View Full Version : Newbie in DFW seeking advice
I have been reading posts on these forums for a while, but this is my first real post. I recently purchased the roadster mk4 complete kit and a BPE 347FI, both expected to deliver in January 2023. I read in another forum a while back on people's biggest regrets with their builds and one stood out, he said he regrets waiting until retirement to start the build as he should have done it 20 years earlier to enjoy it more. So, I took that advice. I was originally planning a bare bones build, but then figured for a few grand more I can make it a car I will want to drive for many years. I have no plans to ever take the car to the track, it will be for city/country cruising only. First, here are some of the high level things I plan to incorporate into the build:
347FI
IRS
17" wheels
radio (I know there are a lot of opinions on this, but I like my music)
quite pipes (not totally decided on GasN or Boig, see my questions later)
heater and AC (I know there are a lot of opinions on this, but it's my build and I want them). Not sure on North Racecars or Vintage Air, but I plan on the firewall forward for this, also plan to incorporate a glove box so this will get tight.
heated seats
power steering
RT turn signal (already on order)
led lighting
front mount battery
dropped trunk for additional storage
top of tunnel parking brake (the Mercury Comet brake failure video was terrifying)
Please advise on the following:
1. Blueprint Engines alternator is 100A and they will not upgrade to a larger one. Is this something I need to plan for given the higher than typical electrical load (FI, radio, heat/AC, heated seats, fuel pump, etc..), or am I worried about nothing. Given the smaller battery for the engine mount location, that makes things more troubling. But, I may be trying to solve a problem that is not real.
2. I have no desire for this thing to be loud, much prefer to have a conversation and listen to the radio (again, I recognize this may be a polarizing perspective). I deleted the headers, j pipes, and sidepipes from FF with plans to order those from GasN or Boig. But, the environmentalist in me is now thinking I should have catalytic converters, which will also help with the noise. How can I best do this with some quieter pipes? Any thoughts on shorty headers or cats I should consider.
3. I ordered the in-tank fuel pump from FF, but have no idea of its capacity. I imagine this should be sufficient for the 347FI, anyone have personal experience as I cannot find the specs for what FF is supplying.
4. If anyone in the DFW area has a body buck or frame dolly they want to unload, I am happy to buy/rent/take off your hands.
Looking forward to the build, but unfortunately, I don't know what I don't know at this point. Any suggestions or advice is welcome.
JJ
Welcome to the family. A 100A alternator is plenty big unless you're installing a crazy sound system. The FFR supplied fuel pump will also be fine for your engine, but if they still use the 5/16 fuel line I would upgrade to a 3/8 line and use the 5/16 for the return, or the returnless system Breeze offers. The noise is a personal thing. The wind will be more bothersome than the exhaust noise. Go with the quietest gas-n side pipes they offer and headers. If it's still too loud you could add some slip in baffles
egchewy79
07-15-2022, 06:16 AM
not sure how you'd incorporate cats unless you have them in a J pipe. FFR used to sell them already welded in. Can't see putting cats on headers. Gas-n pipes are a bit quieter. there are some videos out there, but not by much. it seems to have less "bark" than the FFR ones. you could always consider under car exhaust as well with faux pipes out the sides if you prefer the look.
seagull81
07-15-2022, 08:25 AM
I don't have a radio in my Cobra as the wind and pipes are loud enough to mess with the sound. I use ear buds which Bluetooth to my phone. I can listen to my music and they kind of act like ear plugs. Bob is right on the fuel line. I used NiCop as it bends more easily. You can get fittings that convert it to AN if you want to do that.
If you are on Facebook, you need to go on the DFW Cobra page so you can get connected with the local Cobra group. They post their meeting dates there. Lots of good folks up you way.
Chopper
07-15-2022, 08:26 AM
I have seen a couple of cars that had a catalytic converter integrated into the headers, sort of down where the ball adjuster would be on the FFR headers. Fairly small cats, not sure how effective they would be. Most likely the J-pipe style cats would offer additional sound reduction. However, the FFR ball headers will probably give you the best easy adjust ability to get your side pipes straight without too much additional fuss.
In terms of alternator, make sure to improve the wiring gauge connected to the alternator. The RF harness is fine, but the alternator wire is a bit thin.
-Brandon
Thanks bobl, I assume it will come with 5/16 fuel lines and already planning to upgrade to 3/8. I had not considered a returnless fuel system, any advantages to that? I was already thinking of the car chemistry inserts for the sidepipes, so sounds like we are on the same page there.
seagull81, why NiCop vs aluminum, stainless steel, or ptfe lined ss hose? I assume easier to work and price?
Brandon, thanks for the tip on the alternator wire, I was not aware of this. So much to learn.
seagull81, why NiCop vs aluminum, stainless steel, or ptfe lined ss hose? I assume easier to work and price?
Brandon, thanks for the tip on the alternator wire, I was not aware of this. So much to learn.
You've already got a lot of good comments, so I'll just try to address a couple of things from my personal perspective.
1. The 347 with EFI is a great choice. I assume this is based on the Sniper EFI? If so, the Sniper likes 3/8" feed and return lines.
2. Return vs. Returnless is a misnomer. Returnless is still a return system, it just eliminates the long return line to the engine bay with a short line and regulator placed closer to the tank or in some cases, in the tank. Choosing a "retunless" setup requires slightly different connections on the Sniper, which are covered in the install manual.
3. Line material selection is a personal choice. I used a combination of NiCop and PTFE flex in my recent update. Stainless is great but can be a bit harder to work with than NiCop. PTFE flex can be used for the full system and is easy to work with. Aluminum is the one material I'd shy away from for fuel/brake lines. If you do go aluminum, you need to be very careful about seams and how you choose to connect the lines (compression vs. flair, etc.).
Have fun and remember, it's your car! Build it the way YOU want to build it.
Dave
egchewy79
07-15-2022, 09:45 AM
seagull81, why NiCop vs aluminum, stainless steel, or ptfe lined ss hose? I assume easier to work and price?
Brandon, thanks for the tip on the alternator wire, I was not aware of this. So much to learn.
I used braided SS PTFE for my lines. less connections to potentially leak and very easy to work with. return line is not hard to run, but doubles your cost on the PTFE. I'm sure you'll be spending more on a returnless system however.
I am planning on going the 6AN SS PTFE route for fuel and return lines, good to know this isn't unusual. I am just not wanting to mess with the flarings for solid tube and flex line seems much easier to route where needed with fewer points of failure. But yes, it is more expensive than other options.
egchewy79
07-15-2022, 10:36 AM
keep in mind that different brands of PTFE lines have slightly different ODs, and definitely smaller than regular braided SS 6AN OD.
I think there are differences in fittings as well, so make sure if you're making your own lines, that you order the right stuff. I think I found line separators from Earl's performance that fit the PTFE lines.
I ordered mine through Mike Forte, who gets them through Fragola.
BradCraig
07-15-2022, 11:39 AM
You didn't mention your brakes, but if you are going that far go ahead and do the Wilwoods. None of these cars are quiet just different levels of LOUD! Gas-N may do what you need, but may be able to custom make quieter pipes if needed. This is something I have been batting around, the FF pipes are obnoxious and sets off my Tinitis even with ear plugs.
I ordered the standard front brakes (11" twin piston PBR) with the 13" IRS Mustang back brakes. Since the Wilwood brakes were another $3120 ($1855 for the front and $2064 for the rear minus the $799 13" Mustang setup) and I do not plan to race the car, I figured that the standard package would be sufficient for daily driving. If not, I was planning to first upgrade to the Hawk HPS pads, then put in power brakes if that wasn't enough. Either of these will cost less than the Wilwood upgrade. Do I NEED the Wilwood upgrade?
Planning on starting with the GasN touring side pipes and header and see how that goes.
BradCraig
07-15-2022, 12:42 PM
I ordered the standard front brakes (11" twin piston PBR) with the 13" IRS Mustang back brakes. Since the Wilwood brakes were another $3120 ($1855 for the front and $2064 for the rear minus the $799 13" Mustang setup) and I do not plan to race the car, I figured that the standard package would be sufficient for daily driving. If not, I was planning to first upgrade to the Hawk HPS pads, then put in power brakes if that wasn't enough. Either of these will cost less than the Wilwood upgrade. Do I NEED the Wilwood upgrade?
Planning on starting with the GasN touring side pipes and header and see how that goes.
Do you NEED them? Absolutely not. I did the same thing, but found the FF brakes and provided pads were inadequate. I went back and forth on Wilwood or Hawk pads to resolve and decided just to bite the bullet and go Wilwood from Gordon Levy. As a % of a highly optioned >60k build it's not that much IMHO and they look awesome. Note that I do track mine from time to time so the decision was easy.
egchewy79
07-15-2022, 01:05 PM
I ordered the standard front brakes (11" twin piston PBR) with the 13" IRS Mustang back brakes. Since the Wilwood brakes were another $3120 ($1855 for the front and $2064 for the rear minus the $799 13" Mustang setup) and I do not plan to race the car, I figured that the standard package would be sufficient for daily driving. If not, I was planning to first upgrade to the Hawk HPS pads, then put in power brakes if that wasn't enough. Either of these will cost less than the Wilwood upgrade. Do I NEED the Wilwood upgrade?
Planning on starting with the GasN touring side pipes and header and see how that goes.
I have no issues w/ the stock PBR brakes. just recent adjusted my balance bar and seems to stop a bit better as well. still tweaking. might upgrade fronts to Hawks if I feel I want better bite. I upgraded the rears to hawks last year when I had to replace a leaky caliper. I am not tracking the car, but feels very responsive with just street driving.
Randy's
07-15-2022, 01:08 PM
Your build plan is very similar to what I built...Blueprint 347 with Holley Sniper EFI. I also put in a radio, heated seats, front mounted battery, RT turn signals, power steering, dropped trunk and Vintage air, heat and defrost. I used all the fuel line components that FF provided and have had no issues. The Blueprint alternator is not an issue either. I do not have cats so will defer to others on if they help the exhaust noise. My gut says they will have no affect.
A few comments/suggestions:
I don't think you will be able to have a glove box. At least not if you use Vintage Air. Not sure about the North Racecars unit.
I highly recommend the Wilwood brakes.
Unless the pipes you purchase come with a bung for the O2 sensor, you will have to incorporate one to drive the EFI. There are a lot of threads on how best to do that.
Best of luck!
Avalanche325
07-15-2022, 03:04 PM
Fuel line - NEVER use aluminum. It is prone to cracking. I used it from my fuel pump to carb. I started to smell fuel on the highway one day. I am lucky I didn't have a fire.
Brakes - Have you ever seen a car that stops too fast? I haven't. One extra foot can be the difference between an underware change or a trip to the hospital. Wilwoods for me. I wouldn't build one without them. A car that goes fast needs to stop fast, not just adequately.
If you want quiet. Under car exhaust is the way to go. Anything else has an exhaust pipe about two feet from your ear.
You can do a heater and full glove box if you move the heater to the middle of a standard location fire wall. Not sure about A/C.
edwardb
07-15-2022, 04:27 PM
Lots of good comments. A few additional from me:
If you're using the Wilwood pedal box (standard with the complete kit) adding power brakes after the build is complete (e.g. you're unhappy with the manual and decide you'd like power) is nearly impossible. Master cylinders move from inside the pedal box to outside, brake line routings change, Wilwood pedal box and arm need modification. Although probably possible, removing the body is likely required. A Mustang pedal box with the master cylinders on the outside is an easier change. But that has some challenges too. I'd suggest power brakes is a build decision. Not a later modification. I've done Wilwoods on all my builds except the first one. Agree they're not cheap. But as a percent of the entire build budget, I've felt they were worth it. My current Gen 3 Coupe with manual Wilwoods stops great. Agreed there are less expensive options that work well, including more aggressive pads. But I wouldn't consider changing from manual to power later as a good option.
If you need to do a return line, for some setups it can be done very close to the tank. So the effort (and materials) are significantly reduced compared to running the return line all the way to the engine compartment. I used Aeroquip TFE Racing -6AN SS flex and fittings for my current truck build with the regulator and return line by the tank. Works great.
A buddy changed from the stock Factory Five pipes to Gas-N touring pipes on his Roadster. Huge different in sound level. That's Gas-n's "quiet" option. Highly recommended.
Personally, I'd strongly recommend staying away from a J-pipe setup. Instead go with straight tube headers. I can't help you with adding Cats. But I can tell you that everyone I know with J-pipes eventually regret them. Don't like to stay aligned, pieces break, sound and performance penalties.
I know you said your mind's made up. But just throwing this out there. I put a high end sound system in my second Roadster build. Was completely useless while driving in our experience. Exhaust sound is just one component. Wind and traffic noise are the major contributors while cruising. It had to be up so loud to be heard it just wasn't enjoyable. I have Sony earbuds I use now. Mainly for the noise reduction. I'm not a big music listener while driving. But with Bluetooth from my phone they sound great and if that's what you need, that's what I'd recommend.
Mike.Bray
07-15-2022, 05:09 PM
I ordered the standard front brakes (11" twin piston PBR) with the 13" IRS Mustang back brakes. Since the Wilwood brakes were another $3120 ($1855 for the front and $2064 for the rear minus the $799 13" Mustang setup) and I do not plan to race the car, I figured that the standard package would be sufficient for daily driving. If not, I was planning to first upgrade to the Hawk HPS pads, then put in power brakes if that wasn't enough. Either of these will cost less than the Wilwood upgrade. Do I NEED the Wilwood upgrade?
Planning on starting with the GasN touring side pipes and header and see how that goes.
I went with Wilwood. FFR shipped me the Mustang front brake setup which I obviously don't need, if you want it you can have it. Just haul it off for me. Save you some money for your build and you can always upgrade to Wilwood later.
Thank you all for the comments and Mike for the brake offer. It appears that most prefer the wilwood brakes and after considering how I may feel in the event of something bad happening due to a less than great braking setup, I would rather have the expense now than the potential regret later. Piece of mind I suppose, but wilwood upgrade it will be.
NN2019
07-16-2022, 11:46 AM
The body buck is still available if you want it.
nucjd19
07-16-2022, 07:39 PM
As the usual on this site everyone has made great suggestions that I really can't add too much to. I will say I have the Mustang GT brakes on mine upgraded from the standard with the bias adjuster and they work well. I have thought a Willwood brake upgrade down the road was an option for a winter project and that seems to be panning out. I have about 1k of miles on my build and and the brakes have gotten better and better after bedding in.
I will add this. You said you are building earlier than you thought and I think that is a great move. I always wanted to build a Roadster and held off finally pulling the trigger with the delivery 12/2020. Wanted this to be an experience with my brothers and more so my dad. He was so excited and would just sit there while we wrenched and critique me and my brother the whole time LOL! He was in his 70s and a type 1 diabetic since he was 12 years old so the neuropathy had gotten so bad he could not spin wrenches well. In his day though he was a machine and completely restored a 1944 Willys Army jeep that had a tree growing through the engine bay when he found it. He died form a massive heart attack unexpectedly 4 months ago and never got to see the finished Roadster. I ordered 4 months too late. I could have ordered earlier but life got in the way. I got pictures this week from my painter and my first thought was " I wish my dad could have seen it ". So good on you :)
Theshandman
07-19-2022, 03:50 PM
JJK, I ordered and received pretty much the same engine arrangement as you and a number of others: BPE 347, sniper EFI, TKX tranny, and the 'complete' kit from F5. I say 'complete' because after 7 months there are a few parts still on back order but that have been supplanted with similar parts from other sources. I did wait till I was retired but the good news is all the time I now have to have fun with the build. One thing I didn't see mentioned in this thread is in regard to the FF supplied in-tank fuel pump. I took the advice of Papa? J Kleiner? (not sure who, since in retirement, my memory infrastructure is starting to crack), to look at a Pro-M in-tank fuel pump that incorporates a return line that descends to the bottom of the hanger to minimize if not eliminate cavitation from a short return line in the hanger such as what F5 sent me in my kit. This video sold me. https://youtu.be/3osqtEtIEig But if FF has changed to a pump hanger that does this, you're good.
BradCraig
07-19-2022, 04:40 PM
JJK, I ordered and received pretty much the same engine arrangement as you and a number of others: BPE 347, sniper EFI, TKX tranny, and the 'complete' kit from F5. I say 'complete' because after 7 months there are a few parts still on back order but that have been supplanted with similar parts from other sources. I did wait till I was retired but the good news is all the time I now have to have fun with the build. One thing I didn't see mentioned in this thread is in regard to the FF supplied in-tank fuel pump. I took the advice of Papa? J Kliener? (not sure who, since in retirement, my memory infrastructure is starting to crack), to look at a Pro-M in-tank fuel pump that incorporates a return line that descends to the bottom of the hanger to minimize if not eliminate cavitation from a short return line in the hanger such as what F5 sent me in my kit. This video sold me. https://youtu.be/3osqtEtIEig But if FF has changed to a pump hanger that does this, you're good.
Ditto on the Pro-M.
Thanks for the tip on the pro-m, but just to be clear, it is really the fuel pump hanger that is changed and not the actual fuel pump. Looks like the pro-m hanger has a 3/8 return port instead of 1/4 as well as a ret
Looks like the pro-m hanger has a 3/8 return port instead of 1/4 as well as a return tube that gets closer to the bottom of the fuel tank. I plan to use the walbro 255 to internal pump, but see the wisdom of the pro-m hanger
Chopper
07-19-2022, 06:42 PM
The Pro-M looks pretty nice. I like the concept of having the integrated AN connections and subsequently not using adapters. Plumbing the whole system with 3/8 line and -6 an seems very straightforward. While I'm sure there is a benefit, keep in mind that in the demo video there is nothing inline to reduce the pressure of the fuel coming through the return (such as a running V8 motor), so it may be a little exaggerated.
edwardb
07-20-2022, 04:55 AM
I've used the Pro-M fuel tank hanger on multiple builds. First class product and if you're going with an OE style in-tank pump, the only way to go IMO. It uses standard Walbro pumps. Yes, -6 AN fittings on both sides so 3/8" supply and return lines are the result. For other than the very highest HP, a very solid and conservative setup.
I ordered wilwood front and rear brakes for my build. Question is, are the 3/16" brake lines sufficient for this?
edwardb
07-20-2022, 10:40 PM
I ordered wilwood front and rear brakes for my build. Question is, are the 3/16" brake lines sufficient for this?
Yes.