Trigger Finger is itching

[eaglecook]

Hello boys...

Well, like many who've come before me, I've been lurking on the sidelines for years. I have been planning on building a '33 Hot Rod since about 2016. Watching videos, reading, ordering the catalog, etc. All the while, the Daytona Coupe was whispering sweet nothings in my ear. The hot rod is cool. I love those big swoopy fenders and that shiny grill sticking out front... but it just doesn't have the same primal draw that the Daytona has. So last year I was explaining to the wife how I was getting the hot rod so we could cruise together. It would be more comfortable, quieter, smoother and so on. She says "Hey, it's your car, build what you want..." I don't think it took me more than 5 seconds to decide it was the Daytona. I am probably only ever gonna build one of these so I might as well build the one I really want right!? So, the decision has been made, on to the details. That's where you guys come in.

I've read a bunch of the build threads, watched every video I could find and have the manual on order. I've got a pretty good idea of what I want, but have a couple of questions. Mostly around choices to make the car what I want it to be. Let's start there. Here is my build plan:

Coupe with IRS and Wilwood brake upgrade.

Drivetrain:
383 Stroker with EFI. (double checking with FFR to see if they sell the frame with SBC mounts. If not, I'll opt for the 347. I've been a Chevy guy my whole life and am pretty familiar with the SBC. Only Ford I've ever owned is my current F-1150)
Tremec T-56 (Want that second overdrive for highway driving, and after reading Logan's build thread, I'm convinced :-) )
Hays Street 650 Clutch
Tilton hydraulic throw-out bearing
Lakewood Bellhousing
Rear End - This is one area I need some help. I've read a lot about the different sizes and ratios and am having trouble getting clarity around the right combo. Definitely leaning into the daily driver category with an occasional auto cross day.
Exhaust is still in research mode. Want something on the more mellow side. Suggestions welcomed.

Wiring:
Infinity Box Wiring Set Up with battery drain protection
Power windows (if I can figure it out! This is the one part of the project that intimidates me).
Stereo. I know.. everyone says don't bother the car is too loud, but I gotta have my tunes. That's part of the driving fun for me.
Some sort of interesting interior lighting. Will tackle this as build progresses.

Interior:
Interior will be leather all the way. Going with a tan - caramel brownish. Don't like black interior.. never have.
AutoMeter SpecPro Gauges. I like the look and the ability to set parameters for color changes. I'm an idiot and ignore the gauges half the time... Hopefully this will help.
Undecided on seats right now. Want comfort as opposed to race seats.
Seat Belts will most likely be some kind of harness.

Exterior:
Paint will be white with blue stripes. Don't have paint codes yet, but I'm thinking one of the modern paints with a little shimmer in the white. Ford and Lexus have colors I really like.
Flirting with Torque Thrust 2 wheels. Anybody seen photos of those on a Daytona? I've seen other choices, but not those.
Continental Extreme Contact tires. I have these on my 750 Beemer and love them.


So, again, mostly a daily driver. Cruising, coffee and cars, etc. I live in the Texas Hill Country so there are tons of great roads to explore. I want it to be an easy driver with the ability to get up and go when I'm in the mood, but I'll probably never track it (maybe once at COTA, just to say I did it).

Any assistance in rear end selection would be appreciated.

I emailed with David at FFR this week and he says they are working on Jan 2023 deliveries right now. Perfect for me, so I'll be pulling the trigger in the next few days.

A little of my car history in case anyone is interested. My first car was a VW Rabbit. Don't remember the model year, but I'd guess it was a '77 or '78. It lasted less than a month before the radiator failed and my dad made the used car salesman give us our money back. Got a GMC Sprint to replace that. Just a poor man's El Camino, but it was fun. Then it was a 77 Monte Carlo with swivel bucket seats. I loved that car! I thought is was the coolest thing to spin those seats and step out. Why doesn't someone do that nowdays?.. sure make getting out of these SUV's a lot easier. Then I moved on to a '68 Camaro. It had a 327 and a TH350 trans. I kept that car for about 5 years and sold it when I got married. I know, I know... Had a '93 Chevy pick up, Mitsubishi 3000 GT, '84 Chevy window van, Dodge duelly with a Cummins Diesel, classic Mini Cooper (the only car I regret getting rid of), BMW Z3, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, and now have the F-150 and a BMW 750li with M package (Twin turbo V8). I probably forgot a few, and didn't even mention all the motorcyles, but I'm hoping the Dayton ends up at the top of this heap.

Looking forward to hearing from you guys, and will get a build thread going when the kit arrives.

[Ltngdrvr]

Well, I think it is sacrilegious to install anything but a Ford engine in these cars that are patterned after such a historic automotive icon, that originally came with Ford engines in them.
Air conditioning will be an absolute must have, especially in Texas, and adding to that, supremely important to get as much heat insulation surrounding the passenger compartment as you can squeeze in.
And, again, owing to their Icon status, I think they look strange with anything but wheels like came on original Cobra's back in the day, so Torque Thrust wheels would look out of place.
Power windows in the Type 65 are a big issue, either you fabricate your own, which is a really big job, or you shell out big bucks for the Forma Cars kit.
Rear gearing is easy, pretty easy to find complete IRS axle assemblies with 3.55 gears in salvage yards, you can also find some 3.73 axles, but they cost a lot more usually. Either ratio will work well.

Now, all of your wants and desires for the car would be much more at home in the '33 Hot Rod, or the Speedstar Coupe, and each of those cars has power window kits available and made to work directly from FFR. And, they will be an easier overall build as well.

But, in the end, it's your car, do what you please

[GoDadGo]

Hey Mr. Poultry Griller,

Build what you want; however, understand that if you decide to go off with a Small Block Chevy you will be on your own sorting out things like engine mounts, transmission mount, driveshaft and headers. If you have your heart set on running a 383 SBC it can be done with a little fabrication and a lot of perseverance.

On a Dark Side Note, have you considered going with an LS because it is a platform supported by Factory Five? If you want crazy power and the look of a Ford you can have that too with the engine shown below:

https://paceperformance.com/LS3-533-HP-Pace-Performance-Crate-Engine-Carbureted-with-HEI-As-Cast-Valve-Covers-GMP-19370413-CHX.html

If you don't already have an engine and transmission then consider either going with a Ford since it is your best and easiest cookie cutter option, but if you come over to the Dark Side, the LS is the only way to go. Just invest in a good oil pan no matter what engine you go with.

Good Luck & Welcome Aboard!

Steve (aka: Go-Dad-Go or Heyoka)
https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-new/customer-steve-l-graduates-his-mk4-roadster/

[CaptB]

PULL IT! Except the non-Ford engine part!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Put in whatever engine you like. The car is a Factory Five, not a Ford.

Remember how easy it was to get in or out of the car with those GM swivel buckets? You’ll find the Coupe to be the exact polar opposite :D

Jeff

[eaglecook]

Put in whatever engine you like. The car is a Factory Five, not a Ford.

Remember how easy it was to get in or out of the car with those GM swivel buckets? You’ll find the Coupe to be the exact polar opposite :D

Jeff

Haha,.. yea, I expect the contortion exercise getting in and out, but willing to deal with it. As far as putting in a SBC, I'd do it in a heartbeat but as FFR doesn't support that, It's more hassle to me than it's worth. I knew from reading the threads that they probably didn't support that option, but wanted to double check with them as things do change all the time. Got an email back that no, in fact they still don't support it, so I'll head over to the Blue Oval camp and just learn to deal with it. Like Steve said above, it the simplest cookie cutter option and I'm in this for the fun. I don't have the knowledge or skills to tackle the SBC route.

I know there are purists out there and I respect that outlook, but I've never been that. Always wanted to get things the way I like them. I just don't like those darn Halibrand wheels. I think they are ugly and don't look good on the car, but again, that's just me.

[eaglecook]

Thanks Steve. I think I'll go Ford. I love the power and reliability of the Coyote, but how the heck do you make one of those look good when you lift the hood?

That LS3 has more power than I want (you don't hear that too often do you?.. ) I really want to stick to that 400HP range, maybe 450 but not more. My Range Rover was 500HP and that thing hauled.. it was 6000lb!! I can't imagine how ridiculous that would be in a 2500lb car.

Thanks for the warm welcome, I'm sure I'll be hitting you up for info as things progress.

[eaglecook]

Thanks Ltngdrvr. I respect the purist outlook, but have never really been that myself. Looks like I'll need to compromise though and get the Ford motor... but I'm not putting Halibrands on.. haha,.. I just don't like them.

I hear you on the power windows. Like I said, that is the one part of the build that I'm worried about. I may end up ditching that idea as I learn more. I am trying to do as much of the build as I can so I don't want to farm any of it out if I can manage.

Thanks.

Doug

[Gbeck]

It's your car. Build it the way you want it!

I'm probably as much in love with the Cobra Daytona Coupe and the legend as anybody. I have immense respect for those building replicas of the original six; there are some amazing examples out there, including one by a close friend and his son.

I decided early on that I was building a road trip car, not a tribute. Overall specs; a Gen 2 Coyote from a Mustang (not much in common with the SBF 289 except for the blue oval), TKO 600, T-bird IRS (before the Mustang IRS was available), 3.55 gears, a Torsen diff, AC, under car exhaust, power windows (crazy hard to do), loads of heat and sound insulation and lots of other mods. It's on the road but still a work in progress. There's a build thread "Building Coupe 674" on the other forum if you want the gory details.

Enjoy your build!

[Ltngdrvr]

Thanks Steve. I think I'll go Ford. I love the power and reliability of the Coyote, but how the heck do you make one of those look good when you lift the hood?



Gen 1 and 2 Coyote is fairly easy to dress up, the Gen 3 is an issue because the nice looking coil covers won't fit because of the high pressure DI pump and lines.
Cost-wise, really pretty close to a wash between a new 347 crate engine and a good used low mile Gen 1 or 2 Coyote.

[Jeff Kleiner]

..,but I'm not putting Halibrands on.. haha,.. I just don't like them…


Rob Burton has 15” Torque Thrusts on his Gen1 Coupe. Downside is that high performance 15” tires are virtually nonexistent.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166658&d=1652475244

Jeff

166658

[David Williamson]

I went for the old school look with mine under the hood, 363 Dart block (Ford 302 based dimensions) with Fitch injection that looks just like a carb. Skip the tunes you will never hear them once the engine is running past idle.
We use noise cancelling head sets to talk to each other and some have found blue tooth head sets that can stream tunes. The car is loud even with Boig quiet pipes. Get AC you will need it. Removable steering wheel is recommended to make getting in and out of the car a little easier. Not sold on the 6 speed tranny, the over drive on the 5 speed with 3.55 gears give just over 2000 rpm at 70 and 4th gear is great for passing, my car will go from 55 to 100 going around 1 car just using 4th gear.
David W

[Ltngdrvr]

Rob Burton has 15” Torque Thrusts on his Gen1 Coupe. Downside is that high performance 15” tires are virtually nonexistent.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166658&d=1652475244

Jeff

166658

American Racing makes Torque Thrust wheels in almost any size you can imagine up through 22's IIRC, and their custom shop can do any offset you want.
So, fitment and good performance tires are no issue there, just doesn't look right to me.

[edwardb]

Come on in, the water's fine! We love our Gen 3 Coupe. Hopefully you will pull the trigger on one. This is mentioned frequently, but don't feel like you have to answer every question before placing your order. The initial order and deposit gets you into the production schedule. But you can make changes while waiting. They will send you a letter asking for final order review (and payment!) several weeks before your production date. Then things are locked in.

Couple comments about your build plan/ideas:

Really like the T-56 in ours. In other builds, I've had a TKO with the 0.64 5th gear and another with the 0.82 5th gear. Each had its plusses and minuses. With the T-56 you get both which is very nice. I find I use 5th (0.80) for lower speed cruising on 2-lane roads, country lanes, etc. Then 6th (0.63) for highway cruising at higher speeds. If going with a 5-speed like the TKO (now TKX), I'd recommend the higher ratio for the final drive. But that leaves a somewhat large gap between 4th and 5th. The T-56 eliminates that. It's a nice combination that I like a lot. Plus the T-56 fits into the Gen 3 Coupe quite easily. Not tight or modifications required like in the Roadster.

Listen to what others are saying about the noise level in the Coupe. It is what it is. I have sort of quieter pipes on mine (Gas-N) and it's very heavily insulated. Still loud and ear protection is mandatory. I don't care what kind of sound system were installed, it would have to be far too loud to be heard and the combined sound level would be crazy and hard on your ears. This year I'm trying noise canceling wireless earbud headphones in mine (Sony WF-1000XM4) and I'm very pleased at how well they work to control the noise level. I don't care to listen to tunes while I drive, but could easily play them from my phone with Bluetooth. Suggest you consider something like that versus an external system.

Either 3.55 or 3.73 diff gears will work with the T-56. I chose 3.73 for mine. Partly because I like how the T-56 ratios fit with it (https://www.tremec.com/calculadora.php) but also because I wanted a Torsen setup and that was the only ratio it came in at the time. That's changed, so other options possible now.

The Forma-Cars roll-down window setup looks very nice. But pricey. Personally (strictly my own opinion) this subject gets way too much attention. The car is loud, as discussed, and hot even on mildly warm days. We keep ours closed up and the A/C running a high percentage of the time we're using it. Even with roll-down windows, they would be up 99% of the time. We have the FF supplied removable window kit in ours. Had it off once. Better half didn't like it (I didn't either...) and hasn't been out since. Same with the blocking panels in the quarter window scoops. FWIW

Continental Extreme Contact tires get good reviews. Don't see what diameter wheels you're considering. But check the sizes. Not sure they come wide enough.

Good luck.

[eaglecook]

I Skip the tunes you will never hear them once the engine is running past idle.
We use noise cancelling head sets to talk to each other and some have found blue tooth head sets that can stream tunes. The car is loud even with Boig quiet pipes. Get AC you will need it.
David W

Thanks David. Seems to be to consensus. I'll have to rethink based on the wisdom of this group.

[eaglecook]

Either 3.55 or 3.73 diff gears will work with the T-56. I chose 3.73 for mine. Partly because I like how the T-56 ratios fit with it (https://www.tremec.com/calculadora.php) but also because I wanted a Torsen setup and that was the only ratio it came in at the time. That's changed, so other options possible now.

. Even with roll-down windows, they would be up 99% of the time. We have the FF supplied removable window kit in ours. Had it off once. Better half didn't like it (I didn't either...) and hasn't been out since. Same with the blocking panels in the quarter window scoops. FWIW

Continental Extreme Contact tires get good reviews. Don't see what diameter wheels you're considering. But check the sizes. Not sure they come wide enough.

Good luck.

Thanks Edwardb. Your point about the windows being up 90% of the time is the most valid argument I've heard against the power or roll up window option. I know my driving habits, and when I lived in Colorado, much of the time windows were down enjoying the crisp mountain air.. not quite the same here in TX.. The only thing crisp about the air around here is the smell of BBQ so I am sure I would also have the windows up most of the time. That makes the hassle not really worth it.

As far as the tires. I'll choose something when I get to that stage. If I can get those in the correct size, I will, but I'm not opposed to any of the common choices I've seen on these threads.

[eaglecook]

Gen 1 and 2 Coyote is fairly easy to dress up, the Gen 3 is an issue because the nice looking coil covers won't fit because of the high pressure DI pump and lines.
Cost-wise, really pretty close to a wash between a new 347 crate engine and a good used low mile Gen 1 or 2 Coyote.

I'm just unfamiliar with the whole Ford line-up. What are the major differences between the generations?

[edwardb]

I'm just unfamiliar with the whole Ford line-up. What are the major differences between the generations?

https://lmr.com/products/differences-between-mustang-5-0-coyote-engines. If you're talking new crate motors, it's a moot point. Gen 1 and Gen 2 versions have been out of production for some years and not available. Only Gen 3. If you're talking salvage, more options but Gen 1's are getting a little older now. Gen 2's are a possible option, and lots of Gen 3's out there. Unless you're going aftermarket or trying something on your own, e.g. with the stock Mustang electronics (maybe not recommended if you're not experienced) the Coyote crate motor electronics package is still available as I understand for the Gen 2 and of course for the current Gen 3. Just subject to supply chain limitations like many automotive electronic components. Some are dressing up the Gen 3 with a Gen 1 cover. Works I guess but not my personal choice. I modified the Gen 3 cover for my Coupe with a Gen 3 Coyote crate. Certainly not old school but I like it.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ab234/edwardb123/IMG_1721(1).jpg?width=590&height=370&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/a/186cc666-68d0-4881-b53c-af005ffe3552/p/9c559ba4-fe78-4089-85ec-a0ad609c06be)

[Logan]

Hey I got a shout-out, cool! My car is far from finished, but I still like the T56 Magnum and am glad I went with it. The high-rpm capability was an important factor for me, spinning my Gen3 Coyote up to 8,500+ rpm.

Echoing others comments, I use a 3.73 rear axle but 3.55 is also fine for your plans. If you care about limited slip differentials, you may consider the Torsen equipped IRS. Ford power is the obvious choice for engine, either pushrod or Coyote. If Coyote, strongly recommend the Gen3.

Don't bother with power windows if you're going to run AC and just leave the windows up all the time anyway. Unless you regularly find yourself in drive-thrus where a window that rolls down would be beneficial such as banks, fast food, cash toll booths, parking garages, etc. But for most needs, there are ways to get around the window issue. Either using the slider window (of the FFR fixed plexiglass variety) or simply opening the door to interact.

I love tan interiors, and would agree that the all too common black is not my first choice. I'm thinking light gray for my car, but I haven't committed yet. For seats, you can delete the kit seats for a credit from FFR, and order some Corbeau seats or other aftermarket brand you like that is comfy and fits the car.

Wheels and tires are one of my more involved areas. In fact, I created a repository with all kinds of data for the Gen3 Coupe. Link below. If you find some Torque Thrust wheels, I can help go over their specs and see what it will take to make them fit along with the tires you're looking at. Conti ECS is a good tire, but will need to dive into sizing and specs.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?41600-The-Daytona-Wheel-and-Tire-Repository

Place your order ASAP, to get on the books! Any changes you need to make can still happen until the specific date they'll tell you.

[eaglecook]

Place your order ASAP, to get on the books! Any changes you need to make can still happen until the specific date they'll tell you.

Hey guys, I've been off the forum for a few days. I needed to get some perspective based upon some of the things you guys mentioned. So, jumped on the motorcycle and took a 3 day trip to clear my head and do some soul searching. Thanks to all of your honest comments, I think I've decided to pass on the coupe and go back to my original plan of the '33. I do love the coupe, but for what I want to do with my new toy I think the Hot Rod is a better choice. I can stick with the SBC power that I want, get options of power windows easily, not loose any more of my hearing just driving around, and generally be a bit more comfortable cruising. I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for that wild beast that is the Daytona, but at this point, I'm worried that I'd not be happy with the usage of the car and I don't want that.

I do want to say a serious thank you to you guys. I much prefer the honesty of your opinions to the "support" one can get in other networks. Everything you guys said I think I already knew, but hearing it just before making the purchase some how rang a little more truly in my ears and I do feel much more comfortable after deliberating on it.

I'll head over to the '33 pages and get things started there. I hope to see some of you around at some events.. I'll come drool over your machines! Oh, and Logan, yes, I'll stick with the T-56 mated up to that 383 Stroker. I know I'll love it. :-)

[Ltngdrvr]

I believe you have made a sound decision.
The only other modification to your plan, that you might want to consider, would be to think about the Speedstar Coupe.

[eaglecook]

Thanks Ltngdrvr, but I don't like the shape of that car. Looks too much like a Prowler to me. :p

[Ltngdrvr]

Thanks Ltngdrvr, but I don't like the shape of that car. Looks too much like a Prowler to me. :p

Prowler is a roadster, Speedstar is a coupe.
Coupe version of the 33 hot rod is a removable roof section, always looked a little odd to me, now if you build it as a roadster it is much better looking.