Seat Belt Question

[rthomas98]

Hello All,

I have a question on the seat belts and looking for ideas. I am currently fitting them up on the passenger side and trying to figure for the array of passengers that I know I will have. My wife who is rather tall like myself down to my two daughters. I adjust the seatbelt and bolt it in for my wife, I can never draw the shoulder harnesses tight enough for my daughters. Still very loose. If I set it for my daughters my wife basically can't buckle.

The solution I am looking at is putting the seat on a seat track so I can slide it forward to get the tightness for my daughters but can be slid back for my wife. It is just the basic vinyl roadster seat and the simpson harness that came with the kit. Is there concerns in doing it this way? If so I am open to other ideas. The Driver side no issues I sat that strictly for me.

Thank you all in advance for the advice.

R.J.

P.S. the no passenger solution is not an option they helped build the roadster with me. So all are very eager to ride in it.

[egchewy79]

Any retractable seat belt options, like modern shoulder belts?
Something like this

https://www.seatbeltplanet.com/i-30499756-4-point-retractable-y-harness-with-lift-latch-buckle.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwl7qSBhD-ARIsACvV1X3UPGYKDiZdK8NdtgSmboWX4egkI-w8bfBHWktIty7uQXth_5orMGUaAg0zEALw_wcB

[BaBaBooey]

Just my own experience with my kids here. Plus my observation of others with racing belts in street cars. Nobody wears the shoulder belts. Everybody puts them on one time. Ever. Thats it. They’re a novelty, for appearances. They’re uncomfortable. Nobody wants to sit cinched in place on the street or on a two hour cruise. Also I’m not driving kind of on the edge with anybody else in that car where I think- strap in hang on!
Unless you feel its really prudent or they may want to go around a track too may be worth just setting it up for another adult.
I’m sure theres folks who cinch down all occupants everytime they turn the key and its probably a safe smart thing to do.

[edwardb]

...Nobody wears the shoulder belts. Everybody puts them on one time. Ever. Thats it. They’re a novelty, for appearances. They’re uncomfortable. Nobody wants to sit cinched in place on the street or on a two hour cruise. Also I’m not driving kind of on the edge with anybody else in that car where I think- strap in hang on!...

Um... no. Really bad advice and I'd suggest you reconsider your practice as well. No one rides or drives in my cars without being fully belted, and from what I've observed most others do the same thing. Saying everyone only uses them once and that's OK because you're a good driver is irresponsible. Sorry. These cars have little/no modern safety features (traction control, ABS, airbags, etc.) so taking every opportunity you do have for safety is more important than ever. It's not just about your driving. It's about the other guy too, which usually you have very little control over. As for comfort, yes they need to be tight enough to be effective. But they don't have to be cinched so tight that it's not comfortable for longer rides and cruises. For people who are really sensitive about such things, there are products available that put cushions or pads on the shoulder straps. We haven't found that necessary. But some do.

To the OP, I've used the kit supplied Simpsons in all but my Coupe build and was able to find an installation that allowed enough adjustment for most adults and also smaller children. But sounds like for your particular situation this hasn't been possible. I have Schroth Profi II harnesses in our Coupe which we like very much because of the push-button cam lock. Much more convenient to use. And the pull-down adjustment is easy to use as well. There are multiple other brands that are similar. But I don't know if something similar would help. Your idea about a sliding seat is certainly an option. For smaller riders, moving the seat forward wouldn't be an issue. For most adults though, they're going to want all the legroom they can get.

[rthomas98]

Um... no. Really bad advice and I'd suggest you reconsider your practice as well. No one rides or drives in my cars without being fully belted, and from what I've observed most others do the same thing. Saying everyone only uses them once and that's OK because you're a good driver is irresponsible. Sorry. These cars have little/no modern safety features (traction control, ABS, airbags, etc.) so taking every opportunity you do have for safety is more important than ever. It's not just about your driving. It's about the other guy too, which usually you have very little control over. As for comfort, yes they need to be tight enough to be effective. But they don't have to be cinched so tight that it's not comfortable for longer rides and cruises. For people who are really sensitive about such things, there are products available that put cushions or pads on the shoulder straps. We haven't found that necessary. But some do.

To the OP, I've used the kit supplied Simpsons in all but my Coupe build and was able to find an installation that allowed enough adjustment for most adults and also smaller children. But sounds like for your particular situation this hasn't been possible. I have Schroth Profi II harnesses in our Coupe which we like very much because of the push-button cam lock. Much more convenient to use. And the pull-down adjustment is easy to use as well. There are multiple other brands that are similar. But I don't know if something similar would help. Your idea about a sliding seat is certainly an option. For smaller riders, moving the seat forward wouldn't be an issue. For most adults though, they're going to want all the legroom they can get.

Thank you Paul. I will look into the schroth Profi II harnesses. and yes I agree on the shoulder belts are to be used. I don't need an idiot on his cell phone to make me have regrets for myself or my possible passengers. Hence the reason I am spending so much time trying to ensure I get this part correct for fitment. As far as the sliders I found a double latch slider made by sparco for $80 that I ordered to see what it does to the seat. I am avoiding the F5 ones since they are single latched and I am looking for it be a part of the safety system essentially.

[rthomas98]

Any retractable seat belt options, like modern shoulder belts?
Something like this

https://www.seatbeltplanet.com/i-30499756-4-point-retractable-y-harness-with-lift-latch-buckle.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwl7qSBhD-ARIsACvV1X3UPGYKDiZdK8NdtgSmboWX4egkI-w8bfBHWktIty7uQXth_5orMGUaAg0zEALw_wcB

This could work. But not a 100% sure on the attachment point given it is a single for the rear.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Just my own experience with my kids here. Plus my observation of others with racing belts in street cars. Nobody wears the shoulder belts. Everybody puts them on one time. Ever. Thats it. They’re a novelty, for appearances. They’re uncomfortable. Nobody wants to sit cinched in place on the street or on a two hour cruise. Also I’m not driving kind of on the edge with anybody else in that car where I think- strap in hang on!
Unless you feel its really prudent or they may want to go around a track too may be worth just setting it up for another adult.
I’m sure theres folks who cinch down all occupants everytime they turn the key and its probably a safe smart thing to do.

Or you could just driving to dinner on a nice summer evening when someone runs a red light and then you’d get to see your wife’s face get slammed into the dash. Happened that way for my friend Ron. Just sayin’

Jeff

[Fman]

Just my own experience with my kids here. Plus my observation of others with racing belts in street cars. Nobody wears the shoulder belts. Everybody puts them on one time. Ever. Thats it. They’re a novelty, for appearances. They’re uncomfortable. Nobody wants to sit cinched in place on the street or on a two hour cruise. Also I’m not driving kind of on the edge with anybody else in that car where I think- strap in hang on!
Unless you feel its really prudent or they may want to go around a track too may be worth just setting it up for another adult.
I’m sure theres folks who cinch down all occupants everytime they turn the key and its probably a safe smart thing to do.

LOL wearing no belts is old school like when I was a kid growing up in my parents VW van with me and my brother in the back bouncing around with no seat belts and my dad drinking his Oly Beer while driving. I remember when my dad actually told me seat belts cause deaths because they will break your neck or back ;) thankfully times have changed. There actually are some more comfortable 5 point seat belts out now, I went with 2" shoulder straps which feel a little better around your shoulders. I am with EdwardB nobody rides in my car without belts, even my wife will loosen up the shoulder straps and I have to tell her to tighten back up incase we ever rolled over. These cars are not safe at all, aside from having no ABS, airbags and TC you basically have an egg shell around you with zero side impact protection and little to none rear end protection.

[JohnK]

I agree 100% about wearing the shoulder harnesses all the time, FWIW. I don't see anything on the dash that I'd like to slam my face into.

As far as belt fit, can you try some sort of booster cushion for your daughters? I wonder if adding an inch or two of foam cushion would raise them up enough to allow the shoulder harnesses to fit properly.

[rich grsc]

Or you could just driving to dinner on a nice summer evening when someone runs a red light and then you’d get to see your wife’s face get slammed into the dash. Happened that way for my friend Ron. Just sayin’

Jeff

Or like my buddy and his wife. They would't be here today if they had not had their lap and shoulder harness on. A 4 wheel drive pickup on the wrong side of the road, on a near blind corner. Only a fool would drive without being fully strapped in.
165192

[BaBaBooey]

I wear the lap belt always. I dont think im overly confident in my driving ability. I drive pretty defensively. I think I have little confidence in that car to protect me from most any impacts. I feel its only just slightly more protected than being on a motorcycle.

[BaBaBooey]

As far as belt fit, can you try some sort of booster cushion for your daughters? I wonder if adding an inch or two of foam cushion would raise them up enough to allow the shoulder harnesses to fit properly.

That’s another good point. Consider the booster seat height if you still use them. It’s no fun for a kid to be cinched deep into the seat where they cant see anything in front of them. They lose interest fast if all they can see is out the sides.

[Windsor]

Also I’m not driving kind of on the edge with anybody else in that car where I think- strap in hang on!

In my younger years…

Surprisingly, all of my friends (including those that did much the same) survived into middle-aged years.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

These are not "Hold my beer" cars. Nobody rides in my car without the full 5 point harness sinched up.


Thing to remember the part a lot of people call a submarine belt if adjusted correctly keeps the lap belt in the proper position low on your hips when you pull the shoulder belts tight.

[JohnK]

I wear the lap belt always. I dont think im overly confident in my driving ability. I drive pretty defensively. I think I have little confidence in that car to protect me from most any impacts. I feel its only just slightly more protected than being on a motorcycle.

Not to pile on here or beat a dead horse but still worth repeating that no matter how skilled and careful you are, and how much respect you have for the car, you have no control over what other drivers around you will do. You simply cannot prevent someone rear-ending you, for example. Believing that you're adequately protected with just lap belts because you're careful is wishful thinking.

These sorts of discussions would always pop up on motorcycle forums as well, about what level of gear is "enough gear". My personal belief was that if it was too hot or inconvenient to wear all the gear, then it was too hot to ride. Wearing the shoulder straps is just too small of an inconvenience to be worth risking permanent injury or worse by not wearing them all the time.

[CraigS]

One thing that may help is to look into the difference between pull up and pull down style of belts. Notice the third line in the 'Features" list.
https://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/products/simpson-racing-latch-link-5pt-harness
Hopefully you can look around some to find diagrams of how they differ and see if one or the other would be better for you.

[Jim1855]

Having put 65k miles on two previous cars, and all but a few w/o shoulder harnesses I'll offer that my comfort wasn't compromised. Yup you need to adjust them properly and for about the last half of the miles I ran 5-points because it keeps the lap belts in place and gives the shoulder harnesses something to tighten against.

Now for the OP. I found that the lap belts for smaller waisted people were difficult to tighten, mostly due to the belt wrapping over the side bolsters which were higher than the passenger's hips and beltline. Seats with belt openings at the bottom of the bolsters helped this by offering more "wrap" around the waist & hips. Something to be concerned with is the lap belts really need to be secured over the hips, not the waist. Hips are solid, the waist is rather soft offering little resistance until the belts make contact with the spine. A five-point crotch belt, even if over the front of the seat, will help to secure the shoulder harnesses and offer the opportunity to run the lap belts a little less tight. Simpson and other belt manufacturers have diagrams that should provide good guidance on use and installation.

And for those that want to encourage others to not properly and fully "belt" in, please don't. It's your choice to live or die as you wish but don't drag others down your misguided path.

Jim

[NAZ]

All the belts, all the time. Lap belt alone will not protect you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDz_UNEzzZc

[otto halstead]

I agree! ALL the belts, ALL the time! Even going from 40 to 0 in the distance of an intersection is very violent. This is what happens when an F150 4X4 turns left when she shouldn't have and my FFR didn't fit underneath!


165854

[mburger]

Or like my buddy and his wife. They would't be here today if they had not had their lap and shoulder harness on. A 4 wheel drive pickup on the wrong side of the road, on a near blind corner. Only a fool would drive without being fully strapped in.
165192

Damn Rich. I hope they weren’t hurt too bad. The steering wheel is all bent forward.

[john42]

LOL wearing no belts is old school like when I was a kid growing up in my parents VW van with me and my brother in the back bouncing around with no seat belts and my dad drinking his Oly Beer while driving. I remember when my dad actually told me seat belts cause deaths because they will break your neck or back ;) thankfully times have changed. There actually are some more comfortable 5 point seat belts out now, I went with 2" shoulder straps which feel a little better around your shoulders. I am with EdwardB nobody rides in my car without belts, even my wife will loosen up the shoulder straps and I have to tell her to tighten back up incase we ever rolled over. These cars are not safe at all, aside from having no ABS, airbags and TC you basically have an egg shell around you with zero side impact protection and little to none rear end protection.

Ya exactly lol! My father-in-law told my son once, "we never wore seat belts and we did just fine".. My son, who was 12 at the time fired right back, "ya you survived, but all the dead kids aren't here to speak up for that."

Anyway, another reason I like the challenge car is I do indeed have side impact roll bars as well as side impact penetration protection in the form a a steel plate fixed to the side roll bars. Of course my doors don't open but I do appreciate the added protection of a real roll cage and high back Kirkey seats with 5 pts harness. That center bit is actually very important as it keeps the lap belt in your lap and the shoulders from getting loose. My kids at this point find it fun to strap in to the "racecar" and cinch it down tight.