This Definitely Is Not A Factory Five MK-1 Roadster!

[GoDadGo]

Gang,

I always look at our cars on B.A.T. and this one has me perplexed.
Can one of you fellows who is far more knowledgable than me check this thing out?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-factory-five-racing-cobra-replica/

I think B.A.T. has had the rug pulled over their eyes on this one.
Having never seen a MK-1 the frame looks nothing like any Factory 5 Roadster I've seen.

Steve


Update:.. I've changed the title of this thread since we've determined that this car is Definitely Not A Factory Five Roadster of any generation.

[AC Bill]

I'm not familiar with the early Mk1's, but there certainly isn't anything that stands ou, as being an FFR.
Trunk configuration, frame, etc., are all very different. Even the body..(I actually like the body lines better than the FFR's.)
It has an FFR frame # plate like none I have ever seen before, but again I have no idea if that's what they once supplied.

[mrmustang]

Gang,

I always look at our cars on B.A.T. and this one has me perplexed.
Can one of you fellows who is far more knowledgable than me check this thing out?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-factory-five-racing-cobra-replica/

I think B.A.T. has had the rug pulled over their eyes on this one.
Having never seen a MK-1 the frame looks nothing like any Factory 5 Roadster I've seen.

Steve

No, it has been correctly identified as a "Sterling Cobra" and not a FFR of any kind. :rolleyes:

Bill S.

[tonywy]

I'm on B.AT. all the time as well, I looked at that car too and I don't see anything representing FFR.

[GoDadGo]

I'm on B.AT. all the time as well, I looked at that car too and I don't see anything representing FFR.

They had it advertised as a Factory-5 MK-1 plus it had some sort of Factory-5 Tag on it showing a serial number plate on Picture #219.

[michael everson]

I posted several times on that car. They really should have changed the ad once it was determined to not be a FFR. That VIN plate from FFR sure is a strange one. In all me years I have never seen one like that.
Mike

[Hellion]

I have an MK-1 and mine doesn't look anything like that one.

[ggunter]

It sure sounds like a peppy running 302, I do like that hood scoop.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Cars being represented as Factory Fives when they aren’t is not especially uncommon. Sometimes it’s due to ignorance and other times blatantly deceptive… I was at the Auburn auction a few years ago and commented to the dealer representing a car that it was a Street Beast, not a Factory Five. He replied something to the effect of he didn't care, nobody knows what a Street Beast is but everybody knows Factory Five. Well OK then :mad:

Jeff

[GoDadGo]

Cars being represented as Factory Fives when they aren’t is not especially uncommon. Sometimes it’s due to ignorance and other times blatantly deceptive… I was at the Auburn auction a few years ago and commented to the dealer representing a car that it was a Street Beast, not a Factory Five. He replied something to the effect of he didn't care, nobody knows what a Street Beast is but everybody knows Factory Five. Well OK then :mad:

Jeff

Yep, Even Jay Leno Knows About Factory Five Racing!

https://youtu.be/eVxSqnNQR9s

B.A.T. needs to let the buyer know that their customer didn't buy what he or she thought they were buying.

[Bob 5.0]

This is a FFR Mk 1

[GoDadGo]

This is a FFR Mk 1

I've never seen a bare MK-1 frame before.
Thanks for posting the picture.
It is appreciated!

[weendoggy]

This is a FFR Mk 1

If that's an IRS frame, when did they move the RLCA pivot to the bottom? Mine's not like that and it's a MKI.

[michael everson]

Im with Weendoggy. That doesnt look like any IRS i have ever seen. Must be custom from the end of the 4 inch tubes back.
mike

[GTBradley]

So is it safe to say, if it doesn’t have a 4” tubular, ladder frame, it’s not a Factory Five?

[GoDadGo]

So is it safe to say, if it doesn’t have a 4” tubular, ladder frame, it’s not a Factory Five?

We've heard from Jeff Kleiner and Mike Everson, both are professional builders, so I'm 99% sure that the 4" round tube chassis has been a signature of Factory Five Racing and of course, The Real Deal Shelby America Cars! Kirkhams also has a similar chassis with the 4" round tube as their foundation.

[Bob 5.0]

Sorry guys I forgot to mention that I made my own IRS for the Mark 1 it's based off a 03 mustang svt cobra ! I used the diff and outer hubs then made everything else myself !!!

[GoDadGo]

Sorry guys I forgot to mention that I made my own IRS for the Mark 1 it's based off a 03 mustang svt cobra ! I used the diff and outer hubs then made everything else myself !!!

That's Way, Way, Way Tougher Than Stuffing A SBC & ZF 6-Speed In A MK-4!

[mrmustang]

Sorry guys I forgot to mention that I made my own IRS for the Mark 1 it's based off a 03 mustang svt cobra ! I used the diff and outer hubs then made everything else myself !!!

You also added the passenger side rollbar mounting stubs, which the original MK I did not have :cool:

Bill S.

[Bob 5.0]

Sorry Bill they did come from FFR that way !!!! It was ordered by the customer who purchased the kit!!

[GoDadGo]

I've changed the title of this thread since we've determined that this car is Definitely Not A Factory Five Roadster of any generation.

[J R Jones]

Mendacity is expressed in many ways, and ultimately is judged with the eyes of the beholder. He who does not misrepresent shall cast the first objection.

[Cobradavid]

I'm on B.AT. all the time as well, I looked at that car too and I don't see anything representing FFR.

According to the receipts, it has FFR headlights -see photo #234. Headlights - that's all it takes to make it a Factory Five, right? :)

Granted, mine is a Mk 3.1 and things changed between the Mk 1 and 3.1, but my REAL FFR chassis plate doesn't have a space to record the "Moter No." (or the "Motor no." for that matter) - see photo #219. This almost seems to be intentional fraud - by someone who can't spell.

The receipt for 6 hrs of labor to "repair tubing (weld cracks)" - see photo #237 - is interesting. I wonder what was cracked, why it was cracked, and how well it was repaired.

David

[Papa]

I posted several times on that car. They really should have changed the ad once it was determined to not be a FFR. That VIN plate from FFR sure is a strange one. In all me years I have never seen one like that.
Mike

Did Factory Five Racing ever call the Roadster a Cobra?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=157674&d=1637966440

[Jeff Kleiner]

Did Factory Five Racing ever call the Roadster a Cobra?



Yes, prior to the lawsuits.

Jeff

[mrmustang]

Sorry Bill they did come from FFR that way !!!! It was ordered by the customer who purchased the kit!!


Not in a MK I it was not an option directly from FFR back then.

Bill S.

[GoDadGo]

I've sent an E-Mail to B.A.T. regarding this car NOT being a Factory-5 Roadster.
Stuff like this devalues our cars and while it is giving Factory 5 Racing a bad name.

[GTBradley]

There is still something stranger going on here. I mean you can see why BAT said it was an FFR roadster - the plaque. If you assume the plaque is a forgery you have to wonder why someone would go to the trouble. It looks like it could be a real plaque from the very early days, but then why would it have that high of a serial number? I wonder too, did FFR make prototype cars early on that didn't have the 4" tube frame? I think Dave is the guy to ask if he made that plaque.

[Cobradavid]

^^^I agree with that^^^

If this was a FFR-supplied plaque, would FFR really spell "motor" wrong on their plaques?

David

[Papa]

I'm assuming the plaque is something that wasn't produced by FFR based on the spelling error and serial number. Looks like something someone had engraved themselves; not hard to do.

[GoDadGo]

I sent a communication to Mad Dog with the B.A.T. link and this forum thread.

[John Ibele]

"Hey, is that a REAL Factory Five?!" I love it :)

[GTBradley]

I don't think it's engraved. It looks to me to be a copper plate that was stenciled/silkscreen and it's old, or made to look that way. I just don't see anyone going to the effort to fake a Factory Five, especially way back then.

I really hope we get the answer to this, it's a major "who done it?" mystery in my opinion.

[Cobradavid]

I'm assuming the plaque is something that wasn't produced by FFR based on the spelling error and serial number. Looks like something someone had engraved themselves; not hard to do.

I agree. That's my point: this seems like deliberate fraud.