Tesla Powered 33 Hot Rod

[BradC]

All bus bars on for the front pack!! All the sparks are still in the batteries and no smell of singed flesh lingering in the garage. I'll call that a success. The voltages of all the BMS leads register correctly and total box voltage measures about 225V as expected.

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The other underbody pack is all assembled and wired too. The front box has to go in first but Im really close to getting them all in and ready to power up the BMS controller. It connects to a PC and will store the cell voltage limits, temperature limits, control cell balancing, and communicate with the motor controller and charger.

Got my last backordered part from FFR yesterday too - a cable for the electric power steering. All I'm missing from stuff I've already ordered now is the cable from the wall AC source plug to the chager. It was missing, and EV West has been trying to get a replacement from Elcon forever now. Not looking good so far. It's not a huge deal for now but I won't be able to charge the packs until I have it.

[BradC]

The plan for installing the heavy front pack is to use my lift. I'll hoise it up and roll the car under it. I bought two of these engine support bars that will straddle the lift rails - one for the front of the box and one for the rear. I'll be able to fine tune the tilt too. I was going to make some cross bars but by the time I bought steel, chain, hardware, and spent the time welding it together it was cheaper to just buy two of these. They are only $70 on Amazon. Easier and faster wins out!

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[33fromSD]

4-Post lifts are so versatile for things like this. Your plan is a good one. I used my 4 post lift to set my assembled box on my 55 F100 pickup I'm building, worked great!! I've used it many times to lift other things too.

Jim

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[BradC]

Yep! Same idea. The lift was one of the better purchases I've made. I was half way done with my 68 Camaro when I finally decided to get one. Should have had it before I even started the thing.

I like that color. Gonna be a nice one.

[FFRWRX]

Who do you think would sue me first?? Haha...

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(Dave, Elon - I'm just messing around...)

I make custom car badges. Want me to make you one?

Rick

[BradC]

I can make them too, but thank you for the offer! I may end up doing that somewhere on the car. The more I look at it the more I like it.

[BradC]

All battery boxes are in and hooked up, and I'm getting the expected 325V at the end leads. The lift bars worked out perfect for the front install. The four corner adjustability made it super easy to drop the box in place. I'll work on getting the BMS powered up and connected to a PC today. Hopefully that all works well.

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Decided to set the body back on to check again where I have space to mount things and route lines.

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Heaed off to SEMA this week!! Should be fun. I get the chance to go now and then as a sort of honorary employee of a friend who owns a shop.

[BradC]

I got the BMS powered up and reading out to a PC. The cell voltages all show correctly but the temperature sensors show as shorted. I read the manual closer and it hit me that it mentions 'thermistors' for temp sensors - EV West told me to get Type K thermocouples and even sent me the Amazon link. Those are two different animals. Man, if I have to take all the packs back apart to install thermistors that will royally suck. I'll call EV West tomorrow but this isn't looking good. Ugh..

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[Just 1 More]

I'm curious of the weight differential between the battery packs and an engine. ANy idea on the difference?

[BradC]

I'm curious of the weight differential between the battery packs and an engine. ANy idea on the difference?

The front box weighs about 450lb with I would think pretty similar weight distribution to a gas engine - maybe slightly lower CG because I have packs down where there would normally be a somewhat hollow oil pan. The two boxes under the floor are about 100lb each located similar front to back with where a transmission would be, but out wider. The motor in the rear is about 200lb and slightly forward of where the rear diff would be on the IRS setup. Heavier than a rear diff, but then I have no fuel tank up higher. So overall I think it will be maybe ~100-200lb heavier than a normal build but the final cg is probably a little lower. The front to back weight distribution should still be close to stock but I won't know until it's all built up.

This is the underside showing the two lower boxes..

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[cc2Arider]

Bummer Brad about the thermistor mix-up....at least you can say "thermistor" three times fast and it sounds like you're having a good time :)

Craig C

[33fromSD]

I got the BMS powered up and reading out to a PC. The cell voltages all show correctly but the temperature sensors show as shorted. I read the manual closer and it hit me that it mentions 'thermistors' for temp sensors - EV West told me to get Type K thermocouples and even sent me the Amazon link. Those are two different animals. Man, if I have to take all the packs back apart to install thermistors that will royally suck. I'll call EV West tomorrow but this isn't looking good. Ugh..

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Hi Brad

just curious, why are c80 to c84 not showing any voltage?

Jim

[BradC]

Good catch! It's the way I wired them. The BMS can do 96 cells but I have 91 in my setup. It made more sense wiring wise to have the 5 unused channels in that spot.

[BradC]

Bummer Brad about the thermistor mix-up....at least you can say "thermistor" three times fast and it sounds like you're having a good time :)

Craig C

Haha - I'll try that while I'm taking it all back apart and see if it helps. The cursing in between might ruin that though.

[33fromSD]

Good catch! It's the way I wired them. The BMS can do 96 cells but I have 91 in my setup. It made more sense wiring wise to have the 5 unused channels in that spot.

Ah, got it, Thanks for explaining.

Jim

[BradC]

Got back from SEMA last night. Was a nice trip. It was a bit different from other years I've gone though. Lots of vendors, new layout with the recent huge addition to the convention center, but seemed like quite a bit fewer cars on display. Still lots of nice builds but not as many as before I think. No Chevy or Ford presence either. Just Toyota and Dodge. There was a new section for EV that was decent. Several cars I recognized from my EV research which was cool to see. The build quality of a few of the ones there wasn't quite up to SEMA standards IMO, but it's good to see the growing presence. The EV winner hands down to me was Dave Kindig's #3 CF1. They had #4 there too and of course it was amazing as well. Can't wait to see if they do an episode on it.

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And another bad arse Kindig build is this Pantera. They did a two part show on it that I had seen last year. Completely amazing - was good to see it in person.

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I spent a lot of time talking with the FFR guys too. My "employer" friend has known Dave Smith for a long time and we had a short talk with him about my build. Talked with two of their engineers too. They had their new F-150 frame swap prototype there and Dave was telling us about how he wants to get in to off road racing with it. It's really impressive and a clever idea for a totally new market. That's gonna be a cool one to watch.

So, back to my build....

Turns out I do need to take all the battery boxes apart and change the temp sensors. Oh well. Getting started on that today. Of course the dryer broke while I was gone (I always seem to get that similar text from my wife when I'm gone - haha) so I spent all day fixing that first.

[cc2Arider]

RE: The Kindig electrification project. They were mentioning as such in the latest TV episodes. I didn't realize the TV production was so delayed from real-time events :confused:

Were you able to "talk shop" with the Kindig crew to get some more ideas?

Craig C

[Mastertech5]

RE: The Kindig electrification project. They were mentioning as such in the latest TV episodes. I didn't realize the TV production was so delayed from real-time events :confused:

Were you able to "talk shop" with the Kindig crew to get some more ideas?

Craig C

With their projects taking a year or more and the show giving us the whole build in 1 to 3 episodes they would be delayed by alot.

[BradC]

RE: The Kindig electrification project. They were mentioning as such in the latest TV episodes. I didn't realize the TV production was so delayed from real-time events :confused:

Were you able to "talk shop" with the Kindig crew to get some more ideas?

Craig C

Yeah - they seem to lag quite a while. I didn't get to talk to them. When the bigger celebrities come out there's always a big line. Most are just there to say a quick hi and get an autograph or picture.

[BradC]

I swapped the temp sensors in one of the lower boxes and now I'm getting the correct value for temperature. Good that it's working but still bad I need to rip it all back apart. Here we go... <sigh>

[Mastertech5]

Hear about it in a couple days! LOL

[BradC]

Ok - the temp sensors are all swapped and reading correctly. Took about 10-12 hours I think - what a chore. At least it gave me the opportunity to route the wiring a little better than the first time inside the boxes and through the firewall to the BMS modules. It's a bit cleaner now.

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I need a break from wiring - I think I'm gonna work on something mechanical and messy - CV axles!

[BradC]

CVs are assembled. That was the break I needed from wiring. I'll put them in the car tomorrow.

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[Mastertech5]

Did you have fun with that grease? I always hated replacing torn bolts on those. The last place I worked just replaced the whole thing. Boots weren't cheap and with the extra labor involved you could get reman axles for about the same $.

[BradC]

It was messy for sure. A roll of shop towels and 10 pairs of gloves probably. I've done replacements before too and always just bought the whole thing - much easier. Not really an option here though.

[BradC]

Axles went in super easy. Looks like I got the lengths right. I was pretty confident they were ok because I based it on the CAD model but it's good to see them fit in anyway.

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[Mastertech5]

Those clips on the ends of the inner joints or on some, the output shaft, give guys trouble sometimes getting them to go in. A little trick for future reference, turn the clip so that the gap is at the bottom so when it sags in the groove you don't have a part of the clip catching on the joint splines. I've seen guys bend the clip trying to force them in.

[BradC]

Good to know. Thanks! Fortunately these Tesla clips are pretty easy.

[BradC]

I've been busy mapping out the full car wiring this week so no noteworthy pictures to post. I have the EV specific plan done enough to start running wires so that will be the task at hand for a while. Gonna try and take most of next week off work to focus on it. I should be able to get it to the point where I can maybe spin the motor relatively soon. I have to get the inverter firmware checked and possibly updated by EV Controls beforehand so we'll see how that goes. I can't pull the current firmware version until everything is wired up though.

I'm going to just sort of fake the 12V portion with temporary switches off the battery to start. Once the EV side is all working I'll focus on the full wiring and getting it tied in with the main FFR harness, DC-DC converter, and the charger. There will be a lot of the stock harness I don't need, so there's a bit of work to be done cleaning it all up.

[Mastertech5]

Happy wiring! That's what I've been sorting out too.

[BradC]

Making progress. I have the two custom harnesses from the controller to the motor all assembled and ready connect - but, I accidentally broke a latch tab inside the ModICE connector that goes to the controller and had to order a new one. Ugh... Not too bad though, at least I could find it on Newark and it's supposed to be here tomorrow.

Wires for the electric rear parking brakes, DC to DC converter, and charger are all routed from front to back and hooked up. The contactor box is all done too.That houses the positive and negative contactors, pre-charge relay and resistor, and fuses for the charger and DC-DC. This is definitly the "Don't Touch!!" area once the HV lines are hot.

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I decided to thin out the stock chassis harness now instead of later. Less bulk and I might as well do it now while it's all fresh in my mind vs. later when I've forgotten what's what. The rear tail light harness section is done and I'm goinna try and tackle the main haness at the fuse box today. That mianly means removing all the guage wiring and re-reouting some of the stock engine control circuits to power things like the motor oil pump and coolant pump.

[Mastertech5]

Yeah, that looks ominous. The Hands off Box! Your getting there.

[Mastertech5]

Brad, I know it was awhile since you had your LS3 experience but I've asked 2 other builders with LS3 power about a pink wire in the engine harness that needs to be connected to the FFR harness per 12V hot in start and run.

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I was wondering if you remembered how you made this connection. I can't seem to find this pink wire for the connection they are talking about.

[BradC]

Hi. I sort of remember the pink switched 12V line to the ECU because I had a hidden kill switch that cut that feed to prevent it from being easily hot wired at the keyed switch. I think that's the one you're talking about. It was just whatever normal ignition switched 12V line I picked. Looking at the 33 diagram I think maybe the tan 'Electric Choke' line should work and maybe isn't used already in your build? Even if it is you can probably split it if the current draw allows. There are other leads too of course but I was guessing the Choke lead might be free.

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[BradC]

I got the main harness all thinned out of the stuff I don't need and it's much cleaner and compact now. I'll post pics next time since I still have some things hanging loose. I have the 12V system wiring all installed and mostly alive with the power steering and the electronic parking brake controller working. I ordered a nicer ignition switch than what came with the kit. Wasn't really impressed with it so I went with one from Ron Francis. There's a whole thread on that too so it seems maybe there were supply issues for what they used to include? Not a big deal.

The EV controller connector I ordered for the one I broke was wrong. Apparently there are left/right versions with different keying - ugh. I found the right one and it should be here tomorrow. Not too far off from powering up the motor once I get that all hooked up.

[Mastertech5]

Its where in the GM harness do I connect to for ECM power up? I'm lost on this point. I cannot find any loose pink wire that they mention in the intructions. I can't find a diagram anywhere.

Nevermind! I found it. It was hanging out of the accelerator pedal connection harness. I BAD!

[BradC]

Oh. Sorry, misunderstood you. Glad you found it!

[BradC]

Ok - some updates to post. This is what all the wiring looks like so far. Pretty much everything is there, just not fully connected to the controller and buttoned up yet. It's thinned out quite a bit from the way the harness was originally for the kit so I'm glad I went through and did that first. There are one or two more leads to run to the back but I'm still trying to figure out the charger triggering circuit. Learning more daily on it though.

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When I got the charger it was missing the 220V in connector. I've been working with EV West for months trying to get it replaced. Yesterday for the heck of it on a boring work meeting I searched around to see if I could just buy one and be done with it. Turns out the Elcon distributor is in Sacramento 20 miles from my house!! Go figure. I emailed them and they replied right away familiar with my issue already, and just waiting (for a while now) for EV West to send them my address. So I went and picked it up today. They also answered a lot of questions I had about the charging circuit which was a big help too. Crazy..

[Mastertech5]

Sometimes you just have to handle stuff yourself.

[BradC]

Got the charge port bracket I had made welded in. The aluminum plate on the face is a blank I had SendCutSend make too. It was again cheaper than buying the material to make it myself. Amazing. I'll be machining some cosmetic details in it later to make it look nice.

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I want to keep the dash very simple so I mounted the headlight switch to the right of the column - 3D printed bracket. It's easy to reach but hidden a bit.

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[shackf16]

I just discovered your build when you posted the link over on diyelectriccar.com. I have a Mk3 Cobra that I nearly converted to a Tesla Model S LDU when I decided to tear it all down and rebuild it, but stayed with the ICE performance 306 that I had already sunk a lot of money into. I am planning to convert my daily driver 2016 Ford Escape to a Tesla Model S SDU (possible dual motor setup) and those LG Chem batteries are one of my considerations for Stage 1 of that conversion. Most folks on the electric car forum seem concerned about those batteries as they don't really have a provision for cooling, but it sounds like EV West is having success using them without cooling so maybe that's not an issue. That was one of the main reasons I was probably going to go with the Pacifica LG Chem batteries or possibly Mustang Mach-E since they both have the aluminum cooling plates already sandwiched into the battery module. I think I want to wait and see how your temps look before I make a final decision.

What are you using for gauges? I don't remember seeing that but I admit I may have missed it as I binged your entire thread...

[BradC]

Thanks for checking out my build thread! Yeah, the cooling thing was something I looked into a lot before I decided on those packs. I had several talks with Michael Bream about them and the builds they have done. EV West seals the boxes completely and they stack the packs in direct contact - sealed well from water and dirt but zero ventilation. They were such a good form factor for my build I just kept coming back to them. I designed my boxes a bit different just to add a little extra margin. They have front to back venting and the packs are supported by 80/20 rails that allow airflow between and around the outer sides. If I planned to track the car I wouldn't have gone with these LG packs, but it's purely a fair-weather car. I won't be driving it in rain or on hot summer days, and mostly just normal driving other than the occasional throttle mash. I'll be monitoring the temps of course and I'll have a manual switch to kick on the radiator fan if needed (it's driven by inverter temperature automatically). Plus the controller will scale back power draw if the packs exceed 50C. We'll see!

For gauges I'm using an iPad mini. The T-2C controller has a nice interface and connects by Bluetooth. I'll design and machine a mounting panel that looks the part for a 33 and holds the iPad, drive mode and parking brake switches, probably a voltage indicator for the 12V system, and whatever else I end up needing.

[shackf16]

50C is "only" 122F, which here in southern AZ can be close to the dry bulb temp on a hot summer day. Maybe these modules aren't such a good option for my daily driver application. I was expecting to have some active cooling via chill plates attached to the Pacifica LG modules, so that's probably what I'll have to stay with. It complicates the plumbing a little, but the charger/DCDC that I am looking at is water cooled so there is already some active cooling involved.

I'll be following your build for future updates and look forward to seeing the completed car!

Shack

[Mastertech5]

See what you started. It's a revolution! Go dude!

[BradC]

I’m tryin’ !!

[33fromSD]

Very cool build, I will give you that hands down, but on the EV front itself moving into the mainstream choice of vehicles I have to say speaking from experience that I am less than impressed and this nation is not ready for it.

My wife wanted a Ford Mustang Mach-e (don't even get me started calling this thing a Mustang) so like any good husband would do we bought it. We have the highest power charger you can get (48A) installed in our house and this thing still takes close to 8 hours to charge from 15% to 90% which was an every 7-10 day thing (270 mile range) during summer / fall but now in winter with the cold, snow & lots of wind, it's an every 4 to 5 day process. She primarily only uses it in town.

She took it to a college visit with my son a couple weeks ago which was 200 miles round trip so with a range of 270 miles it should have been plenty. The car was fully charged before she left and by the time she got to the college (100 miles away) the car was already down to 40% charge. These EVs are not designed for cold weather, Ford never thought about the effect of people running heaters or using heated seat or using heated steering wheels on battery life. Instead of listing 271 mile range, EV manufactures should have put a disclaimer like "if you don't use your heater, and don't drive in winter, and don't drive in high wind, and don't drive on roads with speed limits greater than 60 mph you may get a maximum range of 271 miles). What a joke.

Then on her way back she needed to find a charging station which in SoDak there are more than you would think but when she got to the charge station of course there were people in front of her so she had to wait a couple hours for them to finish their charge, and then when she plugged in, she needed to wait 5 hours to charge her EV just to get her to 50% charge so she could make the remaining 50 mile drive. She pulled into the garage at 15% charge.

She likes the car in general but she has admitted that it's a PITA when it comes to charging, planning out trips, worrying about whether she should use the features (heated seats, heated steering wheel, etc.) etc. Since that frustrating trip if she needs to go anywhere longer than 150 miles (especially in winter) she uses our Lincoln Navigator which we can go close to 600 miles on a tank of gas (33 gallon tank) in any type of weather.

At this point, EVs in my opinion are more of a "cool to have" verses the industry is ready for full adoption. We have a long way to go before that. The charging eco-system US-wide is no where ready, charge times are ridiculous (even a fast charge station is still 4-6 hours for a full charge), EV manufactures need to design something that can handle all environments, and vehicle costs are way to high.

I'll stick to my gas vehicles for now, I actually don't drive hers expect to move it to wash it occasionally.

Jim

[J R Jones]

Jim, There is nothing like real world experience for purchasing reference, I have already forwarded your story to a buddy shopping. I have suggested to him that Toyota/Lexus hybrids are at 37-38MPG, as a compromise.
You did not say if your wife's car is RWD or AWD, obviously AWD increases power consumption. There is another potential concern. I was shopping a Lexus SUV electric with AWD. That is FWD default adding the RWD motor as required.
Owner "real world experience" was startling handling in snow/ice turning. As the front tires loose traction the rear motor comes on and the slide goes from understeer to oversteer, and/or slide. We went with an Infinity which is default RWD and mechanical AWD as required. No complaints.
jim

[33fromSD]

Jim, There is nothing like real world experience for purchasing reference, I have already forwarded your story to a buddy shopping. I have suggested to him that Toyota/Lexus hybrids are at 37-38MPG, as a compromise.
You did not say if your wife's car is RWD or AWD, obviously AWD increases power consumption. There is another potential concern. I was shopping a Lexus SUV electric with AWD. That is FWD default adding the RWD motor as required.
Owner "real world experience" was startling handling in snow/ice turning. As the front tires loose traction the rear motor comes on and the slide goes from understeer to oversteer, and/or slide. We went with an Infinity which is default RWD and mechanical AWD as required. No complaints.
jim

Hey Jim

My wife's EV is AWD. My wife hates snow but said she's feels very comfortable with this car in the snow so I take it she hasn't felt loosey goosey in the snow as of yet, I would know right away of she did so I guess that is one positive.

Jim

[33fromSD]

Jim, There is nothing like real world experience for purchasing reference, I have already forwarded your story to a buddy shopping. I have suggested to him that Toyota/Lexus hybrids are at 37-38MPG, as a compromise.
You did not say if your wife's car is RWD or AWD, obviously AWD increases power consumption. There is another potential concern. I was shopping a Lexus SUV electric with AWD. That is FWD default adding the RWD motor as required.
Owner "real world experience" was startling handling in snow/ice turning. As the front tires loose traction the rear motor comes on and the slide goes from understeer to oversteer, and/or slide. We went with an Infinity which is default RWD and mechanical AWD as required. No complaints.
jim


By the way Jim, I never looked at your location info before, I was born and raised in West Bend, WI about 10 miles from Kettle Moraine. Lived there until I was 18 and then moved to SoDak. My family (Mom & Siblings) still live in and around the West Bend area.

Jim

[BradC]

That's definitely an interesting real world report for your 'should never have been called a Mustang' Mustang. Ha

Just curious, are those DC fast charge stations where it's taking hours? I don't have an EV but a couple friends with Teslas say the DC charging takes like 20-30 minutes to get you back on the road at around 80%. It does take long for the 80%+ levels.

I thought long and hard about the F150 lightning last year but just couldn't see it fitting our range needs for towing/camping/road trips, etc.. But because I do 90% around town driving I went with the hybrid F150 and it's perfect. I went from 10-11 mpg with my Ram 1500 to 18-19 around town. Highway is not bad either around 22 realistically, although I have seen it doing the rated 24 on flat with no head wind. And it'll go almost 700 miles on a tank. Hard to move away from that just yet. I agree that EV seems far from full replacement now but hopefully the momentum will deliver that next big battery tech needed to make it more feasible. We'll see..

I'm hoping this project car pans out well since I don't have any real critical expectations of it. It definitely should be fun power wise - if it can do the 140-150 range that's been estimated I'll be thrilled. If it does 100 miles that's fine too. If it does 75 it'll still be fun on the weekends around town.

[33fromSD]

That's definitely an interesting real world report for your 'should never have been called a Mustang' Mustang. Ha

Just curious, are those DC fast charge stations where it's taking hours? I don't have an EV but a couple friends with Teslas say the DC charging takes like 20-30 minutes to get you back on the road at around 80%. It does take long for the 80%+ levels.

I thought long and hard about the F150 lightning last year but just couldn't see it fitting our range needs for towing/camping/road trips, etc.. But because I do 90% around town driving I went with the hybrid F150 and it's perfect. I went from 10-11 mpg with my Ram 1500 to 18-19 around town. Highway is not bad either around 22 realistically, although I have seen it doing the rated 24 on flat with no head wind. And it'll go almost 700 miles on a tank. Hard to move away from that just yet. I agree that EV seems far from full replacement now but hopefully the momentum will deliver that next big battery tech needed to make it more feasible. We'll see..

I'm hoping this project car pans out well since I don't have any real critical expectations of it. It definitely should be fun power wise - if it can do the 140-150 range that's been estimated I'll be thrilled. If it does 100 miles that's fine too. If it does 75 it'll still be fun on the weekends around town.

Hi Brad.

The ones my wife used were not the DC fast chargers but they were the step below those but more than our home 48A charger so what ever those are. Those DC fast chargers are few and far between in the midwest yet which is another ecosystem issue.

I know a guy who has a F150 Lightning and turned a simple 45 minute trip to pick up a car into a day long adventure due to towing sucked more charge that anticipated so he had to find a station and then recharging took forever to get to the charger (several cars in front at each charger) and then the 6-8 hours it took him to get his truck charged. He was not happy when I went over the next day to help him unload the trailer.

I'm not knocking EVs, there will come a time, I get that, but a lot needs to change before they come mainstream.

Jim

[BradC]

Yep - all very real roadblocks that need to clear up before it can get universally practical. There's also the issue of the general power grid. I'm pretty sure something would blow up in my 40 year old neighborhood if everyone was charging their car at the same time. Ha.

The DC charging stations seem to be quite common around here which is probably why it seems every 3rd car on the road is a Tesla. We have that stupid 2035 mandate for all new cars to be electric so that might be why.

[J R Jones]

By the way Jim, I never looked at your location info before, I was born and raised in West Bend, WI about 10 miles from Kettle Moraine. Lived there until I was 18 and then moved to SoDak. My family (Mom & Siblings) still live in and around the West Bend area.

Jim

Jim, My family moved from MKE to Mequon in 1962, I graduated Homestead HS 1966. Youth activities were all over Ozaukee and Washington counties. The skate palace and the Filmore Fireman's picnic beer bar and dance hall were favorites. I worked in WB and Allenton several years We were considering Pizza in Barton last night.

I have a Laura Ingalls Wilder relative that taught school long ago in Grindy SD.

Yeah on EV trucks I read an unfavorable article in the last month.
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/ford-f150-lightning-electric-truck-towing-test/
My 4X4 Tundra is our ultimate back up and hauler/tower of everything. Fortunately with their rural popularity, I do not get requests for borrowing the pick-up anymore.
I have
jim

[jmccabe]

Research Tesla. Have driven cross country four times in the last few years and never have to wait longer than 25 min to charge enough for my next 2 1/2 hr hop. Doing this is as easy as entering your destination and your car tells you where your next charge will be and how long you will be there.
Tesla is the only manufacturer that realized the importance of charging .
Jeff

[BradC]

Got the charging station I ordered today, and I have the charge triggering circuit all sorted out finally. Just waiting on some diodes to be delivered and then I'll have everything to finish up the wiring. It's not really complicated inherently, but getting the right info on how best to set it up was a bit of a chore. The questions the guy at Elcon cleared up for me last week were a big help, and a guy on another EV forum shared his schematic with me. Basically the J1772 (standard charging plug) has two ground signals that tell the BMS "power up, we might be charging in a second" when the connector is barely inserted, and then "yep, were definitely gonna charge now" once you let go of the plug lock trigger. That's monitored by a small unit I got from EV West called 'AVC2'. It then sends non-keyed power to the BMS when the charger connector is in place. The BMS then closes a relay that starts the charger if all cells are within programmed limits. The BMS can automatically stop the charger and turn on a warning light/buzzer if there is a problem. If no errors, the charger operates based on its own charge profile that was set up specifically for my batteries. Fairly simple now that I understand it.

I mounted and wired the Tesla water pump today too (back by the motor). I'll try it out at full power once the system is closed but it was kind of loud when I tested it. Could be that the back pressure was low and there was air in my test loop. It has PWM control lines so I routed those up to the dash in case I need to control it later.

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[BradC]

I have the iPad operation figured out I think for when it's mounted in the dash. I want to keep it connected to power all the time but I won't have access to the side button. There is a thing called Automations you can set up so that when power is connected it launches a specific app (among other functions). You can also add a small transparent button on the screen through Accessibility that locks the iPad - again because I won't have access to the lock button. I'm going to use the starter position on the ignition switch to open up a relay that cuts power to the iPad momentarily. When you let off the key it will restore power and trigger the iPad to wake up and launch the EV Controls app. The best I can do on shut down as of now is just hit the small button on the display to lock the screen. Better than leaving a hole in the mounting bezel to access the physical button though. This is what I have so far with the bezel design - it will be centered in the dash. I have to add the ignition switch hole and some other controls to the right still but it's a start. I'm thinking now that I want a GPS speedometer and probably 12V system voltage gauge in line with the steering wheel. Mainly because the EV app doesn't have an odometer.

176396

[BradC]

Well, I attempted power up this morning. Nothing blew up which is good but I got a communication problem and couldn't pull firmware info from the inverter. I have BMS info coming to the controller though so it's not a CAN1 problem. I started digging around wiring and found a broken wire for 'CAN2 Low' at the controller connector. Hopefully that's the problem and I didn't just break it while checking. However - I can't get the bad terminal out of the main connector easy. Last time I tried to hack job it I broke the housing. No choice but to order the overpriced terminal extractor tool, so it'll be a few before I can fix it and try again. DigiKey has it in stock but I have to go to Oregon for work this coming week so realistically it'll be next weekend to fix the broken lead.

Meanwhile I should be able to test out charging, and there's lots of other things I can do of course. Will probably work on getting the brakes filled and bled.

[BradC]

Looks like I'm 0 for 2 right now. I tried charging the batteries this morning and it's not working either. It's giving a weird fault code that's not in the manual. Ugh. I contacted Elcon and they want me to bring them the charger - they think something might be wrong internally and they need to test it. Again, quite fortunate they're local to me! It would be expensive to ship. I hate it when things go like this but what can you do... such is life with project cars.

[BradC]

Got back from Oregon last night and I had a little time on the car today.

When I took the charger to Elcon Tuesday it tested out ok - weird. I put it back in today and of course it’s still having the issue. I’ve learned it thinks the batteries are full. That happens based on the voltage and/or current being pulled. It’s supposedly programmed for 382 max voltage and I’m reading 328 volts when it’s stopping itself. I sent an email back to ask about it maybe being programmed wrong. 382 — 328. Would be my luck it’s a typo in the programming. We’ll see.

No luck on the controller either. I fixed the broken wire and it’s still not working. Sent an email to EV Controls about it because I’m stumped….

[BradC]

Partial success!! EV Controls confirmed I had the Model S firmware on my controller which is why it wasn't communicating. They staged the Model 3 version this morning for me to update through the iPad, and it's communicating with the inverter now!! All the info for my motor sent over to them successfully. It's really cool - it does it automatically through my iPad connected to WiFi. They need to prepare a new inverter firmware for my motor and he said it should be ready later today. Once I flash the inverter I should be able to spin the motor!! I'll save the happy dance until I actually see it spin but it seems encouraging.

[Mastertech5]

Sounds like you have a handle on it now. I'll happy dance with you!

[BradC]

Officially happy dance time! Although you'll never see it because I hate being on video. This is a huge load off seeing it working. I had all the firmware updated and done a couple hours ago but I was still having a problem engaging drive. Turns out I had a broken ground for the positive contactor - must have done that on accident re-checking wiring the other day. Kind of an important detail, but easy to fix once I found it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4t2p6smczE

[BradC]

Got my fenders yesterday. These are from McQueen Prototype Design. They seem nice. The rears have a similar shape.

176894

[Geoff H]

Really exciting - congratulations on your first start!

[BradC]

Thank you!!

[BradC]

Sounds like you have a handle on it now. I'll happy dance with you!

Haha - thanks!

[Just 1 More]

Got my fenders yesterday. These are from McQueen Prototype Design. They seem nice. The rears have a similar shape.

176894

I need to know more about the fenders, info please & thank upi

[jayguy]

Got my fenders yesterday. These are from McQueen Prototype Design. They seem nice. The rears have a similar shape.

176894

Awesome, glad to see they really are still selling them!

and Congrats on getting the wheels turning!

[BradC]

I need to know more about the fenders, info please & thank upi

Here's the rear..

176906

http://www.mpdfiberbodywerx.com/ Scroll down and look for "1933 BODY KIT FACTORY FIVE"

[BradC]

Awesome, glad to see they really are still selling them!

and Congrats on getting the wheels turning!

Thanks! Yep - they were great to work with and quick turnaround. Took maybe 2-3 weeks.

[Just 1 More]

Here's the rear..

176906

http://www.mpdfiberbodywerx.com/ Scroll down and look for "1933 BODY KIT FACTORY FIVE"

Do you know if these are the same width as the ones from FFR?

[progmgr1]

Brad - I tried to check out the fenders (http://www.mpdfiberbodywerx.com/ Scroll down and look for "1933 BODY KIT FACTORY FIVE") and my browser keeps telling me that it is not a secure connection and won't go there. Is there a typo in the link or something funky about the website?

Otherwise, great progress on your project! I can't wait to see the "first drive" video.

Keith HR #894

[Just 1 More]

Brad - I tried to check out the fenders (http://www.mpdfiberbodywerx.com/ Scroll down and look for "1933 BODY KIT FACTORY FIVE") and my browser keeps telling me that it is not a secure connection and won't go there. Is there a typo in the link or something funky about the website?

Otherwise, great progress on your project! I can't wait to see the "first drive" video.

Keith HR #894

I found it under fiberglass body panels all the way to the right http://www.mpdfiberbodywerx.com/

[BradC]

Do you know if these are the same width as the ones from FFR?

I don't. I'm actually a little worried about that since the rear in mine is a little wider than stock. I couldn't shorten the Tesla suspension any more than I did and I think it's close. I need to drop the body back on and check but not until I get my charger problem sorted out. Worst case, it's just fiberglass. I don't have the skills to widen them but someone does!

[BradC]

Brad - I tried to check out the fenders (http://www.mpdfiberbodywerx.com/ Scroll down and look for "1933 BODY KIT FACTORY FIVE") and my browser keeps telling me that it is not a secure connection and won't go there. Is there a typo in the link or something funky about the website?

Otherwise, great progress on your project! I can't wait to see the "first drive" video.

Keith HR #894

Not sure on that - the link works on my system.

[Mastertech5]

176920

[FF33rod]

Got my fenders yesterday. These are from McQueen Prototype Design. They seem nice. The rears have a similar shape.

176894

Congrats on getting the drive train running, excellent!!!!

Regarding the front bike style fenders, the rear of these need to be very close to the ground to stop stones from hitting the body and the front of the rear fenders in particular. Just a heads up warning.

Steve

[BradC]

Thanks!

Appreciate the advice on the front fenders. I don't think these go down super low in the back. I'll mess around with them later and see what range there is with the brackets they came with. I'll have protective film on the rear fenders for sure though when it's painted.

[BradC]

Been doing some wiring cleanup so it's drivable whenever I get the charger problem solved. Several 3D printed parts are in progress to help fully isolate the HV system from any chassis ground. This is two of them, just simple straddle spacers held by rubber lined zip ties so they can't slip. The rest are printing now.

177034

Slightly cleaner for the dash wiring now. I plan on doing it up a bit better when it goes back together for final after paint, but this is fine for now.

177035

Got the brakes bled and to my utter astonishment I had no leaks. Me and any sort of plumbing are not on friendly terms typically so I'll just have to assume this was a fluke. I'll take it though!

I ordered the aluminum panels for the floor patch and the bottom center channel. They're done already but I won't be able to pick them up until tomorrow. One day turnaround at a local shop is pretty good. I don't have a big enough sheer so it was cleaner and easier to just have them made.

I also took all the door frame and hinge hardware over for powder coating yesterday. I was told by the FFR body/paint expert in the area that those should be coated before assembly so they don't need to come back apart.

[RoadRacer]

Been doing some wiring cleanup so it's drivable whenever I get the charger problem solved. Several 3D printed parts are in progress to help fully isolate the HV system from any chassis ground. This is two of them, just simple straddle spacers held by rubber lined zip ties so they can't slip. The rest are printing now.

177034

Slightly cleaner for the dash wiring now. I plan on doing it up a bit better when it goes back together for final after paint, but this is fine for now.

177035

Got the brakes bled and to my utter astonishment I had no leaks. Me and any sort of plumbing are not on friendly terms typically so I'll just have to assume this was a fluke. I'll take it though!

I ordered the aluminum panels for the floor patch and the bottom center channel. They're done already but I won't be able to pick them up until tomorrow. One day turnaround at a local shop is pretty good. I don't have a big enough sheer so it was cleaner and easier to just have them made.

I also took all the door frame and hinge hardware over for powder coating yesterday. I was told by the FFR body/paint expert in the area that those should be coated before assembly so they don't need to come back apart.

Funny, I guess I expected your wiring to be this super neat given it's electric, but impressive nonetheless. These can look pretty messy behind the dash :)

I was the same way wth brakes.. expected something bad to happen, but since the day they were plumbed I've never had to tighten or seen any leaks.

[Mastertech5]

Yes, pretty neat compared to some though. Look at Street Rod Jim's latest reassembly video about wiring. Despite all his notes he got lost in it all and there are single wires all over like he took everything out of the harnesses.

[BradC]

Right! When it goes back together final I want to make sure the wiring is tucked up neat, but also still accessible. Never fails you end up needing to change or add something later. I'm not as flexible as I used to be so contorting up under the dash isn't fun.

[Mastertech5]

I did that for 40 years looking for shorts or changing a module. Not fun!

[BradC]

Yep. Not the place you want to get a neck cramp! Though I’m not sure where you would actually want a neck cramp.

[JimLev]

Nice that you don’t have that tranny tunnel cover, lots of free empty space!

[BradC]

Yeah, that’s a bonus with this setup. Allowed me to locate the throttle pedal over to the right more.

[BradC]

Wow - the powder coating place called me today and the parts I took in Monday are done already! There were 12 parts total including the larger door and hinge frames. They look great. I was expecting 2-3 weeks but they had a time gap with larger projects and slotted them in. I didn't want to mess with coating them myself because they needed a ton of deburring. The media blast they did got it all - would have taken me hours. This is one of the door frames.

177062

Went and picked up the floor panel and lower center panel today too. The floor fits perfect but I haven't tried the lower panel yet. I need to do some machining to the spacers I made for the lower battery boxes so it can slot in.

177063

Still no luck with the charger. I talked to EV West yesterday and did some current draw measurements. Everything appears to be operating as if the high voltage cut off value is programmed wrong. I'll have to pull it out again and take it back to Elcon to check the programming. It's a pain to get out but not much else I can do art this point.

[BradC]

I took the charger back to Elcon again today. We confirmed the programming is correct, but we did figure out the problem thankfully - it's my charging station amperage limit. I have a 30A, 240V circuit so the charging station I have limits the current to 24A. I thought the charger would just operate with what it has but that's not how it works. It's a 6600W charger so if it doesn't have enough power to operate at that level it just shuts off rather than adjusting the capacity down. I changed the charging station setting to 40A since it should only need about 27-28A, fired up the charger just temporarily, and it worked. However (UGH!!) when I disconnected it to restore all the BMS fault interrupt circuitry that I had disabled while troubleshooting, somehow the charger control module failed. No idea how.. It's not very expensive and not worth sending back so I just ordered another one. Irritating!!

While I'm waiting for the control module I'm going to have Elcon reprogram my charger for a lower power level. That's easier than upgrading the circuit in the garage because my sub-panel is already maxed out with our spa circuit.

[BradC]

Every time I get frustrated with electrical stuff it helps to do something mechanical. And yes, I'm aware of the irony that of my own doing I chose to build a mostly electrical car, and that I have no one to blame but myself. Ha..

Lower center panel installed. This shields the middle area where I ran wiring and coolant lines.

177103

[BradC]

Got the charger working! Turns out the charger controller didn't fail, my 12V battery (which powers the charge controller) just got too low and the internal relays of the controller were cycling without enough voltage - making a buzzing/clicking noise like something had failed. The 12V battery just needed a charge up. Now I have the extra module showing up but not a big deal - it was only $45. I feel batter that it didn't actually fail.

Elcon reprogrammed it to 5KW from 6.6KW for me yesterday. It will be able do a charge from zero to full in about 8-10 hours and won't push my 30A circuit anywhere close to trip. Most often with this car I'll plug it in after every drive so I should only be looking at a few hours in reality to top it off. It's unlikely I'll ever run it close to zero.

What I'm still missing is the ability to see state of charge (a fuel gauge). There aren't any aftermarket solutions out there for the higher voltage setups like this yet but EV West told me they're working on a CANBUS shunt that will talk to my BMS with a firmware update and show charge level on my controller display. That should be a nice solution.

[FF33rod]

Every time I get frustrated with electrical stuff it helps to do something mechanical. And yes, I'm aware of the irony that of my own doing I chose to build a mostly electrical car, and that I have no one to blame but myself. Ha..

Lower center panel installed. This shields the middle area where I ran wiring and coolant lines.

177103

That is rather funny!!! :) Glad you got the charger sorted. Have a great Christmas

Steve

[Mastertech5]

Glad to see it all worked out and only cost $45, extra. Lol. Have a great holiday!

[33fromSD]

Got the charger working! Turns out the charger controller didn't fail, my 12V battery (which powers the charge controller) just got too low and the internal relays of the controller were cycling without enough voltage - making a buzzing/clicking noise like something had failed. The 12V battery just needed a charge up. Now I have the extra module showing up but not a big deal - it was only $45. I feel batter that it didn't actually fail.

Elcon reprogrammed it to 5KW from 6.6KW for me yesterday. It will be able do a charge from zero to full in about 8-10 hours and won't push my 30A circuit anywhere close to trip. Most often with this car I'll plug it in after every drive so I should only be looking at a few hours in reality to top it off. It's unlikely I'll ever run it close to zero.

What I'm still missing is the ability to see state of charge (a fuel gauge). There aren't any aftermarket solutions out there for the higher voltage setups like this yet but EV West told me they're working on a CANBUS shunt that will talk to my BMS with a firmware update and show charge level on my controller display. That should be a nice solution.

Looking good Brad. Curious on your charge plans. On my wife's EV (Mustang Mach-e) Ford suggests not letting the battery get lower than 10% before charging (never lower) and don't charge past 80-90%. We charge it the it hits ~15% and charge it to 90% each time. Ocassionally after a SW push update the charge setting gets changed and it's charges to 100% but the Ford rep I talked to noted this is not an issue as long as it's not done every time. This is supposedly due to battery memory / life.

Topping off is a huge discussion on most EV forums where the popular vote is "don't do it". The Ford rep also frowned on topping off unless it's extremely cold weather (below zero temps) and you charge outside.

Your comment above seems to lean towards topping off constantly. I think you noted once you have different batteries than most EVs, are there any concerns on your set up for shortening battery life from constant topping off? All batteries have some sort of memory don't they?

Jim

[BradC]

Hi Jim,

Good points.. I guess topping off is a relative term between a production EV and what I'm doing. Does "90%" mean the same thing car to car? I don't know the answer to that. What I meant by it was that I would keep it ready to go with a full charge since it won't be a daily driver - but I was basing that on what my e-bike says to do (also lithium-ion batteries). You're supposed to keep it charged at full unless you plan on long term non-use. But, I also don't know where the charge cut-off is set for that. I have a high voltage cut off value of 4.2V per cell for my EV packs that I was thinking was the safe max charge point for the batteries - and EV West had my charger programmed for that value (382V total). What you mentioned makes me think I should verify that assumption though. I don't have a % charge readout yet so I'll need to go by cell voltage. I can also adjust that cut off value in the BMS so that it would trigger a fault that cuts off the charger before it hits 4.2V per cell.

I'll look into that more. Thanks for the post!

[33fromSD]

Hi Jim,

Good points.. I guess topping off is a relative term between a production EV and what I'm doing. Does "90%" mean the same thing car to car? I don't know the answer to that. What I meant by it was that I would keep it ready to go with a full charge since it won't be a daily driver - but I was basing that on what my e-bike says to do (also lithium-ion batteries). You're supposed to keep it charged at full unless you plan on long term non-use. But, I also don't know where the charge cut-off is set for that. I have a high voltage cut off value of 4.2V per cell for my EV packs that I was thinking was the safe max charge point for the batteries - and EV West had my charger programmed for that value (382V total). What you mentioned makes me think I should verify that assumption though. I don't have a % charge readout yet so I'll need to go by cell voltage. I can also adjust that cut off value in the BMS so that it would trigger a fault that cuts off the charger before it hits 4.2V per cell.

I'll look into that more. Thanks for the post!

Make sense. Thanks

Jim

[BradC]

Had a little set back when I couldn't get the coolant pump to stay primed where I had it located in the rear. I evacuated the system, but still couldn't get all the air moved up front. I had to rethink things a bit and I ended up changing the pump location and the radiator orientation. Had to make new mounting brackets and move the pump wiring but I got it all back together and got the system filled and bled this morning. All flowing nicely now. Front fenders are mounted too.

177314 177315

It's all ready to go-kart but the weather isn't going to allow for a few days. Not the best idea to take all that bare steel out in the rain anyway. That's fine, we need the rain more than I need to test drive it. I'll get working on drilling all the chassis sheet metal and screwing it down. It'll be riveted on final assembly later.

[Mastertech5]

I see you got other fenders. Did you get rears too and where from? Fronts look good. How did you mount them?
Never mind. I missed the previous posts on this subject.

[BradC]

They aren't as functional I think as the FFR ones in terms of front fender coverage but whatever - they fit the look I wanted. Hopefully protective film will help. They came with brackets that attach to the same points on the spindle that the FFR ones do. One thing I wasn't happy with is the left and right have a slightly different shape inboard where the brackets attach. The main part matches though. I'll have the body shop even them up when it's in for paint later.

I'm hoping the rears fit with my wheels. I'll set the body back on once I get the sheet metal screwed down and see.

[BradC]

I've been working out some new issues with the motor controller that popped up. I haven't driven it yet but after messing with spinning the wheels in the air a few times the BMS communication and brake switch function stopped working. I went through all the wiring - again - and didn't find any problems. I emailed the motor controller mfg. and after some back and forth it seems like there's a degenerative bug with the firmware. They're working on a new one and hopefully it'll be ready next week. Still raining like crazy here anyway so it's not really holding up anything.

I was also having no luck getting the electric parking brakes to grab. I'm using an aftermarket controller with the Tesla calipers and it's just not applying anywhere close to enough pressure. The guy who makes the controller has been great and after some discussion he was cool with just giving me rework instructions to increase the output current (vs. sending it back to PA possibly several times). Ordered some tiny resistors and I'll pull some favors with the rework lab at work to make the changes. Hopefully that solves it.

[BradC]

Set the body back on and got the first two rear mounting points aligned, drilled, and bolted up. I need to pull it back off and do some clearancing on the fiberglass here and there to get the front fitting tighter. Still trying to decide how much to do myself vs. just letting the body shop do it. They've done hundreds of FFR cars and have it all dialed in - plus I'd probably do something stupid that they'd just need to fix anyway. I've done enough body work to know I'm not good at it. I'll probably just go that route and spare myself all the nasty fiberglass dust.

I want to go with 3 point seatbelts so I've been researching that a bit. I think I have some picked out so I just need to make sure the mounting points will work out. I'll take some measurements tomorrow and probably roll the dice and order them. Not very expensive anyway.

[33fromSD]

I'm on my 12th full rotisserie restoration (some frame off restorations) all steel cars and I actually found fiberglass to be a pleasure to work with. I'm not sure if it was just something new so I was more tolerant to body work or if it was truly easier but I enjoyed it. Easy to work with, a lot more forgiving than steel, easier to shape than steel (less steps). Need more material or make a mistake, pull out the glass / resin and fix it verses spending hours shaping the metal, then welding, then grinding, then body filler, etc..

Since I only use my 33 as an occasional cruiser in the city I left the 5 point harnesses in the 33 but tucked them behind the seat and added old school lap belts. If I ever take a longer trip I'll use the 5 point, but I don't see that happening since I have much more comfortable toys to use for long term cruises.

Jim

[BradC]

I think my problem is patience. Bodywork requires it and I'm short on supply in that area. And, I just don't enjoy it. People who can do metalwork are so impressive though. I love watching what like Joe Martin's and Kindig's team can do - but on TV they can do it all in like 10-15 minutes. And then the body guys have it all ready for paint in another 10-15. If only....

My 33 will be my only fun car so I'll need practical, comfortable belts. Space limits me to one toy car at a time (until we move!! haha). I'm looking at these: https://www.seatbeltsplus.com/product/WSCH300.html. Looks like if I extend the roll bar mounts on the frame up as far as possible the top loops can be mounted up high enough. I'm thinking they will just bolt through the waterfall which should look ok. I'm not doing a roll bar.

[33fromSD]

Agree they will look fine. I can add the roll bar if needed but I leave it out too.

Jim

[Just 1 More]

I think my problem is patience. Bodywork requires it and I'm short on supply in that area. And, I just don't enjoy it. People who can do metalwork are so impressive though. I love watching what like Joe Martin's and Kindig's team can do - but on TV they can do it all in like 10-15 minutes. And then the body guys have it all ready for paint in another 10-15. If only....

My 33 will be my only fun car so I'll need practical, comfortable belts. Space limits me to one toy car at a time (until we move!! haha). I'm looking at these: https://www.seatbeltsplus.com/product/WSCH300.html. Looks like if I extend the roll bar mounts on the frame up as far as possible the top loops can be mounted up high enough. I'm thinking they will just bolt through the waterfall which should look ok. I'm not doing a roll bar.

Very interesting, i'm watching to see how you do these

[progmgr1]

I've got seat belts on the list of issues to consider when (if) I finally get to go-cart. Past forum research led to the following posts from other builders:

I got the three-point retractable belts with aircraft buckles from Wesco (http://www.wescoperformance.com/). I fabricated mounts out of some thick steel I had lying around.

I bought a set from Seatbeltsplus.com 3 Point Retractable Seat Belt, End Release Button, 22" Cable
Make sure you get the 22" cable so that it is long enough. I mounted the retractor to the outer FF5 floor brackets and the cable to the inner FF5 floor brackets. I fabricated brackets to slip around the roll bar to attach the shoulder harness. I used 1" ID O-rings above and below the brackets to keep them in position. The cable with the latch must run inside http://www.ffcars.com/forums/attachments/factory-five-33-hot-rod-forum-sponsored-e-t-wheels/255738d1464955828-seat-belt-hotrod-93-.jpg

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/attachments/factory-five-33-hot-rod-forum-sponsored-e-t-wheels/255746d1464955845-seat-belt-hotrod-90-.jpg

Alternative 4 belt seatbelt with retractor: http://corbeau.com/other/harness-bel...ness-belt.html $109.
I have Schroth's Profi II ASM FE a four point system with their proprietary system (they call it ASM) to prevent submarining with just four belts. Recommended to prevent crushing intestines in crash.

The Schroth system sounds particularly interesting since most builders dislike the 5th belt, and having retractors on a 4 belt system is much more user friendly than the stock FFR system, IMHO.

I hope the above gives you some useful alternatives to consider.

Keith HR #894

[BradC]

Thanks Keith! Those Corbeau retractable ones look really cool. I saw the other posts but hadn't come across those yet. Seems like they would attach to the points already there in the car too, which allows for a higher upper point. I think I'll buy one and try it out. I bought one of the others too so I can compare.

177763

[BradC]

Actually, not sure those will work out. Using some scaling on the image I'm pretty sure the distance between the upper mount point and where the belt splits is way too long for this car. Even if I mounted them farther back to the trunk panel, the back of my neck would sit right near the split in the belt. That wouldn't be comfortable since I'll need the seat all the way back while driving. They're meant for car with a back seat maybe. Oh well - was worth a look.

[BradC]

We got a break in the rain today so I just went ahead and took it out around our court for a quick first run (even though the controller firmware problem is still there). Went great!! I have the controller limited to 100KW. The motor is capable of about 265KW. The short burn out in the video here is maybe half throttle. So as expected this will have stupid power - nothing wrong with that!! I'll look more into the GPS based traction control that I can add to the motor controller. Might be a good idea for rolling acceleration since the torque is so high and the car is so light.

Wheel alignments are just eyeballed right now and of course there is more weight to be added as it builds out, but it's clear just from the first drive that keeping the rear wheels hooked up will be a challenge. This thing is gonna be fun to drive! Brakes worked fine, no weird noises, and the rear suspension seems fine. I drove it a lot more than the 1 minute here in the video, over curbs, and of course several more times breaking the rear wheels loose. It should only get better as I dial it in more!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=timBdaZ6s8k

[Mastertech5]

Way cool! I'm happy for you.177768

[progmgr1]

Congratulations on the first drive! Big milestone. The car looks really good, except for that weirdly empty engine compartment (compared to mine with the Coyote, power brakes, etc., etc.) Sorry the seat belt ideas didn't work out. Do they have other configurations that might fit better? The catalog was pretty extensive, IIRC.

Keith HR #894

[BradC]

Thanks guys. Definitely a relief to have the first drive go well. I do agree about the engine compartment looking weird. I've been thinking what I want to do with that long term. Got a few ideas between making it a small frunk and hiding everything to some type of cosmetic dressing that highlights it. Not sure yet..

I'll just see how the belts I ordered work out and go from there. It should be here tomorrow. I think I can make them work with some custom brackets tied in to the chassis but I need to work on it more.

[BradC]

Thought this was worth posting... Officially the smallest part worked on for this build. Next to this penny is the resistor I had to change to hopefully get the parking brakes working. Someone very skilled at soldering did the swap for me - no way I could have done it right myself.

177770 177771

I'll reinstall it this weekend and try it out.

Oh, and it was $13 shipping for this 10 cent part. Reasonable for 2 day delivery but still funny.

[Jeff33Ford]

That first drive is so BA. Congrats you are really moving along on this. Fun to watch the progress.

[BradC]

Thank you!!

[peterh226]

I've got seat belts on the list of issues to consider when (if) I finally get to go-cart. Past forum research led to the following posts from other builders:

I got the three-point retractable belts with aircraft buckles from Wesco (http://www.wescoperformance.com/). I fabricated mounts out of some thick steel I had lying around.

I bought a set from Seatbeltsplus.com 3 Point Retractable Seat Belt, End Release Button, 22" Cable
Make sure you get the 22" cable so that it is long enough. I mounted the retractor to the outer FF5 floor brackets and the cable to the inner FF5 floor brackets. I fabricated brackets to slip around the roll bar to attach the shoulder harness. I used 1" ID O-rings above and below the brackets to keep them in position. The cable with the latch must run inside http://www.ffcars.com/forums/attachments/factory-five-33-hot-rod-forum-sponsored-e-t-wheels/255738d1464955828-seat-belt-hotrod-93-.jpg

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/attachments/factory-five-33-hot-rod-forum-sponsored-e-t-wheels/255746d1464955845-seat-belt-hotrod-90-.jpg

Alternative 4 belt seatbelt with retractor: http://corbeau.com/other/harness-bel...ness-belt.html $109.
I have Schroth's Profi II ASM FE a four point system with their proprietary system (they call it ASM) to prevent submarining with just four belts. Recommended to prevent crushing intestines in crash.

The Schroth system sounds particularly interesting since most builders dislike the 5th belt, and having retractors on a 4 belt system is much more user friendly than the stock FFR system, IMHO.

I hope the above gives you some useful alternatives to consider.

Keith HR #894

I just got the 3 point harness that FFR uses on the truck. They fit fine and include the upper attach bracket that mounts to the Roll Bar.

[BradC]

I just got the 3 point harness that FFR uses on the truck. They fit fine and include the upper attach bracket that mounts to the Roll Bar.

Sounds like those require the roll bar? I did a quick search and couldn't find any images of them.

[BradC]

Well it went quite bad with the parking brake controller mod and test. Didn't solve the clamp pressure problem and after a few cycles one of the ICs blew on the controller - sparks and complete melt down. Sent an email back out with the update so we'll see where it goes from here. That really sucks...

[BradC]

This is what I'm thinking for the upper seat belt bracket. Probably overkill but that's ok. I'm printing out plastic test parts right now to see how it would all fit. Supposed to get the seat belts today too. It would be steel and welded in of course if it works out. I'd notch the upper part of the body like shown in silver below and the upper slip bracket for the seat belt would bolt to the part of the bracket that sticks out a little. That's about as high up as I can reasonably get the upper belt while still looking ok.

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[33fromSD]

Great job on the first drive. Really REALLY cool!!

One question, and I'm not sure how anal inspection is by you but my wife's 2022 Mach-e, Ford had to include a pedestrian warning system, basically just piping a humming/growling sound through a pair of external speakers so blind or low-sight pedestrians know there is a vehicle by or around them.

Tesla I heard will implement something like this in an HW/SW update later this year for cars coming off the assembly line as well as cars in the field. Do you need to do anything similar for your state to pass inspection?

Jim

[peterh226]

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This is the 3 point seatbelt that FFR sells as an alternative to the Simpsons. It bolts in to the existing lugs on the floor.

[BradC]

Great job on the first drive. Really REALLY cool!!

One question, and I'm not sure how anal inspection is by you but my wife's 2022 Mach-e, Ford had to include a pedestrian warning system, basically just piping a humming/growling sound through a pair of external speakers so blind or low-sight pedestrians know there is a vehicle by or around them.

Tesla I heard will implement something like this in an HW/SW update later this year for cars coming off the assembly line as well as cars in the field. Do you need to do anything similar for your state to pass inspection?

Jim

I thought that was a federal requirement already. Maybe it's just a CA thing. Not certain.. My 2021 F150 hybrid had that but it was a terrible implementation - horribly annoying sound so I disabled it. I don't drive without paying attention to my surroundings so the math was easy. 100% annoying vs. 0.01% chance of causing an accident without it.

As for this car, it's not required as far as I know. CA has a process called SB100 that allows for 500 kit/custom cars per year to be registered and exempt from a lot of requirements like emissions. Needs the basics like seat belts, lights, signals, etc. though. I'll find out when I go to register it but in all my research for this car I haven't heard of that being needed.

[BradC]

177830
This is the 3 point seatbelt that FFR sells as an alternative to the Simpsons. It bolts in to the existing lugs on the floor.

Thanks. That's what I had imagined it would look like. Nice option with a roll bar.

[BradC]

Here's my seat belt mock up with the 3D printed upper bracket and the body notched out. The waterfall panel just needs upper notches and the two will make a rectangular opening where the bracket sticks out. I might machine some nice bezels for the opening later on too. I used the stock lower mount points on the chassis.

I like these belts I ordered. They have a compact retract roller (fits behind the seat), smooth operation, and are well made. The clasp section has adjustable length too. Seems like it will work out fine. Ideally the rear upper slip would be a bit higher but it is what it is. I don't want the roll bar and that's really the only practical way it can be any higher. It comes over the shoulder at a good spot and is really comfortable.

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I'll have the steel bracket parts made now. Weld them up and job done!

[BradC]

This is what the bracket looks like...

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[33fromSD]

I thought that was a federal requirement already. Maybe it's just a CA thing. Not certain.. My 2021 F150 hybrid had that but it was a terrible implementation - horribly annoying sound so I disabled it. I don't drive without paying attention to my surroundings so the math was easy. 100% annoying vs. 0.01% chance of causing an accident without it.

As for this car, it's not required as far as I know. CA has a process called SB100 that allows for 500 kit/custom cars per year to be registered and exempt from a lot of requirements like emissions. Needs the basics like seat belts, lights, signals, etc. though. I'll find out when I go to register it but in all my research for this car I haven't heard of that being needed.

Federal law for implemented mid-2021 so end-run 2021s & all new 2022 & beyond.

Love to know how you disabled it on your F150 so I can do it on my wife's Mach-e. So annoying to hear it.

Jim

[33fromSD]

Here's my seat belt mock up with the 3D printed upper bracket and the body notched out. The waterfall panel just needs upper notches and the two will make a rectangular opening where the bracket sticks out. I might machine some nice bezels for the opening later on too. I used the stock lower mount points on the chassis.

I like these belts I ordered. They have a compact retract roller (fits behind the seat), smooth operation, and are well made. The clasp section has adjustable length too. Seems like it will work out fine. Ideally the rear upper slip would be a bit higher but it is what it is. I don't want the roll bar and that's really the only practical way it can be any higher. It comes over the shoulder at a good spot and is really comfortable.

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I'll have the steel bracket parts made now. Weld them up and job done!

Looks good. Maybe you have them already but if not and you want your FFR seat cushions to last a little longer and add a little more comfort, Breeze Automotive has adjustable position seat risers with a solid MDF base to help support the cushions. Love mine.

--> https://breezeautomotive.com/shop/installation-kit-for-new-steel-frame-classic-seats/

Jim

[BradC]

Federal law for implemented mid-2021 so end-run 2021s & all new 2022 & beyond.

Love to know how you disabled it on your F150 so I can do it on my wife's Mach-e. So annoying to hear it.

Jim

I found a thread where a guy ohm'd out the speaker behind the bumper and sourced a resistor and connector to trick the computer into thinking the speaker was still there. If you just unplug the speaker it throws a code. It was a thread specific to my truck so I'm not sure if it would be the same for the Mach E. Might be. I just bought the finished kit from him vs. sourcing everything (attached link). Quick and done. Turns off the stupid back-up tone too which I don't miss at all.

https://megaohmmotorsports.bigcartel.com/product/ford-psbk-ece

[BradC]

Looks good. Maybe you have them already but if not and you want your FFR seat cushions to last a little longer and add a little more comfort, Breeze Automotive has adjustable position seat risers with a solid MDF base to help support the cushions. Love mine.

--> https://breezeautomotive.com/shop/installation-kit-for-new-steel-frame-classic-seats/

Jim

That sounds interesting but the link doesn't work. Are they still in business? A search by name also goes to dead links.

[Papa]

If you want to make noise with an EV, this is how I'd do it!

https://www.borla.com/products/active-performance-sound-for-electric-vehicles/?gclid=CjwKCAiA8OmdBhAgEiwAShr400rhbPCqBeFusxs23Sr bWl01iLa5Ff_aYJ_xGqTCYd7sAsW1NqSKpxoCULkQAvD_BwE

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=241991941252251

[BradC]

I just heard back from Jon at Pantera Electronics about the dead parking brake controller. Amazing support from him on this problem - he replied to me from out of the country on vacation which definitely was not necessary. He thinks I just had a bum controller to start since the resistor changes I made didn't work and then the chip eventually blew. He's sending a replacement out when he returns.

I did a test by applying 12V to the caliper motors with 3A fuses in line - expecting them to blow well before any issues on the calipers. They both worked and locked the brakes down perfectly before the fuses blew so they weren't the problem. Electric parking brake caliper motor current will spike when it hits mechanical resistance in either direction. The controller monitors the current and cuts power when it hits a set threshold. Mine were only traveling a short distance before the power was being cut for some reason and would not lock the wheels.

Blown chip in the yellow circle:
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[BradC]

If you want to make noise with an EV, this is how I'd do it!

https://www.borla.com/products/active-performance-sound-for-electric-vehicles/?gclid=CjwKCAiA8OmdBhAgEiwAShr400rhbPCqBeFusxs23Sr bWl01iLa5Ff_aYJ_xGqTCYd7sAsW1NqSKpxoCULkQAvD_BwE

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=241991941252251

OMG that's funny!! Maybe I could have it make George Jetson car sounds too!

[Mastertech5]

I watched an episode of All Girls Garage where they installed the Borla unit on an Mustang EV. It's programmable so you can customize the sound to your liking and gets louder as you accelerate. Way cool! It was a specially designed kit for the Mustang, rather large.

[J R Jones]

OMG that's funny!! Maybe I could have it make George Jetson car sounds too!

I understand a Tesla can broadcast fart sounds, or did, which is enough for me.
jim

[BradC]

Yeah - if they make it open configurable for sounds you can only imagine what people will come up with!

[BradC]

If they make it open configurable for sounds you can only imagine what people will come up with!

It's probably CANBUS controlled though. Beyond my pay grade to find a CAN throttle position signal from the inverter for my build. If it taps into the throttle pedal directly then maybe. It would have to be reasonable price though since it's kind of just for laughs if I were to do that.

[Nigel Allen]

Here's my seat belt mock up with the 3D printed upper bracket and the body notched out. The waterfall panel just needs upper notches and the two will make a rectangular opening where the bracket sticks out. I might machine some nice bezels for the opening later on too. I used the stock lower mount points on the chassis.

I like these belts I ordered. They have a compact retract roller (fits behind the seat), smooth operation, and are well made. The clasp section has adjustable length too. Seems like it will work out fine. Ideally the rear upper slip would be a bit higher but it is what it is. I don't want the roll bar and that's really the only practical way it can be any higher. It comes over the shoulder at a good spot and is really comfortable.

177839 177838 177841

I'll have the steel bracket parts made now. Weld them up and job done!

G'day Brad,

Looks like you are well under control with a seat belt solution, but I thought i would just pass on my Roadster solution:

Retractable seat belts are required by law in South Australia. However, on the roadster, the seat belt shoulder strap is too low when installed in the conventional position, to meet the requirements. The workaround is to fit the shoulder strap in the centre of the car, where the body curvature is highest, per the pic below. Not the best photos, however you can see the red seat belt release button alongside the drivers seat. The retractors are mounted in the trunk.

Surprisingly you get used to it quickly, just like the reverse speedometer.

177870177869

Thanks for all the detail you have put into documenting your build. It has been great to follow along. I work with industrial inverters / battery systems. It is great to see a fun application like a hot rod. So much more exciting than a boring UPS. :)

Best of luck with your firmware issues.

Cheers,

Nige

[33fromSD]

Thanks Brad

[33fromSD]

That sounds interesting but the link doesn't work. Are they still in business? A search by name also goes to dead links.

Weird, link works for me going back into the thread and clicking on it.

Any ways, yes, they are still in business, they are out of Massachusetts. Here is another link, but worse case if that still doesn't work, then Google "Breeze Automotive" and they should come up.

https://breezeautomotive.com

Jim

[J R Jones]

If they make it open configurable for sounds you can only imagine what people will come up with!

It's probably CANBUS controlled though. Beyond my pay grade to find a CAN throttle position signal from the inverter for my build. If it taps into the throttle pedal directly then maybe. It would have to be reasonable price though since it's kind of just for laughs if I were to do that.

This video suggests a differing format, requiring windows down for broadcast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqkURdcNGC4

Windows down adds to the deception, repulsing if not warning bystanders.

There is however a warning mode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_DYT77pEW4

Low Tech?
jim

[BradC]

Weird, link works for me going back into the thread and clicking on it.

Any ways, yes, they are still in business, they are out of Massachusetts. Here is another link, but worse case if that still doesn't work, then Google "Breeze Automotive" and they should come up.

https://breezeautomotive.com

Jim

Yeah - the link works now for me too. Maybe just something with my home PC at that time. Thanks!

[BradC]

G'day Brad,

Looks like you are well under control with a seat belt solution, but I thought i would just pass on my Roadster solution:

Retractable seat belts are required by law in South Australia. However, on the roadster, the seat belt shoulder strap is too low when installed in the conventional position, to meet the requirements. The workaround is to fit the shoulder strap in the centre of the car, where the body curvature is highest, per the pic below. Not the best photos, however you can see the red seat belt release button alongside the drivers seat. The retractors are mounted in the trunk.

Surprisingly you get used to it quickly, just like the reverse speedometer.

177870177869

Thanks for all the detail you have put into documenting your build. It has been great to follow along. I work with industrial inverters / battery systems. It is great to see a fun application like a hot rod. So much more exciting than a boring UPS. :)

Best of luck with your firmware issues.

Cheers,

Nige

That's a great solution too. Very clean build - thanks for sharing and for the feedback! The Hot Rod has the frame members rising up on the outer sides already so it makes more sense to tie into that and keep them in the traditional orientation for this chassis.

[BradC]

This video suggests a differing format, requiring windows down for broadcast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqkURdcNGC4

Windows down adds to the deception, repulsing if not warning bystanders.

There is however a warning mode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_DYT77pEW4

Low Tech?
jim

That's funny.. Even better with the passenger side seat speakers.

[BradC]

Got the firmware update this morning. I'm working form home today and while on a boring call I couldn't help myself - had to update it and see. All good now! That's a big relief.

I had the iPad set up with an automation script to open the controller app directly when power is connected. I have it connected to unswitched power in the car so it stays charged always with just a momentary NC switch that breaks power temporarily. When I start up the car, I'd have to hit that button or the iPad screen to bring up the controller app. Totally fine but not as slick as I'd like. I was looking for other options on a different boring meeting yesterday at work (there's a theme here I think.. ha) and I came across time delay relays. Had never thought about that before. I ended up buying one that's programmable. I'll set that up to be normally connected on the switched side iPad power. When the key switch power comes on, it will disrupt the iPad power for 1 second and then restore it. That will make the iPad screen come on when I turn the key which will eliminate the extra manual switch. Much slicker! Still no way that I can find to make the display lock automatically when I shut off the car but I do have a small accessibility button enabled on the screen so I don't need access to the side buttons.

[BradC]

Got the seat belt brackets yesterday. All welded up and installed now.

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I have a cover for the 12V battery printing right now. Once that's done I'll put the seats back in and it'll be ready for a higher speed drive test. I was hesitant to go very fast in my court for obvious reasons, plus no belts in it. The chassis shop that did the rear suspension final welding has about a half mile road in front that's pretty isolated. I'm going to ask them if I can trailer it over and do some drive tests. Technically not legal but I doubt anyone will care - it's not like it makes a bunch of noise! Weather is supposed to clear up late next week finally so I'll see if I can plan that.

[BradC]

If all goes well with the drive I'm shooting to get it over to the body shop the first week or two of February. I decided I don't want to do any of that here. They've done a bunch of 33's before and know all the tricks so I'm just going to hand it off. I'll definitely strip it down to just a roller chassis - I don't want body shop dust in all the battery boxes and wiring. That's a nightmare to get clean. I'll have a lot to work on still while it's there, plus they'll be done with the chassis relatively quickly and will finish up body work and paint on a body buck. I'll get the chassis powder coated and work on final assembly while the body in being worked. That will be the really fun stage I think.

[BradC]

12V battery box is in. It was a 70 hour print job so I'm glad it fits! The lid is machined from some extra 3/16" G10 I had laying around. Covered in leftover vinyl wrap I had from the underbody panels. I might add a pluggable charge port connector now that I think about it. Make it easy to plug in a maintenance charger for the battery when the car sits for a while.

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Yesterday I made some underbody skids to help protect the lower battery boxes. These are expendable aluminum rails running the length of the lower boxes in case I high center on a tall speed bump or hit something on the road. Much easier to replace or repaint these than have a damaged battery box. The front wedge parts are 3D printed in fiber stranded nylon with heavy layers of carbon fiber filament embedded for strength. I could have machined these in aluminum but since I have access to the printer at work why not make it easy!

178213 178212

[BradC]

I got the replacement parking brake controller board and it didn't work either. Frustrating. Pantera Electronics has been great about it but there's just some incompatibility with the version of calipers I have I guess. They said I could ship my calipers to them (in PA) and they would work on it, but I don't want to mess with that. They're going to just refund my money if I ship it back. Fair enough - I'm done with messing with it. The alternative is to wire both to a momentary polarity reversing switch and put resettable 5A fuses on each side. That ensures they both have fairly close clamp forces and will automatically stop at a repeatable point each time. You can do the same thing with power window switches but I think I would need one per side and that's just not a good option.

[BradC]

The timed relay I got for the iPad power up worked but it drained my 12V battery like crazy. It was supposed to have a very low static current draw but that's clearly not the case. I measured it at 150mA which is nuts. Not a good option for my 20 AH battery.

Went back to researching those and found this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C4ZP23D/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This thing is really cool. You can program it to do tons of different functions with an additional programmer board. The price was about $40 for both which isn't bad at all, and Timers.Shop had great support with some questions I asked by email before I bought it. I thought I'd post it up to share since it has other potential uses for custom cars. I programmed it to have the output power on at all times, and interrupt it for 2 seconds when I turn on the ignition. That triggers the iPad script and brings the screen up automatically when I hit the ignition switch.

The 12V battery charge/maintenance port went here next to the main charge port. Simple enough..

178448

I 3D printed a temporary center instrument panel and just zip tied it in place here for the road testing I need to do. Seems like it will look nice in the dash. I'll machine the final one in aluminum of course.

178447

[Mastertech5]

Looks great!

[FF33rod]

Sounds like maybe you found the solution you wanted but in the future you may want to look at magnetic bi stable latching relays. These are designed to stay in an open or closed state without continuous current.

Steve

[BradC]

Sounds like maybe you found the solution you wanted but in the future you may want to look at magnetic bi stable latching relays. These are designed to stay in an open or closed state without continuous current.

Steve

Thanks for the suggestion. So far the new switch seems to be doing the trick.

[BradC]

Well I got the car out on the back road by the chassis shop Wednesday for maybe 45 minutes of test runs. Got it up to about 45-50 mph without any issues. Acceleration is incredible. It pins you back pretty hard both from a stop and rolling. I only had the battery charged to maybe 50-60% still so it will just get better at full charge. It hooked up a lot better than it did in my court which has a bunch of small pebbles from the crap seal job they did a few years ago. Brakes were fine, but I forgot to dial up the regen braking and play around with it - ugh. I know it's working though. I wasn't able to do much higher speed cornering but I did swerve it back and forth pretty hard on the road and handling seemed great. Not surprising though since I didn't change the front suspension, and the rear is still using the FFR coilovers. Took it over some bumps (pot holes aren't hard to find in CA) and everything was fine in terms of vertical travel. No creaks or pops even though I still only have two bolts holding the body on.

I have a few more small things to do in the next week and then I'll tear it all apart and get it over to the body shop.

The front fenders I got look nice but they bounce around a bit more than I would like. It's coming from both the fender itself and from the mounting bracket. This morning I made stiffener plates out of 1/8" G10 for the back side and that made a huge difference. Eliminated most of not all of the weakness on the fender side. I think they're pretty good now but I'll spend a little time this weekend looking at ways to stiffen up the steel brackets.

178712

[Mastertech5]

Looks like you're getting out the little gremlins and getting stuff to work on your terms.

[FF33rod]

Hey Brad. The FFR fenders use an L shaped bracket attaching to the inside of the fender in 2 places, makes it quite solid.

Also, a heads up on rock chips - with the bicycle style fenders, the front wheels kick up all sorts of crap including pebbles and other items that chip the front of the rear fender and, when turning, the side of the car. To help reduce it, get the rear of the front fenders as close to the ground as you can. I cut mine to about 4 inches I think it was and it was way too high, added black mud flaps to extend them about 1" off the road and that really helped

Steve

[BradC]

Looks like you're getting out the little gremlins and getting stuff to work on your terms.

Tryin' to!!

[BradC]

Another thing I wanted to get done before it goes to paint is the center console. That way I can get it over to an upholstery shop with no rush. This is just an armrest mostly with one, maybe two, cup holders and vinyl padded pockets in the front and back for my phone and any papers that need to stay in the car. I debated about making a door on it but I just don't need to store anything in my toy car. I had that storage on my Camaro and I never put anything in it. The upholstery will look cleaner without a door too.

This is the design:

178967

A friend of mine is a cabinet maker so he had tons of scrap MDF and the tooling to make nice joints. We did all the straight cutting this morning at his place and then I machined the parts with rounds on my CNC. Need to let the front curved part sections glue overnight (they're pinned with dowel too) and then once I get the cup holders I ordered I'll decide on location and machine the hole(s). Once it's all glued/screwed together and set I'll take it back over to my friend's place for outer sanding and to router the rounds on the edges. The console will slide hook on a part I'll make bolted to the car floor and then have screws that secure to the top of the 12V battery box. The cup holder holes will be my access for bolting it down. Should be secure enough plus it's bolstered by the seats a bit too.

Parts cut and joint slots added:

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Sitting in the car:

178969

Machining the front curved parts and the rounds on the side panels:

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Clamped to cure overnight:

178973

Total cost so far - $15.07 for cup holder inserts. Ha! I love projects like this.

[BradC]

Hey Brad. The FFR fenders use an L shaped bracket attaching to the inside of the fender in 2 places, makes it quite solid.

Also, a heads up on rock chips - with the bicycle style fenders, the front wheels kick up all sorts of crap including pebbles and other items that chip the front of the rear fender and, when turning, the side of the car. To help reduce it, get the rear of the front fenders as close to the ground as you can. I cut mine to about 4 inches I think it was and it was way too high, added black mud flaps to extend them about 1" off the road and that really helped

Steve

I know - unfortunately it's not possible to go down low in the rear with these fenders though. They're form over function. I'll have impact resistant film on the body in problem areas and cross my fingers it does ok. Thanks for the input!

[BradC]

I have the car almost torn all back apart now. I have to drop the motor still and then I'll put the ugly stock Tesla rear suspension parts on for now so I can work on Cerakoting the MPP stuff while it's gone. It was good to go through the process of a full disassembly because it highlighted some problem areas. I made a bunch of changes to wire routing mostly so reassembly will be cleaner, and also to make any later maintenance work I end up needing a bit easier. It heads to the body shop on Thursday!

[Papa]

Maybe FFR will invite you to display the finished product next year at SEMA? It could be a great opportunity for them should they ever decide to offer an EV of their own.

Dave

[jayguy]

They had an EV hotrod way way back in 2009, would be cool to compare the 2 though, old EV tech versus newer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpqvpqklyk0

[BradC]

Maybe FFR will invite you to display the finished product next year at SEMA? It could be a great opportunity for them should they ever decide to offer an EV of their own.

Dave

That would be really cool! Who knows.. I talked to Dave Smith about it at SEMA last year. Was hard to gauge what he thought about it but I could understand him being hesitant to show something they don't produce. There was the new SEMA Electrified area though that could definitely use more cars this year.

[BradC]

They had an EV hotrod way way back in 2009, would be cool to compare the 2 though, old EV tech versus newer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpqvpqklyk0

Yeah, I saw that car in my research for this project. Very cool for the time, and things have come a LONG way since then. Thanks for posting the link!

[jayguy]

You bet! I saw that one in person that year, and talked to Jim S. in the booth, but still haven't been able to get my own kit ordered. I really like what you're doing with yours, and can't wait to see it all done.

[BradC]

That would have been cool to see that one. They put a ton of work into that build. I bought my packs and all the electronics - but they built them from individual A123 cells AND designed all the control and BMS systems. Crazy.

Thanks for the feedback on mine. I'm really looking forward to getting on the final assembly. It should be about 5-6 weeks before I get the chassis back, week or two getting that blasted and powder coated, and then I can start assembly. It should work out just right by the time the body is done - I hope.

[BradC]

All ready for the body shop tomorrow. Glad I kept the Tesla suspension. I almost got rid of it all.

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Back to a big pile of parts - at least all the body panels that have been laying around are out of here.

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[BradC]

Dropped off! The body panels are all in the shop.

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[Mastertech5]

Can't wait to see the final product!

[BradC]

Little bit of refurbishing on some parts today. I media blasted the Tesla rear rotors and then had them turned a couple thou (they weren't warped, just ugly). A little high temp caliper paint to match the front rotors and they look brand new. I need to bake them at 200F for an hour to set the paint still though. I'll let them out-gas for a day or so and hopefully it won't ruin our kitchen oven - I hear divorce attorneys are expensive so hopefully it's fine. Ha

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Same with the calipers. This is before and after glass bead blasting. It leaves a really nice finish. I'll see if it holds though. I may need to coat them with the high temp paint but I'll leave it as is for now and see how it lasts. I did the caliper frames too. They all look brand new too.

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The front calipers were new and looked pretty good in bare Aluminum but the bead blasting made an improvement there too. The caliper frames are steel so they needed the high temp paint to match the calipers. I'll have to bake these too.

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[DanQ]

I see the Stewart Transport truck in the photo of your cul-de-sac. I have a 33 HR kit coming sometime in June, and I live in a street with only one way in and out, with a cul-de-sac also. Can the Stewart truck make that turn around OK? I measures ours and it is 90' diameter, or 45' radius. If he cannot turn around in ours, he would have to back out onto a busy 45 MPH road. Just wondering how well he can get into out neighborhood and turn around to get out.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8205593,-93.6179474,115m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

[BradC]

Looks like my court is about 80ft diameter. The driver was able to turn around no problem so I think you should be ok.

[33fromSD]

Big Rigs can turn pretty sharp, should be fine.

Jim

[BradC]

More small stuff getting done while the car is gone..

The center console is sanded all even and the corners rounded with a router. I'll take it over to the upholstery shop next week.

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Cover plates for the lower control arm spring pockets are machined. These will either be black or the color of the control arms. Not sure yet.

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I took the battery pack panels with the striped Cerakote fail over to a professional place the other day. They had a minimum job price that was higher than what they technically should cost to coat, so I threw in all the MPP rear suspension parts as well. That will save me a bunch of time on those. I wasn't looking forward to doing them anyway. Still a very reasonable price for the total of 18 parts I'm having done and well worth it not having to prep and coat them myself.

[BradC]

As with any project car, picking the color is a chore. I've been going through tons of options the last few weeks. Originally I was thinking Washington Blue but there really isn't a standard paint code for it, being a 30's Ford color. There are no cars I know of to go look at in person, my body/paint guy said we'd have to spend time (and money) doing mixes and spray outs, plus it's a darker color which I don't think I want again. So I think the blue is out..

I'm pretty sure I want to go with a modern non-metallic lighter gray. It'll go well with my wheels, the FFR black interior, and the Cerakote Titanium color. There are several versions from different manufacturers - all with repeatable color codes which is a plus. Some flop green and some flop blue in certain lights which I don't think I want, so as of now I'm leaning towards a Mercedes Alpine Grey. I went and looked at this car at a dealer here the other day and it's a really nice version.

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This car was only $200k in case you wanted to pick one up for a spare weekend car...

[progmgr1]

Yeah, I've been seeing what I call "dove gray" on a lot of small sedans over the past year. Everything from Audis to various Japanese and Korean cars. I really like the color and think it looks kind of classy.

Keith HR #894

[Dan Cooper]

I've been planning this build for quite a while now and things are finally starting to get real. Sold my finished previous project car two weeks ago so I have the budget and space freed up for a new one. My 33 Hot Rod build date is just a month away now too. I picked up the rear drive unit I found for the project yesterday which is the first physical part in my possession - so I think I can officially start the build thread!

After months of researching feasibility of what I want to do I've nailed down the high level design of this project. I've done enough internal combustion projects and I wanted a completely new challenge, so this one is gonna be electrified. Here is the high level plan:

Motor:
Tesla Model 3 Performance rear drive unit. This seems like the best option for the 33 after researching and evaluating several options. I was lucky and found a really clean 980 motor (performance version) from a 2018 Model 3 with only 27,400 miles on it at a local dismantler. This has a 265KW (~355Hp) max output with the controller I'm looking at, and of course instant torque. Should be more than enough power to destroy the rear tires on command in what I think will end up being a 2500-2700lb car.

Rear Suspension:
I spent hours and hours working to see if any rear transverse electric motor would fit in with the FFR IRS setup, even with modifications, and it's quite clear that it just won't work. Factory Five took a look at the options I was considering as well and they came to the same conclusion. So I'm on my own for the rear bouncy part that holds the wheels. I considered using the entire Model 3 rear subframe/suspension but the track width is just too wide and it would look like kind of a hack job IMO. So, what I'm going to do is ditch the Tesla subframe and fab up the rear chassis for the Model 3 IRS. I'll 3D scan the complete rear subframe to make accurate CAD files, move the pivot points in to shorten the track width, and then redesign the rear of the chassis to accept the motor and suspension. This is pretty ambitious for me and I've had a few 'what the hell am I doing' moments - but I'm confident I can do it.

Batteries and other stuff:
With great help from Michael Bream at EV West in southern CA, at this point I'm planning on their LG Chem Super Cell battery packs. They will be wired 13 or 14 in series, 2 parallel which will get the required 400V and should provide about a 130ish mile range. That's plenty for a car like this. My top motor controller right now is the EV Controls T-2C. AEM has a really nice setup for the Model S motor but according to them they're not working on support for the Model 3 unfortunately. I'm still undecided on the BMS and charger.

Images and more to follow...

Brad, I am really impressed with what you have done. I too have been interested in the 33' project with the Tesla motor. I have emailed EV West a few times, Michael suggested the Small Tesla motor. It seems like trying to get some good dimensions from FFR is a challenge. I understand that because they are building the chassis to sell based on their engineering. What I was trying to find out based on your experience was if the Small Tesla Motor would fit into the IRS they offer as an option. I am trying to determine which way to go so I can configure my kit. I am not an engineer, but have built a few ICE projects. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Dan Cooper

[BradC]

Brad, I am really impressed with what you have done. I too have been interested in the 33' project with the Tesla motor. I have emailed EV West a few times, Michael suggested the Small Tesla motor. It seems like trying to get some good dimensions from FFR is a challenge. I understand that because they are building the chassis to sell based on their engineering. What I was trying to find out based on your experience was if the Small Tesla Motor would fit into the IRS they offer as an option. I am trying to determine which way to go so I can configure my kit. I am not an engineer, but have built a few ICE projects. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Dan Cooper

Hi Dan,

I went through several possible motors as options scoping this project out - including the Tesla SDU and LDU. Nothing would fit within the FFR IRS. None were even close actually which is why I did what I did. I settled on the Model 3 because it was the best fit IMO once I abandoned the FFR IRS. It has great power and is a more efficient motor than the SDU/LDU. Plus there were nice options for upgraded suspension components.

In my investigations I took some measurements from a friend's Cobra, got some actual 33 IRS measurements from a member on this forum, and had feedback from FFR engineering. I sent Jesper at FFR a few motor CAD models I found for rough check since I didn't have a model of the 33 IRS and he agreed nothing was even close. The suspension pivot points are just too narrow, having been designed to only clear a differential. I looked at things like rotating the motor and modifying the IRS - nothing was viable.

I think EV West is working on a Mustang based IRS kit for the SDU. A friend of mine is doing a '73 Capri and he's researching options too. Michael told him about that but I don't have any details and I'm not sure where it is in terms of readiness.

Whatever you decide on, if you do a rear motor electric build I wouldn't bother ordering the FFR IRS. Just go with the basic 4 link. That leaves you the most options for something custom.

[Dan Cooper]

Brad, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience. I didn't want to order my kit and figure it out the hard way that what i wanted to do would be a bigger challenge than I care to get into. So what I understand is just order the basic 4 link with out the rear end. EV WEST now lists the Model 3 kit in their catalog. I am sure their are more things to order and fabricate to get this to fit the chassis. Thanks for the information.

[BradC]

No problem.. Not sure if you read this earlier but I actually ended up with the IRS frame by accident. It was irritating because it cost to get it removed cleanly but it also gave me a chance to look at it up close. Easy to verify though what I had already sorted out that there's just no room for a transverse motor.

I'll look forward to seeing what way you go with it. If you do a build thread and think about it let me know. I'd like to follow it.

[Dan Cooper]

Brad, The last several days I have been going through your build. I am very impressed with your talents and attention to detail. I agree with your thoughts on a previous post about the crate motors. It makes sense to eliminate the extra rotating parts and make room for batteries. That is also why I would like to do a rear motor install. I understand you have a lot of time and effort in designing and CAD work in several areas of your build. I was wondering if you would be interested in working with me on the motor install being you have the engineering worked out. I realize your time and effort is worth something. Let me know if you would like to email, text or phone call to discuss this. Thanks Dan

[BradC]

Thank you for the comments!

I'll send you a PM..

[BradC]

I went out to see the car today. It's an hour+ away so I'll only do that every few weeks probably. I had to take some small parts I made to them too. Doesn't look like much progress but they've done a lot of work fixing up the bad glasswork on it and reshaping some problem spots. Exactly why I took it to a place that's done lots of FFR cars before. They've already seen and made all the common problems and mistakes on cars before mine! Haha It's almost at the point now where they're ready to put the body back on the chassis and fit up all the panels. Should be another 3 weeks or so and I'll go back to pick up the chassis. That's when I'll get busy again for sure.

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[BradC]

Got the center console back from upholstery. I haven't painted the 3D printed phone pocket on the front yet but it will be black. It's been too cold and rainy here to paint.

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[IanN]

Thank you for the comments!

I'll send you a PM..


Brad, The last several days I have been going through your build. I am very impressed with your talents and attention to detail. I agree with your thoughts on a previous post about the crate motors. It makes sense to eliminate the extra rotating parts and make room for batteries. That is also why I would like to do a rear motor install. I understand you have a lot of time and effort in designing and CAD work in several areas of your build. I was wondering if you would be interested in working with me on the motor install being you have the engineering worked out. I realize your time and effort is worth something. Let me know if you would like to email, text or phone call to discuss this. Thanks Dan

Count me in too! You're work on this is awesome and I think there will be several people who want to follow in your footsteps.

[BradC]

Count me in too! You're work on this is awesome and I think there will be several people who want to follow in your footsteps.

Wow - ok. Appreciate the feedback! I hadn't even thought about this until Dan's post but I'm open to it. I'm working on putting together something now for the motor and suspension. PM me if you want to discuss it more.

[BradC]

After some discussions with EV West I've decided to change up my dash display plan. I'm going to ditch the iPad option and go with the AEM CD7 CANBUS display. The iPad option for the T-2C controller is pretty cool, but also kind of limited. I want to use the new CAN shunt resistor that EV West is working on to make my battery state of charge display more cleanly integrated (that's how all this started...) and the CD7 will work out much better. It has fully user customizable UI so I'll have unlimited options for how I want it to look and I can have switchable pages for the more secondary information. It also has an odometer function which is something the T-2C/iPad doesn't have. I'll have to sell the GPS speedometer I bought but this will be a much nicer setup. I tend to change my mind a lot and iterate my way to final designs so this will give me endless flexibility. It's also just a little smaller than the iPad mini which will fit better in the center of the 33 dash anyway. It's an added expense I wasn't planning on but such is life with custom cars...

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This is a cool video EV West sent showing it in a custom application keeping in line with the originality of a VW Thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQaLoDVmMVs

[Tom Veale]

Hi Brad,

Obsessing over color and style seems to be something pretty common. I drove myself to a greater level of insanity doing that. Remember that #007 was one of the first of FFR's Street Rods to be finished and licensed for the street, so I didn't have a lot of pretty, finished ones from which to get ideas.

- First, I wanted to go 2-Tone, partly because there were so many beautiful two tone cars in the '30s. The other reason was that I felt the car's 'billboard' of tall, rather flat sides needed a break. I visited the car museum in Las Vegas (can't remember the name) that was left-overs from the old Harrad museum, I think. They had a dozen or more '30s cars with beautiful two tone paint schemes. It also reminded me that those cars also had two tone paint on the Wheels. Hence my choice for painted Steelies.

- Okay, next was attempting to find the right way of dividing the two tones in a way that honored the '30s cars but was a bit more 'modern' in concept. I don't know how many sketches I did and photocopies of the car's outline that I colored with marking pens, but it was a lot. Then I got thinking about all the math and science I've used in my life and came up with a "Sine Wave" curve for the divider.

- I had no idea of how I was going to shape the sine wave on the car's exterior but Bob Gibson of Total Auto Body had the technique. I sat in a chair watching and he laid on tape where I wanted it to go. He then took big sheets of paper and covered the side. Next he used a pencil to make a Grave Rubbing of the tape line. A few minutes of careful scissor work along the pencil line and we had a template for the other side of the car.

Attached are some of the sketches and also ideas I got from looking at '30s cars. Also, I found asking opinions of my ideas really didn't help!!!!

Color choice and style will haunt you until you make a decision!

:-)

Best wishes,
Tom Veale
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[33fromSD]

Hi Brad,

Obsessing over color and style seems to be something pretty common. I drove myself to a greater level of insanity doing that. Remember that #007 was one of the first of FFR's Street Rods to be finished and licensed for the street, so I didn't have a lot of pretty, finished ones from which to get ideas.

- First, I wanted to go 2-Tone, partly because there were so many beautiful two tone cars in the '30s. The other reason was that I felt the car's 'billboard' of tall, rather flat sides needed a break. I visited the car museum in Las Vegas (can't remember the name) that was left-overs from the old Harrad museum, I think. They had a dozen or more '30s cars with beautiful two tone paint schemes. It also reminded me that those cars also had two tone paint on the Wheels. Hence my choice for painted Steelies.

- Okay, next was attempting to find the right way of dividing the two tones in a way that honored the '30s cars but was a bit more 'modern' in concept. I don't know how many sketches I did and photocopies of the car's outline that I colored with marking pens, but it was a lot. Then I got thinking about all the math and science I've used in my life and came up with a "Sine Wave" curve for the divider.

- I had no idea of how I was going to shape the sine wave on the car's exterior but Bob Gibson of Total Auto Body had the technique. I sat in a chair watching and he laid on tape where I wanted it to go. He then took big sheets of paper and covered the side. Next he used a pencil to make a Grave Rubbing of the tape line. A few minutes of careful scissor work along the pencil line and we had a template for the other side of the car.

Attached are some of the sketches and also ideas I got from looking at '30s cars. Also, I found asking opinions of my ideas really didn't help!!!!

Color choice and style will haunt you until you make a decision!

:-)

Best wishes,
Tom Veale


Yup, color choice was the hardest part on mine too. At some point you just take the leap of faith. In my case it was a little easier since I painted it myself, so if i didn't like my choice I would just redo it for the cost of the paint and my time which still wasn't cheap (~$4K for material) but still cheaper than the $10K-$25K you going to pay a body shop to do it.

Jim

[BradC]

Hi Brad,

Obsessing over color and style seems to be something pretty common. I drove myself to a greater level of insanity doing that. Remember that #007 was one of the first of FFR's Street Rods to be finished and licensed for the street, so I didn't have a lot of pretty, finished ones from which to get ideas.

- First, I wanted to go 2-Tone, partly because there were so many beautiful two tone cars in the '30s. The other reason was that I felt the car's 'billboard' of tall, rather flat sides needed a break. I visited the car museum in Las Vegas (can't remember the name) that was left-overs from the old Harrad museum, I think. They had a dozen or more '30s cars with beautiful two tone paint schemes. It also reminded me that those cars also had two tone paint on the Wheels. Hence my choice for painted Steelies.

- Okay, next was attempting to find the right way of dividing the two tones in a way that honored the '30s cars but was a bit more 'modern' in concept. I don't know how many sketches I did and photocopies of the car's outline that I colored with marking pens, but it was a lot. Then I got thinking about all the math and science I've used in my life and came up with a "Sine Wave" curve for the divider.

- I had no idea of how I was going to shape the sine wave on the car's exterior but Bob Gibson of Total Auto Body had the technique. I sat in a chair watching and he laid on tape where I wanted it to go. He then took big sheets of paper and covered the side. Next he used a pencil to make a Grave Rubbing of the tape line. A few minutes of careful scissor work along the pencil line and we had a template for the other side of the car.

Attached are some of the sketches and also ideas I got from looking at '30s cars. Also, I found asking opinions of my ideas really didn't help!!!!

Color choice and style will haunt you until you make a decision!

:-)

Best wishes,
Tom Veale
181886
181887
181888
181889
181890
181891
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Thank you! Yes, color is always a huge decision. I need to decide final within probably two months.

How have those McQueen fenders worked out for you in terms of rock chips on the rear/side? Do you have protective film on it?

[Tom Veale]

Hi Brad,
I covered the rear fenders with a protective film that's done a remarkable job. It's not going to prevent a chunk of broken concrete from doing some damage but generally it's pretty good with small stuff, bugs and cow manure!
If the front fenders had been a bit closer to the ground I think I'd get a bit less stuff thrown against the sides and rear fenders. I don't think I'm ready for Mud Flaps! Rounding corners where there's pebbles and sand, some will get tossed in the side window opening.
I've really loved your build here on FFForum. I recently linked it to a web site where I follow all things "Cars." They were discussing wrecked EVs and what should be done with their guts. I suggested they look at what you've managed with the Tesla 3 running gear.
Best wishes,
Tom Veale

[BradC]

Thanks, that's pretty in line with what I was expecting with these fenders. I'm ok with the form over function sacrifice with them. I was planning to have film done on the rear fenders and maybe the sides of the car.

Appreciate the comments on my build!!

[Tom Veale]

Hi Brad,
I'll take some pics of the accumulated road rash since 2009 when I get 007 out of storage. It's still in hibernation right now.
Best wishes,
Tom

[BradC]

Thank you!

[BradC]

For those of you with completed cars - do you just use the standard pull pin door releases or lever style releases higher up in the doors? The body shop just called me asking which way I planned to go. I hadn't even looked at door release yet so I wasn't familiar with it.

I think levers might be nice but I'll have to research which ones. If anyone has suggestions I'd appreciate it!

[BradC]

Something like this maybe...

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aul-315534

[progmgr1]

Brad,
I opted to go for shaved (no exterior) handles and door poppers (solenoids). IMO a cleaner look and less susceptible to damage.
Keith HR #894

[BradC]

Brad,
I opted to go for shaved (no exterior) handles and door poppers (solenoids). IMO a cleaner look and less susceptible to damage.
Keith HR #894

Thanks! I’m definitely not doing outer handles. Solenoids are a thought too since I’ll have no top.

[j33ptj]

Since you are installing tesla stuff,... maybe you can use their door handles too!!!

[Just 1 More]

I'm planning on using inner pulls and electric poppers. 182012182013

[BradC]

Since you are installing tesla stuff,... maybe you can use their door handles too!!!

Interesting...

[BradC]

I'm planning on using inner pulls and electric poppers. 182012182013

I saw those too in my searching around last night. They look nice. Thanks!

[BradC]

Got most of my parts back from Cerakote today. The MPP suspension parts came out perfect but the professional place had the same problem I did with the larger flat panels - uneven coloring anywhere the spray overlaps. I sent an email to Cerakote to see if they have any advice. If that doesn't pan out I'll just look into finding a powder coat match as close as possible to this color and just do that. The place I took them was very cool about it and they'll powder coat them at no extra cost. I feel bad about it because they've definitely lost money on this experiment but we can both just call it a learning experience I guess...

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[BradC]

The body shop called me today with an interesting problem....

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I wrote an email to FFR telling them they sent me the wrong side panels, sorry that I hadn't caught it before but telling them I need them to send me the right panels. I figured it would probably take forever and set me back a long time in body. I had checked the deluxe grill manual and saw pictures of the right panels but no mention of them otherwise. Before I sent the email I thought to check the main manual and found a page that said you need to trim the side panels to fit your grill option. Glad I checked first and avoided appearing super dumb to FFR - just on my build thread.... Turns out this is the first deluxe grill the body shop has done so they weren't aware either.

On a good note - they have the doors fitted up! The owner said they were a total pain in the arse - and they've done hundreds of FFR cars (mostly cobras though). Yet another reason why I'm glad I just sent it in for body work.

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[Mastertech5]

Looking good Brad. While I was reading your last post I was saying to myself, didn't he read the manual but then I saw you figured out the trimming of the side panels. Carry on! I think the hoods are different lengths between the 2 grills though, maybe not?

[BradC]

Looking good Brad. While I was reading your last post I was saying to myself, didn't he read the manual but then I saw you figured out the trimming of the side panels. Carry on! I think the hoods are different lengths between the 2 grills though, maybe not?

Yeah, as a general rule I try to avoid reading manuals but I made an exception in this case...

[BradC]

Got a call again from the body shop today because they realized they were missing some hood hardware. Of course I found it at home. I decided to take a drive out there to drop it off and check out the car in person, get some more pictures. He's thinking another two weeks and then I can go get the chassis.

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[Mastertech5]

Progress! It seems funny to not see a V8 power plant stuffed in the front!

[BradC]

I keep thinking the front side panels seem a bit plain so I started looking into some options to break up the long flat sides visually. I found some fiberglass louvered panels that could be grafted in but wasn't crazy about how they would look. After a lot of modeling up different design ideas I've settled on this. The body shop said the holes would be easy to cut if I made a template. It's all sized so everything can be machined on my CNC. I think it'll look nice with a recessed bezel and vent panel sunk in a little. This will allow me to change the vent panels later if I want a different pattern or color.

We'll bond a thin panel with pressed in flush threaded studs to the inside of the side panels. Then the bezel and vent plate will just bolt in place - no visible hardware on the outside.

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Chassis is supposed to be ready to pick up this week. It'll be good to get going again on the build process!

[Tom Veale]

Hi Brad, Re: Engine Bay Side Panels (or in your case, "Battery Bay")

Here's what I did:
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Using masking tape I made a parallelagram and cut it out with a sabersaw. Then after trimming the edge I glassed the panel back in with an inch opening at the back.
I considered putting in a second one but this venting was enough to get rid of surplus engine heat and keep it from entering the footwell.

You mentioned heat dissipation from the batteries, so some form of venting will be nice to have.

Best wishes,
Tom

[BradC]

Hi Brad, Re: Engine Bay Side Panels (or in your case, "Battery Bay")

Here's what I did:
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Using masking tape I made a parallelagram and cut it out with a sabersaw. Then after trimming the edge I glassed the panel back in with an inch opening at the back.
I considered putting in a second one but this venting was enough to get rid of surplus engine heat and keep it from entering the footwell.

You mentioned heat dissipation from the batteries, so some form of venting will be nice to have.

Best wishes,
Tom

Hi Tom,

I saw yours (and that same picture) in my searching the other day! I don't remember where though. That's a good approach. Seems like it would do well venting engine heat.

Mine is just cosmetic but it will vent a little. I don't need much supposedly, plus the battery box venting is front to back. Guess I'll find out eventually how well it does!

Thanks,
Brad.

[BradC]

Had to take a trip out to the shop today to bring them the side vent template I made. Still on track for getting the chassis on Friday.

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[BradC]

No go on picking up the chassis today. Body shop needs a few more days to get everything perfect. That's fine with me. Next week hopefully!

[Mastertech5]

The best things in life take the most time.

[BradC]

Got my battery box panels back today - finally! Lesson learned for both me and the professional shop that Cerakote C-105 Titanium does not like large aluminum surfaces. Had to go powder coat. The match isn't perfect but it's actually better than I was expecting. Those are shadows not stripes in the images.

You'll only see the powder coated surfaces when it's in the car. From the bottom, the cerakoted panels will match the suspension and you won't really see the powder coated panels. So this'll work...

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[Tom Veale]

Hi Brad, Your note reminded me I'd done some looking for louvers back about a decade ago. I put together this quicky album:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=610
Several FFR Hot Rods with side vents as well as some other cars I saw at a Cruise Night at McDonalds in Plymouth, WI.
Best wishes,
Tom

[BradC]

Hi Brad, Your note reminded me I'd done some looking for louvers back about a decade ago. I put together this quicky album:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=610
Several FFR Hot Rods with side vents as well as some other cars I saw at a Cruise Night at McDonalds in Plymouth, WI.
Best wishes,
Tom

Thanks Tom!

[BradC]

Just got home with the chassis. I have a few days of work to do on it before it’s ready for powder coat. The place has a slot for me next week so I’m hoping to get it over there Tuesday or Wednesday.

[BradC]

Completely disassembled now. The bracket for the main cutoff switch I added in the trunk is welded in place, unneeded holes are welded up, and a bunch of clean up grinding here and there done. It's ready for powder coat!

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[BradC]

The chassis and 32 other parts are at the powder coater. They said 3-4 weeks, maybe sooner. So I'm back in idle mode again. Once it's back though I'll have nothing holding me back and no shortage of things to do.

I finally took a close look at the windshield frame. I had read up a bit on it so I was expecting a less than perfect surface condition on the cast aluminum - it lives up to expectations. I knew polishing wouldn't be a good option with the voids and seams, and the CA government with its undeniable logic and wisdom has made chrome plating nearly impossible (cost prohibitive at best) anywhere near me. I took a shot at glass bead blasting the frame to see how it looks. Most areas looked great but the weld seams were still really visible and there were too many small voids. I'll just go with the same aluminum looking powder coating I'm doing on the firewall I think. The place is going to spray out a few test plates for me to help decide the exact color and sheen.

[Mastertech5]

I'm sure a shop in Reno could do it. Road trip. I love Reno and you could visit the Summit store in Sparks.

[BradC]

I'm sure a shop in Reno could do it. Road trip. I love Reno and you could visit the Summit store in Sparks.

Yeah, I thought about that. Since I have a bulk job already with the chassis at the powder coaters, the incremental cost for the windshield frame is pretty small. If I like how it comes out, great. If not I can move on to plan b. Even out of state it won't be a trivial cost to chrome plate it with all the prep it will need.

[Mastertech5]

I'm sure it will look great however you have it finished. You could tig weld the flaws sand them down, polish, and clear coat it.

[BradC]

I'm sure it will look great however you have it finished. You could tig weld the flaws sand them down, polish, and clear coat it.

Yeah, only problem with that is the weld seams are really visible. The clear might mute that a little. Not sure.

[BradC]

Dash display/bezel is together. I played around with a few options for the center inlay and so far I like this the best. It's a 0.02" thick carbon fiber plate I machined and covered with a black wood grain vinyl that sits in the pocketed face of the polished aluminum plate. I tried black paint and a few other vinyl colors but didn't really like any of them. Hopefully this looks ok with the black upholstered dash. Easy to change if not but I think it will be ok.

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[BradC]

Chassis is back! It looks great. Quote from the powder coater - "I'll never complain about sprint car chassis again.." Haha. There were some difficult areas to get coverage with all the additions I made to the chassis but they got it done.

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Part of the body is primed and just lounging around in the sun with some friends...

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[Mastertech5]

Dash display looks great, very professional appearance.
Now you can get that puppy put back together!

[BradC]

Some progress over the weekend. Brake lines are in, front suspension back on, motor in, and one side of the rear suspension hung. Things are slower going having to be careful not to scratch the frame now and making some accommodations for powder coat thickness, but it's cool to see it taking shape in a final appearance.

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I went out to the body shop Friday because they still had one of my front brake lines accidentally - hour drive for a $15 part but oh well.. At least I got to see the front clip body work progress (and forgot to take pictures, duh). The panels fit like crap in the area where the radiator shroud, lower rails, and side covers come together. The standard 33 slant nose panels need to be trimmed significantly for the 32 nose which is fine but the shop had to split the radiator shroud and pivot the sides outward about a half an inch at the bottoms to match up to the natural location of the side panels. If you look close at pictures online many people just suck in the side panels to line up to the grill shroud but that puts stress on the panels and the lower rails, and adds a slight curve to them. Yet another reason I'm glad I sent the bodywork out to an experienced shop...

[33fromSD]

Some progress over the weekend. Brake lines are in, front suspension back on, motor in, and one side of the rear suspension hung. Things are slower going having to be careful not to scratch the frame now and making some accommodations for powder coat thickness, but it's cool to see it taking shape in a final appearance.

184776 184775 184774

I went out to the body shop Friday because they still had one of my front brake lines accidentally - hour drive for a $15 part but oh well.. At least I got to see the front clip body work progress (and forgot to take pictures, duh). The panels fit like crap in the area where the radiator shroud, lower rails, and side covers come together. The standard 33 slant nose panels need to be trimmed significantly for the 32 nose which is fine but the shop had to split the radiator shroud and pivot the sides outward about a half an inch at the bottoms to match up to the natural location of the side panels. If you look close at pictures online many people just suck in the side panels to line up to the grill shroud but that puts stress on the panels and the lower rails, and adds a slight curve to them. Yet another reason I'm glad I sent the bodywork out to an experienced shop...

Looks great Brad. One observation. I see two steering u-joints within about an inch of each other, just my opinion, but you may avoid some future wear / steering wiggle if you went with a straight coupler from the power steering assist unit spline to the joint on the steering rack. Couplers with spline on one end to double-D on the other end are pretty common..

Of course it's hard to tell from the picture, maybe going with the coupler off the power steering unit may make the angle too close to 35 degrees at the joint by the rack which is the preferred max for those ujoints.

Just a thought

Jim

[BradC]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the note. That's how FFR designed it so I would hope they thought it through and landed on that for a reason. The whole steering linkage is odd in general on these cars. Seems like a lot of compensating for lack of clearances in many areas. The output from the steering motor as is isn't a straight shot to the rack shaft (has an extra offset), so a single u-joint wouldn't work. But, they could have made it that way it seems by aligning the motor slightly different to the rack. Maybe it has something to do with ICE motor fit that I don't see or something? Not sure. I'll look at it closer when I get the rest of the linkage back in. I might be able to realign the motor to eliminate a joint since I don't have any clearance issues.

[33fromSD]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the note. That's how FFR designed it so I would hope they thought it through and landed on that for a reason. The whole steering linkage is odd in general on these cars. Seems like a lot of compensating for lack of clearances in many areas. The output from the steering motor as is isn't a straight shot to the rack shaft (has an extra offset), so a single u-joint wouldn't work. But, they could have made it that way it seems by aligning the motor slightly different to the rack. Maybe it has something to do with ICE motor fit that I don't see or something? Not sure. I'll look at it closer when I get the rest of the linkage back in. I might be able to realign the motor to eliminate a joint since I don't have any clearance issues.

Got it, Thanks for the explanation.

Ya, the FFR design is funky in general. I went with manual steering set up on mineand changed up what FFR suggested.

I ran into a similar situation on the 55 Ford F100 I'm currently building. the steering rack supplier suggested u-joint qty usage / routing and after doing it their way initially to me it was wrong and the steering just wasn't smooth and actually had one spot that had resistance / binding about 3/4 of the way through the rack travel in both directions. I redid it a different way and it's so much smoother now.

Jim

[BradC]

Yeah - binding would be a bit of a problem in a steering system. I didn't have any of that with the FFR electric setup but there are definitely more joints than I'd like to see. I looked at it for a while when I first installed everything but didn't see any easy changes that would be obvious improvements.

[BradC]

Rear suspension all done..

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[JimLev]

Looks great, you certainly won’t have any traction problems like us front mounted engine guys have.

[BradC]

Looks great, you certainly won’t have any traction problems like us front mounted engine guys have.

Thanks! I was kind of hoping I do have traction problems!! haha

[Dan Cooper]

Love the pictures, if I didn't already have some inspiration I definitely do now. I hope to maintain your level quality detail. Keep up the good work.

[BradC]

Love the pictures, if I didn't already have some inspiration I definitely do now. I hope to maintain your level quality detail. Keep up the good work.

Thanks Dan! I'm looking forward to following your build.

[BradC]

Trunk panels are done along with my charge port and main cut-off switch. I added the switch because I'd heard several places would require the HV system be disabled to be allowed on site for insurance reasons - the body shop I'm using, most indoor venues, etc. That and it's just a good idea to have one. The switch on the front of the main battery box is more of a service switch. I have to pull all the BMS leads before I can use the battery box switch so it's definitely not practical as a disconnect.

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I'm still waiting on the firewall from the power coater. They had a delay getting the material in. It should be back early next week, then I can get going on the wiring. I'm planning to do the full 12V system before I start putting the HV stuff back in - mainly for routing reasons.

I'm going to tackle the floor panels the rest of this weekend. Final install with adhesive and my first permanent rivets so far.

[Mastertech5]

Have fun with that gooey stuff. WEAR NITRIL GLOVES and put on some clothes you can throw out if need be!

[BradC]

Yep, definitely. Luckily I'm only using the top panels and no foam. So it'll be easier than it would otherwise be.

[BradC]

Floor is glued and riveted down and sound deadener is in. Glad I bought a power rivet gun! Huge time and hand saver.

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[BradC]

It's a roller again. Spent some time this morning getting it back on the lift and cleaning up the garage a bit. Mostly just procrastinating what's next for the weeks to come - wiring.

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I'll be making some changes to the way I wired things initially - different routing, moving some things around, adding an extra fuse block, etc. I never had the lights and blinkers on the 12V system working in the initial build, so that's the first task. I also found out that the BMS setup I had won't support the CANBUS shunt resistor I bought to report state of charge to the AEM dash display. Little bit of miscommunication with EV West but they're making it right. I sent my BMS controller unit back to them for a swap to the newer Master Control Unit from Thunderstruck. I have to add another BMS satellite module too but It'll be worth the thrash in the long run.

[BradC]

Wow - I actually have all the lights working! I was ready to be tracing down something that I had screwed up with all the surgery I did to the harness removing everything I didn't need. That's a nice surprise. I'll take it.

The headlights that come with the kit are really cool.

[BradC]

Making progress on the wiring. The added extra fuse block makes things much cleaner than what I did for mockup with just tapping into other circuits for all the EV specific stuff. Everything has a dedicated circuit now this way.

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I don't really like the old style headlight switch that the kit comes with so I'm going to add in a smaller option. I won't have the dash dimming function with this but I don't have anything dimmable on the dash anyway. The AEM display has a built in dim option triggered just by a 12V signal so that will still work. This will be mounted under the dash out of sight but easily reachable. The high beam switch will be right next to it.

185541

Also added in a remote adjuster for brake bias. I'll be doing a lot of tuning on the brakes between front/rear bias and regen braking so this is something that'll be really useful.

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[Mastertech5]

Looking good Brad!

[progmgr1]

Brad,
I like the headlight switch you bought much better than what I got with my American Autowire harness kit. What is it and where did you buy it?
Thanks,
Keith HR #894

[BradC]

Brad,
I like the headlight switch you bought much better than what I got with my American Autowire harness kit. What is it and where did you buy it?
Thanks,
Keith HR #894

Just Amazon..

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B9KYBNS2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

It's not really a headlight switch so you'll need a dual input diode to prevent back feed in order to have running lights in one position and both in the other. The switch is off in the center position and closed left and right.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002UHVHI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Also, the wires that come on the switch connector are thin - maybe 22 gauge. The switch is rated at 5A, 250V but no numbers for other voltages. The LED lights should be at or under 5A. I wired it up and everything works, but I'm going to ditch the connector that comes with the switch and solder 18 gauge wire to the switch terminals just for added measure - a little more strength if noting else. This switch won't work on non-LED lights obviously.

[Dan Cooper]

It's looking great, I am really impressed with your attention to detail.

[BradC]

Some good progress this weekend. The 12V system is all functional and I have the three battery packs in. Done for the day now, so I'll work on the HV wiring later.

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I hit a wall with the new BMS controller wiring and setup. I'll need to call Thunderstruck and EV West this week to get it sorted out. It's different enough from the old one that I'll need some help with understanding it all.

[Mastertech5]

Ahhh. Progress, progress, progress!

[BradC]

I was able to talk with Thunderstruck today and I now understand the new BMS wiring. I still have some unknows with firmware versions and software settings but at least I can finish wiring now and deal with the other stuff later when it's all powered up.

The body will hopefully be ready in a month or so. I think for now at least I'm running slightly ahead of them with getting the rest of the car ready to go.

[BradC]

The new BMS system is alive and reporting out correctly! That's a load off my mind. I got the new firmware I was waiting for as well so I'll work on getting that updated tomorrow. Once that's back up and programmed for the CAN shunt resistor I can move on to verifying charging functionality (which is different than before also due to the new BMS). Then on to powering the motor controller back up.

I have to travel next week so I'll be taking a break from the car progress. I can use the break actually...