Forte Sway Bar kit

[nucjd19]

Just wanted to give a little update to a question that came up recently from someone about installing a sway bar. I had noticed when I drove my roadster there was a bit of snap over steer lurking under the surface and I could definitely bring the rear end around to become the front end if I was in the wrong situation. So I reflexed ordered a front sway bar to help settle the rear end and then saw where a front sway bar would put quite a bit of understeer into the situation which then had me worried. I had pm'd J R Jones about it and he calmed me a bit and gave me excellent direction. Thank you Jim :) So I went ahead and installed it knowing I could easily uninstall it if it was too much. I set it up as soft as I could and with the rig under full weight. While I was there I adjusted the rocker panels to the best of my abilities and installed the side pipe hangers. Then went for a drive. It settled the rear quite nicely IMO and when I accelerated out of a corner it felt much more planted with less of feeling the rear wanted to meet the front end. This is just my seat of the pants feel after tracking 911s for years so I am very sensitive to that feeling. As for the install. It came with no instructions but the Forte website had enough pictures for me to get my head around the install. So it went in fine. Powder coated the raw steel brackets chrome for fun. I will know more once I actually get it on a proper autocross course at which point I might have a completely different opinion. Pictures for your time.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159110&d=1640302962
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159111&d=1640302962
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159109&d=1640302962
And a picture stopping for gas with my older daughter. This is the best part of the experience! cruising around with my little ones on a nice 60 degree afternoon in late December :)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159108&d=1640302637

[egchewy79]

how much trimming have you done? your PS door seems to be gapped quite nicely.

[Ted G]

Thanks for sharing..... That Might have been me asking in the "sway or not to sway" thread.

[nucjd19]

how much trimming have you done? your PS door seems to be gapped quite nicely. HA!! not sure how good the gap is but just used a sanding block, fine line tape and father time. I was scared to take too much off for the experts but wanted the door to settle into the opening.

[GoDadGo]

I'm also running a sway bar (.75") from Mike Forte on my car and am happy I have it.
My driving style and/or abilities work best with a car that tends to have a little push or understeer.
Oversteer can be easily achieved with just a little added pressure on the throttle pedal so it balances out nicely.
I had a C4 from 1995 until 2018 and needed to tame the tail of the MK-4 Roadster so it acted a little more like that old Corvette.
Old habits and driving styles die hard so that little change made me a lot more comfortable behind the wheel of my Little Red Roadster.

[nucjd19]

I'm also running a sway bar (.75") from Mike Forte on my car and am happy I have it.
My driving style and/or abilities work best with a car that tends to have a little push or understeer.
Oversteer can be easily achieved with just a little added pressure on the throttle pedal so it balances out nicely.
Also, I had my beloved C4 from 1995 until 2018 and needed to tame the tail of the MK-4 Roadster so it acted a little more like that old Corvette.
Old habits and driving styles die hard so that little change made me a lot more comfortable driving my Red Roadster.

Thank you for sharing the driving impressions you have encountered with the sway Bar Steve. I appreciate your perspective on it :)

[GoDadGo]

Thank you for sharing the driving impressions you have encountered with the sway Bar Steve. I appreciate your perspective on it :)

Just understand that I'm an Old Drag Racer so turning left and right is a rather foreign concept to me.

[Madfor67]

I used to do time-attack racing with Japanese and german cars. My short but initial driving impression of Mk4 with 3-link solid rear axle is similar to your’s. Front suspension without the front sway bar leans way too much during cornering compared to the rear causing oversteer bias. I need more seat time, but I might consider upgrading to IRS + sway bars or play with just the front sway bar and spring rates. Looking forward to find out how you fine tune your suspension setting.

[CraigS]

Is FFR still supplying 350 rear springs w/ the 3 link? If so, dropping to 300 or even 250 can help calm the rear end too.

[nucjd19]

Is FFR still supplying 350 rear springs w/ the 3 link? If so, dropping to 300 or even 250 can help calm the rear end too.
Good thought CraigS. Yes the rears are 350 and the fronts are 500 with rebound settings per Jeff Kleiner's recommendation from a post I found on here when I was starting my build.

[nucjd19]

I used to do time-attack racing with Japanese and german cars. My short but initial driving impression of Mk4 with 3-link solid rear axle is similar to your’s. Front suspension without the front sway bar leans way too much during cornering compared to the rear causing oversteer bias. I need more seat time, but I might consider upgrading to IRS + sway bars or play with just the front sway bar and spring rates. Looking forward to find out how you fine tune your suspension setting.

Appreciate your input Mad. I am glad I am not crazy of my "seat of the pants " analysis of my rig :) Do you have a MKIV with a 3 link? If so from what I understand swapping to an IRS setup requires pretty significant Fab/ welding skills per the experts on here and is rarely if ever done. Would love to see pictures if you go that route. In hindsight if I was to have done it again I think I would have gone with IRS rather than the 3 link. With the being said the car is much more capable of a rig than I am a driver in either configuration and the pilot is the weakest link :)

[GoDadGo]

When they ran the Challenge Series many had 3-Link rear suspension.
They added a front sway bar some time down the road.
The current I.R.S. didn't come on the scene until 2015.
If I had to do it over again, it would definitely be with the 3-Link rear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhYP7JQM8vQ

[Fman]

Looks good Jon, just curious how low does that sway bar hang down below the frame? I guess a better question is how high is it off the ground? I have considered a sway bar on my car but it seems to be fine for street driving. Did you notice a big handling difference with adding the sway bar?

[jwd]

I just installed one of mikes sway bars also. With no instructions there was quite a bit of second guessing on my part but pretty straight forward. One thing I did was to use a hole saw on the angle bracket that bolts to the end of the frame where it blocked the tie down hole.now the bracket matches the hole so it’s still useable.

[nucjd19]

Looks good Jon, just curious how low does that sway bar hang down below the frame? I guess a better question is how high is it off the ground? I have considered a sway bar on my car but it seems to be fine for street driving. Did you notice a big handling difference with adding the sway bar?

Thanks Fman!! I will get you a measurement and let you know and some pictures. I would say the difference is mild to moderate at normal driving speeds so not massively different but put me on a track and ask me that question again and I might have a different answer LOL! I was just really worried I was going to introduce a lot of understeer into the system but luckily I have not noticed that. Just seems to plan the rear end a little better.

[GoDadGo]

Steve's Stupid Question:

What diameter was the bar that you purchased from Mike Forte?

When I ordered mine (2015) he sold a 3/4" and a 7/8" bar.
I chose the smaller of the two bars.

[Fman]

I just installed one of mikes sway bars also. With no instructions there was quite a bit of second guessing on my part but pretty straight forward. One thing I did was to use a hole saw on the angle bracket that bolts to the end of the frame where it blocked the tie down hole.now the bracket matches the hole so it’s still useable.

I have a car hauler and use the front holes off frame to secure the front end. Do you have any pics on how you did your install? Thanks

[nucjd19]

Travis. I looked under my rig and the sway bar itself is about ¼-½" above the bottom of the 4" tubing.
Steve. Forte does not sy on his sight which one it is but I measured it for Jim and it measures 7/8.

[Fman]

Travis. I looked under my rig and the sway bar itself is about ¼-½" above the bottom of the 4" tubing.
Steve. Forte does not sy on his sight which one it is but I measured it for Jim and it measures 7/8.

Jon, what about the outside of the sway bar is that lower than the frame? Hard to tell with the pics but it appears to be sitting lower. Asking because I am about 3 3/4" of clearance on front 4" tubes from ground right now, definitely do not want anything hanging lower than that under the car.

[nucjd19]

Jon, what about the outside of the sway bar is that lower than the frame? Hard to tell with the pics but it appears to be sitting lower. Asking because I am about 3 3/4" of clearance on front 4" tubes from ground right now, definitely do not want anything hanging lower than that under the car.

Sorry about that. I'll check. Remember in that picture the suspension is full drop on the lift so that should change drastically when sitting on the wheels

[GoDadGo]

Hey Gents,

I've had no issue dragging anything including my sway bar and my ride height is pretty darn low at or about 3 3/4".

Steve

[WIS89]

Jon-

Really enjoyed your recent pictures -- especially that last one. Somehow these cars are so much more fun when shared with those you love!!

Merry Christmas Shipmate!

Regards,

Steve

[jwd]

159163159164[ATTACH=CONFIG]159165[/ATTACH ]Here are a couple pics of mine. Merry Christmas everyone!

[Jeff Kleiner]

When they ran the Challenge Series many had 3-Link rear suspension.
They added a front sway bar some time down the road.
The current I.R.S. didn't come on the scene until 2015.
If I had to do it over again, it would definitely be with the 3-Link rear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhYP7JQM8vQ

Challenge cars were all 3 link and had 500# front and 750# rear springs with no bars…same as what I run with my car.

Stiffening only the front via a bar or higher rate spring without a corresponding change to the rear stiffness will exacerbate the push that the roadster has with the Factory spring rates (500F/350R with a 3 link).

Jeff

[nucjd19]

Challenge cars were all 3 link and had 500# front and 750# rear springs with no bars…same as what I run with my car.

Stiffening only the front via a bar or higher rate spring without a corresponding change to the rear stiffness will exacerbate the push that the roadster has with the Factory spring rates (350F/500R with a 3 link).

Jeff

If anyone on this forum knows how these rigs drive at all levels it is you Jeff. So I was really worried about this after reading your initial posts but having already ordered the sway bar. So I thought I should at least try it out. I set it up as soft as possible. For speed limit driving the understeer does not seem bad but I have not pushed it hard yet which will probably change things quickly. My springs are set up 500F/350R. Do I need to change that? Thanks!

[nucjd19]

Jon, what about the outside of the sway bar is that lower than the frame? Hard to tell with the pics but it appears to be sitting lower. Asking because I am about 3 3/4" of clearance on front 4" tubes from ground right now, definitely do not want anything hanging lower than that under the car.

Travis, I took some pics and measured. I have 3.5" from the very lateral lower point to the floor. Hope this helps :)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159166&d=1640388469
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159167&d=1640388469

[nucjd19]

Jon-

Really enjoyed your recent pictures -- especially that last one. Somehow these cars are so much more fun when shared with those you love!!

Merry Christmas Shipmate!

Regards,

Steve

Merry Christmas my friend!!! Totally agree. The best part is sharing the fun with my family :)

[GoDadGo]

Challenge cars were all 3 link and had 500# front and 750# rear springs with no bars…same as what I run with my car.

Stiffening only the front via a bar or higher rate spring without a corresponding change to the rear stiffness will exacerbate the push that the roadster has with the Factory spring rates (350F/500R with a 3 link).

Jeff

Apparently someone, likely Jesper at Factory-5 decided to add a front sway bar (Part #15462) because they uploaded this tidbit back on 11/29/2011.
It was included as supplemental instructions as "Optional Equipment" for either the standard or competition roadsters when I ordered my kit in 2014.

Shown below is the PDF from Factory-5's website:
https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/SWAYBAR.pdf

Note: Also, per the manual's instructions, I'm running 500-lbs up front with 350-lbs spings in the rear.
.........I think you pulled a Go-Dad and went all Dyslexic on us and swapped the front & rear spring rates.

[CraigS]

Wait until you run some autocrosses before worrying about how the bar affects handling balance. Unless you can find some out of the way place there is no way to judge handing on the street. It is just too dangerous to be making 1G corners unless you are in a closed off area.