Wilwood Balance Bar Normal Play?

[Dave Tabor]

Hi Folks,

I'm wondering if this is 'normal' balance bar/spherical bearing play.

https://youtu.be/3szMKDWppiI

I can't say I'm happy with that but before I tear it apart I wanted some opinions to calibrate my expectations here.


Thanks!
Dave
Gen III #17

[Gordon Levy]

No, there is a bushing missing or broken

[NAZ]

Not normal, and when you fix it be sure to adjust the side gap, yours looks like it has too much clearance. See the Wilwood instructions or the how to videos Wilwood has published on YouTube.

[Dave Tabor]

Gordon and NAZ,

Thank you gentlemen.

I'll tear it apart and replace everything including the pedal arm- and I'll report back!

Dave

[Dave Tabor]

Ok, took me an hour to pull the whole assemlby out.

161618161619

Looks like those 'thrust bearings' backed away from each other.

I have a new balance bar setup right here- should I MIG, TIG or flux-core weld those nuts to the threaded rod?

Dave
Gen III #17

[Ltngdrvr]

You don't want to weld it, or you'll lose future adjustability or future repairs will be a booger.
You could use some loctite on it.

[NAZ]

Here's my advice: Red thread locker. Do not weld or apply heat to this assembly. Replace the assembly as a whole. Once repaired, should last several race seasons. Weld it, and all bets are off. This is a safety critical part -- I treat stuff like this as if it were a critical aircraft part my life depends on.

[Rsnake]

Naz, coming from the commercial aviation industry, I couldn't agree with you more.

[Dave Tabor]

Ok, red Locktite it is.

Should I grease the groove in the outer bearing shell?

Thanks,
Dave

[Rsnake]

If you use red lock tite won't you loose the ability to adjust brake balance?

[Dave Tabor]

That spherical bearing and it's two jam-nuts (to be locktite'd) always stays in the same location on the threaded rod.
As the threaded rod is turned, the entire rod and bearing/nuts moves laterally (one way or the other) between the two clevises.
The clevises remain at the same distance apart but the position of the spherical bearing (hidden within the pedal arm) relative to them changes- either more to the left or more to the right- thus affecting the resulting pedal pressure applied to each master cylinder.

It's annoying that the diagrams from Wilwood don't show the spherial bearing:

https://www.wilwood.com/PDF/DataSheets/ds252.pdf


161640

I hope this helps.

Dave

[Ltngdrvr]

If you use red lock tite won't you loose the ability to adjust brake balance?

Yeah, red loctite is really tough if you ever need to change adjustment on it or take it apart.

[NAZ]

[QUOTE=Ltngdrvr;481969]Yeah, red loctite is really tough if you ever need to change adjustment on it or take it apart.[/QUOT

161659

Look at the attached cartoon above and notice that once these lock nuts are installed there is no reason to adjust them. And locking them on the threaded shaft doesn't prevent you from making the other adjustments for initial set-up and changing front to rear brake bias. Red locktite usually requires heating the parts to break the bond but I look at this part of the assembly as a unit that gets replaced in whole when warn out.

[NAZ]

Ok, red Locktite it is.

Should I grease the groove in the outer bearing shell?

Thanks,
Dave

I use a bit of grease on the spherical bearing unless it's on a dirt car then I run it dry. My thought is grease is a dirt magnet and dirt will wear parts faster than running them dry. But that's just an opinion and I have lot's of opinions and don't mind sharing them. Correct me when I'm wrong.

[Dave Tabor]

Ok, it's all back together with even a new pedal arm.

Pro-tip #1: mount the master cylinders last, after all of the other crap.
Pro-tip #2: put an extra nut on the master cylinder shafts, tightened against the existing flats- now you can get a wrench on there to adjust the shaft/clevis depth.
Pro-tip #3: go easy on cutting the master cylinder shafts until you are sure where you want the brake pedal (i.e. if you're into heel-toe and all that you're gonna want the brake pedal higher than the gas pedal at rest.

I put a bit of graphite on the spherical bearing and the bias adjustment is sooper smooth. Got about 40 clicks end-to-end on the Wilwood knob (the round blue thingy).

I reckon my bearing/thrust nuts were off for quite some time- check your nuts and locktite them. How annoying as I did not assemble nor tear apart and check the pedal box assembly as-delivered.

Dave
Gen III Coupe #17

[NAZ]

Graphite seems a good idea that I never thought of. Probably cuz I don't have any in the shop. Thanks Dave.

[GT_Rich]

I like pro tips! Thanks.

[rhk118]

check your nuts and locktite them

Haha...Sounds like this should be pro-tip #4 Dave....Sorry couldn't resist, that one was teed up... :rolleyes:

Found those tips helpful, thanks for those, especially from someone who loves to heel toe and one of my main concerns is getting the pedals set up just like you said, so I won't trim those shafts too soon in my build...