Hank's Type 65 Build Thread

[rhk118]

Adding a TOC here for interest. I haven't done anything unique with my build that others haven't done (except not many with electric steering), and all my ideas came from all the other excellent folks on here who have documented their builds. I'd like to thank them and this community at large for all the help!

Table of Contents

01. Build Details (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=494494&viewfull=1#post494494)
02. FFR Visit & Delivery, Garage Setup, Inventory (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=494496&viewfull=1#post494496)
03. Manual Steering Rack & Breeze Offset Rack Mounts (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=498946&viewfull=1#post498946)
04. Aluminum Panels - Everyone's Favorite, Breeze Locking Gas Cap (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=498947&viewfull=1#post498947)
05. More Panels (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=499806&viewfull=1#post499806)
06. Yet More Aluminum and Storage Box (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=503920&viewfull=1#post503920)
07. QA1 Shocks - Steering Wheel to NRG Quick Release (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=498948&viewfull=1#post498948)
08. Russ Thompson Steering Column (changed majorly later with electric steering unit) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=499037&viewfull=1#post499037)
09. Radiator & Breeze Radiator Shroud (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=499810&viewfull=1#post499810)
10. Front Transmission Aluminum Panel & Rear Storage Box (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=500140&viewfull=1#post500140)
11. Suspension, Hubs, and I'm a Knuckle-Head! (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=500711&viewfull=1#post500711)
12. Transmission Musings... (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=502428&viewfull=1#post502428)
13. Fuel Tank (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=503925&viewfull=1#post503925)
14. Rear 3.55 Differential, Suspension (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=504478&viewfull=1#post504478)
15. Brakes (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=508114&viewfull=1#post508114)
16. Fuel Lines (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=508118&viewfull=1#post508118)
17. Fuel and Brake Lines (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=509704&viewfull=1#post509704)
18. Rear Swaybar...to use or not use? That is the question... (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=509742&viewfull=1#post509742)
19. Engine - 347 Stroker Build (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=510111&viewfull=1#post510111)
20. Engine Dyno Day (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=534698&viewfull=1#post534698)
21. Dyno Results (on straight carb, not EFI) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=514118&viewfull=1#post514118)
22. Battery Mount, Scott’s Hotrod Triple Reservoir (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=515069&viewfull=1#post515069)
23. Wheels, Tires... (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=515074&viewfull=1#post515074)
24. Wilwood Brake Bias Adjuster with Tilton 90-Degree Angle Adapter (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=533822&viewfull=1#post533822)
25. Transmission Tunnel to Dash Custom Panel (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=535787&viewfull=1#post535787)
26. Seats and Seat Mount Musings (Corbeau 1" and 2" Mounts, Breeze Angled Mount (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=537050&viewfull=1#post537050)
27. Dash (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=538235&viewfull=1#post538235)
28. Roller! (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=540427&viewfull=1#post540427)
29. Electric Power Steering Module (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=544493&viewfull=1#post544493)
30. Electric Power Steering Installed with Russ Thompson Turn Signal, Mocking up a Front Splitter (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43135-Hank-s-Type-65-Build-Thread&p=546071&viewfull=1#post546071)

[rhk118]

Hank’s Build Thread - Updated with most non-kit parts I've used for reference. Please post in this thread with any questions, thoughts, suggestions, or dad-jokes! PMs also welcome.

Hello everyone! Well my coupe kit has arrived after placing the order in early November 2021, so it is time to start a build thread that I will do my best to keep updated. Having no background in the automotive realm (or building anything, really) I feel I have no business building one of these so like many of you I will need help, but here I am!

My plan is for street use and track days (maybe 2-4 a year) so I prefer the "trackable street car" over the "streetable track car" as the nature of the final build, if that’s a “thing” with these.

I’ve been on the forum since placing the order and appreciate all the help I have received from fellow members, as well as the vendors I’ve worked with in sourcing parts (and spent a lot of time talking to). I know there are questions I don’t even know I have or should be asking, so please chime in!

I welcome and appreciate all feedback, for better or worse…please be honest!


Kit Order
• Gen 3 powder coated black
• Stainless headers
• Coupe Nose Scoops
• Body Cut-outs
• Coupe GPS Gauge Set
• A/C kit
• Black Carpet Kit
• Floormats
• Lowback Vintage Race Seats
• Hydraulic clutch master cylinder kit
• Independent Rear Suspension
• Front and rear swaybars
• 17" Halibrands
• Leather and Wooden Steering wheel (one for track, one for show, maybe both for each, haha!)
• Manual Rack – planning electric steering assist


Parts from vendors
• Levy Racing - 6 Piston front / 4 rear Wilwood Brakes with electronic parking brake, brake bias adjuster, QA1 Double Adjustable shocks with 600/350# springs, high flow fuel system, wheel spacers
• Mike Forte – Close ratio T-56 Magnum, Custom cut Quick Time bell housing, IRS 3.55 Rear diff and knuckles, external hydraulic clutch slave, RAM Clutch and Pressure Plate, Mechanical Throttle linkage
• Boig - Cool Tubes
• Breeze Automotive - Fan Shroud, Offset rack mounts, LED headlight kit, Angled seat mounts, Braided fuel lines, Most AN-Fittings, misc. electronic bits
• EPAS Performance - Electric steering kit for FFR Roadster
• 520 Speedworks - Hi/Lo Beam and Taillight controller
• FormaCars - Power Window Kit
• GAS-N - Coupe Stainless side pipes
• Russ Thompson - Steering column / switch, pontoon covers. RIP Russ. I really enjoyed our conversations on the phone and your hand-written personalized instructions. Integrity. You are missed.


Drivetrain
• T-56 close ratio magnum
• Quick Time bell housing
• Mike Forte’s external hydraulic slave cylinder in lieu of throw-out bearing
• 3.55 Rear Diff
• EPAS Performance Electric Steering (variable ratio adjustable assist)
• Building a 347 Stroker with a local engine shop from a 1974 302 block. Cage, roller rockers, forged internals, AFR headers, rear sump Champ pan, Jim Inglese 8-Stack EFI with short horns, Vintage Air Front Runner "compact" engine front build kit, Terminator X ECU


Seats
• Up in the Air On These - Have Corbeau Evolution X and Vintage Racing Seats (Kit)
• Intratrim???


Other
•

[rhk118]

Engine - Well I'm not entirely without help. A good friend of mine has a shop and builds hot rods / restores old cars but never throws anything away that may be of value down the road (aren't we all the same way? I'm just always out of space). He had a 302 taken out of a 1974 Bronco many, many years ago sitting in storage with no use until now. So after ordering my kit, he offered it and we took it apart and the block to a local engine shop to take a look. They said it looked to be in good shape and no reason not to use it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168000&d=1655003349


Cleaned up:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167984&d=1654975231

[rhk118]

I received a call from Factory Five that the kit would be ready about a month sooner than expected. As I live within a few hours of Factory Five and still had some questions about speccing the kit and what parts come with which options...etc. drove down there to ask questions and finalize things rather than peppering them with email and/or phone calls. Arrived and walked in just after they opened and Dave Smith was in the showroom cleaning the cars. He said it best by emphasizing the community of people that have grown up around these cars.

Took the tour with the place in full production mode. Overall what a great group of just committed and nice people there. They are very busy but also have some cool stuff coming down the pipeline, certainly not just resting on their laurels. Didn't have an easy way to pick the kit up so had Stewart ship it, with the next truck due in a couple weeks as they were delivering out west.

Of course the best part was seeing the kit. Things got real.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167983&d=1654975231

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167982&d=1654975231

[rhk118]

Delivery & Inventory

Kit arrived just over 2 weeks ago and haven't started building yet. Just have things set up, body off, and ready to go. Kit is missing wheels (17"), hubs, spindles, axles, compressor and a bunch of A/C kit parts, entire carpet and door sill kit. All the control arms and suspension bits are otherwise accounted for which seem were backordered for quite a while on kit deliveries I've followed. Regardless with whats going on with supply chains right now, expected. And plenty to work on!

Arrival!!!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168001&d=1655005008
Unfortunately I was at work when it arrived but had a couple friends and my wife take delivery, but many pictures and movies were sent!


Once I got home got it up on jacks on my lift. Plan is to put it up when not working on it:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167980&d=1654975231

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168014&d=1655035133


Over the first weekend got the body off and transported it to storage as won't be needing it for quite a while:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167986&d=1654975279

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168013&d=1655034541


Also got the inventory done. Wasn't missing much but definitely recommend performing a full inventory. Was missing maybe 24 things, half of them being lock nuts, and the rest miscellaneous fasteners and some brake line connectors. Biggest things were 2 driving lights missing that were checked as present. I emailed my inventory and "checked off but missing" parts list to FFR and had all this stuff within a week. Also as others have done went through the boxes and pulled out the parts that will go for powder coating with lots of photos of the parts with the box they came from for easier identification later:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168012&d=1655034328

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167989&d=1654975279

[Namrups]

How exciting. Mine is due soon.

[Salty Chief 35]

Is that the “garagemahal”??? I have garage envy for sure. Best of luck with your build.
Respectfully,
Jeremie

[rhk118]

Is that the “garagemahal”??? I have garage envy for sure. Best of luck with your build.
Respectfully,
Jeremie

Haha, only if the 'boss' would let me have both sides :rolleyes:, but it is now with the coupe here! My house was built by a plumber who also had a small dump truck / plow truck in the winter and built that half of the garage big as he kept his plow truck in there. The workbench is a result of "nesting" for the Type 65 over the past 7 months. The lift is a 4 poster by forward lift and the price was the same as storing a car around here for a year so figured why not store it myself, it will pay for itself over the years...

[rhk118]

Hey Guys - Been a bit delayed getting to the car with life, but some needed parts from Factory 5 are trickling in. Just got notified of a big shipment from them yesterday so hoping that will let me get the parts to get the steering rack and column going.

One of the parts I just received seems different than prior builds which makes me happy - the defroster vent covers are now laser-cut and no longer the plastic ones that seem to warp over time....will need some cleaning up and per Paul's thread will get these powder coated flat black to avoid reflection on the windshield, and they've been added to the "for powder coating" pile once I get them cleaned up:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168631&d=1656248872


QUESTION - I am a complete newbie to this, so just would like some clarification on what to use for prepping/protecting the other parts (differential, spindles, hubs, axles, knuckles...etc.). Help me understand the difference between POR-15 and polyurethane. My understanding is POR-15 is a great sealant and good for rust treatment/prevention. Yet POR-15 also has a "polyurethane" version - are they all polyurethane or why would one choose polyurethane over POR-15? And with POR-15 application, spray or hand paint or a "little of both" depending on the part?

Also any need to prep or paint the steering rack?...mine being a manual aluminum rack...doesn't seem to be a part many have done anything to in their builds?

[rhk118]

On another note was driving home from vacation yesterday and was passed by this gorgeous specimen...looked and sounded amazing, of course we are all biased here :p :

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168637&d=1656251139

Man, they look great in person, but on the road and moving is just something else. I'm leaning toward a darker blue for mine, but this looked great and seriously rethinking now, but lots of time for that. Wife 100% approved and just said "wow," having not accompanied me to either of my visits to Factory 5. So whoever you are, great car, and if the white expedition seemed excited to see you, we were :cool:...First time seeing one in the wild...and now I want to get mine done!

(photo taken in stop and go traffic by the passenger, nobody was hurt in generating this post :rolleyes: )

[rhk118]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168763&d=1656466314

Hey guys would appreciate a little input here. Some areas of the frame have powder coat scraped or peeling off (see picture), all appear traumatic and powdercoat on the whole thing looks great, really happy with it. Areas are nothing major, just some spots here and there, primarily underneath....In addition I'm sure I'm bound to ding it here and there myself as I build.

Any recommendations on what to touch up these areas with? I have Eastman Chassis Black and POR-15 gloss black available, but doing searches seems people have done 2 layer prep and paint as well. Nothing will be visible, really I guess looking for the best protection of these areas.

[UpNorth]

Hi rhk118,

I’m 6.5 hours drive from you…On the other side of the border.
Probably go on vacation in August to catch up on the foodie scene of your city.
In the meantime, I used POR15 on parts not powder coated received from FFR. With good results.
And used it also to « seal » places…sometimes.
I must confess using Sharpie sometimes just to hide small mistakes.

[Bill-53]

Watch out for levy racing. I had a bad experience with him. Ordered an engine from him several years ago with a 4 month lead time. Took him a year to build it and only after I threatened legal action. When I went to pick the engine up it was not ready, parts were missing and there was no paper work. I eventually got the missing parts but to this day have received no paperwork. Good luck.

[rhk118]

Hi rhk118,

I’m 6.5 hours drive from you…On the other side of the border.
Probably go on vacation in August to catch up on the foodie scene of your city.
In the meantime, I used POR15 on parts not powder coated received from FFR. With good results.
And used it also to « seal » places…sometimes.
I must confess using Sharpie sometimes just to hide small mistakes.

Howdy Neighbor! Thanks for the reply. Yes have settled on the POR-15 for the bigger areas (both door hinge mounts have missing powder coat) and/or rattle can Eastwood Extreme Chassis Black depending on the area, just so the bare metal is covered. Have been guilty of the sharpie trick you speak of as well on other projects :rolleyes: and can't guarantee there won't be a spot or 2 where it is used here! If you make it down to Maine send me a message, absolutely beautiful weekend here which makes the winter worth it.

For the Rollcage that will be exposed and seen in the build - I will do the best I can to protect it during the build and if I need to then paint it towards the end before the body goes back on (or go to Sam's club and buy the 20-pack of black sharpies :D ). Thanks for your reply.

[rhk118]

Watch out for levy racing. I had a bad experience with him. Ordered an engine from him several years ago with a 4 month lead time. Took him a year to build it and only after I threatened legal action. When I went to pick the engine up it was not ready, parts were missing and there was no paper work. I eventually got the missing parts but to this day have received no paperwork. Good luck.

Thanks Bill and sorry that was your experience. So far I have nothing but great things to say about all the forum sponsors I've dealt with and as we are aware like us they are all in line for parts, seemingly random at times (I mean there are no 3/4" pillow block or 1" flange bearings anywhere in the world?). I've had extensive discussions with Gordon at Levy Racing, Mike Forte, Greg at 520 Speedworks, Georgie at GASN, Russ Thompson, and several emails with Mark Reynolds at Breeze. Everyone has been great, and whether they know it or not they all say pretty much the same things and make very similar recommendations. Gordon, Mike, Georgie, Russ and Mark have been at this quite a while and as I'm building a trackable street car all gave a lot of what I consider to be great advice on how to set up the brakes, spring rates, fuel pump, and engine heads/mounting to ensure the headers fit. I've had no issues with Levy Racing and just received my QA1 double adjustable shocks from them on Friday. I'm glad these guys have all made it through the pandemic seemingly intact, and still available as "wisdom and parts" resources for us. Gordon has been great.

Presently I think parts for these places are all feast or famine, certainly a different world than when you got your engine...there are either backlogs, or they receive a palate of parts then have to rush to catch up and get them out while conducting business and support for customers as usual. On top of that there is no single system in my kit that is complete from FFR other than the manual steering rack and body panels -- everything else is missing critical parts. Engine parts for the 347 I'm having built by a local engine shop are also having major backorders. Will be working on panel and likely seat fitting in the meantime, and as parts trickle in either from factory five, or the vendors then will build as I go. Thankfully I'm not in a rush to build this as fast as I can, and honestly if I had all the parts here, knowing me I'd then feel pressured to get as much done as quickly as possible. As for the pillow block and flange bearings I found some from Motion Industries so I can at least get the steering mocked up as need to find a way to mount electric steering as maybe the only unusual thing about my build. But all of that stream of consciousness to say I have confidence that the parts I've ordered from everyone will get here. Their willingness to communicate and their availability has been stellar.

And since its July 4th here in the states I saw this picture in Mike Forte's Shop. B-25 Mitchell Bomber. He was surprised that a "young-n" like myself (haha) knew what it was. Turns out his dad and my grandfather both flew them in WWII. This is a cool community!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168960&d=1656948759

[LateApex]

I really like this color, but aiming more for a '67 era Ford Brittany Blue. A little lighter shade.

They all look great, yes?

[LateApex]

Let me expand upon this just a little bit please.

I live in Colorado. The colors of the state flag are blue, white, gold and red. Blue for the sky, white for the snow, gold for the plains and red for the color of the soil.

I like to drive fast. One of the things I love about this state is our big back yard. Miles and miles of open road and high passes and twisties, and ... So when ripping over a mountain pass, I think having a color that mirrors the sky just above the horizon makes me a chameleon. What was that !!

The sun is also hot at 10,000'. So a light color helps, especially as am I am opting out of windows and AC, and opting in for solid heat and sound damping. Yeah, a blue that reflects the Colorado horizon should work just fine. I guess we'll see how effective the chameleon bit is - Haha!

My body is just off today to my painter. Please forgive any jitter in my text - it is one of those exiting milestones for me !!

'Nuff said

[rhk118]

Let me expand upon this just a little bit please.

I live in Colorado. The colors of the state flag are blue, white, gold and red. Blue for the sky, white for the snow, gold for the plains and red for the color of the soil.

I like to drive fast. One of the things I love about this state is our big back yard. Miles and miles of open road and high passes and twisties, and ... So when ripping over a mountain pass, I think having a color that mirrors the sky just above the horizon makes me a chameleon. What was that !!

The sun is also hot at 10,000'. So a light color helps, especially as am I am opting out of windows and AC, and opting in for solid heat and sound damping. Yeah, a blue that reflects the Colorado horizon should work just fine. I guess we'll see how effective the chameleon bit is - Haha!

My body is just off today to my painter. Please forgive any jitter in my text - it is one of those exiting milestones for me !!

'Nuff said

Congrats man! That is a great milestone. I’d love to be ripping around CO roads with you. Lighter blues look great to me, just was thinking I’d go for a deeper blue that one passed me and woah, with the shape of that car I think any color will look great on it. Lot more to go on mine than you, but it going to be getting more real for you very soon, can’t wait to see pics!

[LateApex]

Thanks Hank!

If you are like me (and I suspect many other builders), you will go through this phase of ogling every sharp looking color you see on the road, waffling between this and that :-) After that phase, I found myself back where I started - I have always liked the Brittany Blue.

Have fun!!

[bjblock]

Looking forward to following your build! I’ll be a few months behind you with a kit arriving in September. I’m also planning on electric power steering. Are you planning on using/modifying the Mk4 EPAS kit from epowersteering.com or are you going with a different solution?

[mmklaxer]

Hank’s Build Thread

Hello everyone! Well my coupe kit has arrived after placing the order in early November 2021, so it is time to start a build thread that I will do my best to keep updated. Having no background in the automotive realm (or building anything, really) I feel I have no business building one of these so like many of you I will need help, but here I am!

My plan is for street use and track days (maybe 2-4 a year) so I prefer the "trackable street car" over the "streetable track car" as the nature of the final build, if that’s a “thing” with these.

I’ve been on the forum since placing the order and appreciate all the help I have received from fellow members, as well as the vendors I’ve worked with in sourcing parts (and spent a lot of time talking to). I know there are questions I don’t even know I have or should be asking, so please chime in!

I welcome and appreciate all feedback, for better or worse…please be honest!


Kit Order:
• Gen 3 powder coated black
• Stainless headers
• Coupe Nose Scoops
• Body Cut-outs
• Coupe GPS Gauge Set
• A/C kit
• Black Carpet Kit
• Floormats
• Lowback Vintage Race Seats
• Hydraulic clutch master cylinder kit
• Independent Rear Suspension
• Front and rear swaybars
• 17" Halibrands
• Leather and Wooden Steering wheel (one for track, one for show)
• Manual Rack – planning electric steering assist


Parts from vendors:
• Levy Racing - 6 Piston front / 4 rear Wilwood Brakes with electronic parking brake, brake bias adjuster, QA1 Double Adjustable shocks with 600/350# springs, high flow fuel system, wheel spacers
• Mike Forte – Close ratio T-56 Magnum, Custom cut Quick Time bell housing, IRS 3.55 Rear diff and knuckles, external hydraulic clutch slave
• Boig - Cool Tubes
• Breeze Automotive - Fan Shroud / Offset rack mounts / LED headlight kit / misc. electronic bits
• 520 Speedworks - Hi/Lo Beam and Taillight controller, potentially a bracket for electric steering motor
• Russ Thompson - Steering column / switch, hoping to get his pontoon covers and door sills
• GAS-N - Coupe Stainless side pipes


Drivetrain:
• T-56 close ratio magnum
• Quick Time bell housing
• Mike Forte’s external hydraulic slave cylinder in lieu of throw-out bearing
• 3.55 Rear Diff
• Building a 347 Stroker with a local engine shop from a 1974 302 block. Cage, roller rockers, forged internals, AFR headers, rear sump Champ pan, 8-Stack EFI (looking at the new Speedmaster downdraft EFI with the “fast” computer).
• Given parts shortages will be a while before the engine is complete


Seats
• Likely won't use the FFR seats, really undecided here.

Sending PM re: seats

[jgray]

Hi Hank,

Very interesting thread. A "trackable street car" is very much what I am interested in. It sounds like you have gotten some valuable input from the experts you list above and I will be following along with your build.
I'm at the point where I am trying to learn enough to ask some more intelligent/advanced questions but currently I have more basic questions.

I see you are getting double adjustable shocks and I see F5 offers double adjustable also - I understand that they are more adjustable but how, and what, does this help with? In what scenarios does this impact/improve the handling?

Also, why the "close ratio" transmission. Again I understand what this means but don't necessarily how that translates into behavior of the car?

[LateApex]

I don't think anything will stand up to the steel-on-steel scraping that occurs on things like the door hinges of hood latches.

I use an ink pen, and will go through everything carefully during final assembly. Other areas like chassis bits that get marred by sheet aluminum I will touch up with a matte black spray paint. And then at some point I will ignore what I cannot see :-) Living in the Rockies, I don't have issues with corrosion. If I were in an area where salt was used on the roads or salt was in the air, I guess I would be more diligent - Hah!

BTW, I have touched up these brackets only to scrape them again with the next iteration of assemble-check-disassemble-rinse-lather-repeat :-)

[rhk118]

Hi Hank,

Very interesting thread. A "trackable street car" is very much what I am interested in. It sounds like you have gotten some valuable input from the experts you list above and I will be following along with your build.
I'm at the point where I am trying to learn enough to ask some more intelligent/advanced questions but currently I have more basic questions.

I see you are getting double adjustable shocks and I see F5 offers double adjustable also - I understand that they are more adjustable but how, and what, does this help with? In what scenarios does this impact/improve the handling?

Also, why the "close ratio" transmission. Again I understand what this means but don't necessarily how that translates into behavior of the car?

Hey jgray, sorry had an eventful last couple of days so catching up. I'll work on a more detailed response but my understanding is there is a close ratio and a more spaced out ratio T-56. People speak of the "tall geared" T-56 as having 2 "overdrives" and better for highway cruising. The close ratio will accelerate quicker but will break traction easier (theoretically but I don't have time to put up the gear ratios between the 2 different T-56 transmissions), so that will be up to the tires, conditions, and the right foot. With a 3.55 rear and not the "old" 3.73 the short ratio T-56 might be a bit too aggressive and traction may be a serious problem, I really don't know. I also like road courses so you could argue I'd be safe with the taller-geared transmission as theoretically harder to break traction and would you even need to go into 5th or 6th except on long straights?

The double adjustable Konis from what I understand are fantastic shocks. The QA1s just have the adjustment dials at the top of the body, so mounted upside down are easy to get to and adjust, easier than the Konis I'm told. I have a fair amount of experience with double adjustable shocks on my side by side and know what the settings do with that over different terrain. May not translate to the street I know, but will do my best to dial it in. Last is spring rates. I've heard anywhere from 400# to 1000# springs in the front for example. Gordon at Levi Racing has a ton of experience in this department and recommended 600# front / 350# rear on the QA1s for a more aggressive setup that will theoretically be better than the stock Koni's on the track. Swaybars - I have both the front and rear. Front going ton for sure. I suspect I will need it/like it but have also heard (ie. read here) the rear swaybar can really destabilize these cars, or be the panacea that makes it great. I suspect that has to do with the rear spring rates and compression settings.

On the transmission I may be wrong running a 347, 3.55 diff, and close ratio T-56. Mike Forte and Gordon Levy both said that's the way to go, and again at least for me the search for a 3.73 Torsion diff didn't turn up anything easily. Again I won't be taking long roadtrips in it so don't care about 2 overdrives (maybe my ears would? ;) )


I don't think anything will stand up to the steel-on-steel scraping that occurs on things like the door hinges of hood latches.

I use an ink pen, and will go through everything carefully during final assembly. Other areas like chassis bits that get marred by sheet aluminum I will touch up with a matte black spray paint. And then at some point I will ignore what I cannot see :-) Living in the Rockies, I don't have issues with corrosion. If I were in an area where salt was used on the roads or salt was in the air, I guess I would be more diligent - Hah!

BTW, I have touched up these brackets only to scrape them again with the next iteration of assemble-check-disassemble-rinse-lather-repeat :-)

Yes was working on the front of the footbox this weekend and scratched it up a bit in a few places despite taping, strategic bending of panels...etc. I'm now in the same camp as you - once panels go off for powder coating that's when the chassis black and POR-15 is coming out! Upper exposed roll cage that will be seen inside the car can get painted if needed, so far those areas are clean. I am worried about rust in the areas that may never be seen again!

[jgray]

Thanks for the detailed reply Hank. This is all starting to make more sense to me and I am starting to think about my personal experience with the cars I have owned. I had an early S2000 that revved up to 9000 and had a brilliant six speed - it was very much horsepower with not a lot of torque so you had to change gear a lot to keep it charging - drive it like you stole it. It was so much fun when you were in the mood to drive. When you were not in that mood you were almost always in too high a gear and there was not enough torque to simply put your foot down, you had to downshift. I then had a older Ferrari 550 which was very much the opposite, it had a ton of torque in every gear. I drove that car on a road track, Thunderhill in Northern CA, and it was amazing, but I cooked the brakes - that experience is making me understand the feedback on get the best brakes you can and get air flowing to them.
I now have a mid-engined corvette with the DCT and have been on the track at Spring Mountain which is a tight technical road track and really only needed 3rd and 4th gears - that has a torquey 6.2L small block. For the Daytona I have a 302 that a friend is giving me and until we pull it apart don't know what cam or any of the stuff that would impact the power band. But I am thinking that the 302 will be on the lower end of power therefore a 6 speed makes sense (more akin to the S2000). I will look up the ratios of all of these cars and try to understand more. I am increasing leaning towards this being more of a track car because I have a GT and I am not going to be getting into the Daytona to go get coffee! I am either getting in to go show off and make noise or I am going to a track. But I am a pretty conservative driver so track car for me is still docile compared to others who are more experienced and aggressive.
For me, the build will be the first journey, that will then be followed by me learning how to dial in a whole bunch of stuff. Also to see how much mettle I have for track driving! I am going back to Spring Mountain in early January for 2 more days of track driving and will see if my new found confidence is for real or am I still a wimp!

[rhk118]

Well it has been a few weeks and not a ton of progress to report as it is summer and in addition work has been a bit hectic (feels like someone turned the work knob to '11' :rolleyes:). And like most everyone here in today’s world still waiting on parts - every single major system of this car is missing critical pieces except the body panels, so there is always drilling and fitting to be done. But they are trickling in.

So based on that first thing I did—smartly or otherwise—was take all the panels off after photographing and marking overlaps…etc. Next I mounted the manual steering rack, but I am using the Breeze offset mounts as am interested in the solid connection more so than the alignment of the rack. They are marketed as for the roadster or coupe and Breeze mentioned they weren’t actually aware of anyone that has used them in the coupe. I will say they are in, but they need to be mounted upside down relative to the couple sets I’ve seen installed on roadsters. If you mount them “right side up” the rack crashes big time into the control arm mounts on the coupe. Instructions mention a little grinding is needed on the roadster for the power rack to fit with these but this would require removing a lot of material on the coupe to the point I’d worry about structural integrity of the control arm mounts. So put them in upside down which raises the rack literally to the midpoint between the “street height” and “track height” mounts. So I’m now at “Hank height” haha…upside down I am still able to get what looks like over 1/4 inch in adjustability left to right. Not going to tighten these things yet until I get the steering shaft mounted and can properly center the rack.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170397&d=1659312575

Breeze Offset Steering Rack Mount Kit:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170387&d=1659306747

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170390&d=1659306747

Almost touching:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170388&d=1659306747


Speaking of steering my kit is missing the pillow and flange bearings and I’d like to get these mocked up in order to plan the electric steering install and get the rack centered, so just bit the bullet and ordered some from Motion Industries so I can mock this up tomorrow.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170389&d=1659306747

[rhk118]

In the meantime there have been several firsts in my life. First time installing a Cleco. First time installing a nut-sert. First time removing a nut-sert because dummy here put it on the wrong panel but thats better now…First time using a drill press. First time using a grinder “in competition”. First time using a tap to thread a freshly drilled hole rather than using it to fix something I cross-threaded thinking the resistance was just due to rust (:rolleyes:). This is fun.

Will spare you all the pictures, here’s a couple:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170374&d=1659306551

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170371&d=1659306551

I did find Cleco’ing the rivet spacing tool helpful at times (once my straight line was drawn).
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170367&d=1659306507

The rivet-spacer tool from Aircraft Spruce has been extremely helpful as well for those of us with OCD (who will remain nameless of course):
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170369&d=1659306507



Gas Cap:
Father-in-law was in town and looking for something to do, so we installed the Breeze locking gas cap. It is a seriously nice piece. Followed Pauls instructions in his anniversary roadster build.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170385&d=1659306673

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170386&d=1659306673

[rhk118]

Shocks:
QA-1 Double adjustable shock set arrived. Changed the springs out to 600# / 350#. These get mounted upside down so the compression and rebound knobs are relatively accessible.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170394&d=1659306828

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170393&d=1659306828


Steering Boss:
Also mounted the NRG low profile quick steering release to both steering wheels (got a wooden one with my kit, picked up a leather one here on the forum). That was a fun little project and happy how it turned out. Thanks to cgundermann for lending me the 3D jigs to line it all up. More on how to do this here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?34975-Quick-Release-Russ-Thompson-turn-signal

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170375&d=1659306592

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170377&d=1659306592

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170382&d=1659306630

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170383&d=1659306630

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170380&d=1659306630

And that’s it. I have the footbox and front panels drilled. Next up is steering shaft, pedals, and fitting some of the cabin panels. Just received my gas tank, and front spindles from FFR. Just need axles then can get all the suspension bits and diff prepped and painted.

Welcome any comments, questions, or feedback.

[rhk118]

Ok so got the steering installed and pretty happy with it. Happy to report the pillow mount and the flange bearings I found separately through Motion Industries (part numbers pictured in post above) work great. I pulled a page from Paul's build and mounted the flange bearing through the firewall inside the firewall rather than over the aluminum panel in the engine bay. Might switch it out with the Factory Five Flange bearing when that eventually gets here, but this one seems pretty darn good. Required some minor modification of the bearing housing to get it to rotate into position so the bolt holes lined up, but minimal. I mocked everything up with the Russ Thompson column as well because why not.

Biggest problem I had was the cockpit part of the steering shaft. The entire thing was just too big. Steering wheel side would not fit into the steering boss. The "D" end that goes into the "D sleeve" was also too big and wouldn't go into the sleeve. Probably 45 minutes later of die grinding and test fitting I was able to get it into the steering boss (required hammering, so those two are united forever), and needed to thin out about 8 inches of the end going into the D-Sleeve in the footbox. I know some have received bent D-sleeves and this wasn't the case. I know some say just smooth off the edges of the boss side or the D-sleeve side and this wasn't the case either. Micrometer confirmed for whatever reason my part was about 1 mm wider than the holes it was supposed to fit into. Lots of die grinding. Even pulled out ice at one point thinking I heated it up too much and it had expanded and if I cooled it down it would contract then magically fit (:confused: -- can u say science geek)...not the case, more die grinding definitely the answer. In any event nothing is loose and the fit on both ends is snug. All other parts of the steering install went smoothly. NRG mount works well. Turns easily when mounted with a good click engagement...which was not always the case when trying to release it by itself from the box.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170437&d=1659381294

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170436&d=1659381294

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170439&d=1659381294

Then I decided to check the centering of the rack since I had installed the Breeze offset steering rack mounts. My rack was 1/2 inch off left lock to right lock (1/4 inch per side), so fiddled for quite a while (picking up on a theme here?) and had an ah-ha moment...Long and short of it is everything I said in my prior post just forget. Mount them in the upper holes, that keeps the rack high enough that the boot clearing the control arm mounts is no issue. It also orients the offset mounts so you can access them and actually shift the rack left or right. In the lowest setting the boot inevitably hits the control arm tabs. Regardless my left to right bias was 1/2" off, and my manual rack needed to go 1/4" toward the passenger side - easy, once you use the proper mounting point. So my rack is now centered and no boot touching metal, note the position of the mounting bolts at about 2 o'clock on each mount which effectively moved the rack to the right the 1/4" needed.

Ironically these are supposed to get the rack as low as possible to lower bump steer, and in the coupe it is now mounted higher which is bad for bump steer. Perhaps others are right and the (? polyethylene) kit mounts are all you need.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170438&d=1659381294

[rhk118]

Spent the past week off and on fitting panels. For the most part all the panels that came on the coupe are now fitted and pre-drilled. 75 clecos are not enough for this task! Well they are if you take them all out of the previously fitted panel. Broke or dulled a total of 8 #30 drill bits, more clecos and a few more drill bits ordered.

What is there to say about panel fitting that already hasn’t been said? I had to do a LOT of modifying to some panels to get them to fit around welds, and on occasion some of the welds had to be ground down, we’ve all been there (or soon will be!). Nothing too bad or what I would consider out of the ordinary, and got everything lined up. As I have gone on with panel fitting I am now much more likely to just smooth things off and will touch up the frame once panels are off for powder coating.

What can I say that maybe I didn’t see before…well I put the panel on behind the cockpit that is the real pain in the butt to get on (bend it in an S and still doesn’t want to go) and forgot to mark the angled frame rails on it before I took it off initially…well rather than mark the frame rails on it, take it off, mark the drill holes, and put it back on (scratching the frame up in the process), I just used a BB coated in sharpie marker and a small magnet to follow the frame rail with the BB on the other side to trace the edges of the frame rail on each side to draw them out on the surface of that panel…then was able to mark and drill the rivet holes no problem.

In addition I was able to save some time in the cockpit and trunk area realizing everything frame-wise (and hence drill-hole-wise) is a mirror image so I could drill one panel, then clamp it to its counterpart panel for the other side, pre-drill holes, and they lined up perfectly (seriously no issues). Note this isn’t true of the foot boxes which are both different. I know this is cringe-worthy for some of you but went well and everything lined up great.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170835&d=1660091344

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170832&d=1660091307


And basically here it is now, not all panels mounted in the cockpit because I ran out of clecos:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170836&d=1660091344

[rhk118]

Fitting the Radiator

Also drilled the radiator tunnel panels, again left and right sides are mirror images so marked and drilled them together. Just be mindful of slight side to side differences around the radiator mounts, but it worked. Also mounted the radiator:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170829&d=1660091307

Had all the issues others have described mounting the radiator. Some of this was an angle issue with the radiator itself. I will say the Manual is incorrect stating to put the tab on the radiator bracket towards the back of the car, but after about 30 minutes of fiddling and staring at the thing, figured out the manual was wrong, flipped the bracket with the tab to the front and things fit better, but there was still a finger breadth of space between each side of the bracket and the frame. So cue the forum searching. I trimmed the back lower “ridge” or “channel” down on the back bottom of the radiator half-way. This allowed better angling of the radiator and then I could get 1 side of the mounting bracket down and the other side was up a quarter inch. Measured and drilled mounting holes and by tightening them was able to get the mounting bracket down to the frame. All of this was without the cut fuel line “grommet” along the hard bottom radiator mounts. Once I put them on it was a tight fit again, but bracket tightened OK.



Used the Breeze fan shroud. Works great. Bottom of the shroud didn’t need trimming, and mounted the 2 holes on the Breeze fan shroud to the bottom back of the radiator using riv-nuts. Used riv-nuts to mount the fan. The upper portion of the breeze mount sticks out above the upper back “ridge” of the radiator:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170828&d=1660091307

Some have cut this off, others have made a tab, I have friends with a fender roller, so rolled it over to the point that it will slide onto that upper rear “ridge”…so now that holds snugly, and held on at the bottom by riv-nuts onto the lower ridge of the radiator, will see how it works after powdercoating:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170830&d=1660091307

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170839&d=1660094536

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170840&d=1660095300



Finally I need to do something about this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170833&d=1660091344

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170834&d=1660091344

Open to suggestions here -- Using a cut fuel line as a grommet, while it works, seems a little inelegant to me (yes I just used that word). You won’t see it. The radiator is under a lot of pressure with that bracket. This thing is just going to crack and dry rot and I won’t see that happening. Next thing will be wondering why the radiator is leaking. Need to find something else to protect the bottom of the radiator there that may hold up better. Any ideas?

[rhk118]

Here is 8 hours of work:

Received 75 more clecos from Aircraft Spruce. Up to 150. Used the extra 75 up in a day as will be seen below!

Got the footwell panels pre-drilled, cut and fitted, riv-nuts installed. Just need to get some aluminum to make the connection between the panels...2" x 24" strip of 0.040 on its way from Mcmaster along with piano hinges for the rear storage box.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170988&d=1660409175


Made a transmission tunnel front plate, required some smoothing of the welds in the area. Looking at this makes me thing of the "plinko" game on price is right...funny that cleco sounds like plinko...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170984&d=1660409116


Finally made my rear trunk box. Cuts aren't great (used a 3" cutter wheel), but it is square. Have a sheet of 0.060 aluminum for a lid, just waiting on piano hinges. Thanks to Paul posting this initially and Namrups (Scott) for this. Looks good. Although I can't put mine together and just install it from underneath as I left 1" lips all around up top and I can't just slip it in, will have to be assembled piece by piece.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170987&d=1660409175

So at the end of a 2 week vacation and thats how long it took to fit all the body panels that came on the car and build the storage box for the back. As they say I may not be good, but at least I'm slow :p

[rhk118]

Question / Help on Cockpit Rear Outer Panels

Are they supposed to look like this? Can't get mine to fit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171058&d=1660434458

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171057&d=1660434458

These are my left and right rear cockpit quarter panels that are supposed to be fitted once the body goes back on. I can't figure them out and honestly think that mine have the bottom bend backwards on both sides. See how they bend forward? It seems to me that they should have the exact bend backwards in mine. When I try and "force" them into position the bottom half on each side develops severe bowing that I believe even clecos won't overcome. They are certainly cut to the proper shape, just seems that the bottom bend should be "back" and the upper bend forward, at least in my car...both bends are forward on mine...this how they are supposed to be?

UPDATE: Mine were in fact bent wrong. Sent pictures to FFR and they had the proper panels on my doorstep the following day - love them!

[rhk118]

Looking forward to following your build! I’ll be a few months behind you with a kit arriving in September. I’m also planning on electric power steering. Are you planning on using/modifying the Mk4 EPAS kit from epowersteering.com or are you going with a different solution?

Hey, just saw this now and sorry for the delayed response. Short answer is yes, I am currently looking at the epowersteering.com / 520 Speedworks MK4 kit as it will interface with the steering shaft well. Price is very attractive. Only thing that gives me pause on these is they seem to be using refurbished steering units (from Saturn Vues?) that are no longer manufactured. So if ever an issue the custom welding that will need to be done will have to be re-done in the event of a part shortage or worse, nothing available. That isn't a deal breaker totally for me because I can buy 2 of their kits for the price of the other solution I've been looking at which is the EPAS Performance MKIV kit.

The EPAS performance units would be new, and have a better warranty as they are not refurb units. EPAS performance is also fairly big and well known. Having said that I have been going back and forth with them on which unit to use - either their "custom kit" vs their “MKIV kit”. One person there insists needs to be their custom kit, another person there insists it should be their MKIV kit due to the input/output shafts matching the FFR steering shaft, either will work, but which one will take less finagling to get it mounted -- leaning toward the MKIV kit for the steering shaft compatibility as the coupe uses the same dimension shafts/D shaft as the roadster. The first person thinks the shaft on their MKIV kit is too long for the coupe. Their kits cost slightly over 2x the price of the epowersteering kits, but getting parts down the road in event of failure to me is real, and I don't want to have to pull the car apart and make a new bracket for a different steering system if needed...This is a lifetime car for me...so the remanufactured units seem riskier long term....but as they say no guarantees in life. (although the epowersteering units are attractively priced for my side-by-side which I use to plow in the winter and really would love power steering there, so might try one anyway, and there's my "spare" :cool:).

Long and short of it is waiting on a more definitive answer from EPAS performance.

[Namrups]

Question / Help on Cockpit Rear Outer Panels

Are they supposed to look like this? Can't get mine to fit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171058&d=1660434458

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171057&d=1660434458

These are my left and right rear cockpit quarter panels that are supposed to be fitted once the body goes back on. I can't figure them out and honestly think that mine have the bottom bend backwards on both sides. See how they bend forward? It seems to me that they should have the exact bend backwards in mine. When I try and "force" them into position the bottom half on each side develops severe bowing that I believe even clecos won't overcome. They are certainly cut to the proper shape, just seems that the bottom bend should be "back" and the upper bend forward, at least in my car...both bends are forward on mine...this how they are supposed to be?

Here is the pics of mine. It looks like yours are definitely bent wrong.
The passenger side in place:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171073&d=1660442447
The drivers side:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171072&d=1660442447

Send these pics to FF and ask for new panels.

[rhk118]

Here is the pics of mine. It looks like yours are definitely bent wrong.

Send these pics to FF and ask for new panels.

Thanks so much Scott. Was starting to think I was crazy (:p well...), will contact Factory Five tomorrow.

[rhk118]

I have to compliment Factory Five on being a pleasure to work with. Sent photos of my panels above to FFR and new panels were on my doorstep the next day (didn't need them quite that fast guys, but appreciate it!). I know they are all seriously busy but their customer service it top notch, thank you all.

Not much to report other than started to hang the suspension and prep parts for paint, and some more panel work for the removable foot box panels, and the door for the rear storage box (copying Paul here on both of these). Also not much to show that hasn't been seen in other builds.

Front Lower Control Arm Bushings and greasing (and questioning if I cut grooves in the face of the bushings) - before putting them on the car I greased these up. My front lowers don't have grooved bushing faces like the bushings on the upper control arms do. I don't like the idea of grooving the face of an otherwise good bushing if I don't have to, and noticed that the lower control arm bushings do have grooves running the length of their insides, haven't seen that anywhere in pictures on here before. So I hooked them up to my grease gun and it took six pumps for grease to come out both ends, and it flows through the channels to the ends. Also lubed up the inside of the metal spacer manually. Good enough for me, don't think it will be a long term problem either way you go, I'm striking this one up to personal preference. My side-by-side sees some serious mud, muddy water, and a ton of dust, has similar bushings and that has done fine over 7 years (although that gets grease yearly, taken apart and cleaned about every other year).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171312&d=1660954138

Got them hung, along with the QA1 Shocks. I’m going with rsnake’s recommendation of mounting the QA1s upright in the front for easier access to the C/R dials. As you can see I am using the "street height" mounting locations for these. rsnake's ride height looks good in pictures, and he has no rubbing, appreciate his input...Would also like to thank him for his “Cobra Daytona Build” channel on YouTube. Seriously helpful and has been fun to watch his progression dialing it in and auto-crossing!

The QA1s have wider mounting sleeves than the stock Koni shocks. So I had to cut down the supplied FFR shock spacers (3 inch cutting wheel and die grinding to size worked). So for the front of the car you need two 1/2 inch spacers for the top mount, and two 1/4 inch spacers for the bottom mount, just had to cut a bit off the 8 spacers (4 per side) from the kit. Will get measurements for the rear spacers when I get that far along.

Also note that I did what Paul mentions in his build - the nut for the front mount is forward and behind the radiator tunnel, you can see it in its tiny space in the picture. I was able to install it with the radiator tunnel there. No way the bolt can be removed (easily) when radiator tunnel installed if you put it in front to back, go back to front here. The rear bolt is mounted front to back, so heads of the bolts face each other on the inside of the control arm.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171313&d=1660954138

Howe Racing ball joints installed easily on the uppers, direct fit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171311&d=1660954138

Finally getting the hubs and knuckles prepped for painting. Pressed all the studs out of the 4 corners as still deciding between running hubcentric spacers and longer studs vs the bolt on spacers. Need time to research this. Hold your friends with hydraulic presses closely ( haha! ;) ). Also used a bandsaw to cut the ear off of the rear knuckles, used the same pattern Paul used and left a bit more material behind than the manual called for. You can see the black line in the picture which is where the FFR manual has the cut made. Fingers crossed these don't contact anywhere.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171314&d=1660954138

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171315&d=1660954138

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171316&d=1660954253

And that’s all I have for now. I do have my front spindles so hoping to get those hung this weekend. Perhaps starting with brake lines after that, engine is a long way off. Going to start studying Logans super-helpful tire chart as well and find some tires for these 17" Halibrands!

[jgray]

Fitting the Radiator

Also drilled the radiator tunnel panels, again left and right sides are mirror images so marked and drilled them together. Just be mindful of slight side to side differences around the radiator mounts, but it worked. Also mounted the radiator:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170829&d=1660091307

Had all the issues others have described mounting the radiator. Some of this was an angle issue with the radiator itself. I will say the Manual is incorrect stating to put the tab on the radiator bracket towards the back of the car, but after about 30 minutes of fiddling and staring at the thing, figured out the manual was wrong, flipped the bracket with the tab to the front and things fit better, but there was still a finger breadth of space between each side of the bracket and the frame. So cue the forum searching. I trimmed the back lower “ridge” or “channel” down on the back bottom of the radiator half-way. This allowed better angling of the radiator and then I could get 1 side of the mounting bracket down and the other side was up a quarter inch. Measured and drilled mounting holes and by tightening them was able to get the mounting bracket down to the frame. All of this was without the cut fuel line “grommet” along the hard bottom radiator mounts. Once I put them on it was a tight fit again, but bracket tightened OK.



Used the Breeze fan shroud. Works great. Bottom of the shroud didn’t need trimming, and mounted the 2 holes on the Breeze fan shroud to the bottom back of the radiator using riv-nuts. Used riv-nuts to mount the fan. The upper portion of the breeze mount sticks out above the upper back “ridge” of the radiator:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170828&d=1660091307

Some have cut this off, others have made a tab, I have friends with a fender roller, so rolled it over to the point that it will slide onto that upper rear “ridge”…so now that holds snugly, and held on at the bottom by riv-nuts onto the lower ridge of the radiator, will see how it works after powdercoating:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170830&d=1660091307

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170839&d=1660094536

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170840&d=1660095300



Finally I need to do something about this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170833&d=1660091344

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170834&d=1660091344

Open to suggestions here -- Using a cut fuel line as a grommet, while it works, seems a little inelegant to me (yes I just used that word). You won’t see it. The radiator is under a lot of pressure with that bracket. This thing is just going to crack and dry rot and I won’t see that happening. Next thing will be wondering why the radiator is leaking. Need to find something else to protect the bottom of the radiator there that may hold up better. Any ideas?


Hey Hank, not sure if you have solved this yet, but "Cobra Daytona Build" episode 161 shows building of a shield, for lack of better term, across the bottom of the radiator to protect the radiator. Not sure if this directly applies to your bracket issue but you might be able to elegantly combine the two ideas.

[LateApex]

This is indeed a bit of a hack. It may suffice ??

I am going to get a couple of thousand miles on my Coupe and re-review, for the very last time (Hah!) little bits like this that I have in my list of things that I am not quite comfortable with. Maybe even sooner as I run through the break-in / bed-in checklist

Things like this fall into my vibration category. What I mean is if the radiator shakes, rattles and rolls, items like this will fail. If everything is tight (but not TOO tight), maybe this hack works :-)

You are doing some fine work here - it is nice to follow this thread!

p.s. All my work likely falls into the inelegant category :-)

[rhk118]

Hey Hank, not sure if you have solved this yet, but "Cobra Daytona Build" episode 161 shows building of a shield, for lack of better term, across the bottom of the radiator to protect the radiator. Not sure if this directly applies to your bracket issue but you might be able to elegantly combine the two ideas.



This is indeed a bit of a hack. It may suffice ??

I am going to get a couple of thousand miles on my Coupe and re-review, for the very last time (Hah!) little bits like this that I have in my list of things that I am not quite comfortable with. Maybe even sooner as I run through the break-in / bed-in checklist

Things like this fall into my vibration category. What I mean is if the radiator shakes, rattles and rolls, items like this will fail. If everything is tight (but not TOO tight), maybe this hack works :-)

You are doing some fine work here - it is nice to follow this thread!

p.s. All my work likely falls into the inelegant category :-)


Thanks Guys. I did watch that video but before I installed my radiator and forgot about it (:eek:)...I have been going through them and watching again before different parts of the build process - just figured out I didn't put the lower shock mounting bolts from the sway bar kit on, I used the shorter ones from the kit for example. :rolleyes:

Greg's protection plate reminds me a lot of BMW as they put an oil cooler right there on a lot of their cars and if you hit something you have about 1-3 seconds to shut her down or rebuild/replace a motor, so a lot of folks put protective plates there. Thankfully on this the radiator is more forgiving, however if on track and you happen to puncture the radiator wow who knows. But that would be something you would certainly hear, and likely feel. Regardless looking at those fuel lines used as "grommets", they are pretty hearty. They will eventually crack however. So not sure if I put this on a "wearable part" list and check it every year or replace every other...etc. or come up with something else like a carved or milled polyurethane flat surface or a cut-down carved hockey puck (those buggers are strong...I am in New England after all!)...Still thinking about it, as I am a lot of other little details as we all are...but still trying to keep my eye on the ball of do the build correctly, and try not to trip myself up down the road with earlier "miscalculations" (maybe the condenser and mounting the right hood hinge is what I'm most worried about)...but to me simple solutions are elegant. Complex solutions cause frustration eventually, either in the moment or down the road. My work is definitely inelegant at times, just because I don't know what I'm doing might be wrong, we don't know what we don't know....I figure for about every minute of work I'm putting into the car I've done 3-4 minutes of research. But if you study photos of the original cars they weren't perfect either - they were built quickly...bare bones but with more than a few novel upgrades, it is very cool that the history of these things is so well documented!

[jgray]

Hey Hank, I see that you are looking at "Stack EFI (looking at the new Speedmaster downdraft EFI with the “fast” computer)." I was down at Laguna Seca and looked at the Superperformance Cobra that they had - it had Roush motor with some sort of stack EFI. I'm starting with a 302 that has been donated to me by a good friend and I think I want something like this EFI option - I'm googling around and am confused by what I need in addition to the manifold, which seems to run at about $2400. I realize I could keep researching but I figure you have already been down this path!

[rhk118]

Hey Hank, I see that you are looking at "Stack EFI (looking at the new Speedmaster downdraft EFI with the “fast” computer)." I was down at Laguna Seca and looked at the Superperformance Cobra that they had - it had Roush motor with some sort of stack EFI. I'm starting with a 302 that has been donated to me by a good friend and I think I want something like this EFI option - I'm googling around and am confused by what I need in addition to the manifold, which seems to run at about $2400. I realize I could keep researching but I figure you have already been down this path!

Hey jgray, when I initially posted that I had just decided to not go with the ultra-reliable and nicely revving sniper setup for my 347 (from everything I hear the sniper is bulletproof and is very smooth at low revs, likely the benchmark). But then I was looking at pictures of the original cars with 8-stacks and just decided I need to live out my childhood matchbox-car dream and just put an 8 stack on it. Speedmaster was the first I came across and was about to order one but they were all backordered everywhere. Turns out the company has redesigned them and upgrading them to a "fast" computer, and would be late 2022 before they estimated they'd be available (this was based on a phone call to the company)...also found out that support for that computer (either their old one or their new ones) is essentially nonexistent and if you have a problem tuning it, good luck...So did more research and found this thread: http://https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43322-weber-carbs-or-EFI (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43322-weber-carbs-or-EFI)...PM'ed with Papa a bit and watched his video of a drive with a lot of low revs, as well as Bob (LateApex) and his looks gorgeous in his "go cart" video.

So I called Jim Inglese. Going with an 8 stack EFI system from him, more money but in this area I do believe you get what you pay for, and they look the part. He is building an 8 stack EFI with short horns for the coupe and a Holley Terminator X computer. I am also picking up the distributer, wires, replica vintage valve covers from him. He says the low rev performance with this setup is excellent. As for what else is needed - My engine is at an engine builder, I supplied the 302 block, rear sump champ pan, valve covers, and now EFI 8-stack intake and other bits he recommended that work well with the Holley Terminator (Jim estimated 6 weeks for the 8-stack as he builds them per order, not just sitting on a shelf). It will have a cage, forged internals, roller rockers, and AFR headers that I left up to the builder to source given the current parts shortages. Seems the cam shaft is the hard-to-source part at the moment and as soon as that is here he is going to start compression testing. I was worried that he would need the intake to dyno the engine, but he just uses a sniper to run the dyno, then when the 8 stack is here, switch out and tune. As for the front end I have no AC compressor from FFR so waiting on that which could show up today (box from FFR out for delivery today but hoping for CV axles) or in a year seeing some of the stories on here about missing parts and timing. So when the builder is close to ready I may just need to buy another compressor and have him build the front end....I'm just using compressor and alternator, as going to use electric steering.

[Shakey]

Enjoying reading and learning from your build. Our builds have a lot in common. Keep up the good work!



Shakey

[rhk118]

Enjoying reading and learning from your build. Our builds have a lot in common. Keep up the good work!

Thanks! You as well!

CV Axles arrived!!!…which means can get painting the suspension bits, knuckles and hubs. Axles came as bare steel….only thing that concerns me is no paperwork with them, no markings on the boxes and they are both exactly the same…worried I have 2 lefts or 2 rights and not one of each….we will see in the coming weeks! Also found 3 more panels in my cockpit bent wrong from FFR. I salvaged 2 as bend in right place but wrong direction, but the 3rd is a very long bend and my 6” HF brake is a boy on a man’s mission…but I will try as it’s the front center transmission tunnel cover and that re-bend won’t be seen if not pretty.

Otherwise not much progress to report, visitors in town…hoping I get some parts from one of the vendors here that I ordered from 7 months ago as well so I can get to fuel lines / gas tank / brakes as will be ready for them shortly now that I have all the parts from FFR to get all 4 corners together…

Build has been fun, but certainly has been frustrating as of late (“supply chain” issues, not the build), imagine that’s the nature of the beast. Patience grasshopper, plenty to work on!

[edwardb]

CV Axles arrived!!!… Axles came as bare steel….only thing that concerns me is no paperwork with them, no markings on the boxes and they are both exactly the same…worried I have 2 lefts or 2 rights and not one of each….we will see in the coming weeks...

Normal for the CV axles to be bare steel. You can paint them. Or spray clear on them. That's what I did. But they are definitely different. CV joint to CV joint they're the same. But the axle end stub on the left side is 1" longer than on the right side. Pictures and dimensions in your manual. Otherwise page 21 here https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/IRS-2015-REV-D.pdf.

[rhk118]

Thanks Paul, I remember reading the difference between left and right axles and read the thread ensuring they are "clicked in" just remember that they are different due to the diff...visually they look exactly the same....but you know what happens when Hank thinks (:))...and the wife keeps insisting on a glasses check...haha...will measure.

You used the same clear on the differential cover, that holding up well?

EDIT: I'm good, have a left and a right, the foam protector on the left was covering the stub so I was seeing the spline sections only on that end...

[jgray]

Hi Hank, It’s me again trying to take advantage of your research and get your insight. Last Sunday I drove down to San Fran and met Greg and Dave at the Lotus Club’s auto cross. It was awesome to meet them, see and hear there Daytonas in action, and most of all Dave took me for a ride in his. He has a 302 and it is plenty fast - it was a blast driving through the hills above the old Cow Palace and set off car alarms!
To the question part for you; Greg suggested a torsen diff, and a 3.73. Also, Dave has a fuel cell which appeals to me because the whole gas/fire thing scares me. I see you are getting a 3.55 diff and not from FFR? Did you consider a fuel cell? Interested in your and other’s input.
And I can say after riding in one of these I am so hooked. It was loud, raw, but what an experience. With that 302 with a carb the throttle response is crazy. I have a 500 hp C8 vette and it is not even close.

[rhk118]

Hi Hank, It’s me again trying to take advantage of your research and get your insight. Last Sunday I drove down to San Fran and met Greg and Dave at the Lotus Club’s auto cross. It was awesome to meet them, see and hear there Daytonas in action, and most of all Dave took me for a ride in his. He has a 302 and it is plenty fast - it was a blast driving through the hills above the old Cow Palace and set off car alarms!
To the question part for you; Greg suggested a torsen diff, and a 3.73. Also, Dave has a fuel cell which appeals to me because the whole gas/fire thing scares me. I see you are getting a 3.55 diff and not from FFR? Did you consider a fuel cell? Interested in your and other’s input.
And I can say after riding in one of these I am so hooked. It was loud, raw, but what an experience. With that 302 with a carb the throttle response is crazy. I have a 500 hp C8 vette and it is not even close.

Man I wish I could have been there with you guys (would have been a bit of a trip for me though worth it!)...

I went with the 3.55 and short ratio Tremec T-56 for the following 3 reasons:
1. Mike Forte suggested it
2. Gordon Levy suggested it
3. 3.55 is easily available, the 3.73 I'd have to find used somewhere.

I didn't go with the FFR 3.55 simply because I was able to bundle purchasing it, the transmission with cut-off Quicktime bell housing for the 302, and some suspension pieces from Mike Forte and picked them up at his shop. Saved a few bucks doing that, had a great time chatting with Mike and have used him for some more parts as well. I have no issues with the FFR 3.55 differential (likely the same exact thing as the Ford performance one he sold me). At the time I didn't want to do a search for a 3.73, or have concern that there was something wrong with it if salvaged from a crashed car.

However now compare the Torsen part of the 3.73 with a true mechanical system vs clutch plates in the 3.55. Torsen is better. How much better? :confused: ...If someone with real world experience between the Torsen rear and the 3.55 clutch plate rear end can shed light on significant differences between the 2 on a road course track I'd appreciate your input because I truly don't know. There is also a kit to convert the 3.55 internals to a torsen setup so perhaps I'd consider that if it was significantly better, my diff isn't in the car yet so there is still time.

As for the ratios. I am not the kind of driver who enjoys breaking traction unless I am intending on doing so (EDIT: you can also substitute "sphincter tone" in there for the word traction... :rolleyes:) . Sure I can catch an oversteer, that isn’t this issue. It’s the 2nd and occasional 3rd rebound snaps that catches the most people out. 3.55 is taller than 3.73 so in each gear it will be a slightly faster top speed. That also means slightly less acceleration than the 3.73 and my thought with that perhaps slightly less likely to break traction inadvertently. I know the tire compound, temperature, surface, and *right foot* have way more to do with that than gearing, but this car is going to have plenty of power so I don’t suspect gearing will slow it down as much as breaking traction might.

Here are some calculated final drive speeds at 2500 RPM and 6000 RPM with the 3.55 and 3.73 diffs using the close gear ratio T-56 and a 26.5 inch tall tires (looked at Logans tire thread, 26.5 looks fairly common):

3.55 @ 2500 RPM
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171948&d=1662237757

3.73 @ 2500 RPM
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171949&d=1662237757

3.55 @ 6000 RPM
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171951&d=1662237757

3.73 @ 6000 RPM
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171950&d=1662237757

Based on this, fewer shifts here and there on a track with 3.55 vs 3.73. The 3.73 looks more fun for regular street driving though. Interesting thing is I plugged in 6000 RPM with a 3.55 and the tall geared T-56 and top speed in 6th comes out to 266 MPH!....I think the close ratio will work well.

Other thing to consider for traction is where is the engine’s “sweet spot” in its powerband? For me with a 3.55 diff looks like will need to be in the 2500 RPM range for “highway speeds”. For someone with a 3.73 looks like somewhere closer to 3000 RPM. Tuning the engine is obviously another component, I know with modern turbo engines you can trade off some high end power for much more usable mid-range power (did this with my M3 which I sold to fund the FFR Type 65). With a 347 and EFI I’m not sure how much of the power curve can be massaged….that may be more up to the cam you select. Hence an engine builder is doing this part for me (he has a specialized cam he’s waiting on for my engine).

When it comes down to it I have NO IDEA what I’m doing...just some knucklehead on the internet who worked in a bakery when in high school and college and is “talking a lot of Danish to the donut man” on here (as we used to say). Obviously I am getting a lot of help from a lot of different folks and posts and I’m trying to be thoughtful in my build of the engine and gears as well as the car…but in the end the overall performance might just come down to the tires on the thing…It seems that is the achilles heel with that bracket in the back preventing use of wider tires…and I want mine to have tall-ish sidewalls for the more vintage look (my goal is to stay as close to the original 6 as possible, trackable street car...but for the vintage look the tires and driving lights are tough finds)…so that will be an issue to tackle down the road. Thinking set of streets and a set for track.

Fuel cell: My understanding is if the tank is ½ full or more you don’t need to worry about fuel pickup on track. Fuel cell bladders need to be replaced every number of years. Not sure any are compatible with the stock filling system and therefore need to be filled from the trunk. After talking to some folks decided not to do it on mine, but I will have fire suppression in the cabin...but please anyone chime in here on anything I've said.

[jgray]

As I expected you are a fount of knowledge along with humility! You understate what you have learned and I appreciate all the feedback and data. Regarding the diff I think I am at the point of overthinking it and will get a 3.55.
I been reading up on engines and transmissions and feel pretty good there. A “hot” 302 with a T56 is where my head is at currently but that might change when I talk to my engine builder but I doubt it after that ride in Dave’s car
I’m probably going with a fuel cell because it will make me feel more comfortable which will lead to me having a lot more fun
I’ve been reading a bit on unsprung weight and rotational inertia so the next thing for me to geek out on is wheels, tires, and brakes. Brakes, I had convinced myself to get the strongest wilwoods but i’ll now look at the weight. Like you, I want to be thoughtful, but I will reach a point where I make a decision and move on. No doubt the biggest limiting factor when I go out on track will be the idiot behind the wheel. I do think I will be tracking it quite a bit; i initially just auto crosses but we have Thunderhill, Laguna Seca, and Sears Point all within a couple of hours or so. Fun!!

[rhk118]

As I expected you are a fount of knowledge along with humility! You understate what you have learned and I appreciate all the feedback and data. Regarding the diff I think I am at the point of overthinking it and will get a 3.55.
I been reading up on engines and transmissions and feel pretty good there. A “hot” 302 with a T56 is where my head is at currently but that might change when I talk to my engine builder but I doubt it after that ride in Dave’s car

Yes the overthinking part. You can spend a day researching nicopp versus stainless brake lines. Stainless looks cool but what if you develop a leak at a junction in a few years, what a pain....etc etc etc...I've also never built a car or used a lot of these tools like a cutting wheel shooting sparks 20 feet across the garage...so there is the decision making and just having to "cut bait" as it were and make a decision so you can focus on the build. I've made some decisions, now just have to not screw up the build as well....and the build is FUN! I'm having a blast. You won't know what its like to drive it until you've built it. Maybe then you will kick yourself and think you should have gotten the 3.73...etc. But hey - those are projects for another day to keep your right brain busy and satisfied...I think, like watching Greg's build on his youtube channel that this car will have "iterations" and not be built and done...pursuing your own perfection. Heck even the original 6 coupes were the same way.


I’m probably going with a fuel cell because it will make me feel more comfortable which will lead to me having a lot more fun

I had the same thought on the fuel cell. It will be in the back of my head. Fortunately this isn't an old 911 with the pendulum in the rear, but you can't stop what the other guy does, and if the swaybar/spring rates are wrong in the rear its going to destabilize things and snap around on you. Also something you won't know until you play with it a bit and feel how the weight shifts. The rear swaybar scares me a bit TBH...not sure a lot of research was done on this other than it "needs one," miata bar fits so put it on....I know it isn't the case but I'm going to ease into this car...not sure if there is a race shop nearby that can do dynamic corner weights and adjust the swaybar rates...


I’ve been reading a bit on unsprung weight and rotational inertia so the next thing for me to geek out on is wheels, tires, and brakes. Brakes, I had convinced myself to get the strongest wilwoods but i’ll now look at the weight. Like you, I want to be thoughtful, but I will reach a point where I make a decision and move on. No doubt the biggest limiting factor when I go out on track will be the idiot behind the wheel.

Brakes - bigger stronger more steel better. There is fixed unsprung mass and there is rotating unsprung mass, big brakes with heavy unsprung and sprung mass are good for track as you know, less fade. I haven't looked into ceramic options nor will I. Rubber weighs more than Rim. Wheel weight penalizes you r^2 and I've heard the analogy that 1# on the tire or rim is like adding 4# to the car. So it is important theoretically but it isn't *that* important. If you have a wheel/tire combo that's 45# per corner and you cut that down to 40# per corner you won't really feel it. If you cut it down to 35# per corner then you'll start to feel it. But for me I don't want to break traction and this car will be a bear to keep rung in (english?)...So here heavier wheels might actually help you...Lightweight car with lightweight wheels and lots of power = spinning wheels. Great if that's what you want.

I will get booed here but on the other end of the spectrum I think this car would be a total hoot with a 120 HP NA Miata engine, drive it 11/10ths....


I do think I will be tracking it quite a bit; i initially just auto crosses but we have Thunderhill, Laguna Seca, and Sears Point all within a couple of hours or so. Fun!!

There is no drool emoji here but just :cool:

[rhk118]

OK so I typed all that above and theres a thread 2 days ago on the topic, with another sub-thread...covers it pretty well. Going to use Skuzzy's tool to help with my tire size!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43882-RPM-Speed-Charts-for-typical-builds

[orangecruz]

Following the build with intrest

great work so far pal

[rhk118]

Haven't made any progress in the past 2-3 weeks, work getting in the way of my new hobby ;)

[LateApex]

Great discussion!

[rhk118]

Great discussion!

OK I can add I mounted the upper radiator tunnel "extension" piece this weekend...I think I drilled 7 holes...gradual forward progress...

But have been doing a lot of research on fuel system and brake lines and all the extra little connectors and hangers / benders required. Bunch of little things ordered....but I'm always trying to think ahead and troubleshoot the build from the real tool in all of this (will let you all figure that out :rolleyes:)...Fortunately I have someone building a coupe 4 miles from me and a Roadster 6.4 miles from me and has been tremendously helpful to see their builds and just talk. Its one thing to see the builds, its another to appreciate the thought and time it takes to get there.

[jgray]

Any progress is progress! Glad to hear you have local builders to huddle with - I am sure that really helps. I know there is someone around here building a roadster; I need to follow-up with the local FFR club.

Thanks for all the feedback - I am pretty much settled on the T56 close ratio and 3:55. My engine choice has evolved a little since the friend that was donating a 302 has another friend with a different 302 with a quad twin weber setup that he was going to put in to a De Tomaso - this certainly has my interest!

Also, with respect to unsprung weight your feedback was very helpful - I'm going to stop overthinking that topic and just by some "starter" wheels and tires that I like the look o which are not too expensive and see if I like them.

Your point about putting a Miata engine in was somewhat poignant to me; I had been thinking about how the Daytona basically weighs the same as a Miata yet we are thinking that 300hp is underpowered!

last week I was on vacation and I always wake up hours before my wife. So I decided I was going to read Paul's build thread from end-to-end; I'm a slow reader because I always ended up researching stuff. However, the outcome was me ordering a whole bunch of tools and some parts! I must have ordered most of the tools Paul describes including the three tube benders and Eastwood flaring tool. LOL - I now have a bunch of packages arriving and my wife is giving me the look.
My idea is to get used to using these tools by bending some stainless tubes and see if I can learn the double flare. Also I want to play around with riveting and threading into tubing and generally get a feel for the different steps along with testing some things.
I think I saw someone use the term they were "nesting" in their garage in some of the months while they were waiting - I was doing this on Sunday, pulling my garage apart and doing some dumpster runs trying to figure out where all the boxes and body will go. Decided to get rid of whole bunch of stuff I have accumulated in the last couple of years - I hate clutter and this is a good excuse to declutter.
I'll be interested to hear how your brake lines and fuel lines progress - I just got done watching Greg's videos on these two topics - the bending looks fairly involved.

Keep up the good work!

[rhk118]

Any progress is progress! Glad to hear you have local builders to huddle with - I am sure that really helps. I know there is someone around here building a roadster; I need to follow-up with the local FFR club.

Thanks for all the feedback - I am pretty much settled on the T56 close ratio and 3:55. My engine choice has evolved a little since the friend that was donating a 302 has another friend with a different 302 with a quad twin weber setup that he was going to put in to a De Tomaso - this certainly has my interest!

Also, with respect to unsprung weight your feedback was very helpful - I'm going to stop overthinking that topic and just by some "starter" wheels and tires that I like the look o which are not too expensive and see if I like them.

Your point about putting a Miata engine in was somewhat poignant to me; I had been thinking about how the Daytona basically weighs the same as a Miata yet we are thinking that 300hp is underpowered!

last week I was on vacation and I always wake up hours before my wife. So I decided I was going to read Paul's build thread from end-to-end; I'm a slow reader because I always ended up researching stuff. However, the outcome was me ordering a whole bunch of tools and some parts! I must have ordered most of the tools Paul describes including the three tube benders and Eastwood flaring tool. LOL - I now have a bunch of packages arriving and my wife is giving me the look.
My idea is to get used to using these tools by bending some stainless tubes and see if I can learn the double flare. Also I want to play around with riveting and threading into tubing and generally get a feel for the different steps along with testing some things.
I think I saw someone use the term they were "nesting" in their garage in some of the months while they were waiting - I was doing this on Sunday, pulling my garage apart and doing some dumpster runs trying to figure out where all the boxes and body will go. Decided to get rid of whole bunch of stuff I have accumulated in the last couple of years - I hate clutter and this is a good excuse to declutter.
I'll be interested to hear how your brake lines and fuel lines progress - I just got done watching Greg's videos on these two topics - the bending looks fairly involved.

Keep up the good work!

Engine sounds fantastic! Yes I did the same with Paul's build. I tried to find that little 3/16 bender he mentions and it is normally around $40 but isn't available anywhere that I can find except from some gouger on Amazon selling them for $140! So didn't get that one. If you have a source for it let me know.

I have packages arriving 1-2 times a week and am still "nesting." Work and life is busy this month so not much work on the car but do have time here and there to think further down the line and order things I pushed off like the driving lights and rear lights I'm going to use. EPAS Performance electric steering just came this weekend, so will need to mock that up before the drivers footbox gets to busy. Got a bunch of things from Levy Racing as well that I'm quite happy with and still need to paint some parts...Tons to do, little or no time at the moment!

[F500guy]

A note on the fuel cell, you can get remote fill, may take some figuring but should be able to route the hose to the normal fill location, most have a flapper on the fill inlet for rollover protection. Also they should be good for 10 years. I just recently pulled one that was 20 years old and still fully functional. Funny about the Miata, I tried to explain to my dad a Cobra was about the same footprint and weight of my Miata and I wanted to put in a 427. He already thought the 180 hp was pretty spirited.

[rhk118]

A note on the fuel cell, you can get remote fill, may take some figuring but should be able to route the hose to the normal fill location, most have a flapper on the fill inlet for rollover protection. Also they should be good for 10 years. I just recently pulled one that was 20 years old and still fully functional. Funny about the Miata, I tried to explain to my dad a Cobra was about the same footprint and weight of my Miata and I wanted to put in a 427. He already thought the 180 hp was pretty spirited.

Thank you for that input...the threads I looked at early on all converted to an in-trunk fill which I wasn't interested in...something else to look into, although I suspect wouldn't work with the trunk storage box I'm planning on using...however, nothing welded or riveted to the thing yet.

[jgray]

Engine sounds fantastic! Yes I did the same with Paul's build. I tried to find that little 3/16 bender he mentions and it is normally around $40 but isn't available anywhere that I can find except from some gouger on Amazon selling them for $140! So didn't get that one. If you have a source for it let me know.

I have packages arriving 1-2 times a week and am still "nesting." Work and life is busy this month so not much work on the car but do have time here and there to think further down the line and order things I pushed off like the driving lights and rear lights I'm going to use. EPAS Performance electric steering just came this weekend, so will need to mock that up before the drivers footbox gets to busy. Got a bunch of things from Levy Racing as well that I'm quite happy with and still need to paint some parts...Tons to do, little or no time at the moment!

I bought the small 3/16 bender from Inline tube for $39. It was delivered over the weekend. Here is the URL: https://www.inlinetube.com/products/tlb00

I have been looking in detail at powered steering - watched a great youtube where a guy literally tore and cut apart an old unit - it really helped me understand the inner workings. I am concerned because I was down in San Francisco at the autocross where Greg's (rsnake) powersteering failed. I think he has a separate post going on this topic. From what I heard fluid leaked out into the rubber covers that go over the end of the rack. A friend of mine has electric power steering on his 64 Vette and is waiting to get it for a 69 Mustang. So that brings me to my next question (since I know you have deeply researched everything you are doing!) - why are you going with electric and why EPAS?

[rhk118]

I bought the small 3/16 bender from Inline tube for $39. It was delivered over the weekend. Here is the URL: https://www.inlinetube.com/products/tlb00

I have been looking in detail at powered steering - watched a great youtube where a guy literally tore and cut apart an old unit - it really helped me understand the inner workings. I am concerned because I was down in San Francisco at the autocross where Greg's (rsnake) powersteering failed. I think he has a separate post going on this topic. From what I heard fluid leaked out into the rubber covers that go over the end of the rack. A friend of mine has electric power steering on his 64 Vette and is waiting to get it for a 69 Mustang. So that brings me to my next question (since I know you have deeply researched everything you are doing!) - why are you going with electric and why EPAS?

Intersting, that bender was backordered on InLine Tube as of this weekend...will grab one now.

EPAS simply because the car likely doesn't need a lot of assist and you can literally turn up or down the assist with a rheostat with the electric. Read a lot of posts where folks felt that even with the "lowest setting" or most restrictive valve, or even with a racing power steering unit there was still too much assist. I like my steering stiff. However I have a side by side that I tear around it and plow my driveway with and it doesn't have power steering. Its fine when going but with a lot of tight maneuvering I get tendonitis in my forearm which takes 5 weeks to calm down if I flare it up. So I don't want just a manual rack in this, but I really don't want the steering assist in this to be like a toyota camry and be too easy either - I'd rather no assist than too easy if that makes sense, personal preference...less assist I find easier to drive quickly as well, faster = less driver input needed and less likely to be turning the wheel too much when you get on washboarded sections or bumps...I addition I don't have to worry about the steering pump, lines and rack down the road.

[jgray]

Intersting, that bender was backordered on InLine Tube as of this weekend...will grab one now.

EPAS simply because the car likely doesn't need a lot of assist and you can literally turn up or down the assist with a rheostat with the electric. Read a lot of posts where folks felt that even with the "lowest setting" or most restrictive valve, or even with a racing power steering unit there was still too much assist. I like my steering stiff. However I have a side by side that I tear around it and plow my driveway with and it doesn't have power steering. Its fine when going but with a lot of tight maneuvering I get tendonitis in my forearm which takes 5 weeks to calm down if I flare it up. So I don't want just a manual rack in this, but I really don't want the steering assist in this to be like a toyota camry and be too easy either - I'd rather no assist than too easy if that makes sense, personal preference...less assist I find easier to drive quickly as well, faster = less driver input needed and less likely to be turning the wheel too much when you get on washboarded sections or bumps...I addition I don't have to worry about the steering pump, lines and rack down the road.

I too like the steering stiff rather than light - the issue I have with various friends' muscle cars is the lightness/lack-of-feel in the steering combined with being overpowered and having unrefined suspension. When I rode in Dave's Daytona down in San Francisco it felt very assured in cornering - it "hunkered" down which is similar to the feeling I get in the C8 which inspires a lot of confidence. So next thing for me to research is electric power assist. And I agree, not having to deal with all that plumbing will be a good thing.
I am also thinking of not putting in windshield wipers and just using RainX - after all it hardly ever rains out here in California and a car with this much power in the wet with no traction control will be a little intimidating - but I certainly will be taking it somewhere that I can slide around and see how it handles, which is why I will put less expensive tires on initially.

[rhk118]

Lots going on, not much physical progress on the build, but a lot of mental progress…if that’s a thing.

I finished the door for the trunk box, and got hardware installed on the removable panels over the foot boxes using Paul’s build as the template for both. Happy with each of these, thank you Paul for your example and your help here. Outside of the door will be carpeted, compartment-side of the door will have some sound proofing.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172677&d=1663542367

Cleco Toxicity:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172678&d=1663542367

And Paul was correct, I used the cutout portion of the trunk floor for the floor of my storage box which includes the access panel to the fuel tank and it isn’t centered enough over the fuel sending unit to really be able to troubleshoot anything other than connect and disconnect the harness. Any issues with the tank, easiest to drop the tank with any issues down the road.

[rhk118]

It was a GREAT weekend. Received a box from FFR on Friday with A LOT off parts…I sincerely hope their new software system makes a huge difference for all, as they are some incredibly hard working and busy people at FFR. I received just about all the parts on my POL except for pressed mesh (won’t need that for quite a while), some weatherstrip of some sort, and the 14 flanged distorted locknuts that I need to put in the rear diff and complete the IRS (will need those soon).


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172655&d=1663531442

Saturday I received my front and rear brakes (Wilwood 6 pot front, 4 pot rears), brake bias adjuster, and electronic parking brake from Levy Racing. I also received my fuel pump, vent and upgraded fuel tank gaskets/vent from LR as well the prior week. So with the arrival of my fuel tank cover from FFR Friday I was able to install the fuel tank. The only annoyance was the tank straps from FFR didn’t seem to be bent enough (and I had long on the right, and short on the left per the manual) and the powder coating on them cracked and is flaking off where I had to adjust bends to get them to fit. The mock up leaves me with some questions (mostly around the fuel filler pipe brace/holder), but they don’t need answers yet.


Cracked and flaking off powder coat, both of the straps, it seems they don’t even fit the tank at all, lots of gap. Don’t know if this can be re-powder coated (suspect not easily) or just scuff it all up and re-paint.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172659&d=1663531473


Flattening the tabs on the tank…I have nylon inserts for my vise so put them on and used the vise to press out the 3 tabs on the tank and flatten them. Much easier than I thought this task would be, worked well.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172660&d=1663531473

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172652&d=1663531442


Aeromotive 340 l/hr pump. Has female -6 AN connections and is all ready to drop in the tank out of the box. The wiring harness is big and was a bit of a pain, but it is in.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172657&d=1663531473

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172686&d=1663545759

Question – Does the locking ring just need to go to where it is sitting, or does it tap it in so the end of the lip that sticks up (circled) goes under the mounting tabs center (arrow)???


Now that I have just about all my parts (no engine for a while though) I spent today performing a thorough “second inventory.” Put all the POL items I’ve received into their respective boxes and removed the things I know I will not be using into their own pile and was able to empty 6 boxes. Labeled everything very clearly on my inventory sheets so there is no question where things are. Ready to go. Well except 3/8” annealed stainless tubing is near impossible to find in lengths greater than 3 feet….haha!

On a final note, these gems showed up on my stoop as well over the weekend and I am thrilled with them. I realize they are an acquired taste and not for everybody, but they are a very clean replica of Lucas tri-bar 7 inch headlights. Have seen some pictures of the original Daytona Coupes racing with tri-bar lights and personally I like the look. The H4 LED bulbs I have fit them. Only hitch is there is a pilot light in them and will either use it as a switchable “daytime running light” or put in an orange bulb and use it with blinkers. Very happy with these.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172656&d=1663531473

[edwardb]

Nice progress. Looks like you have the fuel tank retainer ring installed properly. Those tabs fit against the stops pictured. There should be a dimple underneath those raised areas that also locks it into place. Those tank straps are strange. I've never received any with that much coating. Whatever it is. Not surprised it cracked. You want that steel material protected. No place for rust. Had a buddy lose a strap on a tank and it was a close call. Personally, I'd replace them. Not expensive and widely available. Like these https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-578-063-Ford-Mercury-Straps/dp/B0049DR5PC.

[jgray]

Nice progress Hank - great looking headlights - where di you get them feom?

[rhk118]

Personally, I'd replace them. Not expensive and widely available. Like these https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-578-063-Ford-Mercury-Straps/dp/B0049DR5PC.

Paul - thanks for that link, was thinking these were a specific FFR part, glad that is not the case. Replacement cost definitely worth it over all the work it would take to repaint these.


Nice progress Hank - great looking headlights - where di you get them feom?

Thanks jgray. I found them at the link below, but if you search for P700 you will find them everywhere with prices all over the map. Careful that they come in sets for Right- and Left-hand drive (you want left hand drive, seems simple until you read where left hand drive sometimes means you drive on the left hand side of the road which is usually a right hand drive car :p . Reminds me of the quote: "Dyslexics of the world...UNTIE!" haha). It is an interesting site to go thorough as well as they have new in box old stock parts, and just neat to see it all - I love that stuff. I like the look of these as the 60's Jaguars used them and the front of the coupe has that similar gorgeous long hood, plus these were used in Europe and I suspect when the team needed to replace some headlights in Europe these were everywhere there so there are some pictures of the original 6 with tri-bar lights, just an interesting to look at detail for those that notice...OK enough waxing philosophical...

https://jollyrogersmotors.com/store/p/740-Lucas-style-P700-Headlamp-Pair-New.html

[Namrups]

Hank, When you get to the brake bias adjuster please post a lot of pictures. I can not for the life of me figure out how that is installed in the coupe. It has stumped a couple of others also. Good luck and I hope you figure it out.

[rhk118]

Hank, When you get to the brake bias adjuster please post a lot of pictures. I can not for the life of me figure out how that is installed in the coupe. It has stumped a couple of others also. Good luck and I hope you figure it out.

Will do Scott. Was given a couple hints that I haven't investigated yet including a right angle adapter for the balance adjuster cable allowing it to connect to the engine side of the balance bar. Thats all I know for now!

In the meantime was able to get my front transmission tunnel bent in the proper direction and suspension bits hanging for paint.

[Gordon Levy]

The bias adjuster will attach to the right side of the pedal assy and come out the side of the foot box. You can turn it and mount it somewhere on the forward tunnel above the trans tunnel and below the dash. Make sure you have a smooth curve in the cable and it can be shortened to whatever length you need for proper fit.

[rhk118]

The bias adjuster will attach to the right side of the pedal assy and come out the side of the foot box. You can turn it and mount it somewhere on the forward tunnel above the trans tunnel and below the dash. Make sure you have a smooth curve in the cable and it can be shortened to whatever length you need for proper fit.

Thanks Gordon. Have you ever seen someone use one of these? Not cheap but found a nearby coupe builder and he mounted one of these between the brake and clutch pedals and it works on the left hand side (facing forward) of the balance bar. It does limit him going to 100% full rear bias (it crashes into the clutch pedal at extreme rear bias), but presumably one would never need that. Allows the knob to be mounted on the left side of the dash. Appreciate your thoughts on it (will be calling at some point anyway with some questions but want to get suspension and brakes hung first).

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/til-72-560
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172708&d=1663616090

Here is the mounting location (he's fitting his doors, fiberglass dust all over):
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172707&d=1663616090

[Chopper]

Check out this thread. It's a roadster, but pretty much the same thing applies. He's using a 90 degree adapter like the one shown. Posts #442 and #444.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Four-Wheel-Alignment/page12#post500196 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Four-Wheel-Alignment/page12#post500196)

[Namrups]

Will do Scott. Was given a couple hints that I haven't investigated yet including a right angle adapter for the balance adjuster cable allowing it to connect to the engine side of the balance bar. Thats all I know for now!

In the meantime was able to get my front transmission tunnel bent in the proper direction and suspension bits hanging for paint.

I did spend the money for the 90* adapter. As in the other post the adapter will hit the clutch if put on the DS and there is a steel brace that would have to be modified on the PS to use it. BYW the cable is to big to fit into the adapter and will have to be ground down a little. I think the brace will also have to be altered some if you used the cable on the PS without the adapter. Still looking into it.

[rhk118]

I did spend the money for the 90* adapter. As in the other post the adapter will hit the clutch if put on the DS and there is a steel brace that would have to be modified on the PS to use it. BYW the cable is to big to fit into the adapter and will have to be ground down a little. I think the brace will also have to be altered some if you used the cable on the PS without the adapter. Still looking into it.

Yes, looking at the car there is a brace there on the PS but it might not get in the way once the cable is attached to the bar, worst case is a little will need to be ground away/trimmed to fit it. Gordon's location certainly is the most direct. Looks like in the link Chopper sent above he was able to get that 90 degree adapter fitted no problem. Ordered one and will play around with it. Also considering using that lock nut to prevent myself from overly rear-biasing the brakes with the knob....one more thing to put on the "list" of preferences ;)

[LateApex]

For what it's worth, I mounted the adjuster in the same location (roughly) as the photo above on my coupe. I did not use a 90-degree adapter, just a straight section of the provided cable. A zip tie (or wiring loom bracket) can be used to lift the cable just a smidgen, and it clears the clutch arm quite nicely. Note I have arranged my brake master cylinders such that the front brakes are served by the DS master cylinder and the rear by the PS master cylinder - this was done in part for more straight forward brake line routing to front and rear brakes from the cylinders (at least in the plan I implemented). I have also offset the master cylinder to clevis adjustment such that the balance bar is cocked, similar to the Wilwood balance bar lever adjustment illustration, where the front brakes have a longer "throw" (if you will). This also creates some additional clearance between cable and clutch.

Hope this helps.

Note my footbox is buttoned up at the moment - I can remove the top and provide a photo if that would be useful

[rhk118]

Bob, If you have to go in there for any reason yes a photo would help me, but don't go taking it apart for just that picture. I looked at the brake bias adjuster a little bit the other night but need to study it more. My plan is to obviously have more front bias than the rear, and am planning on putting a lock nut along the bar so I can't accidentally give myself more than 50% rear brake bias if that makes sense. Have to in my own mind do the mental gymnastics of bar angle and how much extra or less force it applied to the particular master cylinder so I don't do this backwards accidentally!

Question from your description - did you run a single brake reservoir with a "Y-" adapter to the 2 masters or did you use 2 separate reservoirs? So your brake line comes out of master cylinder, likely down inside of DS of transmission tunnel then out back?

Second Question - With the bar "bias" you built in to the install so the adjuster cable doesn't mess with the clutch pedal top, are your pedals even? I need to have my brake and clutch pedals level with each other just out of preference...

I imagine all these revelations will happen for me as I build regardless haha!

[LateApex]

Here you go:

The first image shows 8-32 rivnuts for the foot box top, and the location of my reservoirs. I can lower the reservoirs to top them off as needed, and I can lift them up for good gravity feed. There are two reservoirs, the leftmost being for brakes and the right most for the clutch. You can also see the "Y" connection for sharing the brake reservoir.

172934

This next image looks straight down on the balance bar. You can see about 1/4" more reservoir shaft on the left most (front) master cylinder and the cocking of the bar - this is with no pressure applied. At the bottom of the photo, one can also see the coupler for the adjuster cable.

172935

This photo is perhaps a better shot, as you can see how the cable is slightly above the clutch pedal clevis. I route the cable to the outside square upper frame and loosely tie it to my front electrical harness loom.

172936

Last, an interior shot of the foot box. You can see that my clutch pedal is maybe 1/4" - 3/8" proud of my brake pedal. It is even with my dead pedal. There is more clutch travel than brake travel, I use the right foot for braking and the brake pedal is aligned with the accelerator pedal for heel to toe. All of this can be adjusted as I get this baby on the road and rack up a few miles. Note also that driver's seating position is a little leftward (must be waiting for that next turn at Daytona ...)

172938

Hope this helps !

[rhk118]

Here you go:

The first image shows 8-32 rivnuts for the foot box top, and the location of my reservoirs. I can lower the reservoirs to top them off as needed, and I can lift them up for good gravity feed. There are two reservoirs, the leftmost being for brakes and the right most for the clutch. You can also see the "Y" connection for sharing the brake reservoir.

172934

This next image looks straight down on the balance bar. You can see about 1/4" more reservoir shaft on the left most (front) master cylinder and the cocking of the bar - this is with no pressure applied. At the bottom of the photo, one can also see the coupler for the adjuster cable.

172935

This photo is perhaps a better shot, as you can see how the cable is slightly above the clutch pedal clevis. I route the cable to the outside square upper frame and loosely tie it to my front electrical harness loom.

172936

Last, an interior shot of the foot box. You can see that my clutch pedal is maybe 1/4" - 3/8" proud of my brake pedal. It is even with my dead pedal. There is more clutch travel than brake travel, I use the right foot for braking and the brake pedal is aligned with the accelerator pedal for heel to toe. All of this can be adjusted as I get this baby on the road and rack up a few miles. Note also that driver's seating position is a little leftward (must be waiting for that next turn at Daytona ...)

172938

Hope this helps !

INCREDIBLY helpful Bob. Looks like a great install, thanks so much!....would love to see an overview shot of your engine compartment as well with front of engine and how you laid things out (OK so mostly want to see that 8-stack :cool: )....

Question about the balance bar and your driver-most side master cylinder - you still have the set screw and lock nut installed on the pushrod mount...I assume you loosened that so that the brake bias adjuster will actually turn the balance bar? I had read instructions to remove that set screw and locknut completely when using the bias adjuster....And I like that position for mounting the bias adjuster knob, out of the way but easy to get to.

Also your dead pedal - Russ Thompson? What did you secure it to? Looks nice. I learn so much looking at others' builds...

[LateApex]

I still have the set screw and lock nut in place, but not securing the balance bar. I saw no reason to remove those completely - it is a good a place to store those bits as any box of parts on my shelves :-) To be honest, I deferred my decision on the balance bar adjuster purchase to some point mid-build when I was waiting for kit parts to arrive to make forward progress. Such is the peril of delayed part delivery !

Dead pedal was from Mark Reynolds (Breeze). It secures quite well to the frame upright just left of the clutch pedal, and offers good adjust-ability. I have it snugged left to that foot box sidewall, as there is precious little foot space in the foot box :-). To that point, I have a pair of LEMS, which is a flat bottom narrow set of gym shoes for driving. 1/10th the cost of some Ferrari shoe, and much smaller than a pair of hiking boots - Haha. Half serious actually: When one gets in the coupe for their first go-kart, they will be fishing around for the pedals with their feet, or at least for the correct pedal :-) Spacing of the pedals is something to consider carefully IMO.

On my kit accelerator pedal, I actually turned the whole thing around, bent the down-stay appropriately, and sent the cable through the frame upright on the right side of the foot box. That was a little puzzle to solve. I like puzzles, as I suppose we all do :-) Seriously tho, routing the accelerator cable is not that trivial: there is a steering column in the mix, and one is trying to keep all the bends between pedal and induction to the largest radius possible :-)

The adjuster knob, unless you are wearing out tires on the track in a matter of hours, is something one rarely needs to tweak. Think about it. You buy a high performance sedan or coupe from a factory, where is the brake bias adjustment knob? The brake balance is all designed in, considering brake rotor sizes, vehicle weight balance, yadda, yadda. Unless one is pushing this vehicle hard at the track, the bias is set and forget methinks. I guess this explains my earlier comment about deferring the adjuster purchase until I was bored ... :-)

'Nuff for now ...

[Dave Tabor]

post #9 in this thread may also be helpful:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?33659-Wilwood-Remote-Bias-Adjuster-in-Gen-3-Coupe

I tweak brake bias quite a bit- at the track- especially under trail-braking (braking around to the corner apex before rolling on the throttle) if the back end starts to come around too much- you want it to come around somewhat - sort of the complement to oversteer under throttle. Also good to be able to adjust at autocross events where the pads/tires are not fully heated- or if you are playing around with brake pad choices.

Dave
Gen III #17

[LateApex]

I'd be curious to know how many folks are installing an adjuster knob who are not planning track time.

For those just planning to drive on roads, the adjustment knob is certainly a convenient way to literally "dial in your brakes" (as opposed to fishing around in a crowded foot box)

Totally agree with your comments Dave, and thanx for the link.

Trail breaking is a skill I practiced at the track on motorcycles. Of course a balance bar is not in play there. And the lessons can get pretty rough if one grabs too much of a front brake (for example)

I need to find a skid pad !!

[LateApex]

Yes, looking at the car there is a brace there on the PS but it might not get in the way once the cable is attached to the bar, worst case is a little will need to be ground away/trimmed to fit it. Gordon's location certainly is the most direct. Looks like in the link Chopper sent above he was able to get that 90 degree adapter fitted no problem. Ordered one and will play around with it. Also considering using that lock nut to prevent myself from overly rear-biasing the brakes with the knob....one more thing to put on the "list" of preferences ;)

Lock nut on the balance bar itself, like a travel limiter? Interesting idea !

[rhk118]

post #9 in this thread may also be helpful:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?33659-Wilwood-Remote-Bias-Adjuster-in-Gen-3-Coupe

I tweak brake bias quite a bit- at the track- especially under trail-braking (braking around to the corner apex before rolling on the throttle) if the back end starts to come around too much- you want it to come around somewhat - sort of the complement to oversteer under throttle. Also good to be able to adjust at autocross events where the pads/tires are not fully heated- or if you are playing around with brake pad choices.

Dave
Gen III #17

That is a great read Dave, thank you. Appreciate your pictures in there as well coming off the right side of the balance bar and into the engine compartment. This is also what Gordon Levy suggests. I had the worry as well that the size of the hole you bring the bias adjuster cable through could potentially interfere with the leveraging of the balance bar and hence your actual brake balance -- glad you brought up that detail as well...Then reading Logan's post he did what I am thinking of doing and shortened the balance bar to make room for the 90 degree tilton adapter (just arrived yesterday, it is a solid, quality piece...just not sure destined for my car yet).

Imagine you are not having issues with biasing with your setup?

Unrelated question Dave - for your track days and Auto-X what do they require for seats/# of points on belts? I really like Paul's Corbeau seats but you can only use 4-points...I will never be racing this in competition, just Auto-X and track days...


Lock nut on the balance bar itself, like a travel limiter? Interesting idea !

Yes, exactly that Bob, so if I lose track of turns on that knob I'm not accidentally setting myself to 70% rear bias for example. But reading that thread Dave posted looks like there should be a locknut at the end of where your cable attaches to the balance bar as well so it doesn't spin itself loose over time.

This is all great discussion! I realize we are all reinventing the wheel and many others have been here before but appreciate it guys!

[rhk118]

tl;dr...Have a second person available when mounting the differential...

Got the differential hung today. Recommend use of a friend, this was a bit of a wrestling match as the mounting points on my chassis didn't line up completely with the differential...close but not close enough for it to just "go in". The first bolt obviously was easiest, then the remaining 3 were just a couple mm off (all in different directions) relative to the bushing sleeves requiring the use of pry bars, pry 2x4 between the diff and the frame, prying it over then using ratchet straps to hold the differential in place, and for the final bolt (passenger side front) had to grind down the tip of the bolt to a taper so it would bridge the gap between the drilled hole and the lining sleeve. Thought about overdrilling the 5/8" mounting holes on the front of the diff, but with tapering the nose of the mounting bolt with a piece of wood between frame and the mounting sleeve (to prevent the mounting sleeve from pushing out of the bushings when trying to get the bolt though, even when tapered), while simultaneously using my entire weight on a prybar, the last bolt went in. The last 2 bolts (the fronts) did push the bushings on the front side out 1/2 way, but tightening and torquing the flanged nut "pulled" them back in. Regardless, mission accomplished, just didn't expect that and needed the second person.

One ratchet strap holding the frame to the lift, the other pulling the front of the diff towards the drivers side:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173047&d=1664069014

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173049&d=1664069014

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173048&d=1664069014

[rhk118]

Work, kids sports, life….been a few weeks since last update. Front suspension and IRS installed with brakes, and the fuel lines run. Was waiting on deformed thread flanged nuts for all the IRS components from Factory Five, so ended up getting them from McMaster thinking I’d move quicker…nope…before I got anything installed I received large washers and nylon locknuts as their replacement on my POL from Factory Five. I ended up using the ones from McMaster, just look cleaner. Then part way through installing the rear IRS knuckles figured out I had received 2 extra suspension locknuts rather than 2 other parts that link the upper control arm to the knuckle (I had counted the 2 extra parts as the ones I needed). As usual Factory Five had the parts on my stoop in a day. Off to pictures…

Rear hubs I had painted before pressing back in the studs, then painted the stud heads separately, this worked OK for the rears but created a problem on the fronts:

Rear:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174553&d=1667784588

Rear hub mounted to knuckle:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174554&d=1667784588

Front hub:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174567&d=1667784724

On the front hub you can see the splined portion of the studs supplied is longer than the thickness of the hub. I had used a bearing-based stud installer with an impact gun and that extra length of the splined portion of the stud got stuck in the bearing. Fun. Screwdrivers, prybars, hammers, and 1 broken stud installer later went with the washer/nut method, you can see the circles on the hub face from that. More fun was when trying to mount the rotors, the hat holes were also too small to fit over these wider sections (you can see in the picture of my spacer what I mean). Had to sand those things down and also Dremel out the powdercoat on the rotor hats to get them to sit flush over these things. Thought it was due to my paint, but there was actually too much metal there. Just in the front, no issue with the rears, studs there were the same diameter all the way to the hub face.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174568&d=1667784724

IRS coming together without knuckles fully installed:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174556&d=1667784588

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174555&d=1667784588


IRS with shocks and knuckles fully mounted:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174559&d=1667784645

[rhk118]

Brakes
Started by ceramic coating the calipers and rotor hats. This stuff lasts a couple years on calipers in my experience, makes cleaning off brake dust easier.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174552&d=1667784588

Assembling rotors and safety-wiring. Never done this before. I had a serious problem seeing the trees from the forest here – you wire 2 bolts together, yet I seemed to keep leaving one in-between my next wire and had to cut about 5-6 nice safety wires out and redo because of this. Also your knuckles will really appreciate you if you only pull on the wire with locked safety wire clamps. You pliers won’t always hold on no matter how hard you squeeze.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174560&d=1667784645

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174561&d=1667784645


Fronts Installed:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174577&d=1667784776

Rears Installed:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174571&d=1667784724

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174572&d=1667784750

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174570&d=1667784724

I’m using the Wilwood electronic parking brake, and you can see the motors on the EPB calipers there. These are reversed (right side mounted on left, left on right) so the motor doesn’t interfere with the shocks. Something about getting this all installed that makes things feel like progress is being made. Most non-car folks I think could identify this as some type of vehicle now.

[rhk118]

I’m using the Levy Racing brake kit that will fit the 17” rims, not the FFR Wilwood kit. One thing about this kit is the front caliper bracket and spindle need to be ground down a bit in order to fit. The rear mount bolts right on with no modification needed.

Spindle modification (just on the upper caliper bracket bolt hole):
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174566&d=1667784671

Caliper bracket modification – just need to grind down the upper “elbow” so that the hole lines up with the upper bolt hole on the front spindle, you can see how much material was removed compared to the other hole:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174565&d=1667784671

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174564&d=1667784671

[rhk118]

Fuel Lines:

Was able to get the new fuel tank straps mounted without any chipping of the powder coat, part numbers the exact same as those Paul suggested on Amazon. Otherwise completely mimicking others here using 3/8 stainless tubing. Having never done any bending before of fuel or brake lines, I started with 3/8 copper tubing as others suggest to make a template, then went from the template. I thought stainless would be a total pain in the butt to work with based on discussions here but didn't find it too bad. I guess talk to me after I've been flaring brake lines!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174574&d=1667784750

Using the same Trick-Flow fuel filter as others and all 6AN fittings I picked up from Mark at Breeze along with the coated stainless PTFE soft line.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174576&d=1667784750

Things just zip-tied in the tunnel right now until I run the rear brake line so I can line everything up, and may make the same bend Paul did to keep the fuel line out of the way of the shifter, hence that line is just a tad longer:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174575&d=1667784750

Next step -- brake lines...

[Dave Tabor]

That is a great read Dave, thank you. Appreciate your pictures in there as well coming off the right side of the balance bar and into the engine compartment. This is also what Gordon Levy suggests.

Imagine you are not having issues with biasing with your setup?

Unrelated question Dave - for your track days and Auto-X what do they require for seats/# of points on belts? I really like Paul's Corbeau seats but you can only use 4-points...I will never be racing this in competition, just Auto-X and track days...



Hi Hank,

No issues with the balance bar nor the adjuster as I have it set up. I don't like having the cable routing hole into the engine compartment but I'm not running a high-pressure fuel system either.

For seats/belts I use Kirkey high-backs and Scroth Profi ASM harness with a sub-belt set up as a 6-point setup.

https://www.schrothracing.com/item/profi-ii-asm/fia-4-point-asm

You can read about the ASM system at the link above - make your own conclusions about the need for a sub-belt but I do run a sub-belt (you just order a 6-point sub-belt from Scroth) - the buckle/release has an empty receptacle for it. One disadvantage of the ASM is that after one hit in an accident, that ASM belt will now be loose for any subsequent hit say as you cartwheel down the track.

Dave
Gen III #17

[Gordon Levy]

Hank, on the rear shocks, turn the lowers ends so the adjusters point in, they will be easier to get to to adjust.

[rhk118]

Haha! I thought about that momentarily then my "Attention Deficit OHHH SHINY" must have kicked in...easier to do now than once wheels mounted up and where'd the adjusters go? I love the heft of this brake kit and just how easy pad changes will be. Thanks Gordon.

[rhk118]

M1 Concourse - American Speed Festival 9/1/22-10/2/22

A friend and I flew from Maine to Pontiac Michigan in late September/Early October for the 2nd annual American Speed Festival at M1 Concourse which is a private track/garage condo setup but open to the public for this and similar events. If you're into cars at all (haha), and you can make it next year, was worth the trip.

More importantly they were celebrating 60 years of Shelby and I was able to swing the weekend off to go. Had a hunch there would be some coupes there, and man were they. 3 McCluskey Coupes (built from the original bucks and to the original spec of the first 6 even though they were all different), a couple Superformance coupes, and Paul and his FFR coupe were there on the Sunday as part of a local Shelby car club show. I got to meet Peter Brock and spent a couple minutes chatting with him on the Saturday, got to meet Paul who has been a tremendous resource for me and I'm sure most of us on here, and more importantly got to see Peter Brock stop his golf cart and hop out to run over to Paul's car, take pictures of it, then have Paul get out and chat for a while (theres a thread on that), what a great moment.

And then there were the cars. I took a lot of pictures of these things as there weren't many people around early in the morning. If there is some detail you'd like to see better on as close to an original as you can get, or Paul's car (thanks Paul), I'm happy to post. But here are a few. On Sunday Peter had a Q&A and question was asked about aerodynamics. You can see the Superformance has more of a "bubble" to the cockpit and apparently this was the original design (closest of the 4 cars in the first picture), 3-4 MPH faster down a long straight than the "flat-roofed" versions (similar to the FFR Type 65)....I won't be missing any of that speed. When they took the car to have it built in Italy, the Italians changed the roofline to the same line as the Ferrari GTOs as "thats what they knew how to build", hence the flat roof on 5 of the 6 originals. I personally think the "Italian roofline" looks better, but was a neat story.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174638&d=1667875126

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174641&d=1667875163

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174636&d=1667875126

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174635&d=1667875126

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174639&d=1667875126

Wow, just wow:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174637&d=1667875126

Finally Paul making the Ferrari Guys turn their heads!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174640&d=1667875163

[rhk118]

Brake and Fuel Lines Done.

FYI - 25 feet of Brake line is enough, 20 feet of fuel line is more than enough. I also flipped the rear shocks around so they are still mounted upside down, adjustment dials now point in toward the car.

Finished up fuel and brake lines yesterday. Used stainless for all as others have done. Fuel lines were fairly straightforward by making the copper 3/8 line templates then copying them. Not all perfect bends but they will get the job done and be relatively unseen but I know they will last and look great. The brake lines on the other hand were tedious – I think I averaged about 3 hours per line, but that included mocking up with the steel lines that came with the kit as well as drilling and tapping with the line mounts. The only stainless steel 3/16 line I could find was from summit. 3 out of 4 flares cracked, don’t think it was because of the brand I used, just the nature of the beast. I will say with 2 complete line do-overs, 25 feet of line was just enough. I'd also like to say that Gordon Levy's brake kit includes everything and all adapters needed to run the hard lines from the chassis to caliper. Thankfully no Banjo bolt snapping issues like many have had for me. I appreciate that I didn't need to search for and find all these adapters, and they were there with the brake kit!

For the brakes I started by mounting the brackets to the chassis where the hard lines meet the flex lines to the calipers so I knew where I was running the brake lines to. I tried multiple different locations with these and angles of them with a flex line installed to see which location would make the flex line bend out of the way of the shock and not interfere with where tires will eventually end up. In the end these locations were exactly where Paul mounted his, which meant making an opening in the front "engine bay" panels, but I'm happy with the locations. I Cleco'ed the brackets on and am going to have them powder coated with a bunch of other parts.

I only needed 5 lines, so 10 flares total...For each brake line run I would measure and leave myself an extra 2 inches or so, and for the first couple lines that wasn’t enough due to the number of cracked flares that had to be trimmed back leaving me short on a couple. So by the last line I was leaving 3-4 inches of excess based on my measurements and that seemed to do the trick. Even with a “gentle touch” with the 2nd flare would still get cracks, oh well, they are done for now provided no leaks!


Lines in the tunnel:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175786&d=1669477709

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175787&d=1669477709


Front Brake Lines:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175789&d=1669477709

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175790&d=1669477727


Rear Brake and Fuel lines:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175791&d=1669477727


I feel like after brake lines I’ve been in the trees, so it is cool to take a step back and just take the “forest” view in:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175792&d=1669477727

[rhk118]

Had a question on where I mounted the hard to flex line brackets for all 4 corners. I ended up determining that Paul (EdwardB)'s locations were pretty good and he has several photos in his thread. Here are a couple that I have. The first picture is the rear with the adapter and flex line I used to approximate how the flex line will bend so I could make a convexity away from the shock at each corner.

Rear:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175867&d=1669488393

Front:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175868&d=1669488393

[Namrups]

Looking good Hank! Excellent job!

[rhk118]

Swaybar question

Installed my front and rear swaybars today....rear is finished, front is mounted but not hooked up as missing a couple of the rod ends. Had all the parts for the rear so installed that, not difficult (remember if you're going to go with swaybars to install the longer bolts that come with the swaybar kit for the lower portion of the rear lower control arm, the inner rear toe arm mount, and up front the lower mount for the shock to save yourself a step of having to remove them later).

I know the rear swaybar can be controversial and will be a trial and error sort of thing but have it and mounted it for now, softest setting, but Im also running softer springs than stock (me 350#, stock 400#) which should hopefully help with compliance in weight transfer (with other option being stiff springs and no bar).

Question - I mounted the rear bar in the softest setting (furthest hole out). Because of the angle the bar is very close to contacting the lower control arm and just wondering if this looks correct? I know the car is in the air currently and nothing is compressed in the suspension, but when it does it seems this will just collapse in and the bar will be contacting the LCA....appreciate any input on this, it just looks wonky to me.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175896&d=1669515302


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175897&d=1669515302

[Namrups]

I have mine mounted on the car but I have not tightened anything down yet. I am in the second hole for now. Figured I would do final adjustment when car is on the ground and fully loaded. As you said both my front and rear look "wonky" with the car on jack stands.

[rhk118]

Hank, When you get to the brake bias adjuster please post a lot of pictures. I can not for the life of me figure out how that is installed in the coupe. It has stumped a couple of others also. Good luck and I hope you figure it out.

Hey Scott, was just going through my list and going to be a while before I get to the brake bias adjuster. Reason being is need to mount my electric steering motor behind the dash and this will by necessity be partially in the footbox, which may change where I can mount the actual adjuster knob and how I route the cable. Haven't forgotten about all the pics though!

[rhk118]

Getting there

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176171&d=1669833361

[Namrups]

Getting there

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176171&d=1669833361

Sweet!

[Blueblood]

Looks nice. I can’t make out the brand of oil pan that is. Would you share that please. Also curious to see what the depth is from the pan rail to the bottom of the pan. What is the estimated horse power?

[rhk118]

Looks nice. I can’t make out the brand of oil pan that is. Would you share that please. Also curious to see what the depth is from the pan rail to the bottom of the pan. What is the estimated horse power?

That is a rear sump Champ pan. Bought from Mike Forte. The engine is at a builder local to me so can’t get the measurement quickly although Mike says it will fit and is a part he stocks so I believe him. I dropped a 1974 302 block off at the builder in November 2021 (on my first page) and due to parts shortages it has taken him that long to get to this point. He was unable to easily source a rear sump pan so I called Mike who had one on the shelf and there it is. Forged internals, roller rockers. I imagine it will end up around 450-ish??? Going on the dyno with regular carb in the near future then with the EFI intake.

Edit: I’m 99% sure it’s this Blueblood:
https://www.champpans.com/products/p/cp351fox/

Which means 8”…I’m not sure clearance to frame rails on the gen 3 with the FFR mounts, I know gen 2 was 7.5”…so maybe this will hang down a bit too far and need changing out…if anyone knows the measurement off the top of your head please chime in, I can’t find it easily with a search…they have another road race pan that’s 7” depth.

[Blueblood]

Thanks for the info. I used the lowered engine mounts from Gordon Levy so my pan has to be 7” it lessens the options for pans but improves the hood clearance. Right now I have a bored 302 with three deuces that clears the hood without issues but I am building a 400 Windsor that may have a taller intake which I hope will clear the hood. Sounds like the 450 power plant will keep you well entertained as long as you are gentle with your right foot. Hehe

[rhk118]

Thanks for the info. I used the lowered engine mounts from Gordon Levy so my pan has to be 7” it lessens the options for pans but improves the hood clearance. Right now I have a bored 302 with three deuces that clears the hood without issues but I am building a 400 Windsor that may have a taller intake which I hope will clear the hood. Sounds like the 450 power plant will keep you well entertained as long as you are gentle with your right foot. Hehe

Glad you chimed into my thread Blueblood! I have the lowered engine mounts from Gordon Levy as well, will have to see if I use them or the Factory Five mounts when it gets to that point. I like the idea lower center of gravity and more space for air to the stack with the lower mounts, but this car is pretty low to begin with! Might just change that oil pan out to a 7" now, so thanks for looking at my engine picture and bringing that up. When I bought that pan there were severe shortages and wait times, and Mike thankfully just had one.

I assume with the lower mounts you needed to customize your headers or use different ones for the 302 when you used the lowering mounts? If I use them sounds like I need a different oil pan.

My plan for the 450 HP is wide sticky tires and really small shoes that don't reach the gas pedal too well :rolleyes:

[Blueblood]

Shorty headers bolted up perfectly and the supplied exhaust bends hooked up to the side pipes with no modifications needed. One of the items that went on without a glitch.

[rhk118]

One of the items that went on without a glitch.

:D I have learned that of which you speak :rolleyes:

[jgray]

Looks like you are making great progress Hank! That is a nice looking power plant!!

[rhk118]

Thanks! When I stand back the amount of stuff to do and keep track of on these is overwhelming. But then I look at all that has been done so far and it’s encouraging! Will be putting it down for a while with the holidays upon us and a nagging injury I need to mind.

[jgray]

Sorry to hear about the injury. The amount that goes into a build is overwhelming. I have been feeling that way, off and on. I talked to both Gordon Levy and Mike Forte this week and am in process of ordering from them - both of them were extremely helpful (as you had described) and I feel like "I am in good hands with them". I've made the decision to go with 17s rather than 18s - had been going back and forth on that for a while. I've spent a lot of time recently working on my garage to get things straightened out, and clear space for the many boxes! I am generally feeling better about all of it at this point! I hope you have great holidays - we are off to Hawaii next week which is exciting.

[rhk118]

Thanks John. Enjoy your trip and the build is completely worth it! Pinched nerve in my neck and don't really know what I did but that's a 2-4 month affair. My wife thinks I probably "drank water too hard" as the cause :rolleyes:

I just did a ton of research on tires and appreciate anybody's input on them. There are not a lot of options in 17" tires out there compared to 18" rims. My goal is to go as wide as possible so looking 275 up front and 315s out back. The 275 up front limits what is available a bit in a 17", but I imagine 275 up front will still be better than 255 up front for traction and I want this car to be slightly over-steery. Wider up front has arguments for and against inducing oversteer. Wider might bite better/better traction allowing the rear to unload under braking inducing some oversteer. Likewise wider up front might distribute pressure over a wider area making the front more apt to slide ("snowplow"), and hence understeer. Guess now way to know until you try it and compound/temp and how the suspension shifts weight likely has more to do with it rather than width.

I will be running 2 sets of rims, eventually a dedicated track/autocross/warm summer 18" set and then the 17" Halibrands will be used for Daily driving. I'm in New England so the daily tires will need to work down to 30 degrees. Won't be driving the thing in winter, but there are plenty spring and fall days around 30 in the morning and in the 50s by afternoon. Again looking for 275 width up front and 315 out back, although I guess 255 up front for daily driving would be fine.

I love Michelin PS4S tires which are great summer tires with fantastic grip and from my M3 days easily work well enough into the upper 20s (they turn to plastic at exactly 24 F). Alas no dice in 17" rims for those. Michelin does have a new all-season (snowflake certified so good for winter and all) tire called the all season 4 that comes on the new corvettes and seem to get good reviews through about 1/2 their 40K mile rated treadlife when all of a sudden entire blocks of the tire go missing and they destroy themselves if one is participating in "spirited" driving. Also traction in a low weight/high HP car like these likely isn't as good as the other options with a tire like that trying to be everything for everyone and we are building cars that like to eat tires for lunch!

So for the 17" daily rims I have basically narrowed it down to Toyo R888R, Nitto NT555 G2, and Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4. I have no idea how the Toyos or Nittos will behave in the 30-40 degree range. This car will definitely be driven in those temps. From the internet all I can gather is go easy when approaching 40 degrees. Seems the Toyos warm up quickly, treadlife is good and performance seems linear throughout treadlife. Nittos the same but lots of people mention performance seems to drop off quickly on these early on in their lives, they are less expensive so less painful to replace earlier, but I don't like the prospect of "changing traction characteristics" in a tire and not sure how much of this is true but it was mentioned in multiple individual reviews as well as some professional reviews but the tire was otherwise highly praised. The Nittos sound like better wet traction than the Toyos. I'm leaning towards the Toyo but I suspect they will really drop of around 40, and in the end for now I just need tires to make this a roller.

Looked into the BFG Rival-S and they seem to be having supply issues, or its just winter and they haven't ramped up production for next summer yet.

Anyhow just some word vomit there to sum up my research so far. I'll research track rubber when I get to that point.

Appreciate any input on handling characteristics of 255 front / 315 rear vs 275 front / 315 rear (suspect little if any differences), and daily driving any of the tires above.

[jgray]

I am really starting to feel like this is build is "for real" - I just talked to Todd at Stewart shipping and understand what is involved there.

Once again you completely out-do me in your ability to research! Dave Tabor tracks and autocrosses his Daytona consistently and he has told me "just go with the Toyo R888R". Seeing that same tire is in your list I think my decision is made! Thanks again for being my "deep research department"!

If you want to see what I have been up to while I await delivery of my Daytona, check out my attempt at being a YouTuber: https://youtu.be/d22WTQqUEIo

[Dave Tabor]

.

Once again you completely out-do me in your ability to research! Dave Tabor tracks and autocrosses his Daytona consistently and he has told me "just go with the Toyo R888R". Seeing that same tire is in your list I think my decision is made! Thanks again for being my "deep research department"!

...and we are both also out in CA.

I've run 275/305, 275/315 and 295/315 front/rear and I like the 275/315 pair the best - both looks and handling. I've never had the car understeer and I don't think that it needs any more rubber than a 275 in the front.

I've run Nitto NT01, NT05 and Toyo R888R on this car.

The NT01 were worth a couple/few seconds a the track (100 TW vs 140/200 TW of the NT05) and had noticeably more traction under braking.

R888R are more widely available so I've been running them - they feel similar to the NT01 but 'maybe' take a bit more to get them warmed up.

I've driven/tracked the Nitto NT555 (but not the G2) on another car and they are great as an all-around tire- for a car that was not as track-focused as my car is now. If I were to have a dedicated set of 'street' tires/wheels I'd use the NT555 G2.

Dave
Gen III #17
16,000+ miles

[Gordon Levy]

Currently if I was doing a hard core track set up on a gen 3 I would probably run an 18x11 or 19x11 square with a 295 or 305 width tire. 1 because there are a ton of tires available but second because i can get IMSA scrubs for a fraction of what new tires costs. This is what we do on our ST Vette and Mustangs.

[JimStone]

I'm loving following your build and everything looks great! Learning a lot from y'all which help immensely once I get my Coupe underway (hoping to purchase my kit in the spring). Keep up the good work!

[Mooch66]

Hello Hank,

I am seriously considering ordering a kit within the next couple months. May I ask what the lead time was on delivery? I may go pick it up myself when the time comes. Just curious. Thanks and good luck with your build.

Jeff

[rhk118]

Dave Tabor tracks and autocrosses his Daytona consistently and he has told me "just go with the Toyo R888R". Seeing that same tire is in your list I think my decision is made! Thanks again for being my "deep research department"!

If you want to see what I have been up to while I await delivery of my Daytona, check out my attempt at being a YouTuber: https://youtu.be/d22WTQqUEIo

Love it John! Love the name of the account better and the accent really makes it "proper" there 007 :cool: . Subscribed....would love to see a video of the airplanes as well if you ever get a chance...man that Bronco is going to be a lot of work but well worth it once done!



...and we are both also out in CA.

I've run 275/305, 275/315 and 295/315 front/rear and I like the 275/315 pair the best - both looks and handling. I've never had the car understeer and I don't think that it needs any more rubber than a 275 in the front.

I've run Nitto NT01, NT05 and Toyo R888R on this car.

The NT01 were worth a couple/few seconds a the track (100 TW vs 140/200 TW of the NT05) and had noticeably more traction under braking.

R888R are more widely available so I've been running them - they feel similar to the NT01 but 'maybe' take a bit more to get them warmed up.

I've driven/tracked the Nitto NT555 (but not the G2) on another car and they are great as an all-around tire- for a car that was not as track-focused as my car is now. If I were to have a dedicated set of 'street' tires/wheels I'd use the NT555 G2.

Dave
Gen III #17
16,000+ miles

Dave - thanks so much, I feel like you've done a lot of the legwork on what I'm planning on doing. Won't be able to track as much as you but as always appreciate your help!



Currently if I was doing a hard core track set up on a gen 3 I would probably run an 18x11 or 19x11 square with a 295 or 305 width tire. 1 because there are a ton of tires available but second because i can get IMSA scrubs for a fraction of what new tires costs. This is what we do on our ST Vette and Mustangs.

Thanks Gordon, I had read about folks running a square setup and that will definitely help like you mention in the finding proper sizes and maybe getting some more use out of the track set of rims and tires. Very good idea. I'm sure we will be talking in the not too distant future!



Hello Hank,

I am seriously considering ordering a kit within the next couple months. May I ask what the lead time was on delivery? I may go pick it up myself when the time comes. Just curious. Thanks and good luck with your build.

Jeff

Hey Jeff! I ordered my Kit in November 2021. Was scheduled to be delivered in Mid-June 2022 but someone backed out of theirs and I took that kit which arrived in late May 2022, so for me was quoted 7 months and waited 6. Pretty much my entire "punch list" of backordered parts was filled by October from FFR, 1 item I'm waiting on which I won't need until next summer likely. I'm not sure what their current lead time is from order to delivery, but FFR will let you know. In terms of delivery itself I had to wait 3-4 weeks from when I was told I could have the kit someone backed out of and when it was delivered. Had to wait on a Stewart truck headed my way. If you go pickup obviously timing on getting the kit is a lot more flexible.

[rhk118]

Quick update. Going to be in limbo for a few months on my build as herniated a disc in my neck between thanksgiving and Christmas literally doing nothing (gravy injury?) so I'm on some restrictions and that includes pretty much anything that may stress my arm/neck/shoulder area because its affecting my hand (fun). Hoping it gets better with just some TLC and PT.

Powdercoating shortage/backlog also finally caught up with the folks I'm using so looking at a couple month delay on some stuff I dropped off for them.

To brighten my day yesterday I received the first dyno from the engine builder - the 347 is alive! This was on a standard dyno carb and race fuel as a shakedown run, he said it purred with zero issues (other than small oil leak he half-expected)...EFI not installed yet. There was a small leak around the camshaft because my 302 block is from the early 1970s and the cam has seals designed for newer blocks but said no biggie, needs the old school seal. In any event I was looking for 450'ish and have to say early results, well :rolleyes: ....Next Dyno with be with the EFI installed and tune (Inglese 8-stack).

So between the powder coating delays, engine, and my actual body (not the fiberglass FFR one ;) ) I'm going to take a couple months off and live vicariously through you all.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178059&d=1673630176

[jgray]

Darn - sorry to hear about your disc injury - that is a considerable impediment to everything you do. I am sure it is highly frustrating to you. Hang in there - get yourself well. Great news on your engine. That is a lot of power!

Given your injury and that amount of power you should where a Hans device at all times!

I hope to get my kit at the beginning of March so you will be able to laugh at my mistakes as I try to catch up to you! The very first thing I turned my hand to was the Wilwood rotors where I came to a stoppage because I did not have 12 point sockets and did not have an inch pound torque - so all my reading and spending money on tools I still "fell at the first fence" to use a English horse racing term!

We are most likely going to be out on your coast in fall and hope to connect up with you then.

[rhk118]

Darn - sorry to hear about your disc injury - that is a considerable impediment to everything you do. I am sure it is highly frustrating to you. Hang in there - get yourself well. Great news on your engine. That is a lot of power!

Given your injury and that amount of power you should where a Hans device at all times!

I hope to get my kit at the beginning of March so you will be able to laugh at my mistakes as I try to catch up to you! The very first thing I turned my hand to was the Wilwood rotors where I came to a stoppage because I did not have 12 point sockets and did not have an inch pound torque - so all my reading and spending money on tools I still "fell at the first fence" to use a English horse racing term!

We are most likely going to be out on your coast in fall and hope to connect up with you then.

Absolutely you should connect up when over here! I had the same issue with the 12 point socket for the rotors and wasn't an easy find in any stores around me in that size, fortunately borrowed from a friend. you'll also need a 12 point in a slightly larger size to mount the brakes. I ordered an 11 piece tekton 1/4 inch SAE set of 12 points from home depot and that covered the gamut in sizes needed so far.

I now know what "pain in the neck" means haha! Still in the phase where I have good and bad days, know it will ne slow to heal.

[rhk118]

Aluminum: Well can’t do much with my neck but have been able to get some small things done. First back to the aluminum. My plan is to powder coat all of the aluminum panels but want the radiator tunnel bare aluminum if possible. I was not able to get all of the corrosion off of my tunnel panels, but lightly textured them with some green Scotch Brite pads which distracts from some of the corrosion. Here is the result. Looks better than the bare aluminum but not sure I “love it”…will have to see what it looks like with the radiator and fan back installed as I suspect a lot of it will be pretty much out of sight anyway:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178417&d=1674422134

----------

Rear Swaybar: I didn’t like how close the swaybar rod ends were to the lower control arm with it set to the softest setting. Although I haven’t loaded the suspension and it might be OK, it just doesn’t look right to me and worry about the swaybar contacting the lower control arm in the rear and destabilizing things, especially at speed in corners. So I bought a pair of rear rod-ends that have 2.5 inch arms rather than the 1 inch that comes in the kit. Seems to sit better unloaded, maybe I’m overthinking it but have seen where others have had to make this linkage longer when using the softest setting, we will see what happens as I get her on the ground.

Before (kid swaybar endlinks):
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175896&d=1669515302

After (longer endlink):
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178419&d=1674422134

----------

Brake Line Mounts: Finally got some parts back from powder coating. I had the little tabs that hard mount the brake lines to the frame powder coated black if anyone is interested. Those pieces unlike some of the other laser cut parts from factory five seem to be stainless and I know a lot of folks leave these bare metal for that reason. Regardless here are some pictures, mounted them with stainless rivets.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178429&d=1674422229

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178428&d=1674422229

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178427&d=1674422229


Here you can see the brake line mount relative to the caliper as well as that longer sway bar mount:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178418&d=1674422134

[David Williamson]

The rad aluminum is very visible with the hood both open and closed, I had all of mine powder coated along with the foot boxes, fire wall and splash shields.
David W

[rhk118]

Battery Mount and Reservoir:

Ordered an Odyssey AGM-28 battery that many have used and it came as a kit with an odyssey mount at a 50% discount so figured why not. It is very similar to the one Paul and others have used, problem is it is specific to this battery only which may be an issue someday in the future, but for now looks very clean. Rather than powder coating this I Ieft it bare aluminum and sprayed with Shark Hide. It has a couple of plates on the bottom that are bare steel so had those powder coated, and with them back, loosely mounted this thing to the front frame rails. Used 4 nutserts but also 2 through and through bolts just to play it safe as it is a 27# battery! Had to cut down the bottom plate so it sits flush, and will need some 1/8 inch rubber or similar so the battery not sitting on machine screw heads:

Views from the front through the radiator tunnel:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178433&d=1674424512

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178431&d=1674424512

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178432&d=1674424512

----------

Scott’s Hotrods Triple Reservoir: I like the look of the Scott’s Hotrods reservoirs. They come in different sizes, and I settled on the largest just for piece of mind that there is more than 1 ounce of extra fluid in there. I know that the 1.1 oz reservoirs are likely fine, but also like the look of these a little better, and can get the fluid level a little higher than the smaller reservoirs (these are 3 oz per chamber, the smaller ones are 1.1 oz per chamber I believe). They come in polished or matte black. I had to fashion a mounting plate from 1/8” thick aluminum that is mounted to the frame with a couple of nutserts. The back of the reservoir has an indent so those screw heads holding the mounting plate do not interfere with the reservoir. You can run the line out the bottom (as I did) or out the back, but you need to order 3 set screw plugs for the holes that aren’t being used.

Here is the back of it – you can see how it is hollowed out to accommodate the mounting plate screws and have it be flush to the mounting site. There are 3 openings for the reservoirs which I plugged. There are 4 mounting screws:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178420&d=1674422164

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178422&d=1674422164

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178421&d=1674422164

[rhk118]

Powder coated Halibrands!

Got the FFR Halibrands (17”) back from powder coating and very happy with how they turned out (for reference $600 for prep and powder coating all 4). My plan is for 2 sets of wheels/tires – these will be the “dress” / daily driving set. Decided to just go with Michelin All Season 4’s as the first set of tires as will be driving this car in cold temps, and these will help me get to know how it handles a little better as they won’t have the traction of Toyo or Nittos so can break it free at lower speeds, presumably. I like the 275 front/ 315 rear stagger as well. For now this will get me to roller phase and progress with the build.

The plan is that I will eventually have a dedicated set of summer/track rims and tires. Hoping to come up with similar sizes and offsets so I don’t need to be changing spacers with the wheel changes. But also considering a square setup for the track set…lots of time to think about this.

Before:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178423&d=1674422193

After:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178424&d=1674422193

Fronts:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178426&d=1674422193

Rears:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178425&d=1674422193

[jgray]

Great looking wheels. I bought two FFR Halibrand 17x9s from Fred down in Houston - he had them sitting around gathering dust! I then ordered two 17x10.5 from FFR that will be shipped with my kit. I fully expect the color will not match exactly but Fred gave me a deal I could not refuse. The wheels are now sitting in a prominent spot in my garage making me all the more eager to get my kit. Those look like a good tire - I think they are the same as on my C8 which is part of the Z51 package. I went to the Ron Fellows Driving school again a couple of weeks ago and they have Michelin's on their C8s. I pushed the car a lot harder this time and the tires make quite a lot of noise but they work well - had a blast learning to throttle steer around long corners with the tires squealing the whole way. They also worked really well on the watered down ski pad.

I thought you were on the injured reserve list? Looks like you are still spending money and making progress!

[jgray]

Great pics - thanks for posting them. I was just looking at all the parts that I got from Gordon and wondering exactly where do they go - so you're pictures are very helpful.

[rhk118]

I thought you were on the injured reserve list? Looks like you are still spending money and making progress!

Yes still injured reserve, trying to setup another neck steroid injection as it was improving then took another turn last weekend.

As for getting "caught" working while injured :p...All those things I posed above are delayed in that I did all the work already - Battery tray was all drilled and fitted in late October, just needed some powder coated brackets that sit under it - so literally 14 bolts to thread to loosely put it in and none are tightened down. The brake line brackets were pre-fitted and drilled back in November so only 8 rivets to place along with 4 fittings, nothing stressful. As for money spend I have a lot of parts sitting here already (tires were budgeted, powder coating rims was not but I love the blue or red cars with white faced rims)....engine is paid off but still getting built....I am going to build the serp setup on the front myself so will need all those parts....as we all say budget? nah...hobby...Last big ticket items for me will be side windows, push-button starter and possibly double door poppers (those setups seem pretty slick to me), sound proofing, PAINT, PAINT, and PAINT...then at some point race rims and tires. I'm sure I'm forgetting about another 5K in miscellaneous parts in there...

...But I've significantly slowed down my build timeframe in my head which to be honest is less stressful. As others have said the build can be a lot of fun and it is a blast which I highly recommend but there's a lot of modification that needs to happen to things, and if you get frustrated just drop it (looking at you tunnel aluminum :mad:) and work on something else that appeals to you, but this injury forcing me to slow down has taken a lot of pressure away that I had on myself to get as much done as fast as possible (and you look through these build threads and they seem quick, but a lot of us have a month or 2 between posts)...I would love to have this finished by next summer, but it's just not going to happen, and I'm cool with it! Plus to me the coupe is a very special car and I love everything about its history and what it represents...and for better or worse I'm building it (as they say "nailed it!"), for those reasons will keep it forever, and if I do ever get rid of it my middle daughter has already called "dibs" on it haha....

On the Michelin's they got great reviews....similar to PS4S in feel and stability in a straight line, not as stable in turns because of deeper tread, slightly different compound. Like you mention John Corvettes come with them, reviews from those guys are they are great but will only last about half of their 40K treadlife then start to "chunk" (I believe is the term) if really burning them up. I like that they have a snow rating and can drive down to just about any temp here I throw at them and for the build and early driving experience with the car they'll be great. Toyos or Nittos will be more fun, in the summer!

[rhk118]

Back at it…pun intended...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188327&d=1691249468

OUCH! This happened last Thanksgiving and 100% would not recommend a herniated disk with pinched nerves (not even 1 star out of 5 on yelp). It’s been 8 months and I’m starting to have more good days to the point that I feel safe working on the car again despite my body’s “new feature”. All I have to say about that is don't drink water too hard (haha). Or sneeze with your head in the wrong direction.

Not much has happened in the past 8 months. Tires got mounted. My kids pointed out that they look exactly like wheels on any Lego car….I can’t say they’re wrong but it made me laugh as I didn’t make that connection and maybe just living out a childhood dream…Tires are Michelin Pilot Sport all season 4. Live in New England and these will see time in winter during the build and likely during some shake down runs. I don't want to have to worry about using a summer tire in 20-30 degree weather and wondering if any skittishness is the suspension setup, swaybars contacting in a corner, or just cold summer tires that have turned to plastic under 40 degrees. I'm sure these won't last long and are great for the roller and "honeymoon" phase...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188326&d=1691249468

Not much else has happened over 8 months. Got some panels powder-coated. Still don’t have an engine (been almost a year at the builder now) and it seems that will be another 6 months at least as I’m completely on other people’s timeframes with that. The engine needs to get dyno’ed, tuned, and painted, then I need to build a custom front end on it. Then need to mate the T-56 and test fit to see if I need to modify the transmission mount or cut the crossbar as other’s have had to do and see if I have the correct driveshaft length. Also waiting on some welding that I’m going to have a shop do as I don’t weld. Also on other people’s timeframes. Was going to be March, then May, then June, and supposed to get in early July. I am hoping for before next year at this point.

In the meantime, I did get the fuel filler neck into the gas tank and here is my iteration of that. I was able to use the FFR supplied bracket and used a nut-sert on the frame with a bolt going through the holes on the tank and the bracket:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188325&d=1691249468

Disadvantage of this vs making my own Paul-style “U” shaped bracket is I need to drop the tank to change that if anything leaks or needs replacing and it can’t easily be taken off.

Also got the evaporator installed in what seems like the same orientation as the manual. This was much more straightforward than I thought, or maybe sometimes its better to be lucky than good. Seems all the rear end hookups are far enough from the frame that there won’t be interference. Ask me later when that all needs to be hooked up.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188324&d=1691249446

Yesterday I installed the Tolton 90 degree adapter for the Wilwood brake bias adjuster.

[rhk118]

Wilwood Brake Balance Adjuster with 90-degree Tilton Adaper (Tilton Part # 72-560)

Yesterday I installed the Wilwood brake balance adjuster using the Tilton 90-degree adapter so adjustments are made from the clutch-pedal side of the balance bar. I know this is controversial because it might limit the range of adjustment that is available on brake bias, but in my install I can reach full front bias to the locknut of the balance bar bearing and the adapter still has room relative to the clutch pedal to move freely. Fitting it seems to be the issue for most which you can see in the picture (more on that later).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188323&d=1691249446

My thoughts on this mounting location are my car will see nearly 100% street use and the occasional autocross or track time (maybe 2x a year). Because I’m not tracking it as much and going for the best times possible, potentially losing some adjustability at one end of the extreme on track isn’t a deal breaker to me. I much rather prefer not drilling a hole in the firewall to access the engine-compartment side of the balance bar where the line will then also need some mobility to slide in and out through its adjustment range (0.5-0.75"?). Since brake bias is dependent on so many variables, I will see how it works in the real world and if a bust will replace the brake with a Wilwood tru-bar pedal.

Looking at my setup - my engine-side master cylinder is for the rear brakes, my middle cylinder is front brakes, and outside cylinder is the clutch. I adjusted my balance bar to the rear brakes to the point that with brake pedal-in the rear brake cylinder hits 100% of motion with very little front cylinder action (maybe 25% of its throw length). This setting had the balance bar adjusted far toward the engine compartment, thereby opening the space between the brake pedal and clutch pedal where the 90 degree adapter would go. Since I don’t dirt-track I don’t foresee a circumstance where I will want 100% rear brake cylinder travel and maybe only 25% front brake cylinder travel. Maybe I’m wrong. With that setting there was just over 1/3 of an inch of excess balance bar sticking out on the clutch side of things – meaning threaded bar I won’t need to use. So at least 1/4 inch of that could be trimmed to make room for the 90 degree Tilton adapter between the clutch and brake.

At that point the Tilton adapter would just barely fit and would crash into the top of the clutch pedal before full front brake was available. Some length could be gained by removing the sleeve on the Tilton (set screw holds it on):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188322&d=1691249446

I then trimmed ¼ inch of balance bar off the clutch side and drilled into the end of the bar with a #26 drill bit (0.145 in diameter) so the Tilton shaft (0.25” in length) goes into the balance bar. By trimming 0.25” off of the end of the balance bar, and “insetting” the driveshaft of the Tilton adapter 0.25” into the end of the bar, it makes 0.5” of space between the balance bar and clutch – more than enough room for the Tilton adapter and full range of motion of the bar toward the front bias in my setup. I can forward bias to the point that the lock-nut on the balance bar bearing crashes into the front cylinder clevis and no further adjustment to balance can be made and there is still space for the Tilton adapter to fit and not hit the clutch pedal.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188321&d=1691249446

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188320&d=1691249446

To hold it I cross-drilled and tapped for the set screw. Yes I know it is not pretty but it works great, and there is space.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188315&d=1691249422

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188316&d=1691249422

[rhk118]

Wilwood Brake Balance Adjuster with 90-degree Tilton Adaper (Tilton Part # 72-560)

I mounted the Wilwood brake bias adjustment knob far to the left on the serial number frame rail where it will be relatively hidden, yet easy to get to. I won’t be making on-track adjustments to this thing. This location also allows a very straight shot of the cable to the 90-degree adapter with no interference from anything (yet, wiring still to be installed)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188318&d=1691249422

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188317&d=1691249422

Of note, the Wilwood adjustment cable is slightly wider than the Tilton adapter sleeve that accepts the cable and I had to bore that half of the cable sleeve of the Tilton to allow the wildwood cable to fit. I will red-loc-tite everything once things are more put together.

[LateApex]

Nice post Hank. Your implementation is very similar to mine, and you seem to have edited the same bits in similar ways to make it fit.

If one is building a pure track car, bias adjustment range may be more of a concern than I have had. And poking a hole in the tranny tunnel may be indicated. My assumption has always been that a brake system is pretty well tuned for the car, and a bias adjustment is compensating for relatively small errors in that tuning or part wear. That said, there are many experts in this space - I am just a novice. I know it is quite complex trying to tune one's brakes to perform well under both hard braking and trail braking, in the face of centers of moment and on wear / conditions, different track event format, , ..., etc.

"tuned for the car" begs a bit of definition I suppose, but is perhaps simplified to using master cylinders that are appropriate for the front and rear calipers, staying within bounds in terms of tire size offset and spring rates, and setting up M/C push rods consistent with guidance from Wilwood or others as a starting point.

I am still breaking in the Coupe, so am not driving to its [braking] limits, nor spending time on the track yet - Next weekend my intent is to attend a NASA event at High Plains Raceway. Yes, I know what a dangerous decision that may be :-)

I enjoy watching your build!!

[rhk118]

Engine has made it to tuning! Got this photo from the builder. 347 SBF, AFR heads and cam, Shelby American valve covers, Jim Inglese EFI. Once tuned will go for paint.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188808&d=1692036487

[Shakey]

Hank,

Good to see you are back at it. That engine looks awesome! I really like the 8 stack look. Its interesting how similar our builds are. I just installed my engine trans a few months back and noted my issues here, https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?46345-302-SBF-and-T56-Magnum-do-not-fit-in-a-Gen-3-coupe. It definitely took some fabrication and a lot of patience but, in my opinion defiantly worth it to get the T56 in there. Looking forward to watching your progress.

Shakey

[LateApex]

Powder coated Halibrands!

Got the FFR Halibrands (17”) back from powder coating and very happy with how they turned out (for reference $600 for prep and powder coating all 4). My plan is for 2 sets of wheels/tires – these will be the “dress” / daily driving set. Decided to just go with Michelin All Season 4’s as the first set of tires as will be driving this car in cold temps, and these will help me get to know how it handles a little better as they won’t have the traction of Toyo or Nittos so can break it free at lower speeds, presumably. I like the 275 front/ 315 rear stagger as well. For now this will get me to roller phase and progress with the build.

The plan is that I will eventually have a dedicated set of summer/track rims and tires. Hoping to come up with similar sizes and offsets so I don’t need to be changing spacers with the wheel changes. But also considering a square setup for the track set…lots of time to think about this.

Before:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178423&d=1674422193

After:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178424&d=1674422193

Fronts:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178426&d=1674422193

Rears:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178425&d=1674422193

Remind me of your body color Hank, will you? The wheels look great, and the Pilot Sports are a great tire!!

[rhk118]

Thanks Bob. Color-wise it's going to be a blue. Initially was looking at Viking, then saw the Guardsman Metallic on the coupes at the M1 Concourse last year and like the little bit of teal metallic it has in it giving what I consider a really different and era-appropriate shade (well both those colors were on the cars in '64 and '65 so era appropriate is an understatement). Then you look at the pictures of klawrence's car in the what I believe to be GT40 Midnight Blue metallic and that looks quite alright (amazing) as well. I'm going white painted stripes, gumballs, and all, hence the white wheels. I always found white wheels to be out of the ordinary (especially by today's black on black on black rims with black emblems standard) and will make things stand out - on my Expedition they would look out of place, but are right at home on the Daytona! I looked into whiting the pipes as well but any ceramic coating will yellow, so either polished pipes as is or VHT white and touch it up from time to time.

I just have to post this here...one of my favorite pictures of the Coupe I've ever seen (Guardsman Blue), what an absolutely stunning design. I'm going to add a front intake air splitter as well like the originals, just have to see the clearance first with the hood going up:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188991&d=1692233892

[rhk118]

Thanks Shakey. Been following your build, those wheels are sweet. And the engine is :cool:. Like the shiny front end. Also appreciate the heads up on the transmission mounts, I'm anticipating the need to customize things a bit for the mount and hoping the driveshaft length is correct. If not, will make it work!

[LateApex]

Thanks Bob. Color-wise it's going to be a blue. Initially was looking at Viking, then saw the Guardsman Metallic on the coupes at the M1 Concourse last year and like the little bit of teal metallic it has in it giving what I consider a really different and era-appropriate shade (well both those colors were on the cars in '64 and '65 so era appropriate is an understatement). Then you look at the pictures of klawrence's car in the what I believe to be GT40 Midnight Blue metallic and that looks quite alright (amazing) as well. I'm going white painted stripes, gumballs, and all, hence the white wheels. I always found white wheels to be out of the ordinary (especially by today's black on black on black rims with black emblems standard) and will make things stand out. I looked into the pipes as well but any ceramic coating will yellow, so either polished pipes as is or VHT white and touch it up from time to time.

I just have to post this here...one of my favorite pictures of the Coupe I've ever seen (Guardsman Blue), what an absolutely stunning design. I'm going to add a front intake air splitter as well like the originals, just have to see the clearance first with the hood going up:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188991&d=1692233892

I thought so :-) As you know, I went the Viking Blue route with my coupe, which is also Ford paint code Q (Brittany Blue), which has a long heritage and several revisions over the years, first on the '64 Thunderbird if I recall, and then on the Mustangs. Of course the paint itself has changed with new technology (e.g.: base / clear coat), but the Blue is great and I catch smiles all the time :-) I see what you are angling for with the light-colored powder coat on the wheels - that will look great IMO :-)

I am starting to run the car pretty hard in the canyons here in CO. Having way too much fun. Need to clean it up a bit before the Shelby American Collection Annual show / picnic. Very much looking forward to talking with Peter Brock at that event.

p.s. Still holding off on stripes and roundels / numbers.

Speedy recovery wishes to you!!

[LateApex]

I was out at High Plains Raceway this past weekend. I had done open track days on my Ducati there a couple of years ago and really like the track. I did not take the Coupe there this time. You walk around the paddock and almost all the cars show the bump and grind of track days. I will at some point get this car on the track, but for now, with almost 2K miles on the odometer, am still breaking in my build :-) It is as fast as snakes tho ... ;-)

[rhk118]

Transmission Tunnel to Dash

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189338&d=1692990643

I have been giving a lot of thought to the transmission tunnel to dash section to the cockpit. Most have used a triangular-type piece extending from the dash down to where it meets the transmission tunnel (Upper part of the orange tape is the “plumb” line from my dash). Given that I’m using an electronic parking brake and electronic steering, I have 2 extra “electronic brains” (thanks to JohnG for that term:D) to hide behind my dash, and as a result more switches, plus will lose some space behind the driver’s side dash for the electric steering motor.

So to give a little more space experimented with adding a bigger panel to the front of the transmission tunnel to meet the dash. Mocked this up with some cardboard (thanks USPS!) and really liked the look.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189339&d=1692990643
(NOTE: This is not the final shape in the picture above)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189340&d=1692990643

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189341&d=1692990643
There is a ½ inch lip at the top to attach to the lip under the dash.

Out of sheer luck my nephew was visiting town around the same time and he is an engineering student, conveniently with CAD software on his computer (he is totally into the coupe) so we converted this to a CAD file. Also because I am not going to need a parking brake lever and my shifter location likely won’t match the hole in the FFR provided piece we mocked up a blank transmission cover as well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189342&d=1692990643
Dash to transmission cover piece

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189343&d=1692990667
Transmission cover piece

[rhk118]

Transmission Tunnel to Dash (continued)

Took the files to a shop with a plasma cutter and bingo:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189345&d=1692990667

Borrowed a friend’s bending brake yesterday and here is the preliminary result:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189344&d=1692990667

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189346&d=1692990667

Needs a little tweaking perhaps but overall looks good to me and adds a bit more space than the triangular piece…maybe. Its shallow near the bottom. The look is clean and it won’t interfere with shifting. I also would like to adjust the overlap of the “bat” piece up front so it lines up better (came in ¼ inch short on both sides). Also need to figure out my switches and layout I will be using…I might just have the final piece cut with the switch holes so they are even (this part cost $35 to have cut in 0.063 aluminum for reference).

Finally, I made the transmission cover ¼” wider than stock so there is a little more room for sound deadening and carpet. Is that extra width necessary? I have no idea, but it does affect the front of the transmission tunnel a little. I will be fiddling with the fitment of this a bit as love the concept, but want a clean install and no weird visible overlaps of the aluminum. I think I could have the transmission cover AND this piece cut together so there was no seam between them (My plan is black powdercoat transmission tunnel and dash in line with the originals).

Anyhow this was a little diversion that was a lot of fun with my nephew. He’s into suspension geometry. I can use him! :cool:

[LateApex]

Nicely done!

Remember that you may get some windshield and PS side-window glare off things mounted in this location. This may color your visor design &/or how you may wish to cant "faces" to the driver.

I placed a visor over my gauge panel, but hadn't thought enough about items I placed to the right of the gauge panel, or on the tranny tunnel (like for example a TermX interface or the Alpine deck in the face above the tranny tunnel, which gives me a rear view mirror for that Big-A$$ blind spot on the right rear quarter :-).

It is hard to visualize this on a naked chassis IMO. The roof will provide some shading.

FWIW ...

[jgray]

Hank, It all looks great. From an aesthetics standpoint the “lines” of the piece you’ve added are pleasing to the eye! And from an engineering standpoint it looks “tight”. I like that you are using 0.063; I expect it will really help. Have you figured out the fasteners or however you are putting this together? The use of CAD and plasma cutting is cool. I have Turbo CAD but am not very skilled with it. If I went that path it would add 12 months to my build! Great work!

[rhk118]

Nicely done!

Remember that you may get some windshield and PS side-window glare off things mounted in this location. This may color your visor design &/or how you may wish to cant "faces" to the driver.

I placed a visor over my gauge panel, but hadn't thought enough about items I placed to the right of the gauge panel, or on the tranny tunnel (like for example a TermX interface or the Alpine deck in the face above the tranny tunnel, which gives me a rear view mirror for that Big-A$$ blind spot on the right rear quarter :-).

It is hard to visualize this on a naked chassis IMO. The roof will provide some shading.

FWIW ...

Bob, this is excellent info that I had not considered, so thank you. Not sure I’ve seen a picture of how your terminatorX is mounted but if you have one somewhere would love to see it. Does the screen need to remain connected at all times or is it removable like the Sniper setup? Was hoping I could tinker and dial in the engine ECU as needed then disconnect it.

I’ve been looking for camera systems that have rear view and blind spot cameras. I found 1 mirror that will show 3 camera views but it was discontinued a couple years ago with no like replacement and afraid to buy something discontinued like that. Hoping the rear view cameras with 180 degree view will at least cover my blind spots to some extent.


Hank, It all looks great. From an aesthetics standpoint the “lines” of the piece you’ve added are pleasing to the eye! And from an engineering standpoint it looks “tight”. I like that you are using 0.063; I expect it will really help. Have you figured out the fasteners or however you are putting this together? The use of CAD and plasma cutting is cool. I have Turbo CAD but am not very skilled with it. If I went that path it would add 12 months to my build! Great work!

I only did this because felt like mocking it up and my nephew was here over the summer for vacation. We discussed the car a lot and I just asked if he knew how to do CAD, it took him and me about 6 minutes to get that converted to a CAD file and maybe 10 to measure and input the transmission tunnel piece. The shop that cut them only uses 0.063 aluminum which was really tough for me to bend but will give really good support of the dash in the central “floppy” area there.

The overlaps of aluminum edge between the transmission tunnel and my piece are very busy. As you know I’m black powder coating my dash and tunnel for the retro look but will use the carpet kit for the sides, might need dome kind of trim to cover that area, or might redesign that piece with longer sides (if I decide to use it in the end, it really doesn’t add much space at all over the “traditional” triangular piece a lot of builds add to that area). Not sure how I will connect it yet but don’t think it will be that tough - nutserts.

[rhk118]

Just a little PSA that gave me a chuckle. Hope you all have a good weekend!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189615&d=1693576902

[LateApex]

Couple of things going on here:

I've canted the TermX mounting bracket with some high density foam. The effect of this is that all reflections (as viewed from my eyes) are directed to the roof and not the windows. The TermX interface can always be removed, but the mounting bracket works pretty well, and is pretty fixed once you drill through carpet, ..., etc., to moun t on the tranny tunnel. I looked for other places to mount this, but to be honest, did not think this through as much as I should have

This is admittedly a hack, but it works. I'll play with this a bit this Winter. The other bit to note is the reflection coming off the Alpine head unit. I had designed a visor like the one over my dash panel, but didn't like the overall geometry. So that is yet another tweak planned for this Winter

189621

The "Ball' that you see is a Steelie. I mount a cell phone on this and have this product in 4 different cars.

The Alpine touch screen needs a little cleaning - Hah!

[jgray]

Just a little PSA that gave me a chuckle. Hope you all have a good weekend!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189615&d=1693576902

Thanks Hank! Given that you are and MD I take this quite seriously. I have a lot of Aluminum shavings in my garage right now, and have many double IPAs in the fridge encased in aluminum cans - but being British I do prefer to pour my beer in a glass. God save the Queen, I think I will survive!

[rhk118]

Couple of things going on here:

I've canted the TermX mounting bracket with some high density foam. The effect of this is that all reflections (as viewed from my eyes) are directed to the roof and not the windows. The TermX interface can always be removed, but the mounting bracket works pretty well, and is pretty fixed once you drill through carpet, ..., etc., to moun t on the tranny tunnel. I looked for other places to mount this, but to be honest, did not think this through as much as I should have

This is admittedly a hack, but it works. I'll play with this a bit this Winter. The other bit to note is the reflection coming off the Alpine head unit. I had designed a visor like the one over my dash panel, but didn't like the overall geometry. So that is yet another tweak planned for this Winter

The "Ball' that you see is a Steelie. I mount a cell phone on this and have this product in 4 different cars.

The Alpine touch screen needs a little cleaning - Hah!

Thanks for the picture Bob, very helpful. All my engine parts went straight to the builder so I haven't seen that screen yet for the TermX. Seems like something I can hide behind the dash if connected and pull it out to tinker. Ideally I can build a glove box like Paul did for his and put it in there, just know my metalworking and riveting skills pale in comparison to his and others on here. I think I just need to bite the bullet and do it, and perhaps the oval access panels that fit over the gas tank in the trunk area are the perfect size and shape for a glovebox door.

Never seen a Steelie mount before, nice subtle mount that isn't a big plastic bracket. I love the Alpine in yours but want the retro look. Would like some of the tech though and currently researching a new line of rearview mirrors that have the backup cam mirror AND Apple CarPlay built in. I don't need the music, but some driving directions on the mirror might help.


Thanks Hank! Given that you are and MD I take this quite seriously. I have a lot of Aluminum shavings in my garage right now, and have many double IPAs in the fridge encased in aluminum cans - but being British I do prefer to pour my beer in a glass. God save the Queen, I think I will survive!

Haha, I'm sure I've had my fair share of Al-you-min-EEE-um (have to acknowledge the proper pronunciation there ;) ) with a sandwich and beer on the bench while die-grinding away at aluminum panels...everything in moderation as they say! I try to stay on top of it all vacuuming after every build session, but its still everywhere...

Cheers fellas, have a good weekend!

[LateApex]

If I may, there is a lot of info that the TermX interface provides, at a glance. Maybe during your break in period, you figure out how to use that info, or whenever you modify any of the settings. And then you retire that interface (or hide it in a glove box). After 2K miles I am still using and still tweaking the ECU, trying to get the fuel mix right mostly

A funny anecdote: I am having the VIN plate affixed in the last of my state patrol office visits, and the Master Sergeant of the State Patrol is looking over the car. He spots the "TerminatorX" interface, and asks "What is that?" One could imagine a number of things that were going through his mind at that point :-)

[rhk118]

If I may, there is a lot of info that the TermX interface provides, at a glance. Maybe during your break in period, you figure out how to use that info, or whenever you modify any of the settings. And then you retire that interface (or hide it in a glove box). After 2K miles I am still using and still tweaking the ECU, trying to get the fuel mix right mostly

A funny anecdote: I am having the VIN plate affixed in the last of my state patrol office visits, and the Master Sergeant of the State Patrol is looking over the car. He spots the "TerminatorX" interface, and asks "What is that?" One could imagine a number of things that were going through his mind at that point :-)

Once again very useful info. You had mentioned to me you were still tweaking settings, but seems I will need it available for a while in a visible area. So will come up with some way of mounting it where I can see it, but be able to hide it. Maybe a steel plate behind one of the dash panels and will put some magnets on the screen panel...hmmm...

Did you answer:
A) Fuzz Buster
B) Flux Capacitor
C) Coal blower settings???
D) :rolleyes:

[460.465USMC]

Hello Hank. Just finished reading your build thread start to present. Thanks for documenting with pictures, and explaining the "why" behind your decisions. Very helpful. I noted some good tips. If you hadn't admitted to being a first timer, I would be none the wiser.

One dumb question I have is how did you get your chassis up onto your four-post lift? I've read they weigh ~650 lbs. Did you have some muscle on standby, or use a more more crafty idea? I ordered some bridge jacks for my four-post (Bendpak); looks like yours have been working well since Day 1 of your build, and I would like to do the same.

P.S. What a great name you have! As a kid, our family adopted an older gentleman (born in 1900) as our grandfather, he was also named Hank. Such a zest for life: up early most summer mornings hooking up his 12 foot aluminum boat to his Datsun pickup to go fishing. He was in his 80s at the time! I didn't even entertain the thought of beating him at cribbage. He was sharp as a tack well into his 90s, and he made it past the century mark. It's not a name I hear often. Brings back great memories.

[rhk118]

Hello Hank. Just finished reading your build thread start to present. Thanks for documenting with pictures, and explaining the "why" behind your decisions. Very helpful. I noted some good tips. If you hadn't admitted to being a first timer, I would be none the wiser.

One dumb question I have is how did you get your chassis up onto your four-post lift? I've read they weigh ~650 lbs. Did you have some muscle on standby, or use a more more crafty idea? I ordered some bridge jacks for my four-post (Bendpak); looks like yours have been working well since Day 1 of your build, and I would like to do the same.

P.S. What a great name you have! As a kid, our family adopted an older gentleman (born in 1900) as our grandfather, he was also named Hank. Such a zest for life: up early most summer mornings hooking up his 12 foot aluminum boat to his Datsun pickup to go fishing. He was in his 80s at the time! I didn't even entertain the thought of beating him at cribbage. He was sharp as a tack well into his 90s, and he made it past the century mark. It's not a name I hear often. Brings back great memories.


Thanks for the kind words. Other than installing some crazy car stereos in my youth I’ve never worked on cars in any mechanical sense. I have learned a lot and it's certainly easier to learn how to do this putting new parts together than trying to restore an older car. It's great, absolutely love it and even though every step of the build has some caveats and something needs to be tweaked, adjusted, fit differently I'm thankful for Factory Five for making this all possible. My main concern is I don't know what I don't know and that makes the process very slow. My neck issue actually made me take a step back and relax about it. Only work on it when I have time and feel like it, not going to force anything, it's not a race.

I have had a lot of help from a lot of great people on here and around me. I find this build attracts a lot of interest among car people who’ve come over to see it (JohnG came from California to the East Coast and made a trip out of his way here to see it as well, and we are now building in parallel), invariably someone will tell me about someone they know that does X, Y or Z. I need some welding done and already have 3 offers for help with that just through folks asking me how its going. When Factory Five talks about the community around the build it is absolutely real. Then as I was building found a Cobra build and a Coupe build both happening within 5 miles of my house. Lots of looking, studying photos, checking out the cars at shows, a few visits to Factory Five, and just talking. Seeing Paul (edwardb) and Scott's (namrups) builds more recently has helped me a lot. I love this community. After going to Factory Five’s open house now have the itch for a 289 Cobra kit. But need to finish this one first, SO much to do.

Answer to your question: Muscle is the answer for me here. Hood easily comes off, set that aside. Then 4 guys, a 4x6 through the back wheel well and a 2x4 under the front frame, 1 guy on each corner like carrying Cleopatra and set it down directly on the lift (no didn't ask my wife to get in first :rolleyes:). You can see the 2x6 in the back in the pictures. I then jacked up the front then back using a floor jack between the rails and got the bridge jacks under on my own.

Short of 4 guys the cart that Stewart Transport has would roll up onto my lift on the ramps….then jack it up front and back and remove the cart I think would work. Looking at threads on here it seems Stewart has fit these things into some very tight spaces!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189690&d=1693829454

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189691&d=1693829454

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189688&d=1693829454

Using the lift has worked really well for me. The car is now up on the 5” Jack extensions which gives some extra room to work. And when I’m not working on it, up in the air it goes and instant storage. Once the engine is in I will need to strap it to the lift front and back so it doesn't get tippy, but up to this point with the diff and suspension all in it is very stable.

I live in New England, and as you can probably see the snow shoes in the background in some of my pictures the lift was originally purchased for car storage, not to build the FFR (but works great on that). For reference the lift is a Forward Lift EFP8 and got that because there is a local garage supply company that sells and will service them and the price was the same as a year of car storage around here. Bendpack lifts are definitely better having seen some but this absolutely does the job (and the local guy won’t service Bendpack, decision made). The bridge jacks for these lifts can be very expensive ($1200+ each), but found home depot randomly had bridge jacks with a different company name but the same part number as Forward Lift’s part number for $600. Thought it too good to be true so ordered one just to see what arrived and it was the exact part I needed. Quickly ordered the second. Needless to say Home Depot quickly removed them from their website...I suspect someone had the price wrong there. I bought the bridge jacks when I bought the kit. They are very helpful to take summer tires off for winters on my other cars.

I appreciate your Hank story. It’s a great name because there aren’t many of us around, so I know when someone is addressing me and I’ve never met another (many Henrys though). I’ve found it also lends itself to some great nicknames: Hammerin’ Hank, Hank Williams, Hank the Tank, Hanky Panky, Mr. Hankey for you Southpark fans….all good in my book! I have 3 daughters, so no Hanks (not sure my wife would have appreciated me pulling a George Foreman and naming them all George :D )

Once again, too long of a reply to a simple question!

[Namrups]

Thanks for the call out Hank! Glad my build was an inspiration. Road trip out to see you with the coupe next year may be in the works!

[rhk118]

Thanks for the call out Hank! Glad my build was an inspiration. Road trip out to see you with the coupe next year may be in the works!

100% Scott! Not sure when we're heading back to the Albany area but will let you know when we do - I trimmed my radiator tunnel aluminum back to against those brackets this weekend so won't have the hinge issue...thanks for the tip!

[460.465USMC]

Thanks for the pictures, Hank. Very helpful. So cool you have a couple builds going on nearby.

That would be great if it could be rolled onto the lift using the Stewart cart. Worse case, I'll find some muscle--beer in exchange for a few minutes of lifting might be just the trick. :p

(We have four sons and a daughter. Unfortunately, Hank never made it to the top of my wife's list).

[rhk118]

Do the perfect seats exist? (basically me just talking out loud, not much useful here)

Hoping for input here guys...

I want to make sure that the ergonomics of my seating position are comfortable to me before getting the interior buttoned up only to find that I don’t like the pedal or seat position. I’m 5’11” and currently 240# and my entire life have been called husky (who doesn’t like a charismatic dog with blue eyes?!). When I ordered my kit there was a backorder on Corbeau seats for >6 months so I ordered the fixed back Evolution X seats from Corbeau and it took 6 months for them to arrive. As I will be tracking this car from time to time I want a sport seat that has full back support and head protection in the back, so low-backs are out. The Corbeaus are quite nice, in my view match the car, and I fit in them well...but do not think they will work for me.

My issue, as others have pointed out is you are limited by how far back they will sit on the floor by the seatbelt tabs. The tabs are 17” apart. When I put them in the car as far back as they will go the seating position is OK with legs relative to pedals (still would like the pedals further away, but pedal position isn’t set yet – going to set them out as far as possible to engage clutch and brakes without hitting the firewall). However the steering wheel is quite literally in my lap. I can’t turn the thing freely because my arms are too close. I have the Russ Thompson turn signal and the NRG quick release making the wheel a bit closer. I was able to shorten the RT signal adapter by ½ inch without interfering with the 2-bolt mounting on the tube.

If I lean back and angle the Corbeau seat back hinging off the floor (like I used to get yelled at for doing in elementary school) so the back is against the back of the cockpit, it is perfect distance arms to steering wheel, but now the seat base is too angled. The fixed-back Corbeau just won’t get into that orientation enough for me (needs to tip back at 25-30 degrees by my estimation). I’m afraid for me they are the wrong seats.

The low back vinyl kit seats fit PERFECTLY. They fit between the tabs and slide all the way back to the back of the cockpit, are angled well, and the seating position to me is great for legs and arms. My issue again is they are lowbacks and I just worry about whiplash and hitting head on something behind me, even if I install some type of headrest on the rollbars behind. Maybe I wear a HANS device when racing. At the Factory Five open house I sat in the blue coupe with the Kirkey lowbacks. I fit pretty well in them and they are also perfectly situated for arm and leg length. The high-back Kirkeys in the R-coupe they have there I do not fit in the seat, super uncomfortable, non-starter. I also got to sit in Scotts car and he is using the Corbeau Evolution X’s with the Breeze angled floor bracket – better but felt not quite far enough for my arms to the steering wheel.

So I’ve been fiddling around – I have the 1” Corbeau Mounts. Noticed the 2” Corbeau mounts are a lot narrower and slightly slanted so ordered a set to try. They fit between the tabs nicely and can get the seat back a little farther, but the extra height has the seat bolsters and headrest interfering with the roll cage preventing them basically from fitting any further back. I also bought the Breeze angled seat mounts for the roadster like Scott (namrups) used and these may be OK.

In the meantime I’ve been looking at a lot of seats. Corbeau A4s are reclining, narrow, and I suspect will angle back enough to get them to the back of the cockpit. Sparco R100s are similar. There are some places that make low back roadster seats with a headrest. Then found some GT40 seats that are very narrow, by measurement will fit between the tabs, have a 120 degree angle so will definitely sit at the back of the cockpit, but after mocking them up in cardboard, the front of the seat is too wide….

Corbeau Evolution X vs Kit low back – Low back fit is perfect. See how far the Corbeau back is from the rear of the cabin, it needs to tilt back or recline for me. Where its sitting in this picture isn’t as far back as it goes, but hopefully you get the idea.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189894&d=1694256988

Corbeau 1” Seat mount relative to the tabs:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189891&d=1694256964

Corbeau 2” Seat mounts – these are very narrow, slightly slanted back. With the Evolution X it doesn’t really get the seat farther back:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189892&d=1694256964

Breeze Angled seat mounts. Will need to mount the Corbeau seat mount on top of this. They seem to help, but not quite enough for me:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189889&d=1694256964
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189890&d=1694256964

GT40 seat mockup. The angle and footprint dimensions are accurate. Hope you like my fancy plaid seat pattern :D . Ultimately the front of the base will be too wide for the coupe.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189893&d=1694256964

In any event I am open to any and all suggestions for high-back seats (or modified / “high back” roadster-style seats) that will fit all the way back in the cockpit.

To Be Continued….

[Namrups]

Have you thought about moving the seatbelt tabs? I thought about that but I had already installed the aluminum panels and didn't want to rip it all out again.

[rhk118]

Have you thought about moving the seatbelt tabs? I thought about that but I had already installed the aluminum panels and didn't want to rip it all out again.

Yes I have Scott. They are the culprits in all of this for sure! I should have put your seat back a bit when sitting in yours, but didn't want to mess up your seating position. I honestly think that I will go the same way you did with the Breeze angle mounts.

[Namrups]

We all know that these cars are not your standard vehicles that are designed for creature comfort. They are street legal race cars. The cabins are tight, you sit at an angle and there is very little arm and leg room. During your build when your sitting there you can see and feel all of these quarks. They seem like major issues. On the plus side, that all goes away when you get to drive it down the road.

[burchfieldb]

One other option may be the Sparco Grid Q's. I am 6' 195 lbs and have ample room in mine. I did modify the fiberglass body in order to get them to slide all the way back and have the base tilted up at an angle and the seat sits pretty square to the dash.

189929
189930
189931
189932
189933

[LateApex]

I am not piping in at the right time or spot I suspect - but it is a good time to think about head protection in general. We have this great chassis around us, but that roll bar (or space frame) around us is a real hazard to think about in the event we we are may be involved in some sort of collision. Without a helmet, a minor accident may be more than minor The high-back seats are great, but at a basic level, what are we doing doing to protect ourselves from the simplest of accidents?

FWIW

[rhk118]

It is the side bar up top that really worries me. Will definitely add padding to that like others have. High back seat should get the rest. Or just helmet everywhere (I kid, I kid)...

[rhk118]

Dash / Tunnel

Been slowly working on the dash layout here and there when I have time:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190444&d=1695731307

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190445&d=1695731307

Trimmed the stock FFR gauge visor sides and angled them out 45 degrees so they don't interfere with AC vent placement:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190446&d=1695731307

Switch plate layout: Horn and Start buttons will go here as well as 7 toggle switches. I am using old-style Lucas buttons for the horn and start buttons. Switches will be toggles coming out of a Quick Car 6-switch setup (thanks to GT_Rich for this idea):
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190447&d=1695731307

Put my daughter's "Cricut" vinyl sticker printer to use and made vent/switch hole stickers to work on placement:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190448&d=1695731307

These will go in the FFR holes in the dash above the switchboard, the ignition hole for the key will be occupied by the Wildwood electric parking brake switch.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190449&d=1695731338

This is a gadget I fabricated which is a modified old-style Lucas button that actuates a Digital Guard Dog ignition switch seen underneath, so the entire panel will be "old school" but modern tech underneath, just the Lucas button will show:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190450&d=1695731338

[edwardb]

The old school button for the Digital Guard Dawg keyless starter is an interesting touch. Hopefully you have the DGD indicator light somewhere where you can see it. The system is very sequence dependent and if you don't have the light it's going to be challenging knowing where you're at. Lets you know when it's on or off (armed) and flashes when it's ready to start. I had a no start situation last month (no lights...) which turned out to be as simple as the battery in the remote. But in the heat of battle didn't pick right up on that since I had changed the batteries over the winter.

[rhk118]

The old school button for the Digital Guard Dawg keyless starter is an interesting touch. Hopefully you have the DGD indicator light somewhere where you can see it. The system is very sequence dependent and if you don't have the light it's going to be challenging knowing where you're at. Lets you know when it's on or off (armed) and flashes when it's ready to start. I had a no start situation last month (no lights...) which turned out to be as simple as the battery in the remote. But in the heat of battle didn't pick right up on that since I had changed the batteries over the winter.

Thanks Paul. The Lucas button pushes the digital guard dog with a 3/8 inch clear acrylic bar. I also have a 1/8" clear acrylic bar that I will drill out the center of the button and inset then polish so the light should be visible that way via a "fiberoptic effect" (how bright is the question, I guess I could get some 1/8" fiberoptic cable and run that down over the light as well). If that doesn't work or isn't bright enough then I will need to figure out which wires to tap for a separate LED light to be mounted on the dash. I've thought of this and you've answered a question I had about it but was going to "wait and see" so haven't drilled the button out just yet.

[edwardb]

Thanks Paul. The Lucas button pushes the digital guard dog with a 3/8 inch clear acrylic bar. I also have a 1/8" clear acrylic bar that I will drill out the center of the button and inset then polish so the light should be visible that way via a "fiberoptic effect" (how bright is the question, I guess I could get some 1/8" fiberoptic cable and run that down over the light as well). If that doesn't work or isn't bright enough then I will need to figure out which wires to tap for a separate LED light to be mounted on the dash. I've thought of this and you've answered a question I had about it but was going to "wait and see" so haven't drilled the button out just yet.

Sounds like you have it covered. :o

[rhk118]

Sounds like you have it covered. :o

If there was a "fingers crossed" emoji I would use that right now!

[rhk118]

Got my AC vent holes drilled. Using the 2.5 inch vinyl stickers made adjusting placement easy, then served as guides to drill the holes. Used a Milwaukee 2.5 inch hole cutter which worked great, just used light pressure and let the hole cutter do the work. I don't think I need to buy tinsel for my Christmas tree this year after cutting these holes, going to sweep up the aluminum shavings from doing this and sprinkle them over the tree :rolleyes: .

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190891&d=1696676531

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190892&d=1696676531

Couple of other updates and possible changes to my build. I was going to use electric power steering, and now that the driver's footbox has the steering, pedal unit, brake lines, and now dash installed it is going to be a very complicated thing to get this to fit where I thought it would fit (it will fit, but I think it will partially hang out from under the dash and that's not OK for me). This doesn't even include the fusebox or vent duct tubing back there yet. An alternative mounting position is in front of the footbox in the engine compartment, but will need engine mounted first to see what space there is to work with. Fortunately my engine isn't built yet so still easy enough to cut bait and go with traditional power steering. The other good thing with the EPAS unit company has steering shaft adapters for a Polaris RZR Side by Side which is what I use to plow with in winter and mine doesn't have power steering, so if it doesn't go in the coupe, I will really appreciate it in the Polaris.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190893&d=1696676531

Second development is the seats. I can't get the Corbeau Evolution X's far back enough into the cockpit to be in a comfortable driving position for me. The steering wheel is quite literally in my lap and I can't turn more than 80 degrees or so before I'd have to hand-over-hand turn. Not good enough for a car that will see track time. I've tried the 1 inch and narrower 2 inch Corbeau seat mounts. I've also tried adding the Breeze angled seat mount adapter. I can get them far back enough for my legs to be comfortable. Steering wheel still way too close. I was able to shorten the Russ Thompson Steering column about half an inch as well to get setting out a bit and still elbows aren't even close to 90 degrees. The Evolution X's fit me well though, I do like them.

Folks at Corbeau are amazing and easy to work with. I wish more companies had customer service like they do. I felt that if I could just recline the seat back slightly then my arms would be far enough back and talked to Corbeau. They sent me a warranty-returned reclining RRX seat that they had on hand with a very similar footprint to the Evolution X to test fit and it still didn't get back far enough. Interestingly the lever to recline the seat did not interfere with fitment without the cover on the lever. They also mentioned that they know Corbeau A4s will fit and recline in the Daytona coupe (I'd just have to buy them new, try them and either keep or return). The RRX bolster was too tight for my legs, I think the A4s will have the same problem looking at the seat base.

I put in the basic vinyl Cobra kit seats in there and man they are perfect for me - Can get them back to the wall and there I'm completely comfortable, add the Breeze reclining mount and they're just a little better....hmmm....in any event this is still in process and the real issue is Goldilocks behind the keyboard here just needs to lose a few pounds and I'd probably be just fine :rolleyes: ...have a good weekend all.

[rhk118]

She's a Roller! Finally got around to a very basic alignment (eyeballs and measurements from the Manual) and the "LEGO" wheels are on. For the first time in 1.5 years it is sitting on its own, really cool to see it like this. Engine is also all tuned and done. Next phase will be putting the drivetrain together and mocking it up. Then wiring.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191537&d=1698191531

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191538&d=1698191531

This angle just looked cool, so here you go:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191539&d=1698191531

Rear tire:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191540&d=1698191531

Swaybar attachment:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191541&d=1698191531

Want to point out the rear swaybar attachment. I've heard 1 of 2 things about the swaybar in the back of these and appreciate any feedback anyone has...even if you just drop a good dad joke I can use on my kids I'll take it ;) .

The first is that the car drives fine with them on front and rear. The second is that the swaybars if used front and back will produce oversteer, and in some cases random snap oversteer (which is not something I would appreciate). Therefore run slightly stiffer springs out back and remove the rear swaybar, but keep the front swaybar. I've heard enough of the folks who track their cars on here say it that I will likely just take off the rear bar for the track. But some part of my OCD is thinking leave it on because 1) it was designed this way and likely does help, 2) parts are good, and 3) it looks cool. When building I bought a longer rod-end than came with the kit so I could link to the last hole on the thing, giving it more flexibility and perhaps SOME swaybar effect but not enough to produce snap oversteer (or so thinks my man-brain). The kit rod ends would not reach the last hole on my bar hence the longer one. Geometry doesn't look great to me with the angle it creates relative to the bar end but when I put the car down it seems OK. With the car up in the air (all wheels in the air), I jacked up 1 tire in the back.The shock does its thing and compresses but then the car starts jacking up and I'm seeing NO rotation of the swaybar affecting the other side. The front end does. Shock works, then there is some rotation of the bar and the other side moves as well slightly in the front. With compression in the back, shock compresses then just comes to a hard stop in the back (shock only 1/3-1/2 compressed, not at its stop)....just wondering if the thing is too stiff and the shock is compressing but then the bar compliance is way too stiff and boom, oversteer? I moved mine to the inner holes in back and still that rear swaybar isn't moving. Obviously this is static by just jacking up 1 wheel and seeing what happens to the other side....nowhere the forces the rear end would see on a track....but interesting. Appreciate anyone's comments or insights here, just random ponderings that are tucked in the back of my head for now, but onward. Today was a really good day, on tires on the ground is a milestone for sure. Love how squat and wide these are!

Oh 1.5 inch spacers all around. Will get the final wheel spacing set once the body is on.

[JimStone]

Looks great! Congratulations on the milestone

[Namrups]

Looking good Hank! I have both front and rear swaybars. Have not seen an issue with street driving. Have not tracked the car yet.

[LateApex]

My simpleton understanding is that if the rear end is sliding, add a sway bar to the front, and visa versa. I only have a sway bar in the front. That the weight distribution is ~ 45/55, front/rear maybe supports this. What we all could use is a nice skid pad:-) I have not lost traction at either end yet, which i guess speaks more to how I am babying the car so far ;-)

Nice looking work Hank!

Well ... "Babying" is maybe not the best description - Hah! I might suggest opting for the front bar and deciding if the rear bar is needed. I say this as the ride is quite stiff anyway. Sway bars += stiffness.

[Dave Tabor]

What we all could use is a nice skid pad:-) I have not lost traction at either end yet, which i guess speaks more to how I am babying the car so far ;-)



Did someone say skidpad?

https://youtu.be/5w-rAc6tIb4?si=67KaSkPIZO6Awj2o

Do I need more rear swaybar (cowbell)?

Dave
Gen III#17

[LateApex]

Did someone say skidpad?

https://youtu.be/5w-rAc6tIb4?si=67KaSkPIZO6Awj2o

Do I need more rear swaybar (cowbell)?

Dave
Gen III#17

Haha! You are having way to much fun!!

[rhk118]

Dave, love it! I'm clearly overthinking this process because the build is taking me so long and just want to be out there doing what you're doing. Definitely don't need any swaybar there. The other thing is these are so low and the rear end doesn't have a lot of movement, swaybar likely (clearly from your video) isn't necessary.

[Dave Tabor]

Dave, love it! I'm clearly overthinking this process because the build is taking me so long and just want to be out there doing what you're doing. Definitely don't need any swaybar there. The other thing is these are so low and the rear end doesn't have a lot of movement, swaybar likely (clearly from your video) isn't necessary.

That skidpad stuff was with no rear swaybar. That said, I was TRYING to slide the back end.

I did have the rear swaybar hooked up for quite a while previously and I look at it as a tuning aid, helping to balance out the effect of springs, tires, driving style, etc.

When I first got the car on the track it was far from where it is now, with tire, spring, swaybar, and aero changes made since the first time. I'd say 'embrace the journey', drive it and keep fiddling with it.

Dave
Gen III #17

[rhk118]

Electric Steering Motor Mounted

Well, turns out the EPAS unit fits nicely behind the dash so posting here for anyone considering tackling this. Still takes up quite a bit of real estate behind the dash. Basically cut off the steering mount, mounted the EPAS to it with a spacer block and U-bolt, and replaced about 3/4" higher than the stock location. I had a close friend do this work for me, I have no welding experience. As you can see, I am going to have to re-imagine how the Russ Thompson turn signal and steering wheel mount will work with this setup. This obviously has resulted in a lot more work than just using a power rack but my hope is - less maintenance, and ability to adjust my power steering assist from 0 to full assist (this unit has a rheostat to adjust amount of steering assist).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=193367&d=1702827812

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=193368&d=1702827812

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=193369&d=1702827812

Engine delivered from the builder getting ready to paint the block:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=193366&d=1702827812

Hope you all have a great holiday, next step is get the engine/T-56 together, and test fit to check the driveshaft length.

[jgray]

Hi Hank,

Great job with the electric power steering; it looks like a very neat installation! The cutting and welding looks beautiful - much better than my flux core welding efforts! To me, welding is an art form! Painting too. And I am at the paint-by-number stages with both but enjoy both tremendously.
Your engine looks great. I too am starting to focus on my engine and expecting to have some cutting and welding to do following Shakey's helpful posts. Happy holidays! John

[rhk118]

Hi Hank,

Great job with the electric power steering; it looks like a very neat installation! The cutting and welding looks beautiful - much better than my flux core welding efforts! To me, welding is an art form! Painting too. And I am at the paint-by-number stages with both but enjoy both tremendously.
Your engine looks great. I too am starting to focus on my engine and expecting to have some cutting and welding to do following Shakey's helpful posts. Happy holidays! John

Thanks John! Hope yours is going well and I’ve been very impressed that you grabbed the bull by the horns and are learning welding. Obviously I can’t take any credit for the welding, just got to passively watch (cheerleader if you will), and my friend has a LOT of experience welding, as you can see. Can’t take credit for the engine either, just found the motor and pulled it apart and got the block cleaned up then an engine builder took over . However I was involved in the entire process and learned a ton. This is the first real mechanical, real car thing I’ve done in my life other than installing some car stereos and may be a brake job on my wife’s Miata a few years back.

I mean to say all of this in that if anyone is reading and considering whether or not they can tackle a project like this, sounds cliche but if I can do it, anyone can do it. The community is so helpful, and if you need local help there are plenty of car guys who get excited just to be around it!

As you can see with the electric steering I lose any “collapsibility” of the steering column in an accident between the steering wheel and the EPAS unit. Not sure the original setup had much of that either between the wheel and the brace for the steering shaft. There will still be some sliding D shaft installed between the EPAS unit and the steering rack so there is some safety margin if ever an accident and the foot box bends. I also figure that the aluminum splines on the factory five steering wheel will bend a bit without affecting human arms, or just do the open wheel thing if an accident and let go/hold onto the shoulder straps as hard as possible. Maybe a bit heavy of a topic after Xmas but certainly my thought on the path I’m taking with the build. The EPAS really surprised me in terms of how well it fits in there.

The engine is also at my buddies shop and he will help get it taped up for painting, then we will mate it the T-56 and test fit in the chassis. Sounds like the driveshaft from FFR won’t fit with a T-56 and a 302 block, and maybe it will. If not then will measure for a custom driveshaft and get one built if necessary. So my car is sitting in his shop. This part is something early on I decided I needed real help with and it’s been fun to work on it there with him. Once the engine has been test fitted then back she comes for wiring while remainder of panels get powder coated. Hoping by summer next year will be fitting the body.

Happy Holidays and New Year all!

[jgray]

Hi Hank

How solidly the EPA unit goes in is impressive. It makes me believe it will work well because it is so solidly installed; electric motors produce a lot of torque so having it so solidly mounted would seem important.

I too have help with my engine and, like you would not think to tackle this part of the build without help. The cost of mistakes is way too high. But I am going to be trying to figure out and even mockup the whole back of the engine with the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate and transmission. I am thinking of doing this so that I know I have all the necessary hardware (bolts, dowels) when my buddy comes over. I know you got a lot of stuff from Mike Forte like I have. Have you bought additional hardware. I was watching YouTubes last night and see there are bolts for the flywheel to the crank, which I have. And then there are bolts to attach pressure plate, bolts to attach transmission to bell housing, bolts to attach the bell housing to motor. I don’t remember seeing all these in what Mike sent.

I don’t have a driveshaft and will need to get one made. I was looking at diagrams to understand the 2 degree angle thing that I have heard about. I now understand it, but making it happen and measuring is another thing!

I am also going to put the motor mounts on the engine - not sure if I have these. I can see spending a lot on ARP stuff!

[rhk118]

Hi Hank

How solidly the EPA unit goes in is impressive. It makes me believe it will work well because it is so solidly installed; electric motors produce a lot of torque so having it so solidly mounted would seem important.

I too have help with my engine and, like you would not think to tackle this part of the build without help. The cost of mistakes is way too high. But I am going to be trying to figure out and even mockup the whole back of the engine with the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate and transmission. I am thinking of doing this so that I know I have all the necessary hardware (bolts, dowels) when my buddy comes over. I know you got a lot of stuff from Mike Forte like I have. Have you bought additional hardware. I was watching YouTubes last night and see there are bolts for the flywheel to the crank, which I have. And then there are bolts to attach pressure plate, bolts to attach transmission to bell housing, bolts to attach the bell housing to motor. I don’t remember seeing all these in what Mike sent.

I don’t have a driveshaft and will need to get one made. I was looking at diagrams to understand the 2 degree angle thing that I have heard about. I now understand it, but making it happen and measuring is another thing!

I am also going to put the motor mounts on the engine - not sure if I have these. I can see spending a lot on ARP stuff!

I do know my engine mounts were in a big Energy Suspension Box!

[jgray]

Yeah, I’m going to take that box out and look at it. I expect there is hardware for the mount to the frame but not for the mount to the engine.

[rhk118]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=193881&d=1704076771

Happy New Year All! Photo of one of the original Coupes at Daytona (or THE original coupe at Daytona). I find it interesting that it has NO mirrors....no looking back, just forward to building in the new year! Haha! Ahhh OK, my cheesy sense of humor won't be changing anytime soon. Thanks for putting up with me. :p

[jgray]

Happy New Year Hank and everyone else!

Great picture!

This year should be a lot of fun with our builds going on!

[rhk118]

EPAS Installed with Russ Thompson Turn Signal:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194136&d=1704485135

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194137&d=1704485135

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194135&d=1704485135

Did some tinkering New Years Day on an air splitter, I think I can direct some air up toward the radiator and add a little "English" (apologies jgray) to the uprights to direct air a bit over and out toward the wheel wells. Considering adding a "floor" to the tunnel as well, but still chewing on this. It will fit, and I have to say to all those saying don't think of the body as a 'symmetric' thing, I totally get it! Once done this will be put in CAD.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194133&d=1704484976

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194134&d=1704484976

The originals had more of a vertically oriented spoiler in there with left and right collectors for front brake ducts, I angled mine a bit more to parallel the sides of the inlet.

[jgray]

EPAS Installed with Russ Thompson Turn Signal:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194136&d=1704485135

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194137&d=1704485135

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194135&d=1704485135

Did some tinkering New Years Day on an air splitter, I think I can direct some air up toward the radiator and add a little "English" (apologies jgray) to the uprights to direct air a bit over and out toward the wheel wells. Considering adding a "floor" to the tunnel as well, but still chewing on this. It will fit, and I have to say to all those saying don't think of the body as a 'symmetric' thing, I totally get it! Once done this will be put in CAD.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194133&d=1704484976

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194134&d=1704484976

Wow - very impressive. The steering wheel/column/power-steering all look great.

And it looks like you are a budding Adrian Newey - next we will see you mocking that up in a simulated wind tunnel! Love it!! And no offense taken!

[rhk118]

Random Things, #1

Just a couple of random things in case it helps anyone planning a build. There is another thread that touched on rearview mirrors. I am planning on using Raydyot side mirrors with convex lenses, spun aluminum. I know vision won’t be great compared to the Brock-style mirrors so will see what the blind spot is like once the body is mounted. I just like the look of them on the car. I suspect they are barely more functional than no mirrors at all. I also like their look over the FFR-supplied bullet-style mirror, but obviously this is just me. I’m trying to match the style of the original cars in my build as much as possible.

Raydyot Style, brushed aluminum:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194685&d=1705761719

FFR Style polished bullet:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194684&d=1705761719


Rearview mirror:
Because I’m concerned about the blind spots in this car, and given my neck injury where I don’t have full right rotation of my head to really check the blindspots (and being strapped in addition to this), I’m going with an always-on rearview camera system. $82 on amazon and there are many with different features. This one has backup camera and Apple Carplay/Android Auto in the event I want to have a small map to assist with navigation and can also show the camera view. Camera supposedly has 180-degree view, and I just need to see cars coming up on me into the blind spot. My concern is this is an interesting car so others might speed up on me to see “what that car up there is” then slow down in the blind spot while “checking the car out”…I just assume this because being a car guy, I’m guilty of this behavior myself, then complete my pass with a thumbs up to the driver. I did look into camera systems using 3 cameras – 2 blind spot cameras and a rearview, but their screens are big, and I don’t want any visible screens….I’ll compromise on the mirror being a screen but that’s it. With the screen off its reflective enough to be used as a regular rearview mirror but obviously not as good as an actual rearview mirror.

Most of these sell with attached rubber straps to wrap around your existing mirror for a quick install, but I found a mount that you can remove the straps and it screws onto the mirror and mounts to the windshield using a normal windshield mount. So if I hate it, can just switch it out for a regular mirror. I’m going to try and mount the camera inside the car on the rear rollbar center and hopefully the glass doesn’t distort the image too much. If so then will need to get mounted out back somewhere.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194680&d=1705760649

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194681&d=1705760649

Rear Lights:
Instead of the factory Five supplied rear backup lights I’m going with glass L488 marker light replicas and replaced the bulbs with red and white LED bulbs from superbrightleds.com which are very bright when tested. The marker lights came from "Finnish" Line Accessories (apparently a Scandinavian company) and come in white, red, and amber (no issues with multiple orders from them, ever). Hopefully these will hold up but I will hold onto the kit rear lights forever just in case they don’t! In order to get the blinker setup to work and also enable push-to-pass functionality with the Russ Thompson steering column I went with a pre-wired setup from 520 Speedworks as relay systems confuse me and this is plug and play (or solder and play). Greg is great to deal with there.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194678&d=1705760649

Driving lights:
My criteria for driving lights was to fill those 5” openings in front as much as possible. More cosmetic than functional for this one. Digging through the forums I found that years ago John Dol discovered 1993 Mustang GT driving lights fit the space nicely and posted about it - thanks John! (CJ Pony Parts has them). They come in clear or ribbed glass. I did order H3 LED replacement bulbs but it seems none will fit that I can find, they are either too tall in the front and crash into the bulb cover in the reflective housing OR their end is too tall out back, these driving lights are very low profile, so I’m going with what I know and going to put Silverstar H3 halogen bulbs in. These will be the only non-led lights on the car.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194679&d=1705760649

Headlights:
Going with Lucas replicas using LED replacement H4 lights, and they have an extra “blinker” light inside that can have an amber bulb or a regular bulb to be used as blinkers or as daytime running lights. I found LEDs that fit in both amber/orange that would work as blinkers, or just white light, and I like the look of the white light so will use those separately switched. These are labeled "P700" instead of the Lucas symbol, but recently found replicas of the Lucas-style online with the actual Lucas branding. P700 is fine with me!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194683&d=1705760681

[rhk118]

Transmission and other Shift

So I will be using a T-56 transmission.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194674&d=1705760612

Bought it in 2/2022 when I ordered the kit as there were global pandemic backlogs on everything and I didn’t know when I would get it. It came in pretty quickly (2 months after ordering the kit). So here we are in January 2024 and I am just getting around to test-mounting it. If you get a Tremec transmission with an adjustable shifter, CHECK IT when you get it. Turns out T-56s are notorious leakers which I didn’t know, I just thought of it as an awesome 6 speed with great feel (which it likely still is).

It has a reverse-lockout solenoid and I think Edwardb (Paul) has the easiest solution to activate this solenoid when the car starts moving so you don’t accidentally put it in reverse. I am trying something different that wasn’t available back then: T56 Magnum wiring harness with bluetooth speedometer and lockout control.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194673&d=1705760612

Basically it plugs into the T-56 harness and has a Bluetooth module that lets you pick the speed at which the lockout solenoid activates, but also has a VSS speed sending unit that will send speed information directly from the transmission sensor to a VSS-compatible speedometer. The Bluetooth unit also lets you calibrate the speed signal so the speedo is showing accurate speed. I’m likely oversimplifying things. I have the Speedhut GPS speed gauge so did a little research and Speedhut will take your GPS speedometer and convert it to a VSS speedometer at no charge other than a $15 return shipping fee. So I did that, wanting “analog” speed in the car and no GPS searching for satellites. Interesting thing I also learned is speedhut no longer makes gauges with this font on it anymore, and because of that no counterclockwise speed gauge is available unless I want a gauge with a different font than all my other gauges, no thanks. But they will use your gauge face you give them. Overall process was very easy and can’t say enough about Speedhut, truly pleasantly surprised.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194676&d=1705760612

Now for the fun part – test fitting the transmission:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194677&d=1705760612

So I learned 2 things from test fitting things in the car. The first is as expected the kit-supplied FFR driveshaft for a 302/T-56 does not fit. About 2.5 inches too short (maybe ½ - 3/4 inch overlap). I suspected this would happen because when ordering the kit I was given one part number, then went to FFR when I placed the order to pay and was told the website was using the wrong part number for the driveshaft for my setup when reviewing my build. So they changed the part number to the correct part number. When the kit arrived the driveshaft which came was the old part number that had been changed and was the wrong part (turns out maybe it was the right part after all). So I talked to FFR and was able to exchange the supposedly wrong part for the supposedly correct part.

I was hoping the posts discussing 302/T56 not fitting in the coupe wouldn’t apply in my case, and turns out mine likely won’t fit. Will need to modify the mounting bracket and/or get a different driveshaft from FFR or have a custom one built. I don’t blame FFR one bit. This was during the post-pandemic parts and labor shortage hell we all lived through and their logistics with these kits and parts is impressive. Plus they’ve always been great whenever I’ve had a parts issue. Just a warning to those looking at using the T-56 on any non-Coyote engine it seems you will have some modifications to the tranny mount and/or driveshaft to perform. Once final measurements are done I will talk to FFR and see if maybe they have a longer driveshaft that will plug and play in my case and spare the customization in that department. :( Honestly might be cheaper for me to just buy a different transmission than getting a custom driveshaft and modified transmission mount built.

The other thing that test fitting revealed is I can flip the shifter mount on the T-56 around and it will fit without hitting the crossbar. The coup-de-grace here is when I removed the Tremec shift plate to rotate it 180 degrees, I found a large tear in the inner shifter seal. There is a shifter boot on the outside that is fine, but there is also an inner seal and honestly glad I found it now. But also quite a bit aggravating because you can buy the shifter boot for $15. But you can’t buy the inner seal, you have to buy the entire assembly to the tune of $350+. :mad:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194675&d=1705760612

This then led me down an internet rabbit hole reading about these seals and come to find that T-56 are notorious fluid-leakers (or were about 10 years ago), typically from the shift boot and poorly designed inner seal…hopefully this is earlier models, but doesn’t seem that way. If you have a good rear seal on your T-56 consider yourself lucky. Hopefully your vent is a good one and works properly, test it. If those are OK then you only have to worry about the shift boot leaking. If either of those aren't OK then you need to worry about them AND your shift boot leaking.

My summary after reading hundreds of Forum posts about T-56's (read at your own peril): If the inner shifter boot tears you will get leaks around it, just a matter of a couple hundred miles once torn. If the shifter is in the rear position you are likely safe from leaks, even if there is a small inner seal tear because the fluid doesn’t splash as much toward the rear shift position. If your shifter is in the middle (ie turned 180 degrees) or forward position then you will get leaks -- likely small leaks around the shift boot at some point even if the inner seal is OK due to fluid directly spashing up on the seal…to the point that some recommend building a custom baffle to install in this area inside the transmission to lessen the amount of fluid that splashes directly onto the inner seal. If the inner seal breaks in the mid or front position, definite leaks. There are any number of companies that make short throw shifters with plates and better seals that can be installed but many of these will still eventually leak in the mid or front position, but usually not in the rear position. I will likely go with one of these rather than buying a new Tremec part that sounds doomed to eventually leak…if anyone has tried any of these, or knows where to individually purchase a T-56 inner shifter seal I’d appreciate input. UPDATE: Mike Forte was able to source me a replacement take-off part, Thanks Mike!

This also means that I will make my transmission tunnel cover plate removable for future accessibility to the transmission top. Anyhow, really not pleased about this tear – should have checked it the day the transmission arrived, as now out of warranty.



Onward and upward as they say!

[burchfieldb]

I ended up buying Forte's mid shift kit for my TKX. Though I have not used it yet. Seems well built and easy to work on if need be. Also, Mike is super helpful and easy to work with.

Let me know how the rearview mirror works out. I am planning on mounting my camera in the same location.

Brent

[rhk118]

Beginning Electrical

Work has been pretty busy so have been chewing on how to wire this thing. I know there's the manual. And I've gone through as many threads and videos as possible so thanks to everyone for their pictures, videos, and youtube channels. I will do the same in my documenting, because I'm sure I will do things slightly differently with my wiring. I'm thinking of the power system as a "heart" consisting of the main power from the battery and alternator and how those electrons make their way back to the battery via grounds. What size wire? How many grounds? Chassis grounding only (seems to work)? Or run everything back to the battery ground via wires only? Hybrid of the 2?....Mine will be a hybrid of the 2. The rest of the electronics are the arms and legs and need smaller channels, but good flow back to the battery. Haven't thought much past this. I've had a lot of discussion with JohnG about this as he has been working on his wiring for the past 6 months and thankfully has done a lot of the early work researching this and shared with me. Thank you John. I might understand a relay sometime this century haha :confused:....ok probably not... :rolleyes:

Most interesting to me is the idea he found of having a "clean bus" for power as well as a "dirty bus". The dirty bus supplies power to the big things that can produce big voltage spikes in the system. Starter, alternator, fuel pump, Fans, AC...etc. The "clean bus" is I guess a sort of quiet sanctuary for electrons relatively isolated from those spikes for the more finicky (and turns out expensive) things like electronics and control modules - gauges, ECU, digital guard dawg ignition system...etc. so they presumably don't get fried by an errant spike in electricity. My understanding is the most pure version of this "clean" vs "dirty" power is running 2 separate circuits like siamese twins....they share the same battery but have 2 separate circulatory systems - a dirty power loop with its own power line and ground and a clean power loop with its own separate power line and ground...but that would be a lot of wiring and since this isn't an F1 car where any small failure can take you out, likely unnecessary. So I suspect running a hybrid system allowing the "dirty things" access to a chassis and possibly a direct battery ground, while protecting the more finicky electronics behind relays will mitigate against problems. These are just my early thoughts, and honestly its probably overkill because I've been through countless build threads of both coupes and roadsters and nobody seems to have an electronics problem as I've described just grounding to the chassis, and running power through distribution blocks. So maybe this matters and maybe it doesn't. I am truly new to this. I did build some car stereos in my time and they used their own separate circuits to the main battery as well as to their own dedicated capacitors and batteries because no-one likes alternator hiss, or one speaker out of phase due to parallel line inductance....so wiring at least isn't new to me. Running a relay and understanding positive switching vs ground switching vs both and performing surgery on a wiring harness is new to me.

On that note I can already tell the Power Probe III that edwardb recommended will be a critical tool for me in making sure everything works, and that the electricity is going to where it needs to be going.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194729&d=1705861883

My first wiring feat was figuring out which wires in the Digital Guard Dawg ignition system I'm using power the LED light in the switch. I posted this earlier in my thread but my electronic ignition system push-start button will be buried in my dash and actuated by a Lucas-style push start button. Paul pointed out that I need to be able to see that button in case of errors, not so much to use it on the day to day. So I used the power probe and figured out pretty quickly from the wiring harness which wires power that LED light, and now I can tap into that harness and run a LED light up to the dash so I know what's going on. This alone proved the usefulness of the power-probe to me (also being able to test things before installing). LED's I'm going to use are 8mm polished from Watson's Streetworks. Here you can see one of the LED lights tapped into the Digital Guard Dawg switch and both lights on.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194730&d=1705861883

Finally in addition to wiring is where to put everything. I have a lot and due to the electronic steering taking up valuable real-estate near the steering wheel likely won't have room for a glovebox.

The "Brains" I need to hide:
1. Electronic steering ECU
2. Electric parking brake ECU
3. Terminator X ECU and screen
4. Russ Thompson "Blinker and Push-to pass" brain from 520 speedworks
5. Digital Guard Dawg

Add to that any number of extra relays, a couple distribution boxes and likely an extra fusebox (I like the Bussman Relay/Fusebox/distribution box GT_Rich used, seems to get several stones with 1 bird....or something like that). Some things need continuous power and good grounds, Some need to go on accessory power...etc. and I think I just need to sit down and map it all out. Anyhow just typing out loud here. If anything sounds silly, it's probably because it is. The young guys make mistakes because they don't know, the older guys make mistakes because they don't care to check anymore (taps on the altimeter gauge). I guess that makes me young :)

Just a word on AI. I believe Apple recently implemented AI for their spell checking and it has gone from bad to worse. Completely changing normally spelled correct words to correctly spelled completely wrong words on me. If there are weird word substitutions, maybe I really am losing my mind...but I'm blaming Apple's bow here! Have a great week :o

[burchfieldb]

Check out post 57 on my build thread. GT77 provided some information on an alternative to the Bussman unit that is a lot smaller and completely configurable. He sent me some more information on it, if interested I can send it to you.

[GT77]

If you do want to stick with the Eaton Bussman RMTR unit (which to be fair is a really nice unit - just not as a space compact as others but does have nice numbering), I would recommend purchasing the the shorter cover (which I found they started making since the last time I used them in 2016) and might give you more options for mounting. P/N is Eaton Bussman B151-7168-J Best of luck with the build!

-Thomas

[rhk118]

Check out post 57 on my build thread. GT77 provided some information on an alternative to the Bussman unit that is a lot smaller and completely configurable. He sent me some more information on it, if interested I can send it to you.


If you do want to stick with the Eaton Bussman RMTR unit (which to be fair is a really nice unit - just not as a space compact as others but does have nice numbering), I would recommend purchasing the the shorter cover (which I found they started making since the last time I used them in 2016) and might give you more options for mounting. P/N is Eaton Bussman B151-7168-J Best of luck with the build!

-Thomas

Thanks so much guys, I will check it out. In the meantime I was reading about the Digital Guard Dawg unit (PBS II) I'll be using for electronic ignition and it MIGHT solve my relay problem for the main electrical things. It has 3 60A relays built in - one for the starter and 2 accessories. They can be programmed on or off depending on the ignition state of the unit - Accessory, Start, and Armed - So I likely can feed these relays into the FFR fusebox to the "accessory" and "running" parts of that fusebox. Then I might be able to get away with a couple of individual relays, but this PBS II might have saved me quite a bit of jiggering with wiring. I do want my additional electronics fused in a central location though, don't want to have inline fuses everywhere.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194781&d=1705927748

Appreciate you both chiming in!

[edwardb]

Thanks so much guys, I will check it out. In the meantime I was reading about the Digital Guard Dawg unit (PBS II) I'll be using for electronic ignition and it MIGHT solve my relay problem for the main electrical things. It has 3 60A relays built in - one for the starter and 2 accessories. They can be programmed on or off depending on the ignition state of the unit - Accessory, Start, and Armed - So I likely can feed these relays into the FFR fusebox to the "accessory" and "running" parts of that fusebox. Then I might be able to get away with a couple of individual relays, but this PBS II might have saved me quite a bit of jiggering with wiring. I do want my additional electronics fused in a central location though, don't want to have inline fuses everywhere.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=194781&d=1705927748

Appreciate you both chiming in!

Hello Hank. You will need one of the accessory wires out of the DGD PBS II for your RF accessory feed. But the other one is available as you indicated. Per my Coupe build notes, I wired the RF Brown Accessory Feed to DGD Brown Accessory 2. For the other, I wired the DGD Pink/Blk Accessory 1 to a 20 amp breaker and a dual USB accessory socket. If could be used to power something else of course. Just how I chose to use it. Note it does need to be fused or have a breaker. I don't recall why I chose Accessory 1 vs. Accessory 2 for the RF accessory feed. Must have been a reason from when I mocked the wiring up on the bench before installing.

[rhk118]

Hello Hank. You will need one of the accessory wires out of the DGD PBS II for your RF accessory feed. But the other one is available as you indicated. Per my Coupe build notes, I wired the RF Brown Accessory Feed to DGD Brown Accessory 2. For the other, I wired the DGD Pink/Blk Accessory 1 to a 20 amp breaker and a dual USB accessory socket. If could be used to power something else of course. Just how I chose to use it. Note it does need to be fused or have a breaker. I don't recall why I chose Accessory 1 vs. Accessory 2 for the RF accessory feed. Must have been a reason from when I mocked the wiring up on the bench before installing.

Thanks so much Paul. Appreciate you chiming in here. Good to know about putting fuses on the accessory outs, important safety point there as I'm still in "big picture" mode. Reading about this DGD unit it also has MSD filtering to prevent the starter from sending the voltage spikes to everything else, so it actually seems to address a lot of the issues I was rambling on about above!

[rhk118]

Transmission shifter seal update

Mike Forte for the win! Was ordering my clutch along with some ARP bolts and he was able to source a take-off shifter and plate for the T-56. Thanks so much Mike!

I wasn't too jazzed about going with a short-shifter for the T56 as its replacement so all is good.

[edwardb]

Thanks so much Paul. Appreciate you chiming in here. Good to know about putting fuses on the accessory outs, important safety point there as I'm still in "big picture" mode. Reading about this DGD unit it also has MSD filtering to prevent the starter from sending the voltage spikes to everything else, so it actually seems to address a lot of the issues I was rambling on about above!

Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding -- what you add to the DGD accessory power (USB accessory socket in my case) does need either a fuse or breaker. Whichever DGD accessory power wire you connect to the RF brown accessory wire does not need a fuse or breaker. The RF wire is feeding the panel where all powered circuits are already fused. Hope that makes sense.

[rhk118]

Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding -- what you add to the DGD accessory power (USB accessory socket in my case) does need either a fuse or breaker. Whichever DGD accessory power wire you connect to the RF brown accessory wire does not need a fuse or breaker. The RF wire is feeding the panel where all powered circuits are already fused. Hope that makes sense.

Yes, that makes sense to me Paul. I appreciate your thoughtfulness in picking up on that detail in my reply as it does help, but now I have a question:

Theoretically I would hook up accessory #2 (brown wire) to the RF harness brown wire just because they are the same color and I sometimes need to troubleshoot things from myself which keeps it simple (plus you did it and it works :) ), which means my accessory #1 will be open. Because it is a 60A relay, I could then run accessory #1 (the remaining available one) to a power distribution box and run 2-3 things off of that such as a USB adapter, powered mirror, internal footwell lights...etc. and they would each be fused separately? or should I run a 20A breaker between the DGD and that power distribution box AND separately fuse everything that Accessory cable is running? I don't think I would put 20A of draw on that line but I certainly wouldn't try and approach the 60A the DGD is rated for. Sorry if this seems silly.

FYI I bought my father in law a Power Probe for belated X-Mas gift as he's currently rebuilding a Land Rover IIa from the ground up and about to start his wiring. That is one handy device. Thanks for finding it

[edwardb]

Yes, that makes sense to me Paul. I appreciate your thoughtfulness in picking up on that detail in my reply as it does help, but now I have a question:

Theoretically I would hook up accessory #2 (brown wire) to the RF harness brown wire just because they are the same color and I sometimes need to troubleshoot things from myself which keeps it simple (plus you did it and it works :) ), which means my accessory #1 will be open. Because it is a 60A relay, I could then run accessory #1 (the remaining available one) to a power distribution box and run 2-3 things off of that such as a USB adapter, powered mirror, internal footwell lights...etc. and they would each be fused separately? or should I run a 20A breaker between the DGD and that power distribution box AND separately fuse everything that Accessory cable is running? I don't think I would put 20A of draw on that line but I certainly wouldn't try and approach the 60A the DGD is rated for. Sorry if this seems silly.

FYI I bought my father in law a Power Probe for belated X-Mas gift as he's currently rebuilding a Land Rover IIa from the ground up and about to start his wiring. That is one handy device. Thanks for finding it

You wouldn't need to add a fuse/breaker on the Accessory 1 lead you described if whatever you have attached to it downstream via a power distribution box, bus bar, whatever each have their own protection devices. As long as the total of what you're connecting doesn't exceed the rating of the circuit (60 amps) which it sounds like it doesn't. Technically, protection on the line out of the DGD wouldn't hurt anything. But adds another layer of possible failure that isn't necessary. The Power Probe is a handy device for sure.

[rhk118]

Engine to Transmission

This was a fun project - got the T-56 hooked up to the 347 (the block is from a 1974 Bronco, so if it looks old, well its a year older than me). Used a Ram Powergrip clutch and Quicktime Bell housing that was pre-cut off so the housing doesn't hang beneath the frame (thank you Mike Forte). I also used Forte's external slave bracket for ease of serviceability if thats ever needed. I am using a Stiffler's Driveshaft Safety Loop ('79-'98) which bolts to the transmission at the mounting bracket, visible in the last 2 photos. This is unique because it bolts to the transmission at the mount rather than mounting a safety hoop to the frame. Price is the obvious trade-off but trade-off is ease of install.

Took the stacks off of the intake so they weren't damaged by the engine hoist.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195512&d=1707525494

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195513&d=1707525494

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195514&d=1707525494

Forte's External Slave Bracket:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195516&d=1707525520

Stiffler's Driveshaft Safety Loop ('79-'98)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195517&d=1707525520

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195518&d=1707525520

[rhk118]

Engine and Transmission Test Fit

Got the engine and transmission "officially" fit-tested today and mounted on the Energy Suspension engine mounts from the kit.

A few observations (and questions):
1. FFR Driveshaft might be OK - there is plenty of overlap with the driveshaft and the splined rear of the T-56. But is it too much overlap? Perhaps the issue with the threads discussing the 302 block/T-56 combo needing custom driveshafts aren't because the driveshaft is too short, but maybe rather too long? The 3rd picture is the FFR driveshaft installed. 4th Picture is with the driveshaft just engaged with the transmission but not all the way back, and the final picture is the engine/transmission on the mounts. Perhaps the FFR universal joint it too long for this combo? Or is this amount of driveshaft show ok in this car as the chassis is so stiff and I won't need to worry about much movement there? Appreciate thoughts on this

2. The rear of my transmission isn't centered in the transmission tunnel, the rear of the transmission is angled towards the driver's side - can be seen clearly in Picture #5, this angle towards the drivers side didn't change once mounted. Perhaps the engine mounts need to be shimmed to straighten this out?

3. I will need to make a custom transmission mount bracket. Like others the transmission mounting plate is about 1 - 1.5 inches too far forward in the tunnel relative to the T-56 mount. So the 302's push the T-56 in farther than the Coyotes - Transmission mount is farther back, and there isn't a lot of driveshaft yoke show (less than 1/2 inch), general google answer is 3/4" of the yoke should show to minimize the risk of bottoming out the driveshaft and the transmission.

4. Shifter will likely be OK in the middle position (turned around) without interfering with the crossing frame others have had to cut.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195519&d=1707525542

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195525&d=1707527295

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195521&d=1707525542

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195522&d=1707525561

Lined up but not fully seated:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195523&d=1707525561

Fully seated (is that enough driveshaft exposed?):
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195524&d=1707525561

It was a great day!

[rhk118]

Here are pictures of the transmission mounting plate:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195526&d=1707528352

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195527&d=1707528352

[rhk118]

Picture of the T-56 Shifter. Maybe the crossbar will interfere, maybe it won't:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195539&d=1707571469

[edwardb]

Nice progress! Responses to two of your activities:

That amount of slip joint showing for your build is fine. With IRS the diff doesn't move. So you don't need as much exposed joint and possible movement as with a solid axle setup. The only downside is with it that close, it may be difficult to remove the driveshaft. Mine will tip in and out without undoing anything but it has a little bit more slip joint showing. I'd leave it like it is though.

For the radiator, I've found the FF setup with the rubber hose bumper on the bottom mounts and the crossover piece on the top it's fine. There isn't a lot of vibration plus it's captured inside the tanks versus hanging on a flange like on the Roadster. As for the shield on the bottom, I agree the bottom of the radiator is exposed. The shield you're talking about in the video at least for me is a little over the top. I've seen 4-wheelers with less. Although I know he does a lot of autocross and cones can do some damage. (Just don't hit 'em. :p) For mine, I made a screen out of SS mesh and an aluminum frame. Should handle road debris, rocks, whatever. All I figure I need.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153357&d=1631613588

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153356&d=1631613588

[rhk118]

Nice progress! Responses to two of your activities:

That amount of slip joint showing for your build is fine. With IRS the diff doesn't move. So you don't need as much exposed joint and possible movement as with a solid axle setup. The only downside is with it that close, it may be difficult to remove the driveshaft. Mine will tip in and out without undoing anything but it has a little bit more slip joint showing. I'd leave it like it is though.

For the radiator, I've found the FF setup with the rubber hose bumper on the bottom mounts and the crossover piece on the top it's fine. There isn't a lot of vibration plus it's captured inside the tanks versus hanging on a flange like on the Roadster. As for the shield on the bottom, I agree the bottom of the radiator is exposed. The shield you're talking about in the video at least for me is a little over the top. I've seen 4-wheelers with less. Although I know he does a lot of autocross and cones can do some damage. (Just don't hit 'em. :p) For mine, I made a screen out of SS mesh and an aluminum frame. Should handle road debris, rocks, whatever. All I figure I need.

Thanks Paul. The engine and transmission fit gets a little more complicated now (just bolding for people perusing this) - was playing around with the angle of the transmission and it is now sitting flush with the driveshaft universal joint. Going to try and oblong the engine mounting holes on both sides (on the mounts obviously) and possibly on the frame to see if I can find 1/2" of forward motion on the entire engine/transmission. Will see how it goes. Now the Stifflers driveshaft hoop appears too long, and is more over the U-joint at the differential and not over the driveshaft proper where it should be. Also decided to just cut out the crossmember and reinforce so the shifter plate can be easily accessed if I ever have to replace that inner seal again down the road).

I really like the screen protector you made for the lower part of the radiator. I'm going to do something (screen like you, or maybe the hex-aluminum sheets a lot of the roadster guys use). I went to the FFR open house last summer and one of the coupes had a car in front of him kick up a rock on the highway and it punctured his radiator. He made it to the show but was leaking. Unfortunately the radiators were backordered at the time and FFR didn't have any on hand. I think he had a tow home. There are worse things like cracking your oil pan or cooler, but the radiator's exposure is real.

[Higgybulin]

OK, I am all caught up... Wheres the updates?!
Higgy

[rhk118]

OK, I am all caught up... Wheres the updates?!
Higgy

Haha! Thanks Higgy. Work has been a bit crazy leading up to a vacation, then vacation, then catchup week after vacation (multiple long weekends seem better than full vacations to me, the before week and after week are exhausting). Will be getting back to it shortly. Still at deciding if I need a custom driveshaft after all and working on a new transmission mount bracket. Once that bracket is made engine will be getting painted and I'll start wiring.

[rhk118]

Seats

OK, here's something that arrived today. Finally got my seats in. These are Stoneleigh seats custom built by Intratrim Automotive Interiors (https://intatrim.co.uk) in Britain. It took about 3 months from order to arrival and I am very happy with them to say the least. I found them through a couple roadster builds I follow on Instagram, and when pricing them out they come in about the same price as all other name brand sports seats--so one thing lead to another and....well, here they are (and wife saw them, sat in one and gave her wholehearted approval). You can customize everything on these (which I did but stuck to black as thats my interior color with some white stitching to break things up a little), they are heated (I am in New England after all), and they can embroider logos.

I am very happy with my fit in the kit Cobra seats in terms of the bottom and these have a very similar fit on bottom (whew). What I found (for me anyway) is that in the kit seats the transmission tunnel and the wall up to the sill naturally bolster me side to side, so these have back and shoulder bolstering but not so much on the bottom. These are a fiberglass shell that measures 16.5 inches at the bottom width, and the seat to back angle is the same as the kit seats. So these will easily fit between the tabs, and should sit far back, which I found was my strong preference when comparing the Corbeau Evolution X to the Vinyl Roadster Seats. My car is still at my friends shop working on a custom transmission bracket so will hopefully get over there and try them in soon.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196437&d=1709581898

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196436&d=1709581898

[JimStone]

Those seats are sweeeet!

[LateApex]

Wow! Those look nice.

I opted for the crack-back bucket seats, which I think are very comfortable, and I like them, as they remind me of my first car which was a '68 Firebird with the factory ram air, 400 c.i. V8 and the Muncie 4-speed fitted with a Hurst Super-Comp T-Handled shifter. THAT car had too much engine; like the Sunbeam Alpine/Tiger - more power than brakes :-)

FWIW, a key consideration for builders of "The Coupe" is head protection. With the roll cage, a minor incident with another vehicle on public roads translates to head injury. I have a Steve McQueen Bell helmet which I'll don when I am deliberately driving fast (is there any other way???), but I am second guessing whether I should have at least considered protection against "the crack back" and / or side impact protection :-)

[rhk118]

Wow! Those look nice.

I opted for the crack-back bucket seats, which I think are very comfortable, and I like them, as they remind me of my first car which was a '68 Firebird with the factory ram air, 400 c.i. V8 and the Muncie 4-speed fitted with a Hurst Super-Comp T-Handled shifter. THAT car had too much engine; like the Sunbeam Alpine/Tiger - more power than brakes :-)

FWIW, a key consideration for builders of "The Coupe" is head protection. With the roll cage, a minor incident with another vehicle on public roads translates to head injury. I have a Steve McQueen Bell helmet which I'll don when I am deliberately driving fast (is there any other way???), but I am second guessing whether I should have at least considered protection against "the crack back" and / or side impact protection :-)

Bob, I imagine it's easy enough to get some kind of head pad mounted on the roll cage behind your head for this, that was my other consideration. Also on the Kirkey website they sell adhesive closed cell foam padding for roll cages that I will mount to the roll cage next to the side of my head as I can see that being a problematic point of side impact, I have a big melon, not from smarts, probably too much air up there! :p

[LateApex]

I am using Longacre roll bar padding. Bought a couple extra sticks of the size for the roll bar tubing (to add to the couple of sticks that came with the build). The sticky tape needs zip tie reinforcement. The roll cage is still a "blunt impact" for any significant impact tho ... Side impact is probably the greatest risk, as most folks are using a high back chair methinks ...

If I am going to drive aggressively, I put on the Bell helmet and pretend I am Steve McQueen :-)

[rhk118]

I am using Longacre roll bar padding. Bought a couple extra sticks of the size for the roll bar tubing (to add to the couple of sticks that came with the build). The sticky tape needs zip tie reinforcement. The roll cage is still a "blunt impact" for any significant impact tho ... Side impact is probably the greatest risk, as most folks are using a high back chair methinks ...

If I am going to drive aggressively, I put on the Bell helmet and pretend I am Steve McQueen :-)

Honestly I've had the same thought RE the helmet. Its going to be so loud in there that likely will help my ears haha!

[LateApex]

I found that the open face helmet doesn't do much to knock down the dB's. This is mostly due to fit I think. A closed face helmet with the "neck gaitor" would do better.

Once you start down the helmet path, you'll likely get distracted by communication systems, particularly if you ride with a partner a fair amount.

I continue to do tweaks to cabin noise dampening. I have recently installed SecondSkin adhesive-backed noise dampening panels on the interior of my roof (where the headliner would be if I had chosen to install that). It really damps the drum head that is the roof panel, it has a nice appearance and "hand", and is very easy to install. It is quite thin / light, which translates to "it will likely not peel off the interior of the roof over time due to gravity and the characteristics of butyl." I hope ... :-)

[rhk118]

I found that the open face helmet doesn't do much to knock down the dB's. This is mostly due to fit I think. A closed face helmet with the "neck gaitor" would do better.

Once you start down the helmet path, you'll likely get distracted by communication systems, particularly if you ride with a partner a fair amount.

I continue to do tweaks to cabin noise dampening. I have recently installed SecondSkin adhesive-backed noise dampening panels on the interior of my roof (where the headliner would be if I had chosen to install that). It really damps the drum head that is the roof panel, it has a nice appearance and "hand", and is very easy to install. It is quite thin / light, which translates to "it will likely not peel off the interior of the roof over time due to gravity and the characteristics of butyl." I hope ... :-)

Thought about this a lot Bob. Wondering if there is room to bow those rollcage bars out to the side a bit or up towards the roof a bit to make some room for the noggin'....posted a different thread about this on the main coupe page to see if I can get some pictures of how much space there might be, don't have my body.

[rhk118]

Seats (cont'd)
Pictures of the seats in the car. These are not on their mounts which will put them up a little and also have a sliding function. Angle is perfect for the car. They slide right back and seat angle to the back wall angle are pretty much the same and no risk of the shoulder bolster coming in contact with the bodywork. For me and my legs these will do nicely because I like to be back from the wheel and not have my knees flexed too much. Interesting thing though is they are so narrow that there is 2" on either side of them to the transmission tunnel and other side whereas the other seats (Roadster Vinyls and Corbeaus) pretty much take up the entire width. These seats are a fiberglass seat.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196830&d=1710362928

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196831&d=1710362928


Driveshaft w/347 SBF and T-56
Modified the engine mounts and was able to get everything forward 3/4" so I now have over 1/2" of the driveshaft showing from the rear seal. Problem solved.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196824&d=1710362905

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196825&d=1710362905

[rhk118]

Transmission Mount
By moving the engine and transmission forward 3/4" the factory five transmission bracket still doesn't line up with the transmission mount so adding an extension backwards to the FFR mount, and a couple tabs to the frame to support this extension with a couple of bolts.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196826&d=1710362905

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196827&d=1710362905

Safety Hoop
With the transmission and engine pulled forward got a little angle into the driveshaft which hit the driveshaft safety hoop that I bought. That had to be modified as well as it was hitting the wider part of the driveshaft - shortened it and put in an angle. If I stuck with the $20 Summit safety hoop all would have been fine. Note to self but too late for me :p . Does that angle out back with the transmission/driveshaft seem too extreme to anyone? I know it should be there so the universal joint works properly but does this look like too much?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196828&d=1710362928

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196829&d=1710362928

Shifter Plate
This also has placed the transmission slightly towards the driver's side in the tunnel. It looked like the shifter would work without cutting the crossbar but the shifter plate bolt is crashing into the crossbar and won't line up. Going to cut out the crossbar like others. Now I also have to move/bend my fuel lines more towards the DS as they are crashing into the transmission. Bit of a domino effect going on in the tranny tunnel at the moment. Another reason to cut the crossbar (maybe) is serviceability for the T-56 shifter plate in case there is ever a problem with the inner or outer shift boot seal.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196832&d=1710364112

[burchfieldb]

Hi Hank,
I'm not an expert, but I think you want a max operating angle no greater than 3 degrees and no less than 1/2 degree. This applies in any plane.

Brent

[Skuzzy]

Hi Hank,
I'm not an expert, but I think you want a max operating angle no greater than 3 degrees and no less than 1/2 degree. This applies in any plane.

Brent

For that short of a driveshaft, a maximum of 2 degress is a better number to shoot for.

[LateApex]

This second photo caught my eye. It's probably the camera perspective, but the steering hub does not appear to align with your crotch - ha!

If it is any consolation, the steering shaft (and steering wheel) in my build points left. It is like Daytona (Oops, here comes another left turn :-). I am canted to my left in my build. This aligns with the foot-box, which also positions the body left and is mouse-nuts in the grand scheme of things. Haha!

FWIW ... Make sure your body is aligned with the steering shaft as you set your seats, not some arbitrary spacing from aluminum sidewall or some such.

It is great to watch this build !!

[rhk118]

This second photo caught my eye. It's probably the camera perspective, but the steering hub does not appear to align with your crotch - ha!

If it is any consolation, the steering shaft (and steering wheel) in my build points left. It is like Daytona (Oops, here comes another left turn :-). I am canted to my left in my build. This aligns with the foot-box, which also positions the body left and is mouse-nuts in the grand scheme of things. Haha!

FWIW ... Make sure your body is aligned with the steering shaft as you set your seats, not some arbitrary spacing from aluminum sidewall or some such.

It is great to watch this build !!

Thanks Bob, Yes I'm aware that the seats in this tend to not point "forward". These photos just have the seats sitting in there flat. There is so much room on either side (compared to the Corbeau's) that I will have quite a bit more wiggle room to offset them or angle them in one direction or another. I also am going to put them on sliders so they will go up a little from floor height but will be positioned so they can slide all the way back. That should then fit most drivers. For me I want my seating position "dead nuts" on or as close to that as it can be otherwise that would be a reason not to take long journeys (nuts and bolts I'm screwed :rolleyes: ). If I'm thinking about seating position while driving then it's wrong, if that makes sense. I am going to adjust those side upper rollbars as well...so seating position first, then see if there's enough room to adjust those around my noggin. If not I have no issues wearing a helmet.

I'm also on a non-ozempic diet haha...if I lose a few #'s I'll fit in the car better. Gained a bit of weight not being able to do my usual weight lifting/activity with the herniated disc last year. That is still bothersome (and now a "feature" of my body) but better enough that I've been able to start exercising again.

[Higgybulin]

I need more motor pics!!!

[LateApex]

I'm looking forward to seeing how you "bow" those side bars on the roll cage. In my car, which is dang close to the era of your kit, there is not much more than a finger width between the roll bar and the fiberglass laterally, and less in the region of the rear quarter windows. There is more room to move or bow the bars up; maybe as much as 2" near the front and maybe 1.5" at the rear hoop (due to the slope of the roof). My sense is you will need some careful measurements with the body dry-fitted. It is an interesting idea: better clearance for the noggin and a bit better visibility out the top of the window. Those upper roll bars are clearly visible through the door cutout from outside the car and not tucked as well as the A-pillar roll cage uprights, for example.

I have decided to lose the rear quarter scoops, a.k.a.: the Big Ears. They serve no function except creating drag, turbulence and noise, and pressurizing the cabin. When I say "lose", I mean filling the cutout for the scoop mounting flange and smoothing the body lines. They used to have a function in the originals (rear brake cooling), but most of us are not designing that ducting for any of our rotors. If I were, I'd use a different approach anyway.

Glad to hear you are getting past some of the problems with your herniated disc!!

[rhk118]

Not much of an update as have had a lot going on the past couple months. Picking up where I left off, had to cut out the crossbar in the transmission tunnel, shortened it and placed it transversely leaving enough room that I can remove the T-56 shifter plate if ever needed in the future. With the 302 block and T-56 the shifter was too far back, even with pulling everything forward 3/4" by adjusting the engine mounts. Also removed the bracket for the parking brake as I am using an electric parking brake in my build. I then ran the rear wiring harness along the right side of the tunnel there as well and up the crossbeam at the front of the tunnel:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198455&d=1713612733

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198456&d=1713612733

Started wiring. For now I have just laid out where I want the rear wiring harness to run, as well as the electronic parking brake cables and mounted P-clamps. Need to perform harness surgery and will fuse the 2 harnesses together. There is A LOT of extra wire in the parking brake harness to remove, and will also need to tap in power for the T-56 reverse lockout/backup light controller I will be using - so will run backup light wires, EPB wires, and speed sensing wires into 1 harness and fuse the 2 together. Need to shorten some things and change slightly where they exit the harness. The orange tapes are marking where I need to tie things in or pull things out of the harness. I've never done harness surgery before but figure this an easy enough harness to start with, maybe will give me confidence with the main wiring harness.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198453&d=1713610917

Ran it along the right side of the transmission tunnel to the back, and you can see the smaller electronic parking brake wires splitting to the left and right calipers lying on the differential as well:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198452&d=1713610917

Here is one of the EBP connections, sorry out of focus but you can see where the electronic parking brake module plugs in by the zip tie:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198454&d=1713610917

One scary part of the build was a bit of a surprise. Prepping the engine block for paint, removed the valve covers and found what we've figured out to be ceramic tumbling beads sitting on top of the engine in the corners. Inspecting the valve covers there is a little metal shelf inside and there were several more wedged in there which is where they came from/managed to hitchhike into my engine build.

The valve covers I'm using are vintage replica Shelby valve covers from Shelby American. They are stamped steel and powder coated silver, these beads must be from the tumbling process after powder coat I assume and holy crap this is scary. Not something I would ever have thought of to check for, and glad I looked under that shelf inside because ticking time bomb. My engine was dyno'ed with these valve covers on. So because of this I had to remove the oil pain and inspect and fortunately no signs of any of these or any fragments of these in the oil pan. They are slightly larger than BBs (10/32 bolt there for comparison). Have a bit of a knot in my stomach over this, was going for a vintage look of a period-correct Shelby SBF but one without the vintage look of smoke coming out the back. One of the risks of building your own engine I guess :( ...once again proving that the path of least resistance with these in time, materials, angst, and money is to just put in a Coyote like FF clearly designed them for.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198450&d=1713610917

[460.465USMC]

Phew! Great catch, Hank! "...was going for a vintage look of a period-correct Shelby SBF but one without the vintage look of smoke coming out the back". Very funny, and couldn't agree more.

[rhk118]

I'm not suggesting they smoke, but don't want to be the guy with that re-creation or feature! If I wanted to I'd just tape a smoke bomb to the back and drive around that way like we did on our bikes back in the day! :) So glad the block wasn't painted before putting the engine together otherwise would have never seen those. Sometimes its better to be lucky than good as they say...

[rhk118]

Rear Wiring Harness

Just about completed the rear wiring harness. I say just about as haven't finalized where the exit point of the transmission wiring harness will be from the main portion of the harness in the transmission tunnel. I ended up cutting the entire rear wiring harness apart as I am running a rear backup camera, rear electric Wilwood parking brake system, one on each caliper, and the Bowler T-56 harness which provides reverse solenoid lockout, power to the reverse lights (and will use this for the backup camera), and VSS speed sensing for the Speedhut gauge. I had sent my kit GPS Speedhut gauge back to Speedhut and they converted it to a VSS-sensing speedometer for a shipping charge of $15. Very lovely and easy to work with folks.

So rather than running all of that separately out back, I tied it all into the harness so I'm running "1" harness out back. I also ran the reverse camera wire through this harness but didn't "tie it in" to the harness so I can slide it front to rear to get the reach I need between the mirror and the camera once I finalize their positions.


Photos on the forum aren't working at the moment so hopefully this works:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198800&d=1714431756

Front of the harness is on the left, and the taillights are on the right. The bundle of wires on the left are the transmission harness speed sending and power wires. Another bundle are the 4 wires going to the left and right emergency parking brake actuators (that harness came with about 6' extra wire and definitely had to be cut down anyway), and the other bundle of wires is the reverse backup cam wire. In the harness I ran a backup light + wire from the transmission harness out to the driver side rear of the car with the brake light. Will ground and jump to the other light and backup camera in the back of the car.

Next wire with the 3 connectors is the transmission computer, reverse sensor, and backup lockout solenoid harnesses. The next 2 are the left and right parking brake actuators. Note if you're going to use these the left side gets mounted on the right caliper and vice-versa, otherwise the wires will get caught in the shock. Next 2 wires are fuel pump power using the harness wires, and the fuel sender using the harness wires, both of those were quite long and shortened maybe 20" each. Finally the last 2 are the left and right brake lights, backup camera wire up top, and the green wire at the bottom is the backup light power from the transmission. I re-wrapped everything using fabric loom rather than the plastic tubing as it seems a bit easier to work with, especially when deciding where to pull certain branches out.

[rhk118]

Interval Update
Life has been busy so haven't had much time to work on the coupe. I have a few free minutes this morning to post a few photos of progress.

Rear Wiring Harness:
This is installed. Used braided wiring loom and spliced the T-56 Transmission rear lockout/speed sending unit as well as the wires for the left and right Wildwood EBP motors on the rear rotors into the main harness. Ran it through the passenger side of the transmission tunnel with SS P-clamps and SS Rivets.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200496&d=1717937598

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200497&d=1717937598

Engine Compartment:
Decided to go with a matte black powder coat on the engine compartment panels. All the panels around the engine are installed. The name of the powder coat is "Blackjack" and matches the frame powder coat nearly perfectly (not sure which company makes it). It is riveted in with wide-head black 1/8" rivets from Summit. Very happy with how this looks:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200495&d=1717937598

Steering Rack Brace
Since the car will be seeing track time and there are 2 U-joints in the steering system I added a steering rack brace near the front using a ball-bearing rod end. This is likely complete overkill (OK it IS complete overkill) but I just don't want to take any chances at all with potential for the U-Joints locking up under extreme conditions. This is just a safety measure.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200491&d=1717937261


Engine
Painted the block and the AFR headers black. Thought a lot about going with a dark Ford blue on the block but decided to stick with the basic black that the original cars had on their blocks. Also contrasts nicely with the silvery bits. For the front end I went with a "Front runner" setup from Vintage Air for the 302. This is the Black/Silver kit. It is very clean, and very compact. I'm really happy with how it turned out.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200494&d=1717937598

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200493&d=1717937261

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200492&d=1717937261

[Skuzzy]

Like that look. Nicely done.

[Higgybulin]

Ooooooh MAN!!

[burchfieldb]

Man, that looks really sharp!

[JimStone]

Bringing the bling!

[jgray]

Hey Hank,

Congratulations on all your progress. I’ve read and re-read the last two pages of your thread and I have concerns and questions about the T56, which as you know I am installing like you. I received mine from Mike Forte in April 2023. I have not messed with the covers the way you have.
However, before I get into my stuff, I want to say I am super impressed by the quality of your work! Your research and your execution are exemplary.

You say “Hopefully your vent is a good one and works properly, test it” - how do you test it?
You say “If the shifter is in the rear position you are likely safe from leaks” – mine is in the rear position, which is how it came and I don’t intend changing it. So hopefully I will be good

I will make my transmission tunnel panels removable; this shouldn’t be hard with the simplistic vinyl covering approach I am taking.

Very much like the way your seats are between the mounts and it gives you more leg room. I currently have the FFR low backs but may consider something like what you have if the leg room is a real issue.

Not sure where you are with the wiring but I did end up running separate power and ground to my alternate fuse box. Seemed like a good idea at the time! I am still working on the wiring because I switched to using the Speedhut sender wires rather than the ones in the harness. I did this because the Speedhut tech suggested it because of the shared ground in the harness. I also was late adding my 4 in 1 transmission control unit and have wires from that going all over the place. I made both of these changes before I moved house and didn’t take the time to route the wires somewhat cleanly. Now it bugs me, so I am reworking it.

For your transmission mount you reference adding a couple of tabs – do you have any additional pictures that show how these support the mount?

Thanks for taking the time to post all that you have.

John.

[LateApex]

What are the other projects you have in the background here Hank? You are having too much fun methinks
:-)

[rhk118]

Hey John - sorry for the delayed reply. I think some of the T-56s early on came with bad vents, and that comment was based on forums from 2007-2008ish. If the vent was bad then you were more likely to get rear end leaks on the T-56 because pressure would build up inside. I suspect that isn't an issue now. The leaks around the shifter boot - there was a lot of this on T-56 related forums. If the shifter is fully forward then there is less "spash" of transmission fluid onto the bottom of the shifter boot, more "splash" of fluid in the mid position with more reported leaks. By cutting out the crossbar in mine was able to get the shifter fully forward in mine. The thought here is if it starts to leak you can replace the plate and shifter boot. I don't see this mentioned as a problem here on the forum, so I struck it up to be something to be aware of - that the T56 could eventually leak around the shifter plate/boot and might need servicing. So that crossbar in mine that I replaced doesn't cover or interfere with the ****fer plate and it can be changed out in the future easily if needed. Hopefully overthought problem and never needed!

I'll get better photos of the plate. Basically with the t-56 the mounts will be further back than the limits of the bracket with a 302.

[rhk118]

Hey Bob! Lots of stuff going on. Work is absolutely nuts and been eating up some of my free weekends for the past 4-5 months. Also had my eldest Daughter graduate from High School which involved a surprising number of events at school, meetings, parties, family visiting, coordination of older family members traveling some distance...etc. all while my other kids were full on spring sports every day. I did manage to make it to a 7 hour track day a couple of weeks ago (7 20-minute) sessions, so that was fun...can't wait to get the Daytona there!

My takeaway from that is I will likely need some kind of intercom system in the Daytona for passenger-driver that isn't one of those wired microphones that you stuff into your helmet then wire yourself to the other person's helmet....that wire kept getting stuck in the shifter going across my console and pulling on the microphone/earpiece with shifts into fast corners....and that was in a normal relatively quiet car...maybe there is a wireless system or I can put jacks into the transmission tunnel or somewhere the driver/passenger can plug into and not have a wire running across the transmission tunnel and near the shifter.

Finally...I am considering adding the Turkey Pan to the Weber setup. Turns out there is a shop within an hour of my house that makes them for Jim Inglese (Jim gave me their name, great guy him!)....The thought being it will hide a bunch of the wires going over the engine and I'd like to not have interference with any wires and the throttle mechanism either, but then might need to cut an intake hole in the hood. Cool. :D

I think I've gotten very good at outfitting the thing without actually accomplishing any building! :rolleyes:

[jgray]

Hey John - sorry for the delayed reply. I think some of the T-56s early on came with bad vents, and that comment was based on forums from 2007-2008ish. If the vent was bad then you were more likely to get rear end leaks on the T-56 because pressure would build up inside. I suspect that isn't an issue now. The leaks around the shifter boot - there was a lot of this on T-56 related forums. If the shifter is fully forward then there is less "spash" of transmission fluid onto the bottom of the shifter boot, more "splash" of fluid in the mid position with more reported leaks. By cutting out the crossbar in mine was able to get the shifter fully forward in mine. The thought here is if it starts to leak you can replace the plate and shifter boot. I don't see this mentioned as a problem here on the forum, so I struck it up to be something to be aware of - that the T56 could eventually leak around the shifter plate/boot and might need servicing. So that crossbar in mine that I replaced doesn't cover or interfere with the ****fer plate and it can be changed out in the future easily if needed. Hopefully overthought problem and never needed!

I'll get better photos of the plate. Basically with the t-56 the mounts will be further back than the limits of the bracket with a 302.


Hi Hank, as always thanks for sharing all the info and for doing the research! Currently I plan to keep my shifter in the rear most location. I tested fitted the gear stick that comes with the kit - leans forward significantly and I think it will put the shifter in a good location, so that is my current plan.

Your seats look great. I noticed they fit between the seatbelt connections- i am wondering how much further back the seats go because of this. I have to low backs that came with the kit and they are to wide to go between the seat belt connections. I am wondering if I should try other options, or hack into my seats to get them as far back as possible.

Thanks

John

[LateApex]

Hey Bob! Lots of stuff going on. Work is absolutely nuts and been eating up some of my free weekends for the past 4-5 months. Also had my eldest Daughter graduate from High School which involved a surprising number of events at school, meetings, parties, family visiting, coordination of older family members traveling some distance...etc. all while my other kids were full on spring sports every day. I did manage to make it to a 7 hour track day a couple of weeks ago (7 20-minute) sessions, so that was fun...can't wait to get the Daytona there!

My takeaway from that is I will likely need some kind of intercom system in the Daytona for passenger-driver that isn't one of those wired microphones that you stuff into your helmet then wire yourself to the other person's helmet....that wire kept getting stuck in the shifter going across my console and pulling on the microphone/earpiece with shifts into fast corners....and that was in a normal relatively quiet car...maybe there is a wireless system or I can put jacks into the transmission tunnel or somewhere the driver/passenger can plug into and not have a wire running across the transmission tunnel and near the shifter.

Finally...I am considering adding the Turkey Pan to the Weber setup. Turns out there is a shop within an hour of my house that makes them for Jim Inglese (Jim gave me their name, great guy him!)....The thought being it will hide a bunch of the wires going over the engine and I'd like to not have interference with any wires and the throttle mechanism either, but then might need to cut an intake hole in the hood. Cool. :D

I think I've gotten very good at outfitting the thing without actually accomplishing any building! :rolleyes:

Hi Hank!

I am keen to hear what you come up with for an intercom. There are of course avionics systems, complete with jacks you mention that might be fitted to helmets. These tend to be quite expensive. Without a helmet, most states disallow headsets in cars. The assumption is you are listening to loud music :-) There may be helmet oriented systems developed specifically for race cars, but those often don't provide for a passenger, or have a "keying" capability

I was interested in the turkey pan at one point, but the clearance at the rear of the intake manifold is kinda non-existent. I carved the lip of cowl just to provide clearance for some low-profile stack filters on the rear-most stacks. You may be able to modify the turkey pan to handle the rear-set position of the SBF in the coupe frame, but you will face removing throttle bodies, ..., etc. to handle any maintenance of items under the turkey pan.

With high-overlap cams, the turkey pan initially served to help contain fuel mist from being expelled into the engine bay by the stacks during the exhaust cycle. I suppose the pan also helps to direct cooler air to the stacks (if you are using some cowl induction (hole in the bonnet.). With the cam I believe you are running, the first of these benefits is negligible.

Looks cool tho!! :-)

[Windsor]

Look up the intercom setups the Baja runners use.

[LateApex]

Rob, do you have a link you can share?

[Windsor]

Here's one: https://www.ruggedradios.com/collections/intercoms

[rhk118]

Thanks fellas….been a busy summer for me….thought I’d get more of the build done but been having great weather and A LOT of visitors this summer. Been more family-focused this summer, figure once everyone is back in school this fall I’ll tear back into the coupe.

Rob - appreciate that link…time to start researching these.

[LateApex]

Have you used one of these systems Rob? I am curious about how you might have configured the system

[Windsor]

I have not, no. Bookmarked it for a future project.

[LateApex]

I am looking hard at RuggedRadios atm. See: https://www.ruggedradios.com/products/stx-stereo-high-fidelity-bluetooth-intercom

I can Bluetooth pair with my Alpine deck, which provides Apple Air Play Connectivity to my phone for hands-free telephony and any music apps. There are a variety of headset options, including helmet setups, and it pairs well to a radio and PTT for the track. Basically, I can listen to some tunes, and then let VOX handle communications in the cabin, while providing hearing protection. Seems to check most of the boxes. I figure it can be mounted in front of the PS seat on a blank space on the dash, and I can wire headset cables to the the center console or the carpeted area over the driver's left shoulder (and vice-versa on the PS).

Now the tricky part: Mounting an intercom on the PS-side of the dash places it above the PS footbox and JUST behind the firewall. Okay, a bit of free space ....

BUT, about 5" in front of that mount lies an MSD 6AL high-energy ignition box. Hmmmm. My guess is what I will mostly hear through the headset is how well my ignition system is firing.

Has anybody installed this product, or a similar product, and wrestled with EMI (Electro-Magnetic interference) and intercom sound quality and needed placement considerations??

Thx in advance for any comments!

[Skuzzy]

If EMI is a problem, you could use a grounded metal box between the source and destination to block the EMI, but you would also need a common-mode choke to help reduce EMI from impacting other grounded electrical devices.

First, check the UL/FCC ratings of the devices. They may already be protected from EMI emission and susceptibility. If they are rated FCC Class B (doubtful the MSD part is), then EMI should not be an issue. If they are Class A FCC rated then they are susceptible to EMI in both radiant and ground based form.

Best practice when deploying digital devices in a car is to create a separate ground path for low power digital electronics. Simply use an isolated ground bar and run a shielded cable from it to the battery. Attach ground from your low power devices to that. It will isolate those devices from any EMI feedback through the ground plane.

[LateApex]

Great info re: UL ratings and proper grounding!

I actually ordered a slightly different version of intercom from RuggedRadios, being the STX "Remote Head" variant of their intercom. This allows me to place the head unit anywhere (such as behind my seat; much farther away from the HEI, and place the Vol / VOX control right beside my shifter (standard rocker switch form factor). I am getting those bits via FedEx today, and will report out after I install :-)

[Skuzzy]

Great info re: UL ratings and proper grounding!

I actually ordered a slightly different version of intercom from RuggedRadios, being the STX "Remote Head" variant of their intercom. This allows me to place the head unit anywhere (such as behind my seat; much farther away from the HEI, and place the Vol / VOX control right beside my shifter (standard rocker switch form factor). I am getting those bits via FedEx today, and will report out after I install :-)

Being able to physically distance the unit from sources of EMI is good, but EMI can also travel through the ground into that remote unit. No matter where they are located, low power digital devices need clean ground. Clean power is good too, but most devices have some filtering on the power side of the electronics.

[rhk118]

Hey all - been a while. You all have been very busy and I have enjoyed following the threads when I've had time. Realize I've put working on the car down for just about a year now, which wasn't planned - but had to focus on life and work but everything and everyone are all OK, and trying to work on the car felt forced in the little free time I've had. Regardless, I will be getting back to work in the next few weeks. Next up for me are body panels, dash, front electronics and fitting seats. Hope to have that done by summer. If I can do that then can get working on the body.

Couple interesting things. A patient gave me this, she (!!!) saw the painting of the Daytona Coupe I have hanging in my office and found it on Amazon...of all places (does that really surprise anyone?). Apparently one of the original coupes was used in one of the episodes of the Monkees where they built a race car to beat the Baron Von Klutz, who drove the Klutzmobile, which was the coupe...haven't seen the episode, but I'm sure the coupe driven by the Baron lost to the Monkees (but managed to beat Ferrari haha). Here's a link if interested...in Guardsman nonetheless:

Link: "Klutzmobile" Daytona Coupe (https://www.amazon.com/Klutzmobile-Metallic-Collectible-Lightning-JLDR018-JLSP334/dp/B0CD13MZDM)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=209543&d=1737783343

When I left off transmission and engine were in, and working on a "Turkey Pan" for the stacks, but need to get the rest of the panels insulated and installed along with front wiring.

Here's some jewelry:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=209544&d=1737783343

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=209545&d=1737783343

Hope you are all well, updates in about a month. If they aren't here, someone please PM me because I need a boot to the head to get back to work on this.

[burchfieldb]

Life does have a way of slowing these things down. Glad to see you are back at it!

[M. Townsend]

Your orange/gold tape has given me an idea for frame color... it looks good with the pretty chrome.

[jgray]

Hi Hank, it's great to see you posting again. I got my engine started on Saturday. It was an epic experience for me, being a rookie, so I sent excited texts to various folks. I did not send you a text because when I had not touched my build in months, the last thing I wanted was to see progress from others. Don't get me wrong, I am happy others are making progress, it just makes me feel even worse to see it. Anyway, I am about to put a post up and will go ahead and send you a text or two!