sread
09-06-2022, 08:54 AM
Hey guys - I finally got around to doing a job I have been dreading for quite a while now...installing the power windows in a gen 1 hot rod. It is just too hot and humid here to enjoy the car in the summertime without a/c so I finally decided to tackle it. I don't think there are many gen 1 cars left to do this on so I don't know if it will be much help but I will put it out there any way.
After reading numerous threads detailing the struggles to come up with a proper working solution that looks clean I spent some time studying the parts and the manual along with what others have tried and came up with my own plan.
Before you start, I would highly recommend getting hold of a spare 12 v battery to set next to the door while you work so you can run the track up and down as needed to check fit and function throughout the process. The pigtails on the motor are a couple feet long and it is a simple matter to just touch the wires to the terminals as needed. Also have your long reach magnet and mechanical fingers handy as you will drop bolts and nuts into the bottom of the door many times while installing and removing the various pieces. A boat load of patience and ample supply of alcohol will also come in handy.
The main problem with the install kit as received is the beltline weatherstrip pieces that FFR provides and the method needed to install them. It was pretty obvious from the start that there has to be a better way. My idea was that with a proper fitting set of beltline strips to guide the window and keep it in position that you are 90 percent of the way there. I don't see any need for any of the other guides, channels, tracks, etc. that people have tried largely because they only guide the glass when it is retracted. They also add friction and get in the way of everything else in side the door. Once the glass is installed in the glass holder, it is secure along the entire bottom edge. With the proper beltline strips at the top of the door, the glass is secure along the entire top edge. When the glass is extended , it is still secured in the glass holder and if the beltline strips fit snug and are located in the proper place the glass is still relatively secure , at least to the extent that it can be when fully extended out of the door without a top door frame.
OK, enough with the theory. I went to the Steele Rubber products website after studying all the various products (they have many!) and picked out 2 different part numbers. 70-3807-61 for the outer strip and 30-0300-135 for the inner. pictured here - the one with the rubber wiper is for the out side and the one with the felt is for the inside of the glass.
I also picked up a couple of aluminum angles from Lowes : 3/4 in. x 1/16 x 36 in. These are what I used to mount the beltline strips to. I chose to bond the beltline strips to the aluminum angle using 3m urethane adhesive - the same stuff used to glue in the windshield, although you can use screws or rivets as long as the head is recessed enough that the glass won't rub on it. This is all direct from the Steele Rubber products web site.
Now , the whole key to making this work right is to make the proper sized cut out in the top of the door in precisely the right location. After taking measurements and making guesstimations for compression I came up with the following dimensions to make the cut out (see illus.) As it turned out these dimensions worked great. Once the strips are bonded to the alum angle and placed down in to the cut out it provides a nice snug fit to hold the glass without creating too much drag for the window motor to overcome.
To determine the location for the cut out, the hardtop has to be mounted in the final position and the weatherstrip installed that the glass will rest against just like it shows in the manual. Draw a line from from front to back right next to the weatherstrip. This is where you need the glass positioned as it extends from the top of the door. Now measure .370 inboard and draw another line. This will be the inboard edge of your cutout. Now draw another line .490 outboard from the first line you drew - (.190 glass thickness + .300 = .490) . This will be the outboard edge of your cut out for a total width of .860. A couple of side notes here - Even though I used the FFR provided weatherstrip for the hardtop to window seal when I made the initial measurements I ended up using some of the left over self adhesive half moon seal instead. The original weatherstrip was just too bulky and was causing the outboard edge of the cutout to be too close to the outside of the door. There wasn't going to be any room left for the aluminum angle at the back of the door where it curves back in towards the body. As it turns out, the half moon seal works even better because it isn't as thick and is very soft and easy to compress giving a little more leeway for the glass to rest against. Again, the hardtop needs to be in the final position both side to side and front to back when you start all this.
What you are shooting for is once the cut out is made you should be able to look down from the top and see the glass holder lined up and parallel with the cut out - either centered in the cut out or positioned a little towards the outboard edge of the door. You have to keep in mind that as the glass extends from the door it will need to tilt inboard a few degrees to lay against the hardtop window seal. You adjust the tilt of the glass mainly by tilting the top of the power track inboard or out. Tilting it out will make the glass tilt in as it comes up. Don't be surprised if it is necessary to shim the glass holder to get it parallel with the cutout. I had to on both doors - easy to do with a washer or two. I even had to bend the window motor bracket on the drivers side to be able to tilt the track out far enough because as most anybody with a gen 1 knows the drivers side door frame has a twist it in it from FFR.
One other tip I can offer is to not use the rubber strip to secure the glass in the holder. I followed the advise of the actual manufacturer of the window kit, Balls Hot Rod Parts, and used the 3m urethane adhesive again. I just squirted a little in the forward, middle ,and aft end of the window holder and set the glass down in place. The reason for this is the glass fits very loose in to the holder. This will allow you to tilt the glass inboard or out as needed to lay against the hardtop seal. With the rubber strip that FFR provides that glass is fixed rigidly in to the holder and may not allow the tilt needed to seal. Once the urethane cures it is held securely.
Another small improvement I made is to the upper and lower stops. Rather than just installing a bolt and nut in the track for the nylon guide to slam into, I used a 2 inch long screw and nut, but placed a piece of rubber hose on both ends to provide a little cushion. Not a big deal but may help the longevity a little and sounds a little more refined when you roll the windows up or down.
I realize I am not the first one to do it like this , but I never really saw anybody post in detail how they went about it. I tried to post the attached photos in the body of the text so it would make more sense but had no luck at all. They all just appear in a group at the bottom, and you are limited to 5 anyways so this is the best I could do.
Anyways, maybe some of this will help some of the guys still struggling with this part of the build. I know more than one has given up in disgust. The fit/function ended up far better than I anticipated. It probably won't help much for the gen 2 builders as FFR has gone to a different system now that appears to work better from the start.
After reading numerous threads detailing the struggles to come up with a proper working solution that looks clean I spent some time studying the parts and the manual along with what others have tried and came up with my own plan.
Before you start, I would highly recommend getting hold of a spare 12 v battery to set next to the door while you work so you can run the track up and down as needed to check fit and function throughout the process. The pigtails on the motor are a couple feet long and it is a simple matter to just touch the wires to the terminals as needed. Also have your long reach magnet and mechanical fingers handy as you will drop bolts and nuts into the bottom of the door many times while installing and removing the various pieces. A boat load of patience and ample supply of alcohol will also come in handy.
The main problem with the install kit as received is the beltline weatherstrip pieces that FFR provides and the method needed to install them. It was pretty obvious from the start that there has to be a better way. My idea was that with a proper fitting set of beltline strips to guide the window and keep it in position that you are 90 percent of the way there. I don't see any need for any of the other guides, channels, tracks, etc. that people have tried largely because they only guide the glass when it is retracted. They also add friction and get in the way of everything else in side the door. Once the glass is installed in the glass holder, it is secure along the entire bottom edge. With the proper beltline strips at the top of the door, the glass is secure along the entire top edge. When the glass is extended , it is still secured in the glass holder and if the beltline strips fit snug and are located in the proper place the glass is still relatively secure , at least to the extent that it can be when fully extended out of the door without a top door frame.
OK, enough with the theory. I went to the Steele Rubber products website after studying all the various products (they have many!) and picked out 2 different part numbers. 70-3807-61 for the outer strip and 30-0300-135 for the inner. pictured here - the one with the rubber wiper is for the out side and the one with the felt is for the inside of the glass.
I also picked up a couple of aluminum angles from Lowes : 3/4 in. x 1/16 x 36 in. These are what I used to mount the beltline strips to. I chose to bond the beltline strips to the aluminum angle using 3m urethane adhesive - the same stuff used to glue in the windshield, although you can use screws or rivets as long as the head is recessed enough that the glass won't rub on it. This is all direct from the Steele Rubber products web site.
Now , the whole key to making this work right is to make the proper sized cut out in the top of the door in precisely the right location. After taking measurements and making guesstimations for compression I came up with the following dimensions to make the cut out (see illus.) As it turned out these dimensions worked great. Once the strips are bonded to the alum angle and placed down in to the cut out it provides a nice snug fit to hold the glass without creating too much drag for the window motor to overcome.
To determine the location for the cut out, the hardtop has to be mounted in the final position and the weatherstrip installed that the glass will rest against just like it shows in the manual. Draw a line from from front to back right next to the weatherstrip. This is where you need the glass positioned as it extends from the top of the door. Now measure .370 inboard and draw another line. This will be the inboard edge of your cutout. Now draw another line .490 outboard from the first line you drew - (.190 glass thickness + .300 = .490) . This will be the outboard edge of your cut out for a total width of .860. A couple of side notes here - Even though I used the FFR provided weatherstrip for the hardtop to window seal when I made the initial measurements I ended up using some of the left over self adhesive half moon seal instead. The original weatherstrip was just too bulky and was causing the outboard edge of the cutout to be too close to the outside of the door. There wasn't going to be any room left for the aluminum angle at the back of the door where it curves back in towards the body. As it turns out, the half moon seal works even better because it isn't as thick and is very soft and easy to compress giving a little more leeway for the glass to rest against. Again, the hardtop needs to be in the final position both side to side and front to back when you start all this.
What you are shooting for is once the cut out is made you should be able to look down from the top and see the glass holder lined up and parallel with the cut out - either centered in the cut out or positioned a little towards the outboard edge of the door. You have to keep in mind that as the glass extends from the door it will need to tilt inboard a few degrees to lay against the hardtop window seal. You adjust the tilt of the glass mainly by tilting the top of the power track inboard or out. Tilting it out will make the glass tilt in as it comes up. Don't be surprised if it is necessary to shim the glass holder to get it parallel with the cutout. I had to on both doors - easy to do with a washer or two. I even had to bend the window motor bracket on the drivers side to be able to tilt the track out far enough because as most anybody with a gen 1 knows the drivers side door frame has a twist it in it from FFR.
One other tip I can offer is to not use the rubber strip to secure the glass in the holder. I followed the advise of the actual manufacturer of the window kit, Balls Hot Rod Parts, and used the 3m urethane adhesive again. I just squirted a little in the forward, middle ,and aft end of the window holder and set the glass down in place. The reason for this is the glass fits very loose in to the holder. This will allow you to tilt the glass inboard or out as needed to lay against the hardtop seal. With the rubber strip that FFR provides that glass is fixed rigidly in to the holder and may not allow the tilt needed to seal. Once the urethane cures it is held securely.
Another small improvement I made is to the upper and lower stops. Rather than just installing a bolt and nut in the track for the nylon guide to slam into, I used a 2 inch long screw and nut, but placed a piece of rubber hose on both ends to provide a little cushion. Not a big deal but may help the longevity a little and sounds a little more refined when you roll the windows up or down.
I realize I am not the first one to do it like this , but I never really saw anybody post in detail how they went about it. I tried to post the attached photos in the body of the text so it would make more sense but had no luck at all. They all just appear in a group at the bottom, and you are limited to 5 anyways so this is the best I could do.
Anyways, maybe some of this will help some of the guys still struggling with this part of the build. I know more than one has given up in disgust. The fit/function ended up far better than I anticipated. It probably won't help much for the gen 2 builders as FFR has gone to a different system now that appears to work better from the start.