Who's your Daddy?

[halmc]

I am new to the forum, and new to Cobra replicas (tho' I've drooled over the latter for years). OK -- decades.

I have come by what has been represented to me to be a factory five cobra replica, powered by a small block Ford. I have bought it, driven it and am free thus far of any buyer's remorse.

How's this for a noob question: How can I be assured that it is in Factory Five car? I have a Florida title to the car with what I believe to be a DMV-assigned "VIN". That's how Florida titles cars built from parts, kit cars, etc. Fla title and registration is all I have to identify the car.

My question at this point is this and only this: to what tell tale signs, if any, can I refer to determine this is in fact a Factory Five product?

161649

[Jeff Kleiner]

I can tell by the one photo that it is NOT a Factory Five roadster of any vintage. Roll bar is wrong, scoop is wrong, radiator opening is wrong, shape of the rear quarter is wrong, cockpit opening is wrong (the wide flange across the back looks like a Street Beast).

Give us a couple more photos from various angles and we can probably pin down what it is but for now I can tell you what it isn’t…it isn’t a Factory Five.

Jeff

[egchewy79]

dang...the jedi master has spoken.

[zee]

I am new to the forum, and new to Cobra replicas (tho' I've drooled over the latter for years). OK -- decades.

I have come by what has been represented to me to be a factory five cobra replica, powered by a small block Ford. I have bought it, driven it and am free thus far of any buyer's remorse.

How's this for a noob question: How can I be assured that it is in Factory Five car? I have a Florida title to the car with what I believe to be a DMV-assigned "VIN". That's how Florida titles cars built from parts, kit cars, etc. Fla title and registration is all I have to identify the car.

My question at this point is this and only this: to what tell tale signs, if any, can I refer to determine this is in fact a Factory Five product?

161649


It's partly why Ontario registers these cars as "kit cars" made by the kit manufacturer and the year it was completed. So mine will likely be registered as a 2024 Factory Five Kit. Although I wish I could register it as a 1965 as some US States do, that'd be awesome.

[GoDadGo]

dang...the jedi master has spoken.

I've yet to see Obe Jeff Kenobi proven to be wrong, especially when it comes to these cars.

https://youtu.be/0RDIJfoBhFU

[Papa]

@halmc

Don't be discouraged by the news -- we see a lot of non-Factory Five cars sold as Factory Five cars. It's a name that people recognize and quite frankly, a lot of people assume all Cobra replicas are Factory Five cars. If you're happy with the car and enjoy it, that's all that really matters. My local club has representation from many different makers, and nobody cares what the other guy's is. We all have the same goal, and that's to enjoy these cars.

Dave

[egchewy79]

agree w/ papa. when kleiner is saying "wrong", he means it's just not a FFR car. Plenty of other great kits out there. At the end of the day, quality is dependent on the individual builder as there are likely a lot of junk FFRs out there, poorly put together. If it's a good deal and you enjoy it, who cares who made it?

[halmc]

agree w/ papa. when kleiner is saying "wrong", he means it's just not a FFR car. Plenty of other great kits out there. At the end of the day, quality is dependent on the individual builder as there are likely a lot of junk FFRs out there, poorly put together. If it's a good deal and you enjoy it, who cares who made it? No worries, gentlemen, and thanks for your replies/comments. I have no particular reverence for Factory Five Replicas over any other. My concern is more for things like the chrome surround around the front opening, cuz the one on the car needs replacing, and were my car from a known brand (FFR or otherwise) it would probably be easier to get.

I will post more pictures tomorrow. hoping that one or more of y'all can identify its maker.

BTW, my car looks like it was wired by a pack of drunk Cossacks during a hurricane. While the car is more or less roadworthy the wiring by itself suggests that I not leave my subdivision with it. The drive train -- some sort of Ford small block with aluminum heads and a Tremic (sp?) five speed -- and some sort of rear axle (not IRS) with Drum brakes.

Body and paint are nice, tires good, nice cam lope, all in all, no buyer's remorse. Yet.

Again, Thanks!

[egchewy79]

Where are you located? There are some builders who might be able to redo the wiring for you and go over the car to assess build quality

[Just puttering]

Have you come across the thread at the top of the roadster forum?

A few reminders to all owners & a good read for soon to be's

[halmc]

Where are you located? There are some builders who might be able to redo the wiring for you and go over the car to assess build qualityTallahassee, FL. However, as a one time Navy electronics tech (radar, and lots of other stuff) wiring is my long suit. Indeed, with respect to wiring, I have taken the bull by the horns as the attached photo may show.Body work ain't, and thankfully, this car is fairly easy on the eyes.161705161706

[halmc]

I shall czech it out.

[NC Cobra]

“my car looks like it was wired by a pack of drunk Cossacks during a hurricane.”

You really have a great way of describing things. Came very close to laughing out loud with a mouthful of lunch reading that - not recommended. Regardless of the brand, enjoy your new purchase, its a great color and will be a whole lot of fun. BTW, the post about the reminders for new owner posts is good advice. More true than you would ever believe.

[halmc]

“my car looks like it was wired by a pack of drunk Cossacks during a hurricane.”

You really have a great way of describing things. Came very close to laughing out loud with a mouthful of lunch reading that - not recommended. Regardless of the brand, enjoy your new purchase, its a great color and will be a whole lot of fun. BTW, the post about the reminders for new owner posts is good advice. More true than you would ever believe.

Thanks for what I take as a compliment. My goal for the day was to get it to charge its own battery. It has a three wire alternator (chrome!) a voltage regulator, and just for good measure, a tiny little additional voltage regulator that was wired to the back of the alternator. Or it did have. Now it has a more conventional set up and a rat's nest of assorted wires -- some of which of astonishing gauge including waaaay too big and waaaay to small -- lying on my shop floor beside the car.

The manufacturer's purpose in making the little voltage regulator was to provide a quick and cheap way to provide regulation for an external regulated alternator. I have no idea why a prior owner was inspired to install a second regulator, but I suspect his wiring expertise is the culprit.

I'm hoping that the guy who wired the car didn't also install the cam, oil pump, and rod caps! :eek:

Lastly, if I'm a nuisance here on the FFR site, I'll move on. I won't be posting about FFR's cuz I dont' have one. But you guys have been most kind and it's kinda comfy here.

[Papa]

Thanks for what I take as a compliment. My goal for the day was to get it to charge its own battery. It has a three wire alternator (chrome!) a voltage regulator, and just for good measure, a tiny little additional voltage regulator that was wired to the back of the alternator. Or it did have. Now it has a more conventional set up and a rat's nest of assorted wires -- some of which of astonishing gauge including waaaay too big and waaaay to small -- lying on my shop floor beside the car.

The manufacturer's purpose in making the little voltage regulator was to provide a quick and cheap way to provide regulation for an external regulated alternator. I have no idea why a prior owner was inspired to install a second regulator, but I suspect his wiring expertise is the culprit.

I'm hoping that the guy who wired the car didn't also install the cam, oil pump, and rod caps! :eek:

Lastly, if I'm a nuisance here on the FFR site, I'll move on. I won't be posting about FFR's cuz I dont' have one. But you guys have been most kind and it's kinda comfy here.

I don't think anyone here will chase you away because of the make of your car. :D

Lots of skilled folks here that are always ready to help.

Dave

[Jrmotorsports55]

Welcome!

[Jeff Kleiner]

halmc,
We’ll be happy to help! Lots of things cross over no matter who manufactured the car.

Heff

[halmc]

halmc,
We’ll be happy to help! Lots of things cross over no matter who manufactured the car.

Heff Thank you gentlemen. I am still in the dark re who manufactured the kit. I will take some pictures today and post 'em here. I'm enjoying the car and have made considerable progress on the wiring. I've not yet had it on a lift, and am scared to drive it much over 40 mph until I do. I think it has a completely stock Mustang II front suspension -- sheet metal control arms, rack and pinion steering -- Um . . . chromed. It matches the gaudy chrome alternator.

[halmc]

I don't think anyone here will chase you away because of the make of your car. :D

Lots of skilled folks here that are always ready to help.

Dave
well I do need some help I'm enjoying the car, love to drive it. But I know precious little about it, aside from that learned as a result of busting my butt tending to small stuff. Here are some pictures I took today. I'd really like to know who made it. I bought it with no build sheet(s) and I think I will never have 'em. For the first time, I was today able to examine the car while it was on a lift. Pretty good news, better than I thought. A BW T5-in lieu of a Tremic but it shifts beautifully. No nasty surprises. The transmission mount is soggy, resulting in the transmission's being supported directly by the cross member -- hence engine frequency vibration, easily remedied. Picture wise, I am remounting the right front bumper guard, so it is missing from the pictures.

My principal reason for presenting the pictures -- in the form of a YouTube video -- is to ascertain who made the kit, assuming it was a kit. Thanks for any opinions, informed or otherwise. Please, too, forward any questions re any detail of the car. It sports a small block Ford -- from the performance, I would guess a 302. He got aluminum heads, and a tolerable cam. The latter caused the engine to deliver a pleasing cam lope. Music to mine ears!

Pictures here: https://studio.youtube.com/video/KUVLsFKWvms/edit

Mucho thanks for any help.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Can’t view photos without creating an account and I’m not interested in doing that. Just post them to the forum.

Jeff

[egchewy79]

link won't work for me.

[JeffP]

well I do need some help I'm enjoying the car, love to drive it. But I know precious little about it, aside from that learned as a result of busting my butt tending to small stuff. Here are some pictures I took today. I'd really like to know who made it. I bought it with no build sheet(s) and I think I will never have 'em. For the first time, I was today able to examine the car while it was on a lift. Pretty good news, better than I thought. A BW T5-in lieu of a Tremic but it shifts beautifully. No nasty surprises. The transmission mount is soggy, resulting in the transmission's being supported directly by the cross member -- hence engine frequency vibration, easily remedied. Picture wise, I am remounting the right front bumper guard, so it is missing from the pictures.

My principal reason for presenting the pictures -- in the form of a YouTube video -- is to ascertain who made the kit, assuming it was a kit. Thanks for any opinions, informed or otherwise. Please, too, forward any questions re any detail of the car. It sports a small block Ford -- from the performance, I would guess a 302. He got aluminum heads, and a tolerable cam. The latter caused the engine to deliver a pleasing cam lope. Music to mine ears!

Pictures here: https://studio.youtube.com/video/KUVLsFKWvms/edit

Mucho thanks for any help.

I think thats your link to edit the video, this one should work for the rest of us to view it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUVLsFKWvms

[WIS89]

The link that JeffP posted is the correct link, and I Was able to view the video/pics.

Hal-

Good luck with your project(s). The car has a nice look to it. Perhaps you can post some pics of the mechanicals and suspension to help us determine her origin story.

Thanks and welcome to a forum of great folks who love to help! One of the nicest places I visit!

Regards,

Steve

[JeffP]

My vote is a classic motor carriages 289. It looks pretty identical to these examples:
https://www.diamondmotorworks.com/1965-shelby-replica-cobra-kit-c-3826.htm
https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1965-CLASSIC-MOTOR-CARRIAGES-ROADSTER-242951

[Jeff Kleiner]

My vote is a classic motor carriages...

I mentioned that it looked like it could be a Street Beast early on---Classic Motor Carriages and Street Beast are one in the same. The easily spotted giveaways are the wide cockpit flange, configuration of the rollbar leg, location of the fuel filler and the somewhat vertical radiator opening.

Some history; As I said, Classic Motor Carriages (CMC) and Street Beast are one in the same. Started in the late 1970s they began a huge marketing campaign and sold thousands of Cobras and other replicas. Problem was that they failed to deliver components and in many cases anything at all. In the '90s CMC was shut down by the Florida Attorney General due to their "questionable" business practices. Charges were filed and legalities drug on for years. By the turn of the century guilty verdicts were rendered against the owner, George Levin, and millions of dollars of restitution was ordered to be paid to defrauded customers. Meanwhile while all of this was going on the company was simply reopened as Auto Resolutions which was soon after changed to Street Beast. This entity lasted for several years before it too was shuttered after many similar complaints of unethical business practices. In 2015 Levin was found guilty of securities fraud. Often when the CMC or Street beast name comes up it's met with unfavorable responses HOWEVER it's not due to the cars themselves but rather the business practices which left lots of customers in the lurch. The CMC/Street Beast cars are a different in style and construction than our FFRs and are more similar to Shell Valley and others with a ladder frame and "tub" style body. Many of them were simply never completed due to lack of support from the manufacturer. The ones that were finished were often due to the builders getting resourceful and fabricating or substituting for parts that never came.

halmc,
It's a good looking car! Go out and enjoy it and let us know if we can help with anything!

Jeff

[egchewy79]

JKleiner, when are you going to write a book about the history of Cobra Kit cars? I'd buy a copy.

[Jacob McCrea]

The Street Beasts saga really puts FFR's covid-driven supply chain woes into proper perspective, does it not?

[halmc]

I mentioned that it looked like it could be a Street Beast early on---Classic Motor Carriages and Street Beast are one in the same. The easily spotted giveaways are the wide cockpit flange, configuration of the rollbar leg, location of the fuel filler and the somewhat vertical radiator opening.
It's a good looking car! Go out and enjoy it and let us know if we can help with anything!

Jeff Thanks Jeff and company! The Street Beast / Classic Carriages scenario seems entirely plausible to me. After tourism and citrus, hucksterism, and fraudsters are more than casual contributors to our economy down here in the Sunshine State.

My fun with the car continues. Here are two grins for y'all: 1) the Edlebrock carburetor's electric choke was assembled so badly that it was preventing the secondaries from ever opening. I finally threw in the towel, fashioned a temporary manual choke from the remnants of someone else's early try, and ordered the electric choke kit from Edlebrock.

2) And this might be best of all: The electric fan -- a polarity sensitive device -- was mis-wired such that it was blowing air out the front of the car.

Sorry about my including the editing link rather than the one for general viewing. I knew better, but simply forgot.

During my shopping for a Cobra Replica I looked at some high dollar ones for sure. My personal experience (yours may differ) causes me to prefer cars on which I can make my mark. LOL, any anxiety that this car might be too good for me to have an opportunity to personalize it has certainly evaporated. Thanks for tolerating my questions and ramblings. BTW, I'm a more than forty year member of the Florida Bar and well equipped to explore the legal history of my Cobra wannabe!

[halmc]

JKleiner, when are you going to write a book about the history of Cobra Kit cars? I'd buy a copy. Good suggestion! Is it not the case that there are vastly more Cobra replicas than examples of the genuine article?

As to my "Street Beast" replica -- if that's what it is -- I must say that I did not envision my car's creator doing a gig in the slammer as part of its provenance. Wondering if I could make lemon aid out of that lemon. (probably not a good choice of words)

[Papa]

Besides the 31 early 427 S/C models and 19 competition cars, 260 427 Cobras were built as street models, powered by either a 425-hp 427 V8 or a 360-hp 428 Police Interceptor unit.

Source: https://www.shelbyamericancollection.org/cobras-coupes/1967-427-cobra-csx3269

[halmc]

Good suggestion! Is it not the case that there are vastly more Cobra replicas than examples of the genuine article?

As to my "Street Beast" replica -- if that's what it is -- I must say that I did not envision my car's creator doing a gig in the slammer as part of its provenance. Wondering if I could make lemon aid out of that lemon. (probably not a good choice of words)

Much thanks to the members of this forum for help in identifying my Cobra Replica. Much to my surprise -- and delight -- there is a FaceBook group for Street Beast / Classic Carriage cars. So I'm off in that direction.

Thanks again for your generous help! Drive safely, and often!

[glastron351]

JKleiner, when are you going to write a book about the history of Cobra Kit cars? I'd buy a copy.

I too will buy one:D