Things can go wrong, brakes and safety belts

[Fman]

I am a big follower of AutotopiaLA, they do car build reviews on all kinds of muscle cars. This video is a good reminder of why it is so important to triple check your brakes when building a car and properly maintaining/inspecting them on a consistent basis. Along with having good safety belts (wearing them properly), a functioning emergency brake and recognizing when something is not correct with your engine and taking care of the problem rather than just driving the car.

Fortunately nobody was killed in this crash and everyone has made close to a full recovery. The video goes into detail what went wrong and the issues the owner was having with the car. Thought I would post this up, hope everyone can take it as a learning tool because I know I sure did after watching it. IMHO I don't think this car should have been on the road with the throttle issue but regardless it is a good reminder that things can go wrong.


https://youtu.be/5oO226PgSkg

[toadster]

wow that video is very well done, really pulls you in... holy smoke that's terrifying! Glad they're ok, but ugh!

I went through a crash when I was 17 and my shoulder belt didn't hold and I no longer have the upper lip frenulum because of it
thanks for sharing Travis!

[JohnK]

Thanks for posting this. That's pretty sobering.

I've done and read a lot of failure analyses, both throughout my professional career as well as in the various hobbies I've enjoyed over the years. One recurring theme is that serious accidents are rarely, if ever, the result of one failure. It usually takes several cascading problems to cause a catastrophic (or in this case near-catastrophic) accident. We all need to be aware of the inherent risks associated with driving high-powered cars that we've build ourselves and remain vigilant.

[Nigel Allen]

High idle, sticky throttle continually pushing against undersized and overheating brakes. Such a pity they didn't pull over before the brakes finally over heated and failed.

Seeing the hosts head smack against the dashboard made me feel sick.
Be careful and be thorough in your workmanship and maintenance, your life / quality of life depends on it.

Thanks Fman for putting this video on the forum.


.

[mburger]

So much to learn from this. Everything that led up to the brake failure to the response of the driver at the time of brake failure. I was disappointed there’s no mention of the people in the car they hit. I’m sure their attorney has gone over every second of that video along with a likely demand to the court for every second of all video from all cameras throughout the shoot.

[egchewy79]

I was thinking the exact same thing…no mention of the people in the minivan that got absolutely smoked from behind. I’m sure there was a thorough legal consultation before posting this. Not sure how I’d react in a similar situation but pretty sure I’d stop if my throttle was sticking and I had to ride the brakes the whole time

[CraigS]

Hard to reach the ignition switch? Seems more like a human failing than a mechanical failing.

[RoadRacer]

One reason why I moved the e-brake in the hot rod to somewhere I could reach with the harness on. Still kinda blows my mind that most can't.

[mburger]

One reason why I moved the e-brake in the hot rod to somewhere I could reach with the harness on. Still kinda blows my mind that most can't.

What an excellent point. I can’t reach mine with the harness on.

[Railroad]

I think he shifted to park from the clicking sound heard immediately there after. Reverse may have been more effective for slowing the car. Do not know what killing the engine would do after that. All bad stuff, but very convincing. Mama gets to wear lap and harness here after.
From the conversation, no parking/emergency brake.

[Blitzboy54]

One reason why I moved the e-brake in the hot rod to somewhere I could reach with the harness on. Still kinda blows my mind that most can't.

I didn't even think about that until this moment....... Damn it.

[Nigel Allen]

From the brake smells they were noticing, sounds like the brake pads were overheated to the point of complete fade. I'm not sure if a handbrake would have done anything except give the driver something to hang onto.

I know little about auto transmissions, if the driver had put it in reverse instead of park, would that have helped?

[Nigel Allen]

I didn't even think about that until this moment....... Damn it.

My Mk4 is RHD and FFR left the handbrake in the same position, it is an easy reach. I thought I would be banging my leg against it, but never has been a problem. Maybe LHD cars could/should have the hand brake on the left side. Easy enough mod to do on a completed car, apart from patching carpet.

[BradCraig]

So much to learn from this. Everything that led up to the brake failure to the response of the driver at the time of brake failure. I was disappointed there’s no mention of the people in the car they hit. I’m sure their attorney has gone over every second of that video along with a likely demand to the court for every second of all video from all cameras throughout the shoot.

That video is a lawyers dream...he admitted he knew about every cause of this accident. So much negligence.

[OB6]

Makes me second guess my plan to install an electric e-brake, because I'm not sure they engage as quickly as a manual unit.

[Blitzboy54]

From the brake smells they were noticing, sounds like the brake pads were overheated to the point of complete fade. I'm not sure if a handbrake would have done anything except give the driver something to hang onto.

I know little about auto transmissions, if the driver had put it in reverse instead of park, would that have helped?

They have a latching drive that protects them from having that happen at speed. It sounds like a giant ratchet. I would imagine it would help. I know a guy that used to do it to rental cars.

PS don't buy a rental car.

[JohnK]

The one advantage that we (most of us) have vs. that specific scenario is that with a manual transmission you simply press the clutch. You still need to figure out how to stop the car but at least you're no longer being shoved forward by a 1000+HP motor with a stuck throttle. That's not to say there aren't a thousand other ways our cars can kill us if we're not paying attention.

[ggunter]

Gotta say I don't usually use my shoulder belts......But from now on that car won't move without them being on. That up close and personal shot of his mouth hitting the dash is pretty eye opening. Wow that is violent. Everybody thinks they would have it covered if they were in a similar crash as far as bracing for it, and they saw it coming and had time to brace. G forces win out every time. Wow...

[J R Jones]

Hard to reach the ignition switch? Seems more like a human failing than a mechanical failing.

Human failing? More than one.
This would be a big day for any car guy to demonstrate his workmanship.
The owner/driver apparently did not pre-test his car before the film crew showed up, and he should have.
A test drive and the throttle malfunction should have paused the event for repair.
It is a remarkably poor strategy to ride the brake on 1300hp to modulate speed on a 3500lb. car in city traffic.
No auxiliary brake? Failed configuration, I suspect there were more shortcomings.
jim

[Jeff Kleiner]

Plenty of 20/20 hindsight and woulda', coulda', shoulda' to be had here. As bad as it got for all involved it could have easily become more tragic.

If nothing else take 2 things away from this event---

1) Please, please, please, always use the full harnesses. In my car the rule for everyone is "all 5 belts all the time".

2) Have an accessible and operational parking brake. Here's where mine is and where I've located it on many of the cars I've built (some owners have still wanted it on the tunnel side even after being informed of it's shortcomings)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169312&d=1657638843

And it actually works! I'd estimate that 75% of the cars that I get in have what is effectively a non functional parking brake that won't even hold the cars on an incline, much less help bring them to a stop :eek:

OK, putting away the soapbox now...

Jeff

169312

[GoDadGo]

You can never and will never know when an accident will happen.

> With that said I went left front to left front with a Chevy Truck in my wife's Safari Van.
> I was only 300-400 feet from my home when both vehicles got totaled.
> Thankfully both of us were wearing our seat belts.
> The best part is my family wasn't with me.
> We always wear our seat belts in any car.

I lost the tip of my tongue and spoke with a lisp for a few months, but that was it.

NOTE: I don't know if I can even reach my parking brake with the harnesses on, but I can turn off the ignition switch.

[Dave Tabor]

So then I should or should not go-cart my build without the seats bolted in or the belts?

Asking for a friend.

[RoadRacer]

Plenty of 20/20 hindsight and woulda', coulda', shoulda' to be had here. As bad as it got for all involved it could have easily become more tragic.

If nothing else take 2 things away from this event---

1) Please, please, please, always use the full harnesses. In my car the rule for everyone is "all 5 belts all the time".

2) Have an accessible and operational parking brake. Here's where mine is and where I've located it on many of the cars I've built (some owners have still wanted it on the tunnel side even after being informed of it's shortcomings)

And it actually works! I'd estimate that 75% of the cars that I get in have what is effectively a non functional parking brake that won't even hold the cars on an incline, much less help bring them to a stop :eek:

OK, putting away the soapbox now...

Jeff

Yep, I moved mine similarly.

143185

[Ted G]

Wow! Thanks Travis, this definitely changes my attitude towards the 5 point harness and the need for strong working ebrake. Just so happened I completed my ebrake yesterday and will test and adjust when needed.


Ted

[glastron351]

When I went through the road worthy inspection I had to remove the harness's and install lapbelts that were vintage to the era (I used lap belts from a 68 mustang). For some reason our government insurance system (Manitoba Public Insurance) would not allow the 'racing harness'. What a great reminder that I need to re-install the Simpson harnesses. That just got bumped to the top of my to do list.....

[txboiler]

High idle, sticky throttle continually pushing against undersized and overheating brakes. Such a pity they didn't pull over before the brakes finally over heated and failed.
.

Nigel...you hit several factors spot on; Add the pressure of a photo shoot and not wanting to let production crew and viewers down; there are the mechanical aspects of failure and the human factors as well. The "dirty dozen" are human factors we all should be aware of.

https://skybrary.aero/articles/human-factors-dirty-dozen

[egchewy79]

So then I should or should not go-cart my build without the seats bolted in or the belts?

Asking for a friend.

at your own discretion. I did my first "go kart" up and down the driveway, back and forth, like 30 times to check all the mechanicals and for leaks. then it was on neighborhood roads <20-30mph for the next 50miles.
I did have my seats and belts installed at the time. I wouldn't even consider open road driving before it's titled/licensed. Even if no one got injured, you insurance would likely not cover any damages resulting from an untitled go kart.

[Flip Smiley]

Off the subject a little. When go-carting be sure all radiator hose are secure. There isn’t a lot of protection from scalding water.

[TMartinLVNV]

I watched this video before reading this post. Wow, my heart was racing and my butt was squeezing my office chair cushion when he said "no brakes!". Lots of mistakes happened here. Some compounding others. My two big takeaways were:

1. No full harnesses? He spent well over $200k on the build. He had an anti sub belt, but no shoulder straps? As a passenger, there are some cars that you should not get into. I use my shoulder belts even when just going to the gas station 2 miles away. My face is not very pretty, but it is the only one I have.
2. As stated above, no mention of how the occupants of the mini van are doing. Really disappointing.

The car was a masterpiece. I'm sure it will be again one day. Driving with a known mechanical issue that can quickly go catastrophic is inexcusable.

[k-roy]

Hard to reach an ignition switch? Turning the ignition off causes other hazards.

When I was 17 I had a lifted CJ7 which required a longer brake line because of the increased wheel travel. Unfortunately, it was rubbing on the inside of the tire. After a weekend off-roading (Moab, UT) and a 3.5 hour drive home through winding canyons, I was pulling into a stop light in my home town. Blew out the brake line, I panicked, down shifted into second and turned the car off. With the key off, I could no longer steer. Luckily the road was wide (two lane with turn lane, but wide enough for 4 lanes, turn lane, and right hand turn lane), and I started drifting off the right hand side of the road. Turned the car back on to steer, but with the car in gear the engine turned over and it restarted. Re aimed the Jeep, turned off the ingnition, let the Jeep drift right until I stopped just into the intersection. Limped it home in granny gear going less than 5 miles an hour. Of course the parking brake never worked in that thing.

2 things saved me. 1. Luck that it happened in a wide road where the Jeep could drift and not in a canyon. 2. It was midnight, and no traffic.

About to start my build. I will make sure the parking brake works and that I can reach it.

[egchewy79]

I watched this video before reading this post. Wow, my heart was racing and my butt was squeezing my office chair cushion when he said "no brakes!". Lots of mistakes happened here. Some compounding others. My two big takeaways were:

1. No full harnesses? He spent well over $200k on the build. He had an anti sub belt, but no shoulder straps? As a passenger, there are some cars that you should not get into. I use my shoulder belts even when just going to the gas station 2 miles away. My face is not very pretty, but it is the only one I have.
2. As stated above, no mention of how the occupants of the mini van are doing. Really disappointing.

The car was a masterpiece. I'm sure it will be again one day. Driving with a known mechanical issue that can quickly go catastrophic is inexcusable.

earlier in the video (at the 2:55 mark) it does show shoulder harnesses and full race buckets. they just chose not to wear them.

[TMartinLVNV]

Oh wow, that is even worse.:mad:

[Dave Tabor]

at your own discretion. I did my first "go kart" up and down the driveway, back and forth, like 30 times to check all the mechanicals and for leaks. then it was on neighborhood roads <20-30mph for the next 50miles.
I did have my seats and belts installed at the time. I wouldn't even consider open road driving before it's titled/licensed. Even if no one got injured, you insurance would likely not cover any damages resulting from an untitled go kart.

my apologies for my attempt at humor...

Dave
Gen III Coupe #17
14,000+ miles

[TMartinLVNV]

my apologies for my attempt at humor...

Dave
Gen III Coupe #17
14,000+ miles

I thought it was pretty funny.

In my mind, there is a big difference in driving in traffic, with a passenger, with a known mechanical issue that can quickly lead to a catastrophic failure and test driving your car in a neighborhood, with no traffic.

I did plenty of test drives. Both with no body and with the body on during the build process. Pick areas with little to no traffic. If a car is going to overtake you or going to be in your lane, yield to them and pull to the curb. Yes it was illegal, there are risks, and I knew it. But driving in full traffic, riding the brake to attempt to control acceleration, smelling brakes, and then keep on driving???

I'm really glad they made the video. It took guts for them to post one of the worst days of their lives for the public to scrutinize. It is easier (and cheaper) to learn from others.

[mburger]

I’m stuck in a hospital this week with nothing to do but try to get a non-interrupted 2 hours of sleep and think about Cobra projects. I now have 3. Complete trunk lid hinge modifications, hood hinge update from the original style, and now moving the E-brake to the left side of the tunnel.

Thanks Travis for posting this!!

[Blitzboy54]

My parking brake works great. I could stop my car in 2x regular breaking distance if I could reach the parking brake. The only way to use it would be to pull the red release lever on my harness.


Now I'm annoyed

[Windsor]

My Mk4 is RHD and FFR left the handbrake in the same position, it is an easy reach. I thought I would be banging my leg against it, but never has been a problem. Maybe LHD cars could/should have the hand brake on the left side. Easy enough mod to do on a completed car, apart from patching carpet.

Possibly.

IIRC, RHD cars have the accelerator pedal on the right side (same as LHD).

On LHD vehicle, rubbing your right leg on the brake lever to work the throttle might get old.

Then again, maybe I'm over-thinking the problem.

I like Kleiner's solution.

[GTBradley]

The chain of events leading to the accident was an issue, but it's human nature to rationalize for convenience and based on the fact that everything has always turned out well before. I'm a CFI and have been the safety director at multiple flight departments. I've personally known three people (two of them were good friends) that died flying exactly what I did and performing the same jobs. The big difference is the attitude towards safety and SOP. These car guys rationalized that they didn't need the shoulder belts. This is very common. What I do is develop standard operating procedures and always follow them even when I can rationalize that it's not needed this time. I see people rationalizing that they don't need signals or need to stop at stop signs in neighborhoods. My first thought is, you don't know every possible scenario, like a kid riding his bike fast on the sidewalk and you just blew through the stop sign because you "know" you're not going to hit anything. Or when you get old and are less sharp, but are still driving and you don't have the muscle memory or life-long standard procedure of always using signals? That may not serve you or other people well. So why not just stick to the rules of the road? They aren't hard or onerous. Don't get me wrong, I take risks, plenty of them, but they are all managed and considered carefully.

Two big take-aways for me:
- Use the shoulder belts (set your standards in stone!)
- Make sure that emergency brake works. I didn't for a while as these roadsters tend to have issues with it working well, but it bugged me until I got my emergency brake to hold the car on a steep hill. It can be done even with the original design.

I wouldn't judge these guys too harshly because these little mistakes are made by all of us at one time or another. Notice that they did blame themselves for not putting on the shoulder belts. What they should do is blame themselves for not having a better attitude towards procedures. When it comes to your procedures/safety you shouldn't be swayed by what is easier, cool, or what others think of you.

[J R Jones]

Nigel...you hit several factors spot on; Add the pressure of a photo shoot and not wanting to let production crew and viewers down; there are the mechanical aspects of failure and the human factors as well. The "dirty dozen" are human factors we all should be aware of.

https://skybrary.aero/articles/human-factors-dirty-dozen

txboiler,
#13 Pride comes before the fall
#14 Your racing parts will not save you if your intent is merely the "image".

jim

[svassh]

I would debate whether its a parking brake or e-brake, I lean more towards parking and the ability to hold the vehicle on a slight incline. That said in this situation, given his speed 45-50mph, relatively short time to react (4-5 seconds) and 1300+hp, 900+lb torque(?) motor running at > 2K RPM...I doubt even a fully functioning rear brake of any kind would have made much of a difference slowing that beast. Likely the brake fluid was as old as the brakes.

As some have said I'm more disappointed this guys ego got away from him and he could have killed a child in the mini van. Everybody wants to be a celebrity today.

[Avalanche325]

You guys must all be short. I can reach my stock location parking brake strapped in.

I used to be a nuke on a submarine, so maybe I take safety a little more serious than most. I would never get in one of these without all 5 belts. I got a ride in one many years ago. When I got in the owner said "You don't need those" when I reached for the shoulder belts. I said "I just want the full experience" and put them on anyway. I can't believe how many people don't wear them. No one will ride in my car without them either.

If you ever do have to reach for that parking, now turned emergency brake, make sure you feather it. If you yank it up, you are going to be having the same emergency...... just backwards.

[rich grsc]

I would debate whether its a parking brake or e-brake, I lean more towards parking and the ability to hold the vehicle on a slight incline. That said in this situation, given his speed 45-50mph, relatively short time to react (4-5 seconds) and 1300+hp, 900+lb torque(?) motor running at > 2K RPM...I doubt even a fully functioning rear brake of any kind would have made much of a difference slowing that beast. Likely the brake fluid was as old as the brakes.

As some have said I'm more disappointed this guys ego got away from him and he could have killed a child in the mini van. Everybody wants to be a celebrity today.

I have to agree. If 4 hydraulic brakes can't slow and stop a 1300hp car, a mechanical PARKING brake isn't going to change the outcome. After all, it's the same brake pads that couldn't do the job to start with.

[Avalanche325]

I would debate whether its a parking brake or e-brake,...

In most states it is required to be both. It has to hold the car. It also has to work if the main braking system fails.

[JohnK]

I have to agree. If 4 hydraulic brakes can't slow and stop a 1300hp car, a mechanical PARKING brake isn't going to change the outcome. After all, it's the same brake pads that couldn't do the job to start with.

This ignores the obvious scenario where there's been a hydraulic failure in the system, in which case a cable-actuated brake (call it a parking brake or emergency brake or whatever you want) could make a huge difference in the outcome. In the case of the Wilwoods that come with the FFR kit, it's a completely separate caliper so a fully redundant system, even if the pads of the hydraulic calipers have overheated.

[rich grsc]

Well John, I'm referring to the vehicle in the video with 1300hp, as was svassh, not a custom Wilwood system for a cobra

[OB6]

This is making me rethink my plan to install an electric parking brake, as I understand they don't engage as quickly as the manual units. However, maybe an electric unit would have made all the difference.

[TMartinLVNV]

My parking brake works great. I could stop my car in 2x regular breaking distance if I could reach the parking brake. The only way to use it would be to pull the red release lever on my harness.


Now I'm annoyed

Being 6'6" with extra long monkey arms makes me just able to reach the parking brake with the harness on.

[TMartinLVNV]

Well John, I'm referring to the vehicle in the video with 1300hp, as was svassh, not a custom Wilwood system for a cobra

Well Rich, do you know what the rear braking system is on this car? Does it have drums? If you do, please don't keep it a secret.

[JohnK]

Well John, I'm referring to the vehicle in the video with 1300hp, as was svassh, not a custom Wilwood system for a cobra

svassh was speaking at least partly in generalities, but if you want to argue semantics knock yourself out.

[Nigel Allen]

IMHO the brakes failed due to overheating. Friction is reduced between the pad and disc /drum to a point that the brakes lack ability to haul up the car.
Whether the brake is applied by hydraulic or cable is immaterial. The braking system simply won't work

Unless the parking brake is completely separate, such as mounted on the rear of the transmission. I would expect a seperate parking brake pad operating on the same overheating disc as also likely to fail.

[john42]

You guys must all be short. I can reach my stock location parking brake strapped in.

I used to be a nuke on a submarine, so maybe I take safety a little more serious than most. I would never get in one of these without all 5 belts. I got a ride in one many years ago. When I got in the owner said "You don't need those" when I reached for the shoulder belts. I said "I just want the full experience" and put them on anyway. I can't believe how many people don't wear them. No one will ride in my car without them either.

If you ever do have to reach for that parking, now turned emergency brake, make sure you feather it. If you yank it up, you are going to be having the same emergency...... just backwards.

I bought mine and ya the parking brake was non-functional. It had a donor Mustang handle and I replaced that with the FFR one and moved it up and back on the right side of the tunnel so I could reach it with the 5 point harness on. The stock location was too far away for me (I'm 5'9") Was a PIA on a finished car but having that work was important to me. My car also came with the submarine belt not installed. Thankfully, they were in a box of spare parts that came with the car so I installed them. Understanding how the 5 point belts work, I simply don't understand the reasoning to not install the submarine belt. In a crash you're head is going to easily rise above the roll bar height. The submarine belt keeps the shoulders straps down and prevents your body from rising up in the seat. It also prevents the lap belt from rising up. The lap belt needs to be across your hip bone. If it's at your stomach the internal injuries from even a minor crash are gonna suck.

[GTBradley]

…The "dirty dozen" are human factors we all should be aware of.

https://skybrary.aero/articles/human-factors-dirty-dozen

That’s a good list, but I’d reorder it to have complacency and distraction at numbers 1 and 2. The example I like to use is, sometimes it isn’t the deer that suddenly bounds across the road in front of you that is the problem. It’s that you aren’t expecting a second one.

[GTBradley]

169357

Being 6'6" with extra long monkey arms makes me just able to reach the parking brake with the harness on.You kill me Terry! After you posted “My face is not very pretty, but it is the only one I have.” I almost posted something goofy about you having the loveliest face on a big old, friendly ape I’ve ever seen, but thought better of it and then you go and top me.:p I will confirm for everyone that he is without a doubt the biggest ape I’ve ever seen drive a Cobra. And for the record, I’m about 5’10”, standing up and no, I’m not standing in a hole! in the picture.

[CraigS]

Most parking brakes are not adequate as an emergency brake. A lot of FFRs have a Mustang park brake which operates the exact same brake pads that were already toast in the video. Some systems have a small drum brake setup inside the rear rotor. Not sure how that would be affected in this case by the already burning brakes. Maybe a little better but the internal park brakes I have worked on were tiny so, even if they were not yet burning, they wouldn't do much. Unfortunately we are still left w/ an ignition switch that wasn't turned off and a trans that could have been put in neutral. A real shame for everyone involved.

[rich grsc]

Well Rich, do you know what the rear braking system is on this car? Does it have drums? If you do, please don't keep it a secret.
No I do not, but he says in the video it's a 20 year old brake system.
Well John I guess you just want to argue

[GoDadGo]

The two big takeaways for me are:

1. If you have to ride the brakes because your throttle is hanging, fix it.
2. If you are getting into a moving vehicle, then properly put on your seat belts.
3. Don't let a lack of common sense become an issue, which happens to us all around cool cars.

I'm thrilled that nobody was killed, but this accident was likely preventable.

[Bob Cowan]

Years ago it was popular to place the parking brake on the floor, between the driver's seat and the door.

In this situation, the e-brake would probably not have been helpful. The wilwood systems of 20 years ago provided for cable actuation of the caliper. The pads were already overheated and glazed, and the fluid was probably already boiling. Newer systems have a second non-hydraulic caliper.

Placing the transmission in Neutral would have helped. Same as depressing the clutch.

[egchewy79]

you see the driver push the transmission into neutral in the video, but it seems like they continue to accelerate for some reason. not sure if steering into that right lane of cars, sideswiping all of them, might have slowed down his momentum better than hitting that van from behind. there also was a window where he could have steered into the grass/sidewalk area on the right before the cars were lined up in the right lane. I'm sure in that split second you can't analyze options as quickly as we can watching the video.

[GTBradley]

It was an automatic transmission and it wasn’t pulling anymore because the driver slams the shifter all the way forward. You can hear the parking lock clacking, but that does nothing at speed and is just like going to neutral. Shifting down to first would normally help but the high idle was a problem. I think the driver probably couldn’t have done anything else to change things after brake fade set in.

The thing that has me wondering now is what effect overheated discs might have on our Wilwood emergency brake system. I’ve always liked the fact that it is separate from the main braking system (except the discs) and I assumed that since the pads of the e-brake would not be over-heated that it would work even with overheated brake discs. Does anyone really know if brake fade is more about the disc or the pads?

[GTBradley]

For the record, Terry, I guess I have spider monkey arms because I can still reach my handle too, even with the five point tightened up. I guess there’s finally an advantage to having short little legs and and a longer upper half.

[GTBradley]

Years ago it was popular to place the parking brake on the floor, between the driver's seat and the door.

In this situation, the e-brake would probably not have been helpful. The wilwood systems of 20 years ago provided for cable actuation of the caliper. The pads were already overheated and glazed, and the fluid was probably already boiling. Newer systems have a second non-hydraulic caliper.

Placing the transmission in Neutral would have helped. Same as depressing the clutch.

That’s a good point, Bob, his brakes suddenly and easily went to the floor. That indicates to me that the brake fluid gave up the ghost first as it had reached boiling point and went to a gaseous state. That makes me wonder too if he used dot 3 in it and I’d bet good money he did. If it was boiling brake fluid a cable e-brake would have slowed them significantly, I’ve tried it. It takes a while but they had a good bit of distance.

[JohnK]

Also keep in mind that the force of impact goes up with the square of speed, so even if an e-brake only scrubs 10mph prior to impact that's a significant reduction in impact force. In a situation like this, with that amount of reaction time, an e-brake likely would not have stopped that car but it could have made a huge difference in the outcome nonetheless.

[J R Jones]

Years ago it was popular to place the parking brake on the floor, between the driver's seat and the door.

In this situation, the e-brake would probably not have been helpful. The wilwood systems of 20 years ago provided for cable actuation of the caliper. The pads were already overheated and glazed, and the fluid was probably already boiling. Newer systems have a second non-hydraulic caliper.

Placing the transmission in Neutral would have helped. Same as depressing the clutch.

Owning a 2006 pick-up in WI with 191K miles has lead to recent rust induced brake failures. The 3/16 steel lines rust until they become porous.
The first time was last year 35 miles from home, and a front line let go. I carefully drove to the closest retailer and bought fluid. With refills I got home. With almost no fronts, the rears are weak at best. The fluid reservoir is common. When the M/C goes dry, both front and rear will starve.
Two weeks ago a rear steel line went porous going down my 8% grade driveway. The fronts were barely adequate but again the common reservoir dictated I park the truck. The pedal operate emergency brake mechanically actuated the rear shoes for some added stopping power.

In the case of this 64 Comet, the original M/Cyl would have served all four brakes. They likely were drums originally. The car could have been upgraded to front and maybe four disc brakes and a dual reservoir M/Cyl.

Having road raced a 66 Shelby GT350 I am familiar with stress brake failure of that period. Heat glazing will reduce performance of disc brakes, shoes not so much.
Boiling the fluid results in almost no line pressure, and with the original 1964 M/Cyl no brake function. The driver pumping the brake suggests that is what happened.

Panic and inexperience contributed. As CraigS has commented previously, autocross experience can provide muscle memory to respond immediately without thought, like taking the grass on the right.
jim

[GTBradley]

I thought of that too, Jim, but the trees up there concern me more that hitting a movable object. Get that wrong and you have bigger problems than teeth.

[Hoooper]

The thing that has me wondering now is what effect overheated discs might have on our Wilwood emergency brake system. I’ve always liked the fact that it is separate from the main braking system (except the discs) and I assumed that since the pads of the e-brake would not be over-heated that it would work even with overheated brake discs. Does anyone really know if brake fade is more about the disc or the pads?

The wilwood pads being separate would make a huge difference in this case (because they arent on the failed hydraulic system) but would likely overheat very quickly if applied to a disc thats already really hot from someone driving around riding the brakes. The pads are pretty small, have little mass on them, and are likely designed to be pretty aggressive when cold, so they would heat up and fail quickly, but assuming the driver learns from the experience and doesnt just try to drive off again they should only need to work in a panic once.

Brake fade is about the pads mostly. Based on the video this had nothing to do with the pads and everything to do with a hydraulic failure. When the pads get hot and fade they still work, just increasingly less as you add heat beyond their limit. Even if the pads are so toasted they start to chunk or even disintegrate entirely leaving just the backing plate you still have some braking capacity from the backing plate on the rotor (he said he had just turned the rotors, so disc brakes). Rotors have to get WAY beyond a normal street pad operating temp range to suddenly fail, you would know there is a serious problem long before the rotor fails. He was pumping the brakes and had 0 there, thats definitely hydraulic failure

[J R Jones]

I thought of that too, Jim, but the trees up there concern me more that hitting a movable object. Get that wrong and you have bigger problems than teeth.

Brad,
Something similar to the Hippocratic oath comes to mind "primum non nocere,".
Under the circumstances the car and driver are inevitably a write-off. Innocent victims lay ahead, take the green, take the trees, limit the casualties.
jim

[Jeff Kleiner]

Brake fade is about the pads mostly. Based on the video this had nothing to do with the pads and everything to do with a hydraulic failure. When the pads get hot and fade they still work, just increasingly less as you add heat beyond their limit. Even if the pads are so toasted they start to chunk or even disintegrate entirely leaving just the backing plate you still have some braking capacity from the backing plate on the rotor (he said he had just turned the rotors, so disc brakes). Rotors have to get WAY beyond a normal street pad operating temp range to suddenly fail, you would know there is a serious problem long before the rotor fails. He was pumping the brakes and had 0 there, thats definitely hydraulic failure

Boiled fluid acts like a hydraulic failure. If the pads and rotors got hot enough to glaze it’s likely that the calipers got hot enough to boil fluid, particularly if that fluid had been in the system for a long period of time drawing in moisture (or even worse if he fell into the silicone DOT5 trap like a lot of show cars use).

Jeff

[Hoooper]

Boiled fluid acts like a hydraulic failure. If the pads and rotors got hot enough to glaze it’s likely that the calipers got hot enough to boil fluid, particularly if that fluid had been in the system for a long period of time drawing in moisture (or even worse if he fell into the silicone DOT5 trap like a lot of show cars use).

Jeff

Yeah, boiled fluid IS a hydraulic failure. That is what I would assume happened.

[Fman]

For those interested a little more discussion on what happened including some more info on the driver of the mini-van. I will give Shawn credit from AutotopiaLA by exposing this accident it will hopefully cause some people to upgrade safety gear, brakes, etc. They put their business at risk by releasing this video, I hope they can continue to do build reviews. There are many good points we can all take away from this.


https://youtu.be/J1pzE4weOp4

[frankeeski]

I see a lot of comments here. Many are valid, armchair quarterback, could'a, should'a would'a comments. Many of which I agree with. I haven't posted here for some time for good reason. This however is a good reason. Don't praise this guy from "Auto whatever it is". He's like a bartender that keeps feeding you drinks and then let's you leave with your car keys. He is directly responsible for this. They shoot these videos, on the street, in un-controllable situations. Just look back to the electric Cobra they did a while back where they nearly loose control of that car. This video is well produced because they have a production company making and editing these videos. This isn't a guy filming in his shop with his cellphone and editing it on his laptop. Something I know a little about. With every view, this a*****e is making money from this. If it were me, and it's not, I'd take down the link to this video as it clearly violates the charter of this forum. I would instead post the video from Uncle Tony with his take on this whole thing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgdkyLCF38A

Bottom line is, this horse should have never left the stable. A poor running, poorly build show car with every aftermarket safety part that was never installed properly or used properly. Both these morons are ruining it for the rest of us.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Can’t disagree with you Frank; thanks for saying what I’ve been thinking. The bartender analogy is a good one since the owner/driver's judgement was clouded because he was drunk on what he thought would be his 15 minutes of fame. Now he has that 15 minutes and more, but for a different reason.

Jeff

[J R Jones]

Fman and Frank, Thank you, this confirms and explains a lot. You and Tony are right.
These guys are amateurs with a You Tube channel. The lead guy was (and still is) a musician. None of the four are engineers or automotive media professionals. They do not employ a technical advisor.
They are making money endangering the public testing cars on the street.
If they are not sued into oblivion, I will be surprised.
jim

[GTBradley]

Completely dumbfounded on how that input can be considered valuable! We all thought of all of the things said in the video. But let's face it there is a sh@t ton of people out there making videos and doing stupid things in their cars. What we need is some positive input and the fact the original video makers came forward and didn't try to cover any thing up is a net positive. That's the real value in all of this, attacking them isn't helpful. Let me show you how easy it is: Your guy admitted to being too dumb to drive high hp cars, motorcycles. And carrying a deadly weapon in public for longest time because of his temper, so now he does? You think he fixed his temper? You think he's really smart enough to make the right decisions in a panic situation? Please! Almost no one does without practicing emergency scenarios beforehand. And he's not smart enough, or honest enough to admit it. See how easy that was? And don't forget that he's advertising too.

Look at how many people have stayed positive here and gain from the information. Forum members are rethinking safety systems and fixing things on their cars. Take the link to the video down you say? What the Hell for? People are learning from it. Learning how to be safer. I don't like the street racing video people either, but I do commend these guys for being honest. The guy how says he doesn't want to put people down and then proceeds to only highlights what's wrong in the youtube industry not what to do about it.

[GTBradley]

Frank, Thank you, this confirms and explains a lot. You and Tony are right.
These guys are amateurs with a You Tube channel. The lead guy was (and still is) a musician. None of the four are engineers or automotive media professionals. They do not employ a technical advisor.
They are making money endangering the public testing cars on the street.
If they are not sued into oblivion, I will be surprised.
jim
...and that would for sure stop them...and then what? Does it stop the rest?

[GTBradley]

Brad,
Something similar to the Hippocratic oath comes to mind "primum non nocere,".
Under the circumstances the car and driver are inevitably a write-off. Innocent victims lay ahead, take the green, take the trees, limit the casualties.
jim
The well proven approach in aviation is with a dead engine, on a single engine plane, is to put it down straight ahead as possible taking into account people on the ground. So many people die trying a desperate return to the airport because they think it's safer. My good friend Jason tried. RIP. You try that grass approach and find a lady and her stroller on the sidewalk you couldn't see before and you'll wish you had just crashed straight ahead into a minivan that is obviously designed for it.

[Dave 53]

Watching shows like Jay Leno's Garage, Seinfeld's Comedians In Cars Getting Coffee, and most TV shows in general, it seems they never wear a shoulder belt. I don't get it.

I do recall one episode of Jay Leno's Garage where the producers wouldn't let Jay ride in a car because it was too unsafe - a home built Burning Man car. So, they do care a bit about safety, but not enough to wear shoulder belts?????

I bet there was a discussion and the film crew asked the owner to remove the shoulder straps.

[GTBradley]

I agree, it's so common in movies to not use the belts at all, which makes me think about how this is just a movie because in real life people do use them.

[BradCraig]

As someone said above, a LOT of folks rethinking the safety of their rides. I'm revisiting the seats and seatbelts in my '67 Camaro, I now know the shi**y lap belts do nothing.

[Fman]

I see a lot of comments here. Many are valid, armchair quarterback, could'a, should'a would'a comments. Many of which I agree with. I haven't posted here for some time for good reason. This however is a good reason. Don't praise this guy from "Auto whatever it is". He's like a bartender that keeps feeding you drinks and then let's you leave with your car keys. He is directly responsible for this. They shoot these videos, on the street, in un-controllable situations. Just look back to the electric Cobra they did a while back where they nearly loose control of that car. This video is well produced because they have a production company making and editing these videos. This isn't a guy filming in his shop with his cellphone and editing it on his laptop. Something I know a little about. With every view, this a*****e is making money from this. If it were me, and it's not, I'd take down the link to this video as it clearly violates the charter of this forum. I would instead post the video from Uncle Tony with his take on this whole thing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgdkyLCF38A

Bottom line is, this horse should have never left the stable. A poor running, poorly build show car with every aftermarket safety part that was never installed properly or used properly. Both these morons are ruining it for the rest of us.

Thanks for posting up this link he does a good job explaining everything this guy did wrong and what he should have done to help reduce his speed, could not agree more with what he said along with the liability on both of them. It was obvious from the get go there are plenty of red flags flying about the car even being on the road. Hopefully people seeing someone hit the dash not wearing their harness makes you realize why it is important to have them on and installed properly. After 26 years in my profession you realize that some people are just not smart and make poor choices with consequences. My "hope" to posting up this video is people watching will take away some safety tips, build a better car, perform routine checks on critical components and have a plan B ready just incase something goes wrong.

[GoDadGo]

A few years back I watched quite a few of "Uncle Tony's Video" and he actually helped me better understand the Edelbrock Carb, but I digress. The "Bar Tender Analogy" really hit home for me because the owner just wanted to show off his dream car, as do we all. Well it cost them both some serious injuries, money and future lawsuits.

Like e Uncle Tony, I do stupid things when a car is better and faster than my ability to drive it. For the record, it took me several months to work my way up from 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000, 5500 & 6000 RPM rev-limits on my car. Heck, I still haven't bumped the limiter up past the 6000 mark even though the engine had an intended 6500 RPM Redline.

[ggunter]

Lots has been said watching these two videos, but the Monday morning quarter back, UTG guy is a bit off when he says he would have gotten engine drag to slow the car if he shut down the ignition. Yes the car would start to slow from the engine not pulling, (which would have helped some), but if the engine is not turning then the trans pump is not turning and essentially the trans is in free wheel other than maybe a tiny bit of internal friction, so down shifting would be of no use when the internal clutches relax from no pressure. The whole thing is tragic, and my take away, to always use your shoulder belts which I would occasionally do, but now my car won't move until they are on. The whole thing is sad.

[J R Jones]

Switching from the mistakes and poor judgement to Kudos and projecting:
The You Tube Channel crew identify the car impacted as a "mini van" and a male driver. Actually the car struck was a late model Honda SUV and I say Kudos to Honda Engineering for creating a vehicle that withstood this impact and protected the driver; I predict that the SUV was totaled.
I will also predict that my Fiat Abarth daily driver would not have saved me, a 90in wheelbase and 2500 lb. does not offer much protection.
Consider how you and your partner would have fared in your replica under these circumstances.

I do not want to share the road with boneheads like the video participants.
jim

[GTBradley]

I have to say that I have nothing but respect for people coming forward and being honest about their mistakes. These guys doing videos of burnouts on public streets are the problem and there are multitudes of them out there, everybody is trying to make a name for themselves. But, these AutotopiaLA guys were brutally honest about their own mistakes and no one else ranting about what they should or shouldn't have done in the panicked seconds before impact is doing anyone any good because they are unqualified to do so, ask any accident investigator from the NTSB and you'll get the same answer. I learned literally nothing from that kind of thing. We need to honor honesty not armchair quarterbacking. You can learn so much from honest people, but attacking them for it will shut others up for fear of your retaliation. And it is literally attacking them for their honesty, because if they were shifty little liars they would have never posted the details for the world to see. I don't care about the claims that they only did it for views because there is no way ad revenue would overcome liability here. They could do themselves a favor and announce that revenue gained from this event would be donated, but it still wouldn't change things for me. The benefit is in the discussion we have had about safety and that only came about because of the brutal honesty.

I also hope people understand that switching the ignition off needs to be considered carefully. Just throwing that out there without cautioning against turning the key too far in a car with locking steering can make things so much worse for those thinking it is a good idea now.

[svassh]

I also hope people understand that switching the ignition off needs to be considered carefully. Just throwing that out there without cautioning against turning the key too far in a car with locking steering can make things so much worse for those thinking it is a good idea now.

That is a VERY good point!

[GTBradley]

Here's what Hagerty had to say about it and no they didn't speculate about it, they squarely blame the driver for lack of judgment (what I would call safety procedures) before the brakes failed.

This Mercury Comet's brake failure can be a lesson for us all. (https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/this-mercury-comets-brake-failure-can-be-a-lesson-for-us-all/)

[mburger]

Link won’t open.

[J R Jones]

Link won’t open.

Mark,
Hagerty Media is a enthusiast entertainment site published weekly for Media members. It can range from good to great, but it is entertainment, not business or science. Kyle Smith is a Jr writer.
I had to stop my membership when a Sr writer went with a political extreme for entertainment.

https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/this-mercury-comets-brake-failure-can-be-a-lesson-for-us-all/

jim

[GoDadGo]

I hope this fellow had a very good umbrella policy because there isn't any possible way of downplaying the incident.

[JohnK]

I hope this fellow had a very good umbrella policy because there isn't any possible way of downplaying the incident.

I'm going to venture a guess that this whole situation has already been litigated, settled, and written off. There's no way this guy's lawyer would allow him to release these videos, nor would Hagerty be publishing a public opinion on the incident, if there was ongoing litigation.

There were definitely many, many errors in judgement that led up to this incident and there's no shortage of blame to go around. Nonetheless, I still commend them for coming out publicly and admitting their screw-ups in order to raise awareness. They could have just kept quiet about the whole thing. Just looking at this thread as an indication, it sounds like there are multiple folks here that are rethinking their use of shoulder harnesses (or lack thereof) after seeing that guy's face smash into the dashboard. I guess some folks are "visual" learners. :(

[UpNorth]

This thread is priceless...
Because it is screaming at me!
And it screams: Be cautious when you'll be riding your Coupe!!!

[GTBradley]

Link won’t open.
Should be working now.

If you watch the recorded Live You Tube video event (about 50 min) you'll learn a lot. They apologize about not mentioning the minivan driver. They did know he was okay, but have not been contacted by him, so they don't know anything else. These guys may have opened up a can of worms for the Mercury driver and themselves, but they know that and still want to help anyone else to avoid their mistakes. They highlight what they plan to do in the future to insure better safety. It's an evolution for them, time will tell, but I think they have an opportunity to turn things around and become advocates for hotrod safety.

[Jacob McCrea]

I've seen my share of negligence in 18 years of practicing law. But I've never seen a situation like this, where a video gets made memorializing knowledge of the root causes of the harm, the chain of bad decisions leading up to it, and the end result. It is, as noted earlier, a "lawyer's dream" for the victim.

So much about the driver leaves me in awe: that he could spend 208k and 23 years and fail to produce a machine that is roadworthy at the most basic level; that he would risk that investment of time and money, not to mention his and others' safety, over a stuck throttle; his profound ignorance of what might happen when dragging the brakes to keep 1300 horsepower under control; and the irony that when asked about drag racing the car, he said that "too much grief has been put into this to put it into a wall or do something stupid." I had to rewind that a few times to make sure I heard that correctly. And am I correct that a typical vacuum brake booster - if it had one - would be pressurized at +2k rpm, thus creating resistance for the driver to overcome?

But I digress. This motivated me to immediately get the shoulder harnesses back in my Grand Prix, which some idiot removed before my dad bought it. And then get the e-brake on the coupe, which sits at my left like a collective handle, to work even better than it does.

[nucjd19]

That is a VERY good point!

Back in the 90s I was driving a car to college that had a faulty cruise control that would randomly jam the throttle wide open not known to me or many people at the time. It was recalled later. I was driving down the interstate heading into town to college and the cruise arbitrarily went WOT. My first instinct was to pop into neutral which immediately drove the engine to redline and then I immediately killed the engine which then immediately locked the steering wheel which I immediately kicked the engine back on reseting the problem and giving me steering back. It felt like minutes at the time but happened in mere seconds. I remember it so vividly to this day. Luckily there was no one around me as I was going to class during an off hour.I was lucky. Never used cruise control on that car ever again even after the recall.

[GTBradley]

I just remembered the Toyota stuck accelerator accident that happened back in 2009. On a California highway a family died after traveling miles at WOT. It caused international news and ultimately an enormous recall by Toyota. At the time, I remember not understanding why the driver just didn’t turn the key off. I mean they had enough time to even make a 911 call. What’s worse, the driver was a state trooper and even he couldn’t stop disaster. As it turns out the Lexus they were driving had a start stop button and it requires the button to be held down for three seconds if you want the engine to shut off while driving.

The lesson here is that even highly skilled professionals don’t think straight in panicked situations. Safety has to be practiced. Nobody reads the manual to their cars but we all should. Actually, I’d bet most of you car nerds do. Always be thinking of your way out.

[GoDadGo]

Call Morris Bart, Quick Call Morris!

https://youtu.be/N5-0M0FeMOs

Jimmy Kimmel Did!

https://youtu.be/4XxUl4Fnau4

[MB750]

Ever since I lost the front brakes on my 1994 Honda Magna heading down from Pikes Peak I've been very diligent about a 2nd option when it comes to slowing any vehicle down. It's one of the reasons I'm not a fan of automatic transmissions, and these new electronic parking brakes. Even TBW freaks me out a little but it's impossible to get around on new vehicles.

[Avalanche325]

I have got to say that I am a little shocked at how many "Now, I'll start wearing my belts" comments there are. Maybe that tragic video has done some good.

Next items up for bids:
1. Use your parking brake.
2. Use your turn signals.

[JohnK]

Since we're on the subject of proper safety belt use, please attach your sub straps properly and use them all the time. I have experience on a small scale of what happens when you use a harness without a sub strap. I went go-karting at a local kart place that only had lap and shoulder harnesses. I ended up cracking a rib when the lap harness rode up and dug into the bottom of my ribcage. A cracked rib sucks, but in a real accident that would likely have been some serious internal organ damage.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Since we're on the subject of proper safety belt use, please attach your sub straps properly and use them all the time. I have experience on a small scale of what happens when you use a harness without a sub strap. I went go-karting at a local kart place that only had lap and shoulder harnesses. I ended up cracking a rib when the lap harness rode up and dug into the bottom of my ribcage. A cracked rib sucks, but in a real accident that would likely have been some serious internal organ damage.

I thought I had spoken my piece on this thread but maybe not. You MUST use the fifth point strap. It’s purpose isn’t to catch you in “the boys”…it’s purpose is to keep the lap belt down across your hips. Without it when you cinch down the shoulder straps (you ARE using them, right?)you’ll pull the lap belt up off of your hips and up to where impact will affect internal organs. As I said earlier; all five, all the time ;)

Jeff

[cobrajj]

I'll also add--drive with your lights on always, just like most motorcyclists for visibility. Other motorists may hear the sidepipes, but can't hurt to see your headlights to.

[nucjd19]

I have got to say that I am a little shocked at how many "Now, I'll start wearing my belts" comments there are. Maybe that tragic video has done some good.

Next items up for bids:
1. Use your parking brake.
2. Use your turn signals.

Myself and anyone in my rig ALWAYS wears all straps. Rock crawling since the 90s has solidified all points of the harness must be attached when the the dirty side goes up. I have hung upside down in a harness more than once LOL!

[nucjd19]

I thought I had spoken my piece on this thread but maybe not. You MUST use the fifth point strap. It’s purpose isn’t to catch you in “the boys”…it’s purpose is to keep the lap belt down across your hips. Without it when you cinch down the shoulder straps (you ARE using them, right?)you’ll pull the lap belt up off of your hips and up to where impact will affect internal organs. As I said earlier; all five, all the time ;)

Jeff

Jeff is 100% correct. I interpret CTs every day post MVA where there are extensive subcutaneous bruises where the shoulder and lap belts are. IMO if those belts are malpositioned then the vector force will translate into the adjacent internal organs. I won't go into the sorted details of compartmental post traumatic injuries but we are talking about going home from the ER with emotional trauma only and an extended stay in the hospital secondary to surgery.

[UpstateCobraGuy]

I see a lot of comments here. Many are valid, armchair quarterback, could'a, should'a would'a comments. Many of which I agree with. I haven't posted here for some time for good reason. This however is a good reason. Don't praise this guy from "Auto whatever it is". He's like a bartender that keeps feeding you drinks and then let's you leave with your car keys. He is directly responsible for this. They shoot these videos, on the street, in un-controllable situations. Just look back to the electric Cobra they did a while back where they nearly loose control of that car. This video is well produced because they have a production company making and editing these videos. This isn't a guy filming in his shop with his cellphone and editing it on his laptop. Something I know a little about. With every view, this a*****e is making money from this. If it were me, and it's not, I'd take down the link to this video as it clearly violates the charter of this forum. I would instead post the video from Uncle Tony with his take on this whole thing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgdkyLCF38A

Bottom line is, this horse should have never left the stable. A poor running, poorly build show car with every aftermarket safety part that was never installed properly or used properly. Both these morons are ruining it for the rest of us.

That was my exact thought, lets not give them (lawyers, politicians) the steel to beat us over the head. ...and if you're going to install 1,300 hp in a car, learn how to drive it first. :mad:

[AC Bill]

Some advantages to the majority of our builds in that sort of scenario.
Our steering won't lock up if we shut the ignition off, so unlike an automatic, shutting off the engine while still in gear, our manual transmissions can be used for compression braking. Bang it into a lower gear, and the rear tires may even lock up initially. You might not come to a complete stop, (depending on the distance), but you'd scrub off a lot of speed.

[timmil]

Hey everyone, this thread really hit home with me on Friday July 29th, 2022. I run my Miata at the Autobahn Country club in Joliet and on this particular day I was out during a normal practice session. As required I was fully strapped in with my 5 point harness and wearing all the proper gear, shoes, gloves and helmet. During my run I was not over driving and have taken the corner at a faster speed then I did on this day with no problems. However, this lap as I entered the curve I heard a pop and at the time it was not unusual. But it was. Watch the video at the 12:32 mark. My rear end started to slide and I spun into the wall, popped on my side and slid about 10ft or so before coming to a stop and popping upright. The testament to the safety equipment (helmet and belts) is that I walked away with out a scratch or even a bruise. Please, I can't stress enough the importance of the 5 point harness. It saved me from something far more serious. As always, I continue to and will always wear the 5 point in not only my Miata but also my MK3.1 Cobra. The track officials said that it was one of the more dramatic incidents on the track and that it appeared to be a failure in the car and not the driver.

Here are some photos of the car after the accident along with my in car video.

170524

170525

170526

170527

170528

170529


https://youtu.be/3JLdKa4kiL4

Tim

[J R Jones]

Tim, You might look at the RR suspension links. Your RR wheel may have towed out.
jim