FF EFI Fuel System- what’s in it?

[benbobs]

Hey Folks
First post here- so be gentle!

I have my mk4 kit due to arrive in a month and have been trying to get ahead on the build by consuming literally everything I can find :)
I’m sure I’m the only person who’s done that here !!

It appears on here that many builders opt out of the stock FF EFI fuel system and buy in tank pumps from other vendors such as Holley etc. I have a BP 347 EFI and it sounds like I may need to do the same.

If I delete the FF fuel option can any of you tell me what’s included in there so I don’t miss any parts.

As far as I can discern, these are included in the EFI fuel system pack

In tank pump
Regulator
Fuel hoses from tank to regulator
Fuel hose from regulator to fuel rails
AN adapters / connectors etc for hoses

Is that it? If I don’t order this pack does the kit still come with the tank, straps, sender and other parts like the various grommets etc ? Or will I need to source all these as well?

Thanks in advance for any help.
Also any recommendations on hoses, pump / regulator also very welcome :)

Ben

[CaptB]

I would delete the FFR FI add on and go with the Breeze setup: https://www.breezeautomotive.com/shop/fuel-filter-regulator-and-single-line-kit-for-sniper-in-roadster-remote-mount/

You will not be disappointed, I was disappointed with the FFR EFI setup.

[benbobs]

Thanks for the quick reply, the link is just the regulator / hoses - do you recommend the Holley Sniper in fuel pump alongside this or another manufacturer?

[Papa]

I struggled with the fuel system when I was building my car and I made some mistakes along the way that maybe I can help you avoid. I also have a BPE 347 and have been running with the Holley Sniper. First, here are some things you'll need regardless of which EFI setup you decide to go with:

1. Fuel pump (recommend in-tank Walbro 255 lph)
2. Pump hanger (recommend Pro-M hanger - 3/8" supply and 3/8" return)
3. Post pump filter (recommend a 10 micron filter that you can service - inspect and change the filter element)
4. Fuel lines (ensure you get lines that are not going to deteriorate with Ethanol blended gas - hard lines and/or PTFE-lined flex hose)
- For most EFI systems you'll want a return line, but options vary

The complete kit includes the fuel tank and straps, fuel gauge sending unit, tank vent, and fill tube with gasket (may want to upgrade to OE Ford gasket)

Have you decided on the EFI system you plan to use? The Sniper has a built-in regulator, most others will require a separate regulator. I'm in the process of redoing my entire fuel system after getting contamination in the system. I'm not pinching any pennies this time as i don't want to do this again.

[edwardb]

If I don’t order this pack does the kit still come with the tank, straps, sender and other parts like the various grommets etc ? Or will I need to source all these as well?

Ben

The complete kit includes the tank, cover, straps, sender, fuel hoses, filter, etc. Likely you won't use too many of the hoses or connectors for an EFI setup. Personally, I'd buy my own EFI pump and related. That's what I've done if that matters. They're all common parts on all the regular websites (Summit, JEGS, etc.) and of course Mark at Breeze can take care of you too. Will probably be similar or less money, at least as good, and exactly what you want. I wouldn't be in a big hurry. You have plenty of time to figure out what you need once the kit and engine arrives. I haven't purchased from Blueprint, but they may include some of what you need. If nothing else, they will spec what you need, including fuel line size which is a pretty big deal and all the parts have to match that size.

[benbobs]

This is great info thank you so much! The system is a Holley Sniper EFI, and I believe you’re right; it may have the regulator built in. I was considering running hard lines for some of it and had wondered if it might be worth having a separate regulator fitted near the fuel pump so I only had one line running the length of the car. I was presuming the redundancy there won’t hurt for the sake of only one line, but wasn’t sure if that was a good idea or not.

[benbobs]

Thanks for the tip; sounds like I should ping him. I ordered a few parts online already from
Breeze. Good to know there’s someone there who can help with questions like this too.

[hineas]

We purchased the BluePrint 347 with Holley Sniper EFI directly from BluePrint. We purchased this about 18 months ago. The engine and transmission package also came with an external electric fuel pump, the correct fuel filters for the system (both pre and post pump filters), fuel lines, parts to modify the fuel pick-up to meet the requirements for the EFI, etc. Honestly, we didn't have to buy anything.

The fuel line provided with our BluePrint engine was Earl's Vapor Guard fuel line, if memory serves. This is a multi-layer flexible hose that is advertised as being able to withstand degradation from ethanol fuels, but many people opt using a rigid line instead. BluePrint gave us instructions on how to modify the in tank fuel pick-up and return to allow for increased flow, which wasn't hard.

When we ordered our kit 18 months ago, Factory Five told us that we didn't need to order the EFI kit from them as this wasn't for the throttle body style EFI.

We used the parts that came with the engine. We have about 1,000 miles on it and it has been working well so far.

[Papa]

This is great info thank you so much! The system is a Holley Sniper EFI, and I believe you’re right; it may have the regulator built in. I was considering running hard lines for some of it and had wondered if it might be worth having a separate regulator fitted near the fuel pump so I only had one line running the length of the car. I was presuming the redundancy there won’t hurt for the sake of only one line, but wasn’t sure if that was a good idea or not.

You can bypass the built-in regulator and run what you're describing, which is a filter-regulator near the tank. The advantage is that the return is short, rather than the length of the car. Pay particular attention to the Sniper plumbing instructions if you decide to go this route. Be sure you are supplying 58 PSI to the Sniper, and that you use the correct port for the supply and cap the output of the built-in regulator.

Example: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-230151?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw_4-SBhCgARIsAAlegrW3ClpQA8TwSk1QK1t2M76ueeUl7C_Cid9oM APDIhqkl2n7hfy_6xcaAim4EALw_wcB

[CaptB]

What Papa describes is what I did with the Breeze set up. The feed line goes into the regulator/filter near the tank and the return lines comes right back into the tank. There's a small amount of modification to the tank to put this in place but it's real easy and you only have to set up one line going forward to the EFI.

[benbobs]

We purchased the BluePrint 347 with Holley Sniper EFI directly from BluePrint. We purchased this about 18 months ago. The engine and transmission package also came with an external electric fuel pump, the correct fuel filters for the system (both pre and post pump filters), fuel lines, parts to modify the fuel pick-up to meet the requirements for the EFI, etc. Honestly, we didn't have to buy anything.

The fuel line provided with our BluePrint engine was Earl's Vapor Guard fuel line, if memory serves. This is a multi-layer flexible hose that is advertised as being able to withstand degradation from ethanol fuels, but many people opt using a rigid line instead. BluePrint gave us instructions on how to modify the in tank fuel pick-up and return to allow for increased flow, which wasn't hard.

When we ordered our kit 18 months ago, Factory Five told us that we didn't need to order the EFI kit from them as this wasn't for the throttle body style EFI.

We used the parts that came with the engine. We have about 1,000 miles on it and it has been working well so far.

Ooh interesting. I have the engine already, I should dig about in the crate- I don’t think they supplied these parts with it but I should check (the engine is still “bagged up” to keep the dust off). Thanks for the tip!

[benbobs]

You can bypass the built-in regulator and run what you're describing, which is a filter-regulator near the tank. The advantage is that the return is short, rather than the length of the car. Pay particular attention to the Sniper plumbing instructions if you decide to go this route. Be sure you are supplying 58 PSI to the Sniper, and that you use the correct port for the supply and cap the output of the built-in regulator.

Example: [url]https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-230151?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw_4-SBhCgARIsAAlegrW3ClpQA8TwSk1QK1t2M76ueeUl7C_Cid9oM APDIhqkl2n7hfy_6xcaAim4EALw_wcB[/to url]

Yea that’s exactly why I was considering this. Thanks for the note - how straightforward is it to bypass the regulator that comes with the engine?

[benbobs]

What Papa describes is what I did with the Breeze set up. The feed line goes into the regulator/filter near the tank and the return lines comes right back into the tank. There's a small amount of modification to the tank to put this in place but it's real easy and you only have to set up one line going forward to the EFI.

I checked out the breeze regulator last night and it looks like it connects directly to the pump which seems nice. Did you bypass the regulator on the engine too or did you not have one on yours?

[CaptB]

I checked out the breeze regulator last night and it looks like it connects directly to the pump which seems nice. Did you bypass the regulator on the engine too or did you not have one on yours?

Still waiting on my engine but I will not have a regulator on the engine. Hope that helps.

Although it was not fastened exactly as the picture shows (it's forward of the 1" bar under the upper trunk), here's what the Breeze set up looked like (not the return line goes right back to the tank). I can send more updated pictures later today if you need it.:

164786

[Papa]

Yea that’s exactly why I was considering this. Thanks for the note - how straightforward is it to bypass the regulator that comes with the engine?

It's very simple. You'll need a standard 37 degree flair cap to put on the built-in regulator output, and then Holley recommends using one of the two front-facing inlets and blocking the rear-facing inlet.

[TMartinLVNV]

I bought the FF EFI kit and also a motor (Forte 347) with a Holley Sniper. I ended up junking almost all of it. The only part that I ended up putting on my car was the fuel pump itself. It was definitely wasted money for me. The Breeze setup is a nice option.

I used the Pro-M hanger, 3/8 fuel lines and parts put together from Summit.

[CaptB]

I bought the FF EFI kit and also a motor (Forte 347) with a Holley Sniper. I ended up junking almost all of it. The only part that I ended up putting on my car was the fuel pump itself. It was definitely wasted money for me. The Breeze setup is a nice option.

I used the Pro-M hanger, 3/8 fuel lines and parts put together from Summit.

Ditto here.

[Theshandman]

Hey Folks. It appears on here that many builders opt out of the stock FF EFI fuel system and buy in tank pumps from other vendors such as Holley etc. I have a BP 347 EFI and it sounds like I may need to do the same... Ben

Hi Ben. Welcome! You can see that I am pretty new here too, based on my low number of posts so far.
I specified the F5 EFI option to go with the BPE 347 FI (Sniper) engine. Today I sealed up the fuel tank having just received the back ordered EFI kit from F5. Dan G @ F5 says the pump they supplied is 255lph and capable of supporting an EFI engine of up to 500hp. I do know there are some great other vendor EFI options but I've decided to stay with the F5 supplied stuff because it seems to be decent enough quality and I already paid for it. If EFI things go bad down the road, I can always upgrade I suppose.

[CaptB]

So one benefit I found going with Breeze is the return line setup with the filter/regulator. But, if FFR gear works with you that's fine but I liked the idea about the filter regulator and the return line being at the back of the car.

[TMartinLVNV]

Hi Ben. Welcome! You can see that I am pretty new here too, based on my low number of posts so far.
I specified the F5 EFI option to go with the BPE 347 FI (Sniper) engine. Today I sealed up the fuel tank having just received the back ordered EFI kit from F5. Dan G @ F5 says the pump they supplied is 255lph and capable of supporting an EFI engine of up to 500hp. I do know there are some great other vendor EFI options but I've decided to stay with the F5 supplied stuff because it seems to be decent enough quality and I already paid for it. If EFI things go bad down the road, I can always upgrade I suppose.

Keep in mind that the hanger assembly and fuel lines are not up to the specs provided by Holley to support the EFI. Holley wants 3/8" for both send and return.

[CDXXVII]

Pro-M Hanger without a doubt. Not much else worth a heck for in tank applications. HiFlowFuel offers something similar but I would highly recommend not going there. Really nice guys but the quality control is total crap.

www.promracing.com/high-flow-fuel-pump-hanger-for-1986-1997-mustangs.html

[benbobs]

Pro-M Hanger without a doubt. Not much else worth a heck for in tank applications. HiFlowFuel offers something similar but I would highly recommend not going there. Really nice guys but the quality control is total crap.

www.promracing.com/high-flow-fuel-pump-hanger-for-1986-1997-mustangs.html

The only thing which gives me pause is that I’ve read a few posts on folks struggling with wiring up the pro-m hanger with the Walbro fuel pump (neutral connectors being different sizes). Any major differences in quality between this and the unit from breeze (which seems to encompass the hangar and pump in an integrated unit ), I wonder?

[edwardb]

The only thing which gives me pause is that I’ve read a few posts on folks struggling with wiring up the pro-m hanger with the Walbro fuel pump (neutral connectors being different sizes). Any major differences in quality between this and the unit from breeze (which seems to encompass the hangar and pump in an integrated unit ), I wonder?

No issues wiring the Pro-M hangar with the right parts. If you're using a Walbro pump, you need to make sure to also buy the Walbro 94-615 harness. Some miss that. Then you just need the proper step-down connectors with fuel resistant sleeving. (Required for any connection...). Molex 19164-0077 Perma-Seal connectors work perfectly. I too highly recommend the Pro-M hangar. I've used it multiple times. It has actual (not drilled out) 3/8" connections with -AN fittings already installed. This is what's in my Coupe.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ab234/edwardb123/IMG_0434(1).jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds (https://photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/a/186cc666-68d0-4881-b53c-af005ffe3552/p/b3848959-4c96-47b1-b8e6-1cbd80567d72)

[Papa]

The fuel pump I bought for my fuel system redo is: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpn-gca719-2

This package includes the pump harness that Paul mentioned as well as all the clamps, and other little things you need to mount the pump in the hanger. It also includes the sock filter.

I also bought the Pro-M hanger to get the full 3/8" supply and return line flow.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162817&d=1645311068

[benbobs]

The fuel pump I bought for my fuel system redo is: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpn-gca719-2

This package includes the pump harness that Paul mentioned as well as all the clamps, and other little things you need to mount the pump in the hanger. It also includes the sock filter.


I also bought the Pro-M hanger to get the full 3/8" supply and return line flow.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162817&d=1645311068

Perfect- thanks folks. Looks like this is the way to go. Appreciate all the tips.

Any recommendations on regulator ? Any experience with the new Holley one? https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_pumps_regulators_and_filters/regulators/efi_regulators/parts/12-875

[JohnK]

I've also used the Pro-M hanger and 255lph Walbro pump on my gen2 coyote build and am very happy with it so far. However, since you're planning to run a Sniper I'll just point out that Holley now offers a returnless fuel pump/hanger setup specifically for the Sniper that would allow you to run a single line from tank to engine, and the entire pump and regulator assembly would be in the tank. I have no first-hand experience with that setup but I've been looking into it as a retrofit on my '67 Mustang to avoid having to run an additional fuel line.

[Papa]

I've also used the Pro-M hanger and 255lph Walbro pump on my gen2 coyote build and am very happy with it so far. However, since you're planning to run a Sniper I'll just point out that Holley now offers a returnless fuel pump/hanger setup specifically for the Sniper that would allow you to run a single line from tank to engine, and the entire pump and regulator assembly would be in the tank. I have no first-hand experience with that setup but I've been looking into it as a retrofit on my '67 Mustang to avoid having to run an additional fuel line.

I've done some reading on the new return-less Sniper setup from Holley and the one concern I have is that the built-in pressure regulator in that system looks like the same part that is in the Sniper. If it is as failure-prone as the one in the Sniper, it will be a bugger to replace since it's in the tank.

Dave

[Papa]

Another option that Holley is now offering (similar to the filter/regulator mentioned earlier):

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-12-876?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAjwopWSBhB6EiwAjxmqDT9Zw3lOoB_LmLIoB006 H8N9urQfENZnyuLrhcNxySnoMO-NWejBgxoC5iQQAvD_BwE

Update:

It looks like this filter/regulator also uses the same FPR part. :rolleyes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7liacPQiNc

Here is what the cap on my failed FPR in the Sniper looked like when I removed it:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=161846&d=1644078716

[JohnK]

Thanks Papa, that's good information. I'd casually started looking into the Sniper and returnless setup as a future project once the roadster is off to paint but I hadn't looked into it enough to understand the reliability concerns with the pressure regulator. The form factor sure is convenient but I agree that it's not worth it at the expense of reliability.

[Papa]

Thanks Papa, that's good information. I'd casually started looking into the Sniper and returnless setup as a future project once the roadster is off to paint but I hadn't looked into it enough to understand the reliability concerns with the pressure regulator. The form factor sure is convenient but I agree that it's not worth it at the expense of reliability.

Here is what the new return-less (actually just an in-tank return) looks like:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162795&d=1645293302

Looks like the same part that is in the Sniper.