Help! How to remove ball joint on upper control arms?

[dbo_texas]

I bought a kit from another builder and it turns out the upper control arms are upside down. When I flip them over, that means I now need to flip the ball joints over also. The problem is I haven't been able to remove them from the upper control arm plate. I tried clamping the ball joint nut in a vice and using the control arms to twist it off (opposite of how manual shows to install them).... No dice. Any tips or tricks for getting these out? I'm worried they were slathered with red Loctite before install but I have no idea. I do see there is a special 1 59/64 ball joint socket (https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-and-specialty-tools/ball-joint-installer-remover-tool/p/great-neck-ball-joint-socket/662809_0_0?cmpid=PLA:US:EN:AD:NL:1000000:TLS:81664 5350&gclid=CjwKCAiAwKyNBhBfEiwA_mrUMl4kYael9HNkP3GJVrse UaYxyeHVp22_jbFQLsHOz2z_lGtDiyvl5BoCZ20QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds). I may try that but any other options other than buying new plates and ball joints from FFR?
158222

[Jeff Kleiner]

Heat.

Jeff

[steno]

What Jeff said! Use a propane/MAP gas torch on the area around the ball joint. NOT on the ball joint itself. Then give it the old college try!

[rich grsc]

Doesn't look like the ball joint is upside down? Just the ends on the shaft. Take out the two bolts and flip the shaft?
Looked again, not the best picture angle, so it could be?

[egchewy79]

I used heat and the 1-59/64” socket on an air impact wrench to get it off. I had a 2’ breaker bar and an extra 3’ steel pipe just in case. Socket was cheap, like $20 on Amazon

[dbo_texas]

Doesn't look like the ball joint is upside down? Just the ends on the shaft. Take out the two bolts and flip the shaft?
Looked again, not the best picture angle, so it could be?

Not sure if these pics help - top view showing orientation. This is how they were installed. As far as I can tell, they are upside down - the grease fittings are pointing down instead of up and the solid side of the ball joint plates are opposite of where they should be. So when I flip them over, those items would be corrected but the ball joint would then be facing up instead of down, hence the need to remove and install from opposite side. If I'm mistaken, please let me know!

[CraigS]

If it were just the grease fittings that could be fixed by removing the pivots from the cross shaft and the sleeves and flipping them. But the BJ is also installed wrong in the BJ plate. The BJ should be angled outward. See how the threaded sleeve it is in has it's thicker side toward the center of the car? This pic from FFR shows the correct assembly. Ignore the blue arrow.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51361789577_8812a2669d_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mfEACa)coilover thread count (https://flic.kr/p/2mfEACa) by craig stuard (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152454123@N04/), on Flickr
Once the BJ is out just installing it from the opposite of the UCA will fix everything.

[ydousurf]

Darryl,

As Jeff & Steno said, heat in this case is your only friend! That, or more money? Propane or preferred MAPP gas. If the previous builder lathered on the loctite and used red, then you have a hell-of-a-chore (hence the flame) ahead of you. Sorry, (I/U/WE) gotta laugh and smile in situations like this. I know I do! Keeps one from throwing wrenches. Don't throw wrenches! However, curse words are always allowed! ;)

I personally would go as far as mounting the base of the "A-arm shaft" (the part where it bolts to the chassis) and bolt that to either a 2-3' 2x4 or a metal pipe. 2x4 should work fine. You're going to need leverage, think breaker bar mentality.

Then, from your vise pic, change your approach. Go with it at horizontal (parallel) to the vise jaws. Use heat, but 1st set your vise jaw width a "she-bit-shy" larger than the ball joint nut. You don't need to lock it in, but can quickly lock & unlock as needed. Then heat up both sides of the vise jaws, not glowing red, just get them really hot. This way your vise doesn't steal the heat from the control arm plate. Then immediately heat both sides (top & bottom) and all around the A-arm plate where the ball joint is. Again, avoid if possible the ball joint, but at this stage, focus on getting them out and not damaging the A-arm plate part(s). I would consider putting in new ball joint(s) anyway?
If necessary get someone to assist to apply heat as you use turn with lots of force to remove it. If I was nearby, I would roll-over and help. It will be hard, but you can do it!

Also, once you get the first one out, have a wire wheel (dremel or 1" size) ready and focus on getting the threads cleaned up immediately while it's warm before proceeding to the next one. Just be careful and monitor the threads as to not grind on them in one spot to long.

I/WE, hopefully will be able to celebrate virtually with you from a far with a beer in hand. Keep us posted - c[CHEERS!] All the best in your success!

[Jaysay]

Hi Darryl,

I also noticed that on the passenger side, your "trimmed" adjustment sleeve is toward the front of the car. It should be toward the rear on both sides. This will help with the alignment.

Jim

[J R Jones]

Speedway sells a box end wrench for the ball joint hex, # 910-82160. It has a long handle appropriate for striking.

On the topic of heat, I would disassemble the links from the ball joint plate and heat the plate. Melting the loctite will also heat-enlarge the plate. I use oxy-acetylene.
Holding the plate in your vice will be tricky.

CraigS is right, the ball joint angle at ride height should match, ball joint to upright. Plates with "0" angle are available. Yours look like 10 degrees.
jim

[dbo_texas]

I think I might try the special socket for the impact wrench first, along with heating up the joint as everyone mentioned. I had one hell of a time getting the front hub nuts removed, even using breaker bars. I ended up getting an electric corded impact wrench (400 lf-lb) and man, what an easy task with the right tool! Both sides came right off with zero effort. So I might try that since I already have the impact wrench. Just need to get a socket adapter.

Just out of curiosity, are the upper ball joint plates an OEM part or custom for FFR? If I somehow damage these trying to remove the ball joint, just wondering what options I have to replace them, besides contacting FFR for the replacements.

[ydousurf]

I believe those are FFR specific, unless a custom one is welded up?

Also, something to seriously consider is you might want to swap out any nuts and/or bolts that are "sketch looking" to continue to utilize? A few more buxs, but can put one's mind-at-ease.

I think everyone out here has your back and we all hope you get past the headache soon.

You can do it, Bro!

[dbo_texas]

I believe those are FFR specific, unless a custom one is welded up?

Also, something to seriously consider is you might want to swap out any nuts and/or bolts that are "sketch looking" to continue to utilize? A few more buxs, but can put one's mind-at-ease.

I think everyone out here has your back and we all hope you get past the headache soon.

You can do it, Bro!

Thanks I appreciate it. I'm keeping an eye on the bolts and nuts for any wear, especially the nylock nuts. I already bought new spindle/hub nuts as I know those are one time use. Thanks fort the words of encouragement. I'm always amazed at how people in this forum are so quick to help out and offer advice, especially for relatively new guys like myself that haven't worked on these cars before.

[J R Jones]

I think I might try the special socket for the impact wrench first, along with heating up the joint as everyone mentioned. I had one hell of a time getting the front hub nuts removed, even using breaker bars. I ended up getting an electric corded impact wrench (400 lf-lb) and man, what an easy task with the right tool! Both sides came right off with zero effort. So I might try that since I already have the impact wrench. Just need to get a socket adapter.

Just out of curiosity, are the upper ball joint plates an OEM part or custom for FFR? If I somehow damage these trying to remove the ball joint, just wondering what options I have to replace them, besides contacting FFR for the replacements.

The ball joint housing and link rods originated in short track racing years ago, and the format was adopted by FFR. Housings in various configurations are available at the mail order speed equipment suppliers like Summit, Speedway and Jegs.
You have to be careful to get the correct link fastener spread and as I mentioned before, the correct ball joint angle. +/- 10 degrees as you pictured, or "0" degrees.
jim

[Rdone585]

Thanks to others who have posted this info in the past. I copied it down and kept it.
Ball joints - It's originally a Chrysler part, and as Jim pointed out it's been adopted by some of the racing configurations. The industry # for these is Moog K772.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Just out of curiosity, are the upper ball joint plates an OEM part or custom for FFR? If I somehow damage these trying to remove the ball joint, just wondering what options I have to replace them, besides contacting FFR for the replacements.

They are off the shelf parts from SPC.

http://https://www.spcalignment.com/spc-performance

Jeff

[dbo_texas]

They are off the shelf parts from SPC.

http://https://www.spcalignment.com/spc-performance

Jeff

Hey Jeff,
The link doesn't seem to be working - do you happen to know the p/n? I looked at their website and found this Chrystler part - this the right one (
92002 - 10° CHRYSLER BALL JOINT PLATE)?

https://www.spcalignment.com/component/content/index.php?option=com_spc&task=part_description&pid=92002

[JeffP]

This is interesting, as many have cut the sleeves, if we didn't want to go that route it looks like we could just buy shorter ones?

[CraigS]

dbo, yes that is it. To see the section on UCAs and their parts go to dbo's link. Click 'Catalogs' at the top. Click 'online catalog' for the 2020-2021 Source book. In the grey bar at the top type in page 154. The next 5-6 pages has all the parts for the UCAs. I usually get the number here and then go to Summit to order. In the Summit search window type in 'spc 92002' and the ball joint plate will pop up.
JeffP, yes you can. Maybe. I don't remember the stock length from FFR but SPC has them in several lengths. See above to find them.

[Jeff Kleiner]

This is interesting, as many have cut the sleeves, if we didn't want to go that route it looks like we could just buy shorter ones?

Yes you can, however: (1) Shorter sleeves are only part of the equation with the other part being that the male stubs need to be trimmed back as well or the threads will bottom out inside the sleeves and still not allow enough adjustment (2) cutting the sleeves is FREE! ;)

Jeff

[weendoggy]

Yes you can, however: (1) Shorter sleeves are only part of the equation with the other part being that the male stubs need to be trimmed back as well or the threads will bottom out inside the sleeves and still not allow enough adjustment (2) cutting the sleeves is FREE! ;)

Jeff

Just be careful how much you cut. They are NOT threaded all the way and can lead to the same issue with an abrupt stop on threads. Best scenario would be to cut each sleeve end equally along with the threaded ends. Oh, be sure you have RH & LH tap/die set for 3/4-16 if you need to clean up your threads. All SPC rods/sleeves are 3/4-16. I've seen some F5's with 5/8-18, which are not SPC.

[dbo_texas]

Just a follow-up for those who run across this same problem. I ended up going with the blow torch + impact wrench with special ball joint socket (1 59/64"). This combo made quick work of getting the threads to break loose on both sides. After getting the ball joint out, I wire brushed the threads on both the ball joint and the receiver and cleaned them up. When I re-threaded them into the receiver plate on the control arm, there were no issues (they went in fine). I used a dab of medium Loctite per the assembly manual, and then marked the joint with some thread tamper indicator markers so I'll be able to easily tell if it moves at all.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158547&d=1639366595