Carbon dash tools?

[zackmd1]

Did a quick search and really didn’t find much… Curious to know what everyone has used to cut the gauge holes, indicator lights, ignition switch, etc… in the carbon dash. From the factory five instructions it looks like they use normal hole saws and drill bits but I would hate to try and use one only for it to completely shred/chip the carbon. Wondering if diamond hole saws would be better?

[cgundermann]

Running the drill bits in reverse helps minimizes cracks/fissures or for larger holes, start out smaller and enlarge with a rotary tool with a drum sander for nice edges.

Chris

[Jeff Kleiner]

For the smaller holes like switches and indicators I make a small 1/8" pilot hole then follow it up with the appropriate size spade bit. For the larger gauge holes I use an adjustable circle cutter. Here's one example:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcS8osvBX3PzKyQZuDgJUoVqlDcrRoW OYIGWL_SSPHtBc3eh6Rdj_IMnc07LwcVA0jKMmS_61bVsicVs1 IJfTc2FRMtuYzdtX1pfgvTR9jXZoZiV_YIBAkZ34w&usqp=CAY

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/1?lsf=seller:1135568,store:13293691133456691245&prds=pid:1854258562599776724,oid:18542585625997767 24&q=circle+cutter+drill+bit&hl=en&ei=Y2qvYYHmNI2IsAWLqr-IDQ&lsft=gclid:Cj0KCQiAqbyNBhC2ARIsALDwAsDOXt2YMoWuO94 ygdEm4iyNeJPwcuOsQPqUEprI3U6c0R4WDTv7ooMaAjv5EALw_ wcB

Use a mask when cutting; CF dust is nasty!

Jeff

[J R Jones]

There is a Slugger kit of mill-like cutting tools for sheet metal that work well on plastic. My kit is 5/16 to 3/4. I find a step drill works well in plastic at slow speed.
I speculate a diamond cutter would do fine.

jim

[cgundermann]

For the smaller holes like switches and indicators I make a small 1/8" pilot hole then follow it up with the appropriate size spade bit. For the larger gauge holes I use an adjustable circle cutter. Here's one example:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcS8osvBX3PzKyQZuDgJUoVqlDcrRoW OYIGWL_SSPHtBc3eh6Rdj_IMnc07LwcVA0jKMmS_61bVsicVs1 IJfTc2FRMtuYzdtX1pfgvTR9jXZoZiV_YIBAkZ34w&usqp=CAY

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/1?lsf=seller:1135568,store:13293691133456691245&prds=pid:1854258562599776724,oid:18542585625997767 24&q=circle+cutter+drill+bit&hl=en&ei=Y2qvYYHmNI2IsAWLqr-IDQ&lsft=gclid:Cj0KCQiAqbyNBhC2ARIsALDwAsDOXt2YMoWuO94 ygdEm4iyNeJPwcuOsQPqUEprI3U6c0R4WDTv7ooMaAjv5EALw_ wcB

Use a mask when cutting; CF dust is nasty!

Jeff

Yes, the CF dust is super nasty and gets into everything!

Chris

[toadster]

I've used holesaws for the gauges, go slow and yes, wear a mask! or have a vacuum handy to catch the dust

for the small holes, the starter hole and the appropriate size bit... the drill bits can 'tear' at the fibers, I've noticed that high speed and low plunge speed does the best - creates a ton of dust but makes a clean hole

158383

[Otee453]

I used Milwaukee hole saws chucked in a hand drill. Used the hole saw sized ~⅛”-¼” smaller than required and then used a mini drum sander on a Dremel tool to carefully open up the hole to proper size. I used plywood backing under the cf dash and placed blue painters tape on both sides of the cf to minimize fraying of the cf.

The first couple cuts cause increased respiration, perspiration and anxiety levels… lol. After the first couple holes, no problems and it cut clean and easy.

[zackmd1]

The first couple cuts cause increased respiration, perspiration and anxiety levels… lol. After the first couple holes, no problems and it cut clean and easy.

Exactly considering its a $500 part!

Thanks everyone for the replies! I will be tackling it this weekend.

[Bill_VA]

One of the most important tools is a respirator. Carbon fiber dust is not good for you and will stay with you for life.

[zackmd1]

So regular hole saws did the trick! No real tearing or chipping at all.

(silver screws are temporary until I can find black button head screws)

158915

[mikeinatlanta]

Carbon dust is generally not as much a hazard as fiberglass with both being large enough as to not be truly respirable, especially when bound to the plastic resin matrix. Neither is as dangerous as the glass used in home insulation. While wearing a respirator is obviously the smart move, carbon dust isn't the evil it's made out to be. A bigger issue to consider with it is the fact that the dust is VERY conductive. It can quickly destroy things like motors and circuit boards. You should take every precaution possible to protect all things electrical from carbon dust.

Cutting carbon uses the same tools and procedures as fiberglass, only much easier. The carbon fibers are much more brittle than glass so they cut and sand much faster. When needing a clean hole I suggest going a bit small and sanding it up to size. This process will give a much better edge finish than any drill bit. When drilling on carbon made with a higher grade very hard and high Tg resin, a diamond hole saw works pretty well but will most likely gum up with the cheap resin used by FFR.

Alway tape both sides of the laminate and drill over a wood back up block. Leave the tape on during sanding as the fibers themselves are hard enough to damage the shine in unprotected areas.

[cgundermann]

I agree Mike, I haven't found anything including high speed Dremel cutters that won't leave small fissures in the carbon fiber. Granted the gauges cover the hole, my perfectionism doesn't like it . I always cut to a stand off and use a Dremel drum sander with both of the side's edges masked and take it down near my circle mark. Before FFR offered (should say, re-offered their carbon fiber dash), I made CF dashes for Forum members and other muscle cars. It's really easy if you are doing a real CF laminate to the FFR aluminum dash. Once the hole is masked off on both sides and opened up close to the size required, the drum sander cut cleanly and easily to the aluminum laminate, giving it a perfect edge.

*Did not know the CF dust was so conductive - thanks.

Chris

[mikeinatlanta]

*Did not know the CF dust was so conductive - thanks.

Chris
A lot of folks don't realize that it's basically the same material that many spark plug wire cores are made of.

[nucjd19]

A lot of folks don't realize that it's basically the same material that many spark plug wire cores are made of.


Yea this worried me when I skinned my transmission tunnel with CF to match my dash as there is a galvanic corrosion issue in theory. Time will tell. I used standard hole cutting bits on my drill press with wood as a backer to give it some stiffness and keep any flex to a minimum. Masking tape over the area I was drilling was key too. Wore a respirator and gloves but still got CF dash on my arms and that stuff ITCHES.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140848&d=1610932679
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150464&d=1625606688

[mikeinatlanta]

Yea this worried me when I skinned my transmission tunnel with CF to match my dash as there is a galvanic corrosion issue in theory. Time will tell. I used standard hole cutting bits on my drill press with wood as a backer to give it some stiffness and keep any flex to a minimum. Wore a respirator and gloves but still got CF dash on my arms and that stuff ITCHES.
]

Carbon and aluminum are on opposite ends of the galvanic scale, so unless the aluminum was protected with a nonconductive coating corrosion is almost a certainty.

E.g. As a galvanic potential training tool, I made a battery using 12"X12" aluminum and carbon fiber for the plates. Used polycarbonate as a case so the whole thing was see through. I used it to power the class wall clock.

[nucjd19]

Carbon and aluminum are on opposite ends of the galvanic scale, so unless the aluminum was protected with a nonconductive coating corrosion is almost a certainty.

E.g. As a galvanic potential training tool, I made a battery using 12"X12" aluminum and carbon fiber for the plates. Used polycarbonate as a case so the whole thing was see through. I used it to power the class wall clock.

I am hoping I that I had enough of a base epoxy coat that set up well before the CF went down and there is a good amount epoxy resin between the CF and the AL. Worried me but if I need to re do it down the road all good :) gives me another project learning how to vacuum form.

[Hoodlum60]

I second the blue painters tape over the area you are going to drill. I’ve had a lot of experience installing instruments and electronics in boats and this makes for much cleaner holes. I’ve also had good luck with new hole saws. Good luck!

[toadster]

So regular hole saws did the trick! No real tearing or chipping at all.

(silver screws are temporary until I can find black button head screws)

158915

looks good what gauges are those?

[Hoodlum60]

Great job!

[runamuk]

So regular hole saws did the trick! No real tearing or chipping at all.

(silver screws are temporary until I can find black button head screws)

158915

That looks nice

[zackmd1]

Gauges are New Vintage CFR series. The headlight switch and ignition switch are 1965 mustang switches. Word of advice if using this combo, lay everything out before cutting. I found that the headlight switch would not fit beside the ignition switch due to the spacing of the template causing the ignition switch to interfere with the headlight switch plug. I might add a power port between the ignition switch and heated seat switches just to fill that gap.

[Cody]

For the smaller holes like switches and indicators I make a small 1/8" pilot hole then follow it up with the appropriate size spade bit. For the larger gauge holes I use an adjustable circle cutter. Here's one example:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcS8osvBX3PzKyQZuDgJUoVqlDcrRoW OYIGWL_SSPHtBc3eh6Rdj_IMnc07LwcVA0jKMmS_61bVsicVs1 IJfTc2FRMtuYzdtX1pfgvTR9jXZoZiV_YIBAkZ34w&usqp=CAY

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/1?lsf=seller:1135568,store:13293691133456691245&prds=pid:1854258562599776724,oid:18542585625997767 24&q=circle+cutter+drill+bit&hl=en&ei=Y2qvYYHmNI2IsAWLqr-IDQ&lsft=gclid:Cj0KCQiAqbyNBhC2ARIsALDwAsDOXt2YMoWuO94 ygdEm4iyNeJPwcuOsQPqUEprI3U6c0R4WDTv7ooMaAjv5EALw_ wcB

Use a mask when cutting; CF dust is nasty!

Jeff

I used this exact cutter to do my MK2 carbon fiber dash years ago. Worked great!

[J R Jones]

Yea this worried me when I skinned my transmission tunnel with CF to match my dash as there is a galvanic corrosion issue in theory. Time will tell. I used standard hole cutting bits on my drill press with wood as a backer to give it some stiffness and keep any flex to a minimum. Masking tape over the area I was drilling was key too. Wore a respirator and gloves but still got CF dash on my arms and that stuff ITCHES.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=140848&d=1610932679
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150464&d=1625606688

Jon, I do not fabricate with FRP or carbon fiber without a one piece suit and latex exam gloves.
The best suits are through Finishmaster called Smart Gearhead Products: https://issuu.com/finishmaster/docs/smart_catalog_version10_issuu_update_1119
Page 21
To date my favorite gloves are Grip Protect Ultra 8 mil XL through Amazon. Good feel and durable.
jim

[Lidodrip]

Carbon and aluminum are on opposite ends of the galvanic scale, so unless the aluminum was protected with a nonconductive coating corrosion is almost a certainty.

Completely agree - In the sailing world, if you don't use a non-conductive coating when attaching fittings to a carbon fiber mast, they become "permanent". Tef-Gel works great.