Building your own engine

[Pjenkins]

Hey Gents,

This is my first post on the forum, though I've been reading and following for a couple years. The dream/plan is to build a darkside (LS) powered roadster. There are numerous reasons for this, but the main one is that I just love the LS platform. I've spent the last 10 years of my life listening to the C6R and C7R roaring around at Daytona for the Rolex 24 and absolutely fell in love with that engine. There's nothing else that sounds like that.

Anyway, I want to build my own LS engine instead of just buying a pre-assembled one. I'd prefer to start with a junk yard engine (preferably a 6.0 or a 6.2) and build it out from there. Does anyone here have any experience or advice on building their own engine, especially if it's an LS engine, that they'd be willing to share? I know very little about the intricacies of assembling an engine and could use all the help I can get.

[Hoooper]

What kind of build are you going for? The best resource other than getting acquainted with a competent engine builder is going to be reliable internet pages and forums. There are millions of LS engines out there and as a result there is a ton of information on how to build them into whatever kind of build you want. I started mine with an aluminum 6.2 out of an escalade (effectively an LS3 with a smaller cam and weaker valvetrain) and built it out to be as reliable as possible for a road course engine (within reasonable budget limits). Solid roller cammotion cam, crower steel rockers, dry sump, and so on. If you are looking to build a street and cruising engine the options for an LS are limitless and frankly hard to screw up, you can even just place a call to Brian Tooley and have them spec out a complete top end for you. If you are looking to build something more serious, built bottom end, etc. you will have to do a lot more reading to get the results you are looking for. The vast majority of builds that are going to be used exclusively for the street and maybe autocross are best served with just a cam, pushrod, lifter, and valvetrain upgrade. If you get a gen 3 engine you would want to add an intake manifold to that list.

https://i.postimg.cc/MHzGkNJ7/20220106-223943-1.jpg

[narly1]

I built my own engine albeit it was a Ford 302. My feeling is that the newer and more complex the engine design is, the greater your chances of failure become. By going with an older, simpler engine I was able to draw on a vast pool of knowledge and past experience as to what works...I didn't re-invent the wheel so to speak.

Narly1

[Pjenkins]

What kind of build are you going for? The best resource other than getting acquainted with a competent engine builder is going to be reliable internet pages and forums. There are millions of LS engines out there and as a result there is a ton of information on how to build them into whatever kind of build you want. I started mine with an aluminum 6.2 out of an escalade (effectively an LS3 with a smaller cam and weaker valvetrain) and built it out to be as reliable as possible for a road course engine (within reasonable budget limits). Solid roller cammotion cam, crower steel rockers, dry sump, and so on. If you are looking to build a street and cruising engine the options for an LS are limitless and frankly hard to screw up, you can even just place a call to Brian Tooley and have them spec out a complete top end for you. If you are looking to build something more serious, built bottom end, etc. you will have to do a lot more reading to get the results you are looking for. The vast majority of builds that are going to be used exclusively for the street and maybe autocross are best served with just a cam, pushrod, lifter, and valvetrain upgrade. If you get a gen 3 engine you would want to add an intake manifold to that list.

https://i.postimg.cc/MHzGkNJ7/20220106-223943-1.jpg

My idea was to take a 6.0 or a 6.2 and put the crank from a 4.8 in it. I want a big bore and a short stroke to make it a rev happy smaller (relatively speaking) displacement engine. I want to redline between 7000-8000 rpm. 8000 is probably a little unrealistic with a pushrod engine, but 7 is definitely possible. This'll be primarily used for carving up mountain roads around North Carolina and the occasional autocross, so I won't be spending a lot of time near redline. I don't think I'll ever put it on a track, at least not to compete. From what (little) I know, hydraulic roller cams seem to require less maintenance than solid roller, but my education on the topic is pitiful. I want it to run on pump gas, preferably 87 octane if possible. I was thinking about a holley midrise for the intake manifold. It helps get rid of some torque (these are light roadsters, I don't want 500lb-ft) and makes higher rpm more achievable. All that being said, I'm open to just about anything within those parameters.

[Rdone585]

Hooper, one interesting difference between the LS and Ford dry sump is the external oil pump location. For some reason, the LS puts the oil pump on the driver side, and the Ford (or at least small blocks) it's on the passenger side. In my MK II engine bay that meant my oil tank had to go on the driver side right in the way of power steering. So I had to eliminate power steering from the build. Not a terrible thing with these light cars, but limits the amount of castor you can dial in.

[Pjenkins]

I built my own engine albeit it was a Ford 302. My feeling is that the newer and more complex the engine design is, the greater your chances of failure become. By going with an older, simpler engine I was able to draw on a vast pool of knowledge and past experience as to what works...I didn't re-invent the wheel so to speak.

Narly1

What specifically about modern engines makes the build more complex in your opinion? Is it the VVT? The electronic controls? I definitely prefer fewer points of failure.

[Mike N]

Rec port heads flow a lot of air so you won't have to entertain a head swap if you start with a 6.2 motor. An L92 truck motor would be a great starting point. Add a decent cam and with the FFR headers I would expect you to be over 500 HP. Adding an aftermarket lower profile intake like the Holley will kill a little bottom end torque which is in line with your plan. Richard Holdener has a bunch of stuff on LS stuff. Here is a video on an LS3 destroked motor versus a stroked motor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN7HkPCnxOI&list=PLM8JsB6QR-TYly8TXmvaSZzCno32AbaUh&index=95

[Alan_C]

There are many books and other resources, like YouTube, that you can draw from. Just like building one of these cars, start by making a plan. You need to answer questions like which engine and what cars/trucks can it be found in a junk yard. There are folks out there that specialize in pulling known running LS engines and reselling them on a pallet with engine, electronics and harness.
If you are going to build your own, you will need a competent machine shop to go through the engine and verify the block is useable.
While I admire your desire to build your own, if you have not done this before consider the cost of special tools you may need to use one or just a few times. Maybe buying a short block build to your specs and building it up from there might be a good alternative.

Watch some Engine Masters episodes that are LS specific. A recent episode took a used engine and added a cam and heads and generated far more HP than a Cobra really needs.

Good luck.

[Hoooper]

My idea was to take a 6.0 or a 6.2 and put the crank from a 4.8 in it. I want a big bore and a short stroke to make it a rev happy smaller (relatively speaking) displacement engine. I want to redline between 7000-8000 rpm. 8000 is probably a little unrealistic with a pushrod engine, but 7 is definitely possible. This'll be primarily used for carving up mountain roads around North Carolina and the occasional autocross, so I won't be spending a lot of time near redline. I don't think I'll ever put it on a track, at least not to compete. From what (little) I know, hydraulic roller cams seem to require less maintenance than solid roller, but my education on the topic is pitiful. I want it to run on pump gas, preferably 87 octane if possible. I was thinking about a holley midrise for the intake manifold. It helps get rid of some torque (these are light roadsters, I don't want 500lb-ft) and makes higher rpm more achievable. All that being said, I'm open to just about anything within those parameters.

I would stick to 7k for those wishes. I can set my redline to 8 safely (as safe as 8k can be with a 3.622 stroke) with a very rigid and lightweight solid roller valvetrain and forged bottom end but even with the work Ive done I still leave it to 7700 for a little safe margin (4,650 FPM mean piston speed), and really theres not much benefit revving it out there anyway even with a setup that peaks past 7200. For a canyon carver I would be inclined to not go much over 7k or maybe just limit to 4000 FPM using stock pistons, you will save a lot of money keeping it down there and just running low travel hydraulic lifters, upgraded pushrods, a nice cam, and stock bottom end parts with that 4.8 crank. I would stay away from that holley mid rise intake though, thats one of the worse intakes on the market for an LS. Better off with a FAST 102 or MSD atomic if youre using cathedral port heads, or a modded stock LS3 intake if youre using rectangle port heads. I would highly recommend getting a cam package from cammotion, very well respected for these engines and they will put you together with something with low enough dynamic compression that you can run 87 octane if you tell them thats what you want.


Hooper, one interesting difference between the LS and Ford dry sump is the external oil pump location. For some reason, the LS puts the oil pump on the driver side, and the Ford (or at least small blocks) it's on the passenger side. In my MK II engine bay that meant my oil tank had to go on the driver side right in the way of power steering. So I had to eliminate power steering from the build. Not a terrible thing with these light cars, but limits the amount of castor you can dial in.

My setup is an AVIAID dry sump that could be configured to sit on either side of the engine but yeah definitely the passenger side is preferable on this car. Not a whole lot of room on either side, I am impressed you fit a tank on the driver's side! My pump is on the passenger side.

[FF33rod]

I had a similar desire, just wanted to build my own as it seemed in keeping with the whole built and not bought theme. Didn't go LS, I went with a SBF 347. Similar to me, it sounds like you don't have a machine shop in the garage with the right tools and experience to do all the necessary machining on a used block, few people do. Accordingly, I went with an already prepped 347 shortblock from a reputable california company. I researched the add on bits needed to achieve my goals and went forth (with some success and some failures). My conclusions: don't take this approach to save money because you won't. Someone like Blueprint Engines have attractive prices for proven combinations and have a guarantee to back it up. If you do get a shortblock or other assembly from a vendor, talk about the warranty process if you run into troubles. I'm in Canada and the shortblock vendor was in California and the timeframe was early covid (borders closed). This made resolving the crack in the #1 cylinder, that developed within hours of first engine start, rather problematic. If I were to ever go the route of building an engine again, it would be with a fresh, new aftermarket block and I'd work with a local vendor for ease of resolving issues....

Good luck! Steve

[narly1]

What specifically about modern engines makes the build more complex in your opinion? Is it the VVT? The electronic controls? I definitely prefer fewer points of failure.

I figured that the less I had to learn new the better on my 1st attempt. The 302 is a single cam pushrod engine with a history of being fairly bulletproof if done right. I also wanted engine with minimal emissions add-ons to contend with. All I reused was the block, main caps & bolts, crankshaft, rods, cam retainer and timing cover. For fuel delivery I went with an Edelbrock Proflo 4 which was also pretty straightforward for a newbie. It works.

Narly1

[Joel Hauser]

I assembled my own 4.6 that I pulled from my mustang donor. It was not cheap. I wouldn't be surprised if I spent more on my engine than what I would have spent on an engine from a reputable builder. Good machine work is expensive. Also, machine shops are very busy, and you may have to wait months before they get around to your engine. New crankshaft, pistons, bearings, head bolts, oil and water pump - it all adds up pretty quickly. Choosing parts can make your head spin. Cam shafts? there seems to be dozens to choose from. All that said, assembly of a motor with clean, new and machined parts is not that difficult, and when you're done you can say you did it. Buy a good torque wrench. Triple check your timing marks.

[richtersand]

One piece of advice I got along these lines is to look at local trade schools / community colleges. Some of the have engine rebuild classes with all the expertise and tools you need.

[Bob Cowan]

Rebuilding an engine is not that difficult. If Joe-Bubba can do it on the porch of his mobile home, so can you. The trick is to pay careful attention to detail. Be OCD about it. If 7 pistons go in like they should, but the 8th does not, stop until you find out why.

I've rebuilt a lot of engines, and I enjoy the process. It's a zen thing.

The LS platform is probably the best production car engine ever produced. Simple, reliable, and almost indestructible. I bought a used LS6 with about 50K miles on it. I installed it in my race car, and ran it for 4 seasons. Then I overhauled it, and I'm still running it.