Mladen's MK4 Build Thread [Archive]

mladen

08-26-2022, 12:49 PM

Starting a bleated build thread for my MK4 Roadster. Will try to catch up to the current step, and add notes and photos as I remember and find them.

Build:

MK4 Complete Kit - Order date 03/04/2021 - Delivery Date 07/22/2022:
- Powder coated chassy
- FFR Power Steering
- Hydraulic clutch
- Vintage low-back seats
- FFR vintage metric gauges
- 15" Halibrand wheels with Cooper Cobra tires (235/60 R15, 295/50 R15)
- Sun visors and wind wings
- Chrome driver roll bar (passenger life deemed not worth the purchase of a second roll bar. J/k, going with just the one for the looks)
- Battery cut-off switch
- Side louvers and brake duct wire mesh
- 2018 IRS

Additions/changes to the FFR kit:
- Blueprint 427w EFI, Stage 1, Alternator + PS, with TKX manual with 'long' 5th gear (Ordered 05/11/2021, expected delivery 08/29/2022)
- Mike Forte's throttle linkage
- Gordon Levy's Wilwood Brake kit for 15" wheels
- Gasn polished headers
- Russ Thomspon turn signal, drop trunk, gas pedal
- FFmetal firewall forward kit
- FFR heater/defroster
- Mike Everson radiator aluminum, firewall support, rear quickjack plates, underdash filler panel, steering and windshield trim plates
- FFR quickjack bumpers
- Darkwater Customs door sill trim, behind seat storage cubby
- Cobraheat seat heaters

Still considering:
- Herb's door panels
- Glovebox
- Alex's wheel well liners (if available)
- Footwell air vents
- Cup holder
- In-tank fuel pump
- Breeze automotive radiator and related accessories
- Battery relocation kit
- LED lights
- Boig radiator tubes
- FFR oil cooler

DIBaledo

08-26-2022, 04:13 PM

mladen

08-26-2022, 04:40 PM

mladen,
Great work on the inventory tracking spreadsheet. My kit is scheduled for delivery in early November and this is a great way to review what’s in store for me. I know there has been a lot of discussion about why this is not directly available from FFF though I guess it’s really different for each build. How did you get it in excel? Were you able to import it directly from what FFR sent you or did you have to separately type in each entry?

David…

It was a pretty manual process. I scanned the shipping list and then did OCR on every page, then manually transferred it to sheets. OCR is not perfect either so I had to do a lot of manual editing and formatting. It's been really helpful so far, making it easy for me to search through by part name or number when I need to find something. The sheet should be mostly usable by others since it seems like FFR follows a pattern with what box contains which parts. What throws it off a little bit is items that are on backorder and arrive separately. I've been throwing those into an "other" box, but you could potentially add them to boxes where they belong. If I had done that I probably wouldn't have spent 3 hours looking for the 4 nuts that hold the brake and clutch switches :D

mladen

08-26-2022, 05:37 PM

Here's a long post with some past updates.

07/22/2021 - The big day. Kit delivery

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It was a bit hectic delivery. I'm fairly certain I checked that box that I foresee issues with delivery by using a giant 18-wheeler. The driver was surprised too. He couldn't even enter my driveway. We ended up loading parts onto his dolly and then slowly towing them up to the house with my UTV :D After it was all done, he thought he would have to reverse out of our neighbourhood, half a mile to the main road. Luckily it didn't rain those days so within a short 10 minutes he managed to turn around on the empty lot across us. It was also the day I had all new cabinets for the garage delivered, so it's a mess (not that its much better now)

Does everyone sit in the car as the first thing when you get it, or is that just me? :)

mladen

08-26-2022, 05:43 PM

08/15/2021 - First boxes from the POL started coming in.

The list has almost 100 items on it. A lot of stuff on backorder and missing. Including the build manual :eek:

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I got the wrong seats. FFR promptly shipped out the right ones and a shipping label for the return.

The second order of business, sending the steering boss to Russ for the turn signal modification.

mladen

08-26-2022, 05:50 PM

09/01/2021 - Got the turn signal mod back from Russ

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09/21/2021 - More POL parts coming in, including the manual

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10/17/2021 - Correct set of seats has arrived

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Still not making any progress on the car really. Missing a lot of the pieces needed for the initial steps, and don't feel confident yet about doing this out of turn. Also, we moved into the house about a month before the kit arrived, so I spent about a year renovating things from the basement to the roof, which took a lot of time.

mladen

08-26-2022, 06:01 PM

12/11/2021 - Winter is off to a very warm start. Spent the day building the body buck so I can occupy only one bay in the garage

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Part of the renovation in the house included new drywall, I took the opportunity to replace/upgrade the insulation. That left me we a lot of old insulation, that I thought would be a great idea to throw in the attic space above the garage, which is uninsulated. Turns out it's pretty tiring to walk on joists, and also crouch to reach all the corners as the roof slopes down. Long story short, if anyone is interested to know, the circumference of my *** is just shy of the circumference of this hole in the ceiling. I manage to hold myself up and not fall completely through. Stay safe everyone.

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mladen

08-26-2022, 06:06 PM

01/22/2022 - Actual work on the car begins

Removed all the aluminum panels. Started installing the front lower control arms, and hit my first snag. No matter how much I tried to persuade it, the second bolt just couldn't align. After reaching out to FFR, Dan suggested I try doing it in reverse. So After setting the right bolt first, the left one aligned much easier. Still a bit mindblown about how that works, but it worked, so I'm happy :)

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mladen

08-26-2022, 06:22 PM

01/30/2022

Received the Gasn headers. It was quite the wait, but they are absolutely gorgeous. The problem? I received 302s instead of 351s. It will be a bit more to get the right ones but Georgies is on it!

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Managed to put together the front wheel assemblies without issues (or so I thought, update later), including the brakes from Gordon. Started prepping the pieces for the rear wheels.

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mladen

08-26-2022, 06:36 PM

01/31/2022 - The day of the first costly mistakes

I made an assumption based on missing information about assembling the rear rotors. I torqued the bolts to 25 ft-lbs and stripped one. Called Wilwood support, and learned that, yeah, 25 is way too much. Should be 15. Downside? On the rear rotors, the threads are in the rotor itself. Implication? Buying a new rotor and bolts. Cost? $130. Kinda glad that the bolt stripped the threads, had it not I might have assumed that everything is fine, and risked a pretty catastrophic failure down the road (no pun intended).

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The other issue? Replacing the wheel studs on the rear wheel hubs. Knocking the original ones out was easy. Putting in the new ones, not so much. I used washers, which mostly got bent. This resulted in the 5 studs not being perfectly aligned and the brake rotor would not go on, even with moderate persuasion. Getting them inserted using nuts required more force than what the manual suggests the torque should be. All of this led me to doubt the bolts because of the stress I put on them. So again I decided to pay for my mistake and for peace of mind. Bought a new hub and bolts for about $185. I also invested in the Lisle 22800 Wheel Stud Installer (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ETUD22/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) which made the process much easier the second time. I thoroughly suggest it.

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mladen

08-26-2022, 08:50 PM

02/03/2022 - IRS Center Section

I stressed a lot about drilling out the front holes in the center section as I read quite a few stories online about difficulties with it. Or that I might slightly be changing the direction of it and create alignment issues when mounting. One of the suggestions I ran into was to use a reamer bit like this one (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FXJGTO4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1). I haven't even tried a regular drill bit, but the reamer made it feel trivially easy.

I used the floor jack to prop it up, and a couple of spare sets of arms that belonged to my neighbors, and we quickly got it into place. The first 3 holes (fronts and driver side one in the back) aligned easily, but it made it impossible to align the last one. We struggled for about an hour. Tried using a pry bar to gently coax the center section into place, we also tried ratchet straps. Eventually, what I did was pull the metal sleeve toward the back out of the rubber bushing. What this allowed me to do is to have more free movement of the tip of the bolt by moving the head side to side or up and down. I was able to angle it slightly, but enough where it aligned with the hole in the center section. Now, the stress here was that you have to do this blind, that is, you do not know exactly how it aligned, and because this part is not perfectly aligned and the bolt is not angled a bit, you do feel more resistance when threading it in than you do with the others that align perfectly. This made me consider if it was crossthreading or not, which would damage the mounting point. I held my breath and decided to go slowly. Luckily the pressure didn't change and eventually the bolt thread fine.

I also set up some of the control arms for the rear suspension at this point. One thing I noticed here is that some of the bolts I received had a standard vs flanged head. I reached out to FFR and they quickly sent me the correct one.

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mladen

08-26-2022, 09:04 PM

02/03/2022 - Non build-related item

Decided to adopt this little cutie and share a life together. Her name is Babygirl and she's a Lab mix. About 12 weeks old.

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mladen

08-26-2022, 09:19 PM

08/21/2022 - Back to work - More brakes

A lot of time has passed since I last worked on the car. I was missing some small items that I needed in order to proceed per the order in the manual. I also had a ton of renovation to finish in the house, painting, new interior doors, new floors, but finally ready to proceed. At this point, barring any discoveries down the road, I think I have everything from the FFR kit!

I started by completing work on the brakes. For the rears, I need to tap the mounting holes on the callipers. They're aluminum, and it was my first time doing this. I actually used the aluminum pieces that we trim from the rear spindles and tapped some threads into them as practice. The work on the calipers went without a hitch and I have some nice threads cut. Pretty happy with the Gearwrench tap and die set I bought, the tools worked well and the threads feel very tight (not sloppy) when screwing in the bolt.

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I also wrapped up the fronts by tying all the bolts with safety wire. I decided to do it with them mounted, thought I'd save myself the hassle of taking them off and putting them back on again... How little did I know. :)

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An embarrassing point. So much time has passed that I lost track of the e-brake. Gordon Levy said he wass sending it in a separate package. Now I don't know if I haven't gotten it yet, or I did and I don't know where I placed it at this point :( I'm not even sure what exactly I'm supposed to be looking for (what the contents of the e-brake package are). Reaching out to Gordon to see if he can help me.

mladen

08-26-2022, 09:45 PM

08/23/2022 - Pedal Box

Worked on the peddle box today. I didn't read the entire section before proceeding, so I didn't pay attention to the balance bar adjustment, specifically the spacing. This cost me a bit of time later. The first thing I did was install all the aluminum panels for the DS footbox, then mark and drill all the holes. After checking all alignments I proceeded to install the front panel first.

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I'm using clamps here to hold it in place as I siliconed it to the frame. Only the bottom left portion will be riveted to the frame, the rest hold onto the other panels. After doing this I realized that predrilling the holes might not have been the best idea as I didn't consider that I will be glueing this panel first. It's possible that the drilled holes will not align when I get to them.

Another observation is that the side panels on the DS footbox came from FFR with extension mods already made, so I didn't do anything extra to modify them. I'm not sure if it's possible to squeeze out even more space by further mods, but I decided to not try that at this point.

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I set up the pedal box as instructed. Added both the clutch and brake switches, assembled all three master cylinders, mounted the pedal box on the frame, installed the master cylinders. Then I realized that adjusting the distance between the two brake mounts requires not having at least one of the master cylinders connected, so I had to remove it. The distance needs to be between 0.20" and 0.25", so you might as well do this even before you install the pedal box in the car. The adjustment between the front and the rear you definitely want to do once everything is in place though.

I decided last minute to go with the Russ Thompson throttle pedal, so waiting on that part to arrive to install.

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Also today, my Cooper Cobra tires have arrived. Purchased on Amazon. The fronts have a 5/22 manufacture date, but the rears are 5/21. Not great but not bad. I guess they probably won't last that long as the first pair anyway :)

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mladen

08-26-2022, 10:37 PM

08/25/2022 - Power steering rack and steering column

Moved to installing the steering. While prepping the rack I notice that it came with bushings installed already. Trying it out I quickly realized these will not work for the FFR frame, so I removed them and started looking through the parts. Sure enough, there are two bolts, washers, nuts, metal sleeves, and 4 rubber bushings (halves) that work instead. Getting the rack installed took quite a bit of angling to get it into a position where it would sit into the mounting points. The manual suggests mounting the driver side bolt first and then dropping the passenger side into place. This nominally worked, but when I install the driver side bolt it leaves the passenger side rotated upward where I could not get the holes in the mounts to align. I removed the bolt on the driver's side and replaced it with a screwdriver. This kept that side in place but still allowed a lot of wiggle room. I could now twist the passenger end enough to put the bolt through, and after that, the driver-side bolt still aligned well. I swear this is some geometry black magic happening :D

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Onto the tie rods. The manual suggests that you thread them on by an inch or two, then check the center to center distance, which should be 53 and 1/16". Once I did that I realized that the rack will be way too wide and it probably would fit only if both wheels were turned to full lock towards outside of the car. I reached out to FFR and Dan G. suggested to center the wheels as best as I can, and then keep threading the rods until I can match that. In my case, that meant threading the tie rod ends until I had about 1.95" of thread left on each side. And that's when the fun stopped...

Trying to marry the tie rod ends to the steering rods, I realized that the bolt won't fit from the bottom as instructed. But, it will from the top. Then, cold sweat started breaking out of me, as the realization hit me that the steering rods are not identical, and the hole is tapered, and wider on one side. I look over the steering rods to see if there are any markings as I didn't remember any, and sure enough, none. I look back at the manual, and the only thing it mentions, along with a low-def black and white photo, is that you should install it so the tie rod ends mount from the bottom. Sure, I thought to myself, why not, I'll pay attention to that when I get to the tie rods which I didn't even have yet at the time. The only thing the photo told me was that the steering rods should be angled outward when installed. When you have a 50/50 chance to install them right, of course, you will not install them in the correct way. So I spent some time in a state of grief, on the verge of crying, as my mind failed to accept the fact that I will have to take the front wheels completely apart. Quickly looking at the bolts, it was clear that I can't just remove the nuts, the bolts were too long and hit against the hub. So my next desperate attempt to minimize the undoing I have to do was to try removing the castle nut, maybe that will give me enough room to remove the steering rod. Nope. Just got me extra work as I have to go to the store to buy more cotter pins. Eventually, I caved in, removed the brake calipers, brake rotors, axle nut, wheel hubs... I was able to remove both steering rods. At this point, it was getting late, and my mood was not the best, but I wanted to reassemble everything. Well, life has a way to kick you when you're down, to really drive the point home and make sure you don't forget the lesson. So, what happened you ask? Well, I reassembled everything, proceeded to check if the tie rod ends align now, and realized that I installed one of the steering rods in the opposite direction, angled towards the center of the car, not out........... Back to taking everything apart I went. I wrote a rant thread about this in the main forum. I got three things out of it: I vented, I decided to start this doc (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1KAHUb0AN0qNPjAxrq4W6Ijv5oS3Fbq4ggHJDkYkC8/edit#), collecting the things "unwritten" in the manual (hoping that others will start contributing to it too), and lastly, Gilmore pointed out that the axle nuts are 'single use' and that I should replace them, and let's be honest, after all this mine have seen a lot of action. So I ordered new ones.

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Moving on to the steering column. Fairly straightforward, but I did have to do a couple of things that others have documented in various build threads. First, when I put everything together, I ended up with about 0.5" of the lower steering shaft protruding into the u-joint. I found 3 answers to this issue around. The most common, which I ended up doing, is mounting the bearing inside of the footbox. Pretty easy, though you might need to grind off a little bit of the bearing mounting bracket or the pedal box mounting bracket, which I did. The second option suggested to another member by Dan G was to split the difference between the two u-joints and have it protrude a little bit on both sides. The third, and most extreme, is to shorten the lower steering shaft.

Another issue I had was with the upper steering shaft would not go through the upper bushing in the pillow block. You're not supposed to use a lot of force to drive it in, so I used 600 grit sandpaper and gently sanded it down until it could go through with mild pressure by hand.

Finally, the manual only suggests to drill and indent for the set screw on the 1" DD shaft. I ended up making them in each place where there was one in the u-joints. Three in total if I remember correctly.

EDIT: I rewatched the FFR build video for the steering system and one thing caught my eye, in the video, they call out that you should orient the pillow block so that the set screws are pointed into the firewall. The manual does the opposite and tells you to point it toward the rear of the car. I followed the manual when I installed. Not sure if this has any implication, just wanted to call it out for noobs like me who depend on the written instructions a lot :)

mladen

08-27-2022, 05:43 PM

Quick update, got the tires mounted on the wheels. They look really nice, can't wait to see them on the car!

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I went to do a final check on the steering system and I noticed that the upper u-joint is slightly rubbing on the flange bearing. You can see the little groove that's left on the u-joint where they rubbed against each other. I can definitely feel a slight grinding as I turn the steering shaft.

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Does anyone have recommendations for a solution here? What comes to mind as options are:

1. Don't do anything, eventually, the friction will reduce, but some will still be left over. Not sure if this can have downstream effects. Simplest, but definitely not ideal.
2. I change the position of the lower steering shaft, moving it slightly into both u-joints. This will move the upper u-joint downward, clearing the bearing. But, it will also require moving the upper shaft down with it, which will slightly move the eventual final position of the steering wheel closer to the dashboard. Not sure if this will have any implications.
3. Using a bracket to move the flange bearing even further into the footbox. My kit did come with 3 of these brackets that came with the steering hardware, that look like they fit the description. I haven't run into an explanation in the manual of what they are supposed to be for yet.
Edit: 4. I file off a little bit of the bushing bracket where there is contact. The bushing is angled away from the lower part of the bracket so it will not impact the operation.

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edwardb

08-27-2022, 11:23 PM

#2 is the right answer IMO. Move the joint down a bit by adjusting the u-joints so it clears the bearing shell. Don't quite understand how that changes your steering wheel location. That's determined by the upper steering shaft location. Which is movable inside the lower shaft.

mladen

08-27-2022, 11:35 PM

edwardb

08-28-2022, 06:10 AM

Thanks edwardb. Maybe I'm not thinking through that point. At the moment, the upper u-joint has the middle shaft (1" DD, hollow one) set flush in the joint. And the upper steering shaft is inserted just until the washer disappears. That means that if the upper joint moves down, both the 1" DD and upper shaft will move with it, to preserve the 1"DD still being flush. Though I doubt this would be more than 1/4".

Maybe I'm not explaining well. Or missing something in your explanation. The upper steering shaft (the one the steering wheel attaches to) is supposed to slide in the hollow lower shaft. It's that way in order to be collapsible. Not that we ever want to find out how that works... So the location of the hollow lower shaft doesn't dictate the location of your steering wheel. You can set it where you want, within a certain range. The 1/4" or whatever you need to move the lower shaft shouldn't be an issue. If the upper steering shaft is tight in the lower hollow shaft to where it won't reasonably move (some builders have that issue) you need to address that. Could be as easy as light sanding with emery cloth, removing rust if there is any, removing any burrs, etc. Discussed in a number of posts.

mladen

08-28-2022, 09:56 AM

It's possible that there are further adjustments down the road that I'm not thinking about. But here's how I saw that. The hollow DD shaft is "locked" into position with the u-joint by being flush with it. The steering column (to which the wheel attaches) is similarly locked into position with the hollow DD shaft by the fact that the manual says to drive it in only until the spacer disappears. So my thinking is that if I make any modifications around the lower shaft which result in the upper u-joint moving down, it will have to move the DD shaft and the upper shaft with them, unless I other let the DD slide out a bit, or retract the upper shaft more. I'm assuming that I will leave those two as is, so the whole thing would move down. But as you said, 1/4" won't make a difference really.

edwardb

08-28-2022, 03:04 PM

...The steering column (to which the wheel attaches) is similarly locked into position with the hollow DD shaft by the fact that the manual says to drive it in only until the spacer disappears...

The steering column is meant to slide as I described previously. "Drive" is a relative term. But if you had to hit it so hard it doesn't move and is locked, you've defeated its purpose and made this situation harder than it needs to be. I'll stop the back and forth. Have explained it as best as I can. Good luck.

JB in NOVA

08-28-2022, 09:20 PM

mladen

08-29-2022, 01:11 PM

Mladen, just caught up with your build. Looks like you're moving along! There are several of us in Northern Virginia who have recently completed builds or are still in the process, so feel free to reach out to any of us if you have questions or want to borrow any tools or equipment. For instance, I have an engine hoist gathering dust in my garage, which you are free to borrow when the time comes. Good luck, and I hope to see you at cars & coffee when you're done.

Thanks JB! Wish I looked at your build thread earlier. Seems we got caught with the same issue on the steering rods :) I'm definitely looking forward to meeting owners/builders in the area soon, and I appreciate the offer on tool loans. I do have an engine hoist, but I see you have some wipers for the inspection day that I wouldn't mind borrowing if they're available ;)

mladen

08-29-2022, 07:31 PM

Ok, very big day today! Probably felt just a little less excitement than when my kit was arriving. The engine came, nicely packaged and wrapped up. I can't help but think that Blueprint put the nylon intentionally in a way that you can unwrap it to see it, and then easily wrap it back up to wait for installation day :)

Can't wait to get this dropped in and fired up! Hopefully in 2-3 weeks.

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JB in NOVA

08-29-2022, 09:09 PM

Make sure you insulate those ignition wires! (Ask me how I know). Here are some that are simple and inexpensive: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092RWJ72X?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_asin_title

mladen

08-30-2022, 12:37 PM

I don't have the in-tank fuel pump yet, but I prepped the fuel tank as much as possible and going to mount it up. I hit a common issue, the straps are too short, get longer bolts. Something still seemed off to me. The manual says that the longer tank strap is for passenger side, when I do, the strap is so long that I easily connect the two mounting holes. The shorter one on the driver side gets nowhere near it.

Looking more closely at the photos in the manual, and mounts on my car, I see that they are reversed. The manual has the mounting bracket high on the 3/4 tube on the passenger side, and all the way at the bottom on the driver side. On my car this is reversed as you can see in the photos. This tells me that perhaps the longer strap should be on the driver side, and not the passenger, as the manual suggests. When I do this, the driver side does reach close enough for the bolt to be connected. The passenger is still too short. The strap (shorter one) is not the right shape to contour around the tank, which I did my best to correct. I also straightened the tab as mentioned in the build videos. It still leaves me a few inches short, so off to the hardware store I go to get a longer bolt. Just thought I'd mention here in case the mounting brackets are reversed for anyone else.

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First photo is when using the longer strap on passenger side. Second photo is showing both brackets. Note: (tank edge has been straightened after taking these pics)

Chopper

08-30-2022, 12:42 PM

I believe your observation is correct. The bolt holes should be on the driver and passenger side on the inboard (axle side) of the tank hangers. Looks like they got swapped by accident.

edwardb

08-30-2022, 03:27 PM

I'm assuming you "adjusted" the frame members after the pictures were taken to extend the plastic end pieces all the way down to the tank edge? They bend very easily and not unusual to require a slight bit of adjustment. After you bent the flange on the tank as described in the manual and you mention. Maybe won't help the bolt length situation. Do what you have to do there. But required to make sure the tank is mounted solidly. Strange your mounting tabs are reversed like that. Haven't ever seen that before.

mladen

08-30-2022, 04:50 PM

Yeah, the driver side one was ok. The passenger, as seen in the photo, starts pushing against the tank when it's raised to make contact so had to bend that one member forward a bit to create more space. Still needed a much longer bolt. The original is 2" and I have a 4 1/2" now

mladen

08-31-2022, 01:59 PM

Since I'm waiting for the fuel pump to arrive before I proceed, I wanted to double-check the alignment on the upper control arms, as I've seen folks needing to cut the adjusters to meet the stated measurements listed here.

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I converted these to metric as it's easier to compare the callipers against it since the divisions aren't fractional. Let's call these A: 6.875 = 174.6, B: 8.23 = 209, and C: 7.375 = 187.3

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The above photos are from the passenger side. I can get the A, and B aligned. C measurement I can't get too on the rear side. Set at the shortest position, it is still 2mm too long. Question 1: Can I leave this as is, or should I take this apart to shorten the adjuster so I can get it to spec?

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This is the driver's side. One thing that comes to mind here is, that the clevis bolt is in the rear, not in the front. I can't flip the control arm because then the upper ball joints wouldn't be angled correctly. Question 2: Did I receive two passenger side control arms or is this expected?
All the measurements on the driver side are actually in spec, so if the answer to the previous question is that it's fine, I think I'm good on this side. Though given the clevis bolt is in the back, I can only confirm measurements B and C, and not measurement A, which is expecting bolt-to-bolt measurement in the front.

Jeff Kleiner

08-31-2022, 02:06 PM

The arms are not side specific; driver’s side has the welded end to the front and passenger side has it to the rear. Measure from the cross shaft pivot to the ball joint grease fitting on both sides.

Jeff

mladen

08-31-2022, 02:19 PM

Thanks Jeff. That's what I did and looks like driver's side is in spec. Do you think I can leave the passenger side with the rear being 2mm too long, or should I cut the adjusting bar to bring it to spec?

mladen

09-02-2022, 08:52 PM

I've decided I'll take the passenger upper control arm apart as soon as I find someone local with a lathe or milling machine to shorten it nicely.

In the meantime, started on brake lines. I followed a combination of build manual and EdwardBs build thread. Ran the lines out of the footbox as per the manual, but going from driver's side to passenger I took Edward's route.

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I bought a pretty fancy pipe bending tool, but I just can't really grok it. I ended up making all the bends by hand, around one of the posts for the roll bars to avoid kinking the lines. Worked out pretty well, aside from making the loops, as you can tell by the photos. Not the cleanest of looks :)

I also started on the rear brake lines.

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Of course, no part of my build is complete without mishaps. Made the first bend, and then realized the fitting slid down. I ended up using this piece for practice making loops. Ordered replacements from Summit, so completion of rear brakes will have to wait.

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One tool recommendation to make. I use this daily but never occurred to me to share it. Some time back I bought this convertible garage chair (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0875QRCMT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1). It is a great investment. Converts to a low seat, for when you're working around the wheels and things, or to a higher one for the rest.

mladen

09-04-2022, 01:09 PM

I paused work on fuel and brake lines as I'm waiting for some parts to come in. Namely, more 3/16 brake lines, since I messed one up. And an in-tank fuel pump (and related parts) from Breeze and new 3/8 brake lines from Summit.

I also took the plunge and got a crap load of stuff from Breeze that was on my potential mods list: pre-cut koolmat kit, LED lights, battery relocation kit, radiator mounts...

In the meantime, I started work on aluminum panels. Saw a really great post and pics from Jeff K around using scotchbrite pads to lightly brush the panels. I then sealed it with Sharkhide.

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It is way more elbow grease, gloves, rags, and acetone than I anticipated. How much more, you ask? I call this next picture the: "I'll just put one glove on since I'll probably use just one hand to do all this"

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The results look good though. Totally worth it. I, unfortunately, thought of this after some panels were already fully in place, so the results won't be perfect. Doing this on all panels that will be visible from up top or inside the engine bay. Everything exposed toward the road I'm planning to cover with Herculiner (truck bed lines) for protection. Trunk will be carpeted inside so also only treated below.

mladen

09-05-2022, 09:13 PM

Still working on cockpit aluminum. It is taking way more time than I thought. On the order of 6hrs for each side, and still not done, nor worked on the exterior finish.

Wondering if anyone has thoughts because I ran into a couple of issues with this.

First, the front flanges. The manual tells us to mark them, but not drill them yet. I can't figure out why, nor can I find a step later in the manual that actually completes this. "this" being riveting to the A shaped piece of aluminum sitting at the front of the transmission tunnel.

Second problem, the vertical piece of both floors is instructed to only be glued to the transmission tunnel. My assumption is that it's because the top cover will sit over the edges on the sides. The problem? After keeping it with 4 clamps for 24+ hours, the aluminum peeled back very quickly. I'm using Gorilla silicone, so should be good. Any issue if I hit a couple of rivets in to keep them in place? Will it interfere with the top piece later on?

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A few suggestions for folks that will work on this. When you're installing the floor, drill holes for the rivets alongside the door a little further in. I used the standard spacing that the rivet tool provides, and once you get to adding the little side piece that is below the door, the flange can overlap those rivets. So just move them inward, there's room since the frame below is wide. Then once you add the side piece you can drill additional holes for it. I figured this out for the driver's side.

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And maybe a third question. When do you all think about waterproofing the cockpit? I have a lot of little holes everywhere where the panels don't fully meet and overlap. You can see that ugly splatter of silicone in the photo above, where I saw one. I'm getting tempted to do a similar thing all around.

Another thing the manual tells you is to install the under the door piece but not rivet the rear side, and later they have you return to do the rear corner that goes underneath it. This made no sense to me as you can clearly do these pieces together, holding them both with clecos as you drill and then gluing and riveting them both at once.

John Ibele

09-06-2022, 11:04 AM

I'll do my best to answer your questions, and hopefully some more experienced builders will chime in.

First, the front flanges. The manual tells us to mark them, but not drill them yet. I can't figure out why, nor can I find a step later in the manual that actually completes this. "this" being riveting to the A shaped piece of aluminum sitting at the front of the transmission tunnel.

I've gotten to the point of buttoning up my cockpit - everything but the final fitment of the transmission top cover - and I haven't found a reason not to rivet these in place earlier.

Second problem, the vertical piece of both floors is instructed to only be glued to the transmission tunnel. My assumption is that it's because the top cover will sit over the edges on the sides. The problem? After keeping it with 4 clamps for 24+ hours, the aluminum peeled back very quickly. I'm using Gorilla silicone, so should be good. Any issue if I hit a couple of rivets in to keep them in place? Will it interfere with the top piece later on?

I think you're right about the reason the manual is written this way, but again, I don't see a problem with putting a rivet or two to hold the sides in place. I had countersink rivets on hand which I used when doing my dash, and I've found these handy in a few other places as well, including the transmission tunnel sides. That way the sides are still a flat surface after riveting, and don't create a gap with respect to the top cover when it's installed.

And maybe a third question. When do you all think about waterproofing the cockpit? I have a lot of little holes everywhere where the panels don't fully meet and overlap. You can see that ugly splatter of silicone in the photo above, where I saw one. I'm getting tempted to do a similar thing all around.

Keep in mind, this makes it harder to get the water out of the cockpit when you get caught in the rain (which you will) :D

I did my patching before putting my sound dampener material in place. I used silicone for small spots, keeping it as neat as I could, aluminum tape (check out the HVAC aisle at any local builder's store) along most cockpit panel seams, and then aluminum patches siliconed in place for larger gaps.

Shot of transmission side after e-brake was done, showing countersunk rivets and some aluminum tape on the A panel. And yeah ... the vinyl e-brake boot is going to do a great job keeping the rain out of my cockpit :rolleyes:. Come to think of it, maybe this can be my cockpit drain!

Good catch-up on your build thread, and good progress! Hope that helps a bit.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51620488359_cc19b77ee8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mDwuKZ)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mDwuKZ) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

mladen

09-06-2022, 09:24 PM

John Ibele

09-06-2022, 10:43 PM

One point I missed. You do want your foot boxes sealed well, though. This is to keep the heat from the engine bay out.

edwardb

09-06-2022, 10:51 PM

Thank you, Jon. These are great suggestions. I didn't even know countersunk rivets existed. I ordered a bunch from Amazon and will use those to rivet the sides in. I'm planing to use screws for the top so it can be removed if needed.

For waterproofing, also a great idea on the aluminum tape. I have some already form when I was installing a new dryer vent. And good point on the drainage. I've been stressing over any small hole, and I completely forgot the huge gaping hole that will be there for the e-brake and shifter levers :D

Rivets into the tunnel wall aluminum are fine. Where they contact the frame. Have always put them there on mine. If you're planning a removable cover, countersunk flush rivets along the top edge work fine. Aluminum tape works well for covering any gaps. Put it on the inside before any insulation or carpet. The only exception is where the round chassis tube goes through the footbox on the RH side front. Most including me make a filler piece out of aluminum sheet. It's a large gap. I guess I'm the exception. In 10+ years and thousands of miles (and plenty of rain...) I've never had so much water in the cockpit that a drain was needed. But if you feel the need, add something purposely after everything is done, e.g. insulation and carpet, seats installed, etc. Don't plan on water finding it's way to whatever gaps you leave behind. As for the e-brake and shifter opening, you'll find water doesn't come in through those. Even in heavy downpours. There's positive air pressure in the tunnel and unless you're fording a river or whatever (!!!) those openings don't take in water.

mladen

09-09-2022, 07:15 PM

Ok, some small updates, and progress on the aluminum. I have both sides of the cockpit done as far as the manual suggests before going into the wiring harness. Before I get to that, there's some work I need to do, like doing some planning for the heater behind the firewall, and thinking about where I'm going to run air intake into the footboxes from the brake scoop openings. Oh, and still waiting for the e-brake from Gordon Levy, I need to install that and route it through before I start working on the trunk aluminum, so it's easier to access.

I started using Herculiner bed liner on the aluminum panels that will be exposed to the road but not visible from the engine bay. Won't cover everything, like inside of the trans tunnel, mainly concentrating on the bottom of the car and panels around the wheels. I'm slightly regretting this decision because it's such a mess to work with, even with miles of masking tapes and dozens of rags. I'm trying to pay attention to not apply it where it will connect to the cockpit back piece, or where the bulb seal will go. Once I get to that, I'll fill in any gaps.

During drying time I've been doing little things, like assembling the drop trunk kit, making progress on the fluid reservoirs, reading the wiring harness manual, partially installing Russ' turn signal (will do more once the dash is in place. Also need to find a local machinist to modify the boss to fit the NRG quick release).

Speaking of aluminum, the thing I predicted will end up biting me, has bit me. Predrilling the passenger footbox was a mistake. What I neglected when I fully dry-assembled it was that the front panel will be riveted into the thick mounting plate, moving the top and outer side panel further back. Now they don't align.

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You can see how that corner in the front is being bent and pushed out by the side panel, when the side panel is attached to the 2x2 (near the door hinge), and the top panel doesn't fit. I think to resolve this, I need to redrill the holes near the door and also on the top. In that middle photo, how does the positioning of the top panel look to you all? I'm thinking if it might end up being too far back and interfering with either the windshield or the dash.

mladen

09-11-2022, 04:16 PM

Ok. More aluminum updates. I still don't know what I'll do about the driver's footbox issue above. Delaying that decision for now.

I did the second coat of Herculiner, and after the initial mess, I'd say it doesn't look too bad. Not a smooth finish, not sure how much dirt will stick into little crevices but we'll see. It is very resistant to dings and scratches. Btw, I picked based on the review on Project Farm. At this point I don't buy anything until I first see if he did a review. Excellent YouTube channel!

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I moved to the trunk, making cuts for Russ' drop trunk mod, and generally clecoing everything into place, since I haven't done the e-brake, fuel lines and pump, or the wiring. I did realize one thing. The manual suggests to install the side panels, and then the little triangle pieces on the inside. However, the lower edge on those triangle pieces can be riveted to the frame only from the outside. So I'm going to reverse these two steps, as the side pieces are only riveted from the outside. That way I can fully fasten the little triangle pieces.

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John Ibele

09-12-2022, 02:42 PM

I editted this to remove input based on my older MKIV kit, and would have caused confusion ...

Couple things. First, the finish on your PS footbox looks great - nice when things end up looking like they did in your head before you started, isn't it? :D

For your last post on the trunk panels, you've got that right. But don't button things up until later (see item below, DS footbox). Typically you'll dry fit panels a number of times before you commit with silicone and rivets. For the trunk, know where all your wiring is going, mark down what order your panels are going to go on, make liberal use of a sharpie to take notes right on the panels. Know when you're going to drill for your rollbars in relation to back cockpit panel installation. And so on. But obviously all that's for after you have all your wiring, fuel lines, brake lines, fuel tank ... in place.

Brake lines: before you leave your rear brake line on the outside of the DS footbox (where it heads down before going rearward) instead of putting in on the inside, you should search the forum on the advantages / disadvantages of one vs. the other. I put mine on the inside, figuring there'd be more distance and some thermal insulation between the brake line and the headers that way. Headers will be very close to your brake line, and they're hot. Maybe more significantly, yours is kinda hanging out there away from everything. I would at least get it inboard, hugged up against the 4" frame member, for its entire run to the back of the car.

DS panels. Typically the panels are very close to spot on when screwed on by the factory. I would try assembling the footbox using the screw holes made at the factory, for starters. Don't forget the nice photos you took in post #14. They suggest you just need to let that outside panel 'float' away from the frame to match up with the top.

Tip for later, once this is solved ... don't put these outside panels on either side with anything more than clecos until you have finished applying sound / thermal barrier to the inside of the cockpit, and maybe carpet depending on what order you're planning on doing things in. It's much harder to access this area with those panels installed, and you'll want them off for wiring, insulation, and a bunch of other work before they go on for good.

The outside footbox panels won't show at all when the body is on, and worst case you could drill out some rivets if you made a mistake in assembly. Everyone (I mean absolutely everyone) has drilled out a rivet somewhere. So very recoverable. But it is a good reminder about the importance of build order, and when to commit things with rivets, silicone, and so on. You know what they say about the best decisions (applies throughout the build) ... they're not made too early. And they're not made too late. :) Good luck!

mladen

09-15-2022, 12:09 PM

@John, this is gold! Thank you so much for these notes.

Your point about having the front DS alu panel float is spot on. As soon as I did that, everything else fit into place. And I was following the original mounting holes by FFR when I first set it up. I'm going this route. Though now I have 3 holes where the rivets used to be that I can't hide cosmetically. This is going to eat at me a lot :D I have a slight OCD, and I'm still thinking about a hole in the aluminum floor I made before I realized (by destroying to drill bits) that it was going into the weld :)

172516

Good point about the brake lines. I have it angled toward the big round tube as soon as it is bent under the floor. I will keep the footbox open until the last moment, so I can swap that section out if needed.

172517

Couple of small updates, and of course, mistakes. I've made cutouts for the heater in the FFMetal firewall forward panel, using the heater instructions. What I neglected was that those instructions are based on the original firewall, which mounts slightly differently, over the 3/4 tube and not on the side. This means that I moved the cutout too much toward the center of the car. As you can see below, that made one of the air outlets almost rest against the dash loop support bar. I thought about ordering a new firewall forward, but I already drilled the holes in the 2x2 for this one. If the new one doesn't have the holes in the aluminum exactly where this one does, they won't align and I'll have to make swiss cheese of the 2x2 which I don't want to do. So the plan, for now, is to just jam it in like this. Part of the air hose going to the driver's side will be crushed and the air flow restricted, but I'm hoping it won't be noticeable.

172518

And finally, a question. I was doing a dry fit for the main rear cockpit panel and I have an issue when I use the two holes that FFR had it mounted in, namely, the bottom flange on the PS is almost 1/2" above the cockpit floor. I can adjust the positioning of the panel so it sits nicely, but the result is that the cutouts for the harness are sitting slightly lower than the 3/4 tube. So the question is, if I attach it this way, will the 3/4" protruding into the cutout cause any issues when installing the harnesses? And secondly, does this indicate that the panel itself is sitting low, and maybe won't seal well when the body is put on?

172519

Side note, picked up a tip from ie427 to get a long drill bit for hard-to-reach places. I got a couple of 1/8 at 12" long. They've been a lifesaver when doing the trunk panels!

460.465USMC

09-15-2022, 02:49 PM

And finally, a question. I was doing a dry fit for the main rear cockpit panel and I have an issue when I use the two holes that FFR had it mounted in, namely, the bottom flange on the PS is almost 1/2" above the cockpit floor. I can adjust the positioning of the panel so it sits nicely, but the result is that the cutouts for the harness are sitting slightly lower than the 3/4 tube. So the question is, if I attach it this way, will the 3/4" protruding into the cutout cause any issues when installing the harnesses? And secondly, does this indicate that the panel itself is sitting low, and maybe won't seal well when the body is put on?

I'll be curious to read what responses you get, as mine are the same. The bottom of my rear cockpit wall sits flush on the 4" tube chassis, as I figured not having a gap there would be important. Since the belts are so thin, I'm not expecting clearance through these holes to be an issue with the partially blocking 3/4" tube.

edwardb

09-15-2022, 03:22 PM

I'll be curious to read what responses you get, as mine are the same. The bottom of my rear cockpit wall sits flush on the 4" tube chassis, as I figured not having a gap there would be important. Since the belts are so thin, I'm not expecting clearance through these holes to be an issue with the partially blocking 3/4" tube.

The 3/4" tube partially in the openings of the rear cockpit wall is intentional. That is so the harness straps through the opening rub against the wider 3/4" tube rather than the openings in the .040" aluminum. Locate the back wall against the floor and 4" tubes.

John Ibele

09-15-2022, 08:19 PM

If you can't get comfortable with the current location for the heater, one idea is to do an aluminum patch covering the existing hole, and with a new cutout in the proper location. Doesn't initially sound great, but done well (symmetrical on either side of the heater in its proper location, rivets evenly spaced, etc ...), it could look just fine, and no one other than another builder would know that it wasn't your original plan. I'd likely do that before ordering a new firewall and putting a bunch more holes in the frame.

mladen

09-16-2022, 08:31 PM

Great insight as always! Thank you both! I'll post back when I do a dry fit for the heater.

Today I thought I'd do a bit of info on my adventures with using the truck bed liner.

I opted for a roll-on (vs spray) bed liner, mainly because of easier control during application. Especially since I decided to do this after I had already installed some panels and didn't want to make a mess with a spray. As I mentioned before, I follow Project Farm a lot, so I opted for Herculiner based on their review (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8RY-Z0ObgY&ab_channel=ProjectFarm).

My main goal with this was protection of the side of panels that would be exposed to the road. Some need more, like the F panels, some less, like the aluminum above the trunk, but I committed to it so did more than was needed. There were parts where I gave up as can be seen in photos. The coat is pretty thick, so it's possible it helps with noise/rattle as well.

I made two mistakes in prep. First, the can very prominently says to not shake, which I stupidly took to mean also don't stir it. You should definitely stir it, and stir it well. A piece of wood will do fine if you do it for a few minutes. Stir occasionally while you apply too. The other mistake was in the material prep. I did scuff it as the instructions said, and cleaned it with acetone. It wasn't enough. You really need to go to town on the aluminum and leave as few shiny parts as possible. I used quite a lot of 120 grit sandpaper. Not prepping wellresulted in the material almost completely sliding off the aluminum panel as if it was Teflon. Of course, as I've said, I did not do this from the start, so getting the panels at the bottom of the car (cockpit and footbox floors) is going to be a significant pain to do.

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In that last photo you can see I did give up on some spots in the rear trunk panel, the back side of the vertical lip. Mainly because it would be a drag to mask it properly, and it also sits behind the tank so I don't expect it will see much action from debris and such.

I did say in an earlier post that I was potentially regretting doing this, but at this point, I think I'm glad. Though my sentiment might change when I have to crawl under the car and paint the bottom pieces upside down, with this sticky goo falling onto my face and hair :D
Wear gloves! This thing is something between pain and tar and sticks to everything. Even though it's quite dense, it still drips and runs. Make sure you protect anything you don't want coated with this, and if you do make a mess have rags and acetone ready to clean off immediately. It will come off easily if done quickly. As much as possible, apply this to panels when they are in a horizontal position, and leave it to dry like that.

I marked the panels where they will attach to other panels or the frame, and then used masking tape to cover those areas. This does come on thick and I didn't want it to interfere with attaching the panels. It will create a less than perfect result visually, ie there will be places where you'll be able to see a little bit of aluminum when looking underneath the car, but I'm going for function, not looks. Similarly, as you can see in the photos where the masking tape was removed afterwards, it does wick underneath in places. Consider this if you want a really pristine finish.

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As the instructions say, do apply two coats. It may look ok after the first one, but it makes a big difference in the hardness of the finish. It took a good several hours for each coat to dry, so plan around 3 hours between coats. The second one is significantly easier to do as the material sticks to itself really well.

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EDIT: And as I look through the photos now, I see that I made another mistake. Of course I did. Even though I thought of it for other panels earlier, I forgot about the bulb seal for the trunk sides. I imagine I will have to scrape some of the liner off so the seal sits well on top of those pieces :/

460.465USMC

09-20-2022, 03:37 PM

FYI: I'm using Dupli-color bedliner much in the same way. It has a pretty heavy texture. I, too, didn't think about (know about) clearance for bulb seal. So, I ran the bedliner right up to the edge on the outer edges of my rear cockpit wall. Well, since then I have installed bulb seal and it fits over just fine. I'm not recommending to not leave a gap for bulb seal. Just saying you may be okay with the parts you've already coated.

mladen

09-22-2022, 10:25 AM

Quick update without photos.

I've spent some time bleeding the brakes, manually (having a helper pump the pedal). It went without fairly easy. I've placed pieces of cardboard under every spot where there was a connection and found no leaks. Not sure if a pressure bleeder would help, but we definitely needed to do this over 2 days, letting things settle and then doing it again, as some air kept coming out when we would try after a few hours. Didn't put the wheels on to try rolling and stopping yet.

I received all the parts from Breeze, so I installed the new in-tank high flow pump and return. I didn't have a step bit that goes to 9/16, only 1/2, so used a regular bit to go from 1/2 to 9/16. It did warp the tank material a bit, which gives me some concern about the seal. I used a hammer and a wrench on the inside to hammer it flat as much as possible. Would definitely recommend waiting and buying the right step drill bit for this and not repeating my mistake. Worst case scenario is I have to replace the tank :D

I am still in fittings purgatory though. These are the hard lines (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/URR-BSCD660) I'm using this fitting to go from 5/8-18 to 6AN (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640610), however the threads are much shallower than on the photo and they don't engage the flange when fully tightened. So back to the drawing board. I'm returning these to Summit and ordered these instead from Jegs (https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/100708/10002/-1). Hoping they'll work.

mladen

09-24-2022, 09:11 AM

mladen

09-28-2022, 10:13 AM

My fittings saga continues. Jegs went through their entire inventory for that part, as well as part 126007 (which has the same description) and all of them were for bubble and not inverted flare. I have now ordered Edelbrock 640610 (https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B003CGYCHQ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details), and if those don't work than my very last option is Fragola 491942 (https://smile.amazon.com/Fragola-Performance-Systems-491942-BL-Adapter/dp/B07FKLHXK5/ref=sr_1_2?crid=NO1AREVAVWH3&keywords=fragola+491942&qid=1664377471&qu=eyJxc2MiOiItMC4wMiIsInFzYSI6IjAuMDAiLCJxc3AiOiI wLjAwIn0%3D&sprefix=fragola+491942%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-2) which didn't have the best reviews in a few places I found it in stock. Who knew it would be so difficult to find this fitting.

In the meantime, I've installed the Breeze battery mount. It was pretty straightforward as the instructions are great. I also love that an elbow grease fitting is provided so that you can easily grease the lower control arm. Great attention to detail. If I could change one thing it would be to use bolts that don't require me to get a #7 and #21 drill bits and use standard sizes.

173140173141

I ordered this connector kit (https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B09DKZRYZK?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details) which has a bolt so I'll be able to easily attach more cables directly to the battery, as needed.

John Ibele

09-28-2022, 04:04 PM

I am still in fittings purgatory though. These are the hard lines (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/URR-BSCD660) I'm using this fitting to go from 5/8-18 to 6AN (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640610), however the threads are much shallower than on the photo and they don't engage the flange when fully tightened. So back to the drawing board. I'm returning these to Summit and ordered these instead from Jegs (https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/100708/10002/-1). Hoping they'll work.

Wish I had caught this earlier. I'm not exactly clear about your setup, but my general recommendation is that when you buy from one of the vendors on the forum, get them on the phone if something is not clear after reviewing the information they provided and what is available through a search of the forum. Mark's instructions are typically quite thorough. He is happy to talk through the installation of his products, and is fundamentally interested in getting you to a satisfactory end result.

I'll assume for the moment you're trying to go from a 3/8" hard line to an -AN fitting. I used a Let-lok compression fitting (https://breezeautomotive.com/shop/fitting-3-8-od-tube-to-06an-male-316-stainless-steel/) for this, which swages the connector onto the tube and doesn't require a flare. Photo below shows what that looks like. Again ... guessing here. Offer further detail on the specifics of what you're trying to do if I'm off track.

Compression fitting on the end of the hard line I used to go from the rear to the front of the car.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50517212801_a7a1d2eeee_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jY2VnB)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2jY2VnB) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

Front end of same hard line / compression fitting connected to the braided hose in the engine bay.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52305283144_b9710f8ed0_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nG3foC)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nG3foC) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

mladen

09-28-2022, 08:18 PM

Yeah, you got it right. I bought 3/8 hard lines that are terminated with 5/8-18 male fittings, and I'm trying to go from that to 6AN. In hindsight, I should have probably spent more time searching for lines that have a more common type of fitting and not having to convert to begin with :)

John Ibele

09-30-2022, 01:33 PM

mladen

10-06-2022, 04:25 PM

Well, if you changed course and went on a $10 trip to AutoZone for a length of 3/8" tubing with nothing on either end it might be one of the cheapest do-overs I've heard of on these cars. In fact I'm pretty sure most veteran builders would call it "moving ahead with the build". You'll get used to it soon ;)

You're absolutely right. I was really avoiding doing flares on my own, and hoping to just stick with pre-made lines. It ended up costing me a bunch to find the right fittings, I have many more connections too. I should have just took the plunge and did it myself. I spent more on fittings than what an expensive flaring tool would cost.

On that topic btw, the Edelbrock (https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B003CGYCHQ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details) fittings didn't work either. :/ They had the same issue of the threads not being deep enough and when fully tightened the flare was not seated. Fragola (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FRA-491942-BL) on the other hand thankfully worked, so hopefully I'm done with this and I can finish the fuel lines :)

mladen

11-29-2022, 09:22 PM

Ok, it's been a while. Quite a whirlwind in my life, but all good eventually, and I finally got back to the build. When I say got back I mean mainly trying to catch up on understanding exactly where I was and what's next. And that place was the wiring of the battery.

Quick recap. I opted for the Blueprint 427 EFI which comes with an alternator. I'm also doing a battery cutoff switch. I'm glad I read through all the instructions that came from BP before finalizing the wiring for the battery because if I hadn't, it would have been wasted effort and I'd have to throw away some steps and material.

For starters, both FFR and Breeze supply 4 gauge wire in their kits. This is NOT enough according to the instructions from Blueprint, which asks for 1 gauge or larger. I opted for 1/0 gauge (I know it's a bit of an overkill).

Second, they specifically call out to ground the engine to the battery directly, not to the chassis, not to a shared post.

Third, the single wire alternator provided calls out to wire it directly to the battery, and also to use a 4 gauge wire. So I'll be skipping the alternator wiring provided by the RF harness. Another benefit of wiring the alternator to the battery directly is that it smooths out the noisy output from the alternator. I'll have extra 1/0 wire so I'll use that. Complete overkill.

So, I'm now waiting for the cables I ordered. In the meantime, the setup I will be going with will look something like this:

Negative battery post connected to:
- Chassis
- EFI negative lead
- Engine block

Positive battery post connected to:
- Battery cutoff switch In
- Alternator
- EFI positive lead

Battery cutoff switch Out connected to:
- Starter solenoid
- RF harness fuse box

Battery cutoff switch In jumped to:
- Custom-made fuse box for 'always on' circuits (clock, etc)

John Ibele

12-01-2022, 08:52 PM

Good progress. It took me a long time sorting through the manual, build threads and the Holley Sniper instructions before settling on my engine bay wiring layout. It looks like much of BPs requirements come directly from the Sniper instructions. I did step up to 2 awg wire for battery leads, not 1/0. Didn’t really understand this - not sure how going with a larger cable than needed for current carrying capability is a solution for electrical noise. But, not an electrical guy.

But I did run Sniper connections directly to the battery. I also paid attention to clean wiring to avoid noise issues as much as possible, also as called for in the Sniper installation instructions.

mladen

12-13-2022, 02:55 PM

Haven't made much progress with wiring. I think I'm still unsure so I procrastinate with it.

I did make a few changes. I originally intended to use these (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B09DKZRYZK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1) battery terminals. My thinking was that I can stack multiple eyelet terminals. Well, they have to fan out because of their shape, and the whole thing would look very messy. So I switched to these (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QZRKXSL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1) terminals instead and I think the whole thing will look much cleaner. The wires go in directly without connectors as well. Given what I'm trying to do I chose the ones that take 2x 0-6 awg and 2x 8-10 awg wires, but they have other configurations that will fit your needs.

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I've also been examining the wiring diagram for the RF harness (Rev W 2019) and am a little confused as to how the positive battery lead is plumbed through. From what I can gather, the positive lead from the battery goes to the Starter. From there, it goes to a few places, like `red-batteery-feed` to the fuse panel and `red-alternator-feed` to the alternator. What confuses me is that it also goes to the Bat on the ignition switch via `red-ign-switch>sol`. Once it gets to the ignition switch, from the same Bat post there it goes to `red-hdlt sw 1 feed`. This seems like the ignition switch and the headlight switch are directly wired to the battery, not going through a fuse. Why would that be?

Railroad

12-14-2022, 03:00 PM

Most headlight switches have an internal breaker. I am sure some of the after market ones do not.
The ignition switch is not usually fused. If you want you can put a high amp breaker on the hot lead after the starter to the switch,
it will cover everything down stream and if accessibly located can be addressed if needed.

mladen

12-16-2022, 03:26 PM

I spent a lot of time just looking through the wiring diagram and trying to understand everything, and glad that I did before I drilled any holes in the firewall, because I ended up making a lot of changes.

1. Because I'm wiring the starter directly to the battery (through a cut-off switch), I basically got rid of the whole Starter branch except the light blue wire that activates it on ignition
2. Similarly since my alternator is one wire only, and connected directly to the battery, I got rid of the Alternator branch as well
3. I simplified the Ignition Switch branch by pulling out the battery feed cables that go to the fuse panel and headlight switch. These will be shortened and connected to a distribution block inside the firewall (downstream of the master cut-off)
4. I will be splicing in a new 12v line for the speedo/clock that will bypass the master cut-off. Was thinking of an additional fuse box, but since it's only one line, I'll probably do an inline fuse
5. I'm adding an additional fuse box that will power the seat heaters, footwell air fans, and USB chargers, active on Accessory. Decided to wire these separately and not piggyback off the unused circuits like the radio and wipers.
6. A few other changes will include a switch to manually turn on the engine cooling fan and a custom high beam button

With these changes, I may be able to get away with just 2 holes in the firewall instead of 3. Hopefully, I was careful enough with the surgery and didn't create any issues. I used a multimeter to test continuity and identify which wires went where. If you do this, keep in mind that some wires are connected together at the fuse box so when you detect connectivity, it doesn't mean it's one wire, it could be two going separately to the same fuse.

edwardb

12-16-2022, 08:04 PM

mladen

12-16-2022, 09:14 PM

edwardb

12-17-2022, 08:08 AM

Yeah, I'll still be using the FFR provided ignition switch, so it's not a huge change. Here is the diagram that I have and the two relevant pieces zoomed in.

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The red-alternator-fd was a cable that just went from the alternator branch to the solenoid branch, where it would have been attached directly to the battery basically as they wire 12v from the battery to the solenoid.
red-battery-feed was also in the solenoid branch of the harness, attached to the same spot. This will be going to the distribution block (btw edward, I orderd the blocks and fuse holders from the photos in your build thread :) ) which goes battery+>cut off switch>giant *** fuse>distribution block
red-ignition-sw->sol will still be attached to Bat on the ignition switch, but instead of going to the solenoid it will be shortened and on the distribution block.
red-hdlt-1-sw-feed I could have attached to the distribution block as well, but that wire starts almost all the way at the beginning of the harness, and I didn't want to mess with unwrapping the whole harness, so I'll just have it attached to Bat on the ignition switch as they have it in the diagram.

Yeah, standard RF schematic that I'm very familiar with. If you end up with connections as shown there, should be ok. Just don't overcomplicate it. (not that I would... :rolleyes:) One hint FWIW, which I mentioned multiple times on the forum. My interpretation of the "Starter Solenoid" in the RF diagram is not the solenoid thats on the now 100% common mini-starter. Some drag the RF wires down to the mini-starter and it works. But it's messy and unnecessary. I believe the diagram is from former times when it was common to have a firewall mounted solenoid. Now no longer needed. I might be wrong, but if not wish they would change the manual. I typically route the power wires to a feed through on the firewall combined with a master disconnect if I'm using one. Modern starter solenoid only needs two wires - +12V battery on the large terminal and light blue signal wire on the small terminal.

mladen

12-24-2022, 10:11 PM

I've finally made some substantial progress on the wiring. Following items are complete:

- Main fuse installed followed by a distribution block
- Front and rear harnesses roughly routed
- Main fuse box installed under dash
- Created a custom branch that will power the seat heaters, USB chargers (at the back of the tunnel) and trunk lights
- Air scoop fans wired up

I did some more "editing" of the harness. I decided to wire the neutral safety switch on the TKX, since it's there, and it will be nice to be able to start the engine when in neutral without pressing the clutch. Few places online mention to ground the NSS through a relay, so I did that. I am also adding a "secret" kill switch, wired in series, so that the starter will not run if it's not turned on, regardless of the clutch or NSS. This meant that I could no longer leave the EFI starter signal wired to the ignition switch, so I removed that wire and wired it to my security kill switch instead, that way the EFI gets the signal only if the starter is actually running.

One thing I noticed when wiring the clutch switch is that I either got the wrong switch, or the instructions are not correct. Both the clutch and brake switch are the same, which is that the connectors near the white switch pin are NO, and the further ones are NC. The instructions have you wire the brakes to the front ones (NO) and clutch to the back ones (NC). If I had done that the clutch switch would actually only allow cranking when the clutch pedal ISN'T pressed. Not sure what happened there but I'm pretty certain that it should be wired to normally open and not normally closed.

I also noticed that my ignition switch has a connector in the middle. Not sure what it is for, and it's not referenced on the wiring diagram. Letters ST are next to it. Perhaps Parking lights?

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The mess in the third photo is the heater/trunk light/NSS/usb charger. I still need to wrap up and route them.

Some of you will notice the giant wire bringing in 12v. I mentioned before that I used 0 gauge as the BluePrint instructions said so. I had some extra so I used that. Overkill for sure. But, when I'm driving around and run into a damsel in distress that has a welding emergency, I'll have wiring ready that can handle a TIG welder :D

Namrups

12-25-2022, 08:38 AM

The picture in the manual is wrong on the clutch safety switch as you have found out. It's been noted in a number of threads. It would seem to be an easy fix to the manual, but??

mladen

12-25-2022, 12:20 PM

Still working on the wiring. I have two questions and a note.

Anyone out there with a 351w BluePrint that can send me a photo or two and a quick measurement as to the distance of the starter connector posts in relation to, lets say, the rear side of the engine mounting bracket? I'm trying to cut the wires to length and terminate them as it will be a lot easier to do without the engine in. I have 12v and ignition signal coming from the firewall, and I'm planning to ground it as well, I tapped into the side of the round tube as seen in the photo.

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Second question, does anyone know what these parts are? They are in the box with the FFR heater. The instructions don't mention them. Only thing I can presume is that it attaches to the back of the dash where the heater switch is, and then on the firewall, to act as a support of some kind so the dash doesn't wobble when you pull the switch out... Maybe?! I have the firewall forward so not sure if that would work anyway.

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I did a dry fit of the Mike Everson under-dash filler panel and realized two things. First, I should have attached it at the same time as the firewall, and definitely before putting insulation on the firewall :D And second, it seems to be designed for an earlier version of the roadster that didn't have this large bracket for the steering column. I've pinged Mike to ask but I assume I'll have to make that notch deeper so the bracket can pass through. EDIT: Managed to find a thread discussing this and yeah, sounds like the general recommendation is just to cut off the left side completely so the panel ends at the right side of the steering column bracket.

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JeffP

12-25-2022, 04:08 PM

Second question, does anyone know what these parts are? They are in the box with the FFR heater. The instructions don't mention them. Only thing I can presume is that it attaches to the back of the dash where the heater switch is, and then on the firewall, to act as a support of some kind so the dash doesn't wobble when you pull the switch out... Maybe?! I have the firewall forward so not sure if that would work anyway.

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Thats the 'defroster' shroud. i'm not sure how it honestly gets assembled, i didn't use it, just skipped the defroster. I will add that the pull switch sucks. Especially if you have a Firewall forward and a glove box, the cable really isn't log enough for the valve. Vintage air makes a nice 12v solenoid controlled value if you don't mind having an extra switch on the dash. One for the fan, one for the temp. Its not overly expensive either.

John Ibele

12-25-2022, 07:10 PM

I’d offer a different perspective on the pull switch. I think the knob that comes with it is simply ugly, but the control works well for me. I found a polished aluminum knob that’s an exact match for the headlight pull, and fits the heater cable. Mine does full actuation on the valve, and the cable moves freely despite a pretty tight curve behind the dash.

mladen

12-25-2022, 09:03 PM

That's not a bad option. I'd skip using that decal too. Not a fan of the look. @John, do you happen to have a link for the replacement knob you used?

I found the electric valve as well, it's about $50 so if I get stuck with the cable I might go that route instead.

edwardb

12-26-2022, 06:48 AM

...I also noticed that my ignition switch has a connector in the middle. Not sure what it is for, and it's not referenced on the wiring diagram. Letters ST are next to it. Perhaps Parking lights?

That "ST" connection is for the starter. Not sure how you'd wire an ignition switch without it. Common ignition switch connections per below and illustrated on the Ron Francis chassis wiring harness schematic:

BATT -- Always on +12V. Typically tied to always on circuits including lighting, plus provides power for positions on the switch described below.
ACC -- Powers only ACC circuits when the key is in the first accessory position. Also on when in the run position, and switched off when in the start position.
IGN -- Powers IGN and ACC circuits when the key is in the run position. Default position when driving with all circuits powered and engine running.
ST -- Provides +12V when the key is in the start position. In a traditional installation, is wired to the small post on the starter solenoid, closing the solenoid and causing the starter to spin.

That's not a bad option. I'd skip using that decal too. Not a fan of the look. @John, do you happen to have a link for the replacement knob you used?

I've found these knobs are nice and roughly match the kit provided headlight switch. Or you can replace the kit provided headlight switch knob for an exact match and use them elsewhere. Like on the wiper switch. What I did on my truck build. I've used these two. There are other sizes and finishes. ididit Steering Column Knob 2503100020, Chrome, 1/4 in. Smooth Bore. ididit Steering Column Knob 2503200020, Chrome, Thread On 10-24.

John Ibele

12-26-2022, 10:28 AM

Thanks Paul, beat me to it. Almost certainly same knob I have, different supplier. Also almost certain this has the set screw in the side although it’s not mentioned in the description. In case you’re mystified by the VintageAir knob’s means of attachment to the shaft (I was), it does have a set screw as well - just well hidden under that cheesy rubber.

mladen

12-26-2022, 07:54 PM

Facepalm... Somehow I thought I had one more post than the wiring diagram shows. I've been looking at the wiring way too long clearly :D

Since I have the light switch, heater switch, and will have 2 cable pulls for the air inlets, I've been trying to find identical knobs for all of them. Probably spent 4 hours Googling today and looking at all options. I have to say I'm amazed at how hard some of the companies make it to buy their products. The information they provide is so sparse. Not to pick on Ron Francis because the issue is endemic, Ron seems to have the widest range of options and is probably where I'll buy them, but the descriptions are terse, a lot of items share one identical photo, and there are even items like LG-5 and LG-9 which are seemingly identical.

EDIT: Heard back from Ron. Seems like they are the same in fact, just listed under multiple categories. I ended up ordering knobs and bezels of the same kind for ignition, lights, and heater. Now looking for new control cables for the air intakes, as the ones I have don't have removable knobs...

EDIT 2: And a plug for some tools. I've been doing the wiring for some days now, and I have to say this crimping set (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B092MRZ5JK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1) is AMAZING. It's not cheap but works like a dream. Has different kinds of inserts for different kinds of connectors. You could get a version with fewer for less, but I decided to buy once and not think about it again.

mladen

12-27-2022, 01:27 PM

Wanted to share one more quick note about the brake/clutch switches, since most probably won't be checking continuity on them the way I did, but just install and adjust them. I don't know if this is an issue with just the ones I have, and chances are low that anyone hits this issue, but, there is a very small gap of about 1mm of travel for the switch near where the switch is fully pressed in, where it will be OFF on both the normally open and normally closed terminals, which technically is not how it's supposed to behave. Again, this will probably not be a problem for anyone, but documenting it here in case someone does :)

mladen

12-28-2022, 09:53 PM

I'm finally getting the wiring, at least on the engine bay side near completion. I have the main power cables cut, terminated, and routed. Are they chunky or what. Those conduits look ridiculous. :D I haven't clamped everything into place just yet as I'll eventually have to take the cut-off out to upholster the interior and want to have some wiggle room. On that cut-off switch, you can see that I didn't wire those pins. You're supposed to use them so that if you turn it off it would disconnect the alternator (killing the battery will not shut down the car if the alternator is providing power). So it's not proper from a safety perspective, but it's mostly there so that I can disconnect the battery during winter, and to look cool :D

The heater/defroster is in place as well. Those sheet metal screws in plastic don't inspire a lot of confidence. Threads on one were already chewed up and I had to use a larger screw as you can see, the top right one is silver. Hopefully, it will stay put.

Edit: There are a couple more things though. Cable for controlling the heater valve needs to go through the firewall, and also the EFI loom is still not plumbed through. I'll probably drill a small hole for these two.

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I also installed the Denali SoundBomb horn, as well as an outlet/USB charger combo at the back of the transmission tunnel. I used aluminum profile to attach the horn to. One note is that it can not be slanted more than 20 degrees to the sides according to the instructions, so something to keep in mind with this type of horn. FFR horns are already controlled via a relay in the RF harness so I opted to not use the one provided with the Denali horn.

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Speaking of the heater. Wanted to show a bit better the mistake I made that I mentioned earlier. Basically, when cutting the hole I forgot to take into account that the FFMetal firewall forward does not sit in the same place, so I was not supposed to measure from the edge as the instructions say, because that's in relation to the standard firewall. You can see in the photo, the top left hose is crumpled by about 20% against that cross brace. That one is going to the defroster, which I doubt I'll use much anyway (but need for registration in Virginia), so probably not a big deal.

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Quick tip, a label maker is really cheap and was super helpful in marking the wiring and various relays. Definitely worth the investment.

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I've also made changes to my original plans:

- Since the FFR vintage gauges don't support the dimmer that the standard light switch has, I decided to not use it and instead ordered the HL-16 (https://www.ronfrancis.com/product/665) from Ron Francis which omits the dimmer but does provide the ability to switch between high and low beams
- I also ordered a few other knobs and bezels of the same style from Ron Francis so that ignition etc will match
- I reached out to Speedhut and decided to send them the gauges to replace the default faces with white with blue LED ones. It's a $200 plus shipping mod

All that being said, I think I'm technically ready to drop in the engine and transmission. I'm thinking of doing a mid shift mod, so I'll have to do some reading to see if it's doable once the drivetrain is in place, if not, I'll wait to get the kit and do the mod before proceeding.
I also have to finish the fuel lines, right now they reach up to just below the passenger footbox. The other tow pieces I have are 60" long, so I was waiting to see where the wiring will end up to figure out where to route the fuel lines to, but now I realieze that they are way too long and they'd reach all the way to the middle of the driver footbox. So I orderd two 24" pieces which should get them up to the top edge of the passenger footbox. Though I think this will be easy to do even with the engine in place.

I do have a few questions for folks that are further ahead.

1. Since I have an additional loom for the seat heaters and trunk light, I routed that at the top edge of the tunnel on the driver's side, and planning to route the rear harness on the passenger side. I'm still waiting for the parking brake from Gordon Levy, and I can't tell if having the loom there will interfere with the parking brake at all. Thoughts?

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2. As I'm planning to keep all of the controls on the dash (aside from the gauge dimmer switch), I was really hoping to put the seat heater, air inlet, and fan controls on the outer ends of the dash. It will consist of two 22mm buttons and one pull cable. The passenger side is fine, but I'm worried about the driver side. There's very little space after the speedo. How much of that space can I use before I have to start bending that dash edge? Is there a way to bend it to maximize the dashboard space that can be utilized?

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John Ibele

12-28-2022, 11:38 PM

Good progress. Answers to a couple of your questions. Yes, you should be able to get in and work on the terminations for your fuel lines if they extend to the top of the passenger footbox. But do be aware that everything below that becomes very cramped and difficult to access once the engine is in, so careful planning pays dividends. Even getting a few wrenches in there for tightening a compression fitting, for example, may be tough.

I don't know details of Gordon's product, so hopefully others will chime in. But from my experience with the kit-provided e-brake, anything high in the tunnel should be out of the way. Plenty of photos (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27168-John%92s-Mk4-Build-Thread-Carpet-Prep&p=468742&viewfull=1#post468742) in my build thread and many others.

You can take a look at my early layout work on my blank dash in this shot (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27168-John%92s-Mk4-Build-Thread-Carpet-Prep&p=438743&viewfull=1#post438743). It shows a slanted line going from the end of the frame hoop down to where the bottom lip of the dash ends. My bend actually starts a bit outboard of there (more photos of dash with bends further a few posts down). I think you're not going to be able to put anything outboard of the speedo and have it face the rear of the car, because your bend is going to start at about the left side of the speedo. Keep in mind that the body and door begin to wrap around in the opposite direction to the dash here as well, which means that the body and door will begin to cover the top edge of the dash and hide portions of the dash from direct eyesight in a driving position. You should probably do some measurements of dash and body to make sure you know how the two line up.

JeffP

12-29-2022, 08:35 AM

I agree with John, there won't be much room left of the speedometer. I placed my headlight switch there and when I got to driving in gelcoat I quickly realized it interfered with the top of the door when its closed, I couldn't pull it out with the door closed. When the body came off for paint, it got moved down as low as I could to the bottom of the dash and I had to get a plug to put in the old hole (i have the premade vinyl dash).

I see you're in VA, how'd you end up with km/h speedo?

mladen

12-29-2022, 10:22 AM

I see you're in VA, how'd you end up with km/h speedo?

I'm originally from Europe, so more used to metric. Though I get miles way better than Fahrenheit :D

mladen

12-29-2022, 12:19 PM

Called Mike Forte about the midshift kit for the TKX and place an order for it. It's about $480. He suggested I install it while the engine is out, so I'll wait to do that before proceeding with dropping the engine in. I still have a lot of behind-the-dash wiring to complete so plenty of work to do in the meantime. EDIT 2: Mike shared these instructions (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JWH4EYDJ9NO0ZpwSBiocTTHpC65ClnP4/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=104691775092288760149&rtpof=true&sd=true) with me that were compiled by another builder.

EDIT: I proceeded with electrical work in the meantime, namely wanted to hook up my USB charger, and then I discovered that I forgot to run the wires for it... I first thought about splicing into the lines I sent back for the trunk lights, but I used 18awg for that, or maybe hooking into the feed for one of the seat heaters, but that could be much for the fuse I planned if both are on at the same time. Plus, I already dedicated a fuse for the USB charger in my new fusebox :) so I said screw it and undid the loom, drilled out some rivets, ran new wires, and rewrapped everything. Hopefully, I didn't forget anything else. It did however get me to notice an mistake I made with the 12v feed for the trunk lights which is that I ran them directly to the distribution block instead of their spot in the fusebox. So I fixed that as well.

Also, since I'll be going with blue paint and cream interior, I ordered seatbelts in blue ones from Summit and they came yesterday.

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mladen

12-31-2022, 11:42 PM

edwardb

01-01-2023, 07:11 AM

Maybe I shouldn't have been working on New Year's eve. Had a mishap, which is a fluid leak at the rear end of the clutch master cylinder, which means fluid leaked onto and through the fuse box. At the bottom of the footbox was a puddle the size of a few quarters. So, how much trouble am I in here? It wasn't connected to the battery, but I know brake fluid is corrosive to paint and absorbs moisture, so will become conductive at some point. I tried to wipe of as much as possible, and took all the fuses out and wiped them as well. Should I be doing something more drastic here?

Yeah, I hate that stuff too. I would try to flush out your fuse panel maybe with isopropyl alcohol. Or maybe some spray contact cleaner. You could test to see if either dissolves brake fluid. My main experience with brake fluid is when it spills, get it cleaned up as soon as possible. The damage can be limited it not left too long. I suspect you should be fine if flushed out.

mladen

01-01-2023, 08:43 AM

Edit: (duplicate post)

mladen

01-01-2023, 10:07 AM

Internet suggests that brake fluid is very water soluble and general cleaning involves a wash and a little bit of soap. So, here's some original content you don't see often, pouring 2 gallons of distilled water on the fuse panel :D

https://youtube.com/shorts/K4a6PqXduJs

mladen

01-04-2023, 07:56 PM

Continuing to make progress, even though I'm working on multiple things at once. I really lose focus easily. Sometimes when I'm working on one thing and I walk to the bench to grab a tool or something, I'd spot something on the car and then start working on that... :/

Anyway, as I mentioned in the other thread (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?44860-TKX-MidShift-Kit-Installed-(Fortes-Parts)), I ordered the mid shift kit from Mike Forte, came super quick, 3 days or something like that. I followed these instructions (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JWH4EYDJ9NO0ZpwSBiocTTHpC65ClnP4/edit?rtpof=true) Mike sent over (they are from another builder). Worked really well. Took me about an hour to do the whole thing, mostly because I was nervous about dropping a pin into the transmission. Can be done in 15 minutes easily.

I first removed the old shifter and put the cover plate on. This was a mistake as I'll explain why later.

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Once you open up the front compartment you'll see 4 selectors (left, right, center, and lower), and will start by removing the center selector. I used a punch to remove the pin and did slow little by little until the selector could rotate a bit around the rod. Once you get there, STOP. In the instructions, you'll see them moving this selector toward the rear to remove it. I couldn't do this, so I assumed I had to push the pin out more, and I proceeded to do it until it dropped out on the other end. Luckily, I put a paper towel below, and it stayed there where I could fish it out with a magnet. To be able to move the center selector to the rear, you need to move the lower selector as well. This is most easily done simply by pushing the shifter lever forward. This is why you should wait until the end to remove it. Once you retract the rear selector, you'll still need to push the center rod forward a bit (as instructed) to get the selector out.

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After that, you need to remove the lower selector. To make room, as instructed, tap out the pins for the left and right selectors, just enough until they can rotate around. For the left selector, I could just slide it forward and then rotate it to expose the pin. There is a specific groove through which it will go, so keep rotating until you find it. It's very close to the original center position. The right selector did not want to slide forward so I had to slide the rod forward a bit as the instructions mentioned. The center punches I have are not super strong so to not brake it (and have it fall into the transmission) I put a screwdriver in between the lower and right selector, then pulled back on the shift lever slowly until it moved forward just enough to release it. After you remove both of the pins, rotate the left and right selectors up, and then start punching out the pin on the lower selector. Once it can start wiggling, simply push the shift lever all the way forward and the selector will slide off. Then, make sure the left/right selectors are still rotated up, and move them all the way to the rear, this will give you enough room to wiggle out the lower selector.

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Then just use the new center selector, put the three pins back into place, and that's pretty much it. One note, I didn't receive new bolts from Mike for the cover plate, I just used the bolts that came with the original shifter. Easy peasy.

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In other work, I received the new, shorter, fuel lines and have installed them too.

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mladen

01-04-2023, 08:06 PM

I also continued wiring things in the cockpit, while I wait for the gauges to be back from Speedhut. I installed these door jamb switches (https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B000IYU3DC?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details) and wired them so either of the two or the switch in the dash will turn on the courtesy lights.

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I used a Q size drill bit to enlarge the hole in the bracket and tapped 3/8-24 threads that the switches need. You'll notice on the right side because the switch is long and the little aluminum plate interferes, I drilled a hole and routed the wires from the back. I'm not the happiest with that solution, but it doesn't touch anything when the switch is engaged. I may rethink this one down the road.

I decide to proceed with putting the seat heater, air intake, and fan controls on the sides. I think I'll have just enough room for it there even though it will be a bit cramped, so I wired the fan switches to be located there. I'm wiring these inline LED dimmers (https://www.superbrightleds.com/single-color-led-controller-with-dynamic-modes-mld-5a) for all the custom billet switches as they are super bright.

Still to be done, wiring for the heaters. I'm waiting for a custom 3d printed case for the Pico controller to pack it all in first. I also need to figure out a location for the heater controller on the dash. I overlooked it when I drilled out the holes for the lights, so now if I put it after them on the right it will actually be where the heater is and could be a problem for the cable to go through. I may move it above the light switches.

mladen

01-05-2023, 08:08 PM

The way to tell when I'm procrastinating is that I start doing random small or unrelated things. Having said that, I finally set up a new pegboard to hold the complete set of metric and SAE wrenches from Gearwrench that I bought a few months back :)

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On the elephant in the garage, I've been thinking about how to pick the engine up to install it, and I see it has these two brackets on it from Bleuprint, one rear left and the other front right. Can I use them to hook the engine hoist on? Is that what they are for? If so, do folks remove them once install is complete or leave them in in case they have to take the engine out again for some reason?

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Namrups

01-05-2023, 08:45 PM

Use them to install the engine and then remove them. Put them away. They can be reattached if you need to remove the engine in the future.

mladen

01-28-2023, 10:18 PM

Big day today. The engine is finally in the chassis!

Overall, the process went fairly smoothly. We used a 2-ton engine crane, extended all the way, with a leveler, and lifted it out of the crate it came in.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178768&d=1674961887

The first step was to install the engine mounts, and that's where the first problem started. The mounts would not sit flush with the block due to, apparently, the support ridges that the Dart block has. A few quick searches suggested making notches in the mounts (NOT on the block), which is what we did. The following shows just how much misalignment there was on the holes, and how big of a notch we had to make to have it sit flush. I have to say, cutting into the mount does not feel super comfortable, hopefully, it's not compromised in any way. :(

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178766&d=1674961887
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178767&d=1674961887
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178763&d=1674961887
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178764&d=1674961887
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178765&d=1674961887

Once the notches were sufficient, proceeded with mounting the mounts (no pun intended). Second problem. The blots provided by FFR are too long and bottom out before the mounts are fully seated. Luckily, the blots that came from Blueprint and held the engine in the crate were of the right length and were a grade stronger to boot, so used those. As suggested in many places, we had the rear of the car on jack stands to make it easier for the transmission to go in, which did help, but created a new problem. Now the front 4" tubes were too low and the legs of the engine crane couldn't go under, so we used the jack to just barely lift the front too which worked.

mladen

01-28-2023, 10:21 PM

One thing that almost got us, and it would have been hard to correct at that point, was that we almost weren't able to clear the engine over the frame, because the chains were too long. I'd strongly suggest using as little chain as possible when picking up the engine.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178760&d=1674961887
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178761&d=1674961887
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178914&d=1674962466

Getting the engine into place was fairly easy for the two of us, slowly moving forward, and downward and reducing the angle little by little. The leveler was a bit hard to work with once we got it to that extreme angle, and in fact, we couldn't get it to move the other way, it would just spin and skip, so my neighbor lifted the transmission end to alleviate some of the pressure from its weight, which made it possible to crank the leveler the other way again. Also as suggested elsewhere, I did not torque the bolts on the mounts to the engine fully to allow wiggle room. I want to make sure that everything is aligned well before doing that.

Since I'm still waiting for the driveshaft, it will be a bit before I can do final adjustments, pinion angle, for which these (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?22594-Driveline-Setup-(aka-Pinion-Angle)) two (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35320-Pinion-Angle-Yes-again) threads come recommended.

On the other hand, I'm still regretting getting the firewall forward. It's a great piece, but I don't need the space behind the dash, and now the valve cover is so close to the heater that there is no room for the 90-degree elbows. :( One suggestion I got was to desolder the pipes from the heater core, shorten them, and then solder them again. Can't say I've ever done this, but willing to give it a try if I don't find a more elegant (read: easier) solution.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178759&d=1674961887

There are lot's of things for me to do still. I moved on the setting up the handbrake for which I just got the Gordon Levy kit. Turns out, I'm missing the lower e-brake handle. It's not in the kit and I probably mistook one of the other parts for it when doing inventory. Reached out to FFR to see if I can get one. Since I'm stuck there I'll probably move on to setting up the radiator, I have the breeze kit for that, so should be fun, and getting this thing looking like a car more and more.

mladen

01-29-2023, 08:14 PM

I spent the day trying to "finalize" the position of the engine, which meant relieving some of the weight again with the crane and torquing down the mounts to the block. This made returning it to where both the locator pins align... quite difficult. After about an hour of messing about it finally sat in. I also measured the alignment of the engine to the chassis, and it is 1.5 degrees higher on the driver's side. Not sure what will happen with this once the headers and body are in place, but fingers crossed that it's fine. :p

I happened to notice two clecos that were holding some of the wiring in place. Man, was it difficult riveting with the engine in. For a split second, I contemplated just leaving the clecos in :D :D

I connected my spare ground to the starter mounting bolt and connected the starter solenoid wires. Would love for someone to check my work here because I don't see instructions for this in the package I got from BPE.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178965&d=1675040613

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178966&d=1675040613

I also remove the heater to attempt to mitigate the clearance issue with the tubes, and in the process damaged the tubes beyond where I'm comfortable with them now, so I took the heater apart and reached out to Vintage Air to see if I can just get a replacement radiator. I could try and braze new copper pipes onto it. I've never done it, but may be worth a try, I can't damage it more than it already is.

I also set up the fuel lines. I went with Evil Energy on Amazon. So far really happy with their fittings and hoses. Really easy to set up, look great, and seem high quality.

Nigel Allen

01-29-2023, 10:33 PM

mladen

01-29-2023, 11:37 PM

Starter wiring and ground looks good to me, good clean connections. Dont forget to run a ground to the chassis as well. Either from the battery to chassis, or engine block to chassis, just make sure it is clean and solid.

Cheers,

Nigel

Thank you! I have the starter grounded to the chassis near the engine mount bracket, the battery to the chassis next to the round crossmember, and the block directly to the battery as suggested by BPE.

Nigel Allen

01-30-2023, 12:31 AM

Perfect!

facultyofmusic

01-30-2023, 01:02 AM

mladen

02-04-2023, 07:04 PM

Next update. I did a bunch of stuff, but not much I can call complete. Keep getting stuck in various places either by having questions, missing parts, or having to repair things.

First up, I installed the rear trunk aluminum and drop trunk. It's clecoed here but I have glued and riveted it in place. Similarly, the rear harness has been routed and fastened. I'm not going to do more until I can run the engine and do a test drive. If there are any leaks with fuel or brake lines, it will be a lot easier to fix without the aluminum in place.

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I finally completed the fuel lines and they are now hooked up to the engine. I have a fitting in place that allows me to connect a pressure gauge. Once I confirm that everything is, hopefully, working ok, I'll remove that. I also installed the radiator using the Breeze upper and lower mounts, and it was, dare I say, a breeze :D One thing to note here, I deviated slightly from Mark's instructions. I first drilled the two big holes for the fan shroud and then drilled the ones for rivetting the hinge to the radiator. The flanges on the radiator I have have no holes in them, and from all the other photos I saw in other threads, it seems like earlier versions of the radiator may have had some holes predrilled which potentially avoided this issue.

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I also did a dry fit for the Breeze lower radiator hose. I had to trim quite a lot, around 2", of the rubber hoses, but it fits really nicely. Once I had it in place I did some manual polishing to bring the shine out, but nothing too fancy. I also use Mark's bracket for securing the lower hose.

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mladen

02-04-2023, 07:20 PM

Moving to the top side of the radiator is where I got stuck. I realized that the thermostat housing I have is angled at 45 degrees, which would make attaching any tube difficult, and wouldn't work with the Boig upper tube I ended up ordering. So I removed it to replace it with a 90-degree one, which is where problems started.

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I removed the one that came with the engine from BPE, and the screw took out a few threads along with it. Trying, even by hand to screw it again took more threads out :( Additionally, the replacement housing I got from CJPony (https://www.cjponyparts.com/thermostat-housing-aluminum-chrome-o-ring-style-mustang-5-0l-1979-1995/p/TH45/?utm_source=Pony&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=OrderConfirmation&lac_guid=655dfc99-78a2-ed11-8375-0050568ba4b7) ended up not being a fit because it doesn't have a recess for the thermostat to sit in. So I ordered another one, this time from Canton (https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B005JV7BQ6?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details) which based on the price should be of much higher quality. While I wait for that I also bought helicoils to drill out and repair the threads, but that is also partially done as the helicoil kit doesn't come with a bottoming STI tap, which I need since it's a blind hole. Because the hole is not easily accessible I had to use a socket wrench and an extender to be able to reach it.

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The other part related to cooling is the temp sensor for the gauge. The one that comes with the gauges is 1/8" NPT and comes with a 3/8" bushing. The hole in the manifold though is 1/2". So I had to order some brass fittings. I also have a heater so I needed this Tee (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B086GG1TFX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1). One side of that Tee will house the new 1/2 to 1/8 bushing and temp sensor, the other a 1/2 to 5/8 hose barb that will go to the heater bypass valve.

In other small updates, I received the Wilwood e-brake kit from Gordon Levy and will be installing that soon. Also, the driveshaft I was missing from the kit has arrived. That will go in after I figure out how to measure and set the pinion angle. I've read for hours all the various threads, and I now know so much about the theory of it, but not a lot about how to actually measure it, where to put the protractor and such, does the car have to be on the ground or can it be on jack stands, etc. More on that later.

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Nigel Allen

02-04-2023, 07:34 PM

mladen

02-04-2023, 07:53 PM

Since I got stuck on cooling, I thought I'd proceed with EFI wiring. I have to admit, this was very daunting and confusing at first. The Wiring Harness manual literally has 4 lines when it comes to the EFI, and instructions from BPE are just a collection of instructions for all the individual components. They are great, but don't really tell you how to mate the engine with RF harness. Except, those two pages called the Holley Sniper Installation Supplement. That is where most of the stuff is. Reading the long version (https://documents.holley.com/199r11031r.pdf) of the Sniper EFI instructions helped a lot as well. There is a little longer thread (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?45177-EFI-wiring-and-engine-hookups-check-my-work) here where a lot of folks chimed in and helped me with the questions I had, but at the end here is where I landed:

10-Pin Connector: I only need the Light Blue wire, connected to the Green Fan wire from the RF harness. I de-pinned the rest from the loom that came with Sniper. Looks super funny with a giant connector with just one wire in it :) I've ordered some cavity plugs (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NVJ00AW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1) to seal the holes where the other wires have been.

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7-Pin Connector is a bit more involved, and there are options to consider
- Red > Battery (+)
- Black > Battery (-)
- Blue > Controls the fuel pump
- Violet > n/a
- Dark Green > n/a
- Yellow > Coil (-)
- Pink > Tan Electric Choke wire in RF harness. I was too hasty when plumbing the harness and removed this wire thinking I won't need it. I need to re-pin into the connector and wire it through

The fuel pump. What you get with the Sniper is a loom that takes the thin Blue wire from the plug, which is Ground signal, and connects through a relay in the loom, and then exits as a thick Blue wire which is now 12v +. There are several things you can do:

1. Run that thick Blue wire directly to the fuel pump and have the EFI control it. If you do this, you can remove or just cap off the tan wire from the RF harness, and remove the fuse from the panel. It does put the inertia switch out of the loop, so you'd have to figure out how to wire it in if you want to use it
2. Run the thick Blue wire behind the dash, and repin the connector going to the rear harness to have this blue wire continue into the Tan wire in the rear harness. As with #1, you'll have to figure out the inertia switch
3. (the option the Wiring Harness manual suggests) take the thick Blue wire to the fuse panel, cut the Orange wire going into the relay for the fuel pump, and connect the thick Blue wire to the orange wire that goes into the relay. In this case, the inertia switch functionality is preserved, but you have a relay controlling another relay. Nothing technically wrong with that but a bit superfluous
4. (the option I'm going with) I like to minimize the wires going around, and this loom is quite chunky, so I dissected it, and removed the relay and the thick blue wire completely. This means that I now only have the thin Blue wire (-). I am taking this through the firewall, and connecting it to the Ground side of the inertia switch. This way I preserve the original functionality, have a smaller loom in the engine compartment, and I don't make any changes to the fuse panel

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One more thing needs to get power in my case, and that's the coil. What I will be using for this is the Orange `Coil or EFI` wire from the RF harness.

I also learned that I do not need to use the Coil Ignition Driver device that I got from BPE, which confused me a bit as to what kind of distributor I have.

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When I started all this, these were the wires I had going into the engine compartment (that I thought I'd need, hence missing the Electric Choke wire)

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Since starting, I have learned that I can also remove the following:

- Light Blue Oil Temp and Gray Oil Pressure, plus corresponding ground wires. The reason being that the RF harness expects a two-wire oil pressure sensor, and the Vintage Gauges from Speedhut come with a three-wire sensor. Solution: just chuck the wires mentioned and use the wire that came with the gauges. Of course, if you are not planning to use an oil temperature gauge. There is a way to use the Temp and Pressure wires from the RF harness together to wire the three-wire sensor, but I found it easier to just get rid of them and use the wires provided with the gauges.
- Green and Light Gray speedo wires. The gauges I have use GPS so these two are not needed. Nor is the speed sensor that comes with the gauges. Of course, this is for my setup. Sniper does not need this signal. Some others might.
- Light Blue EFI Crank. Sniper gets this info from the coil, so I removed this from the RF harness

I love removing wires. The fewer the better. There is one more wire to talk about. The purple Tach wire in the RF harness. That one hooks up to the Gray pigtail coming out of the distributor.

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That's my wiring figured out. I am, of course, stuck, since I'm waiting for a crimping tool for weather pack connectors, as I just now realized they need a special tool.

mladen

02-04-2023, 07:54 PM

If you can't get your hands on a bottoming tap, just grind some of the end off of the current taper tap that you have already.
Cutting fluid is your friend. Then use some solvent and compressed air to release the chips.

Hope it goes well.

Cheers, Nige

Yeah. Someone mentioned that in the Answers section on Amazon :) I did manage to find the specific tap, coming in a day or two, so decided to wait and preserve the other tap. I'm still waiting on the new thermostat housing and some other fittings, so have to wait anyways to make progress on cooling.

mladen

02-04-2023, 08:03 PM

Since I'm now stuck on wiring too. I decided to move elsewhere, which would be power steering. This went more smoothly though. I got the connector kit from Breeze which made this very easy.

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Because I have that recess around the holes, I couldn't use the washers that Mark provides. Luckily there is a chamfer for the O-rings. They were a bit rough so I used some sandpaper to roughly sand them smooth so they don't damage the O-rings.

Oh, and by the way, I realized that my car needs a $hit ton more fluids that apparently I have to provide it with... So I ordered Honda PS fluid (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AVOAUN2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) that many on the forum recommend.
Tremec HP MTF (https://www.tremec-store.com/products/tremec-hp-mtf-transmission-fluid) for the TKX. My understanding is that I need to add this after I install the driveshaft.

So now I'll have PS, transmission, diff (which I already added), engine oil, coolant, brakes, clutch (same as for brakes). Hopefully, that's all. Oh, and stuff in the gas tank, of course :)

mladen

02-07-2023, 05:41 PM

I moved on to buttoning up some things while I wait for parts/tools.

I tightened the fuel tank in its final place. I see that some folks ran a charcoal filter from the breather tube. Not sure if I'll do that. May try without it first and see if there are any fuel odor issues. I did replace the filler neck gasket as others have mentioned that the OEM Ford one is much better.

The crimper for weatherpack connectors arrived and I managed to almost completely finalize all the wiring on the engine side. I bunched up the wires over the passenger footbox to try and get it out of sight as much as possible.

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I do have to install the temp sensor for the gauge but waiting on some fittings as I need to hook up a hose for the heater as well. Hole is 1/2 NPT. I got a FFM Tee fitting, but it can't clear the manifold to tighten down. I'm now waiting for a FFF fitting and 1/2 npt nipple that will move it up a bit so it can clear the manifold. That should hopefully arrive today.

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I went to install the spacer kit from Mike Forte for the transmission mount, but despite what the person on the phone (not Mike) said, the TKO kit does not fit the TKX mount. The holes on the spacers are way too wide, and the bolts too big. I got new longer bolts 2", 7/16-14 and everything tightened down nicely. Then I drilled a hole in the spacers so it would fit. I did measure the pinion angle, as Jeff Kleiner suggested, by placing the angle finder vertically on the crank pulley and the front of the diff where the driveshaft attaches. If I jack the transmission up all the way where the shifter touches the cross brace, I end up with 1.3 degrees, and with 3/4" of spacers it is 1.7 degrees, which I settled for.

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Lastly, wanted to give a shout-out to Namrups who sent me the alignment jig for installing the NRG steering quick release. Once I set it up I will gladly send them to the next person that needs them.

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mladen

02-07-2023, 09:40 PM

New thermostat housing has arrived, along with the bottoming tap I needed to finish installing the helicoil threads. Installed the new threads, but turns out the housing doesn't come with a gasket, so had to make a trip to the store. After a long wait, it's installed and set up (we'll see if it leaks though :D ) It does look great though.

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I also got the new brass fittings and installed the sensor plus heater outlet. I ended up backing it out by just under a quarter turn so the barb faces between the alternator and the valve cover, so I can route the hose along the side. Hopefully, this doesn't create a leak, as I don't think I can tighten it one full turn without damaging the threads on the intake manifold. Also, the temp sensor is at the top and sticks near the distributor. Unsure if this will create interference. Will have to wait and see.

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Next up. Fixing the heater I broke. Looks like Vintage Air will be able to sell me a new radiator core. Need to add the clutch line and bleed it. Forte's throttle linkage. And I think I'm ready to try and crank the engine. There are only so many things I can do before I can no longer avoid installing the heat/sound insulation which I'm kinda dreading for fear of messing it up with that contact cement.

John Ibele

02-08-2023, 10:55 AM

Good progress, and solid recovery on the threads that gave up. I had many of the same challenges you mentioned in relation to the Sniper wiring - simple on the face of it, and as described by the instructions. But lots of wires, many different options for how to route things, the desire to keep things clean looking ... makes it non-trivial in practice. That last part (keeping things clean) was something I felt partially successful at, at best. There's just a lot of loom to deal with. But - there's a reason there's a hood :p

Interesting that our castings are very similar, but you don't have an additional boss where I put my second temp sensor next to the heater hose connection. I think you'd get a better temp reading that way; flow could be stagnant in that fitting with the heater not on. Is your Holley sensor on the other side, and directly threaded into the intake manifold? That would be best in terms of accurate reading for engine cooling I would think. Something to check. Worst case, could offset the fan trigger temp by the difference in readings between the sensors. I plan to check that offset next time I warm up my engine (not something I'm keen on during MN winter weather).

Any thoughts on using carpet adhesive? Not sure if you can do that with your next steps, but I had great experience using it for carpet and trunk liner. Good luck and great progress. Looking good.

PS - full disclosure, just so I don't confuse you ... that's actually my SpeedHut gauge sensor hooked up to the Sniper. Don't do that :rolleyes:. That Sniper connector now goes across the engine to the Holley sensor tapped in the DS side of the intake. And my gauge connection crosses over to the PS side to hook up to the SpeedHut sensor you see next to the heater hose.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52209542553_734de5e090_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nxzy3M)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nxzy3M) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

mladen

02-08-2023, 12:42 PM

Good progress, and solid recovery on the threads that gave up. I had many of the same challenges you mentioned in relation to the Sniper wiring - simple on the face of it, and as described by the instructions. But lots of wires, many different options for how to route things, the desire to keep things clean looking ... makes it non-trivial in practice. That last part (keeping things clean) was something I felt partially successful at, at best. There's just a lot of loom to deal with. But - there's a reason there's a hood :p

Interesting that our castings are very similar, but you don't have an additional boss where I put my second temp sensor next to the heater hose connection. I think you'd get a better temp reading that way; flow could be stagnant in that fitting with the heater not on. Is your Holley sensor on the other side, and directly threaded into the intake manifold? That would be best in terms of accurate reading for engine cooling I would think. Something to check. Worst case, could offset the fan trigger temp by the difference in readings between the sensors. I plan to check that offset next time I warm up my engine (not something I'm keen on during MN winter weather).

Any thoughts on using carpet adhesive? Not sure if you can do that with your next steps, but I had great experience using it for carpet and trunk liner. Good luck and great progress. Looking good.

PS - full disclosure, just so I don't confuse you ... that's actually my SpeedHut gauge sensor hooked up to the Sniper. Don't do that :rolleyes:. That Sniper connector now goes across the engine to the Holley sensor tapped in the DS side of the intake. And my gauge connection crosses over to the PS side to hook up to the SpeedHut sensor you see next to the heater hose.

That's a nice-looking setup! And great to have the additional port for the heater. I'm not a fan of my home-made plumber look :) Thank you for the suggestions. I'll definitely keep an eye out for potential differences between the temp gauge reading and what the EFI is doing with the fan. And you're right, EFI has a sensor on the driver's side.

mladen

02-08-2023, 09:45 PM

Long and difficult day today, both from the perspective of trying to get things done, to actually physically being difficult. I spent about 9 hours in the garage today, most of them lying on the ground beneath the car, 4 of those fidgeting with the drive shaft, as you can read more details about in this thread (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?45229-IRS-drive-shaft-install). After trying every trick in the book, I eventually had to lift the engine up (again, 5th time) which angled the rear of the transmission downward and I was able to slide the driveshaft in with ease. It does mean though that I had to unbolt the engine mounts, so I have new nuts on order from Breeze. I wish I knew about this at the beginning. Two things I would DEFINITELY do differently:

1. Install the driveshaft adapter plate before installing the diff in the car. EDIT: Actually, scratch this one. This would be very hard to do without the diff spinning. I had to have someone sit in the car and press the brakes while I torqued the bolts. Would be nice to have a car lift in the garage for sure... :(
2. Install the driveshaft into the transmission before fully dropping the engine and transmission in (but definitely measure the angle of the diff for pinion measurements before you do)

Speaking of pinion angle, somehow after I finished everything, even though I used the same spacers, I ended up worse than before. While before I had 1.3 degrees, now I have 2. Not ure how that happened. Maybe the engine is sitting in the mounts slightly differently. Still in spec, so I guess ok.

Here are some photos of the struggle. Holding this thing above my head for 4 hours... I'm definitely going to feel that tomorrow, and the day after.

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The crane is back in action, and finally, the shaft is in place!

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mladen

02-08-2023, 09:55 PM

After installing the driveshaft I moved to prepping to install the Gordon Levy parking brake kit, which comes as a brake plate that goes between the drive shaft and the adapter plate on the diff. I couldn't seem to find the 4 shorter bolts, but luckily FFR sent 10 of the longer ones (6 go to attaching the adapter plate). Usually these longer ones wouldn't work as they'd bottom out, but I have the brake plate to give just enough extra room so they work. I could only get to them with the little hand wrench, so I added red loctite and did my best by hand. Hopefully it doesn't fall off :)

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If it does, that's also why I installed a drive shaft loop. I went with Metco (https://metcomotorsports.com/mdl2500). Not cheap, but doesn't require any drilling or modification. But, at first, it looked like it would not fit, as the holes for the transmission mount on my TKX didn't align. I then realized that I could get more space if I move the bracket forward, which I couldn't do due to my aerospace trick of mounting the bolt from the top. Well, undo that, put the bolt from the bottom so it's more flush and the Metco bracket clears it fine.

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Looking from the top, the safety loop also ended up acting as a barrier between my wiring and the drive shaft, a nice freebie.

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As a last step before calling it a night, I positioned the parking brake bracket and caliper in place and punched the locations for the holes. Will need to drill those out tomorrow and get it into place, then onto figuring out what to do with the cable.

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Side note, the replacement heater radiator core has been ordered. $66 +$35 shipping. Ouch. Live and learn though.

mladen

02-09-2023, 07:58 PM

I did some odds and ends today.

Added Tremec HP-MTF (https://www.tremec-store.com/products/tremec-hp-mtf-transmission-fluid) into the transmission. The manual says it needs about 2.75 quarts, but mine took a full 3 quarts before I could see/touch the fluid with my finger, as they mention. I also added one bottle of Honda power steering fluid. It should take two, but the fluid isn't moving much from the filler cap even when I turn the wheels, so I'll see where it is when the pump starts.

Edit: Removing the filler plug and filling the oil is actually very easy from the PS cabin through the e brake opening. Luckily I haven’t finished installing it yet :D

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The inside of my tires hit the F panels, so I removed the bellows on the inside end and added the Breeze travel limiters. Really easy to clip on and get into place. The clamp there is single-use, so I replaced them with a hefty zip tie. The travel is much better now. The passenger side clears the panel well. DS is not touching, but close enough that those little rubber thingies on the new tire make contact when it rotates. But both have some noticeable toe-out, especially DS side, so should be better once aligned. If not, I can always add more travel limiters.

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I did a dry fit of my dash and gauges. Enlarged the opening for the steering column so the RT turn signal fits. Looking good so far. Except, the holes I drilled for mounting brackets interfere in two places with the gauges. Should have waited to do that.

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mladen

02-12-2023, 10:23 PM

Continued...

I also did a bunch of work around the dash. Namely drilled holes for the heater controls, new holes for the light switch and heater switch (at the sides of the old light switch hole which will be patched), and I drilled 3 holes above the steering wheel for turn signal and high beam lights. Some have mentioned that the ones in the gauges are really hard to see during the day, plus my speedo will be partially obscured by the steering wheel, so going with that. I also bent the edges but haven't yet drilled holes for the air intake fan and vent pulls, but decided that I will go for it as planned.

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I also installed the Mike Forte throttle linkage. Similar to many others, the inside part hits the aluminum at the top, so I decided to orient it downwards. It took some finagling on the inside to get it where it doesn't hit the pedal bracket nor the outside aluminum, but it's possible. I also have the RT pedal hit the 3/4 cross bar just before the throttle bracket on the EFI reaches full open. Overall fairly easy, even though when you shorten the rods you have to drill out a hole and tap new threads, it wasn't difficult to do.

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Those two springs that come with the linkage kit, was I supposed to use them like this to ensure the throttle returns to the closed position?

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And lastly, I drilled out a hole for the shifter (which is a shifter forward kit from Forte). I think I made the hole way too small. There's no way to reach the lower screw to mount the shift lever. Will have to make that bigger. I could install the lever first and then put the aluminum over it, but if anything needs to be serviced after that, I'll be in a pickle.

mladen

02-12-2023, 10:49 PM

Ok, there's definitely a bug that deletes a post if you try to edit it on the mobile version of the website :(

Here's what was there before the post above this one:

Lots of odds and ends today. Bunch of fluid work today. I added oil to the engine. Primed the filter first (and replaced the one that was on the engine with a new one). Looks like during dyno they used some oil that is more orange in color. The break-in oil from BPE has this amazing deep blue color. I added 8 quarts total. The manual says 8+whatever is in the filter, so it will need a bit more after I start it. Just so I didn't make a catastrophic mistake, this thing on the DS valve cover is the oil filler, right? :)

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I also added coolant. Not sure how much to add really. I think BPE someplace said to have the hose off the thermostat housing and keep filling until you see fluid there, but how am I going to see it with the thermostat closed?! And my filler is on the boig tube and the fluid goes in both directions, so I can't really do that. Anyway, I added a total of 3 gallons to the car. Will add some more to the overflow tank once it's installed and see what happens. I have 3 more gallons in stock. I did forget about the other port on the pump, so I had a bit of a leak after I returned to the garage after dinner. Oops.

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I did a dry fit of the PS header to see if everything aligns and all that. I did realize that the gasket I bought (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-1415) is not a fit. I had BPE stickers over the holes and they hid the other set of bolt holes. So I probably need this gasket (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1487/make/ford). The headers though only have holes for one set, not for both. I also noticed two potential issues. First, my fuel lines are way to close to the headers. I'll need to move them as much as possible toward the footbox, which right now isn't possible because the fittings clash. I'll probably have to make an S bend in one of them to clear it. The other is that the header doesn't sit perfectly flush against the header. Hopefully, this is where the gasket will come in.

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I also did a dry fit for the Kirkey seat. The raised sides make it really hard to get out of. Has anyone maybe trimmer the sides on these before?

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What i wanted to add when I tristo edit was to note that the Boig tube doesn't come with a filler cap. I used the one I got in the kit, temporarily, and have oreded a nice billet version. Also, they come with two peices of rubber hose, straight and 90 degree. The straight piece doesn't really work, perhaps the new ffr radiator is siffo, but there was a slight downward angle from the radiator to the hose, so I bought this piece (https://a.co/d/6kwk5gX) and cut the slightly angled bend and used that.

Jeff Kleiner

02-13-2023, 08:13 AM

All of your photo attachments are invalid.

Jeff

mladen

02-13-2023, 09:06 AM

All of your photo attachments are invalid.

Jeff

Uploaded images again to fix.

mladen

02-13-2023, 10:06 PM

So, I fixed the heater... that I broke.

Here's the original radiator that I professionally modified

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I got the new one from Vintage Air today. I shortened the pipes with these copper pipe cutters (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-1-2-in-Close-Quarters-Tubing-Cutter-48-22-4260/300621828) that I had. I then installed these compression fittings (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-5-8-in-OD-Compression-x-1-2-in-MIP-Brass-Adapter-Fitting-801099/207176829). Do note that the nominal size of the pipe is 1/2. However, the fittings refer to the outside diameter, so you need a 5/8 OD to 1/2 MNTP fitting.

Next step, which you wont need to do if you don't bork it like me and have to take apart the whole thing, was to put it back together. I used some of the red high-temp sealant I had from before to liberally, very very liberally, glue the thing together. We'll see how it goes.

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Looking at it now, I'd definitely do this mod in the future even if there wasn't a clearance issue. The pipes coming out are already too long, and then you add those elbows, looks funny.

Nigel Allen

02-13-2023, 10:38 PM

Nice fix. I also didn't like the pipe length and right angle extensions, so like you I chopped them off. Then soldered barbs onto the pipes. Was able to find heater hoses with right angle bends at the ends, much neater. Happy days.

mladen

02-14-2023, 09:15 PM

Still messing with the heater... Not a big update, but the shifter knob just arrived. It matches what the car will be painted like (not exactly that shade), but looks super nice

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facultyofmusic

02-15-2023, 01:40 AM

Sorry to hear you're having so much trouble with the heater man. Hang in there! I'm sure future builders would thank you for the documentation you provide on getting the heater to work with the fire-wall forward mod. :)

mladen

02-18-2023, 08:28 PM

Continued update on my heater situation. First, the compression fittings did not work! They don't engage with the pipe enough to stay securely on. I did get a recommendation from another forum member to use Earl's beader tool to roll a bead and just use a 90-degree hose. So I changed my plans to do that, sounds much better, and has fewer fittings. Of course, it's me we're talking about so it won't be an easy or cheap adventure.

First. To have room for the compression fittings and the original 90-degree angle pipes, I had to shorten the pipes coming out of the radiator. And you probably see where this is going. Yes, they are too short to roll a bead onto. And yes, I did take apart the heater again and ordered yet another replacement radiator at a cost of $100. Then, the beader I bought goes by OD, not ID, which of course means that the one I bought, for about $70, is too small. So I ordered the other one too. Seriously can't wait to be done with things heater related.

I'm now waiting for the third radiator and the correct beader. But I did manage to make some progress with routing. I first had to switch the two inlets on the water pump, so that the thermostat bypass goes to the lower one, otherwise, the heater return hose would be hard to route from the alternator. I then routed both the send and return over the intake manifold, below that little metal plate that I have (removed in the second photo below)

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I located the bypass valve right in front of where the cable comes out of the firewall. I shortened the cable, made a few loops in it and lastly I used a dye to cut threads onto the post, and then added a washer and two nuts to hold the cable in place. I didn't want it slipping off that post. I also replaced the screw that holds onto the cable sheath. When I applied enough force so that the cable is fixed in place, the screw gave up, so I used a new screw and a nut to clamp it down. Oh, and definitely, DEFINITELY, make sure to cut the sheath before you coil the cable. If not, you will have to manually unwind it around the cable, and it will seem like the more you unwind the more there's still left to unwind, and your back will hurt because you're leaning over the car to reach, and you will be sad and annoyed with yourself for making such a dumb mistake and you will think that you deserve it for always rushing to do things without thinking them through.

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Overall I'm happy with how it turned out so far. One thing I'm still thinking about is how I could fix the hoses so they don't accidentally move up and interfere with the throttle linkage. Hard to see in the photos from above, there is about 1" to 1.5" clearance, but I'd still be happier knowing that there's no way they could move up. Any ideas are welcome.

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It's still not complete. As I said I'm waiting for a new radiator, beader, oh, and 2 more 90 degree hoses. Those things are crazy expensive. Basically, you can buy 8 miles of heater hose for 38 cents, but if you want a 3 ft piece with a bend in it, well that's going to be $25.

I also finished the clutch. My throwout bearing uses 4AN fittings, so I changed the fitting on the Wilwood MC and add a male 1/8 NPT to male 4AN, and used a 24" PTFE braided hose. The length was perfect for the hose going out the side of the DS foot box, below the throttle linkage. I don't have photos of it but I also added to pieces of heater hose over the braided hoses coming out the bell housing. Even though they are not making contact, this will make sure they don't rub and get damaged.

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Bleeding it was a bit of a pain. I say bleeding, it was more of a massacre. I followed the instructions here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgc7ApCMTGA). Basically, you have to submerge that whole fitting assembly into fluid, and then pump the pedal for all the bubbles to come out. Things I didn't consider:

1. As you do that, more and more fluid will go into the container in which you submerged the bleeder line. Which in my case, was sitting on top of a cardboard box, below the car which was on jack stands. Really inaccessible. I ended up spilling brake fluid, everywhere. That box was soaked. Luckily it didn't go through because that's where my Sniper parts and the programming unit were.
2. If that fitting assembly goes above the fluid line even a little, it will suck air up into the system, very audibly
3. Because the bleeder valve is always open, gravity will do it's thing, and if you just sit there plotting your next move, the fluid reservoir will empty, and it will take in air, and you will have to start all over. Luckily, I had enough brake fluid to finish the task.

In my thread on this topic, Papa mentioned that you can put some oil on the threads of that fitting and then use a hose from the bleeder nipple. I haven't tried it, but it would make this thing a whole lot easier.

Lastly, I tried to fit the DS header and ran into two issues. The first is that the holes don't align well. There are two bolts that just won't thread in. I'll have to enlarge the holes on the header flange a bit. The other issue, the header is really close to the oil filter, so much so that I probably won't be able to remove the filter. So I ordered a 90-degree adapter for the filter. Oh, and here's another classic mistake. For the bolts, I ordered Stage 8, 12 point, thinking that give the space is tight and I might have to use a stubby wrench, it will give me a more fine-grained option for movement. Well, yes, but... some of the bolts are so close to the pipes that you can't get a wrench on them. So I spent another $90 to order the 6-point version of the bolts...

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Jeff Kleiner

02-19-2023, 09:37 AM

...For the bolts, I ordered Stage 8, 12 point, thinking that give the space is tight and I might have to use a stubby wrench, it will give me a more fine-grained option for movement. Well, yes, but... some of the bolts are so close to the pipes that you can't get a wrench on them. So I spent another $90 to order the 6-point version of the bolts...

For future reference, both the 6 and 12 point have a 3/16 hex in the center that allows the use of an allen wrench or socket which is usually much easier.

Jeff

F500guy

02-19-2023, 09:56 AM

I would think for clutch bleeding it would make sense to make a big p-trap and route the line up to the dash area, then you can see when the bubbles stop coming out, and the bleed fitting will be submerged when you tighten it at the clutch, May take extra fitting or two and tubing. No kit yet to work on, but just an observation.

mladen

02-19-2023, 03:38 PM

For future reference, both the 6 and 12 point have a 3/16 hex in the center that allows the use of an allen wrench or socket which is usually much easier.

Jeff

The new ones I ordered do. Seems this model i have now doesn't.
Model #8933

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mladen

02-19-2023, 10:05 PM

Header update: mixed bag.

The passenger side went in without issues (not permanently yet), but on the driver's side, literally none of the holes would line up. If two do, the other three don't. I spent at least 6 hours on this, and had put the header in and taken in it out easily over 50 times. Each time grinding the holes little by little, hopefully without compromising the structure of the flange. Eventually, I managed to hand-thread all the bolts in, but it was absolutely grueling. That photo of the oil reservoir is condensation from my breath as I was keeled over constantly trying to get the bolts to align without locking on the flange. I'm not sure how sound it is at this point. I do have a couple of bolts where the hole is quite large and the heads of the bolts just barely hold on. I may get washers to put under all of them to be on the safe side. I did get 1" long bolts so hopefully, there's enough thread there to accommodate them too.

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I did catch one other issue. I noticed a small stain under the oil drain plug. It probably wasn't torqued to spec coming from BPE. Whatever the spec is. I found 18 ft-lb in various threads here so that's what I torqued it to. It was maybe 1/8 of a turn from it.

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I'm really close to starting the engine now. I need to wait for the new Stage 8 bolts and would be nice if the new heater radiator came in so I can finish that as well. Otherwise, I can temporarily just bridge the two outlets on the bypass valve. I did hook up the battery and turned the ignition. I can verify, by sound, that the fuel pump is working, and that the EFI programming unit turns on, and that my interior lights and door switches work :) I did it only for a few seconds, didn't want the pump running on an empty tank. I assume it wouldn't be good for it.

Nigel Allen

02-19-2023, 10:24 PM

mladen

02-22-2023, 06:16 PM

So far, no more oil leaks once I torqued down the drain bolt.

I finally managed to make some more progress on the build. Not without mishaps and false starts, of course. I bought this one M-6880-B50 (https://www.jegs.com/i/Ford-Performance/397/M-6880-B50/10002/-1) to my untrained eye it looked like a new version of the previous model, A50, now discontinued. Well, while it is an absolutely beautiful piece as you can see below, it doesn't just offset the filter by 90 degrees, it also changes the threads for 3/4-16 to M22x1.5. That larger thread size comes with a very short list of filters, none of which are the same size as the ones I got from BPE with the engine (around 3.7" diameter and 5.5" height). So, I was back to having to use a shorter filter, in which case using the adapter made no sense, it would just be a potential spot for a leek. I ended up calling BPE and they confirmed that a shorter version was fine. So instead of using HP-3001 and I used HP-2004, about 1.5" shorter, and I now have plenty of clearance to install and remove the filter with the headers in place.

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The other set of Stage 8 header bolts arrived, model 8913A (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/STG-8913A). As I mentioned earlier, the 12-point ones make it impossible to get a wrench on them for a few places that are close to the pipes. If anyone should happen to need a set of 8933 bolts (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/STG-8933), just send me a message, and they're yours for free.

So headers and side pipes are on. I happen to have this torque wrench (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H34BYM5/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1), and I'm pleased to say that with it I was able to reach and properly torque 7 of the 8 bolts on the passenger side, and 4 or 5 on the driver side. Thoroughly recommend it. I also installed the coolant overflow tank. Any problem with having it attached to the F panel directly? Doesn't seem like it would be too heavy for it.

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One more thing I'd do differently if I was doing this again would be to have my hard fuel lines reach above the passenger's footbox. I'm not sure how, and if, I'll be able to reach the fittings to remove the pressure gauge now that the headers are in. I may have to remove the headers.

I think I'm a few steps away from trying to start the engine. I have to finish the plumbing for the heater, but I can just short-circuit the bypass valve until that's sorted. I also have to wire the power for the dash. Am I missing anything? Oh, one last thing, BPE manual mentions that I should remove the spark plugs, and then dry crank the engine until I see oil pressure on the gauge. Can I do this with the spark plugs in place just the wires disconnected? They are awfully hard to reach and I'd rather not do it unless it's necessary.