Long Time Lurker

[NY_RACER_XXX]

New guy here!!! Race car guy, fabricator, automotive designer, computer guy, electronic noodler, amongst other things!!!

Probably like most, been thinking about it a Loooong time... Pretty far off from pulling the trigger, but really thinking seriously about it.

I've searched a lot, gathered a lot of info, I'm sure there's a ton more to learn.

Been thinking about a basic kit, small block, or possibly Gen III Hemi, most likely 3 link, maybe my own design, maybe build the control arms and sway bars.

How is FFR about alacarte? Pick and choose what pieces I need or want?

Anyway, thanks for having me, look forward to the conversations...

Chris R.

[bobl]

You sound like a perfect candidate for a base kit. Then you can fab whatever you want. Going with a Hemi you'd have to fab everything anyway. I don't see why you couldn't do it with your skill set. I've seen them with BBC, SBC, the whole array of Fords and even a Kasse Boss 9.

[NY_RACER_XXX]

Thanks, with a Tremec behind it, line up transmission, square up the motor, shouldn't be a huge deal... I'm a Mopar guy, was thinking of building a restomod, I can't see starting with a $5k rust bucket... I could go either way with the motor, just thinking with a cam, I could have 425hp in a 5.7 Hemi, takes quit a bit to get that from a 302.

[ggunter]

A 347 is fairly easy to get the much power and everything fits with no fab work. But if your a Mopar guy and just wants a Hemi in a Cobra I get it.

[edwardb]

I can't see starting with a $5k rust bucket...

Welcome. I personally haven't seen one of these with a Hemi. But as we say, your build. :o The quote I referenced sounds like think donor builds are the norm. While that's the history of Factory Five in earlier years, is becoming less and less the case. I don't have any statistics, but I'd bet the majority of builds for several years now are new builds without a donor. At least that's what I observe on the forum plus in person. Many also assume the base kit is only for a donor build. That's not the case either. It can be a good choice if you have enough experience to pick your own parts instead of getting the complete kit. I've done two base kit non-donor builds.

[GoDadGo]

Welcome, Aboard!

No Matter What Driveline You Choose, We All Know It Will Be Cool!

Going off of the well-traveled path will require some re-engineering along the way, but it sounds like you are way ahead of the game on that subject.

[NY_RACER_XXX]

I kind of observed that reading through the forums, probably because the pool for donor cars is becoming more shallow, Fox bodies are worth a few bucks, who want's a wrecked car parked in the driveway, and it's probably a nicer build with all new parts. But no doubt if you can find a donor for a good price, it will be a less expensive build.

I was just looking at using a stamped lower control arm.... umm NO! and if you upgrade that, you're going to go with the spindle... Used rack? no! So basically the whole front end is not usable. 4 link I'm sure works ok, sounds like the 3 link works better, that's been my experience also, so besides the axle, the rear suspension is not used. So what's left? Motor tranny, electronics, dash, I'm sure there's plenty of small parts, but if you go with classic gauges, maybe carb or late model EFI, then there's basically no point in a donor.

Thanks for you insight....

CR

[NY_RACER_XXX]

Thank you for the kind words.

That's kind of my thing, to do something a little different is what motivates me, and the challenges that it requires is the learning process...

My mantra is: "There are no mistakes in fabrication, only creative opportunities".

CR

[GoDadGo]

My mantra is: "There are no mistakes in fabrication, only Creative Opportunities".
CR

Just know if you drop an engine in that has the distributor in the back will likely require that you move the entire driveline forward to clear the body.
There is plenty of room to do it, but placing the engine in such a manner that your oil pan is tucked up tight can create hood clearance issues.
The best thing about scooting the driveline forward is that it greatly improves the driveshaft angle and driveshaft length.
Shown below is my "Dark Side Ride" shortly after we dropped the engine in it.

https://youtu.be/_wnHDNgnNqs

Good Luck & Happy Creative Opportunities!

[NY_RACER_XXX]

Thank you for the info.. There isn't a distributor on the Gen III Hemi, tone ring on the crank and either a full EFI controller or I have a stand alone MSD box to control the ignition and a 4brl intake for either a carb or a throttle body EFI.

I'm wondering about the physical size of the motor though, that could be an issue, but they do squeeze an FE in there, so I imagine there's enough room.

CR

[NY_RACER_XXX]

A 347 is fairly easy to get the much power and everything fits with no fab work. But if your a Mopar guy and just wants a Hemi in a Cobra I get it.
Agreed, but we're talking about swapping out the whole rotating assembly, versus a stock one. And at that point the GT40 heads would be a limiting factor, so now your bolting on aluminum heads, it's getting expensive.

That's where the HEMI shines, the heads work well, cam and springs is all that's needed, 425hp, easy peasy!!!

CR

[CobraboyDR]

Thanks, with a Tremec behind it, line up transmission, square up the motor, shouldn't be a huge deal... I'm a Mopar guy, was thinking of building a restomod, I can't see starting with a $5k rust bucket... I could go either way with the motor, just thinking with a cam, I could have 425hp in a 5.7 Hemi, takes quit a bit to get that from a 302.You can easily get that and over 100 more with a 351 stroker (427ci) that needs no real modification to the kit.

[CobraboyDR]

Thank you for the info.. There isn't a distributor on the Gen III Hemi, tone ring on the crank and either a full EFI controller or I have a stand alone MSD box to control the ignition and a 4brl intake for either a carb or a throttle body EFI.

I'm wondering about the physical size of the motor though, that could be an issue, but they do squeeze an FE in there, so I imagine there's enough room.

CRThe FE is a very tight squeeze at 27" wide and 29" tall.

A Hemi is 2" wider and 3" taller.

It would take major mods to do a Hemi. Major.

But, like a SOHC 427 in a Cobra, I suppose if there is a burning will, there is always a way.

Good luck!

[Avalanche325]

Agreed, but we're talking about swapping out the whole rotating assembly, versus a stock one. And at that point the GT40 heads would be a limiting factor, so now your bolting on aluminum heads, it's getting expensive.

That's where the HEMI shines, the heads work well, cam and springs is all that's needed, 425hp, easy peasy!!!

CR

The first thing that needs to be done with any SBF if you are looking for power is to throw the factory heads in the trash. I agree with you there. I have a 347 that has 500hp.

A couple nice things about an SBF:

1. No custom parts were needed. Sounds like you could fabricate headers, mounts, etc
2. Packaging. The SBF is physically small. Easy to work on in the car. It is also pretty light, especially with aluminum heads and intake. Remember, the whole idea of a Cobra is light weight and big power. How much does the Hemi weigh? Check dimensions, including how the oil pan will sit. They get Coyotes in, which are HUGE.
3. People expect a Cobra to have a Ford engine. Other brands can hurt value or limit your market if you decide to sell. Just be aware up front. Think of a Cuda with a SBF, same kind of thing.

If you are a full on fabricator......go full DIY on the frame and buy the body. I saw a full ground up build with a Lexus V8 once.

[NY_RACER_XXX]

The FE is a very tight squeeze at 27" wide and 29" tall.

A Hemi is 2" wider and 3" taller.

It would take major mods to do a Hemi. Major.

But, like a SOHC 427 in a Cobra, I suppose if there is a burning will, there is always a way.

Good luck!

Are you talking 426 Gen II Elephant, or the Gen III 5.7? Gen III is physically the same size as a small block Mopar, so I think you talking about the Elephant...

[NY_RACER_XXX]

The first thing that needs to be done with any SBF if you are looking for power is to throw the factory heads in the trash. I agree with you there. I have a 347 that has 500hp.

A couple nice things about an SBF:

1. No custom parts were needed. Sounds like you could fabricate headers, mounts, etc
2. Packaging. The SBF is physically small. Easy to work on in the car. It is also pretty light, especially with aluminum heads and intake. Remember, the whole idea of a Cobra is light weight and big power. How much does the Hemi weigh? Check dimensions, including how the oil pan will sit. They get Coyotes in, which are HUGE.
3. People expect a Cobra to have a Ford engine. Other brands can hurt value or limit your market if you decide to sell. Just be aware up front. Think of a Cuda with a SBF, same kind of thing.

If you are a full on fabricator......go full DIY on the frame and buy the body. I saw a full ground up build with a Lexus V8 once.

I'm looking for a project, not looking to reinvent the wheel, FF has it figured out...

Yes I'm a fabricator, I have the hat and tee shirt and everything!!! :)

Can't argue with people may expect a Ford plant in it, but consider this; you can buy in a wrecking yard, a 700HP+ engine complete, all that is needed is the stand alone harness and computer to operate it, in a package as small as a small block. And you can also get a new in the crate HellaPhant that's 1000hp!!!

It is what it is, some people like apples, some peaches, Shelby's philosophy was, big motor little car, if he had an in with mopar, it would have been a 426 Nascar motor...

Sorry, not trying to rile anybody, just looking to do something different, for my own purposes...

[CobraboyDR]

Are you talking 426 Gen II Elephant, or the Gen III 5.7? Gen III is physically the same size as a small block Mopar, so I think you talking about the Elephant...There is only one True Hemi.

Vintage.

The rest live off the True Hemi reputation.

But onions vary, all vegetables.

[NY_RACER_XXX]

There is only one True Hemi.

Vintage.

The rest live off the True Hemi reputation.

But onions vary, all vegetables.

Actually, as the name implies, there have been 3 versions so far, and by definition, they are all hemispherical combustion chamber engines, very distinctive design.

So what you are implying about engine size does not apply in my case... Might be cool to put the elephant in there, definitely not worth the trouble!!!

[CobraboyDR]

Actually, as the name implies, there have been 3 versions so far, and by definition, they are all hemispherical combustion chamber engines, very distinctive design.

So what you are implying about engine size does not apply in my case... Might be cool to put the elephant in there, definitely not worth the trouble!!!Okey Dokey.

The Ford Boss 429 was also a "hemi" if you want to parse combustion chambers.

Generally "Hemi" is a Chrysler trademark, founded on the success of the "elephant" you described.

Hell, all the DOHC XK Jaguar engines were "hemi's"...well over a decade before Chrysler built a "hemi."

[NY_RACER_XXX]

Okey Dokey.

The Ford Boss 429 was also a "hemi" if you want to parse combustion chambers.

Generally "Hemi" is a Chrysler trademark, founded on the success of the "elephant" you described.

Hell, all the DOHC XK Jaguar engines were "hemi's"...well over a decade before Chrysler built a "hemi."

Chrysler HEMI came out of WWII aircraft engines and the technology was carried over into the automotive side in the form of their first V8s in 1951. They been at it a while.

[nucjd19]

I have absolutely nothing of value to add to the discussion regarding Hemi's as I know nothing about them but I sure hope you do a build thread if and when you do this. It would be so interesting to see this get put together. Was going to add that I have a 347 stroker too that hits the HP range you wanted so with a little work the 302 can get you there. But it sounds like that is not the path you want to take. I get it. Everyone has their own vision and goal with these rigs. Good luck NY!

[NY_RACER_XXX]

I have absolutely nothing of value to add to the discussion regarding Hemi's as I know nothing about them but I sure hope you do a build thread if and when you do this. It would be so interesting to see this get put together. Was going to add that I have a 347 stroker too that hits the HP range you wanted so with a little work the 302 can get you there. But it sounds like that is not the path you want to take. I get it. Everyone has their own vision and goal with these rigs. Good luck NY!

Thank you so much for the encouragement, very early planning at this point, sounds to me very feasible, I was really just looking at costs and outside the kit, the biggest nut is the drivetrain. The 302 being such a universal motor for so many years, the parts are readily available and relatively cheap, hard to beat, but they get expensive when you want good power from them.

CR

[CobraboyDR]

Chrysler HEMI came out of WWII aircraft engines and the technology was carried over into the automotive side in the form of their first V8s in 1951. They been at it a while.Well, if you want to climb into your rage-googled WayBack machine, the first "hemi" was in a 1905 Pipe, a Belgian automobile, and Fiat put a "hemi" into a Grand Prix sled in 1907.

Too bad neither Pipe nor Fiat trademarked "hemi" at the time. Can you imagine a Fiat commercial when the two Bubba's in a hooptie pick-'em-up truck pull up to a Fiat 850 and ask "That thing got a Hemi?"

Many manufacturers have been "at" hemi's for a while. The fact is they are expensive and clunky large to build for commercial applications because of awkward valve configuration vs. common OHV configurations. Like the Ford SOHC FE...which was also a "hemi."

[NY_RACER_XXX]

Well, if you want to climb into your rage-googled WayBack machine, the first "hemi" was in a 1905 Pipe, a Belgian automobile, and Fiat put a "hemi" into a Grand Prix sled in 1907.

Too bad neither Pipe nor Fiat trademarked "hemi" at the time. Can you imagine a Fiat commercial when the two Bubba's in a hooptie pick-'em-up truck pull up to a Fiat 850 and ask "That thing got a Hemi?"

Many manufacturers have been "at" hemi's for a while. The fact is they are expensive and clunky large to build for commercial applications because of awkward valve configuration vs. common OHV configurations. Like the Ford SOHC FE...which was also a "hemi."
Well, Fiat actually owns the HEMI now...��

Again, you're talking Elephant motor, and then I would have to agree. The 5.7, is a different animal, that's what I'm talking about..

CR

[NY_RACER_XXX]

Soooo, more searching I see that FFR, has instructions for installing a Gen III Hemi in the Hot Rod. So I wonder how different the chassis' are??? Looks like it uses the same mounting lugs on the chassis..