QUIETER?? side exhaust pipes swap !?

[Fordguy]

I'm wondering what owners of MK4's have done to replace the FFR supplied side pipes for a quieter sound? I will be installing a high compression motor and will need all the help I can get to keep the noise level manageable. What options are there from other suppliers?
thanks
Fordguy

[Fman]

Gas ‘n touring pipes are quite a bit quieter than the FFR pipes. Engine also plays a factor, I’ve been happy with the Gas n touring not crazy loud but enough to let you know there is a 427 under the hood.

https://www.gas-n.com/collections/side-pipes/products/factory-five-polished-stainless-steel-sidepipes

[Jim1855]

A friend came over with his Mk3, 5.0 EFI on Saturday. He'd just swapped to Gas-N SS sidepipes and headers. Looks and sounds great, much quieter at idle and nice when leaving. We could talk when he was idling in the driveway without raising voices.
Jim

[JohnK]

The most frequently discussed options are the Gas-N pipes and Boig Quiet Pipes. Gas-N now offers three different cores, depending on how loud or quiet you want the car to be. I have their "standard" pipes with a gen2 coyote and am happy with the sound. There are lots of discussions on these options, as well as videos and sound clips, if you search the forum. All of these, regardless of their sound levels, sound better than the FFR pipes, IMO.

[GoDadGo]

We just wear Ear Plugs and it solves the problem.

https://www.facebook.com/dlarmann/videos/984372202199305

[madkow70]

I have my MK4 with 427 and I went with Gas-n.
I drive it all the time (local & highway), and I really like Gas-n's noise level.
By no means it's quiet. People know when I'm coming around the block.
but the last bit of sting is def not there to make these "livable"
I highly endorse it. ...oh, and Gas-n's George's customer support is simply OUTSTANDING!

[Fman]

Fordguy, if you do go and listen to someone’s side pipes make sure they have the same engine. Different engines will play a big factor on how these cars sound. I think it also takes a good hour of driving in one of these cars to truly get a sense of how your ears tolerate them. Even with the touring pipes I still put in ear plugs on longer drives.

[tonywy]

If anyone is getting rid of their painted or coated FFR pipes please let me know. Looking for a pair to experiment with.

[yahrt]

I have a set of FFR pipes that I am planning to sell, but they are chrome, Tim

[john42]

If anyone is getting rid of their painted or coated FFR pipes please let me know. Looking for a pair to experiment with.

I want to switch to Gas'n pipes really bad. The $$$ is holding me up so far. Maybe a project for this Winter. Once I do, I'd have a set of FFR pipes that would be a good experiment set. They are dented in a few places (small door ding like dents). The coating (what's left it of it) is in rough shape. Otherwise they function as per normal..

[Madfor67]

I have Boig quiet sidepipes. I think Boig is the quietest sidepipes since they are baffled. Startups are definitely quieter and has less bark, but the finish quality isn’t as good as Gas-n. Also, Mr. Boig passed away (RIP), so I’m not sure if sidepipes are still offered for sale.

[Anonymoose]

I will be ordering GAS-N headers and pipes when I get around to that part of the build. I removed the FFR headers and pipes from my order so I wouldn’t have an option, plus it saved a bit taking those off. Still debating on regular vs touring pipes but I think I’ll go with regular based on the clips I’ve seen.

[CaptB]

I will be ordering GAS-N headers and pipes when I get around to that part of the build. I removed the FFR headers and pipes from my order so I wouldn’t have an option, plus it saved a bit taking those off. Still debating on regular vs touring pipes but I think I’ll go with regular based on the clips I’ve seen.

Saved???!!!!!! :-)

[Anonymoose]

Saved???!!!!!! :-)

Haha fair enough, saved me some…for now!

[brewha]

I have a 331 high compression engine also. It is loud compared to any 351 cars I have parked next too. I inserted cc inserts without the caps and it made a big difference. I still may have the caps welded on. You can also insert high temp steel wool in the cc inserts to quiet them down even more. I haven’t heard my car for some time as it’s been at the painter forever…..The cc inserts can be rubber hammered in to the ends of the pipes and are then held in with a single stainless rivet.
It may be an option to try before shelling out the big bucks for new pipes.
Good luck

[JB in NOVA]

Here's some scientific-ish data for you to consider:

I just completed my 500-mile maintenance, which included changing the engine oil and filter, checking the differential fluid, re-lubricating everything, and carefully inspecting all the wear components. Everything looks good! While I was at it, I replaced my FFR standard side pipes with GAS-N touring pipes. (This was at the urging of my wife). I figured I would share my experience with the forum. First, the GAS-N pipes are beautiful – very well made, and they arrived in perfect condition. One thing I noticed is that they are several inches longer than the FFR standard side pipes, as you can see here:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156633&d=1637440905

I knew replacing the side pipes on an already-completed car might be challenging, and it was. The passenger side went in with no problems at all – I just needed a single flat spacer from Breeze. The driver’s side was a major headache, but I eventually got it done after several orders from Mark Reynolds’ Spacer and Wedge Emporium. Georgie at GAS-N was very helpful during this process and even offered to fabricate a custom collector for me. But I ended up not needing it.

One of the things I was interested in finding out is how much quieter are the GAS-N pipes? My son is a graduate student studying acoustic technology, so I asked him to help me set up an experiment. Using a Mengshen HT-80A Decibel Sound Level Meter, we took measurements with both sets of sidepipes installed, taking three measurements each at 5 feet and 10 feet, left and right side, at idle and at 2000 RPM:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156634&d=1637440905

We averaged the results, which are shown here:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156635&d=1637440905

At idle, the GAS-N pipes are 7.85 dB quieter than the FFR pipes, and at 2000 RPM, they are 4.8 dB quieter. This might not seem like a lot, but it is. Because decibels are measured on a logarithmic scale, to compare two different decibel measurements x and y, you end up comparing 10^(x/10) to 10^(y/10). (Confession: I had to watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNmdIHUnF-s because I couldn’t remember how to do the math).

When I did the math, I found that the sound intensity of the GAS-N touring pipes is 16.4% of the FFR pipes at idle, and 33.1% of the FFR pipes at 2000 RPM. Put differently, the FFR side pipes are 6 times louder than the GAS-N touring pipes at idle, and 3 times louder than the GAS-N pipes at 2000 RPM. That’s quite a difference!

#9822 is back on the road, and a lot quieter than before!

[Alex_V]

I wonder how much HP do you give up with Gas-n-go touring pipes. 10db difference is huge. Any info on that?

[Fordguy]

Good question?
With 500/530 power, I'm not concerned about losing a few HP and Ft/lb
Just need the car to be enjoyable to drive (and to the wife)

[Lidodrip]

I will be ordering GAS-N headers and pipes when I get around to that part of the build. I removed the FFR headers and pipes from my order so I wouldn’t have an option, plus it saved a bit taking those off. Still debating on regular vs touring pipes but I think I’ll go with regular based on the clips I’ve seen.

I ordered Gas-N side pipes, should be getting them this month. When I spoke with Georgie, he said it has been a challenge getting stainless steel pipe. Wait time for side pipes is 10-12 weeks.

[tonywy]

Still in the market for a painted/uncoated set.

[Theshandman]

Still in the market for a painted/uncoated set.

Hey Tony. I just received my FFR side pipes (from FFR) that have been MIA for 10 months. Haven't opened the box yet because I already have a set of GAS-N Touring pipes that look great. So- I may be able to let you have 'em, after I look at 'em? I don't recall what FFR does to the pipes for the complete kit. Once I see 'em, I'll let ya know and we can decide. Cool?
Art

[GTBradley]

If anyone is getting rid of their painted or coated FFR pipes please let me know. Looking for a pair to experiment with.

I have tried experimenting with changing the volume while keeping good sound and it takes some time to get it right. I made mine so I can switch back and forth from original to muffled as needed too.

I wrote it up if you're interested in what I did (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30668-GTBradley-s-build&p=491400&viewfull=1#post491400).

[tonywy]

Hey Tony. I just received my FFR side pipes (from FFR) that have been MIA for 10 months. Haven't opened the box yet because I already have a set of GAS-N Touring pipes that look great. So- I may be able to let you have 'em, after I look at 'em? I don't recall what FFR does to the pipes for the complete kit. Once I see 'em, I'll let ya know and we can decide. Cool?
Art

Art, thank you, looking forward to hearing from you.

[john42]

I have tried experimenting with changing the volume while keeping good sound and it takes some time to get it right. I made mine so I can switch back and forth from original to muffled as needed too.

I wrote it up if you're interested in what I did (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30668-GTBradley-s-build&p=491400&viewfull=1#post491400).

For the clamp is it the 3.5 inch clamp or the 4 inch clamp?

[GTBradley]

For the clamp is it the 3.5 inch clamp or the 4 inch clamp?
It is the 3.5"

[SJDave]

The problem with retirement is that you have too much time to go WAY down a rabbit hole!

I like to track my car but most of the racetracks in northern California have over the last 15 years made it almost impossible for factory performance cars to meet the sound levels. So with FFR stainless pipes not even close to passing at Laguna Seca (92 dba) or Sonoma (95 dba). A few guys on this forum had tried taking the Dynatek Augur inserts and grinding the OD down a bit then cutting them and inserting a spring in the center so that they could be snaked in the 3" turned outlet. So I thought heck, what if I cut the pipes in the 4" OD area, remove the 2" OD perfed baffle and install a 3" perfed baffle with the option to put (2) augers in each sidepipe. Going to 3" meant I didn't have to modify the auger OD; just polish up the edges on a scotchbriite abrasive grinding wheel so they wouldn't catch as I screwed them into the baffle. I tried a 1/4" steel mesh screen first as my baffle, but the ceramic wool hi temp packing got torn up in 6 months being exposed to the hot gases swirling thru. So I replaced them with a Harley Davidson baffle I bought on line that looks essentially like the FFR baffle relative to hole sizes and open area. (https://www.denniskirk.com/la-choppers/24-in-universal-baffle-tubing-3-in-o-d-la-1230-24.p4406865.prd/4406865.sku) I also wrapped that new baffle with woven stainless steel wool that Dennis Kirk supplies also and then my ceramic wool. I used aluminum "hi temp duct" tape from 3M to wrap the outside of the wool so it would slide in easier. Used VIBRANT Stainless Steel turbo induction clamps and MIG welded them to the 4" ends. Installed Drummer Mike heat shields (that I slotted) to cover the clamps, fits perfectly.

With two Augers the sound dropped 6 dba measured from the side 50 ' away, the distance to the track microphones. I was sound checked at 99 dba before, after the Augers I sound checked at 94 at Laguna. So still no full throttle possible but backing off for a few seconds passing the mics works. My engine is a 347 built by Gromm Racing in San Jose, dyno'd at 415 HP at rear tires, 7000 rpm redline. With two Augers power drops off quickly at 5700 rpm, essentially a 1000 rpm drop. With one auger power drops off at 6300 rpm. So one auger for Sonoma and two augers for Laguna.

This mod takes quit a bit of shop equipment and is not cheap, about $250 in parts plus the Heat Shields if you want to conceal the clamps.

About 10k miles on it since I re-did the packing with the new baffles and stainless mesh under the ceramic wool. Holding up well.

[john42]

I have tried experimenting with changing the volume while keeping good sound and it takes some time to get it right. I made mine so I can switch back and forth from original to muffled as needed too.

I wrote it up if you're interested in what I did (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30668-GTBradley-s-build&p=491400&viewfull=1#post491400).

I completed this mod last night and drove around quite a bit today. It certainly made the car quieter, so I think I'm good for the track next weekend where the db requirements are no > 94db @ 50 feet. It did add a low raspy staggered hisssss sound to the mix which I'm not a fan of. I'm debating how much $$$ I want to keep spending making mods vs just saving and buying Gas'n pipes in the fall.

[Anonymoose]

I ordered Gas-N side pipes, should be getting them this month. When I spoke with Georgie, he said it has been a challenge getting stainless steel pipe. Wait time for side pipes is 10-12 weeks.

This is great info, thanks for the heads up. I’ll plan ordering it in advance now.

[GTBradley]

I gave up on worrying about $$$ wasted on R&D a while ago:o. It turns out for me at least, that happiness lies in the details.

[CP82AERO]

Has anyone--to save some $$--modified their FFR side pipes, i.e. cutting out the muffler section and welding in a "better" one? I have Gas-n headers on order for my 351/427, (I deleted the FFR headers from my order at the time but kept the side pipes) but would sure like to use my "free" side pipes but improved--better sound, lower restriction--like the Gas-n side pipes. They're bare steel and so my costs would be related to sourcing appropriate mufflers, perhaps a bit longer, welding, and then ceramic coat.

[CP82AERO]

...and i'm assuming the FFR pipes would mate to the Gas-n headers without issue.
Thanks.

[Skip]

Possibly Classic Chambered? http://www.classicchambered.com/classic/products.html#cobra

Edit: Reply to post #30

[Theshandman]

Art, thank you, looking forward to hearing from you.

Hey Tony. Sorry for the delay- was outta town for a while... I just opened the box with the side pipes from F5 and they are polished chrome it appears and which from what I gather are not what you are looking for. So, I guess I'll hang on to 'em in the event I ever decide I want more sonic bite (for whatever reason) than what the GAS-N Touring pipes offer.
:cool:
Art

[Hoooper]

Has anyone--to save some $$--modified their FFR side pipes, i.e. cutting out the muffler section and welding in a "better" one? I have Gas-n headers on order for my 351/427, (I deleted the FFR headers from my order at the time but kept the side pipes) but would sure like to use my "free" side pipes but improved--better sound, lower restriction--like the Gas-n side pipes. They're bare steel and so my costs would be related to sourcing appropriate mufflers, perhaps a bit longer, welding, and then ceramic coat.


Possibly Classic Chambered? http://www.classicchambered.com/classic/products.html#cobra

Edit: Reply to post #30

Thats what I did. I bought a set of classic chambered 3" ID, 28"L, packed pipes. It takes some work to get them in place of the FFR muffler section. I have no sound comparison so I have no idea if its is quieter or not since I never used the FFR muffler section, but it is definitely real loud.

[CP82AERO]

Thats what I did. I bought a set of classic chambered 3" ID, 28"L, packed pipes. It takes some work to get them in place of the FFR muffler section. I have no sound comparison so I have no idea if its is quieter or not since I never used the FFR muffler section, but it is definitely real loud.

Thanks.--do you like the sound? And did you angle the exits down at all? Yes; loud is relative!

[Hoooper]

Thanks.--do you like the sound? And did you angle the exits down at all? Yes; loud is relative!

Yeah, sounds as good as any non crossover exhaust on a cross-plane crank is gonna sound. No weird raspy or empty sounds like you might get with some mufflers. I did turn the exits down a bit.

[tonywy]

Hey Tony. Sorry for the delay- was outta town for a while... I just opened the box with the side pipes from F5 and they are polished chrome it appears and which from what I gather are not what you are looking for. So, I guess I'll hang on to 'em in the event I ever decide I want more sonic bite (for whatever reason) than what the GAS-N Touring pipes offer.
:cool:
Art

Thx Art.

[mburger]

I was using FFR stainless pipes on my 10:1 347 and it became too loud on my annoyance meter. After installing my premium top, it seemed to trap and amplify the sound, so I bought Boig’s quiet pipes. Working with Bob was enjoyable and he was a perfectionist. I was surprised at how much quieter they were over the FFR pipes. I began thinking they were too quiet! The longer I ran them, the more I missed the in your face sound. Then, I had my much documented engine issue and I had a lot of time to think about what I wanted to do once the engine out came back. Those of you who are familiar with my paint scheme know it’s a bit in your face. So when the engine went back in, Boig’s pipes didn’t. I currently have no plans to sell them and who knows, maybe they’ll go back on the car one day. What I’ve been doing is opening slightly the doors on my hearing aids to power them off which always makes for a very quiet world. Now, I hear the drone of the engine and other sounds you’d want to hear while driving.

[Fman]

I was using FFR stainless pipes on my 10:1 347 and it became too loud on my annoyance meter. After installing my premium top, it seemed to trap and amplify the sound, so I bought Boig’s quiet pipes. Working with Bob was enjoyable and he was a perfectionist. I was surprised at how much quieter they were over the FFR pipes. I began thinking they were too quiet! The longer I ran them, the more I missed the in your face sound. Then, I had my much documented engine issue and I had a lot of time to think about what I wanted to do once the engine out came back. Those of you who are familiar with my paint scheme know it’s a bit in your face. So when the engine went back in, Boig’s pipes didn’t. I currently have no plans to sell them and who knows, maybe they’ll go back on the car one day. What I’ve been doing is opening slightly the doors on my hearing aids to power them off which always makes for a very quiet world. Now, I hear the drone of the engine and other sounds you’d want to hear while driving.

Mark, Did you ever test the DB ratings on the Boig pipes? I feel like the Gas 'n touring pipes are just about perfect, loud enough but not ear drum blowing. When you get on it over 3k RPMs they definitely let you know there is a pushrod engine under the hood.

[mburger]

Mark, Did you ever test the DB ratings on the Boig pipes? I feel like the Gas 'n touring pipes are just about perfect, loud enough but not ear drum blowing. When you get on it over 3k RPMs they definitely let you know there is a pushrod engine under the hood.

I never did any DB rating testing. The startup volume is significantly reduced and yes I agree, once you get into the cam’s happy zone, there’s no mistaking you’re there.

[thwrightstuff]

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I have an issue I have not been able to find any information on. I love my standard Gas N pipes, but they DRONE like crazy!! The quality of these pipes is excellent and I love the volume of the pipes, but at cruising speeds, they drone and it’s the only reason why I need to wear earplugs, but even those done help much. I know the touring pipes are quieter, but again volume isn’t the problem, it’s the resonating frequencies that is the issue. I’m concerned a touring pipe upgrade won’t fix the issue.

Does anyone else have this issue??

[Skip]

Years ago the Flowmaster 30” Slimlines were getting attention but Flowmaster discontinued those mufflers. Perhaps some enterprising individual will reverse engineer the Slimlines and make bank.

[rkl20678]

Awesome test and results. Having real data is the best way to make decisions. Also very nice of you to clarify the decibel scale, many would not have worked in that. I work with big rockets so I get it.

[JMD]

Love my Gas N touring pipes, but they do restrict the engine and I lost some power over 4500 rpm...but for a sound I can live with, it's worth it.

[Blitzboy54]

Possibly Classic Chambered? http://www.classicchambered.com/classic/products.html#cobra

Edit: Reply to post #30

This is what I am doing on my second build. I welded in the 2.5 inch with packing. They are 2 inches longer. I am really looking forward to hearing them.