Rear hatch glass exploded need help

[Rsnake]

Hello everyone, I exploded the rear glass on my Gen 3 coupe last weekend at the autocross and need to find some parts.
The glass has already been ordered from FF and then I discovered the mounting bolts that go through the glass and attach to the lifting struts are bent really bad. I think they are part number 15265 or 15246 but would rather not purchase through FF as I have already placed the order for the glass and they are swamped. Anyone know what vehicle these come from as I know they are getting them somewhere?
Thanks
Greg

[GoDadGo]

If they have a part number on them, then it might be possible to simply match them up at your local auto parts store.

[Papa]

Check McMaster-Carr. You may find the exact part. Can you share a picture? Any other specs like length, thread size & pitch, etc.? Are they similar to these: https://www.walmart.com/ip/2-Set-Vehicle-Rear-Window-Glass-Support-Strut-Hardware-for-Honda-CRV-EG6-1997-2001/150157036

Here is another style: https://www.amazon.com/Omix-Ada-12012-31-Liftgate-Left-Ball/dp/B00HNEJBE2/ref=asc_df_B00HNEJBE2/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309898128610&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15304103326553308682&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028767&hvtargid=pla-568420228722&psc=1

[Rsnake]

Thanks for the help Gent's.
Here is a photo. It looks similar to the Walmart one.165473

[michael everson]

Any idea why it shattered?
Mike

[csmith]

Any idea why it shattered?
Mike

He has a video of it on YouTube (Daytona coupe build). Long story short, his son lost control and the car spun around during autocross. The 50mph wind force was too much for the latch mechanism to handle. It sheered away from the retaining clip and then the struts gave way leading to a catastrophic failure. No injuries (other than perhaps his son’s ego).

[J R Jones]

The "exploding" characterization led me to speculate, cold water on sun-hot glass.
In my application I draw on OEM parts for validated durability and function. I have reworked Honda remote release hood latches (front & rear) and strikers from door jamb latches.
I would guess wind got under the glass edge which suggests a robust weather strip and preload is appropriate.
jim

[edwardb]

Combination of windy day, car spun around during autocross, was going backwards, latch not fully engaged. Here: https://youtu.be/giWiKNih1Js?t=59. Like many incidents, multiple contributing factors. While maybe factors for all of us Coupe builders/owners to consider, mainly the latch engagement, not anything that is necessarily pervasive IMO or a design issue for more routine street cruising. He mentions in the video that another driver always tapes the hatch window down during autocross. Probably not a bad idea. These cars are regularly tracked. I wonder what those guys are doing?

[Ltngdrvr]

From what I've see of them, the supplied latch is not very substantial at all, coupled with the fact that it doesn't lock would have me looking for a better solution.

[J R Jones]

From what I've see of them, the supplied latch is not very substantial at all, coupled with the fact that it doesn't lock would have me looking for a better solution.

That is a cabinet latch not an appropriate automotive part. I experience high winds in WI that try to suck my Tundra doors open at 75MPH making the seals screech. It is a form of lift, slow air-high pressure, fast air-low pressure. OEM cars are designed and built for dynamics of operation and environment.
jim

[Jhinkemeyer]

It is not very often that I read through these gen 3 threads and am grateful to have a gen 2, but this is one. The latch on the gen 2 is much more robust, metal and locks!

[edwardb]

Not rocket science here guys. If you don't like the kit provided latch, or want one that locks, should be an easy swap. Nice round hole in the glass and a wide open flat surface on the inside hatch area to mount a latch. Sure wouldn't judge the whole car for this one feature. If you look closely at the video from the OP (linked above) he shows the extremely small amount of engagement he had on the latch. Just barely on the tip. Given the conditions of the incident, good chance any latch would have let go adjusted like that. As far as not locking, I guess it would be nice if there were a lock. But no one has ever touched mine now in its third driving season. And I'm not expecting they will. For the record, the doors don't lock either. Think that's the same for all generations. Many add poppers, which effectively is like a lock depending on how you set it up. But not a standard kit feature either. My Roadster had locks on the trunk and hood. Never used them and never needed to. Agree things like this should be brought up and discussed. And everyone review for how they may/may not take action. But as is often the case, some of the reactions go too far IMO.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Seems kind of silly to be concerned that the hatch doesn't lock seeing as how the flippin' doors don't lock either! But maybe that's just me since I try to not overthink things and generally don't go go looking for problems that don't exist :rolleyes:

Jeff

[Papa]

Don't know about the Coupe, but the hood and trunk locks on the Roadster all use the same key if I recall, and there are a very small number of ignition key variations.

[Jhinkemeyer]

Not rocket science here guys. If you don't like the kit provided latch, or want one that locks, should be an easy swap. Nice round hole in the glass and a wide open flat surface on the inside hatch area to mount a latch. Sure wouldn't judge the whole car for this one feature. If you look closely at the video from the OP (linked above) he shows the extremely small amount of engagement he had on the latch. Just barely on the tip. Given the conditions of the incident, good chance any latch would have let go adjusted like that. As far as not locking, I guess it would be nice if there were a lock. But no one has ever touched mine now in its third driving season. And I'm not expecting they will. For the record, the doors don't lock either. Think that's the same for all generations. Many add poppers, which effectively is like a lock depending on how you set it up. But not a standard kit feature either. My Roadster had locks on the trunk and hood. Never used them and never needed to. Agree things like this should be brought up and discussed. And everyone review for how they may/may not take action. But as is often the case, some of the reactions go too far IMO.

Just on the off chance I spurred any of that by comparing to my old gen 2 it was just to make myself feel a little better about buying a gen 2 just a few months before they released the gen 3 (which I still kick myself for on occasion). Usually I look with envy at the gen 3 cars, especially all the talk about how easy to get in and out of they are! I've never locked my hatch, hell more times than I should admit I've accidently left the key in the damn ignition! So definitely not a feature I am judging the whole car on.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Seems kind of silly to be concerned that the hatch doesn't lock seeing as how the flippin' doors don't lock either! But maybe that's just me since I try to not overthink things and generally don't go go looking for problems that don't exist :rolleyes:

Jeff

True. On more than one occasion I have had 2 and even 3 cars here that could be started using the same key.

Jeff

[Ltngdrvr]

Seems kind of silly to be concerned that the hatch doesn't lock seeing as how the flippin' doors don't lock either! But maybe that's just me since I try to not overthink things and generally don't go go looking for problems that don't exist :rolleyes:

Jeff

Well, I won't build one without locking doors, let alone the hatch.

[J R Jones]

Some of you guys are in denial or incapable of critical thinking. Obfuscating about a "lock" does not change the reality that a cabinet latch is not intended or legal for an automotive application beyond the glove box door.
When the Coupe hatch glass is closed the plastic latch bolt is pushed back by the striker plate against a light coil spring.
With vibration and dynamic body/hatch movement that latch bolt can be incrementally pushed back from the striker and any amount of pressure or suction can open the hatch. If you feel that function is adequate perhaps you should use it for the doors as well.
The mechanism for OEM hoods and hatches is the same technology used on automotive doors. The latch post or square loop is captured in a spring loaded steel slot that will not release the latch until the steel locking device releases it by way of a mechanical linkage, rod or cable.
Your car is a summary of your mechanical choices and decisions, not just the dollars and cents. There are numerous non critical parts and materials to compromise on, latches are not one of them.
jim

[BigShooter]

I'm in the middle of my gen 3 coupe build - does anyone have a good latch solution that they can image here? I'd like to make mine more robust that what FFR provides.

[Ltngdrvr]

I'm in the middle of my gen 3 coupe build - does anyone have a good latch solution that they can image here? I'd like to make mine more robust that what FFR provides.

Nothing that wouldn't take some custom fabrication.
Have thought about these pin locks, but may need the hole in the glass for the latch enlarged, https://www.q-latch.com/page14.html
Have also thought about a trunk style latch that would have the striker in the glass instead of the body, then remote operate it, https://www.johnnylawmotors.com/mi/RCRCsY34/universal-hot-rat-street-rod-trunk-or-hood-latch-kit-rotary-claw-heavy-duty

[Dave Tabor]

https://www.amazon.com/Gorilla-Tough-Wide-Utility-1-Pack/dp/B08V4DXTRZ/ref=sxin_14_pa_sp_search_thematic_sspa?crid=2UKUCW CBO6RSJ&cv_ct_cx=gorilla%2Btape&keywords=gorilla%2Btape&pd_rd_i=B08V4DXTRZ&pd_rd_r=7e2f6d07-2532-47cb-9ae3-3a7571d0b1c4&pd_rd_w=Aql7T&pd_rd_wg=p7eIW&pf_rd_p=caece72c-9249-4728-889b-b05627ddc153&pf_rd_r=S3W7V6Z2QK5T0GPSAFEV&qid=1650514226&sprefix=gorilla%2Btape%2Caps%2C310&sr=1-2-a8004193-6951-43f6-852a-aff7dbba9115-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFLN0RZNjU3OVA0VCZlb mNyeXB0ZWRJZD1BMDU5MDQxNjMxMFkwSEVFNk1NSDMmZW5jcnl wdGVkQWRJZD1BMDY4MDM2MEszSzNLS1dOMEIyRCZ3aWRnZXROY W1lPXNwX3NlYXJjaF90aGVtYXRpYyZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWR pcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

[J R Jones]

Nothing that wouldn't take some custom fabrication.
Have thought about these pin locks, but may need the hole in the glass for the latch enlarged, https://www.q-latch.com/page14.html
Have also thought about a trunk style latch that would have the striker in the glass instead of the body, then remote operate it, https://www.johnnylawmotors.com/mi/RCRCsY34/universal-hot-rat-street-rod-trunk-or-hood-latch-kit-rotary-claw-heavy-duty

FWIW, I did an Amazon search for the smallest, simplest OEM hood latch with remote release, and settled on Honda. I use door (square loop) strikers. I removed the secondary safety latches and had to rework the loops somewhat to match the "claw" on the lock. The problem you have and I did not, is the glass. The hole is a stress riser and slamming the hatch may crack or break the glass. The q-latch looks like it does not require slamming to engage the lock.
I have ground glass to fit, and I avoid it. I would prefer to rework the lock parts or find a smaller diameter design. Good luck.
jim

[Ltngdrvr]

FWIW, I did an Amazon search for the smallest, simplest OEM hood latch with remote release, and settled on Honda. I use door (square loop) strikers. I removed the secondary safety latches and had to rework the loops somewhat to match the "claw" on the lock. The problem you have and I did not, is the glass. The hole is a stress riser and slamming the hatch may crack or break the glass. The q-latch looks like it does not require slamming to engage the lock.
I have ground glass to fit, and I avoid it. I would prefer to rework the lock parts or find a smaller diameter design. Good luck.
jim

Show us some pics!

[Rsnake]

Dave Tabor has the right idea, Gorilla Tape!
This entire situation is such a freak accident I don't think you could recreate it if you tried. The builder, myself, did not build a longer latching metal 90 degree
like Paul did, My Bad. With that being said, between the wind and going backwards is what really destroyed it, if it had opened up with the car going forward it would not have exploded.
A metal latch would be nice but the plastic one should work if you fabricate a longer catch point to grab more of the latch itself. And I will be making a new part like Paul and will not worry about it except maybe add some tape when on the track.

[J R Jones]

Show us some pics!

Ltngdrvr, With limited space I have to store projects to work on other projects. I dug these parts out for photos; they are functional but not clean or finished.
The frunk latch is just forward of the windscreen. The engine cover latch is on the back panel at the license plate pocket. The remote cable twin release lever assembly is from a Lexus.
The white bonding agent is Pliogrip panel bonder.
jim

165779

165780

165781

[J R Jones]

Dave Tabor has the right idea, Gorilla Tape!
This entire situation is such a freak accident I don't think you could recreate it if you tried. The builder, myself, did not build a longer latching metal 90 degree
like Paul did, My Bad. With that being said, between the wind and going backwards is what really destroyed it, if it had opened up with the car going forward it would not have exploded.
A metal latch would be nice but the plastic one should work if you fabricate a longer catch point to grab more of the latch itself. And I will be making a new part like Paul and will not worry about it except maybe add some tape when on the track.

Rsnake, You have a penchant for the dramatic. I have towed a mid-engine project cross-country with a duct taped engine cover that did open (forward) causing hinge damage. Aerodynamics are unpredictable in some circumstances.
Safety glass is designed to shatter into small pieces that are not as lethal as large chunks of sharp edged glass. In engineering FMEA terms (failure mode effect analysis) "explode" is not a legitimate definition. The hatch opened to the limit of the gas struts and shattered as designed. You were fortunate in this instance, no one was injured.
jim

[Rsnake]

Dramatic maybe? But explode sounds so much cooler than break.
Besides, all I was looking for are the bolt/studs which go through the glass and I have already received new ones from FF.
Now all I need is the new glass and it's back to beating it like a rented mule to see what else I can break.

[Logan]

I absolutely love the attitude you have about it. You're doing like I'm doing and actually RACING the car... Things may break, but that just identifies the weak points. Fix them and keep going. This is the foundation that Factory Five Racing was built upon.

There are a lot of pretty show queens around here, and they have build qualities that are outstanding, but I personally like to see these cars driven hard the way they were designed to be.

A great power to weight ratio, excellent weight distribution, huge tires, low center of gravity, highly adjustable suspension, massive brakes, etc. doesn't mean much if you never use it! Keep up the good work and keep sharing your experiences.