Sniper Drawing Power

[BeePea]

Members,

While troubleshooting my no-first start, I took a look at my battery and saw I had about 9 volts. I removed the Sniper (power connected directly to the battery) and charged it up to 12 volts. I reconnected the battery (without sniper) and put the key in ACC and re-tested, still at 12 volts. I took the cables off again and added the Sniper to them, then re-attached. Volts dropped to 8. Any thoughts on what would cause this?

Thanks!

[Papa]

Something is wired incorrectly to cause that. Can you describe how you wired the Sniper and your ignition? Be specific about what wires you used both on the Ron Francis harness and on the Sniper harness.

[FF33rod]

Have a Sniper on my 347. Where/how are you measuring that voltage? There are 2 power wires to the Sniper, a red wire which is permanently connected to 12V and the pink which should be connected to a switched +12V (only activated when you turn the ignition on). Is your low voltage when you connect both up or just the red?

Edit: Opened this thread before Papa answered but he beat me to it. Will let him work with you, he knows his stuff. Having 2 people firing off questions can cause confusion

Steve

[BeePea]

This should answer both of your questions. Also found this out today, when I put the car in ACC mode in the ignition, the Sniper's relay for power and fuel pump constantly clicks. During my first trials to start the car awhile back my fuel pump kicked in once, maybe twice, nothing sense then. Could the relay be bad?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=161576&d=1643685994

[D Stand]

Are you trying to start it or just putting it to ACC? If only ACC, then something is not wired right. ACC should not be triggering anything with the Sniper.

Also, did you get the large ground strap taken care of on your passenger side motor mount? Did you go back to the FFR ignition switch or are you still hooked up to the push button start?

Thanks Dale

[Papa]

Let's start with the basics:

1. +12v from Sniper to battery + (good)
2. Ground from Sniper to battery - (good)
3. +12v switched - what RF wire did you connect to the pink wire on the Sniper? (must have +12 in both "On" and "Start/Crank")
4. Fan control: Light Blue fan control wire from Sniper to RF green fan Thermo SW (won't affect start)
5. Fuel pump control: Dark blue wire from Sniper to fuel pump + (How did you make this connection?)

If properly wired, the Sniper will prime the fuel system for a few seconds when the key is switched to "Run" and then the pump will shut off. You always want to wait for this prime to finish before turning the key to "Start"

What ignition setup are you using?

[BeePea]

Are you trying to start it or just putting it to ACC? If only ACC, then something is not wired right. ACC should not be triggering anything with the Sniper.

Also, did you get the large ground strap taken care of on your passenger side motor mount? Did you go back to the FFR ignition switch or are you still hooked up to the push button start?

Thanks Dale

Ground strap fully taken care of. Back to FFR ignition for now. When I said ACC I was referring to the first turn of the ignition, shouldnt that start the fuel pump?

[BeePea]

Let's start with the basics:

1. +12v from Sniper to battery + (good)
2. Ground from Sniper to battery - (good)
3. +12v switched - what RF wire did you connect to the pink wire on the Sniper? (must have +12 in both "On" and "Start/Crank")
4. Fan control: Light Blue fan control wire from Sniper to RF green fan Thermo SW (won't affect start)
5. Fuel pump control: Dark blue wire from Sniper to fuel pump + (How did you make this connection?)

If properly wired, the Sniper will prime the fuel system for a few seconds when the key is switched to "Run" and then the pump will shut off. You always want to wait for this prime to finish before turning the key to "Start"

What ignition setup are you using?

1. Thanks
2. Thanks
3. Pink sniper connected to tan electric choke
4. Sniper light blue connected to green fan wire
5. Sniper dark blue (from relay) connected directly to fuel pump. Jumped fuel pump directly to batter and it worked, jumped the blue Sniper wire at the relay to the battery and fuel pump worked.
6. Swapped back to standard FFR ignition.

[D Stand]

If first click before cranking (clockwise) then yes this should be having your fuel pump run just like Papa says. So either the Sniper is really draining down the battery or the fuel pump is. More details as Papa is asking for how your fuel pump is wired and which wire is going to the pink wire of the Sniper is needed to help. At 8 volts I am not surprised that the relay is clicking as the voltage is not high enough to fully energize it so it is just chattering.

Sorry just saw your response..

[frankeeski]

Choke wire will NOT work for the switch power for the Holley. If memory serves, you need to connect to the orange coil wire in the Ron Francis harness or wire it directly to the "Run" stud on the ignition switch.

[Papa]

1. Thanks
2. Thanks
3. Pink sniper connected to tan electric choke
4. Sniper light blue connected to green fan wire
5. Sniper dark blue (from relay) connected directly to fuel pump. Jumped fuel pump directly to batter and it worked, jumped the blue Sniper wire at the relay to the battery and fuel pump worked.
6. Swapped back to standard FFR ignition.

Check that the tan choke is providing +12 volts when the key is in the "Run" and "Start" positions. I recommend using the orange EFI/COIL wire from the RF harness for this connection.

When I asked about ignition, I was asking what distributor setup you are running. How are you powering the coil?

[michael everson]

For future reference, the choke wire will work. It has power with key on and cranking.
If you look at the face of the fuse box, everything in the first row is live on start.
everything is the second row is live with key on but not during start.
everything in the third row is live all the time.
Mike

[BeePea]

Check that the tan choke is providing +12 volts when the key is in the "Run" and "Start" positions. I recommend using the orange EFI/COIL wire from the RF harness for this connection.

When I asked about ignition, I was asking what distributor setup you are running. How are you powering the coil?

I am using the orange wire to power the coil currently.

[Norm B]

Members,

While troubleshooting my no-first start, I took a look at my battery and saw I had about 9 volts. I removed the Sniper (power connected directly to the battery) and charged it up to 12 volts. I reconnected the battery (without sniper) and put the key in ACC and re-tested, still at 12 volts. I took the cables off again and added the Sniper to them, then re-attached. Volts dropped to 8. Any thoughts on what would cause this?



A bad battery or very poor connection. Charge it with a 6 or 10 amp charger until you get a reading of 13.4 Volts on your volt meter while charging, No way a good battery will drop from 12 to 8 volts without blowing fuses, melting wires or starting a fire. The Sniper wires or integrated fuze should have gone poof!

HTH

Norm

[Papa]

I am using the orange wire to power the coil currently.

Are you using a standard distributor and coil or something more advanced like the Hyperspark that controls the timing from the Sniper? With a standard setup, you need to connect the Sniper's yellow wire to the (-) coil post. If using a more sophisticated setup, the wiring is described in the Sniper manual, and i don't have any hands-on (yet) with the different setups.

[Papa]

Does the Sniper's handheld boot up when the key is in the "Run" position?

[BeePea]

Are you using a standard distributor and coil or something more advanced like the Hyperspark that controls the timing from the Sniper? With a standard setup, you need to connect the Sniper's yellow wire to the (-) coil post. If using a more sophisticated setup, the wiring is described in the Sniper manual, and i don't have any hands-on (yet) with the different setups.

Standard setup, thus yellow connected to negative terminal on the coil.

The screen does turn on for a bit, the diagnostics screen shows errors.

[Papa]

Standard setup, thus yellow connected to negative terminal on the coil.

The screen does turn on for a bit, the diagnostics screen shows errors.

Time to call Holley in my opinion. It could be an issue with the ECU. What are the errors you see in the display?

[BeePea]

Usually the screen restarts during the clicks, but when it does stay on, it looks like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=161585&d=1643733416

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=161584&d=1643733416

[Papa]

That's actually good. The stall is likely due to wiring or a sensor. Did you run through the full setup wizard and verify all the sensors before trying to start it? That battery reading will likely be the root cause. Do you have another battery you can try? Do you have the CTS sensor plugged in? The Sniper comes with its own sensor. Did you install it or are you using a different one? Just to be sure, you aren't using the mechanical fan switch by mistake? The IAC should be between 0-10, but not sure what it will read if the car isn't running.

[Norm B]

The Sniper has an internal voltage sensor that shuts down the unit to protect the sensitive electronic bits when the voltage gets too low. A battery that drops to 8 volts as soon as it has a load on it would trigger this protection. This would result in a failure to start even if the engine cranks.

DO NOT try to start the engine with a battery charger connected. Holley says this and jump starting will fry the Sniper.

Taking the battery out and having it tested or replaced would be the best course of action. If your build is far enough along that you have headlights installed and they are not LEDs, you could use them to load test the battery. Just charge the battery, hook up your multi meter and turn on the headlights. An immediate drop in voltage by any multiple of 2 indicates bad cells. You said yours dropped to 8 volts, so I suspect two bad cells.

HTH

Norm

[BeePea]

That's actually good. The stall is likely due to wiring or a sensor. Did you run through the full setup wizard and verify all the sensors before trying to start it? That battery reading will likely be the root cause. Do you have another battery you can try? Do you have the CTS sensor plugged in? The Sniper comes with its own sensor. Did you install it or are you using a different one? Just to be sure, you aren't using the mechanical fan switch by mistake? The IAC should be between 0-10, but not sure what it will read if the car isn't running.

I don't have another battery to try unfortunately. CTS sensor is plugged in and installed. Not sure about the fan switch? I'm just plugged straight into the fan from the light blue sniper wire to the green fan wire.

I will try the setup wizard, but it often reboots and doesn't stay on that screen for long.

[Papa]

You need to have a known good battery attached before doing anything else. Take your battery to AutoZone or any other parts place and have them test it.

I invested in one of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ANF1D7U/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Simply measuring the voltage won't tell you if the battery is good or bad. Also, double check your main ground connections from the battery to the chassis and the engine to the chassis. Be sure you removed the paint to bare metal on the chassis for those connections and that they are tight.

[BeePea]

You need to have a known good battery attached before doing anything else. Take your battery to AutoZone or any other parts place and have them test it.

I invested in one of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ANF1D7U/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Simply measuring the voltage won't tell you if the battery is good or bad. Also, double check your main ground connections from the battery to the chassis and the engine to the chassis. Be sure you removed the paint to bare metal on the chassis for those connections and that they are tight.

I'll get the battery tested. Cleared the paint yesterday and I have another cable coming today to connect directly from the battery to the engine. My current grounding is battery to chassis, chassis again, then to engine ground. Reason for the double chassis hop was the cable being too short.

Reminder that when the sniper is not hooked up, 12 volts holds fine. It's only when the sniper is hooked up does it drop down to 8-9 volts. This drop occurs before I even start turning the key.

[Papa]

Do you have a battery cutoff switch?

[Norm B]

Good idea to get the battery tested before doing anything else. While the battery is out you should check the positive Sniper lead for a short to ground. I have attached a screen shot picture from my Sniper manual. First disconnect the 7 pin connector at the Sniper unit to prevent a false ground signal through the Snipers memory circuit. Test for continuity between the Snipers battery connection and ground.
Any continuity indicates a direct short. You can localize the short by removing the inline fuze and testing again. If you still have continuity the short is between the battery and fuze. If not, the short is between the fuze and the 7 pin plug or in the Sniper. This is unlikely because a short that causes a 4 volt drop should easily have blown the fuze.

HTH

Norm

[BeePea]

Do you have a battery cutoff switch?

I do not have a battery cut off switch.

[D Stand]

Another thing to try is unplug the relay on the Sniper harness for the fuel pump and try again. Per your initial testing, the fuel pump was not being asked to run as the Sniper controls it. If voltage stays up at 12 then you might have an issue with your fuel pump drawing down the voltage.

[rich grsc]

You guys need to stop and think. There is no way those wires can take the amp load to drain a battery from 12v to 9v almost instantly, not even the battery starter cables could take that kind of amp load. Everything points to a bad battery

[Norm B]

You guys need to stop and think. There is no way those wires can take the amp load to drain a battery from 12v to 9v almost instantly, not even the battery starter cables could take that kind of amp load. Everything points to a bad battery

I agree Rich and said so in post 14. The thing that bothers me is the memory circuit of the Sniper draws almost nothing. It would have to be a very bad battery for it to cause a 4 volt drop. Making sure he has it wired correctly and doing a couple of tests will prevent damaging something expensive when a good battery is connected. Hopefully nothing has got fried already.

Norm

[FF33rod]

You guys need to stop and think. There is no way those wires can take the amp load to drain a battery from 12v to 9v almost instantly, not even the battery starter cables could take that kind of amp load. Everything points to a bad battery

or bad connections/ground

Steve

[Norm B]

Any luck?

Norm