View Full Version : Car died cruising at 55 mph - possible cause?
Yesterday afternoon I was cruising at 55 mph and the car just died. I was able to restart it by turning the key off and then back to the run position and popping the clutch. I suspect something electrical in the ignition; possibly the coil. Any thoughts from the experts?
Jeff Kleiner
09-19-2021, 09:47 AM
Ignition switch is a possibility.
Jeff
Ignition switch is a possibility.
Jeff
Thanks, Jeff. I thought of that, too. I have a spare on the shelf.
Dave
chmhasy
09-19-2021, 10:11 AM
Years ago I was driving a 1982 honda prelude and the exact same thing happen to me. Turns out if you have a bunch of stuff hanging off your key chain, that extra weight will wear out the the ignition switch where you will have these issues. I now have a key chain where I can remove each individual key for each car. so the only thing hanging from the ignition switch is the key in the ignition.
Years ago I was driving a 1982 honda prelude and the exact same thing happen to me. Turns out if you have a bunch of stuff hanging off your key chain, that extra weight will wear out the the ignition switch where you will have these issues. I now have a key chain where I can remove each individual key for each car. so the only thing hanging from the ignition switch is the key in the ignition.
I just have the one key so weight isn't going to be the cause, but the switches have a dubious reputation. :rolleyes:
Derald Rice
09-19-2021, 03:07 PM
A bad TFM module will have the same symptoms.
A bad TFM module will have the same symptoms.
I'm not sure what that is?
Derald Rice
09-19-2021, 03:24 PM
looks like I gave it a bad name. It is a TFI ( Thick Film Ignition ) module, and depending what distributor you are using, you may not have one.
here is a link
http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/TFI.htm
Jeff Kleiner
09-19-2021, 03:50 PM
Papa Dave doesn’t have a TFI module.
Jeff
So, could my stall be caused by coolant coming out of the water pump and hitting the belt and pullys and splattered all over the alternator and air cleaner and pretty much everything on the front of the engine? :o
Geoff H
09-19-2021, 04:12 PM
I had a similar issue. Mine turned out to be the distributor wires where they exit the housing. The plastic coupler that holds them in place in the housing but away from the the edges of the hole dropped out of place. Seemed to allow it to create an interruption where the car would just cut out. But then refire when the movement stopped.
cob427sc
09-19-2021, 05:48 PM
I would suspect the ignition switch or related wiring. I don't believe its the ignition coil as they usually work or fail (occaisonal issues at high RPM is another tell talesign).
AC Bill
09-19-2021, 06:26 PM
So, could my stall be caused by coolant coming out of the water pump and hitting the belt and pullys and splattered all over the alternator and air cleaner and pretty much everything on the front of the engine? :o
The engine should keep running even in a heavy downpour, so that being the cause, is questionable. Perhaps if enough was ingested via the air intake..
NA5KAR
09-19-2021, 06:42 PM
I'm still in the build phase, and I posted about my first start ending in the engine shutting down. Happened the second start a week later too. I have a Sniper and external Holley fuel pump. A buddy came over and started testing the wiring. He found that the fuel pump relay was not making a great connection. We changed the relay and the car started. Ran great for a long while. Re started several times. When I shake the bad relay, I hear and feel it rattle. Maybe check your fuel pump relay.
I probably should stay out of this conversation as my drivetrain is completely different. But, I'm drawn to this particular problem. In my simple brain, it has to be fuel or ignition. But if you were able to restart it (immediately???), then fuel doesn't really make any sense. I would think a fuel blockage wouldn't let go that quickly, or it would come back pretty quickly. So it has to be ignition / power. What I wonder is if this is a case of some wiring connection (ignition-related) has come loose thanks to vibration such that if it moves just right it loses connection? Can you replicate (or have you replicated) this problem?
I probably should stay out of this conversation as my drivetrain is completely different. But, I'm drawn to this particular problem. In my simple brain, it has to be fuel or ignition. But if you were able to restart it (immediately???), then fuel doesn't really make any sense. I would think a fuel blockage wouldn't let go that quickly, or it would come back pretty quickly. So it has to be ignition / power. What I wonder is if this is a case of some wiring connection (ignition-related) has come loose thanks to vibration such that if it moves just right it loses connection? Can you replicate (or have you replicated) this problem?
It has only happened once. When it died, I pushed the clutch in and tried to start it with the starter, but nothing happened, so I turned the key off and tried again with the same result. Finally, I put the key in the on position and dumped the clutch at about 45 mph still in 5th gear and it fired up. I drove it the rest of the way home with no problem and it started normally after shutting it off at home.
AC Bill
09-19-2021, 07:01 PM
[QUOTE=Al_C;469195So it has to be ignition / power. [/QUOTE]
As mentioned, the FFR ignition switch have had known issues for years. Quality is quite poor.
I will swap out the switch since I have a new one. It's easy to get at. I'm going to focus on the water pump first. With the March accessory setup, it's going to be a big job.
You didn't have this issue until you installed the new FF5 steering wheel center hub emblem. Coincidence? I don't think so. :cool:
You didn't have this issue until you installed the new FF5 steering wheel center hub emblem. Coincidence? I don't think so. :cool:
That's got to be it! Guess I better swap them.
So, when you tried to restart it the starter did not engage? If so, I would highly suspect the switch or possibly the main power to the switch being intermittent.
So, when you tried to restart it the starter did not engage? If so, I would highly suspect the switch or possibly the main power to the switch being intermittent.
Thanks, Bob -- I agree.
svassh
09-20-2021, 08:01 AM
I spent all day Saturday troubleshooting a similar issue, unfortunately mine would not restart. I have a MSD RTR distributor that has built in ignition module. I added a MSD 6AL-2 programmable box to allow me to program the timing curve as I couldn't get it quite right for the Webers with the mechanical advance.
Got everything working great, timing curve set. Out for first drive, 1.5 miles from home I hit the gas and was thrown back in my seat. WOW that was sweet never had that kind of accelleration before. Shifted to 4th and coasted down to 45mph. Next thing I know car is dead and won't restart so coasted off to a side road. It was then I realized my joy ride was without my cell phone. Walked it home for my truck and tools but no luck. Had to have it towed home.
Tried new coil but both coils checked out with good resistance, good power everywhere needed, ground etc. I have isolated my issue to the distributor no longer firing the 'electronic equivalent' of points so coil never fires. New distributor on order, hopefully back on the road next weekend for Lonestar Nationals Good Guys show.
Desert Cobra
09-20-2021, 12:23 PM
Here are several problems I have encountered: Too many keys on key fob turns off ignition; you think fuel correct but it starves when accelerating; short at distributor or loose high voltage lead from coil to cap not fully seated. Cut off switch faulty or key isn't working correctly; roll over kill switch faulty (FFR). Safety switch on clutch faulty. Nothing worse than an intermittent electrical fault. Where is LUCAS when you need him.;)
Here are several problems I have encountered: Too many keys on key fob turns off ignition; you think fuel correct but it starves when accelerating; short at distributor or loose high voltage lead from coil to cap not fully seated. Cut off switch faulty or key isn't working correctly; roll over kill switch faulty (FFR). Safety switch on clutch faulty. Nothing worse than an intermittent electrical fault. Where is LUCAS when you need him.;)
It didn't act like a fuel issue at all. I was driving along and it was like I just turned the key off. My battery is fully charged and I checked the connections at the battery and at the starter; all tight. Voltage shows ~14 volts when running and ~13.3 volts with key in ACC position. Just the FFR key, nothing else on the key ring. No battery cut-off switch in the car. Is the clutch safety switch even a possible concern if the car is running? If I understand the circuit, it only affects the starter trigger, correct?
Jeff Kleiner
09-20-2021, 02:47 PM
Dave,
Clutch switch won’t shot the car off, it will only keep the starter from engaging. Battery won’t shut the car off either; if the alternator is working you can remove the battery from the car once it’s running. It’s likely the ignition switch or hot wire to the coil.
Jeff
rthomas98
09-22-2021, 01:57 PM
Based on schematic if it was the ignition switch should of cut power to the fuel pump as well and you wouldn't of been able to pop the clutch like you did to restart. Hot wire to coil or possibly loose ground to coil/distributor as well would be my guesses.
Based on schematic if it was the ignition switch should of cut power to the fuel pump as well and you wouldn't of been able to pop the clutch like you did to restart. Hot wire to coil or possibly loose ground to coil/distributor as well would be my guesses.
Initially, I just tried to restart the car with the key and got nothing. After cycling the key to off and back to the run position, I was able to dump the clutch and start the car. If there is an issue internal in the switch, cycling the key may temporarily restore connectivity, at least until the next failure. Since first failure, I've now experienced a second. Again cruising at steady speed, about 40 mph. In this case, I was approaching a side street and coasted the car onto the side street and to a stop. After turning the key to the off position, I was able to immediately restart the car like nothing had happened.
rthomas98
09-22-2021, 09:28 PM
Initially, I just tried to restart the car with the key and got nothing. After cycling the key to off and back to the run position, I was able to dump the clutch and start the car. If there is an issue internal in the switch, cycling the key may temporarily restore connectivity, at least until the next failure. Since first failure, I've now experienced a second. Again cruising at steady speed, about 40 mph. In this case, I was approaching a side street and coasted the car onto the side street and to a stop. After turning the key to the off position, I was able to immediately restart the car like nothing had happened.
I hope that it isn't the ignition switch. Factory Five changed them and not for the better. I lucked out that they sent me an old one as a replacement because it wouldn't fit right in my dash. But not sure how many are left. Below is a picture of the new ones in comparison. These were the ones I sent to F5 to get a new one.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153652&d=1632363958
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153653&d=1632363958
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153654&d=1632363958
If you do get one of these you will need to fashion something in your dash so you can turn the key without spinning it.
I have one of the old-style ones that I bough a while ago -- new in the box and ready to go.
alexmak
10-07-2021, 09:06 AM
So, could my stall be caused by coolant coming out of the water pump and hitting the belt and pullys and splattered all over the alternator and air cleaner and pretty much everything on the front of the engine? :o
have you figured out the coolant issue? I had something similar with coolant dripping through the water pump bolts. turned out they got loose and tightening them up helped.
have you figured out the coolant issue? I had something similar with coolant dripping through the water pump bolts. turned out they got loose and tightening them up helped.
I replaced the water pump. A couple of the bolts go into the water jackets, so they need a dab of sealant on them. My issue was failed seals in the pump and water coming out of the weep holes. I suspect the seals failed prematurely due to crud that I never flushed completely from the system after my engine was sitting for several months with plain water in it from the dyno pulls BPE did before shipping it to me.