Starting up 2015 coyote…almost

[Fbird]

Hi all,

Last weekend I used a garden sprayer to pressurize my oiling system and finally filled it up with oil. I added fuel, checked my connections and bolts and got ready for a test fire. It is a 2015 coyote with Ron Francis wiring in Gen 3 coupe. All gauges sweep initially and all lights radio etc function.

I pushed in the clutch and turned the key and the engine cranked. I did not hear the fuel pump run, so I cranked some more about 15 seconds . No start. I checked my fuel pressure and unhooked the fuel rail and there was no fuel present. So I turned it over a couple of more cycles. The motor then stopped cranking. I disconnected battery and then manually ran the fuel pump by jumping it. It worked right away and pressurized the system and I set fuel pressure to 55 PSI.

With fuel in the line I figured I would give it another try….no crank anymore and still no sound of the pump engaging when turning the key. Something was wrong. I Had fuel pump circuit incorrectly wired at the fuse block . I tied into the tan fuel pump wire instead of orange wire. So after some butchery I wired the green coyote wire to the orange wire and tried again.

This time I heard fuel pump start briefly and it pressurized the line. So now I have fuel. I checked my inertia switch and it is pushed in and I verified my coyote clutch switch was getting pushed in far enough. The Amber coyote system light illuminates bright then stays dim lit when key is turned, but still no cranking. It did crank initially….did I kill a starter? It was a used starter. Did the clutch switch die. Initially it went in with some space to spare and now it goes in all the way. Did something break in that switch?173029

Any ideas? Thank you.173027

[Jeff Kleiner]

Easy check is to jumper around the clutch switch.

Jeff

[Fbird]

Thanks. I just jumped the two connectors at clutch switch together and still have no crank. Hmm. It did turn over initially and nothing has changed except for 1 wire I had wrong for tying the coyote to the fuel pump circuit. I really am confused. Why would it work earlier, but not now?

Here is what I have..going down the Eduard B threads.
12 volt to large lug on starter..yup got power
12 volt large battery cable from starter up to Coyote PDB ..it is there
Blue coyote starter wire from computer to small lug on starter.
Coyote fan wire to positive terminal on cooling fan.
Coyote fuel pump line to Ron Francis orange wire behind fuse block.
Coyote ignition relay trigger (lt green)to Ron Francis orange—verified power when key is in on position constant.
Coyote starter motor request SMR to blue EFI crank wire in Ron Francis harness. Verified with test light lighting up when key in crank position.

Engine grounded by large strap by motor mount to frame and by smaller strap from rear cylinder head to frame by firewall.

Battery fully charged…
.173039

Could this be a computer issue? The engine pcm light lights bright when turning on then immediately goes super dim constant light until key turned off.

[Alan_C]

I have read about this exact issue before on the forum, some have found that they did not have enough fuel in the tank, Something to check although you did say you have fuel pressure when you jumpered the fuel pump.
I have a 2017 Gen 2 Coyote, so I watch these start issue posts with interest.

[edwardb]

...The engine pcm light lights bright when turning on then immediately goes super dim constant light until key turned off.

Sounds like the MIL is working the same as I've experienced. Exactly -- turns bright very briefly when the key is first turned on. Then goes to a dim constant light as long as the key is on. And will stay that way once running. Goes off completely about 10 seconds after the key is turned off and the system shuts down.

Wiring sounds OK and checked. This scenario has happened several times here on the forum. Multiple cases of the control pack ground wire not being adequate. You cite the engine grounds (important of course) but also check the ground wires from the control pack harness. Several thought they had good batteries. But later found they weren't. Two other things to check: Scan the ODB2 port for any trouble codes. Check the starter operation by applying battery voltage directly to the small terminal on the starter.

[Fbird]

Sounds like the MIL is working the same as I've experienced. Exactly -- turns bright very briefly when the key is first turned on. Then goes to a dim constant light as long as the key is on. And will stay that way once running. Goes off completely about 10 seconds after the key is turned off and the system shuts down.

Wiring sounds OK and checked. This scenario has happened several times here on the forum. Multiple cases of the control pack ground wire not being adequate. You cite the engine grounds (important of course) but also check the ground wires from the control pack harness. Several thought they had good batteries. But later found they weren't. Two other things to check: Scan the ODB2 port for any trouble codes. Check the starter operation by applying battery voltage directly to the small terminal on the starter.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. Very much appreciate the sounding board and community.
Ok Here is what I have tried per suggestions.

Fuel is 55 PSI at rail. Tank reads just under half a tank. So I am guessing this is not the issue.It immediately pumps shortly with turn of key.
173064

I used the ground wire from the Coyote PDB and have it firmly grounded in the same spot one of my engine grounds goes to on the firewall frame area. Here it is. When I probe to check it with test light the ground shows good. Is there another way to do this that is better?


173063

I jumpered the clutch neutral switch by taking a wire between the two prongs in the plug. Tried starting..still no crank.

I tested the starter by taking a wire between the small lug on the starter and the large lug. It turns over and the flywheel rotates as it should…so nothing is catching.

There is no power to the small lug when key is cranked from coyote blue wire. It did work before when I cranked for my first attempts last weekend. It only quit after I cranked a bunch in an attempt to pressurize the fuel system with the pump…it was wired wrong and is now good.

Last try for today was to leave clutch switch jumpered and take battery charger to battery while trying to start. This should work to elevate the battery if it was a bad battery. Voltmeter showed 14 volts with charger while cranking. 12 volts or a bit below while cranking without charger hooked up. Still no crank…
I think I need to buy a code reader to see what is up with Coyote. I will need something that I can also clear codes if they are present so I can start fresh. It worked before, but I buggered it up by not priming the fuel system and doing that one wire incorrectly.

Any recommendations on obd2 scanners? Other thoughts? I am so close. It did work. I hope I don’t have a bad PCM or something. I bought it so long ago I am pretty sure I would be screwed.

T.poe

[Al_C]

I know you stated that the blue Ron Francis wire and orange Ron Francis wire are correctly connected to the coyote pigtail. How did you make the wire to wire connection? Weatherpak? spade? soldered? I know this sounds crazy, but I'd check those connections once again. Those two wires are the key. If your connections here are at all dicey, you won't get a crank. I had this problem when I was at your stage. It wasn't the easiest thing to diagnose, but relatively easy to fix.

[michael everson]

What happens when you turn the key on and jump the starter rather than using the coyote to start it? If you can get it to start by jumping the starter then I would check all the fuses and relays in both harnesses.
Mike

[Fbird]

Thanks again. The connections under the dash spot were soldered. I am not great at soldering, but when I take the test light to before and after the connection the light illuminates in both locations so I think they are good. I will definitely inspect more and give a try to turning the key and jump starting it. This won’t damage the computer? I am also ordering a scan tool right after this.

More to follow.

[michael everson]

No issues jump starting it. It’s the same as using the Ron Francis starting wires verses the coyote self start.
Mike

[Alan_C]

Regarding OBDII scanners, my favorite is the BlueDriver. They used to be $100, now up to $120. I have the Capital One app installed on my browser, had a $20 buck off offer right now. I have used the BlueDriver on everything from my MK4, daily drivers, and a 2017 Mustang GT donor I bought for another build. The new ones might work even better.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00652G4TS/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?_encoding=UTF8&aaxitk=e92d8065bf9c7164e446966b47ec21c0&content-id=amzn1.sym.53aae2ac-0129-49a5-9c09-6530a9e11786%3Aamzn1.sym.53aae2ac-0129-49a5-9c09-6530a9e11786&hsa_cr_id=4457448030101&pd_rd_plhdr=t&pd_rd_r=43edcfd0-604c-415d-96a7-e3355104aedb&pd_rd_w=kc39U&pd_rd_wg=5hpvN&qid=1664199799&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_lsi4d_asin_0_title&sr=1-1-a094db1c-5033-42c6-82a2-587d01f975e8

[Fbird]

Thanks for the ideas. I am definitely getting a scanner and probably jump start everything if the scan turns up nothing of consequence. So to jump start I will need to turn the key to the crank position then jump it . When it starts I just back off the key normally? To shut down I would also just turn off the key?

Just checking…Thanks all.
T.poe

[JeffP]

definitly get an odb2 reader - i have this cheap one (https://a.co/d/0K4QX8X) and works with any number of free apps for ios/android. easy to reset MIL codes. It may be in some sort of limp mode.

When I did my first start I had the MAF in backwards (hey, its keyed right? that only works if you put the housing in correctly!) needless to say wouldn't start.. odb2 reader said maf failure - quick diagnostic. I feel like mine stopped cranking after a while too until i cleared the code. But I do have a gen3, so a little different.

[michael everson]

Turn the key to on position not start. you should hear the throttle body cycle. Then just jump battery power to the small lug on the starter until it starts.
Mike

[Fbird]

Hey all. I purchased an OBD2 scanner and plugged it in before trying to jump start the car. It was showing two fault codes. It showed codes P0223 and 00122. Apparently these are related to the throttle body , pedal, and associated wiring. I cleared the codes and tried to start. Still no crank. So I plugged in again and the codes were back. I then cleared them and began checking wires from the throttle body back. My engine was a junkyard 2015 mustang engine with 40,000 miles. I also rechecked any fuses I could easily access and the two wires that tie the Ron Francis to the coyote for fuel and crank. The soldered joints appeared good. At the throttle body I immediately noticed the plug the attachment was loose. It was not locking in. So I fiddled with that for a while and again tried to start. I cycled the key once and heard a new sound ..I think it was the fuel rails priming. Cranked it to start and nothing still. I then turned it off and tried again. It cranked and immediately fired up!! Oil pressure quickly went to 100 psi and I shut it down. I then went under car and checked for leaks and saw all was good. I restarted again and it fired and cranked. One loose connector at the throttle body caused this all.
YES! Yes! Yes!
I am now going to fill it up with coolant before cycling it up to temp to check for fan operation.
Thank you all! I could not have gotten thiS far without all of your help. Great community.Any final advice for filling it up?
Wow it is loud. I thought it would be quieter than my firebird, but it is equally loud. Very happy now.

T.poe

[JeffP]

Congrats on the start! The OBD2 scanners are fantastic, even if they don't tell you the exact issue the get you looking in the right direction.

[Fbird]

Congrats on the start! The OBD2 scanners are fantastic, even if they don't tell you the exact issue the get you looking in the right direction.

Thanks Jeff. Looks like everything is working minus my tach. I ran it up to temp and fan came on as it should. The tach just shakes erratically in aproxímate rpm of engine. Hmmm?It is the auto meter gauges hooked up as recommended in factory five manual. Something else to look into. At least it runs. I will take that victory for today.

[edwardb]

Thanks Jeff. Looks like everything is working minus my tach. I ran it up to temp and fan came on as it should. The tach just shakes erratically in aproxímate rpm of engine. Hmmm?It is the auto meter gauges hooked up as recommended in factory five manual. Something else to look into. At least it runs. I will take that victory for today.

Congrats on the first start. As is often the case, the problem (and solution) in hindsight is simple. But the challenge is finding it. Way to go. For the tach, if you used the instructions in the manual to break into a coil-on-plug harness and attach a wire for the tach, that only works for Speedhut. For Autometer gauges, you need one of their tach adapters. Harder to wire too. Sorry...

[i.e.427]

I may have a used Autometer Tach adapter upstairs in the shop if you're interested. Let me know.

Frank

[Fbird]

Thanks all again for all your help. I would be interested in the tach adapter device mentioned. I would like to have a tach that actually works. Here it is running so you can see me testing the clutch and how the tach operates.This is about 10th start after diagnosing the problem with the loose throttle body connector. I will PM about tach adapter. Do you guys think my alternator is working? It holds at 12 volts when running. I would expect it to go beyond 12 volts once started like my other cars….maybe up to 13/14 volts. I am not doing more than idling so maybe this is ok. Thanks!

Adios! T.poe


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