Autocross tires on our light cars

[RoadRacer]

I'm getting conflicting opinions on 'the best' tires for autocross - because (I suspect) most people are driving cars way heavier than ours. What works on a mustang/camaro might not be right for us in our ~2200 cars.

But I don't know that. All I know is that everyone (not here) pointed me towards Michelin PS4S tires as a great compromise for a daily driven car that does autocross (adding autox for the search engines). But in reality they aren't great. The car has very little grip, considering it's running 355/30r19 and 295/30r19 - that's a lot of tire. The pressure is perfect, the wear pattern great, and I'm continuously playing with different setups. I've added a rear sway bar and a front one is flying it's way to me now. Stiffer springs, etc. I'm trying :D

But ultimately, I'm more interested in what you guys have used, preferably from first-hand experience. I'll keep my PS4S for road use - they'll last a long while - and get a second set of wheels/tires and swap at the track. But what tires?

I could go with better 200TW tires, and stay in T 'class' or go straight to 40TW slicks and run in R - I don't really care, but I'd prefer to stay in T and play with that group than always lose in R (lol). [I'm fairly new to autox, so I'll explain in case the T/R doesn't translate outside our club - our club has many classes like STS that are full of cars, but they also lump many classes into T or R because there's only one car in E-Modified (me)]

I'd love to hear what your experiences are with tires. Being fenderless, I will go as wide (and possibly as square) as possible with whatever I choose. I can go 18" or 19". Likely front/rear over 300 wide.

Pictures for attention, as they say. ;)

169761 169762

[john42]

I run R888Rs. 315 rears and 275 fronts on my Cobra Challenge car. I do autox mostly for fun and also just becoming a better driver. I run in the XP class. I've been pretty happy with the tires and presently my challenges are all in the driver skill category.

[FF33rod]

I would think that an "extreme performance" summer tire would be a bit better than the "max performance" that the PS4S. Potenza RE-71R, Eagle F1 Supercar 3, Proxes R1-R, Azenis RT615K+ are some that fall into that range...

Steve

[RoadRacer]

I run R888Rs. 315 rears and 275 fronts on my Cobra Challenge car. I do autox mostly for fun and also just becoming a better driver. I run in the XP class. I've been pretty happy with the tires and presently my challenges are all in the driver skill category.

Yeah, R888R is a 100TW tire, so would put me in the slicks class anyway

[RoadRacer]

I would think that an "extreme performance" summer tire would be a bit better than the "max performance" that the PS4S. Potenza RE-71R, Eagle F1 Supercar 3, Proxes R1-R, Azenis RT615K+ are some that fall into that range...

Steve

I looked at RE71 and Proxes and they're so narrow! up to 285 or 265..
Eagle F1 S3 or Azenis might work - both at 9.5 dry traction.


Part of what prompted this thread was finding some 100TW Eagle Supercar 3R up for sale. They are a 100TW tire - but then someone who races [a lot] tells me that they need a couple hard laps of a circuit to warm up, and they're terrible for autox. So it's not just in the numbers.

[Jim1855]

What are you running for pressures? Perfect doesn't mean much.

I'd suspect that +/- 22-26 psi would be a good starting point. The recommendations of the sidewalls mean little on a car that weighs 2400#.

Jim

[RoadRacer]

What are you running for pressures? Perfect doesn't mean much.

I'd suspect that +/- 22-26 psi would be a good starting point. The recommendations of the sidewalls mean little on a car that weighs 2400#.

Jim

I originally set pressure at 1% of car weight - 23psi [car is 2280] - and then ended up at 21psi after looking at tire temps across tire and how the wear shows the rollover at edges of tire.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Although I don’t have any personal experience with those Michelins they have been around a long time and by today’s standards are an old technology design. I have run both Nitto NT-01 and Toyo R888R on my car. I’d say that they are pretty equal with a couple of differences; the Toyo heats up a little faster and wants a bigger air pressure split front to rear (Nitto was 1, maybe 2 pounds while the Toyo likes 3-4—BTW, my pressures on a 2,180 pound roadster are generally 18-23 depending on the surface and temperature). Of course both of these are 100 treadwear. In the 200 treadwear category the Falken RT660 is the new king of the hill, knocking both the Yoko and BFG Rivals off of the top. Almost all of the fast CAM class guys are on them now. In hushed tones people are saying that they perform like a 100 treadwear tire but don’t want to say it too loud for fear that SCCA will put them on the excluded tire list ;) I know they offer a wide range of 18” sizes but am not sure about 19s.

Cheers,
Jeff

[john42]

I looked at RE71 and Proxes and they're so narrow! up to 285 or 265..
Eagle F1 S3 or Azenis might work - both at 9.5 dry traction.


Part of what prompted this thread was finding some 100TW Eagle Supercar 3R up for sale. They are a 100TW tire - but then someone who races [a lot] tells me that they need a couple hard laps of a circuit to warm up, and they're terrible for autox. So it's not just in the numbers.

One reason I like the R888Rs is they heat up super quick. Basically, just the excel off the start line is warm. First turn is hot and ready to rock.

[Logan]

James, as one of the handful of guys seriously autocrossing a FFR, I can tell you the SC3R, R888R, 615k+, PS4S (actually all PS series and even Sport Cup tires), RS4, NT01, and many others that are often suggested.....are not great choices for autocross. Some of those are excellent tires, but none of them are excellent for Autox specifically.

For example, the Hankook RS4, Toyo R888R, Nitto NT01, and Goodyear SC3R are great track tires, but they usually grip best with more heat than you'll be able to consistently generate on sub-60 second runs. PS4S is a really good street tire, and borderline excellent heavy rain/WET autox tire, but not ideal for dry grip.

If you want to stay on street tires, 200TW limits, the Yokohama A052 and Falken RT660 are the two to look at. Both of them come in 315/30R18 size which are "under-rated" as they're every bit as wide as some other brands 335s. The 315 fits and performs best on a 12" wheel. Be advised, the Yoks cost as much as Hoosiers, so if you have the cash, and want maximum thrill, I'd vote for Purple Crack (Hoosier A7s) over the 200TW tires. The RT660 is much more affordable, and an excellent handling and fast tire.

The A052 has better longitudinal grip, and the RT660 has better lateral grip and response, so many national level drivers use the Falken front, Yokohama rear config.

Slightly behind those two (why are you looking elsewhere...buy the A052 or RT660!) would be the BFG Rival S 1.5, which is available in 315 and 335. The Rivals like heat, so if you 2-driver your car, or like a lot of slip angle/sliding while going fast, this is a great choice. Bridgestone has finally brought their new RE71RS to the US, but they don't make it in big sizes so it's a moot point. I would suggest sticking to 18" wheels and tires for your goals.

Personally I run the Falken RT660 on my Gen3 Coupe with multiple SCCA regions in the southeast. Pressures in the 21-23 range. Lots of national champions in my home region, and after a year of frustration (2021) trying to setup the car, it's finally getting pretty quick. Like top 10 RAW out of ~125 drivers pretty consistently. More info and some autox vids in my build thread, link in my signature below.

P.S. You don't want too stiff of springs. The car will have maximum mechanical grip with the softest springs you can get by with. Use good shocks with carefully adjusted compression and rebound settings, and swaybars to manage the body roll. One of my early mistakes was setting up my car with too much spring rate.

[RoadRacer]

Although I don’t have any personal experience with those Michelins they have been around a long time and by today’s standards are an old technology design. I have run both Nitto NT-01 and Toyo R888R on my car. I’d say that they are pretty equal with a couple of differences; the Toyo heats up a little faster and wants a bigger air pressure split front to rear (Nitto was 1, maybe 2 pounds while the Toyo likes 3-4—BTW, my pressures on a 2,180 pound roadster are generally 18-23 depending on the surface and temperature). Of course both of these are 100 treadwear. In the 200 treadwear category the Falken RT660 is the new king of the hill, knocking both the Yoko and BFG Rivals off of the top. Almost all of the fast CAM class guys are on them now. In hushed tones people are saying that they perform like a 100 treadwear tire but don’t want to say it too loud for fear that SCCA will put them on the excluded tire list ;) I know they offer a wide range of 18” sizes but am not sure about 19s.

Cheers,
Jeff

I love this, thanks Jeff. Vote 1 for RT660 :D

[RoadRacer]

James, as one of the handful of guys seriously autocrossing a FFR, I can tell you the SC3R, R888R, 615k+, PS4S (actually all PS series and even Sport Cup tires), RS4, NT01, and many others that are often suggested.....are not great choices for autocross. Some of those are excellent tires, but none of them are excellent for Autox specifically.

For example, the Hankook RS4, Toyo R888R, Nitto NT01, and Goodyear SC3R are great track tires, but they usually grip best with more heat than you'll be able to consistently generate on sub-60 second runs. PS4S is a really good street tire, and borderline excellent heavy rain/WET autox tire, but not ideal for dry grip.

If you want to stay on street tires, 200TW limits, the Yokohama A052 and Falken RT660 are the two to look at. Both of them come in 315/30R18 size which are "under-rated" as they're every bit as wide as some other brands 335s. The 315 fits and performs best on a 12" wheel. Be advised, the Yoks cost as much as Hoosiers, so if you have the cash, and want maximum thrill, I'd vote for Purple Crack (Hoosier A7s) over the 200TW tires. The RT660 is much more affordable, and an excellent handling and fast tire.

The A052 has better longitudinal grip, and the RT660 has better lateral grip and response, so many national level drivers use the Falken front, Yokohama rear config.

Slightly behind those two (why are you looking elsewhere...buy the A052 or RT660!) would be the BFG Rival S 1.5, which is available in 315 and 335. The Rivals like heat, so if you 2-driver your car, or like a lot of slip angle/sliding while going fast, this is a great choice. Bridgestone has finally brought their new RE71RS to the US, but they don't make it in big sizes so it's a moot point. I would suggest sticking to 18" wheels and tires for your goals.

Personally I run the Falken RT660 on my Gen3 Coupe with multiple SCCA regions in the southeast. Pressures in the 21-23 range. Lots of national champions in my home region, and after a year of frustration (2021) trying to setup the car, it's finally getting pretty quick. Like top 10 RAW out of ~125 drivers pretty consistently. More info and some autox vids in my build thread, link in my signature below.

P.S. You don't want too stiff of springs. The car will have maximum mechanical grip with the softest springs you can get by with. Use good shocks with carefully adjusted compression and rebound settings, and swaybars to manage the body roll. One of my early mistakes was setting up my car with too much spring rate.

This is gold, thank you Logan. I was hoping for experience.. perfect. Vote 2 for RT660.. I'll for sure look into them now!

I'll compare costs too against the Hoosiers. They'd be super fun, I've never ever run slicks, even when I was playing on circuits in Europe. But there's a lot more fun in the T class, and using a 200 (*cough* 100) tire there sounds even more fun honestly.

Yes, I'm sure hoping I can dial back the springs when my front sway bar goes in. All FFR ever say is "tune with springs" but that is obviously very limited advice. And my 650/400 (IIRC) are pretty stiff on the road.

I'm still on the stock Koni's and was never sure if the upgraded shocks were worth the money for autox.

[RoadRacer]

Ok, got my wheels ordered - wasn't even planning that, but tirerack have 18x12 on closeout at $127.. not passing that up!

got four 18x12 FLOW ONE RACE SPEC F2 GLS BLACK

[Dave 53]

James, as one of the handful of guys seriously autocrossing a FFR, I can tell you the SC3R, R888R, 615k+, PS4S (actually all PS series and even Sport Cup tires), RS4, NT01, and many others that are often suggested.....are not great choices for autocross. Some of those are excellent tires, but none of them are excellent for Autox specifically.

For example, the Hankook RS4, Toyo R888R, Nitto NT01, and Goodyear SC3R are great track tires, but they usually grip best with more heat than you'll be able to consistently generate on sub-60 second runs. PS4S is a really good street tire, and borderline excellent heavy rain/WET autox tire, but not ideal for dry grip.

If you want to stay on street tires, 200TW limits, the Yokohama A052 and Falken RT660 are the two to look at. Both of them come in 315/30R18 size which are "under-rated" as they're every bit as wide as some other brands 335s. The 315 fits and performs best on a 12" wheel. Be advised, the Yoks cost as much as Hoosiers, so if you have the cash, and want maximum thrill, I'd vote for Purple Crack (Hoosier A7s) over the 200TW tires. The RT660 is much more affordable, and an excellent handling and fast tire.

The A052 has better longitudinal grip, and the RT660 has better lateral grip and response, so many national level drivers use the Falken front, Yokohama rear config.

Slightly behind those two (why are you looking elsewhere...buy the A052 or RT660!) would be the BFG Rival S 1.5, which is available in 315 and 335. The Rivals like heat, so if you 2-driver your car, or like a lot of slip angle/sliding while going fast, this is a great choice. Bridgestone has finally brought their new RE71RS to the US, but they don't make it in big sizes so it's a moot point. I would suggest sticking to 18" wheels and tires for your goals.

Personally I run the Falken RT660 on my Gen3 Coupe with multiple SCCA regions in the southeast. Pressures in the 21-23 range. Lots of national champions in my home region, and after a year of frustration (2021) trying to setup the car, it's finally getting pretty quick. Like top 10 RAW out of ~125 drivers pretty consistently. More info and some autox vids in my build thread, link in my signature below.

P.S. You don't want too stiff of springs. The car will have maximum mechanical grip with the softest springs you can get by with. Use good shocks with carefully adjusted compression and rebound settings, and swaybars to manage the body roll. One of my early mistakes was setting up my car with too much spring rate.


I can't speak for auto cross, but at the California tracks, it's overwhelmingly the RT660 or AO52.