Difference in TKO and TKX shiffting effort? [Archive]

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ggunter

11-04-2021, 10:12 AM

I am considering changing my trans form a TKO to a TKX and would like to hear from anyone who has shifted both. MY TKO shifts and operates perfectly, except.... trying to make a fast shift. I'm not talking about above 6500 rpm, I'm talking about anytime below that rpm usually 5500-6000. You just have to wait for that synchro to line up and drop in. For me it feels like forever when I know it's only about a second. It's not like my old Muncie which I could slam at 7000 plus and it would fall in gear. I woud just like to know if the TKX corrects this issue.

Todd Baumann

11-04-2021, 10:27 AM

I definitely can say I have noticed a smoother transition from TKO to the TKX. Is not as notchy I guess would be the term you hear often.
I have been very pleased with mine so far and haven't missed a shift at any speed yet either.
I think you would like it overall but not sure if this being the only issue if I would say go for it.
I don't think that this one issue would justify the cost if this is all you don't like about the TKO.
But as we say at the Build School is : It's your car do as you see fit. Your the one that is driving it all the time in the end.
HTH,
Todd

ggunter

11-04-2021, 11:13 AM

Thanks Todd, the only thing bothering me is the ability to make a quick shift with this trans. I talked to people at Tremec yesterday and they told me why it does not shift as fast as a TKX and it' basically just a redesign of the synchronizer rings and material. But he works there and won't say anything bad about his product. I just wanted to hear first hand form someone who has pulled the shifter on both units.Thanks Gary

GTBradley

11-04-2021, 12:01 PM

I can't help with a comparison, but I would like to say that I have never understood the typical complaints about TKOs. Mine shifts normally and even allows for quick shifting, which, by the way, I don't do at redline or full-throttle anymore because I discovered that even at 78 mph it will break loose and get sideways. I wonder if maybe you're clutch needs adjusting?

Fman

11-04-2021, 12:05 PM

Same as experience here as GTBradley with TKO, I can shift quickly 1st though 4th, from 4th to 5th there is some delay which is about 115 mph+. FWIW I am running hydraulic clutch from Forte.

NAZ

11-04-2021, 12:58 PM

Search the web for Liberty Gears, they can fix your TKO shifting issue

Jim1855

11-04-2021, 04:34 PM

Search the web for Liberty Gears, they can fix your TKO shifting issue

Not necessarily. I had Liberty do my TKO-600, a bunch-o-bucks. Better? Probably, but still not the smoothest trans I've ever experienced. Made no difference on the 4-5 or even worse 5-4 shift. I quit shifting into 5th on the track and just spun 4th, generally to 140. Now in all fairness I have a mid-shift conversion and a very short, shout shifter, it's about 6" from the internal pivot point to the shift knob. This does make a difference. Also my 600 is a July 2004 version, probably a few enhancements since then.

Jim

NAZ

11-04-2021, 07:35 PM

Liberty has a wide array of modification options that will make the TKO shift faster and can increase the strength of the gears. I had them face plate one for drag racing -- no hesitation between gear changes when banging shifts but it did shift like a Harley (with a clunk) so that extreme mod is not for those that are adverse to NVH. But they have more street car friendly mods that will improve shifting. And I had them cryo treat my gears and this will increase the torque rating from 600 lb ft to 700 lb ft that the 1st gear can handle without damage.

Or, purchase another trans. The TKO high speed shifting hesitation is real and won't go away by itself. If you never had a problem shifting one then I suspect you never really tried banking a gear like a drag racer. A half-second shift is not banking a gear.

frankeeski

11-04-2021, 07:48 PM

first time builder

11-04-2021, 07:54 PM

LIberty Trans upgrade is fantastic ! But costly.

GTBradley

11-04-2021, 09:28 PM

The TKO doesn't require a lot of input for correct, quick shifts. But it doesn't shift like other transmissions. I always steer "owners" to this video. Chances are it's just too much input on the drivers part.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODQDwu-Z7hc

Interesting and validating. My dad told me a long time ago when talking about airplanes, don’t fight it, you might win. I also learned way back that you should let the transmission do it’s work, it’s designed for as little input as possible. Pull and push don’t grip. 5th and reverse not withstanding.

NAZ

11-04-2021, 11:43 PM

Frank brings up a good point, there is a technique to making the 2-3 up-shift. That's another quirk of the TKO but the more serious quirk for those of us that drag race is the synchros not allowing a quick shift in any gear. Technique won't fix that but the good news is most folks won't even notice the issue as drag racers are about the only ones that lean that hard on their transmissions for this issue to materialize. And most street driven cars with limited valve trains and hydraulic lifters will likely not shift at a high enough RPM to see the issue. My shift points are at 8000 RPM -- well outside the RPM range a stock TKO can accommodate a fast shift. But a face plated one can.

The TKO is a good trans but for some applications, needs a little work to make it great. Here's a couple of videos that show what a modified TKO is capable of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmouQUaAANA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4KKwny6Q1A

So if you're having trouble shifting from 1 to 2 or other than 2-3 and you're shifting at 6000 RPM or more, you may benefit from some shifting mods. Only you can decide if that's a value added change worth the $$ and time investment.

BEAR-AvHistory

11-05-2021, 01:27 AM

Have not had a chance to try a TKX. I pretty much grew up on Muncie 4MT's (M20 & M22) in Chevys '62, Pontiacs '64, '66, '69 & Corvettes '62, '67.

Found hand position had a lot to do with how well or not well they shifted. 1/2 Palm over the ball starlight pull. 2/3 palm to the left back side of the ball. Push upper right. 3/4 Palm over the ball straight pull. The 3/2 downshift was the opposite of the 2/3 upshift with the palm on the right front side of the ball pull back left.

Have been driving the TKO-600 the same way with a 7,000 shift point. You can't jam it like a Rock Crusher but you can still do a quick smooth shift with this transmission if you let the internals do the work.

ggunter

11-05-2021, 07:15 AM

All good points here, I did watch the video on the 2-3 shift of just putting your palm behind the ball and just push forward and letting the spring in the neutral gate do the positioning and that helped a lot, because I would sometimes go from second to fifth with my fist wrapped arounnd the ball. Most times when I'm kicking this thing its only a 1-2 shift because of running out of room. It's just waiting for the synchronizer to do it's thing. I did look at the point of clutch engagement thinking it wasn't releasing enough but where my clutch engages it's more than enough release during a shift. Anyway I ordered a new TKX and will install in the spring when my new motor comes.

Fman

11-05-2021, 09:11 AM

GoDadGo

11-05-2021, 11:34 AM

Jeff Kleiner

11-05-2021, 02:20 PM

For starters ya'll are doing it wrong. To properly handle a manual gearbox you need to be puffing a big ol' cigar and wearing black wing tip shoes.

https://youtu.be/ocC8MueSs_A

:) :cool:

Jeff

ydousurf

11-05-2021, 04:41 PM

Awesome, Jeff! I had to watch that 1/2 dozen times for more! It made me smile each time :) And I love the elbow "wing-pump" for timing too. If I'm a betting man, then (odd's) on, that he's hitting those gears with fineness as it should be, and (even's) he's slamming those one's - Cool! No doubt celebrating with the cig, just like Babe Ruth pointing down the track as a race car driver. Such a WINNER!

Ducky2009

11-05-2021, 05:01 PM

The video with Grumpy is great, but a different story. He used a crash box trans and no clutch. Thanks for sharing.

Jeff Kleiner

11-05-2021, 05:23 PM

The video with Grumpy is great, but a different story. He used a crash box trans and no clutch. Thanks for sharing.

Watch that again Ducky…the right leg never lifts but the left leg gives the clutch a stab when shifting.

Fun stuff…and I have done it more than a few by times ;)

Jeff

Ducky2009

11-05-2021, 05:29 PM

Watch that again Ducky…the right leg never lifts but the left leg gives the clutch a stab when shifting.

Fun stuff…and I have done it more than a few by times ;)

Jeff

You're right Jeff. I see it now. That's how I shifted my street hotrod. I'm used to a crashbox and shifting without the clutch at the strip, in the old days, lol.

frankeeski

11-05-2021, 07:49 PM

Thanks-O-Million!
I just sent your YOUTUBE link to my pals who have TKO Transmissions.

Just to be clear here, that's NOT my video. But I am more than happy to help out fellow builders. I'm no longer allowed to post links to my own video here. Little daggers or some such thing?

FFinisher

11-28-2021, 09:19 PM

I have driven both, and I can tell you the shifting effort is much smoother and not clunky at all . So much that I wasn't really paying much attention until I recognized how smooth it shifted. In other words it was noticeable and significant without even thinking about it.

I never had any issues with the TKO, but the TKX is certainly smoother.

I was not pounding on it and shifting hard as I was in a customer car. Under normal driving it was excellent.