Next cobra replica

[golfobsessed71@gmail.com]

Hello all, I have a question and not sure if this is the right place to ask... I was planning on posting on the cobra forum but apparently it has closed down.

I realize this is a FFR forum.

I have really enjoyed cobra replica ownership even though it's only been as of recent... I feel I will own one of some sort for a long time.
I have an MK4 that is loaded and all new, crate coyote, TKO 5 speed, IRS, vintage ac package, stereo, hydro ps pb, seat heaters, foot box fans etc. with a bit over 300 miles

I absolutely love the car but stated before I would like a bit more analog with sbf carburetor and not so many options (I know many think I'm crazy) I'm a little old school.

I am about to start looking at a few before making my decision, i will be looking at a few over the next few weeks then decide if I will put my car up for sale.

I love my FFR roadster, frankly been impressed with the drive and tightness of the car and had planned on sticking with FFR however there is a Backdraft for sale locally I am going to look at because... well it is local.

My car is not perfect but very nice, could use a few final tweaks and touches but pretty turn key, being a loaded car and a coyote non donor IRS MK4 build I feel I have a good idea of its worth.

Looking at a slightly older Backdraft on the low end of pricing I'm still about $20k more than I would think I would get for my car... is it worth it?

Are they worth it, in a similar world of non authentic builds are the Backdrafts that much better... I get some of the higher end and more authentic type builds or Shelby endorsed Superformance but I have a budget and most don't fit, frankly most backdrafts don't fit but again some are out there in the mid to upper $60s k.

Why the $20-$30k difference in advertised prices and is it really worth it, again I realize this is and FFR forum so if this is out of line let me know and I will delete it.

[GoDadGo]

Factory Five MK-4 Chassis Link:
https://www.factoryfive.com/galleries/mk4/mk4-roadster-chassis/

Back Draft Chassis Link:
Gee, they don't have a link to see their chassis on their website.
Hummmmm; Why Is That?

Speedmakers Factory Five Video:
#1 https://youtu.be/wVT6QHyBxDA
#2 https://youtu.be/GvkJ95X7Fio

Great Chassis, Great Suspension Options & American Made!

[mrmustang]

Hello all, I have a question and not sure if this is the right place to ask... I was planning on posting on the cobra forum but apparently it has closed down.

I realize this is a FFR forum.

I have really enjoyed cobra replica ownership even though it's only been as of recent... I feel I will own one of some sort for a long time.
I have an MK4 that is loaded and all new, crate coyote, TKO 5 speed, IRS, vintage ac package, stereo, hydro ps pb, seat heaters, foot box fans etc. with a bit over 300 miles

I absolutely love the car but stated before I would like a bit more analog with sbf carburetor and not so many options (I know many think I'm crazy) I'm a little old school.

I am about to start looking at a few before making my decision, i will be looking at a few over the next few weeks then decide if I will put my car up for sale.

I love my FFR roadster, frankly been impressed with the drive and tightness of the car and had planned on sticking with FFR however there is a Backdraft for sale locally I am going to look at because... well it is local.

My car is not perfect but very nice, could use a few final tweaks and touches but pretty turn key, being a loaded car and a coyote non donor IRS MK4 build I feel I have a good idea of its worth.

Looking at a slightly older Backdraft on the low end of pricing I'm still about $20k more than I would think I would get for my car... is it worth it?

Are they worth it, in a similar world of non authentic builds are the Backdrafts that much better... I get some of the higher end and more authentic type builds or Shelby endorsed Superformance but I have a budget and most don't fit, frankly most backdrafts don't fit but again some are out there in the mid to upper $60s k.

Why the $20-$30k difference in advertised prices and is it really worth it, again I realize this is and FFR forum so if this is out of line let me know and I will delete it.

Ask yourself why is the car you are looking at for sale at such a low price, then ask yourself if you are willing to accept the drawbacks of that specific car since it is less expensive than the car you already own. This could be another FFR, backdraft, SPF, ERA, Contemporary, or Kirkham for that matter. If the deal seems too good to be true, it usually is. Take a step back, a deep breath, and review everything in my "How to buy a used Cobra" posted as a sticky on the site, with the link in my sig below. Take someone else along who knows what they are looking at, ask for their personal opinion out of earshot of the seller.

As for Clubcobra being shut down, no, just server issues, I contact Brent late this afternoon, he may be traveling, which will make remote diagnostics of his server a bit difficult.

Bill S.

PS: Forget about the sales hype of one brand vs another, or one owners group vs another, and buy because you want to, not because someone else gave you a sales pitch using the "this vs that" tag line.

[AC Bill]

Forget about the sales hype of one brand vs another, or one owners group vs another, and buy because you want to, not because someone else gave you a sales pitch using the "this vs that" tag line.

I agree. You'd rarely see an honest criticism about a particular make, from a group that owns the said make. Nobody wants to think their car is inferior.
Used FFR prices were in the tank for many years. Finally we are seeing prices more realistic. I have no idea why prices would be higher for Backdraft's unless their owners wizened up sooner than FFR owners.:)

[golfobsessed71@gmail.com]

Ask yourself why is the car you are looking at for sale at such a low price, then ask yourself if you are willing to accept the drawbacks of that specific car since it is less expensive than the car you already own. This could be another FFR, backdraft, SPF, ERA, Contemporary, or Kirkham for that matter. If the deal seems too good to be true, it usually is. Take a step back, a deep breath, and review everything in my "How to buy a used Cobra" posted as a sticky on the site, with the link in my sig below. Take someone else along who knows what they are looking at, ask for their personal opinion out of earshot of the seller.

As for Clubcobra being shut down, no, just server issues, I contact Brent late this afternoon, he may be traveling, which will make remote diagnostics of his server a bit difficult.

Bill S.

PS: Forget about the sales hype of one brand vs another, or one owners group vs another, and buy because you want to, not because someone else gave you a sales pitch using the "this vs that" tag line.

Thanks Bill, I will read your article...

Not sure about some things like "deal too good to be true" I never said that... or "sales hype" there is no sales hype, just replicas advertised for what they are... I didn't set the prices and I follow them enough to know what they sell for in BAT or on their 5th unsold round on another venue.

I have been in the automotive collision industry over 35 years teaching and did oem certification for BASF for 16 years, building many muscle cars and in collision and automotive paint my whole career (currently do business development for collision centers nation wide) so when you say bring someone who knows what they are looking at I can recognize poor work, bad welds misaligned etc. so when I comes to the physical build I will be comfortable looking at anything, did plenty of PPIs for guys in the Viper forum locally.

However...

Is there something I'm unaware of when it comes to let's just say Backdraft in this case, I see them advertised from mid $60s to over $100k from private sellers. I don't always consider dealers good barometer as they tend to be overpriced for convenience or low end financing... i seen Vangard at Barrett Jackson buy a FFR 33 hotrod for $36k early this year and advertise it for $99k right after and sold

I've watched sales and prices for a long time and in the "fiberglass arena" there are cars that sit in the $45-$60k range as a manufacturer as well as $60k-$100k and $80k-$120k range (i know much higher as well) all with the same "blueprint" or "iconic" engines or configurations... OK some simulated knock offs vs pin drive but that doesn't appear to me to be enough for the difference in price ranges... is it because "home built" vs "factory" in South Africa?

I am also excluding the CSX continuations or ERA 427 side oiler high end replicas, that's a different arena than I'm talking about.

Let's take the last FFR coyote build that sold on BAT for $62.5... that quality build would be allot more in a different brand so why?

Is there something I'm not aware of in alloy, steel, fiberglass? maybe it's just perceived resale?

I am very happy with FFR for the most part... I found some strange design issues and product quality I didn't care for in both my roadster and my 33 hotrod but all in all very happy and wouldn't hesitate to buy again and recommend to anyone... I sometimes think "how can it get better" fast, comfortable, tight, no squeeks/rattles dependable and looks amazing so why does another brand of equal sell for an additional $20-$30k frankly I've seen lesser builds sell for more money in some cases.

I hope this question translates better and again I will post it on the cobra forum when it's back up.

I am looking at two maybe three FFR cars, two MK3s which I'm ok with other than the external dec lid hinges but I can change that, another MK4 and again the Backdraft as it's local "not too good to be true or with sales hype" they all just happen to be a bit more "traditional" drivetrain wise.

And again may not be the best place to ask a question about another cobra manufacturer... I would always prefer pay less for the equivalent so really wanted to know if there was something beyond equivalent I am unaware of (besides quality of build)

[golfobsessed71@gmail.com]

I agree. You'd rarely see an honest criticism about a particular make, from a group that owns the said make. Nobody wants to think their car is inferior.
Used FFR prices were in the tank for many years. Finally we are seeing prices more realistic. I have no idea why prices would be higher for Backdraft's unless their owners wizened up sooner than FFR owners.:)

Thank you... I think that might just be spot on.

[zee]

One of the reasons Backdraft costs more is because there's consistent quality, compared to FFR where it all depends on the builder.

However, in your case it seems like you already have a car and it works well for you. So you have to ask yourself what you're looking for in the next car?

[golfobsessed71@gmail.com]

One of the reasons Backdraft costs more is because there's consistent quality, compared to FFR where it all depends on the builder.

However, in your case it seems like you already have a car and it works well for you. So you have to ask yourself what you're looking for in the next car?

Thanks and that's where I am right now. I've had prior posts what I was originally looking for more "old school" and considered selling this car before I finished it. I purchased it unfinished with motor installed and it was a good deal, I couldn't pass it up.

I have absolutely no regrets, it has more than exceeded my expectations in every way and got to cut my teeth on it with cobra replicas... did it the way I wanted with my colors, eliminated one roll hoop and cut the other down, added everything I wanted and had a blast and glad I finished it, frankly a hard decision but the more I'm involved in the forums etc I now know i love these cars, fills the voids from getting out of the Gen 1 and 2 Vipers and now think I might want to move forward with what I was originally looking for.

I think in short time there is nothing particularly special or different with another "brand" aside from the personal inept build quality.

[golfobsessed71@gmail.com]

To all... I love my ffr

[mrmustang]

You really need to get out and see cars, side by side, instead of using microcosms like BAT, Ebay, or Barrett Jackson for your research. Seeing a specific car side by side with another brand, being able to see the different construction type, different body layout, different suspensions, etc. Yes, FFR is a hand built item, I've personally owned, built, rebuilt, restored 17 of them over the years, 31 total Cobra replicas in all. Instead of viewing say just Backdraft, search around for a local Cobra group (your location in your profile should be mandatory), as you never know who may be around your area, and going to the local C&C or cruise ins does not always pull people with Cobras out to this event or that. There used to be a web page on the ERA site that showed the profile differences. I personally like the turn key, factory built ERA 289 FIA and 427SC, or the SPF 289 roadster and 289 FIA (both designed by Ross Henry, with a little bit of input on the prototype FIA by me at a NE fall event in PA many years ago), the SPF roadster and FIA are what is used for the fiberglass CSX7000/8000 series cars these days....I've spent a little time with the FFR MK IV, lightyears ahead of the earlier renditions, IRS rear handles well, 3 link is still my favorite for the track on an FFR. Again, your money, your choices, but before you buy any other brand, read up on both the good and the bad, early cars for Backdraft and SPF had issues not always resolved easily, same goes for early FFR's (MKI-Mk III), they all have their own idiosyncrasies. Backdraft having the least accurate body of them all, and having a BMW derived suspension is not always a good thing, again, do your homework once sites like club cobra are back online.

Bill S.

[golfobsessed71@gmail.com]

You really need to get out and see cars, side by side, instead of using microcosms like BAT, Ebay, or Barrett Jackson for your research. Seeing a specific car side by side with another brand, being able to see the different construction type, different body layout, different suspensions, etc. Yes, FFR is a hand built item, I've personally owned, built, rebuilt, restored 17 of them over the years, 31 total Cobra replicas in all. Instead of viewing say just Backdraft, search around for a local Cobra group (your location in your profile should be mandatory), as you never know who may be around your area, and going to the local C&C or cruise ins does not always pull people with Cobras out to this event or that. There used to be a web page on the ERA site that showed the profile differences. I personally like the turn key, factory built ERA 289 FIA and 427SC, or the SPF 289 roadster and 289 FIA (both designed by Ross Henry, with a little bit of input on the prototype FIA by me at a NE fall event in PA many years ago), the SPF roadster and FIA are what is used for the fiberglass CSX7000/8000 series cars these days....I've spent a little time with the FFR MK IV, lightyears ahead of the earlier renditions, IRS rear handles well, 3 link is still my favorite for the track on an FFR. Again, your money, your choices, but before you buy any other brand, read up on both the good and the bad, early cars for Backdraft and SPF had issues not always resolved easily, same goes for early FFR's (MKI-Mk III), they all have their own idiosyncrasies. Backdraft having the least accurate body of them all, and having a BMW derived suspension is not always a good thing, again, do your homework once sites like club cobra are back online.

Bill S.

Excellent thanks Bill... and I've actually added my location (Surprise Arizona) to my profile, not sure why it's not on there but just noticed it isn't.

Also agree with the Backdraft not being so correct... always had a bit more "bulbous" look

Thanks again.

[RFracer]

Robert,
I’ve owned 3 FFR cars 2 roadsters MK I & II and a Daytona MKI. I’m currently in an ERA 289 FIA traditional old school build including Webers. The ERA was primarily built by ERA and their professional drive train and paint partners. The FFR roadsters were partial donor build 302 EFI cars while the Daytona was all new non donor 351 Ford crate w 4bbl carb. While I enjoyed the FFR ownership I sold each car wanting something different specifically a more vintage analog traditional build. The ERA got me where I wanted to be. Yes there is a difference in the ride and drive. As noted above it’s a very different (higher) price point. I looked at Backdraft and they are bulbous or clowned up Cobra looking to me. I would have also gone for an SPF had I found what I wanted. My search took nearly 2 years and a lot of luck to get my current toy. I’d imagine you could build a very analog FFR or find one if you’re patient.I wish you the best finding or building your dream.
Rich

[golfobsessed71@gmail.com]

Robert,
I’ve owned 3 FFR cars 2 roadsters MK I & II and a Daytona MKI. I’m currently in an ERA 289 FIA traditional old school build including Webers. The ERA was primarily built by ERA and their professional drive train and paint partners. The FFR roadsters were partial donor build 302 EFI cars while the Daytona was all new non donor 351 Ford crate w 4bbl carb. While I enjoyed the FFR ownership I sold each car wanting something different specifically a more vintage analog traditional build. The ERA got me where I wanted to be. Yes there is a difference in the ride and drive. As noted above it’s a very different (higher) price point. I looked at Backdraft and they are bulbous or clowned up Cobra looking to me. I would have also gone for an SPF had I found what I wanted. My search took nearly 2 years and a lot of luck to get my current toy. I’d imagine you could build a very analog FFR or find one if you’re patient.I wish you the best finding or building your dream.
Rich

Rich... thanks so much.

My recent cobra ownership experience has been very exciting and interesting and I should note I have an obsessive personality so when I get into something I go "balls deep"

I've always had some kind of muscle car/toy to play with and have a C5 vert as well as a street glide to take out, those are not going anywhere as my wife drives the vette and I will always have a Harley for my scheduled therapy.

I had a few Vipers which I absolutely loved, gen 1 and 2 with a raw driving experience and loved it... I am NOT about comfort I am about the experience and will drive my cars at 112 degrees and enjoy it.

I got away from the Vipers ( reluctantly) because they are hard to find parts for, if you break a windshield you will be down for a long time in particular gen 1

I went to a cobra because I always wanted one and LOVE the history of them... love the raw drive and thought this would replace the Vipers well.

What a pleasant surprise and I'm fully hooked (clearly I'm not partial to Chevy, Dodge or Ford) just love cars.

When I started looking for a cobra a slabside or FIA weren't even an option... as I've gone along I've completely changed my thought process and feel I may finally end with an exact replica 289 FIA build... that might actually be the end game for me and now understand why they may be more desirable on some level.

It's funny how my thoughts have changed in just a half year... I truly love my MK4 and if I'm not driving it im sitting in the garage with a cocktail looking at it.


This is my start to moving more old school or traditional.

I sometimes consider building a SBF for this car but I know that would be crazy to take this beautiful coyote build and change it.

[J R Jones]

obsessed,
I SCCA raced BP back in the seventies and the class morphed to GT1 and continued to morph until club racing became unrecognizable.
I still like/prefer the iconic configuration from the sixties.
Buying a project car is the highest level of used car risk. Used cars and bikes let alone kit cars, can be modified and/or maintained poorly requiring Sherlock Holmes like skill to figure out, and perhaps correct.
As observed by Zee, factory determined features and assembly is consistent and reassuring.

Personalizing a build is owner determined and period influenced. Mk I & II match the 60's icon with 80s, 90s, 2000 powertrains/features, kind of period mutts.
Cars built currently (like yours) have advanced technology making them unrecognizable compared to the original, and unrecognizable compared to the MK I & II period. What will be unrecognizable compared to your car in the future?
Your vision of "period correct" is a stable configuration.
I can't help but observe that a forum like this results in gamesmanship or one-upmanship. Does the peter principle apply? A cobra morphed until the iconic value is diminished? Does that contribute to cost overrun and short period ownership?
jim

[Badfish]

Slightly different situation, but I got bit by the ‘retro’ bug a while back. I removed my supercharged, EFI engine for a dual-quad carburetor setup. Removed the modern high back seats for traditional. These two major changes satisfied my itch. I love the sound of the carb’d engine, and having never worked on a carburetor, it was an exciting challenge. I did some clean up on the dash too, vintage knobs, etc.

Understanding you have a Coyote motor, anything is possible on a retrofit, and you’d have the satisfaction you did it yourself.

Good Luck in your decision, sometimes the window shopping and planning is the best part!

https://i.imgur.com/KdJl9FY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/aaqGat9.jpg

[RFracer]

Rich... thanks so much.

My recent cobra ownership experience has been very exciting and interesting and I should note I have an obsessive personality so when I get into something I go "balls deep"

I've always had some kind of muscle car/toy to play with and have a C5 vert as well as a street glide to take out, those are not going anywhere as my wife drives the vette and I will always have a Harley for my scheduled therapy.

I had a few Vipers which I absolutely loved, gen 1 and 2 with a raw driving experience and loved it... I am NOT about comfort I am about the experience and will drive my cars at 112 degrees and enjoy it.

I got away from the Vipers ( reluctantly) because they are hard to find parts for, if you break a windshield you will be down for a long time in particular gen 1

I went to a cobra because I always wanted one and LOVE the history of them... love the raw drive and thought this would replace the Vipers well.

What a pleasant surprise and I'm fully hooked (clearly I'm not partial to Chevy, Dodge or Ford) just love cars.

When I started looking for a cobra a slabside or FIA weren't even an option... as I've gone along I've completely changed my thought process and feel I may finally end with an exact replica 289 FIA build... that might actually be the end game for me and now understand why they may be more desirable on some level.

It's funny how my thoughts have changed in just a half year... I truly love my MK4 and if I'm not driving it im sitting in the garage with a cocktail looking at it.


This is my start to moving more old school or traditional.

I sometimes consider building a SBF for this car but I know that would be crazy to take this beautiful coyote build and change it.

Generally cars an addiction for me. Can’t stop or help myself from looking and or buying. Sounds like you’ve got the same issues. At one point I had an 05’ Gen 3 Viper in the garage along with the Daytona and an 07’ Shelby GT Mustang. Been through at least 40 fun cars. Most American muscle with a few strudel wagon hot rods too. Your not crazy it’s just an itch you scratch then the itch comes back. Enjoy the conversations here and do what makes you happy.

[KDubU]

Slightly different situation, but I got bit by the ‘retro’ bug a while back. I removed my supercharged, EFI engine for a dual-quad carburetor setup. Removed the modern high back seats for traditional. These two major changes satisfied my itch. I love the sound of the carb’d engine, and having never worked on a carburetor, it was an exciting challenge. I did some clean up on the dash too, vintage knobs, etc.

Understanding you have a Coyote motor, anything is possible on a retrofit, and you’d have the satisfaction you did it yourself.

Good Luck in your decision, sometimes the window shopping and planning is the best part!

https://i.imgur.com/KdJl9FY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/aaqGat9.jpg

Huge improvement IMHO!

[Mike.Bray]

I'm an R&D engineer so I'm versed in mechanical, electrical, electronics, and software design. And I've been messing with and building cars for 45 years. In the mid 90's I built a Cobra replica from a local company called Component Craft. It was okay but as a designer there were definitely things I didn't like about it.

When I decided to build another Cobra replica and with the aid of the internet I did a ton of research before settling on FFR. At first I was leaning towards Superformance as their hype sounded really good. But I had heard some things and when I got the chance to see one up close I thought it was pretty rough, it was kind of too much like an original lol. I saw a Shell Valley in the process of being built and was not impressed at all. Have to admit I haven't see an ERA or Backdraft up close and personal.

As far as FFR goes, there were a few favorable factors for them in my mind:

The chassis is what I would do, take a base (kind of crappy) original design and add modern engineering to make it better and stronger.

The balance of the car is also well engineered with options to fit most people.

They're investing in technology to build their cars. Massive weld jigs, CNC lasers, 3D Modeling software, etc.

You don't sell 10K of these things by building crap so they must be doing something right.

The MKIV is been sold for a number of years now so that tells me it's pretty refined.

The have a nice and very functional website as opposed to others.

I figured with over 10K out there there would be a good size aftermarket support and there is!

Not to mention the treasure trove of information this forum is.

This is not to say FFR isn't without fault. They're a small company with massive growing pains compounded by the pandemic and supply chain issues. But they're working through it and have been responsive when I've needed them.

[golfobsessed71@gmail.com]

Thanks again guys, really appreciate all the input.

Badfish I actually considered the same but would be a shame to tear down a crate coyote and Im sure there will be interested buyers in a coyote build.

I will keep posted after looking at a few, this forum sure does help in my decision. Thanks again all.

[edwardb]

I totally get the interest by some to keep their builds as traditional as possible. Including the powerplants. That's what's great about this hobby. The kits are essentially a blank slate that you can make how you envision it. There aren't wrong answers. For me personally, I've done both. While I prefer the outside appearance to be more traditional, I've done both older school engines and newer modern engines. For sheer drivability, performance, efficiency, etc. I've come to strongly prefer modern EFI engines. I've done two Coyote builds and now an LS3 in a truck. Absolutely love how they run and drive. I have my Coupe at shows and cars and coffee events quite a lot and it always draws huge attention. Almost without exception, people positively react to seeing the Coyote under the hood of a 60's tribute car. When I had the Coupe at the Detroit Autorama a couple years ago, I had a conversation with a well known classic car dealer. He confirmed this was the trick setup as far as he's concerned and something his buyers strongly prefer. So adds to the resale value. Not saying any of this changes anyone's mind. Just my opinion and observations. As we say frequently, build it the way you want it and have dreamed about.

We have a number of different brands in our local Cobra club. But Factory Five, Superformance, and Backdraft are by far the most common. I had a Superformance in my garage for several weeks helping a club friend sort out a couple things. I would characterize their replica as being very traditional and clearly trying to keep the appearance close to the originals. Notwithstanding the frame design which is nothing like the originals. Backdraft, on the other hand, seems to be trending toward a more restomod look with highly stylized interiors, colors, trims, etc. Plus the extended and a little bulbous body. They're flashy for sure. But not very traditional looking. Nothing about either of them makes me regret my Factory Five decision. Not even close actually. Partly because I enjoy the build process too much. But also because I think the final product, when done well, is hard to beat. But then I'm also highly biased and freely admit it. :p