Wilwood Parking Brake Clearance Issue

[facultyofmusic]

Summary: The wilwood parking brake caliper is scraping the inner wheel well.

The parking brake from FFR's wilwood brake hit sits a lot further away from the rotor than the main calipers; such that the top of the parking brake caliper is scraping the inner wheel well. In the pictures below you can see the point of contact as well as scrape marks in the wheel well.
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The wheels I got are: https://lmr.com/item/WK-1007SBAA/bullitt-wheel-kit-17x9-10-anthracite-9404

Being 17" wheels I totally thought they'd clear the wilwood brake kit. What are my available solutions here? Grind down the caliper a bit? Can't think of much else and I really do want to keep using these wheels...

[Blitzboy54]

I had the same issue with LMR wheels. I had to go to a totally different brake system. I would call Gordon Levy and explore your options. I have a straight axle so not apples to apples. But I know he has solutions

[Gordon Levy]

The issue is the deep dish version of that wheel has a bigger drop center and has clearance issues. The non-deep dish version does not have this problem.

[facultyofmusic]

Before I switch to a different e-brake system or wheels, I'm going to see if I can modify the parking brake bracket to bring the calipers a little closer to the rotor. From what I see the clearance is only off by one or two millimeters, so if I can bring the calipers in that would allow me to keep my current set-up.

[CraigS]

I can't see the pad in relation to the rotor but I suspect your idea of mounting the caliper closer to the center of the wheel is the fix. I'd rather mod the bracket than the caliper. OTOH, if needed, grinding some off the caliper shouldn't be a problem. I have ground the main calipers before so grinding a park brake caliper wouldn't bothe me at all.

[facultyofmusic]

I spoke to JohnK about this yesterday and he mentioned the new wilwood electronic parking brake kit. I'll call wilwood and ask them about the clearance on the calipers of the new kit and if clears the wheels, I may just switch to the wilwood electronic e-brake kit if it fits.

[Blue Viking]

I spoke to JohnK about this yesterday and he mentioned the new wilwood electronic parking brake kit. I'll call wilwood and ask them about the clearance on the calipers of the new kit and if clears the wheels, I may just switch to the wilwood electronic e-brake kit if it fits.

I replaced the supplied wilwood parking brake calipers with the electronic kit. As far as I can tell, the red caliper portions are identical. The electronic brakes has a big chunk of an actuator on them instead of the cable lever. I had to swap sides to clear the springs.

[facultyofmusic]

Thanks for the swift reply Oystein. Looks like I'll go with the planned bracket modification / caliper grinding after all.

[facultyofmusic]

After taking a closer look at the caliper, bracket, and it's spatial relation to the rotor, I've decided to taper down the caliper at the point of contact with the wheel by a quarter of an inch. The wheel well is tapered towards the axle towards the outside of the wheel, so only a small part of the caliper needs to be ground, not the whole thing.
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Q: Why not just buy new wheels?
A: Due to the brake caliper scraping against the inner wheel well, there is now a nasty scrap line where the caliper contacts the wheels. I won't be able to return them for a reasonable price. Shipping them back would also cost quite a lot. I don't have another car that can make use of these wheels, and TBH I'm really fond of these wheels, so they're here to stay.

Q: Why not bring the whole assembly closer to the rotor?
A: There isn't enough free space to move the brake assembly. I've measured the distance between the caliper body and the brake rotor in its current position and there's maximum ~2.5mm of space. Bringing the assembly closer to the rotor risks the rotor coming into contact with the brake pad guide shafts. Not to mention the geometry of the caliper itself also may interfere with the rotor, and if so, will need to be ground regardless.
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[facultyofmusic]

Now time for some misfortune. The bolt that secures the red painted caliper head to the assembly is near impossible to undo by hand. I used my vise to secure the assembly and used a lot of leverage (in the form of a big f***ing wrench) just to break it loose. In the process of doing this, I clamped too tightly on the piston housing and cracked it. Yep. Cracked it by clamping it too tightly on a vise.

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So now I'm writing an email to Wilwood customer support hoping to order a new piston housing.

[egchewy79]

Man, this story keeps getting worse. Sorry for your luck. Why do you need to take the caliper apart? couldn't you just grind down the top lip?

[rich grsc]

Now time for some misfortune. The bolt that secures the red painted caliper head to the assembly is near impossible to undo by hand. I used my vise to secure the assembly and used a lot of leverage (in the form of a big f***ing wrench) just to break it loose. In the process of doing this, I clamped too tightly on the piston housing and cracked it. Yep. Cracked it by clamping it too tightly on a vise.

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So now I'm writing an email to Wilwood customer support hoping to order a new piston housing.

Damn that's unfortunate. I'm betting that is assembled with red LocTite, needs heat to come apart.

[facultyofmusic]

Damn that's unfortunate. I'm betting that is assembled with red LocTite, needs heat to come apart.

You're probably right. Should have thought about that.


Man, this story keeps getting worse. Sorry for your luck. Why do you need to take the caliper apart? couldn't you just grind down the top lip?

I wanted to take the caliper apart to give myself better clamping points on a mill. I'm fortunate to have a friend with a mill he could use to mill off some material from the calipers, but there's no way he can mount the whole setup as is. The whole thing also looked simple enough that disassembling it wouldn't be such a hassle.

[SJDave]

Most of us have something similar we did also, welcome to the club! When you get the new one, I would be more than happy to help you machine off the material that needs removal. Yes, I have a Bridgeport Mill, but I would not use it. I would clamp the assembly in my vise with soft jaws and use a 4 1/2 " flap disc grinder to remove the bulk of the metal, then use the Scotchbrite wheel on my pedestal stand polisher to smooth it out and fine tune the shape. It 's amazing how well the scotchbrite wheels work for shaping metal. They are pricey, about $60 each, but last quite a long time until the diameter is too small to be useful for most things. Most used tool in my shop by far! PM me or Email me, I think I gave you that info a few weeks ago, if you want to proceed with this method.

Cheers,
Dave

I wanted to take the caliper apart to give myself better clamping points on a mill. I'm fortunate to have a friend with a mill he could use to mill off some material from the calipers, but there's no way he can mount the whole setup as is. The whole thing also looked simple enough that disassembling it wouldn't be such a hassle.[/QUOTE]

[nucjd19]

You're probably right. Should have thought about that.



I wanted to take the caliper apart to give myself better clamping points on a mill. I'm fortunate to have a friend with a mill he could use to mill off some material from the calipers, but there's no way he can mount the whole setup as is. The whole thing also looked simple enough that disassembling it wouldn't be such a hassle.

That makes sense. I was trying to figure out why you were tearing it down. Hopefully Wilwood will get you squared away quickly.

[NAZ]

I run 15" wheels with 12.19" rotors and there is no room for a caliper style parking brake. So I used a hydraulic parking lock like used in aircraft. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Motors-Park-Lok-Valve-With-Fittings,387282.html

Very easy to install and low cost. Push on the brake and close the valve then let off the pedal. To release, simply pump the brake hard and the spring loaded valve opens.

[Avalanche325]

I run 15" wheels with 12.19" rotors and there is no room for a caliper style parking brake. So I used a hydraulic parking lock like used in aircraft. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Motors-Park-Lok-Valve-With-Fittings,387282.html

Very easy to install and low cost. Push on the brake and close the valve then let off the pedal. To release, simply pump the brake hard and the spring loaded valve opens.

Not technically legal in most states as a parking brake. In Florida, for instance the parking brake cannot release due to a leak. "The parking brakes shall be so designed that when once applied they shall remain applied with the required effectiveness despite exhaustion of any source of energy or leakage of any kind."

[rich grsc]

Not technically legal in most states as a parking brake. In Florida, for instance the parking brake cannot release due to a leak. "The parking brakes shall be so designed that when once applied they shall remain applied with the required effectiveness despite exhaustion of any source of energy or leakage of any kind."
How many times have you been inspected for that?:rolleyes:

[facultyofmusic]

Most of us have something similar we did also, welcome to the club! When you get the new one, I would be more than happy to help you machine off the material that needs removal. Yes, I have a Bridgeport Mill, but I would not use it. I would clamp the assembly in my vise with soft jaws and use a 4 1/2 " flap disc grinder to remove the bulk of the metal, then use the Scotchbrite wheel on my pedestal stand polisher to smooth it out and fine tune the shape. It 's amazing how well the scotchbrite wheels work for shaping metal. They are pricey, about $60 each, but last quite a long time until the diameter is too small to be useful for most things. Most used tool in my shop by far! PM me or Email me, I think I gave you that info a few weeks ago, if you want to proceed with this method.

Cheers,
Dave


Hey Dave! Yes I have your contact info, please excuse me for the lack of follow up. Hope you're doing alright! As for the decision between mill vs flap disc grinder, I decided on the mill because I simply don't trust my own skills with a flap disc and my angle grinder. I'm sure I can get it ground down to somewhat close to the shape I want, but I wouldn't ever hope to make it symmetrical. So in my mind, using a mill will result in a much cleaner look. Symmetrical too! Perhaps I'm just not experienced enough with a grinder. I'll contact you soon!

[facultyofmusic]

I run 15" wheels with 12.19" rotors and there is no room for a caliper style parking brake. So I used a hydraulic parking lock like used in aircraft. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Motors-Park-Lok-Valve-With-Fittings,387282.html

Very easy to install and low cost. Push on the brake and close the valve then let off the pedal. To release, simply pump the brake hard and the spring loaded valve opens.

Oh that's actually super neat! One of those things where you look at it and say "of course this exists!" I think I'll still go with the parking brakes because I love the action of pulling the e-brake handle (just one of those analog things), but the knowledge of that thing's existence is valuable.

[facultyofmusic]

Looks like the parking brake assembly of my rear brake kit (https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdRear?itemno=140-14090-DR) is just a normal "120-12070-RD - Wilwood MC4 Mechanical Parking Brake Calipers (https://www.wilwood.com/calipers/caliperlist?subname=mc4%20mechanical)". They are available from Summit Racing for $138 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-120-12070-rd). Sweet! I'm still going to email Wilwood to see if I can get just the piston housing, but it's good to know that if that's not possible I can just buy another assembly without breaking a leg.

[JohnK]

How many times have you been inspected for that?:rolleyes:

There's only one inspection that matters - the one when you're trying to get it titled/licensed. As mentioned, this is not a street legal setup in CA. It may work fine, but then again it may prevent you from titled/licensed if you get the wrong inspector. Your choice on whether you want to try to retrofit a compliant parking brake after the fact.

[facultyofmusic]

I've received the following reply from wilwood:


Thank you for the inquiry with Wilwood Disc Brakes.

Unfortunately we do not offer that part of the caliper for sale, we would recommend purchasing a new replacment caliper from one of our distributers like Summit or Jegs as their pricing tends to be the best.

https://www.summitracing.com/
https://www.jegs.com/

Regards,
Wilwood Disc Brakes

So the answer is no and I'll have to buy a new parking brake assembly.

[Gordon Levy]

I have couple calipers in stock.

[Avalanche325]

How many times have you been inspected for that?:rolleyes:

Precisely zero. They don't inspect anything in Florida.

However, people should be aware if what they are doing is legal or not. Some states absolutely DO inspect things like this to get a Cobra titled.

That's kind of what this forum is for.....helping others by spreading knowledge. ��

[NAZ]

That's one of the many reasons I love living in a free state. The government doesn't insist on regulating everything you do. It took me less than an hour to get my FFR hot rod inspected and titled / licensed and insured (three different processes at different locations). I never had to pull it out of the enclosed trailer. No smog check. Didn't even check that the horn and wipers worked, the only required equipment on the inspection. A third of that time was spent with the inspector and later my insurance agent drooling over the car and asking questions unrelated to their inspections. How fast is it? How long did it take to build it? How'd you learn to do all that yourself? Y'all know that drill.

When I lived in SoCal, the guberment was hell-bent to regulate everything fun out of existence and mark my words, you live there long enough and you'll see a day that kit cars and IC engines will be outlawed. It'll likely start with regulations on how old a vehicle can be and still be licensed. Then a compliance date that only electric vehicles can be sold in the state. Eventually your gas and diesel powered cars will age-out and the only replacement option will be electric. I'm old but I expect it will be in my lifetime.

[rich grsc]

That's one of the many reasons I love living in a free state. The government doesn't insist on regulating everything you do. It took me less than an hour to get my FFR hot rod inspected and titled / licensed and insured (three different processes at different locations). I never had to pull it out of the enclosed trailer. No smog check. Didn't even check that the horn and wipers worked, the only required equipment on the inspection. A third of that time was spent with the inspector and later my insurance agent drooling over the car and asking questions unrelated to their inspections. How fast is it? How long did it take to build it? How'd you learn to do all that yourself? Y'all know that drill.

When I lived in SoCal, the guberment was hell-bent to regulate everything fun out of existence and mark my words, you live there long enough and you'll see a day that kit cars and IC engines will be outlawed. It'll likely start with regulations on how old a vehicle can be and still be licensed. Then a compliance date that only electric vehicles can be sold in the state. Eventually your gas and diesel powered cars will age-out and the only replacement option will be electric. I'm old but I expect it will be in my lifetime.
Amen. :eek:

[Lancaster Lad]

Naz
It already happening. Some people are stuck with diesel trucks that cannot be registered.
That is why i made a road trip to Bullhead City over the holidays, just looking.

[Avalanche325]

Florida was pretty much the easiest state to get registered in when I did mine. You only needed the MCO and one DMV form. 45 min in the door and out with tags in hand. Apparently, they changed that and now it is not so easy.

I spent 10 years in SoCal. DMV there is a circus. Not to mention that the state likes to regulate everything about everything.
I came back from living overseas and they made me get a learners permit, go away for a few weeks, and then come back and do the whole drivers test. Written and road. I showed them a valid New Zealand license and an expired SC license. Nope.

[facultyofmusic]

After speaking with Dave offline I was convinced that I can tackle this with an angle grinder. I'm glad I did! Turns out I greatly underestimated the curvature required. I had to take the caliper off a few times to revise the curve, but the end results works well! In the pictures below you can see the almost spherical surface I ground out using a flap wheel.
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There is a good amount of clearance between the wheel well and the caliper surface. I plan to paint the calipers with the same red (or as close as I can find) as the original caliper colours. The good part is that because the calipers sit at 12 o'clock of the rotor, you can't even see the ground surfaces unless you squat down and really try! Here's a picture of clearance and final result with the wheel back on:
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Thanks Dave!