View Full Version : 818 Chassis Go Karted?
C.Tree
11-14-2011, 01:36 AM
Can anyone confirm if the 818 has been go karted? It would be good to see video of 0-60 in 2 seconds!
PhyrraM
11-14-2011, 02:27 AM
Latest pic indicate it's not a runner yet.
SEMA pics (last week) have no wiring, brake lines, seats, fuel tank or lines, etc...
I, personally, think there is a second prototype chassis under construction, but no official word of such a thing.
Draco-REX
11-14-2011, 09:12 AM
I'm pretty sure when it's in running condition, it'll be driven. FFR will want to show that their changes to the Subaru drivetrain will work and hold up to the engine's power.
kach22i
11-14-2011, 10:03 AM
I, personally, think there is a second prototype chassis under construction..........
That would be my best guess as well based on the accessibility issues brought up by David H.
They would have to give that first chassis the "old man test" or "Wookie Test" with stock WRX seats.
I don't know the outcome of such a test, but this would be the point/stage to make a major improvement or change.
crackedcornish
11-15-2011, 09:39 AM
Latest pic indicate it's not a runner yet.
SEMA pics (last week) have no wiring, brake lines, seats, fuel tank or lines, etc...
I, personally, think there is a second prototype chassis under construction, but no official word of such a thing.
that would be one explanation as to why nothing has been done with a chassis that was originally shown to us way back before the design competition started. Even if the shop guys at FFR had no idea what the body would look like, or where the fuel tank would end up, they should still be able to plumb the brakes, do the trans mods/shifter linkage and some engine and basic chassis wiring.
Although, if they were doing a redesign of the chassis because they wanted to use some of the different designs, changed where some major components were to be mounted, or found some geometry problems..why not just say so?
..yup, it sure would be nice to see some actual progress on the mechanical side of this
wjfawb0
11-15-2011, 12:54 PM
..yup, it sure would be nice to see some actual progress on the mechanical side of this
That's how I feel. I care more about the function of the car, and most of the discussion seems to be dedicated to aesthetics which are near the bottom of my list for this type of vehicle. Usually I look up Dave's username and search for his new posts.
spaceywilly
11-15-2011, 02:24 PM
That's how I feel. I care more about the function of the car, and most of the discussion seems to be dedicated to aesthetics which are near the bottom of my list for this type of vehicle. Usually I look up Dave's username and search for his new posts.
I do the same thing. I wish they would have a place we could go just to get the progress on the car without having to filter through all the whining.
SkiRideDrive
11-16-2011, 12:02 PM
I do the same thing. I wish they would have a place we could go just to get the progress on the car without having to filter through all the whining.
Absolutely. Although, the searching for Dave's username is a good alternative.
BipDBo
11-16-2011, 12:12 PM
Absolutely. Although, the searching for Dave's username is a good alternative.
Even in Dave's posts, you'll find a bit of whining.
With much respect, Dave.
Twinspool
11-16-2011, 09:07 PM
Why do you think they've 'gone dark' WRT this forum since before SEMA? Dave made light of Jim's eye twitch but it's not productive for a company to leak info and then have the enthusiastic, exuberant and ignorant public pick it to pieces.
They're proven professionals and I can't blame them for clamming up. We'll get the results and they'll be fantastic, I just know it.
crackedcornish
11-16-2011, 09:40 PM
Why do you think they've 'gone dark' WRT this forum since before SEMA? Dave made light of Jim's eye twitch but it's not productive for a company to leak info and then have the enthusiastic, exuberant and ignorant public pick it to pieces.
They're proven professionals and I can't blame them for clamming up. We'll get the results and they'll be fantastic, I just know it.
on the other hand. if they told us what was happening we could possibly offer up helpful suggestions/ideas, much the same way it happened with some of the body designs
Although, if they were doing a redesign of the chassis because they wanted to use some of the different designs, changed where some major components were to be mounted, or found some geometry problems..why not just say so?
..yup, it sure would be nice to see some actual progress on the mechanical side of this
If that is the case I can see why they are clamming up. People will nit pick them to death over every single little thing they change. And I'm sure it's just small little things mainly. The more time they spend on the car and less time arguing with whiney cry babies the sooner this car will come out. Don't forget, major car companies take many years with millions of funds in backing, give them a break. We don't need to question or even know what they are doing there mechanically yet as they are trying to figure that out. They will continue to get feedback on what we can easily give and that's the design of the body.
DrieStone
11-21-2011, 11:53 AM
on the other hand. if they told us what was happening we could possibly offer up helpful suggestions/ideas, much the same way it happened with some of the body designs
In my experience, you can get a lot more done when someone isn't standing over your shoulder. We have to accept that Dave and the FFR engineers are going to make decisions that we won't love, that's just part of the process. I'm sure they're keeping their eye on the ball, and I have no doubt there is an internal schedule and deadlines to hit. Every day that the 818 isn't being sold to customers costs FFR money. I'm not surprised they're not offering up too many details. They have their collective heads down and they're getting stuff done (one would assume).
crackedcornish
11-21-2011, 12:17 PM
In my experience, you can get a lot more done when someone isn't standing over your shoulder. We have to accept that Dave and the FFR engineers are going to make decisions that we won't love, that's just part of the process. I'm sure they're keeping their eye on the ball, and I have no doubt there is an internal schedule and deadlines to hit. Every day that the 818 isn't being sold to customers costs FFR money. I'm not surprised they're not offering up too many details. They have their collective heads down and they're getting stuff done (one would assume).
I too have confidence in FFR but, if they're just sitting there procrastinating over a problem, they may just need some fresh perspective on said problem to help solve it...and some times they just need a kick in the pants to get them going again ;)
I too have confidence in FFR but, if they're just sitting there procrastinating over a problem, they may just need some fresh perspective on said problem to help solve it...and some times they just need a kick in the pants to get them going again ;)
Why do you assume they are procrastinating over a single problem? Based purely on the fact that they have well over a decade designing and building cars I highly doubt they are just sitting there twitching their thumbs. And they are getting outside help from the subaru community, shops that specialize in them. So unless you too have massive amount of experience in either field I just don't see what anyone here can bring to the table. And if you have invaluable insight on the mechanical working then you wouldn't be begging for a daily update, you'd be sending in your resume.
olpro
11-21-2011, 01:46 PM
There is really no evidence that anything has happened on the chassis development.
Likewise, there is no evidence of any progress on detailing or photos of the existing scale models.
Their "decade of designing and building cars" unfortunately does not include the "designing" part. This is their first time for that. That is the fact.
Dave Smith
11-21-2011, 02:06 PM
Guys,
Just got back from West Coast. BTW: Car Warriors project cars (33 hot rods built in 48 hours) was one of the most intense, fun, exciting and unvbelievable shows we've ever done. The customers who made the teams built truly remakable cars!!!! So, I was out there for the last day of filming.
Anyway, Jim and Jesper have made a bunch of changes to the 818 chassis. Most of the changes have been on the drawing file and derived from the first pass chassis that was shown at Open House (and relatively unchanged at SEMA).
The body design obviously has room to grow and change and some bit of time. R&D/Engineering just finished up on the LS and SB Chevy kits for the 33 Hot Rod and now they are working on RHD Mk4 and Hot Rod, and Coyote install kits for the Mk4 and Hot Rod, as well as chipping away at the mythical FIA project, and spending considerable time on the 818 Chasiss and body.
Right now we are putting together a launch plan/schedule and resource plan for 2012. more details, but nothing more cryptic than working hard on a cool car or two.
spaceywilly
11-21-2011, 02:12 PM
There is really no evidence that anything has happened on the chassis development.
Likewise, there is no evidence of any progress on detailing or photos of the existing scale models.
Their "decade of designing and building cars" unfortunately does not include the "designing" part. This is their first time for that. That is the fact.
Didn't they design the GTM? I'm sure they are just busy from SEMA and everything else that's going on and updating us isn't (and shouldn't be) a high priority.
crackedcornish
11-21-2011, 02:53 PM
Why do you assume they are procrastinating over a single problem? Based purely on the fact that they have well over a decade designing and building cars I highly doubt they are just sitting there twitching their thumbs. And they are getting outside help from the subaru community, shops that specialize in them. So unless you too have massive amount of experience in either field I just don't see what anyone here can bring to the table. And if you have invaluable insight on the mechanical working then you wouldn't be begging for a daily update, you'd be sending in your resume.
didn't say they were...I said "if" and I'm not asking for daily updates... but it has been over 6 months since they have shown us any progress on the chassis
There is really no evidence that anything has happened on the chassis development.
Likewise, there is no evidence of any progress on detailing or photos of the existing scale models.
Their "decade of designing and building cars" unfortunately does not include the "designing" part. This is their first time for that. That is the fact.
What is this, a court room? Just cause they don't show you the inner workings, drawings and what they have done so far since last means it doesn't exist? Cmon gimme a break. You know 1000x more about this cars development then any other production car before, during and after production. Granted it's a different market but when was the last time any car company did any of the sort. And your kind of bickering of "tell me more now or I think you're just sitting around playing xbox making us wait" is why major car companies always try to keep as hush as possible.
Even if it's a replica they still have to design the body to fit the chasis they designed. It's not like you can go get the body panels from the car it replicates and say wala it fits! It's not building a space craft or the empire state building but there is work, design and R&D involved every step of the way.
Anyway, Jim and Jesper have made a bunch of changes to the 818 chassis. Most of the changes have been on the drawing file and derived from the first pass chassis that was shown at Open House (and relatively unchanged at SEMA).
didn't say they were...I said "if" and I'm not asking for daily updates... but it has been over 6 months since they have shown us any progress on the chassis
And I bet you any and most of those changes get swapped around alot. There would be no point in saying hey we changed this arm 2 degrees or made this beam longer/thicker/wtvr. They have to do alot to make it work while putting time towards other things too. The 818 isn't the only car they are working on.
olpro
11-21-2011, 08:41 PM
from post #16 above,
“Their "decade of designing and building cars" unfortunately does not include the "designing" part. This is their first time for that. That is the fact. “
I need to clarify that statement. It refers to “design” as the creation and development of an original body design for a vehicle, NOT the extensive engineering activities of developing chassis and components nor the broad engineering development for manufacture which is often called (especially by engineers) as “design” also.
Of course Industrial Designers like me do not own the word so confusion is inevitable and it is my fault. For this I apologize and want to clarify what I really meant.
The 818 project is unique for the FFR organization in that is does not involve the creation of a replica of any kind. Indeed the lion’s share of the discussion on this site is about the creation of an original body design for this vehicle. Also, most of the participants in this group know me as a “designer”, not an engineer. Nonetheless, I should have been far more careful about my language.
FFR has successfully created chassis designs, components and manufacturing methods for a number of vehicles and that is a fact too.
Xusia
11-21-2011, 11:08 PM
Am I missing something?!? Who designed the chassis and body of the GTM? I was under the distinct impression it was FFR.
olpro
11-21-2011, 11:22 PM
Yes they did the chassis and all that development for that vehicle.
However the body design started out as a GT-40 replica. Although the visuals drifted somewhat from that starting point, such a mutation is not the same as the stated goal of the 818 - an original body design from the get-go.
bromikl
11-22-2011, 09:03 AM
...as well as chipping away at the mythical FIA project...
Silly question: What's the FIA project?
jimgood
11-22-2011, 09:12 AM
Silly question: What's the FIA project?
It's a body for the Roadster chassis that is modeled after the Cobra 289 FIA.
mekeys
11-22-2011, 12:57 PM
With out photos there's no proof it ever happened..
Mel
from post #16 above,
“Their "decade of designing and building cars" unfortunately does not include the "designing" part. This is their first time for that. That is the fact. “
I need to clarify that statement. It refers to “design” as the creation and development of an original body design for a vehicle, NOT the extensive engineering activities of developing chassis and components nor the broad engineering development for manufacture which is often called (especially by engineers) as “design” also.
Of course Industrial Designers like me do not own the word so confusion is inevitable and it is my fault. For this I apologize and want to clarify what I really meant.
The 818 project is unique for the FFR organization in that is does not involve the creation of a replica of any kind. Indeed the lion’s share of the discussion on this site is about the creation of an original body design for this vehicle. Also, most of the participants in this group know me as a “designer”, not an engineer. Nonetheless, I should have been far more careful about my language.
FFR has successfully created chassis designs, components and manufacturing methods for a number of vehicles and that is a fact too.
I had a feeling that was what you ment. I do mix and max meanings alot like that so it's no surprise the confusion. Such as a motor is not an ICE where an engine is mainly that yet everyone always calls an ICE a motor.
I still "think" there is a considerable amount of design even if it is just a replica. Someone still has to do the work involved just like major car companies. Question, is a painter a copy machine just cause they are painting something that exists vs pure imagination?
Am I missing something?!? Who designed the chassis and body of the GTM? I was under the distinct impression it was FFR.
The chassis was designed by FFR. According to FFR the body is their interpretation of the GT-40, however if you google VBM 4000 gtc (a french race car from the 90's) you will see a more likely muse.
Xusia
11-22-2011, 07:31 PM
The influence sure looks to be there, but still, at best the GTM body shape is a rough approximation. Perhaps they had fewer parameters to juggle, but they still designed an original body in my opinion. :)