow pin striping on them from those things. If you centre punch something at slow speed you're still taking out the pan after the front crossmember slips over it. Doesn't matter if the pan is above the rails or not.

Norm

[GTBradley]

If it’s any consolation you’re a heck of a lot better than this guy that I saw recently…a Godzilla in a Backdraft. Two inches below the frame rails and 2 inches of ground clearance. What could possibly go wrong! :p
173099
:eek:
I hope that car has a big red light for low oil level, otherwise Destroyah is finally going to dethrone Godzilla.
173115

[Jeff Kleiner]

Sorry, I don't see that helping much when you drive over something in the middle of the road? Something clearing the frame cross member still taking the pan with it. :(

True. A few years ago I spun off track and when the car came off the edge of the pavement and onto the dirt it grabbed the drain plug even though the pan and plug are higher that the bottom of the frame rails. Unless you make the bottom of the car a continuous skid plate there’s always a way…it’s Murphy’s Law!

Jeff