Yet another failure to start thread

[Al_C]

I thought we had this fixed, but apparently not. Let's take it from the top.

Several days ago I took the roadster out because it was a nice day. No other reason (who needs one anyway?). I went down the road for about a mile, being appropriately obnoxious on the accelerator - just because I could and it was a nice day. I make a left turn at about 25 mph (which shouldn't affect anything, really) and all of a sudden the engine starts to stumble. It was not happy with throttle inputs, but was OK loafing. Quick u-turn and back home into the safety of the garage. "We limped back" would be the optimist's description. The bit about being obnoxious with the accelerator was to demonstrate that at the beginning of the drive the engine was responding well to throttle inputs.

I pinged a few coyote guys and based on their thinking ruled out MAF issues and focused on the fuel pump. I know that (based on what I'm hearing) a number of guys have had issues with the connector between the RF harness and the pump housing. It's the red push-on connector. I had power to that connector (measured with probes on a multi-meter) and the pump fires when I put wires to it that are connected to a battery. I believe the pump is good. My personal advisors were suggesting - and I concurred - that the issue was the connector itself.

Yesterday: new part arrives. I swap connectors. Push it on, get in the car, step on clutch and turn key. Motor turns over, and over, and over and over. Obviously, it isn't getting any gas. Finally, the motor doesn't turn over anymore. Could I have drained the battery? Quite possibly. So I connect the charger, see that I still have 50% battery, leave it plugged in, turn out the light and go inside.

Today: battery fully charged. Power to the connector (on the trusty multi-meter). Pump still fires using trusty Makita battery. Connect everything, hop in, push in the clutch and turn the key. Nothing. Just the little chirp you get when the pump primes - or was it? (I may still have a connection issue there) Bottom line: engine is not turning over.

My coyote is wired for two clutch switches. There has been no change in the past few days, weeks, whatever, to anything near the clutch. I would rule them out. There are no stored or pending codes. My thinking was that if the PCM was unhappy about the "over-cranking" of the engine it would publish some sort of error code.

Is there any other interlock that would prevent the engine from turning over? The fuel inertia switch is wired to the pump, so if there is power to the connector, the inertia switch should be OK.

Issue number 1: Has anyone had an issue with a new connector not making a good connection at the fuel pump on the tank?

My main concern was if I was getting a good enough connection at the fuel pump for it to pump, but no longer.

Issue number 2 and primary concern now is why it won't turn over.

I appreciate your thoughts and ideas!

[cob427sc]

I would guess it has to do with either one of the clutch switches not allowing the starter to engage or a failure of the starter/solenoid. I guess another option is the ignition switch itself which has been known to fail. I'd start testing out the lead to the solenoid first to see if it is energized when the key is turned to start.

[nuhale]

As we discussed on the phone Al I believe it’s the flux capacitor. We know yours goes to 11.

[Jryasko]

Yep Al try what cob427 says, see if you have a signal to the starter. if not take a jumper from the battery and touch the starter Start terminal to see if it bumps it over. if it does and you have no power to the start terminal with the key, you'll have to start backtracking. Call me if you need to.

[RBachman]

Regarding issue #1. I had to replace my fuel pump and sending unit connectors because of inherent bad connections.

[Al_C]

All good thoughts (with the possible exception of the flux capacitor, which is new out of the box...)

Here's today's plan: 1. check fuses. If they're good, step 2=check power to starter. If good, try Jim Yasko's suggestion of wire to starter (in which case I might just invite Mr. Yasko to participate - more hands are helpful!). I also need to tweak the contact points on the connector.

This was supposed to be an easy problem to fix. I should have known better than to think that...

[Kodiak]

Al on my build the RF harness the red connector that powers the fuel pump would not click into a locking position. I had to take a small dremel file to massage it open enough for positive locking clip to fit properly.

[Al_C]

Al on my build the RF harness the red connector that powers the fuel pump would not click into a locking position. I had to take a small dremel file to massage it open enough for positive locking clip to fit properly.

Kodiak, I think you hit it on the head. The new part does not "lock" into place. Here's a photo of the piece and the contact points:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=155241&d=1635952984

I have to get the contacts moved over to meet the posts, or trim some of the plastic.

[egchewy79]

I also had to massage the contacts a bit on my fuel pump connector and would not have noticed it but did see that my fuel level sender snapped into place, which prompted me to mess with the pump connector until it clicked in place.

[Al_C]

Here's "the rest of the story". You will recall two problems: lack of fuel and no crank. Let's deal with the "no crank" first: the coyote has built-in protection from over-cranking. At some point (which I apparently crossed), the engine shuts down and that's it. The solution (thank you, Ford tech line) is to disconnect the battery for at least 30 minutes, then reconnect everything. In that time, the PCM will reset itself and life will continue unabated. Well, in my case that didn't happen. After the requisite amount of checking grounds, fuses, etc. we got to the starter and hotwired it. the idea was to ensure that the starter itself hadn't burned out. Sure enough, it cranked. Then, we tried the ignition again. Cranked and started. No problem, at least from a cranking perspective. The fuel issue remained.

I am kicking myself, because I should have recognized this sooner. There was no fuel pressure. That's been the issue all along. The pump was running, but not very well. I got a new pump (Nuhale's extra...), installed it and everything works again. End of story.

Lessons: watch how long you crank the engine or it will cost you another 30 minutes; the harness to fuel pump connector comes apart easily so you can move the contacts to meet the fuel pump prongs; if the fuel pressure gauge on the regulator says <20, it's the fuel pump.

It's supposed to get pretty cold this weekend. I think today may have been our last decent driving day, so I just made it under the wire. Car ran great!

[Ed Mc]

Glad you got it sorted out, and as you said just in time for snow this weekend!

[Jryasko]

Just a sidebar to your crank issue Al. You have a Gen 2 Coyote and this must completely shut down the crank signal until you reset the PCM by unhooking the battery for a period of time. I have a Gen 3 Coyote and I'm guessing Ford changed that protection as far as how it resets. During my initial startup, I to cranked too long and it stopped cranking. I called Ford Tech and asked if it had a protection built in, their answer was yes and I just had to wait about 20 minutes and it resumed cranking. No disconnecting of battery involved. Just thought I would pass that along to other builders.

[nuhale]

Glad its all sorted Al

[chuckster]

Well yesterday afternoon I had the ride of shame, and I am a moron. I went out for a nice afternoon ride, stopped by a friends house to take him for a ride. After 20 minutes in his house we went out to the car and it wouldn’t start. Cranked OK but it just wouldn’t run,it coughed and sputtered, but would not run. Called AAA , two hour wait. When I got home I had a thought, the gas gauge read a quarter tank. I’ve never let it get cut down that far before. Put 2 gallons of high test in the tank fired right up. I’d run out of gas. Time to re-calibrate the gas gauge. Like I said, I’m a Moron.

[frankb]

Chuckster:

Don't beat yourself up...running out of gas is my trademark! Just ask Mrs Frankb!