Oil Consumption?

[Alphamacaroon]

I have around 2K total miles on my Gen II Coyote, and did an initial oil change at around 1K— so somewhere around 1K miles since oil change. I went to check the oil a few days ago and noticed I'm about a half-quart low from when I changed it. Those last 1K probably had about 300-400 miles of pretty high revving/high speed miles.

Question: is a half quart burn for 1K of fairly high revving miles normal for the Coyote?

I've checked some other places online and many people seem to think this is fairly normal, but I'm used to my Toyota daily driver engines where if you burned a half-quart in 10K miles you'd be really, really worried. What has your experience been?

[cob427sc]

I've owned 2 Mustang GT500"s which have a similar engine. They both would use a little oil if you were agressive with the right foot. If I remeber the factory manual said 1qt/1000 miles was acceptable.

[edwardb]

I've had two Coyote builds. Gen 2 and Gen 3. Neither have used enough oil to need any added during the driving season. Usually don't see any change on the dipstick. I average 2-3K miles in our somewhat short driving season and change it before winterizing. All relatively mild street cruising. Nothing too crazy. I have used JLT oil separators and there's very little collected.

[J R Jones]

I have around 2K total miles on my Gen II Coyote, and did an initial oil change at around 1K— so somewhere around 1K miles since oil change. I went to check the oil a few days ago and noticed I'm about a half-quart low from when I changed it. Those last 1K probably had about 300-400 miles of pretty high revving/high speed miles.

Question: is a half quart burn for 1K of fairly high revving miles normal for the Coyote?

I've checked some other places online and many people seem to think this is fairly normal, but I'm used to my Toyota daily driver engines where if you burned a half-quart in 10K miles you'd be really, really worried. What has your experience been?

I expect it would take significant time and treasure to troubleshoot that magnitude of oil consumption, and the source may not be discovered. Oil in that volume is not expensive.
A Ford is not a Toyota. My anal retentive tendency leads to oil changes at 5000 miles, so I cannot speak to your Toyota experience.

FWIW oil breaks down over time and the actual oil consumption rate progresses through the change interval.
jim

[NAZ]

I remember that 5.0L F-150 trucks had oil usage issues reported to be caused by low tension rings and sucking oil through the PCV system on deceleration. Got so bad that Ford was replacing short blocks under warranty for a while then decided just to have the dealers add oil as needed through the warranty period. I believe there were two or three TSBs regarding the issue. And seems there was a class action lawsuit filed but I've lost interest since my F150 is powered by an older mod engine and I didn't search for these again so just going off memory. If you have an oil burning Coyote you may want to research this and see what the final fix was if any. Low tension 2nd rings will pass oil -- they are the real oil control rings as besides transferring heat from the piston they pump excess oil off the cylinder walls. And PCV systems are notorious for passing oil into the intake so these are certainly things to look at and both have well developed mitigating strategies, some even legal in CA if that's a concern.

Since the only Fords I own are trucks, I don't pay much attention to Mustangs or other Coyote powered vehicles. But those engines may also have some of the same issues that the F-150 Coyotes had (have?).

IMO, Ford has made way more problematic engines than they have reliable ones. And once I made my living working on them, some under warranty and some on the customer's dime. If it wasn't for their trucks I'd never own another Ford.

[J R Jones]

Introducing another manufacture into the thread. Perhaps before NAZ worked with Fords, I worked for a Buick/Pontiac dealer writing service. Customers had their expectations on oil consumption, and GM took the stand that they would not warranty repair oil consumption less than a quart in 500 miles. That was the sixties, certainly the spec is more reasonable now, emissions you know. Oil changes then were at 2000 mile intervals, and we "oiled" the gravel drives and parking lot with the drain oil. Pollution you know.
There is a chance that the rings and cylinders are still seating, but they are likely close. If you like the way it runs, accept the oil consumption, it likely is not a deteriorating circumstance.
jim

[NAZ]

Jim, I don't disagree with your logic. Oil is much cheaper than R&R of the rings. I would do a leak-down to assess the ring seal and get a baseline for down the road but even if the leak-down showed significant leakage, if the engine ran well and there were no collateral issues from burning some oil, I'd add oil as required. Just like we did in the olden days. The OP's oil usage is not alarming. And I'd assess the crankcase vent system for signs of intake oil ingestion as this common issue is not too difficult or expensive to mitigate.

But if I found any drips on the floor, that would cause the earth to spin out of orbit and plummet into the sun so I'd pull the engine if necessary to seal every last leak I could find. Leaks are a trigger but adding oil between changes is not. It's gotta be from riding old motorcycles and driving old cars.

[J R Jones]

Richard, Yes, a bit of oil consumption is tolerable and you are right, the crankcase breathing is a "usual suspect"
Alpha did not mention the type of oil (mineral or synthetic) or weight. At his current mileage I would still be using mineral oil.

Oil leaking motorcycles? SOP with the dripolator system on a Harley drive chain.

One can be fastidious about an engine R&R, and disassembly, but schmidt has happened and could happen.

FWIW I ran a hotted-up Mazda rotary and added two stroke oil to the fuel, even though they had an oil injection, fed off the oil sump. A little oil-burn there was a good thing.
jim

[Alphamacaroon]

Thanks all. From what I'm gathering, it seems like it's nothing to be alarmed about. When I was taking it easy on the engine during break-in, it didn't burn any oil (that I could tell). Then in the last 1K miles where I started driving it way more aggressively, that's when I started to notice it. I think I just need to get used to it.

It seems like (to make an over generalization):

American Engines = oil is a consumable fluid.
Japanese/Korean Engines = oil is not a consumable fluid.
European Engines = oil is a "road conditioner".

:p

FWIW: I'm running factory recommended 5W20 Synthetic. If I want to see less oil burned, would it make a difference to move to a higher weight (especially since it's a warm weather car)? I'm sure I could start a 20 page discussion about oil, but my understanding is that these lower weight oils aren't recommended because they are necessarily better for your engine, but mostly because they allow manufacturers to reach fuel consumption standards. Is there some truth to that?

[J R Jones]

Back in the day, racing oil filters (Fram HP1) were recommended because with thick oil and high pump pressure, there was risk that you would blow the can off the filter mount plate at start-up.
That illustrates two points:
Start-up is a critical time to get oil distributed quickly, thin oil pumps more easily.
Thin oil reduces drag in engines for improved power and efficiency. Some NASCAR and NHRA engines are running thinner oil for that reason.

You should research your engine source for their recommendation on break-in oil. Synthetic is so "anti friction" that is can interfere with ring/cylinder break-in.
jim

[NAZ]

Yes I caught that higher oil usage at higher RPM in your original post and that's why I'm not alarmed nor surprised.

It's common among American engines that the PCV system and the valve cover vents are easy to get overwhelmed at sustained higher RPM and pass oil mist into the intake. The high velocity pressurized crankcase gasses will pick up oil mist and carry it into the intake where the oil will be burned along with the air/fuel mixture. American cars are not designed for use on the German Autobahn at high sustained speeds like Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Opal and other European cars are. Most folks won't see higher oil consumption as they don't get a chance to push their cars hard enough to overcome a limited crankcase ventilation system. So, there is little incentive for American automakers to design and install oil separation technology to prevent this.


So, if you only see increased oil usage at high sustained speeds it’s not unexpected but it also can be mitigated if you deem it worth the trouble and expense AND if the emissions regulations where you live will allow. At the very least, there are aftermarket oil separators that can reduce the amount of oil mist that migrates into the intake. They may not reduce oil usage but will help reduce the impact of oily crankcase gases introduced into the intake.


On a new engine it’s generally recommended to use straight dino oil as synthetic oil’s lubricity may increase the time it takes for the rings to seat. Not all experts agree (nothing new there). But I believe that to be true and I use dino oil for brake in, specifically BR30 in my engines as I’ve had good luck with it. But you should not go to a higher viscosity than what your engine builder recommends. Rotating clearances are set for a specific range or oil viscosity and the trend even in race engines is toward light oils. Back in the old days we used to use the choke to maintain a very rich mixture while breaking in the cam on a fresh engine. The rich mixture would tend to wash oil off the cylinder walls and reduce the ring to wall separation and increase wear, and the seating of the rings. That method was taught at the Ford Engineering Center where I took my training. Before that, Bon Ami, an abrasive sink cleaner, was used by mechanics to speed up the seating process. We’ve come a long way from these old methods.