Bob's Daytona Build

[LateApex]

I'm off to a late start posting bits about my build. I realized this morning how much I enjoy reading about and learning from others' projects. Time for me to ante up methinks :-)

I have started with ...

Type 65 complete kit
Powder-coated chassis
Platinum gauges
Mounts for a SBF
FFR Headers
Hydraulic clutch
FFR leather seats and carpeting
3-link rear suspension
Battery cut-off switch
Front sway bar
Nose scoops
17" Halibrand wheels
Wilwood Brakes
Moser 8.8" rear axle.

Blueprint / Marshall Engines 347
TKX and mid-shift option
Eight-Stack Systems Weber-style EFI

I placed my order on 3/19/2021
I received my kit via Stewart on 9/22/2021
Various parts have been trickling in since

As many have also, I have swizzled the build sequence to keep things moving in the face of back-ordered or missing parts. This, in a funny way, has been kinda rewarding. Instead of following the script, I have had to think a bit more about what I am doing :-)

Just a couple more bits needed before I have a rolling chassis and the engine / tranny in place. I am looking forward to this so I can free up some of the shop space for other vehicles before the snow flies!

I'll follow this intro up with some notes about the particulars of my build, and probably more than my share of requests for advice

Happy Holidays to you all!

[LateApex]

Perhaps I should also mention the things that are not in my build (reading between the lines, if you will ...)

No heater / AC
No side windows

Years of riding motorcycles has conditioned me to the environment, and living in Colorado implies maybe more than my share of fair day rides :-)

[Skuzzy]

I think we have all been jumping around in the build manual. Keeps it exciting.

I am envious of those who have enough fair weather days to enjoy a ride without A/C. When a good portion of your good weather is dominated by 100F+ temperatures (with 65%+ humidity), A/C is a must. Even when I rode motorcycles it was hard. Either give in to wind burn, or put on the long sleeves and sweat like there is no tomorrow. Either way you get really dehydrated.

[LateApex]

A side effect of waiting for parts is requirements creep. That is, items I have added to the build. Here are a few:

Dead Pedal Kit
Bimat and Quadmat passenger compartment insulation
Zero Clearance firewall insulation
External Battery Posts
Wilwood balance bar adjuster
Russ Thompson's turn signal stalk
Period Correct front license plate holder
Alpine touch screen deck with Polk speakers fore and aft
Peter Brock's coupe side mirrors
Leather and 1/8" high density foam for the dash
In-tank fuel pump for the EFI

More in this category to come I am sure - Haha

[LateApex]

I think we have all been jumping around in the build manual. Keeps it exciting.

I am envious of those who have enough fair weather days to enjoy a ride without A/C. When a good portion of your good weather is dominated by 100F+ temperatures (with 65%+ humidity), A/C is a must. Even when I rode motorcycles it was hard. Either give in to wind burn, or put on the long sleeves and sweat like there is no tomorrow. Either way you get really dehydrated.

We have more of our share of sunny days. One reason for the coupe is to keep the sun off my balding pate - Hah.

On the flip side, I do not intend to put snow tires on the coupe :-)

[cgundermann]

Look forward to following along.

Chris

[Jacob McCrea]

You should be mostly fine in Colorado with no heat, A/C or side windows. I have about 100 miles in 35-degree weather so far and haven't felt like windows or heat are absolutely necessary. You'll get tired of other aspects of the car before you get tired of the cool breeze from no windows, and there's plenty of heat coming off the engine to keep your legs warm at low temps. We'll see about A/C when it hits 90 degrees!

[LateApex]

You should be mostly fine in Colorado with no heat, A/C or side windows. I have about 100 miles in 35-degree weather so far and haven't felt like windows or heat are absolutely necessary. You'll get tired of other aspects of the car before you get tired of the cool breeze from no windows, and there's plenty of heat coming off the engine to keep your legs warm at low temps. We'll see about A/C when it hits 90 degrees!

Thinking hard right now about how to ventilate foot boxes, perhaps making hood scoops functional, and in general at ventilation through the cabin. Considering venting through the duck tail as was done in the originals.

Thx for the feedback!

[LateApex]

You should be mostly fine in Colorado with no heat, A/C or side windows. I have about 100 miles in 35-degree weather so far and haven't felt like windows or heat are absolutely necessary. You'll get tired of other aspects of the car before you get tired of the cool breeze from no windows, and there's plenty of heat coming off the engine to keep your legs warm at low temps. We'll see about A/C when it hits 90 degrees!

I am curious about the other aspects of the car you find tiring ...

[Jacob McCrea]

I have a Gen 2 Type 65, which I just got on the road. The car is a lot of fun but it's pretty obnoxious and clunky to drive in some respects, especially in traffic and urban areas:

The exhaust - what little there is - seems pointed at your ears and earplugs are necessary if you value your hearing.
I added a fair amount of soundproofing (Eastwood's self-adhesive product) but apparently not enough, and I should have done the inside of the transmission tunnel, and under the trunk floor. I don't think you could overdo it in terms of soundproofing efforts if you want to drive any real distances. The vibrations of the aluminum panels with no soundproofing gets old. There's a little vibration from the seat being solidly mounted to the floor and roll cage, especially with a lumpy idle in a 302 Windsor. You don't forget that it's first and foremost a race car, and one based on +50-year-old technology.
With the shoulder harnesses tight, turning your upper body to look back and out the hatch glass to see is impossible.
The fuel pump in the tank is loud, and so is the coil or something else in the ignition system, the end result of which is it sounds like two tiny turbine engines front and back, in addition to the exhaust.
I have really stiff suspension (750lb springs up front, 450lb in the back) and 19" wheels. It turns like a cat on carpet but you do feel every bump!
On my car the early-style IRS is solidly bolted to the frame and the seat may as well be solidly bolted to the differential because you hear and feel about everything it does.

Overall it is a massive amount of fun and it'll give you a grin from ear to ear, but many aspects of the machine - or at least mine - are obnoxious. I suppose I could compare it to the sport bikes I have long ridden, but honestly the best comparison is the Enstrom 280C I fly: loud, very sensitive controls, you smell the fuel and exhaust, you feel the machine as much as you see what it's doing, it commands your full attention and will kill you if you aren't giving it that attention, but still more fun than anyone should be allowed to have. You'll love it.

[LateApex]

I have a Gen 2 Type 65, which I just got on the road. The car is a lot of fun but it's pretty obnoxious and clunky to drive in some respects, especially in traffic and urban areas:

The exhaust - what little there is - seems pointed at your ears and earplugs are necessary if you value your hearing.
I added a fair amount of soundproofing (Eastwood's self-adhesive product) but apparently not enough, and I should have done the inside of the transmission tunnel, and under the trunk floor. I don't think you could overdo it in terms of soundproofing efforts if you want to drive any real distances. The vibrations of the aluminum panels with no soundproofing gets old. There's a little vibration from the seat being solidly mounted to the floor and roll cage, especially with a lumpy idle in a 302 Windsor. You don't forget that it's first and foremost a race car, and one based on +50-year-old technology.
With the shoulder harnesses tight, turning your upper body to look back and out the hatch glass to see is impossible.
The fuel pump in the tank is loud, and so is the coil or something else in the ignition system, the end result of which is it sounds like two tiny turbine engines front and back, in addition to the exhaust.
I have really stiff suspension (750lb springs up front, 450lb in the back) and 19" wheels. It turns like a cat on carpet but you do feel every bump!
On my car the early-style IRS is solidly bolted to the frame and the seat may as well be solidly bolted to the differential because you hear and feel about everything it does.

Overall it is a massive amount of fun and it'll give you a grin from ear to ear, but many aspects of the machine - or at least mine - are obnoxious. I suppose I could compare it to the sport bikes I have long ridden, but honestly the best comparison is the Enstrom 280C I fly: loud, very sensitive controls, you smell the fuel and exhaust, you feel the machine as much as you see what it's doing, it commands your full attention and will kill you if you aren't giving it that attention, but still more fun than anyone should be allowed to have. You'll love it.

Thank you Jacob. I appreciate your thoughts!

I am applying Bimat, Quadmat and Zero Clearance heat and sound insulation on all cabins surfaces in various ways. The there is the carpeting ... I want the vehicle acoustically "damp", and the firewall / foot boxes / tranny tunnel are getting that extra layer of reflective heat protection.

I'll look at pipes / baffles after I have woken up the neighborhood. And a gross of ear plugs are on my Christmas wish list :-)

[LateApex]

I have a Gen 2 Type 65, which I just got on the road. The car is a lot of fun but it's pretty obnoxious and clunky to drive in some respects, especially in traffic and urban areas:

The exhaust - what little there is - seems pointed at your ears and earplugs are necessary if you value your hearing.
I added a fair amount of soundproofing (Eastwood's self-adhesive product) but apparently not enough, and I should have done the inside of the transmission tunnel, and under the trunk floor. I don't think you could overdo it in terms of soundproofing efforts if you want to drive any real distances. The vibrations of the aluminum panels with no soundproofing gets old. There's a little vibration from the seat being solidly mounted to the floor and roll cage, especially with a lumpy idle in a 302 Windsor. You don't forget that it's first and foremost a race car, and one based on +50-year-old technology.
With the shoulder harnesses tight, turning your upper body to look back and out the hatch glass to see is impossible.
The fuel pump in the tank is loud, and so is the coil or something else in the ignition system, the end result of which is it sounds like two tiny turbine engines front and back, in addition to the exhaust.
I have really stiff suspension (750lb springs up front, 450lb in the back) and 19" wheels. It turns like a cat on carpet but you do feel every bump!
On my car the early-style IRS is solidly bolted to the frame and the seat may as well be solidly bolted to the differential because you hear and feel about everything it does.

Overall it is a massive amount of fun and it'll give you a grin from ear to ear, but many aspects of the machine - or at least mine - are obnoxious. I suppose I could compare it to the sport bikes I have long ridden, but honestly the best comparison is the Enstrom 280C I fly: loud, very sensitive controls, you smell the fuel and exhaust, you feel the machine as much as you see what it's doing, it commands your full attention and will kill you if you aren't giving it that attention, but still more fun than anyone should be allowed to have. You'll love it.

Jacob, I want to ask you about your choice of springs. Why the 750 / 450 combination? My sense has been that choice of shocks (and various tweaking there) has had perhaps more significant impact on vehicle ride and handling. I am wondering what drove you to those spring weights. Are you also running sway bars, for example?

[LateApex]

Been a mish-mash of activity lately, mostly focused on hard lines, wiring and dash design and fabrication. Here is shot of Russ Thompson's turn signal stalk:

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One thing I found interesting is how straightforward it is to re-purpose the Hot Rod column harness to the hook up the various bits needed for this turn signal stalk.

[LateApex]

Here is a view of my gauge panel. Did a carbon fiber layup over the aluminum sheet ...

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[LateApex]

Footbox is almost done - waiting on a gas pedal :-)

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[LateApex]

Couldn't resist a little dry fitting. Waiting on engine and tranny mounts ...

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[Jacob McCrea]

"Jacob, I want to ask you about your choice of springs. Why the 750 / 450 combination? My sense has been that choice of shocks (and various tweaking there) has had perhaps more significant impact on vehicle ride and handling. I am wondering what drove you to those spring weights. Are you also running sway bars, for example?"

Sorry for the slow response; much going on these days. I picked components and otherwise built the car to be a track car first, everything else second. The kit came with 500lb springs up front and 750lb springs in the back (it has the T-Bird IRS system, with much modification). What I recall is that Karen S. and others who were racing the Gen. 1 and 2 coupes had installed stiffer springs up front (maybe 750lb, you'd have to dig back through some old build threads to check). So, I just installed the rear springs in the front.

Out back, the shock location was moved from inboard of the frame rails to outboard; this mod used the same shocks as the 3-link system. I forget who said that 450lb springs in the back was a good fit with the 750s up front, but that's what I heard and that's what I did. I will say that when I had it aligned and corner-weighted by Mark D. in Hershey this year, he suggested changing to 350lb springs in the back if I got tired of the stiff ride.

The spring rates feel balanced but I have so little experience with the car, and with race cars generally, that I wouldn't put much faith in my opinion. There is a Nascar-style sway bar in the front (a 1' hollow Schroeder if I recall correctly) with custom mounts and hand-bent arms (bent with heat and a press, of course!). No sway bar in the rear and no idea if it needs one for the track. It sure doesn't need one for the road.

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[LateApex]

Monday ... back to the shop!

Working on the "behind the gauge panel" wiring for the RT turn signal stalk. I am making use of these terminal blocks: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CLY5N9T?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details. The fifth one will be my 12V buss. I have wired in the hot rod harness. Still have to connect up a couple of relays. But the idea is that with a gauge panel secured by Riv Nuts, I can easily access this circuitry. Let's see, what else is maybe interesting in this picture ....

You will see a hole where my Alpine deck will sit and one cutout for a forward speaker. I know. You are asking, "What the heck are you doing installing a sound system? Aren't you going to have enough already?" Let's say "Rock and Roll" :-)

There is also the spot where I have installed the Wilwood balance bar adjustment knob - bright blue - hard to miss in this shot.

I trimmed down the RT mounting tube by ~ 1/2" to get the hub closer to the dash. This is not yet pressed flush, but when all is done, I think all the clearances will be correct.

You may also note I am waiting for a gas pedal to call the foot box "complete"

Tranny tunnel next ...

Hope you all had a great Christmas holiday, and didn't spend all of it in your shop ;-)

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[B Campbell]

I see your going to add the Wilwood remote balance bar adjuster. what side of the balance bar are you thinking of connecting the adjustment cable? I`m mocking mine up now and if I connect to the Drivers side of the bar it looks like it will interfere with the top of the clutch pedal. the Engine bay side seems to be ok but the cable housing looks like it may contact a frame bracket on that side during the pedal travel.

[MSumners]

I used this on the roadster, not sure about the coupe but may work

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159311&d=1640657058


I see your going to add the Wilwood remote balance bar adjuster. what side of the balance bar are you thinking of connecting the adjustment cable? I`m mocking mine up now and if I connect to the Drivers side of the bar it looks like it will interfere with the top of the clutch pedal. the Engine bay side seems to be ok but the cable housing looks like it may contact a frame bracket on that side during the pedal travel.

[LateApex]

I see your going to add the Wilwood remote balance bar adjuster. what side of the balance bar are you thinking of connecting the adjustment cable? I`m mocking mine up now and if I connect to the Drivers side of the bar it looks like it will interfere with the top of the clutch pedal. the Engine bay side seems to be ok but the cable housing looks like it may contact a frame bracket on that side during the pedal travel.

I have it on the left side. I am lifting it just a smidgen (via zip tie). I do not believe there will be any interference

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[Rian_Colorado]

Hey Bob - great thread so far! What part of Colorado are you in?

Rian (In Longmont)

[LateApex]

Hey Bob - great thread so far! What part of Colorado are you in?

Rian (In Longmont)

Hi Rian - I am in Niwot. Drop me a note anytime you need an extra hand :-)

[LateApex]

First box of the New Year - Yay!

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A little trial and error: The Moser 8.8" has a 2.5 offset (i.e.: flip the flange bracket ...) FWIW

[Rian_Colorado]

Nice that we're like 10 minutes from one another - lol
Damnit, I was SURE I was gonna have the only Daytona in Boulder county too!
Jealous that you got your brakes - still waiting for mine (and the Koni's.... and.... like.... EVERYTHING else.)
Let me know if you wanna grab lunch or a beer sometime.
R

[JohnMac]

Thinking hard right now about how to ventilate foot boxes, perhaps making hood scoops functional, and in general at ventilation through the cabin. Considering venting through the duck tail as was done in the originals.

Thx for the feedback!
We used the big hood scoop and cut a 3” hole in the left side of the hood, cut another matching 3” hole in the top of foot box and placed a foam covered flange on the tube. Haven’t driven yet but also made a blank to cover flange when not needed. The original has a similar setup with the tube into the left side of the foot box.

[LateApex]

We used the big hood scoop and cut a 3” hole in the left side of the hood, cut another matching 3” hole in the top of foot box and placed a foam covered flange on the tube. Haven’t driven yet but also made a blank to cover flange when not needed. The original has a similar setup with the tube into the left side of the foot box.

Hi John - What happens when it rains? Are you scooping water off the hood into the foot box? Do you have a gate valve or some such to close the vent when not needed?

[LateApex]

So ... Brake line puzzle solved. It had my brow knitted.

Front brake hard lines are reasonably easy to locate and pin down. Rear brake lines are a bit trickier.

Background: I am using the kit-provided 3/16" Edelmann hard lines. Rear brakes are Wilwood variety on a Moser 3-link rear end.

I took the rear brake line from the pedal box to the top corner of the DS foot box upper sheet metal, through to the tranny tunnel and along the upper DS tunnel and then DOWN to the 1.5" frame cross-member below and in front of the snout of the differential, where I placed the "T. There is not a whole lot of slack in the provided hard lines from the "T" (8" on the DS, 20" on the PS), so care must be taken to locate the braided line mounts. These I placed on the "inside" of the 1.5" frame members that extend from the top of the shocks to the tranny tunnel. This all "just" fits.

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As an aside, the Wilwood flex lines come with a straight fitting at one end and a 90 degree fitting at the other. You can see that I placed the 90 degree fitting at the braided line mount. I believe this gives a bit more slack in the flexible lines to accommodate suspension travel.

A couple of brake line clamps to install, tightening of AN fittings, and plumbing is done :-)


Another little bit learned along the way ....

Measure brake caliper mounting spacers with a micrometer. They are not the width specified in the Wilwood documentation (both front and rear), and in my case, they are not consistent. This nit aside, I am really quite impressed with the Wilwood kit. Now, if I could get my front axle nuts (and a few other POL items), without going to NAPA to spend $20 on a readily available Dorman part, I could actually call brake installation "done". Bleeding aside :-)

[JohnMac]

Hi John - What happens when it rains? Are you scooping water off the hood into the foot box? Do you have a gate valve or some such to close the vent when not needed?
RAIN… we’re not planning on driving it in the rain but I have done it on a motorcycle down in the Blueridge area of NC. It’s not fun but if you’re dressed properly it’s not bad. As for the coupe, George, the co-conspritor and master fabricator, cut a piece of aluminum to fit over the foot box tube to keep mice, squirrels and chipmunks from nesting… btw, his cat brought a chipmunk into his house and it’s now found a home behind the refrigerator! The cat’s given up on trying to catch him or her!

[LateApex]

Haha!

I've spent a fair amount of time on bikes in all sorts of weather too. I had posted a query about weep holes for the foot boxes - still haven't settled on that design point. Between the open window design, the rear side window "scoops", and any foot box vents, I figure that there may be cases (like Le Man), where the coupe can fill to the door sills :-)

Russ Thompson had a foot box vent kit for the Gen 1 Coupe. If I recall our conversation correctly, in his personal design, he scooped air into a box (or reservoir) through a gate valve, which was then routed to the foot box. This approach would allow for water to be captured and drained (not into the foot box ...)

On this general topic, I am curious about any existing designs that use the FFR optional scoops, with some gate valve to route air to defrost the windshield (through the existing slots on the top of the dash) ...

Thx for your thoughts JohnMac!

By the way, this is an example of how a creative mind can run amok while waiting for POL parts to arrive :-)

[LateApex]

On a different topic, I am spending some time finalizing my dash design. I have settled on gauge location, and where to install an Alpine deck and a few bits, like 12V socket and USB port. Now it is to upholstery.

I have laid up a carbon fiber surface for the gauge panel proper. The rest of the dash, including end caps, I intend to upholster with a leather (that matches the FFR leather seats), with a 1/8" foam backing for an appropriate "feel". I know no more about car upholstery than building a Type 65, but am wading into it anyway.

My question relates to adhesives you all may have used. Aluminum dash to foam layer to leather, with all the appropriate holes and angles and other puzzle bits. What adhesive are you using? A lot of folks lean to Barge's cement for anything related to leather. It is pretty toxic **** (pls pardon the tech vernacular ..) though, and I am leaning to (and testing) Gorilla Glue Heavy Duty Spray Adhesive. Any experience with this product, or opinions on best products to use?

Thx muchly!

[edwardb]

DAP Weldwood Landau Top & Trim HHR Contact Adhesive is pretty much top of the food chain for automotive interiors. Vinyl, leather, whatever. It's what the pros use. All the automotive shows on TV where you see them spraying adhesive for interior work, 99.9% chance that's what they're using. While it is made for spraying, it's a bear to clean up and overspray is messy. So for small one-off jobs like ours, I've brushed it on for my builds with good results. Not available in retail. But available multiple places on-line. I've heard of some asking for and receiving a small quantity from their local automotive trim shop. They buy it by the drum. One caution: Extremely high solvent smell. Use in a well ventilated area and not around flames or pilot lights.

[LateApex]

What is the conventional wisdom concerning limiting rear end travel?


Under what use is this a practical design consideration?
Is the main intent to limit stress on the shock, i.e.: to limit suspension travel to less than the shock stroke?
Is a swaged cable a typical design?
For the coupe, what are the recommended attachment points for the limiter?

Thanx muchly!

[edwardb]

What is the conventional wisdom concerning limiting rear end travel?


Under what use is this a practical design consideration?
Is the main intent to limit stress on the shock, i.e.: to limit suspension travel to less than the shock stroke?
Is a swaged cable a typical design?
For the coupe, what are the recommended attachment points for the limiter?

Thanx muchly!

You shouldn't need cable limiters or whatever on your 3-link. The coilovers get the job done. Once you get the pinion angle set, make sure at full suspension hang the driveshaft doesn't hit anything and turns freely. Should be good to go.

[LateApex]

How does one eat an elephant? Of course, one bite at a time ...

Here is the requisite progress photo ....

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[LateApex]

To the right of Alpine deck, I will be mounting USB and 12V access points, as well as a passenger grab handle. Would love to find a "Daytona" chrome emblazon for the dash space in front of the PS seat5. No luck so far ...

The dash will be leather to match the seats. I have not settled on the visor design yet ...

[LateApex]

Another question for this group (if I may ...) In my previous photo, you can see the backside of a 12V cutoff switch. And also a mess of wiring related to the Holley Terminator-X I have mounted in the roof of the PS foot box. I am considering providing 12V power for the EFI control via the switched side of the 12V cutoff switch. This seems logical as this would assure cutoff to power for the fuel pump, which in an "emergency", is maybe the most important function a cutoff might provide.

However, if one is using a cutoff key as part of an anti-theft scheme, such an approach I think means that the Term-X might go through a re-learn process. Am I close? There are a few other threads I have spotted that discuss Terminator-X parasitic losses. I have not measured / do not know if this is a valid concern? Can the cutoff help in maintaining the battery?

Thanx for any insights !!

[GT_Rich]

I am also doing a TermX install and recently researched this exact topic on the Holley forum. Most guys install the safety cutoff switch in the low amperage "trigger" line that goes to the ignition switch. This will kill both fuel pump and spark instantly. While technically not by the books for some sanctioning bodies, it's my current plan.

[LateApex]

Thank you!

[LateApex]

What happens under the dash, stays under the dash ...

Friday afternoon, rapidly approaching Happy Hour. I think I'll call it a wrap for the week. Yeah ... right !!

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[LateApex]

Speaking of the dash, IMO one of the more interesting and maybe challenging build sequences to mull over is upholstery and dash assembly.

Background: I am upholstering the dash in a leather similar in grain and feel to the roadster seats. I am also adding a bit of foam (either 1/16" or 1/8", depending on where it is being applied) for a bit of "feel".

The stock dash is not trivial, in that there is a separate gauge panel, end caps and gauge visor. Add to this the option that one may wish to have fasteners either revealed or hidden (or some combination) under the upholstery, and sequence gets a little complicated.

Let's look at the visor for example. One is not going to stretch a piece of leather over the dash and also accommodate the visor in that same piece. The visor likely needs to be upholstered separately and then attached almost last in the dash build sequence. This implies that the fasteners to attach the visor are probably not cheesy rivets, rather maybe some nice button head machine screws. This implies appropriate use of rivnuts. Perhaps the same attachment scheme that one might use for the gauge panel. (Note: I decided early on to make the gauge panel easy to remove to gain access to the wiring nest behind the dash - this implies the gauge panel is "outside" the main dash, and attached with 8-32 machine screws.) The visor sheet metal is maybe 0.040" (or whatever), and if I am going to use foam as a leather backer, this suggests where I might use 1/16" versus 1/18" foam at certain places for a nice transition between top or face of dash and top or face of visor, for example.

The end caps are maybe easiest to think about. They can be done first, both foam and leather, without any dependencies, except as may be related to accounting for the leather thickness for proper bending of the tab that attaches to the cross rail. These layers can be bonded with a spray contact adhesive.

Independently, the dash proper can be done. Spray contact adhesive can be used for the foam layer, noting the cutout areas for where the visor might attach (no foam here). And then the dash is attached to the frame and firewall using rivets and/or machine screws where appropriate. And then I need to lay down the leather. This sequence is my doing, as I want a smooth top of dash, without fasteners. Using spray contact adhesive at this point will be a mess, so a brush is used. Wrapping and clamping the leather is a bit of a pain in the A$$ with the dash already installed (and wired, and ...)

Well, it IS Friday, and I am about to call it wrap (no pun intended) for the weekend (as the snow and skiing is first class ATM)

I am using all available flat surfaces for assembly these days. Here is one of the aforementioned dash end caps in the middle of being upholstered. Note it is resting on a charcoal gas tank vent filter of Edward B's design. As well as the gauge panel being wired for ground and power (bullet connectors in the works for easy removal of the panel as suggested). Speakers in the background, despite my comments elsewhere about managing dB :-) Multi-taskers R' Us

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[LateApex]

Another Friday, another brief update.

Dash upholstery and assembly complete !

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Light switch (left of tach) and ignition switch not shown - they are already wired into the harness.

Ready to mount and connect up the dash harness just as soon as I can wrap up thermal and noise insulation on the forward upper tranny tunnel panels. Yay!

All gauge panel connections are bullet connectors. As you may see, the gauge panel is attached to the dash with 10-24 Phillips head machine screws with associated Riv-nuts so that it may be easily removed to gain access to the zoo between dash and firewall.

As mentioned previously, the gauge panel is a carbon fiber layup over the kit gauge panel. The dash is a leather hide that actually has very similar pebble to the FFR leather seats. I've underlain the leather with 1/8" closed cell foam (except where I've used 1/16" near the visor to accommodate the flange stackup) for a nicer "hand" or dash feel.

Gotta go pour a beer now, to knock off the buzz from inhaling too much contact cement :-) This part of the build was kinda fun and a new experience for me :-)

Now, if I can just find a chrome "Daytona" emblazon, or a passenger grab handle (more practical ;-) for the PS dash face ...

[Skuzzy]

Looks nice!

[WIS89]

Bob-

The dash looks terrific; I love the white gauge faces!

You put a lot of thought into how to make the dash come together, and I think it shows, nicely done!

I also have to comment that you are extremely brave. I noticed that you have the rear glass laying along the wall in your garage. You see, if I were to do that, I would absolutely somehow end up destroying that piece by some errant flying piece of something! It is just how things go in my garage... You are clearly far more confident than I.

Keep up the good work, she is coming together nicely!

Regards,

Steve

[LateApex]

Bob-

The dash looks terrific; I love the white gauge faces!

You put a lot of thought into how to make the dash come together, and I think it shows, nicely done!

I also have to comment that you are extremely brave. I noticed that you have the rear glass laying along the wall in your garage. You see, if I were to do that, I would absolutely somehow end up destroying that piece by some errant flying piece of something! It is just how things go in my garage... You are clearly far more confident than I.

Keep up the good work, she is coming together nicely!

Regards,

Steve

Hi Steve. My glass (front and back) is in my office, so hopefully protected from FOD. With Winter in progress, I am doing a lot of wiring (and fitting leather) indoors these days :-) Another way of saying I am spreading out - Ha!

[LateApex]

Okay, so dash installed today. Still some wiring bits to sew up, but that is almost done, which is a major milestone ...

162813

[LateApex]

Gauge panel wrapped up ....

163010

A couple of switches (running lights, hazard, wipers) to hook up, as well as the 12V buss bar, cut-off switch and the Terminator-X, and wiring inside the firewall is done ... :-)

[LateApex]

Let's see. Improvise in the face of missing key bits ...

163300

I need to move things around a bit in my shop, so have been hankering (is that REALLY a word?) to get off the jack stands in place for the past five months. As you can see, I don't have wheels on the front end (due to POL items such as shocks and axle nuts), but it is nice to get the Beast down to ground level. I borrowed my son's late model Mustang Summer wheels / tires for the rear - almost the same wheel diameter.

This little drill this afternoon has been actually quite nice. I have not appreciated how low and mean this whole car posture is until now. It gives me a different perspective on what I am building.

I am waiting on various bits that are part of the prescribed build sequence, and am plodding ahead in any case. I am finding that this is focusing me to think a little more critically about building my kit. Not quite "paint-by-numbers", if you will.

Oh well. Plumbing done, wiring almost done, just a few bits left before suspension is done, firewall complete. Engine and EFI ready for install. Bodywork looms. I am sure I have forgotten something - Haha

[LateApex]

POL and MIK List parts came in this week. At least most outstanding items. Still need wheels and tires and a few other bits. But have no good excuse for not being fully engaged at the moment.

FWIW, my kit was completed on August 7. Almost 7 months to this point. Items such as engine mounts and suspension items and certain body parts have been major blockers over the past months. Into hyper drive now ;-)

Thanx muchly to the FFR team for delivering in what has been a tough time for all!

[LateApex]

How the time flies :-)

With maybe a couple of minor exceptions, POL and MIK list items have been received or are en-route. The biggie, being tires and wheels are due Monday. My To-do list is long, but every day, several items are being knocked down.

If wishes were fishes, I'd wish for a hoist. Instead, I roll around under the car, wishing for better light, and pick up every bit of aluminum fleck that my broom has missed, which is soon to be deposited on office chairs, car seats and carpet everywhere. I imagine spotting some shiny bit a decade from now, and laughing at what a great little project this was.

Hands are taking a beating:

164431

Working up inside a tranny tunnel, or with sharpies everywhere has me a blood donor. Copper-based anti-seize will take a day or two to clean up. All the hand washing has me re-thinking use of skin moisturizers. My gal on the other hand loves these working man's hands.

Things are coming together in any case:

164432

Finishing up wiring the motor and EFI. Target first start and go kart in two weeks. Likely ahead of schedule. Gotta install seats, bleed hydraulics, get the cooling system installed and any of a number of other bits shortly :-)

FWIW ... Bob

[LateApex]

I may have commented on this earlier on a separate thread - my apologies for any repeat material.

This is all about wiring. I installed RT's stalk mounted turn signal. That process actually went pretty well. The more complex bit is the wiring, following in some manner the installation notes that RT provides. I have decided that I really want to document changes to the Ron Francis harness that I have made, if anything just to compensate for my consistent short term memory loss (Hah!), or better put, to document wiring for future maintenance.

There are things that one can do when integrating the turn signal stalk, like for example, hijacking the Hotrod Column connection wires - I mean, the wires are right there! I think that having the extra relay bits and wiring changes documented will be useful for me in the future, and maybe to others. I am in process of editing the Ron Francis Harness schematic. If others are interested in that edited version, please let me know.

Part 2 of this is changes I am making to the Holley Terminator-X "output / P1B" harness. The short story is that I am integrating Jim Inglese's Weber-style EFI system, and due to indefinite back-order times, I chose to use a Holley 550-937F ("F" meaning Foxbody) version of the Terminator X, instead of the generic 550-937. The 937F has a longer harness to accommodate the typical installation of the ECU under the passenger side seat, which is a minor PIA, but otherwise it appears to be a useful alternative, in these times of extended back-order. "Almost" is the key word here. I find myself now modifying the P1B harness to accommodate a four wire IAC motor, instead of the two-wire that was standard in the Foxbody time frame. I can bore you with harness editing details if you like, and I can also use this same wiring diagram software to share those changes to this group.

FWIW

[LateApex]

Things are starting to come together:

One hose to my overflow tank, and coolant plumbing is done.
Hydraulics done.
Swapping in a Dual Sync distributor this week. Else Engine Bay wiring / ECU ..., etc., done.
Ride height and first pass at alignment done.

Tracking to go-cart this time next week. Looking forward to waking up the neighbors ;-)

165787

[Rian_Colorado]

I'm expecting a phone call this week......lol It's looking great!

[LateApex]

I'm expecting a phone call this week......lol It's looking great!

First start today :-)

https://youtu.be/tJKR094ZEbk

[LateApex]

First Go-Kart today :-)

Everything sounds tight ...


https://youtu.be/WqWeU3MIHlY

Father and son build. What can we teach? What are we learning through this process?

A lot of fine tuning left. Even more work on the body. And a few mods in the works.

I am going to say thanks to this forum for the sanity checks and all the great ideas and for the support. What a pit crew :-)

[65BYBYE]

Progress and build looks great. Remember you get to make it the way you want which will make it that much better!

[LateApex]

Yikes - it has been almost 6 weeks since my last post on this thread. I have been heads-down, although also occasionally posting on other more specific threads.

"Heads Down" means I received the last of my POL / MIK items last month, I am putting in 4-6 hours a day, primer is being shot on the body tomorrow, and I am finishing interior carpeting and sound / heat insulation, using up extra wiring harness clips, and starting to make my final checklist.

"Final" means a very long but tractable list of things to do. Ranging from leak checks to brake bias to wiring rear speakers to installing lights and lenses, to ... My measure of progress is the number of boxes of bits I have yet to install. I am down to 2. Or maybe 3. The third is the box of fasteners, ranging from rivets to wiring clips to zip-ties to nuts and bolts I haven't figured out a home for. The second is soft items like bulb trim and wiring sleeves. The first is lights, mirrors and other hard bits that will be installed when the body is back and on the chassis. And then there is a stack of AL sheet metal, at least what I have not already affixed, and bits of carpet.

There was a point where I did not have a good idea when this little project would be done. A lot of that was aggravated by supply chain issues, which are ... aggravating. Now, things are smoking because they are moving so fast. I have actually reviewed (again) state titling requirements and procedures.

Maybe 30 days out?

I'll offer that this whole process is quite interesting. At least for a first time builder like myself. The more senior members of this esteemed forum take all this in stride, or maybe have forgotten the trials and tribulations of their first build. Hats of to them in any case, if only for all the support and advice they have provided me and others.

Best ...

p.s: will post a couple of photos of the finished build shortly

[LateApex]

Update: Primer is on the body. This is code for "I better get the rest of the chassis ready"

Past couple of days have been trimming and installing remaining (pre-body install) sheet metal and heat/sound dampening. Note every interior panel has Bimat, Quadmat or Cool It layers under carpet.

Today is carpet. THAT is a bit of a project, all 28 pieces of it, especially if one installs various layers of aforementioned dampening ;-)

A good pair of shears is a nice toolbox item at this point

169472

Measure twice, glue once is my mantra today. This photo has no glue yet.

I haven't yet decided what to do with carpeting at the rear roll bar meets frame cross member just aft of the tunnel. It is a bit of a mess at that eyeglass shaped union of square and round tubes. Maybe a couple of chrome escutcheons will work ;-)

Monday C.O.B will see this done :-)

[LateApex]

169498

Carpet done. It is amazing how fast time flies when sniffing 3M Super 77 fumes. Yikes!

Seats and belts tomorrow. And then waiting for my paint shop and time to tie off a few little bits on the To-Do list.

As you may be planning carpet at some point, there is a lot of dry fitting to do, and installing for example in the foot boxes with a spray adhesive is ... um ... challenging. But then, I am easily challenged :-)

You can have any interior you want, as long as it is black (and gray and chrome and CF)

[Rian_Colorado]

looks great Bob!!

[LateApex]

Getting down on some of the details ...

The side pipes are loud (as many have commented on in various threads)

This morning I decided to cut off the side pipe turn outs - there is a gut check for you. It is the only way to get access to the internals of the dual side pipes. Do this with the right equipment. SS is a PITA.

Then I added Car Chemistry 3-disk inserts, and clamped the turn outs back on with Borla Stainless Steel Accuseal Clamps. Here is a first pass look at how this looks all buckled back together:

170060

When I install the body (after paint) next week, I will twiddle the clamps so the bolts are minimally invasive. I will also drill the thin wall SS to anchor the inserts with 3/16" SS rivets. In part, this is to prevent losing those nice turn outs to vibration. In second part, this is to keep the inserts from vibrating. They are approximately in the middle of the tail section atm, and really won't go anywhere, but I want to use them to reinforce the joint.

A secondary benefit of whacking the turn-outs off is that I can adjust the angle of the output, perhaps angling down a tad to the Macadam.

Oh yes! So I fired the beasty up (like within 5 minutes of securing the side pipes). I would estimate 10-12dB reduction in sound at idle, and the note still reflects how angry the motor is.

Thought to share this, as there are numerous threads that discuss decibels. The look of the clamps is clean - they require a bit of rouge and polishing.

When I did the tour of the neighborhood with the naked side pipes a few months ago, I had a few folks come by and comment. One comment was "Are you going to quiet that down at all?" I hate having to sneak out of my garage, don't you? HaHa.

[LateApex]

So THAT (my first post) is what I started with. It has undergone a few changes during the build. This is maybe a more complete list FWIW

Type 65 complete kit
Powder-coated chassis
Hydraulic Clutch
Black Leather Seats
14" Leather Steering Wheel
3-link rear suspension
17" FFR wheels with MT tires
Platinum gauges
Mounts for SBF
FFR Headers and twin side pipes
Car Chemistry Exhaust inserts with Borla AccuSeal Clamps
Wilwood Balance Bar Adjuster
Remote Battery Terminals
Battery Cut-off Switch

Hydraulic clutch
FFR leather seats and carpeting
3-link rear suspension
Battery cut-off switch
Front sway bar
Nose scoops
17" Halibrand wheels
Front Sway Bar
Wilwood Brakes
Moser 8.8" rear axle
Eiback ERS helper springs

Blueprint / Marshall Engines 347
TKO-600 and mid-shift option
Eight-Stack Systems Weber-style EFI
Holley Terminator X ECU
MSD Dual-Sync Distributor, Phasing Rotor and Ignition Box
MSD 8.5mm Super-conductor Spark Plug Wires
Optima RedTop 12V Battery

Earl's Performance Line Clamps (of various sizes to suit fuel and brake lines)
Seals-it Firewall Grommets of various types and sizes
Zero Clearance, Bimat and Quadmat noiswe/heat insulation
Run Cool Louvers
NRG Steering Wheel Quick Release
Russ Thompson Turn Signal setup
Activated Charcoal Gas Tank vent filter
Alpine iLX-W650 Video Receiver with Polk Audio front and rear speakers
Longacre rear-view mirror
BRE Side mirrors
Period Correct Front License Plate Bracket
Dead Pedal

I've forgotten something I am sure :-)

[rhk118]

Looking good Bob. What's the timeline on the body (off for paint I believe is what you said)?

[LateApex]

Shooting paint color (Ford Brittany Blue - M1624) as we type, clear coat to follow, then matte black on the inside surfaces and select areas, e.g.: behind the side pipes after some masking. It's getting very close ...

[Skuzzy]

Looking forward to seeing picture of this. I have considered satin black behind the side pipes. Really would like to see what that looks like.

[LateApex]

I'll post some photos as the final assembly moves forward.

I am going with a very light texture (a.k.a. thinned) version of a Raptor like product. So, not a lot of pebble, a flat finish (flatter than a typical satin finish), and still quite "strong". This is going under the bonnet, in the wheels wells of the body proper (including certain aluminum pieces), behind side pipes and in the interior. Re: the latter, I am waiting to see how it looks before I decide on headliner. The included kit headliner material is kinda meh, and installing it (for example _after_ painting the body like my sequence) is fraught with peril.

It is funny how some of my decisions are still in pencil at this late stage in the build :-)

[LateApex]

Picked up the body from my painter this morning. Placed (or wrestled) the body into place this afternoon (many thanx to Rian_Colorado for the tag team on that wrestling match, and all the other bits he has helped with!!)

Here is a photo that shows off the body color. No fasteners applied yet. More to follow.

171410

[Skuzzy]

Looks good!

[LateApex]

Here you go Skuzzy:

171429171430

[LateApex]

The thing I might do differently is blacken the bottom of the outside wall of the foot boxes - right now it is Zero-clearance, which is great stuff, but due to how the side-pipe holes were pre-cut, that is revealed - just a nit ...

My personal opinion is that the "matte" black works pretty well with my body color choice and my black interior.

[rhk118]

Looks great Bob! Thanks for the tip on the foot boxes and blackening them - is it just the outside wall you see through the exhaust port? Seems you'd have to be pretty low to the ground to see that on the couple coupes I've seen in person...

[LateApex]

Yeah, just a nit. I am not going to alter / paint the Zero Clearance material. This would not be an issue if one cut their own header ports

[Skuzzy]

Here you go Skuzzy:

171429171430

Thanks for the pics!

I thought it would good and it does. I'll be doing mine, but using blood red for the inset color, to match the stripes.

[Rian_Colorado]

Thanks for letting me help! Great to get a chance to see how things will fit for me down the road. The paint job is fantastic, and Bob has done an amazing job with the body work before it went to paint.

You also got a LOT done after I left man! Can't wait to see the bonnet and doors on next week....

RR

[LateApex]

It has been a couple of weeks, and I thought to post a photo of recent work ...

172068

Got the bonnet back from my painter yesterday. Today was all about installing same and aligning body and bonnet. I have come to the conclusion that body parts alignment is an iterative thing, which is code for install the bonnet, get the best alignment, tweak the body placement, rinse, lather, repeat, settle on body fitment, bite the bullet, install screws or rivets into door sill frame members and front posts, and go back to tweaking bonnet hinges, AFTER install bonnet rollers, locating pins and latches. I guess we'll see whether this strategy (or lack thereof) works :-) I am pretty happy with how it looks at this point :-)

I'll post a photo of my roller design on a separate thread that has discussed this in the past.

Gotta luv Brittany Blue :-)

[rhk118]

Looking great Bob!

[LateApex]

I thought you might get a kick out of this ....

So, during the final build, I go to install things like lights and all the last minute bits post paint. I open up the packaged sub-assembly for the tail-lights - there are no mounting rings. I really should have caught this way back when. Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

I contact FFR, and they offer to send me out the parts - great! A lead time of 3 -5 weeks plus shipping time from when I first contact FFR. This has been a challenging few weeks to deal with parts issues, as FFR to my understanding has undertaken a major inventory control upgrade (this is goodness), and it is Summer time, yadda, yadda.

What to do? Hmmm. Well we are builders. This is how one fabs mounting rings for coupe taillights:

172370

I found 3" diameter, 1/16" thick aluminum discs on Amazon. These are too thick with the snap ring assembly of the lights. So I found 1/32" pipe gaskets from McMaster-Carr. Then I purchased some 10-24 PEM studs. These self-clinching studs are almost flush when mounted in sheet stock. One does have to drill exactly the right size hole in the sheet, and build an anvil or press. Ta-Da!

Lights are now installed. Maybe 2 hours of work, modulo delivery times for the parts needed.

What's left to do??

Install a windshield. Install headlight covers and rear window scoops. Mount the wiper blades. Install one more running light (Thanks Hank!). Get a 10-day temp permit. Visit with the Colorado State Patrol for a VIN. Register vehicle. Start on my run-in checklist. It has been almost exactly a year since I received my kit.

172372

There are a few trim items (such as mesh) that are not critical. I also have items for this Winter, such as striping the car. And yes, I probably have forgotten something :-)

I'll post a better photo of the finished product one of these Fall days :-)

This is a great community!! Thanks all!!

[Skuzzy]

Necessity is the momma of invention.

[rhk118]

Light just got mailed to you, hopefully 2-3 days only Bob. Looking great and nice fix on the mounting plates for the rear lights, elegant. Loving that color. Question what size rims/tires are you running? Sorry if its in your build but "laziness pays off now" (and I'm at work) :D

[LateApex]

Here are a few photos in the sunshine on a great Colorado Fall afternoon.

Note the windshield and wipers to be installed mid week, but aside from the endless list of little bits to add over the Winter months, she is done, and running well.

Best ...

[rhk118]

:cool: Are those vents on the hood functional, ie help the stack get some air? Looking great Bob!

[LateApex]

Yes. They are made by Run Cool (see hoodlouvers.com). They come powder coated, but I elected to paint them (and the rivets) body color.

I really installed them to help keep the engine bay a little cooler. I opted for this louver configuration (as opposed to one larger one on the bump) as I am running an Eight-Stack. Engine bay cooler == induction air cooler == good :-)

[LateApex]

Last post for a bit: This is the last build item before chasing a title, which starts Wednesday. The windscreen.

173088

Installing is a little tricky, as there is little clearance all around (which is good in general), and there is some difference in curvature of the glass vs the windscreen frame. Test fitting is a good idea. Be careful, as glass will nick a fresh paint job without provocation. You need a buddy for this task.

I used a 3M urethane fast cure adhesive. I installed a 1/4" x 1/4" high density foam tape around the inside of the fiberglass pinch weld to minimize any squeeze out, AND to raise the windscreen to provide a smidgen more edge clearance and better align the surfaces of glass and body.

I was joking this morning about the old quip "What's the difference between the chicken and the pig at breakfast? The chicken is involved, but the pig is committed." When you squeeze the trigger of a powered caulk gun loaded with urethane adhesive, you are committed! Haha

Hoping to get tags on this blue baby before the snow flies. Winter will have me applying stripes, futzing with bonnet and door alignment, resolving a differential fluid weep, installing mesh panels (maybe), installing door cards, and any of a number of potential items I discover during shake-out this Fall. And, waiting for Spring :-)

[LateApex]

p.s.: 1 year and 3 days from Stewart delivery ...

[LateApex]

173239

Running quite well: Have run the engine up to about 4500 rpm on the back roads. Holding a steady 185F coolant temp running up and down the hills in 85 degree weather. Handling is predictable and stiff. I am not throwing the rear end around [yet]. It is loud, but not as loud as it could be if I hadn't installed some side pipe baffles

Steering wheel not quite "square". A bit of time needed on the tie rod ends
Need to find time and place to center headlights and running lights, and then I'll affix headlight covers.
I leaned out the fuel mixture via Holley Terminator X settings. Will continue to play with this a bit until I find the sweet spot. I'd be glad to share TerminatorX global config file setting is there is interest
I'm going to drop the right front of the bonnet about 1/4"
There's mesh to install on the bonnet as well
Door cards in the forecast, and a slight trim needed on the PS door striker post
The Mosier rear end has a slight weep through the gasket. I'll live with this until mile 3,000 or some such and set a new gasket with fluid swap.
I've got the Go-Pro mounted and the Valentine radar detector installed :-)
A bit more brake bedding to do. With my initial balance bar settings, I wasn't grabbing enuf rear brake. IMO, an interesting test of brake balance (in the absence of a skid pad) is looking at how fast one erases disc brake paint ;-)
Clear bra needs be installed before I get too many more miles in ...

Waiting on VIN assignment ... [Jeopardy music track inserted here ....]

[MetalManiac]

Hey LateApex,

I'm building my Gen 3 right now with an old 302 small block. I am wondering if you can provide a photo of your throttle pedal mounting location? I'm using the pedal provided with the kit and want to see how others attached it before I start drilling holes. Seems like the cable overlaps the steering column in some positions.

Thanks!
~Chris

[MetalManiac]

Hey LateApex,

I'm building my Gen 3 right now with an old 302 small block. I am wondering if you can provide a photo of your throttle pedal mounting location? I'm using the pedal provided with the kit and want to see how others attached it before I start drilling holes. Seems like the cable overlaps the steering column in some positions.

Thanks!
~Chris

[LateApex]

This is a bit of a challenge given pedal spacing in that rather tight foot box AND a general desire to keep the radius of any bends of the throttle cable to the max.

You can assemble this pedal backwards, and the "tang" is soft, so you can bend it to help set the pedal where you want it. It took a few iterations (false starts) for me to land on my setup.

Here is a (lousy) photo inside the footbox. You can see how I set this up bass-ackwards:

173501

I sent the cable "through" the rightmost upright frame member, to the PS of the steering shaft. This frame through hole is not bad in some ways, as one has more solid interface to deal with for the cable end than sheet aluminum. Here is a photo from the DS front wheel well:

173502

Hope this helps.

PS: It's a good idea to play with this design point _before_ one starts buttoning up the sheet metal (IMO). As an aside, it is a great idea to affix any sound / heat dampening material and carpet to the foot box panels _before_ buttoning up those panels too :-)

[LateApex]

BTW, throttle action feels really smooth for me in these first couple hundred miles of break in. Pay attention to the pull angle on the cable so that with the full range of motion of the pedal / pedal tang the pull is straight and does not bind at full throttle. This informs exactly where that cable hole needs be through the frame member

[Dave Tabor]

Just sayin' that you can mount the carb backwards (if carb'd) and the cable can take a less tight radius curve(s).

Dave

Gen III Coupe #17
15,000 miles...

[LateApex]

Good point Dave.

I am outfitted with an eight-stack, and modifying the cable pull angle involves some bell tower machining that I opted out of ...

[MetalManiac]

Oh wow, thank you for these photos. This saves me probably several hours of time!
It looks like you have the cable pivot on the right side of the pedal (close to the wall) so I can try for that.

I'll be using a Holley Sniper but haven't looked at where to route it yet.
I already put the aluminum sheet on so that will complicate the sound deadening operation (doh!) but if it's impossible I'll just drill out the rivets and re-install them.

[LateApex]

Not impossible. You just have to get upside down, and crawl into the footwell, wish you had the flexibility of an octopus, and avoid sticking the butyl or contact adhesive on your forehead - Haha!

[maclonchas]

LateApex,

I have read through your thread now several times and I see many ideas that I might incorporate in my build once I recieve it in Jul 2023. I was originally set to get a roadster, but could not get away from the look of the Coupe and did not want to take on someone's unfinished GTM project. I am going with an LS3 crate engine/TKX combination, but have been struggling with the 3 link versus the IRS rear end. I know there are strong opinions on both sides and just wanted to get your impressions of the 3 link rear suspension since you now have it put together, installed and driven the car past the go kart stage.

Thanks
Bill

[maclonchas]

LateApex,

I have read through your thread now several times and I see many ideas that I might incorporate in my build once I recieve it in Jul 2023. I was originally set to get a roadster, but could not get away from the look of the Coupe and did not want to take on someone's unfinished GTM project. I am going with an LS3 crate engine/TKX combination, but have been struggling with the 3 link versus the IRS rear end. I know there are strong opinions on both sides and just wanted to get your impressions of the 3 link rear suspension since you now have it put together, installed and driven the car past the go kart stage.

Thanks
Bill

[LateApex]

I really enjoy the 3-link setup on my Coupe. As a background, I have a front sway bar as well, set at the middle of the adjustment range, and I have the kit provided coil overs (default springs). I have a 347 SBF with the TKO-600. My Coupe is perhaps a little bit lighter than average, as I decided against installing A/C, heating and side windows. Power steering by Armstrong, with related caster settings.

I am in CO, and an outing almost always involves a run up one of the many canyon roads in the area. I am still breaking in the engine (maybe 900 miles a.t.m.), so not pushing things too hard yet, maybe twice the posted on some of those roads. No sliding or drifting, but maybe .85 G's. I built this coupe to title it and drive it on the backroads, but at some point I will introduce it to open track days

The ride is stiff, it is flat in the corners, and really feels planted accelerating through a turn. Ride is likely not as comfortable as what the IRS can provide. Or as heavy, or as expensive. Installation was very straight-forward. Unfortunately, I do not have a reference point: This is the only Coupe I have driven.

Hope this helps Bill. Happy Holidays!

... Bob

p.s.: Sorry I did not see this post until just now ....

[maclonchas]

Bob,

Thanks for your opinion and description of your driving observations to date. No worries on you getting back to me. I appreciate you making the time to answers my questions.

I am all over the place on the suspension and other options. I do know I will need the AC in Florida and envy you about the hill climbs and twisties. I would have to drive a long ways to find any hills close to what you are talking about here in SW Florida.

Thanks again. I hope you and your family have happy holidays!

Bill

[LateApex]

You being in FL reminded me of an item I overlooked in my build, which is window tinting. I had taken for granted that some UV / IR shield would be layered in both windscreen and hatch glass. Not so. So much easier to apply BEFORE installing the windscreen :-) Along with some visor tinting ...

I bounced around a lot on options and features to add after my FFR purchase was placed. FWIW, and maybe a bit of a guideline, major kit parts purchased from FFR and Factory Five Engines amounted to $49580. The other big ticket item was the Eight-Stack system from Inglese which was approximately $7000. Total parts cost was ~$60000. So big ticket items amounted to 95% of parts.

Paint was another $9500. I did most of the body work

New Tools was ~$3200. Of course, we hardly need an excuse to buy tools :-)

And then there are local taxes and registration. Death and taxes are the only certainties in life :-)

What you can insure this car for is a whole discussion of itself ...

[maclonchas]

Bob,

Thanks for your perspective on the build and costs. I am vary aware of the costs of building this car are not for the faint of heart. I turned down buying a new C8 because I wanted the challenge as I go into retirement. I am building this car as a bit of therapy and learning after a bad two years of health problems for my wife and I have endured. I realize this adventure will not be an investment for future earnings, but an investment in doing something that I can be proud that I accomplished.

Thanks

Bill

[LateApex]

Tale of the Tape

P.O. placed with FFR: 3/19/2021
P.O. placed with Blueprint Engines: 3/21/2021
Blueprint Engines delivery: 7/9/2021
P.O. placed with Eight-Stack Systems: 7/20/21
FFR Kit Complete in Wareham: 8/7/2021
Eight-Stack Systems delivery: 9/10/2021
Delivery by Stewart Transport: 9/22/2021
Last MIK / POL items received: 4/17/2022
Go-kart: 5/21/2022
Body work / paint complete: 9/9/2022
Build "Complete": 9/25/2022
State Patrol road readiness inspection: 9/29/2022
60-day Temporary plates: 10/10/2022 - This is where the driving fun starts
VIN assigned: 12/12/2022
VIN Plate affixed by State Patrol: 2/2/2023
Coupe titled and registered: 2/8/2023

I thought this might help others who may be evaluating building a kit. I am no pro, nor particularly fast, and there are a few places where I might have whittled some time out of this process.

It took 13 months to receive last of POL / MIK items after placing a P.O. for a complete kit.

It took me a year and 3 days from receipt of first items from FFR to "completion" of the build. Completion begs a little definition, as there are still things on my To-Do list. It really means when I could move forward with the legal bits of putting the car on the street.

It took four and a half months to get the VIN assigned, the vehicle titled and license plates on the vehicle.

When I started this process, I was a bit naive about the calendar time needed to complete the build. I probably put 20 hours a week into the physical building of the car. I parted out the paint work (but did most of the body work), which was a good decision, as throwing paint (well) is not in my wheelhouse. There was a lot of waiting, and waiting, and building bits out of sequence, with the inefficiency that brings.

But now, I am on my way into the shop to affix the plates on the car. And it is 47F and sunny outside, which is quite balmy by Colorado Winter standards, and I'll be waking up the neighborhood a little bit with a couple of fast laps on my favorite roads :-)

p.s.: It was a very interesting last week when I went to have a VIN plate affixed under the bonnet by the CO State Patrol. I had finally gotten the call from a CSP investigator that a time slot was available. I had joked with him over the phone that my third temporary registration had expired, but as the local CSP office was maybe 3 miles down the road, I'd likely just sneak on down on an expired registration to have that VIN plate hammered home (as opposed to yet another trip to the DMV for yet another temp tag). But as I thought about this a bit a day before that CSP visit, I imagined that all of my friends would tell me that going to the state patrol barracks to get a VIN affixed with an expired registration would be one of the dummest things I could do - Hah! So I went down and got my 4th temporary tag. I know almost everyone at the local DMV by name, and we are now trading Christmas cards.

So I show up, and my investigator is there, as well as another patroller who is in training for an investigator role, and the Master Sergeant of the CO state police. They were all very impressed with the vehicle, and an all-around great group of guys. The sergeant had actually spent a fair amount of time doing VIN assignment for various vehicles at the Shelby American Collection Museum around the corner. As I goosed the car exiting the barracks parking lot, I imagine each was wondering when we might meet again ;-)

Signing off .... Have fun with your builds, and have fun on your roads!!

[Jphoenix]

Thanks for that timeline, mine is scheduled for completion at FF in July, retirement scheduled for December, so timing should work out nicely.

[wilkrod]

Hi,
Could share the changes to the wiring diagram, and software?
I am in the process of planning my build, and will be using many of the componnents you are.
Regards
Jeff

[LateApex]

Hi,
Could share the changes to the wiring diagram, and software?
I am in the process of planning my build, and will be using many of the componnents you are.
Regards
Jeff

I was considering buying a decent schematic software package to document (and share) my changes, and actually approached the Ron Francis team to ask for whatever digital form they used to create schematics in their manual, and was told that FFR drew those schematics up and they had no CAD files to share. My follow up request to FFR for the same drew no response. Without a starting point, I would have to create all this from scratch, and it is not worth my time to do, mostly as the changes are not that significant; this was more of "document one's work" idea.

PM me with any specific changes you are considering, and I'll share whatever might be useful.

There are two basic areas I made mods to, being hijacking some of the column wiring used in the '33 Hotrod for the RT column-mounted turn signal, and other bits related to integrating a Fox-body Mustang version of the TerminatorX as part of my Eight-Stack induction, which has different wiring, for example in the IAC.

I am not spending much time on the forum these days, as Spring is springing, the Coupe is done, and I have miles to go before I sleep :-)

[rhk118]

Question Bob - Roughly how much room do you have between the Weber intake and the Hood? Are you doing anything for air filtration on your Webers? I have the same intake as you and seems there are 4 options - Run them wide open, Pop-on screens, K&N-type individual mesh inserts, and ITG-type larger covers - appreciate any thoughts you have.

[LateApex]

Hi Hank -

I am running the pop on screens, or "rock guards" as some friends have called them :-) Jim Inglese provided me with contact info for stack specific filters proper. See https://bbrfilter.com/ My stacks (and I believe yours too) are Weber 48IDA. Price this time last year was $400 for a set

The biggest clearance issue is between the rear stacks and the front lip of the cowl, which is an artifact of the "mid-front engine" design by FFR - the engine mounts are located farther rearward than say for example the originals and certain other replicas. I love the resulting weight distribution but with the 8-stack, one must run the shortest stacks.

One of these days, I'll figure out a mesh filter solution

Happy New Year!

[LateApex]

So, it is "Winter'ish" which is code for refreshing some design bits.

I decided to re-layout the dash so I can see all the gauges on the dash panel:

196478

I built the gauge panel using 1/8" Carbon Fiber Sheet. This stuff is very stiff, and eliminates 95% of the dash flexing without some support to the tranny tunnel.

I found these 1/4 turn bonnet "locks":

196479

They are not a lock per se, but you need a key to open. I had tried some Triumph Spitfire era bonnet locks, but they are 1/2 turn and don't work with the inner panel of the Type '65 bonnet liner, and are just Krap. These are robust, fully stainless steel, ..., etc.

Next up is NACA ducting on the roof to help vent air "out" of the cabin, smoothing the contours of the rear quarters where the "big ears" were, and placing some louvers (that match my hood louvers) in the place where the cheesy "stock" AL grills are. This is a gut-check, as it requires throwing more paint on a finished body (and the first cut into the roof on a finished car is "puckering" :-)

The project that keeps on giving - don't mind this at all actually :-) I like being in the shop working on this car. Almost as much as I like driving her!

[burchfieldb]

Hi Bob,
Where did you find the locks? I have been looking for something like those.

Thanks,
Brent

[LateApex]

E-bay actually. Search for "Quarter Turn Cam Lock Latch. Seller is Owach Hardware. It is a solid product. I had to use a vise to bend the latch for the unique profile needed for mating with the bonnet latches, but am very pleased. These are very robust (not cheesy like the Brit offering for Spitfires, GT6 bonnets ... ). The key is a little big for hanging on a key chain ... more like for the tool bag you might have stowed behind the PS seat ...

[rhk118]

I like these a lot Bob...but the 12 year old in me wants to mess with them with the tempting "do not touch" sticker there! ;)

[LateApex]

I like these a lot Bob...but the 12 year old in me wants to mess with them with the tempting "do not touch" sticker there! ;)

Hank, I laughed when you posted this comment. So appropriate.

I actually had good intent when I stuck these where I did. Just South are the exhaust pipes. I actually got snake bit by the side pipes once; just a touch mind you, and I should know better.

[LateApex]

I just installed these NACA ducts in the roof line:

198022

Intent??? To exhaust cabin air and to create a bit of air flow through the cabin.
Why??? There is no venting of air "out" of the cabin in the design, but this is needed IMO. All other cars on the road have some venting scheme, otherwise AC and Heating systems would be anything but efficient.

I decided to visit this mod / hack after getting the car on the road (and painting it). It was a bit of a butt clench to cut these holes in a perfectly good roof - Hah!

I also decided to make the process of removing / installing my side windows a 5-minute process:

198023

198024

198025

What would we do without rivnuts ?

Hope you are all enjoying Spring too. Enough car twiddling for a bit :-)

[JTG]

I just installed these NACA ducts in the roof line:

198022

Intent??? To exhaust cabin air and to create a bit of air flow through the cabin.
Why??? There is no venting of air "out" of the cabin in the design, but this is needed IMO. All other cars on the road have some venting scheme, otherwise AC and Heating systems would be anything but efficient.

I decided to visit this mod / hack after getting the car on the road (and painting it). It was a bit of a butt clench to cut these holes in a perfectly good roof - Hah!


I've been following your new thread about "Damping Cabin Noise" and was reminded of your NACA vents in the roof. What are your impressions? Did this help?