Power steering died, HELP

[Rsnake]

At an autocross on Sunday and the KRC power steering started making noise and the steering effort kept increasing until you couldn't steer anymore. Checked fluid at track and all good but day over. Drove home by shear force on the steering wheel and the pump was making more noise even when going straight. Once home I checked fluid and it was low but no leaks. Added fluid and slowly moved steering wheel back and forth with car on jack stands to bleed system and the noise wouldn't go away. Found fluid in boots of rack and figured both pump and rack are done. I don't want to order a new rack from FF as I keep hearing to many bad stories Thinking about the PSC RA33500. They are used in the rock crawling crowd which is brutal on steering.
Anyone use this rack before and how does the 15:1 compare to the FF one as I love the ratio the FF rack has. I did contact KRC and the pump is being sent back to them for evaluation. I do have the KRC cooler by the way.

[klawrence]

Looks like it should work, my FF rack also went bad after a few miles. I first looked at cardone replacement however the reman site apparently mixes the 2.5 and 3 turn racks. I wanted a 3 turn for mostly street driving, kept receiving a 2.5 turn.Ended up going with a 3 turn NAPA rack.

cardone 2.5 (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=30774&cc=1134076&pt=7388&jsn=463)
cardone 3 (https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=30770&cc=1134076&pt=7388&jsn=462)

NAPA 2.5 (https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/PS_361011?impressionRank=3)
NAPA 3 (https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/PS_361008?impressionRank=4)

All the above are from a 1993 mustang. Performance suspension typically says 2.5 turn (5.0) , non performance suspension (4 cycl) are the 3 turn. Very happy with the napa brand reman so far.

Hope this helps.

[GT_Rich]

Hey, I mentioned this as a comment on your YouTube video a few months back. I've had the same failure before with fluid in the boots. Mine got hot enough to melt the nylon rack limiters that are commonly used. You're over spinning the pump. Keep the pump below 6k rpm. The farther below it the better. So, with a Coyote spinning higher than that, the pump pulley needs to be bigger than the crank pulley! Also, a big stacked plate cooler helps a bunch. I have a Derale unit with 3/8" barb fittings plumbed into my return line and directly in front of the radiator.

[Chopper]

You could check out Uni-Steer as well, they have Fox racks in various ratios. Pricey, but good quality.

[Kbl7td]

These reman units look cheaper than the factory five option. Does ordering a 65 with PS get you welded in brackets etc? Diff steering shafts?

[Rsnake]

Thanks for the help everyone. I did speak with KRC and the pump is slowed down enough to not cause an issue with the rack according to them. The sheave sizes are different with the engine drivin one being smaller than the pump sheave.
I am going to spend the money and get the PSC as the quality is worth the money and this does not look easy to remove and I only want to do it once. Thanks to all for the help.

[Skuzzy]

Is the PS rack a Fox rack? From what years? I may just go ahead and replace mine before I put it in. Does it match the Gen3 geometry, or is there other modifications needed?

[klawrence]

I went with a fox rack after the FF rack leaked after a few miles, you will need to install the extenders. Works fine.

Fox racks are much more readily available, why reinvent the wheel.

[David Williamson]

The 87 -93 Fox rack works but you have to put "extenders" on each side of the inner tie rod. They add about 3/4 inch to each side. I got mine from FFR a few years ago when I built my Coupe.
David W

[Indy Shu]

Rsnake,
Have you by chance changed the flow valve in the pump as many have done to give less assist? Maybe that decreased pressure also helps prevent damage to the rack.

[Skuzzy]

Rsnake,
Have you by chance changed the flow valve in the pump as many have done to give less assist? Maybe that decreased pressure also helps prevent damage to the rack.

Given the description of the failures, I thought the same thing.

[Rsnake]

I did put the smallest valve from Krc into the pump. Krc has the pump now and I am just waiting to hear what they found.

[GT_Rich]

The flow valve won't change the pressure being generated, or the associated heat. Pulley size or internal pump mods are necessary to do that.

[Rsnake]

I pulled the old rack out and it was a difficult job for sure. Tight fit. When I pulled off the boot a lot of fluid came out and it looks like the seal was blown out. The new PSC rack did arrive and it looks really nice but I will need the rack extenders which I don't have. Does anyone have a pair they want to sell? I am going to email FF tomorrow and see if the rack is under warranty as well since it only has 3000 miles on it and it was a complete power steering system from them.

[Blueblood]

From this posting I seem to be hearing the FFR power rack is prone to failure, have a lot of builders had this issue? I’m going for paint soon and will hopefully be driving mine this fall but now I’m worried about the power rack. Don’t want to change the subject too much but as it is being talked about was curious. Thanks

[racingandfishing]

I pulled the old rack out and it was a difficult job for sure. Tight fit. When I pulled off the boot a lot of fluid came out and it looks like the seal was blown out. The new PSC rack did arrive and it looks really nice but I will need the rack extenders which I don't have. Does anyone have a pair they want to sell? I am going to email FF tomorrow and see if the rack is under warranty as well since it only has 3000 miles on it and it was a complete power steering system from them.

I saw a post in an old thread mentioning these. I will probably order them as I intend to use an aftermarket rack as well. Interested to hear how you like the new rack once it is installed.

https://breezeautomotive.com/shop/rack-extender-set-1-for-87-93-mustang-power-rack/

[Skuzzy]

Given the number of failures I have read about, I am not going to chance it and will get a Unisteer replacement for my build. Caught it at a good time.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I’ve built 7 or 8 cars with power steering using OEM Ford pumps and racks. The failure rate is zero. I have a Coyote Coupe in the works currently with a KRC pump and FFR supplied rack—-fingers crossed.

Jeff

[rhk118]

Hey may not see it here but have a friend building a Cobra and his FFR power rack leaked requiring replacement exactly after he got everything put together up front and engine in.

[Rsnake]

I reached out to Ffr today to see if they will warranty the rack, no response.
KRC did inform me the pump needed new seals and a new check valve. Not under warranty as they only cover the pump for 180 days. Should ship out today after a Dyno run to verify its working. He couldn't tell me what went wrong but of course blamed the steering rack.

[Chopper]

Out of curiosity what kind of power steering hose are you running?

I know that KRC's tech pages recommend Aeroquip AQP high pressure hose, the -6 AN size is rated at 2250psi running steel fittings...which is pretty extreme. The only thing I have seen from Aeroquip that was higher is the Teflon racing hose, which runs a little higher at 2500psi on the same fittings. I'm not saying this is the problem, but KRC's tech does say their pumps can suck a hose closed...worth thinking about anyway. However, I would think this would be more likely running at an sustained high RPM.

[Papa t]

Rnake, what part number did you order for the power steering rack?

[Cincy123]

My FFR rack failed after one loop around the parking lot (also have the KRC pump with the smallest flow control valve installed). I’m still in the middle of the build process, however FF did send me a replacement rack in short order. If this rack fails I will go with the PSC rack.

[Alan_C]

Another option is the Russell Powerflex hose and fittings. Rated to 2500 PSI as I remember. Good stuff IMO as I have used it in two builds so far. I like and use the product while saving a little over the Aeroquip hose and fittings.

http://www.russellperformance.com/mc/hose/powerflex.shtml

[Rook]

My FFR rack blew its seals within the first minute of running the engine at idle, a Gen 3 Coyote. This was last month. They said they won’t replace it under warranty because I’m using the PS pump from Forte rather than their own. Forte says he’s been selling his pump for ten years without issue, a Saginaw style.

Seeing the reliability reports of others here, it looks like the rack may indeed be the culprit.

Has anyone else used the Forte Coyote PS pump with the FFR rack successfully?

[Skuzzy]

Well, there seems to be enough empirical evidence the rack is, at least, questionable. Enough so I am going ahead with replacing it with a Unisteer 8010430. This is the quick ratio version.

I am pairing it with an electric power steering pump, which should be low enough pressure to help alleviate any seal blow outs.

[Alan_C]

I would suggest that users of the FFR rack that have suffered premature failures gather their histories together and approach Dave about the problem. I would suggest that often the guys dealing with parts issues do not have the authority to authorize replacements. Dave may or may not be aware that the racks they are selling have a suspicious history.
As mentioned by Jeff, I used a Ford rack and Ford pump without issue. When donor builds were far more popular, many builders used the racks from their donors as cores to get fully remanufactured racks cheaply.
If nothing else, reporting directly to Dave the problematic history with owners info and pumps used could result in the problem being looked at further. It could be a problem with mismatched parts, i.e. pumps with excessive fluid pressure. However such a situation would be pretty obvious as the steering effort would be too light. If nothing else, compiling a chart (spreadsheet) with rack and pump parings that have had problems and those that did not could shed light on the pattern of failure and a warning to future builders. After all, isn't that what this forum is about, sharing knowledge that may prevent others from suffering from the same results.

[Rsnake]

Looks like I opened the Pandora's box of power steering. Someone asked about the hoses I am using and they are the ones FF provided with the power steering kit as I did purchase the kit from them. I am still waiting for a decision from FF on the rack, they did respond and are really backed up. I feel for them as it seems like the entire business world is short staffed. I am trying to figure out where all the workers went, did Aliens abduct millions of workers?

[Rook]

Good idea, Alan_C. I've done just that!

Anyone who has experienced a failure of the FFR power steering rack, please feel free to visit this Google Sheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DOJmTG9GkPDtJbCy3X3NgASYubGaCa9SigYus1a6SYM/edit?usp=sharing) and add your info. Or if you prefer, you can leave the details of your experience here and I'll add them to the sheet myself.

I'm looking for the following info:
-Name
-Forum Name
-Date of Receipt of Rack
-Power Steering Pump
-Engine
-Notes on Failure

Feel free to omit any info you don't want to share.

Google Sheet here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DOJmTG9GkPDtJbCy3X3NgASYubGaCa9SigYus1a6SYM/edit?usp=sharing).

I'll get this sheet into the hands of FFR once I get enough responses, with the goal of helping them to sort out the issues for the benefit of the community. Thanks!

[joyridin']

Looks like I opened the Pandora's box of power steering. Someone asked about the hoses I am using and they are the ones FF provided with the power steering kit as I did purchase the kit from them. I am still waiting for a decision from FF on the rack, they did respond and are really backed up. I feel for them as it seems like the entire business world is short staffed. I am trying to figure out where all the workers went, did Aliens abduct millions of workers?

Just to be clear, you did or did not use the PSC rack? I am curious as I was going to order one.

For the Unisteer people, they make a good product until you have a problem and try to get it corrected. There are literally hundreds of posts on various Mustang sites complaining about their CS.

[Rsnake]

I did install the PSC rack and loving it. Much better resistance and feel and the on center feel is much improved.
Used it a month ago at an autocross in which the temps were in the mid to upper 80's and no issues whereas the older unit would have been fading away.
Highly recommended.

[rhk118]

Great to hear that was an upgrade in driving experience having to go through that rack change Greg. Loving the now hood paint job as well.

[joyridin']

I did install the PSC rack and loving it. Much better resistance and feel and the on center feel is much improved.
Used it a month ago at an autocross in which the temps were in the mid to upper 80's and no issues whereas the older unit would have been fading away.
Highly recommended.

Great! Thanks for the feedback! I was looking at another brand that was a few bucks cheaper, but I will go with PSC now.

[Rsnake]

Thank you for the compliment on the hood paint job. I think I am going with the motif. I have new wheels being made now which are really gt40ish and will paint the centers orange with white exhaust.
The PSC rack is the way to go and with all the issues people are having with the FF unit I wish I had done it instead of the FF unit.