View Full Version : Please Be Careful Gang!
GoDadGo
03-20-2022, 03:42 PM
Today I left my house to meet my brother for lunch...The air was crisp at 60 degrees and my tires were cold... I was throttling down more than usual because I was late which yielded unwanted tire spin in 3rd gear...I was pushing into the throttle between 1/2 and 2/3 when Redbone's tail started to wag...I was 100% unprepared for the fun so I was glad that no harm was done...With that said, please be careful out there gang and don't let your guard down when you are driving your cars.
On another note, if find yourself in Mandeville Louisiana and want to enjoy the best of what Louisiana has to offer consider dropping in at Pat's Rest A While on Lake Pontchartrain.
Just be sure to make reservations.
https://patsrestawhile.com/?p=2821
mgk172
03-20-2022, 05:38 PM
Glad it ended well!!
GoDadGo
03-20-2022, 08:56 PM
Glad it ended well!!
Me Too!
nucjd19
03-20-2022, 09:27 PM
Really glad everything turned out OK Steve. You guys have put the fear of the devil in my rig and I am very careful on public roads. Hopefully very soon I will be able to get it on an auto cross to see what the limit is with myself in relation to the car. Great reminder to keep it below the threshold while on the road.
Glen Davis
03-20-2022, 09:47 PM
Cobra heard whispering to the owner:
"When you put that tiny silver key into the ignition, and begin your start countdown, your car will whisper ‘take me for granted, and I will kill you.’"
KDubU
03-21-2022, 06:30 AM
Glad all is good Steve. We all know these cars have something under their hoods but there are times when we are distracted a bit.
GoDadGo
03-21-2022, 07:50 AM
Glad all is good Steve. We all know these cars have something under their hoods but there are times when we are distracted a bit.
That is so true because 3rd gear is where I typically don't lose traction unless I'm really on it hard.
The torque curve is super flat on my 383, plus it makes over 425-lbs once you get to 2,500 RPM.
HP and Torque figure cross around 5,800 at 465 so a brain fart on my part was the problem.
HP at 6,000 RPM was 467 (Engine Dyno) but HP goes up to 503-ish at 6,500 RPM.
Cold tires and feeling comfortable driving the car was the culprit.
I got sloppy since I've been street legal for just over a year.
Steve,
Glad it didn't get too crazy, but every time I hear one of these stories, I recall this quote: "... take me for granted, and I will kill you.", from https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?9926-A-few-reminders-to-all-owners-amp-a-good-read-for-soon-to-be-s&p=97857&viewfull=1#post97857
Stay safe my friend!
Dave
J R Jones
03-21-2022, 09:21 AM
It was well into winter here in WI and the DPW had been salting the roads. I had a night class north of MKE at the community college. My daily chose not to start and my Yamaha was languishing in the underground parking. I realized that the enrichment valve would not start it below freezing, but my class was 60 minutes, it would hopefully retain enough heat to start when class was over. Donning my snowmobile suit, balaclava, helmet, heavy gloves and a back pack, I ventured out into the cold. As I reached the end of the street lit four lane onto the dark two lane I cracked the throttle in fifth hoping to shorten the ETA. There was a curious response, the tach needle swung to the right. The rear tire was spinning on the salt coated pavement. I had to feather the throttle carefully, that tire could also slide if closed too quickly. I though to myself "It is the environment stupid".
jim
Alan_C
03-21-2022, 10:02 AM
Been there done that. Like you, I gathered it in, but talk about a wake up call!
HP Summer tires and cold weather are a bad combo.
Hmmm. Cold tires. Yes, I believe that is a huge contributing factor. I seem to remember a thread from a few years ago where some guys were putting spiked tires on their cars so they could race on ice. That might solve the problem ;)
In any event, I feel your pain. I have experienced the same issue and it really got my attention. I have been much more careful in cooler weather since then!
GoDadGo
03-21-2022, 01:03 PM
I didn't think 60 degrees was cold, but the engine did seem to be happier than normal.
My lack of attention could have ended bad but thankfully didn't.
Jim1855
03-21-2022, 01:53 PM
Many of the summer performance tires have warnings about cold temperature operation, see below. These are often ignored because the operator sees "dry" and assumes "good to go". As many find out, often the hard way, this isn't necessarily so. Then there's the cold, dense air which helps an engine make power. Power up, traction down makes for an interesting drive.
I offer the following:
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Toyo&tireModel=Proxes+R888R&partnum=135WR7R888R&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+PS2&partnum=335YR7SPORTPS2&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Pirelli&tireModel=P+Zero+System+%28Collezione%29&partnum=335YR70AV2&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes
For the folks in the southern and warmer states, you guys miss out on a huge training opportunity, that of driving in snow, rain, black ice and a few of the other cold, wet and really slippery conditions. Controlled, hopefully, slides are performed at greatly reduced speeds with similar results to slides on dry pavement. It really amounts to a continuous autocross just on public roads with cars, curbs and mailboxes in place of cones.
Please be aware of the delicate connection of your brain to your right foot.
Jim
mburger
03-21-2022, 06:34 PM
I feel like I am rereading my post titled, remember that toy sit and spin?
Except I had a video to prove it! Lol
We can get very comfortable and it’s so easy to forget how close we are to losing it every time out because it’s always a fraction of an inch on the throttle pedal and the next thing you know the tail end gets overly excited and suddenly you’re a passenger because you missed your spots to correct.
GoDadGo
03-21-2022, 08:17 PM
I feel like I am rereading my post titled, remember that toy sit and spin?
Amen Brother Mark, Amen!
mburger
03-21-2022, 08:49 PM
Hope to see you next week!
GoDadGo
03-21-2022, 09:20 PM
Hope to see you next week!
That's the game plan.
nucjd19
03-21-2022, 09:27 PM
Hey Steve. Quick question. I know you have a front sway bar with a 3 link. Do you think that helped or hindered you getting it back under control ? Thanks in advance.
AC Bill
03-22-2022, 03:42 AM
60* is just an average day here in the PNW. I'd give up half the driving season if I had to wait for it to get hotter than that..:)
It must be the particular tire compound you have, unless there was still some dew on the road.
GoDadGo
03-22-2022, 05:16 AM
Hey Steve. Quick question. I know you have a front sway bar with a 3 link. Do you think that helped or hindered you getting it back under control ? Thanks in advance.
I can honestly say that I don't know if the sway bar helped or not...Just understand that my car does not have a rearward weight bias and my sway bar is only 3/4" thick.
I've always been a tire burner and wet weather slip and slide driver...My driving antics has driven my wife crazy for over 40 years because anytime that it starts raining I always kick the back out on anything that I'm driving including my wife's Challenger and my lowly Ram Tradesman Regular Cab V6 Pickup...I think the fact that love to turn left to go right and turn right to go left is why didn't lose control...The only vehicle that I seldom did that with was our old Wobbly Box, Kid Hauling, Safari Van that went swimming in Hurricane Isaac back in 2012.
I can tell you that the Redbone Roadster feels very neutral and very precise...I think that the fact that I had to move the engine forward to make the driveline fit yielded a similar weight distribution (50F/50R) to my old beloved C4 Corvette which is shown below:
https://youtu.be/svZX2BMSDEs
The Cobra feels like that old Vette only a lot better in every aspect; however, everything happens so much faster compared it...Heck, after a year of legal driving I still find the car to be a handful.
I wish I could answer your question, but I simply don't know if the sway bar helped or not.
GoDadGo
03-22-2022, 05:46 AM
60* is just an average day here in the PNW. I'd give up half the driving season if I had to wait for it to get hotter than that..:)
It must be the particular tire compound you have, unless there was still some dew on the road.
> My tire compound is hard (Nitto 555's) and the dumb driver was in a hurry.
> I like 555's because they are pretty good in the rain which happens often.
> I may upgrade to Nitto NT05's when I replace them because of age.
NOTE:MSlidell, Louisiana gets 62 inches of rain, on average, per year.
............The US average is 38 inches of rain per year.
............Slidell averages 0 inches of snow per year.
Mike N
03-22-2022, 08:28 AM
New Years day run. Cold tires, cold road surface and a very important lesson learned.......
164378
GoDadGo
03-22-2022, 09:07 AM
New Years day run. Cold tires, cold road surface and a very important lesson learned.......
164378
Hopefully you only left marks on the road.
Jeff Kleiner
03-22-2022, 09:30 AM
Oh yeah, it can happen! I've been around more times than I can count...like here (I was traveling from left to right---and a moment before you would have seen my tail lights not my headlights!) :p
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164379&d=1647958622
It's always happened to me on an autocross course or during a track day. Get out there in a controlled environment and find your limit safely...you won't know where that limit is or what it feels like until you go beyond it.
Jeff
This thread got me to thinking. Most of us are aware that soft performance tires lose a lot of grip on cold surfaces. So, does this tire now perform worse than a standard tire at the same cold temperature? For instance: comparing Go Dad’s Nitto 555 vs the NT05. Is there a temperature point where the 555 would actually get better traction than the NT05? It seems like the traction loss percentage would be greater on the soft tire, but still not degrade below that of the hard tire. You learn to expect good traction with the soft tire and when it goes away you’ve got a problem. With the hard tire you know you don’t have traction and drive accordingly.
J R Jones
03-23-2022, 01:40 PM
This thread got me to thinking. Most of us are aware that soft performance tires lose a lot of grip on cold surfaces. So, does this tire now perform worse than a standard tire at the same cold temperature? For instance: comparing Go Dad’s Nitto 555 vs the NT05. Is there a temperature point where the 555 would actually get better traction than the NT05? It seems like the traction loss percentage would be greater on the soft tire, but still not degrade below that of the hard tire. You learn to expect good traction with the soft tire and when it goes away you’ve got a problem. With the hard tire you know you don’t have traction and drive accordingly.
bobi, By Nito's advertised characteristics the 555 gives up (to NT05) dry traction for wet traction, quietness and ride comfort There is more to it than tread compound and tread.
There are geographic areas where warm, dry road surface is consistent, but not in the upper midwest. I have raced in the rain, I do not enjoy having to use that technique with a daily driver. High risk.
Years ago I bought a E46 BMW 330 ZHP from a WI State Patrol man. He had Goodyear Sport all seasons on it and stated that is the tire used on State Patrol cruisers. They were great. That BMW was formidable in autocross. I bought another set when required and put a set on my wife's high performance crossover, and they work great there too. I have never given a thought to her or my tire traction.
It would be interesting if the Tire Rack would provide one of their comparison charts for same size tire in disparate tire categories to evaluate compromises. Like ultra perf vs high perf vs all season.
jim
GoDadGo
03-25-2022, 04:41 AM
While it is true that I'm riding on rather hard Nitto-555 tires with pretty deep 3.73 gears, the attached video gives you guys an idea as to why I have a lot trouble keeping the tires planted as this engine is nearly identical to mine...The attached video really shows what a well planned 383 can produce which makes keeping the tire planting tough in rather light cars like our MK-4 Roadsters:
https://youtu.be/wimUgFd0Qkg
The big difference between this engine and mine is I'm running a hydraulic roller cam to keep the valvetrain maintenance requirements low...Both engines are running single plane intakes, but I'm running H-Beam Rods which are the same length so there is no advantage there.....My cam is installed straight up and the Iron Eagle Tall Port Heads flow similar numbers to the ARF Heads...The big takeaway is this video really shows how cam installation timing impacts where the power comes in based on either being advanced or retarded.