Downside to running braided stainless fuel lines the entire run?

[mmklaxer]

Seems most (not all) run hard lines with short flex lines to attach to the fuel tank and pressure regulator. That was my original plan, but then I started building my shopping cart at summit. Here's my read on it - looking for input

Hard Lines:
+ more robust protection against road debris
- 4 extra unions to buy (2 return, 2 supply)
- 4 extra opportunities for leaks/troubleshooting
- Quality flaring and tube bending tools required (not adverse to having more tools, but they do add up. using the kit brake lines would I THINK negate the need for those tools

Flex Lines:
+ Easier install
- More susceptible to tears from stones

Thanks for your thoughts!

[Fman]

I am running the Fragola PTFE braided lines for both my return and supply for EFI, no hard lines. The lines have had fuel in them for about 17 months now and I have 3k miles on the car. So far no issues, they are pretty durable lines and well protected with the outer coating. However, they definitely are not as durable as stainless or any hard line. I ended up going this route because there are less AN fittings and not having to bend two hard lines. Time will tell on longevity but they are supposed to never degrade or break down.

[GWL]

Delete, I misread. :rolleyes:

George

[first time builder]

If you ever want t drag race your car You cannot have all soft lines. I dont know the exact measurement that is allowed to be flex but I'M sure somebody on this forum does.

[Al_C]

I am running the Fragola PTFE braided lines for both my return and supply for EFI, no hard lines. The lines have had fuel in them for about 17 months now and I have 3k miles on the car. So far no issues, they are pretty durable lines and well protected with the outer coating. However, they definitely are not as durable as stainless or any hard line. I ended up going this route because there are less AN fittings and not having to bend two hard lines. Time will tell on longevity but they are supposed to never degrade or break down.

I agree. I've had braided line in place since the summer of 2019. I started with 5/16 feed and 1/4 return hard lines, and they were nothing but trouble. Probably operator error. With the 3/8 braided going both ways there have been no issues or leaks. So far so good!

[mmklaxer]

Thanks all!

Fman, that is exactly what I was thinking.

[NAZ]

I run all full length SS braided lines on my race cars. It costs more and you have to use more supports per length of the run. However, it is safer in a crash as it's not as likely to brake, cut, or tear like hard lines. Braided fuel line is more robust than the typical thin walled tubing popular for running hard lines so don't fret about rock damage.

As mentioned above about flexible fuel lines and drag racing, let me help clarify that statement. NHRA limits the total amount of non-metalic / non-steel braided hose to 12" for connecting fuel lines. That's 12" total for the entire fuel system, not 12" lengths. They want these flex connections as short as possible as rubber hose is easily damaged. And if you run hard lines that run adjacent to the bellhousing or blower drive they must be encased in a 16" length of steel tubing .125" thick, but SS braided hose can be run without the steel tubing as a shield. Think about that.

[CraigS]

Now that we have to deal w/ ethanol in our gas, the choice of the line is more difficult. But once that decision is made, I really like running all SS braided line. Once you have done a couple of hose ends it becomes easy and avoids a lot of extra joints.

[mmklaxer]

Now that we have to deal w/ ethanol in our gas, the choice of the line is more difficult. But once that decision is made, I really like running all SS braided line. Once you have done a couple of hose ends it becomes easy and avoids a lot of extra joints.

I do like the reduced unions.

Any brand better than another? As of now I'm going with Fragola based on the input above. This feels like an area not to skimp on.

[JeffP]

You don’t necessarily need a flaring tool either. I’m doing 3/8 hard lines and making my own 6an flex lines with compression fittings

[NAZ]

Fragola makes great hose and fittings as do others. If you plan to use PTFE AN style braided fuel hose, make sure it is conductive to prevent degradation from static-electrical discharge. Conductive PTFE is usually black. Do not use the white PTFE braided hose.

[mmklaxer]

Fragola makes great hose and fittings as do others. If you plan to use PTFE AN style braided fuel hose, make sure it is conductive to prevent degradation from static-electrical discharge. Conductive PTFE is usually black. Do not use the white PTFE braided hose.

Thanks for the heads up!

[smdryke1]

Does anybody use Evil Energy brand fuel lines? I'm a cheapskate and I bought some from amazon. Not sure if it will hold up or not. I might need to try to find ethanol free gas somewhere. I should have bought fuel lines from a reputable manufacturer. I guess I will find out the hard way if it dissolves.

[JohnK]

Does anybody use Evil Energy brand fuel lines? I'm a cheapskate and I bought some from amazon. Not sure if it will hold up or not. I might need to try to find ethanol free gas somewhere. I should have bought fuel lines from a reputable manufacturer. I guess I will find out the hard way if it dissolves.

LOL - I feel like I just read a pre-incident failure analysis of a burned roadster. I can't tell if you're serious or not, but if you're so concerned about your cheap Amazon fuel lines that you feel you have to seek out ethanol-free gas (are you really going to do that for the life of the car?) then you might want to consider just, oh... I don't know... replacing the fuel lines?

[rich grsc]

Doing it cheap is always the most expensive

[Papa]

I just spent $365 on 16 feet of Aeromotive PTFE -6 braided line and fittings. I shouldn't have to wonder if any future fuel system issues are due to the lines.

[BrewCityCobra]

Does anybody use Evil Energy brand fuel lines? I'm a cheapskate and I bought some from amazon. Not sure if it will hold up or not. I might need to try to find ethanol free gas somewhere. I should have bought fuel lines from a reputable manufacturer. I guess I will find out the hard way if it dissolves.

Plenty of locations on these builds where you can try to save a few bucks. That said, Brakes and Gas are, in my opinion, not one of those spots. If you are nervous about the gas lines failing you already answered your own question - replace those lines with a reputable company (PTFE preferred).

[NAZ]

In the aviation world there's an old saw that says "If there's any doubt -- there IS no doubt." In other words, if you have any doubt about the integrity of your cheap fuel lines -- there is no doubt, replace them!

I've been on fire more times than I can count. It's painful while you're burning and afterward you get the experience of the medical staff at the burn center scraping the dead, burnt flesh off your wounds every other day without any pain killer. Feels like using a wire brush on a bad sun burn. Trust me, it ain't fun.

Bad decisions have serious consequences -- is that risk worth saving a few bucks?

[NAZ]

I just spent $365 on 16 feet of Aeromotive PTFE -6 braided line and fittings. I shouldn't have to wonder if any future fuel system issues are due to the lines.

Smart move Papa!

My latest race car was built from a factory manufactured performance car that has a reputation for fuel system leaks and burning to the ground, sometimes with injuries to the occupants. I spent a month of custom fabrication and more than $6K in parts and materials to correct all the issues with the stock fuel system. It was that important to me as my experience of being burnt has me spring-loaded toward mitigating that hazard at any cost.

[smdryke1]

I'm going to use it anyways, the amazon Evil Energy fuel line. If you smell a BBQ, you're not in memphis. its just me.

[RJD]

Shop around and you'll see that you can buy hard fuel/brake lines in various lengths - no real need to buy a flaring tool or make your own. Some auto parts stores can also make hard lines to suit your specific need for a hard to find size.

[Papa]

I'm going to use it anyways, the amazon Evil Energy fuel line. If you smell a BBQ, you're not in memphis. its just me.

I bought a bunch of Evil Energy stuff to redo my fuel lines and the product looks to be pretty nice from a visual inspection. My concern that caused me to go "high-end" is the investment I'll have in the Inglese stacks and the mess I'm dealing with that is causing me to replace the lines to begin with. For a couple of hundred dollars, I can rest assured that my fuel lines will be a long-term solution this time. I did run 3/8" hard lines for the runs along the frame rail this time vs. going all flex as I did previously. I see no down side in running flex the full length, and as NAZ has pointed out, it is considered a safer approach than hard lines from an NHRA perspective.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164627&d=1648425492

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164628&d=1648425492

[Hoooper]

I have a couple evil energy fittings on mine I bought when I needed a certain fitting right away, they seemed fine but definitely the anodizing is not as hard as it is on good fittings. Only fittings, dont think I would buy hose from them. The fittings though have been fine, theyre AN transitions like a -6, -6, -8 wye fitting, not hose connectors, so I am inclined to think since they dont currently leak they arent going to randomly start leaking later.

[Avalanche325]

Plenty of locations on these builds where you can try to save a few bucks. That said, Brakes and Gas are, in my opinion, not one of those spots. If you are nervous about the gas lines failing you already answered your own question - replace those lines with a reputable company (PTFE preferred).

I go with......if I wonder about the quality of a part, it comes off and gets replaced. I had aluminum fuel line from my fuel pump to the carb. It always was in the back of my mind, right up to the point of splitting and squirting fuel on a hot engine. Luckily, I didn't burn my car down. I smelled it first. But of course I was 3 hours away from home for a track day. Never again.

[Papa]

Here's an interesting tidbit of information for those that are using Aeromotive braided PTFE lines and fittings. I just bought several Aeromotive fittings from Summit Racing to finish up my flex lines using Aeromotive PTFE hose. The fittings are pretty pricey with the straight fittings selling at $19.20 each. I received them today and they are in Aeromotive packaging but are stamped with FPS (Fragola Performance Systems). The Fragola item sells for just $15.99.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-15350
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-680106-bl

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-15352
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-689006-bl

Similarly, almost $10.00 difference on the cost of the 90 degree fitting. Just for what I bought, this is about a $40 cost difference. This seems pretty sleezy for Aeromotive to sell FPS parts as their own and at a substantial premium on price. :mad:

[NAZ]

Interesting. I'm sure that Aeromotive packaging is where the extra cost is, not that they're stickin' it to us consumers. Great endorsement for Fragola.

[Theshandman]

Great thread! Got me rethinking my fuel system build. Thanks Papa, NAZ et al for the insight. Consequently, I just ordered black SS braided PTFE and AN-6 couplers. Now for that one-piece filter/regulator.