MKIV Complete Kit Build Thread - Wisconsin

[cheverett]

#10205

Stewart Transport should be in Wisconsin this Friday or Saturday. My 15 year-old son did a great job on the body buck and the garage is ready. Can't wait to build this with him over the next couple years. Some of the custom work you all do is amazing and I wish we were capable of that. I think we are planning to stay in our lane and keep to the book. We are already learning a lot from the many build threads here. Thank you for those and thank you in advance for any advice along the way!!

MKIV Complete Kit
BPE 427 Carbureted
TKO 600 transmission
Mechanical Fuel Pump
Manual steering
Hydraulic clutch
Powdercoated chassis
Lowback vintage seats
17" Halibrand wheel/tire
2018 IRS 3.55 center section/spindles
FFR 13" IRS brake kit
FFR stainless side exhaust
Chrome driver rollbar
Swaybars front/rear
Wind wings
Sun visors
Heater/Defroster
Body cut outs
Paint = my son wants to do black with grey racing stripes

[cheverett]

BODY BUCK

Followed body buck template in back of online manual.
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[Railroad]

Some of the best advise I got for my kit was power steering. I do not know how to convince you, but it is a win-win option.
Like your option list.

[ydousurf]

cheverett, looks like you have a solid plan and you just can't go wrong with a 427 carb'd - old school baby! I'm going with EFI on mine, but you might want to go with the new TKX transmission? Make sure to video that delivery from Stewart Transport. I tell you, that was, for me, and incredible highlight and so glad I captured my emotions. Other than that, enjoy building it with your son (priceless) and other family members & friends. I too will be following along...

Dj

[Fman]

Congratulations, that will be a great project with your son. Good call on the 427 fun engine to have in these cars! I am with Railroad on adding power steering, would definitely consider adding it to your build. Also would look into Mike Forte's mechanical throttle linkage. With the current part supply shortage do not be surprised if you have to bounce all over on the build and divert form the build manual, usually you can always find something to work on.

Have fun with your build, looking forward to seeing it come together.

[cheverett]

Thanks! We've gotta think about steering options a little more. Like the idea of it feeling like the original but not completely sure.

[ydousurf]

Come to think of it... You might also want to consider integrating some of (RT-Russ Thompson) product's? The (DT- Drop Trunk) kit is very cool, not to mention his (TS-Turn Signal) and other accessories he has to offer. Check em out, you will not be disappointed! I have the DT/TS and throttle pedal for my build. I also added the NRG Steering Wheel Thin / Slim Quick Release Version and did that mod to remove my steering wheel. None are simple mods to do, but with the right planning, tools and just taking your time carefully, they can be accomplished. Enjoy the journey...

Dj

[John Ibele]

Hey, welcome to the fun, and thanks sharing the journey with a build thread. Building with your son is such a great experience, and from the sound of it he's both motivated and capable, which is cool. It'll be fun to see your updates. Where in Wisconsin are you? I'm in the Twin Cities if you're ever over this way. Cheers -- John

[cheverett]

Hey, welcome to the fun, and thanks sharing the journey with a build thread. Building with your son is such a great experience, and from the sound of it he's both motivated and capable, which is cool. It'll be fun to see your updates. Where in Wisconsin are you? I'm in the Twin Cities if you're ever over this way. Cheers -- John

Thanks! We are 30 minutes north of Milwaukee.
Chad

[cheverett]

DELIVERY

Sharp looking truck arrived early this morning!
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Coming off the truck. Kelly was great!
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Up the driveway.
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Into the garage.
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Inventory starts when my son gets home from school!!
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[ydousurf]

It's such magical day! I know I was on cloud nine, er, five all day long... And Kelly is such a cool person and delivered mine too. I so want to believe... (pun intended) That if I was a truck driver, I would love to work for Stewart Transport and play Santa delivering for Factory Five! I still remember when he dropped mine off, it was Christmas and I was a young boy again :D Have a great time and just enjoy each and every moment. All the best on your build journey!

[GoDadGo]

Congratulations!

..............This is truly a very special day.

[Indy Shu]

Congratulations!
I was one stop before you on Thursday. I think ours were bunk mates.
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[cheverett]

That's so cool! Congrats to you too! Have fun!!

[cheverett]

INVENTORY

Inventory finished! Like most we are waiting on some key parts of front suspension, IRS, and many other items. My son and I are excited to start chipping away at what we can while we wait. We are planning to start with Sharkhide on all the aluminum while the weather is still decent.

My son put the first wrench on it!
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Blank slate is ready to go.
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[JB in NOVA]

Congrats! So awesome that your son got to put the first wrench on it. You guys are in for a great adventure together. I look foward to following along.

[cheverett]

F-PANEL AND UPPER BALL JOINT

Acetone to F panel and a coat of Sharkhide. Clecos are a great help - thank you to the forum for that! Rivet gun works really well too.
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Thanks to the great advice found on this forum we kept from breaking my small bench vise. My son took off a little coating of the upper ball joint threads with this nylon brush on the cordless drill. Just took some of the black paint off the threads. We were afraid to rough them up too much. Blue thread locker and we could screw it almost all the way into the upper control arm with a small pipe wrench. Then we tightened it in the vise.
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Just hand tightened and did not grease anything yet, but we have a start. Waiting on lower control arm and brake pads to go any further with this area. We have not yet decided on what we will work in the meantime.
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[jiriza84641]

COIL (Cobra Owners of Illinois) my have to take a drive to see you build next spring!

[cheverett]

COIL (Cobra Owners of Illinois) my have to take a drive to see you build next spring!

That would be really fun to see! We are not too far up into Wisconsin. We better get to work!!

[jiriza84641]

That would be really fun to see! We are not too far up into Wisconsin. We better get to work!!

It'll be a nice road trip, also, if you run into some questions feel free to hit us up, im on the FB forums as AL PACINO.

[cheverett]

REAR SPINDLE PREP AND PANELS

Rear spindle prep done with the couple holes enlarged to 5/8" and ears cut off. Sawzall worked well with finer tooth metal blades. Hubs torqued onto each spindle.
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My son getting the firewall panel on.
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Driver front footbox panel on. Acetone again to clean and Sharkhide coating on both.
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An unknown 28 pound package from FFR is set to arrive by FedEx tomorrow! Really hoping front LCA and shocks are in there or the center section mounting hardware. Otherwise we will sort out what else we can peck away at while we wait for delayed parts.

[cheverett]

Probably a simple answer that I am too slow to sort out, but why do some of my photos rotate counter-clockwise 90 degrees upon uploading here?

[RJD]

Probably a simple answer that I am too slow to sort out, but why do some of my photos rotate counter-clockwise 90 degrees upon uploading here?

Probably due to how you take the shot - landscape or portrait. I found that if you "edit" the photo, i.e., trim a little off the edges, or orient it the way you want it, and then save the photo prior to uploading, they'll orient correctly when you post.

[bil1024]

Congrats and welcome to the family! What type of floor tiles are you using there ?

[cheverett]

Congrats and welcome to the family! What type of floor tiles are you using there ?

Thanks!! Two of these vinyl mats 7.5' x 17' off amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YN55M94/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

[460.465USMC]

Probably a simple answer that I am too slow to sort out, but why do some of my photos rotate counter-clockwise 90 degrees upon uploading here?

Hi Cheverett. Welcome aboard!

If you're using a laptop with Windows, open the picture using Paint (free accessory that's part of windows) and Save. No need to adjust or alter the picture. I, too, have the picture rotation issue, but I Save any picture that is rotated and the issue is resolved.

[Ted G]

Congrats and I'm looking forward to your build. I'm due in mid March and will be following you. Good luck!

[TommyK215]

The spindle mod, what's up with that? I think I saw a couple of mentions about it...Thanks!

[cheverett]

The spindle mod, what's up with that? I think I saw a couple of mentions about it...Thanks!

We are still waiting on some parts to get deeper into the rear suspension but I believe the modified portion of the spindle is where the IRS upper control arm will be attached. Attached using a 5/8" bolt so we opened up the hole to that size and sawed that extra ear off to keep it from getting in the way.

[cheverett]

SECOND SWITCH MOUNT FABRICATED

Our only obstacle to getting the pedal box going was one missing switch mount. You can't even tell which one my son fabricated in the shop at the high school. Awesome learning experience for him and now we can still move forward a bit despite all the missing parts for every other step in the build.

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[egchewy79]

Looks better than the provided ones!

[Fordman114]

I will be following a couple months behind you. My kit is scheduled to be built on March 5, 2022. I am also in southern Wisconsin

[cheverett]

REAR STUDS

We finally went back to replace the studs in the rear hubs. This little gadget with a bearing in the back of it was AWESOME! Impact wrench to the lug nut and it pulled each stud straight through and tight in about 15 seconds.

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Filed head of stud like the OEM ones were to stay clear of the rubber ring.
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The manual states that it is possible to replace the studs with the hub on the spindle but easier with it off. The main issue was being unable to fully back out the old studs with the spindle in the way. We had to cut the old studs in half to then pound them and back them out. The more narrow studs from the kit insert back in easily with the spindle attached.

[cheverett]

PEDAL BOX AND MASTER CYLINDERS

Pedal box is in. QUESTION: When the time comes to adjust the brake and clutch switch positions, how far does each pedal have to actuate the white button on the end of each switch unit? Half way? All the way? I'm asking now because even if we bottom out each switch unit on the mount, the white button does not get pressed all the way in. Thought about slightly bending the mount toward each pedal or using a thin washer (or nothing) between the mount and the switch unit in order to set it back further toward the pedal??
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Master Cylinders hooked up.
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[edwardb]

Pedal box is in. QUESTION: When the time comes to adjust the brake and clutch switch positions, how far does each pedal have to actuate the white button on the end of each switch unit? Half way? All the way? I'm asking now because even if we bottom out each switch unit on the mount, the white button does not get pressed all the way in. Thought about slightly bending the mount toward each pedal or using a thin washer (or nothing) between the mount and the switch unit in order to set it back further toward the pedal??

Only way you're going to know for sure is with a continuity tester or VOM across the terminals on the switch. Highly recommend one or the other, preferably IMO a VOM, as a basic tool requirement for one of these builds. There are many great choices. No need to go real expensive or pro quality. Also wouldn't recommend too cheap. I'm very happy with my Klein Tools MM600.

[cheverett]

Only way you're going to know for sure is with a continuity tester or VOM across the terminals on the switch. Highly recommend one or the other, preferably IMO a VOM, as a basic tool requirement for one of these builds. There are many great choices. No need to go real expensive or pro quality. Also wouldn't recommend too cheap. I'm very happy with my Klein Tools MM600.


CLUTCH/BRAKE SWITCH

Thank you edwardb! Per the VOM it looks like the white switch only has to move about a third of the way in to function. We backed the switch units in a bit further toward the pedals using a thin washer between the mount and the unit instead of the provided thicker nut. This almost bottoms out the white switch button in neutral pedal position.
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[Fman]

FWIW I ended up adjusting my brake light switch once the tail lights were installed. It is easy to adjust and fine tune in, mine is set to come on as soon I put any pressure on the pedal obviously to alert other drivers I am beginning to brake. I chose not to run a clutch safety switch, seemed like one more little item that could cause a no start issue down the road. So far after 2200 miles I have no regrets not having a clutch safety switch. I have always started the car while sitting in drivers seat and confirmed it is in neutral.

[cheverett]

TRIPLE RESERVOIR

Triple reservoir mounted and connected to master cylinders. We made a quarter inch aluminum mount for in front of the foot box. (Seen on this forum - Thanks Papa!) Very stable in place. Drilled an extra 1 inch hole in the front foot box panel and ran the 3 hoses to the master cylinders. Bought some grommets and cushion clamps at the hardware store so we could get this done.

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[460.465USMC]

Triple reservoir mounted and connected to master cylinders. We made a quarter inch aluminum mount for in front of the foot box. (Seen on this forum - Thanks Papa!) Very stable in place. Drilled an extra 1 inch hole in the front foot box panel and ran the 3 hoses to the master cylinders. Bought some grommets and cushion clamps at the hardware store so we could get this done.

Kudos to you for drilling through the front wall of the DS footbox! That is thick and it ain't easy...and a 1" hole at that. I like your reservoir setup, and the aluminum bracket to mount them on just makes sense, doesn't it? Looking good, Cheverett!

[cheverett]

Kudos to you for drilling through the front wall of the DS footbox! That is thick and it ain't easy...and a 1" hole at that. I like your reservoir setup, and the aluminum bracket to mount them on just makes sense, doesn't it? Looking good, Cheverett!

Chris,
Full disclosure here :). We only had to drill the 1" hole through the aluminum panel for the front brake reservoir hose. The black fixed front footbox wall portion had a 1.5 inch hole in it already. I don't think we will need anything else going through that hole? Thanks!
Chad

[cheverett]

FRONT SUSPENSION

I did not break a sweat watching my 6'4" 290 lb. son torque the hub nut to 250.
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Driver side front suspension.
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Passenger side front suspension.
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QUESTION: We wrapped it up for the day and noticed this crack in the driver side grease boot. Is this going to be a problem?
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[egchewy79]

Yes, your going to want to replace the boot. I’m sure someone will chime in with the aftermarket parts number

[cheverett]

CENTER SECTION

Center section in. Very awkward getting it up into position. Floor jack was helpful in the end to steady it and shift it around to line up for the bolts. Stalled out on the rear end until we get a few POL bolts and nuts. Need to sort out the front ball joint grease boot tear before steering gets done. Planning on the e-brake next. Sounds like that can be a little tricky.

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[cheverett]

E-BRAKE

E-brake assembled and installed. Same issue as everyone with the handle unable to travel its full path when installed per the directions. We solved this by securing the front bent mount bracket to the fixed gear on the inside (toward trans tunnel) instead of outside and over the top of the fixed gear. This reversed the direction of the square shoulder carriage bolt and put the locknut toward the passenger cockpit. We cut out the aluminum panel over the nut and this allowed the front end of the e-brake to come out far enough to not have the handle get stuck on the wall in the down position as before. Thank you again to the forum for helping sort this out.

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[Railroad]

You might consider reversing the carriage head bolt for less interference near the cable clevis?
Nice job.

[nuhale]

Replace that boot. Just take out the nut and use a pickle fork to break the ball joint away from spindle. You can rent one from auto parts store or harbor freight has them for $10 or so (PN 63420). The replacement boots that I used are from energy suspension. The PN for the set is 5.13102G and the individual PN is 13009 for UCA and 13024 for LCA.

[cheverett]

STEERING

Steering rack went in a little tight. Initially we followed the directions to place driver side bolt first and then the passenger side. With the driver side bolt passed, the passenger side was twisted compared to the mount and we could not get any leverage on the rack to line up the tube to pass the bolt. We passed passenger side bolt first and then could get ahold of the rack input to twist the rack into the frame allowing the driver side bolt to get through.

Regarding the 53 1/16 inch tie rod end to end for a starting point before alignment noted in the directions - We put it there and it looked like a large toe out alignment. Any thoughts on this?
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NEW GREASE BOOT

Ordered a grease boot for an '87-'93 Mustang and replaced the torn one before working on steering. The wire ring on the original would not work and steel wire would not either. It is thicker material than the original. Seems to be keeping the grease contained with it snug over the edge of the ball joint and no wire at the base.
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[egchewy79]

Re tie rods, adjust them so they look close. you'll be adjusting the inner tie rods to get your final toe-in. for the grease boots, most order some poly ones from energy suspension

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ens-9-13101g?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAiAlrSPBhBaEiwAuLSDULzPQaXzI9mK0S-A5G9wQNp-KKTY8mVDSftnc60STWiOCtpfFLiGDBoCr_gQAvD_BwE

[cheverett]

Looking for some work to do and figured we could mount the heater/defroster in the firewall. The FF directions mention referring to "those" instructions with the heater unit. No instructions included there either. Looking around the forum but it's not really a highlight of any build thread I can find.

Where might I find instructions?

We are doing windshield wipers also but no glovebox. Probably going to mount a fuel pressure regulator up around the firewall also. Thank you for any guidance on this!!

[egchewy79]

go to factoryfive.com and look under the parts section. they have a bunch of additional instructions there, including those for the heater. just recognize that the template you print off is slightly off, so measure a couple of times prior to cutting your holes in the firewall. I think I had to move mine about a quarter inch to get the holes and pipes in the right place. also make sure you don't have interference between your heater and wiper motor.

[cheverett]

go to factoryfive.com and look under the parts section. they have a bunch of additional instructions there, including those for the heater. just recognize that the template you print off is slightly off, so measure a couple of times prior to cutting your holes in the firewall. I think I had to move mine about a quarter inch to get the holes and pipes in the right place. also make sure you don't have interference between your heater and wiper motor.

Found it! Thank you! Wiper and sway bar directions in there too.

[cheverett]

HEATER/DEFROSTER

Heater unit in place. Only challenge was a couple of the screws not being tight. The threads of the upper right screw are not catching the heater box plastic and turns loose in the hole. The lower left screw is at an angle and we could not get it to pass into the heater box plastic. Four other screws are tight and the unit is very snug on the firewall. Might get a slightly longer and thicker screw for the upper right hole though.

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[egchewy79]

I didn’t trust the screws that went directly into the plastic. I ended up putting some strips of aluminum with rivnuts on the inside of the heater core housing and attached with machine screws from the engine bay side

[cheverett]

I didn’t trust the screws that went directly into the plastic. I ended up putting some strips of aluminum with rivnuts on the inside of the heater core housing and attached with machine screws from the engine bay side

That is a great idea! Thanks!!

[cheverett]

WIRING HARNESS

Needed a fourth hole (1.25") through the driver front foot box for the front harness. We used 3 for the reservoir hoses. Thick aluminum. Drill was smoking.
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Front right corner of the fuse box mounting plate ran into the pedal box mount bolt. We used tin snips to take the corner off of it instead of including it in the mount bolt.
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Rear Harness in place.
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[egchewy79]

Chris,
Full disclosure here :). We only had to drill the 1" hole through the aluminum panel for the front brake reservoir hose. The black fixed front footbox wall portion had a 1.5 inch hole in it already. I don't think we will need anything else going through that hole? Thanks!
Chad

that middle hole is needed for your front wiring harness.

[cheverett]

that middle hole is needed for your front wiring harness.

Since we mistakenly used it for one of our 3 reservoir hoses, we just drilled that extra 1.25" one for the front harness. Thought about enlarging one of the 3 holes and passing the harness through with one of the hoses or put 2 hoses in one hole, but this worked well and is a nice direct path through the front foot box wall. Also, we did not have to mess with the hoses.

[egchewy79]

Since we mistakenly used it for one of our 3 reservoir hoses, we just drilled that extra 1.25" one for the front harness. Thought about enlarging one of the 3 holes and passing the harness through with one of the hoses or put 2 hoses in one hole, but this worked well and is a nice direct path through the front foot box wall. Also, we did not have to mess with the hoses.

gotcha, i was looking at an older post. thought i was up to date with your build but I was wrong. I see in your more recent pics now the wiring harness.

[cheverett]

gotcha, i was looking at an older post. thought i was up to date with your build but I was wrong. I see in your more recent pics now the wiring harness.

I really appreciate the thoughts though. Input and opinions on the forum have helped us a lot already.

[cheverett]

FRONT BRAKES

Brake pads delivered today so we got the front brakes on.
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WINDSHIELD WIPER MOTOR

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[CaptB]

What heater are you using?

[Fixit]

Welcome to the asylum!
If you're on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/939137836829996)...
There's another member here in Lake Mills who's at the paint stage of his MkIV, and another south of Beer City doing a Hotrod Pickup.

[cheverett]

What heater are you using?

It's the heater that came with the complete kit.

[cheverett]

Welcome to the asylum!
If you're on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/939137836829996)...
There's another member here in Lake Mills who's at the paint stage of his MkIV, and another south of Beer City doing a Hotrod Pickup.

Thanks! Yeah, we need to eventually think about where and how the painting will happen.

[cheverett]

FRONT SWAYBAR
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ACCELERATOR PEDAL/THROTTLE CABLE
Went with the Lokar cable. Nice solid attachment to the pedal arm.
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[cheverett]

front brake lines

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[cheverett]

QUESTION: IRS upper control arm parts? I think I am missing a 1.25 mm nut for each arm that goes on the adjuster bung?

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[cheverett]

IRS/REAR BRAKES/REAR SWAY BAR
Big weekend after a few missing parts arrived. Every frame mount for each upper and lower control arm needed either filing down of the pivot sleeve in the bushing or a crowbar widening of the frame mount. Spindles and hubs were previously prepared. Brakes went on well. Rear brake lines next.

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[cheverett]

PLEASE HELP
Finally got our 427 BluePrint engine. I hope we just need different engine mounts. The brackets used to secure the engine in the crate are still attached to the 2 vertical holes in the engine. There is no way the provided mount brackets from FF will attach to this engine. Looks like we need mounts that install vertically into the engine and then still fit the 45 degree plate in the FF chassis. Or is this a much bigger issue?
Thank you for any help!!

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[mladen]

Those metal bars are only temporary, to keep it in the crate. Remove them, but keep the bolts. I actually endend up using those to mount the brackets as the ones with the brackets were too long and bottomed out. You'll also need to notch the mounts so they sit flush. You can see this in my build thread linked below.

[cheverett]

This is extremely helpful! Would you agree that the mount I have in my hand in my first photo is not the correct one?

Looks like yours has the plate for attaching to the chassis at a 45 degree angle to the vertical mount holes that go into the block. Mine has 3 holes on the mount all in the same plane as the plate that goes on the chassis. I think I have the wrong mounts from FF.

[edwardb]

Agreed you have the wrong mounts. Those appear to be Mod Motor/Coyote mounts. You need ones that look the ones in this picture from one of my SBF builds. Sorry it's the best one I could find. At the time they were Energy Suspension 4-1122G. Should be what you need but definitely check to be sure.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Engine/.highres/IMG_2408_zps8c01d764.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds (https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Engine/.highres/IMG_2408_zps8c01d764.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)

[mladen]

Yup. I was on my phone and missed that part for sure. Wrong mounts for a Sbf.

Edit: This is it https://www.factoryfiveparts.com/13083-polyurethane-engine-and-trans-mount-kit-302-351/

[cheverett]

Thank you very much! Easy solution we were hoping for.

[cheverett]

Master Cylinder Question:

Noticed a few drops of brake fluid in the middle of our driver footbox floor. Fittings are dry. Fluid coming from the rear brake rubber boot around our master cylinder pushrod. There is also fluid in our front brake pushrod boot and the clutch master cylinder boot when we pull them off the bore and look inside them. Those two are just not dripping at all.

Is there an acceptable amount of fluid in them?
Or did we wreck 3 master cylinders somehow?

Really want to sort this out before we put the body on.
Thank you for any help!

[zarnold]

Hmm..., not sure what would have happened. But there should be no fluid collecting in the boot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQuawQvKSQQ).

[edwardb]

Agreed, you shouldn't find fluid inside the boot. I had something similar happen during my Coupe build. Noticed brake fluid drips on the cockpit floor sometime after installation and bleeding. Pulled the boot back and it was full of fluid. Rather than replace, Wilwood sells a rebuild kit for around $30 so gave that a try. Mine was https://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderProdAcc?itemno=260-10514 for a .75 MC. May/may not be the one that fits yours. Upon disassembly, I found what appeared to be a molding void on one of the original O-rings. Back together with the rebuild parts and hasn't leaked now starting driving season number four. What's strange to me about your situation is all three leaking. Hard to imagine three out of three defective. Not sure how they could be mistreated to damage.

[cheverett]

Agreed, you shouldn't find fluid inside the boot. I had something similar happen during my Coupe build. Noticed brake fluid drips on the cockpit floor sometime after installation and bleeding. Pulled the boot back and it was full of fluid. Rather than replace, Wilwood sells a rebuild kit for around $30 so gave that a try. Mine was https://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderProdAcc?itemno=260-10514 for a .75 MC. May/may not be the one that fits yours. Upon disassembly, I found what appeared to be a molding void on one of the original O-rings. Back together with the rebuild parts and hasn't leaked now starting driving season number four. What's strange to me about your situation is all three leaking. Hard to imagine three out of three defective. Not sure how they could be mistreated to damage.

Thank you for thoughts. How are all 3 leaking is the frustrating question?
1) It's been a long time now, but I wonder if we did too much while they were empty (before bleeding) getting our pedals in a good starting spot and pushing on pedals at that stage to wreck the seals.
2) Is there any problem with pressure bleeding the system with a cap on the reservoir at 15 psi? That is how we bled all brakes and clutch MC/line? Seemed to work great.
3) The biggest leak is the rear brake MC and we wondered if the pushrod was traveling to far (with the balance bar set-up) and wrecking something?
4) Maybe the same for the clutch MC - pushrod traveling too far? But we measured displacement of the pushrod with full pedal movement and it is just shy of 1 inch
5) The 3 push rods look to be well in line with the bore, but wondering if we need to adjust the balance bar (tighter at those big washers) to prevent any wiggling of straying of the pushrod off line?

These are the only things I can think of on how we might have wrecked 3 MC's.
happy to replace them at this point if we can just figure out how not to have the next set leak too.

Thank you for any other thoughts you might have on this!

[edwardb]

Thank you for thoughts. How are all 3 leaking is the frustrating question?
1) It's been a long time now, but I wonder if we did too much while they were empty (before bleeding) getting our pedals in a good starting spot and pushing on pedals at that stage to wreck the seals.
2) Is there any problem with pressure bleeding the system with a cap on the reservoir at 15 psi? That is how we bled all brakes and clutch MC/line? Seemed to work great.
3) The biggest leak is the rear brake MC and we wondered if the pushrod was traveling to far (with the balance bar set-up) and wrecking something?
4) Maybe the same for the clutch MC - pushrod traveling too far? But we measured displacement of the pushrod with full pedal movement and it is just shy of 1 inch
5) The 3 push rods look to be well in line with the bore, but wondering if we need to adjust the balance bar (tighter at those big washers) to prevent any wiggling of straying of the pushrod off line?

These are the only things I can think of on how we might have wrecked 3 MC's.
happy to replace them at this point if we can just figure out how not to have the next set leak too.

Thank you for any other thoughts you might have on this!

1. I've always wondered about this. I'm sure the MC's leave the factory with some type of assembly lube. But can you damage them by overworking before the brake fluid is put in? Maybe, but I really don't know. I've personally tried to limit how much I press the pedals before bleeding. But that mainly just means not goofing around. Hard to believe normal movement during assembly could damage them.

2. 15 PSI is pretty high. The instructions I had from CNC when I started pressure bleeding talked about 5 PSI, which has always been what I use as a guideline and they bleed just fine at that pressure. Could 15 PSI damage something? I don't know. Maybe.

3. The MC's have limit stops at both ends of their travel. Don't think you could damage anything because of that.

4. Same answer as #3.

5. Don't mess with the Wilwood describing spacing which I assume you have to their spec. It's a proven formula that won't damage the MC's and does what the system is designed to do.

They're really easy to take apart and see if there's anything obvious. Just a snap ring under the rubber boot and it all comes apart. There's an O-ring on each end of the piston that's maybe where the failures are. The rebuild kit includes every single part except the outside housing. So way cheaper than buying new if it comes to that.

[zarnold]

Any luck figuring out what went wrong with the master cylinders? I've read that some people have them fail in the 500 to 700 mile range. I've also read that people received units with scratch's and grooves cut in the cylinder. I wouldn't think that you'd be that unlucky though. Maybe taking one apart would give you some insight.

[cheverett]

Any luck figuring out what went wrong with the master cylinders? I've read that some people have them fail in the 500 to 700 mile range. I've also read that people received units with scratch's and grooves cut in the cylinder. I wouldn't think that you'd be that unlucky though. Maybe taking one apart would give you some insight.

Have not taken the MC's off yet.

I did talk to a Wilwood rep and he did not like that we used a pressure bleeder. I do wonder if moving the pedal (and pushrod) while under any pressure from the pressure bleeding tank could wreck anything? Otherwise, he speculated that maybe the seals dried out over time if they were older and sitting around for a while.

FF emailed back and said to not use the wrong fluid (I was using DOT 3 as directed) and make sure pushrods are not at an angle (they are not).

I have 3 new ones and will try this again without the pressure bleeding. Will take apart the worst one and see if anything looks wrong.

[edwardb]

Have not taken the MC's off yet.

I did talk to a Wilwood rep and he did not like that we used a pressure bleeder. I do wonder if moving the pedal (and pushrod) while under any pressure from the pressure bleeding tank could wreck anything? Otherwise, he speculated that maybe the seals dried out over time if they were older and sitting around for a while.

FF emailed back and said to not use the wrong fluid (I was using DOT 3 as directed) and make sure pushrods are not at an angle (they are not).

I have 3 new ones and will try this again without the pressure bleeding. Will take apart the worst one and see if anything looks wrong.

If pressure bleeding, you should never move the pedals while under pressure. If you did, plus the 15 PSI you mentioned earlier, agree the seals probably took a beating. I've used pressure bleeding on numerous builds. At around 5 PSI as I mentioned before. Has always worked with little/no fuss or damage. Many others have the same experience. Nothing to be afraid of.

[cheverett]

If pressure bleeding, you should never move the pedals while under pressure. If you did, plus the 15 PSI you mentioned earlier, agree the seals probably took a beating. I've used pressure bleeding on numerous builds. At around 5 PSI as I mentioned before. Has always worked with little/no fuss or damage. Many others have the same experience. Nothing to be afraid of.

Thank you again! My 16 year-old son and I are learning the hard way on some of this. We will be fixing the master cylinders, but for now have been learning a lot about carburetors. We adjusted the floats (they were very high) successfully and actually got the engine started but it won't stay running. With more carburetor adjustments and learning coming it would be a lot easier if our tachometer functioned properly.

Our tachometer will not zero out. Sits at 1800 rpm with key off or on. When doing the calibration sequence for our type of coil the tach needle will move smaller intervals through the first few steps for each button push and then move the normal amount right on 5,6,7,8. But won't go below 1800. Tried unplugging it. Gauge bad? Wiring harness issue?

Thank you again!!

[Mike.Bray]

If it's a Speedhut tach you can remove it from the dash, unscrew the lens cap to expose the face & needle, and manually move the needle to zero. I had to do this to mine as it was at 900 instead of zero. I think I posted about it somewhere. Speedhut even has a video on this.

[cheverett]

QUESTION: CARBURETOR OR FUEL LINE ISSUE??

(Mechanical fuel pump using -6AN PTFE braided line with post-pump filter at fuel rail to Holley Street Avenger carburetor)

Engine ran well last couple nights as we have made choke, float, idle mixture screw and fast idle screw adjustments. Looked at everything last night after cooled down a bit and front carb bowl is empty and we definitely have fuel in our oil. Rear bowl looks good. Both bowls were good at low end of viewing window when checked while initially running.

Did we vaporize some fuel heading into the fuel rail? I did not look at the carb window while at peak temperature. Are our filter and fuel line close enough to heater hose or anything else to cause this? See photos. We have been leaving the heater valve open while running to allow flow through heater hoses and get any air out. The filter and fuel line do not touch anything hot but probably 1/4 inch from heater hose. Before we change our heater hose return route with a 90 degree barb and move our fuel filter down closer to the pump, I am wondering if this could be more likely something else within the carburetor.

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[Railroad]

Really do not know where to start. Have not read back, except where you adjusted the carb.
Why do you think the front bowl is empty. Sight holes used to set fuel below hole. Had to rock car to see fuel come out. I would think clear sight holes use the same setting.
You probably got some gas in the oil with rich choke, wrong jet adjustments, pumping gas pedal, etc.
You do not really need a tach to adj carb.
With choke fully disengaged, fast idle screw should be clear of the fast idle cam. Set the idle speed screw to the desired idle. You know what is too fast or slow.
A vacuum gauge is good for setting air fuel adjustments. Highest vacuum at normal idle speed.
No need in trying to adjust it, if you cannot get your rpm down to a normal idle.
If the choke is off, fast idle not engaged, idle speed screw backed off, and you still have a fast idle, disconnect the throttle linkage.
If still too fast start looking for a vacuum leak. Most common issue is pcv valve. Either pinch the line closed or plug the line.
Short of having an uncapped vacuum source, you should be able to adjust idle speed with the idle speed screw on the drivers side, which contacts the carb throttle shaft lever.
Do not hard bottom out the air fuel adjustment screws, but start about 1 full turn off seat.
Adjust either air fuel jet for max idle smoothness and rpm. If you have an increase above a good idle level, correct with idle speed screw. Do the same with the other side of the carb and set idle speed as desired.
Hope all that makes sense. Post what you find and do, I will be glad to help.
good luck,

[cheverett]

Really do not know where to start. Have not read back, except where you adjusted the carb.
Why do you think the front bowl is empty. Sight holes used to set fuel below hole. Had to rock car to see fuel come out. I would think clear sight holes use the same setting.
You probably got some gas in the oil with rich choke, wrong jet adjustments, pumping gas pedal, etc.
You do not really need a tach to adj carb.
With choke fully disengaged, fast idle screw should be clear of the fast idle cam. Set the idle speed screw to the desired idle. You know what is too fast or slow.
A vacuum gauge is good for setting air fuel adjustments. Highest vacuum at normal idle speed.
No need in trying to adjust it, if you cannot get your rpm down to a normal idle.
If the choke is off, fast idle not engaged, idle speed screw backed off, and you still have a fast idle, disconnect the throttle linkage.
If still too fast start looking for a vacuum leak. Most common issue is pcv valve. Either pinch the line closed or plug the line.
Short of having an uncapped vacuum source, you should be able to adjust idle speed with the idle speed screw on the drivers side, which contacts the carb throttle shaft lever.
Do not hard bottom out the air fuel adjustment screws, but start about 1 full turn off seat.
Adjust either air fuel jet for max idle smoothness and rpm. If you have an increase above a good idle level, correct with idle speed screw. Do the same with the other side of the carb and set idle speed as desired.
Hope all that makes sense. Post what you find and do, I will be glad to help.
good luck,

Thank you. Clear window sight holes had fuel level at bottom edge past couple nights when running. Rear bowl still does but the front bowl has not a bit of fuel splashing around and the float is visibly very low in the window. We had no fuel in the oil after running the night before and both bowls were at the bottom edge of the window where we had set them last week. However, an hour after running last night - no fuel in front bowl and a lot of fuel in oil.

[Mike.Bray]

QUESTION: CARBURETOR OR FUEL LINE ISSUE??

(Mechanical fuel pump using -6AN PTFE braided line with post-pump filter at fuel rail to Holley Street Avenger carburetor)

Engine ran well last couple nights as we have made choke, float, idle mixture screw and fast idle screw adjustments. Looked at everything last night after cooled down a bit and front carb bowl is empty and we definitely have fuel in our oil. Rear bowl looks good. Both bowls were good at low end of viewing window when checked while initially running.

Did we vaporize some fuel heading into the fuel rail? I did not look at the carb window while at peak temperature. Are our filter and fuel line close enough to heater hose or anything else to cause this? See photos. We have been leaving the heater valve open while running to allow flow through heater hoses and get any air out. The filter and fuel line do not touch anything hot but probably 1/4 inch from heater hose. Before we change our heater hose return route with a 90 degree barb and move our fuel filter down closer to the pump, I am wondering if this could be more likely something else within the carburetor.

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Have you tried plugging into the carburetor to see what the data says?

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/34559423959684575766142651227595185626544093na.jpg

[Railroad]

Front needle and seat, might be leaking, allowing too much fuel into the bowl and out the boosters into engine and oil.
Are you seeing a higher oil level, or fuel smell in the oil. The smell is not too much of an issue. If you have raised the level, you will need to change oil.
You might be percolating fuel into the engine due to fuel line heat, but not something that occurs that often.
Do what rerouting and isolating you can and watch the boosters in the primaries and see if fuel is dripping, while idling and after it sits and heat soaks.
It takes a lot of fuel to increase the oil level.
Seems I read, you have a manual fuel pump, should be good. If not manual, check your fuel pressure.
You can pull the front needle and seat, without taking the bowl off. Back it all the way out and check for trash. Reset the level and give it a try.

good luck,

[cheverett]

ADJUSTABLE DRIVER SEAT

We took a step away from trying to figure out our carburetor issue today and solved the 6 inch height difference between my son and me.
Nice product from Detroit Speed gives 7 inches of options for the driver's seat position.

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