Gen 3 product cycle

[OB6]

Obviously nobody here can predict the future, but how long do we anticipate the Gen 3 crate motor to be around before a Gen 4 arrives (or some other replacement)?

I don't know how long my MKIV build will take me (kit ETA in December), but it does make me wonder how committed to the Gen 3 I should be, given it's going on 4 years for that platform. Likely a non issue, as I could see Ford keeping it around in crate form for a long time, like GM and LS3.

[edwardb]

As a Coyote enthusiast (Gen 2 and Gen 3 builds so far) I follow this engine pretty closely. There haven't been any hints of another generation Coyote engine that I've personally heard of. Each Gen 3 model year has had minor changes, including 2022 which downgraded the HP and torque slightly to meet the most recent emissions standards. (https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a37935754/ford-mustang-coyote-v-8-will-reportedly-lose-10-hp-in-2022/), but nothing about a new version. Engine models are in R&D for several years ahead of actual production and require considerable planning for future certification requirements, etc. But good luck getting anyone from Ford, or any of the other automakers, to give any advance information. Even people I know in the business will say "I can't tell you..." So bottom line, in absence of any announcements, no reason to doubt that the Gen 3 will be around and will be the current available version in your timeframe. They have to be supported for multiple years after release, so no danger there either. Even if Ford were to announce a new version of the Coyote, it would be a considerable amount of time before it was offered by Ford Performance as a crate motor and their control pack support. Case in point, it was more than a year between when the current Gen 3 Coyote was going into production Mustangs and when the Ford Performance crate and control pack was available. I know. I literally got the first one. It was August 2018. The engine was out and in full production long before that.

Having said all that, while I don't think it will affect your timeline, it will be interesting to see what the real long range direction is. Clearly electric is happening all over the place, with multiple mfg's saying they won't have internal combustion engines after certain dates in the future. That's a whole other discussion. But nearer term, it's clear many are going the same direction as Ford did a few years ago with smaller displacement and fewer cylinders and then making HP with turbos. Our big, heavy, Ford built SUV has a 3.0 liter V-6 with dual turbos that makes 400 HP. I'm still amazed at that. It's very lively and not underpowered at all. Quite the opposite. Stellantis (Chrysler for those keeping score) just announced a new dual turbo 3.0 liter straight 6 called the Hurricane that makes 400 hp in base configuration and 500 in a high output version. Going into a bunch of their cars and trucks starting next year. Rumor is might even replace their hemi V-8's. Interestingly, uses the same plasma transfer wire arc process for the cylinder liners as the Gen 3 Coyote. But I also saw a news piece the other day that said Ford would continue to have V-8's in their performance cars because that's what the buying public wants. We'll see how far into the future that really holds.

[OB6]

Thanks for the detailed response -- that all makes sense, and a few a points I hadn't thought of (but maybe should have). Yes the future for the V8 in general will be interesting, and I agree that much of the writing is on the wall. However I'm hopeful that the manufacturers will meet the demand of a specialty market for "old school" powerplants -- and yes, the Coyote will soon be considered old school, no matter how much technology they throw at it. The other variable is the younger generation and how their definition of hot-rod changes the market. As you said, this is an entirely different conversation.

[JohnK]

A few additional thoughts, in addition to all the great points Edwardb has made.

- Whenever a new generation of crate motor is released, it takes the aftermarket a bit of time to catch up. One example, it took Moroso over a year (IIRC) to release an oil pan pickup for the gen 3 coyote after it was released. I believe Edwardb had to fabricate his own. I ordered my engine right around the time the gen 3 was released, and I opted to go with the gen 2 simply because it was a "known entity" at that point.


- I agree with Edwardb that the direction we'll see internal combustion engines go is smaller displacement and more boost. On paper, these can often make as much power as the larger-displacement engine they're replacing but these engines typically have a much narrower power band. This is usually not a problem in a production vehicle because manufacturers will typically pair them with a gear box with more gears to allow the engine to run in it's optimal power range. Case in point: several years ago Mercedes replaced their "63" series V8 (the one they put in all the AMG x63 vehicles). They went from a 5.5l twin turbo to a 4.0l twin turbo. On paper, they both make roughly 580HP but I can tell you from personal experience that the torque curves of those two engines are vastly different. Mercedes addressed this by replacing the 7 speed gearbox that was paired with the 5.5l engine with a new 9 speed gear box on the 4l engine. The new engine and gear box combo is every bit as nice to drive but does shift more than the old engine to stay in the power band. That's all fine and well, but what does that mean to you and me? Well, if you're planning to use one of these new, smaller, highly boosted engines in a project build and you think you're going to put a TKX or T56 behind it and it's going to feel and drive just like a larger-displacement engine when you only have 5 or 6 gears at your disposal, you'll be a bit disappointed. I suspect (hope) we'll be seeing Tremec release 8 or 9 (or 10) speed DCT gearboxes for the aftermarket in the not too distant future to follow that engine trend.