Track driving a Type65

[Zlinman]

Well its been a year and 6000 miles of street and tracking my Gen3 coupe. Thought I provide some details of the lessons I’ve learned. First, I started with a Gen3 Coyote, McLeod clutch, TKO600, IRS, 3.55 gears, FFR wheels, power steering, sway bars, Willwood brakes. First issue. Motor was barely drivable without a tune. Did an etune to start. Never again. It was better but super dangerous to do on the street. Not to mention illegal. Finally had a great tune done on a dyno. Huge difference. Warning, one of the popular etuners will lock your computer when the finish. My tuner had special knowledge to get around it. Next was the clutch. Went through 2 of the FFR supplied McLeod clutches in 4000 miles. Talked to McLeod and we decided that I needed a twin race clutch for the track. It a little tough on the street but bad *** on the track. Now the transmission. The TKO600 out of the box was horrible. Clunky shifts. WonÂ’t shift above 6300. After a couple of track days, wouldn’t down shift from 3rd to 2nd. Sent it to Liberty Gears. Did all there recommended mods. Tranny was butter! Shifted super smooth at 7500 rpm. Until yesterday when I lost it at the track. TKX is on its way. In defense of Liberty, Im driving the car very hard wit a race clutch and Hoosier R7s. Then there is the tire rubbing problem. With 315-30-18 on the back, the rear tires would rub during hard cornering. Added long studs and 1.0 spacers but to no avail. Jacked up the rear springs way above the recommended ride height and still no joy. Funnily cut out the offending tube and redesigned some new structure. Also went to 100lb heavier springs all around as well as much sway bar as I could get. I almost forgot about the brakes. Crap out of the box. Went to their street/track pad and were better. Proper bedding per Willwood instructions is critical. Still way too hard to stop. After a discussion with Willwood, we installed a 5/8 master for the front brakes. Awesome! It was a little work to get the balance right but now I have complete confidence that the car will stop from crazy fast. I can out brake just about everyone. The car is crazy fast now and handles like a dream. It is almost too easy. Very little oversteer. At 160mph, you could be drinking a Starbucks! Only the big money cars have a chance against this machine. The ultimate performance is way beyond my dreams. I know most people donÂ’t use the DaytonaÂ’s this hard, but maybe this will help those that do.

[TBull]

Thanks for the honest feedback. Glad things are working out for you.

[JohnK]

Very cool to hear! Thanks for sharing. But...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151743&d=1628273993

Let's see some cool photos of that beast on the track! :D

[Logan]

Oh man. This is my kind of review! Planning to use my Gen3 Coupe-R basically the same way. Where are you located?

Would like to see what you came up with for reinforcement after cutting out that 1" square tube that the rear tires rub on. I just finished modifying mine actually.

[Rsnake]

I agree with Logan! Great thread but we need photos. I intend to use mine in the same way, beat it like a rented mule!

[Zlinman]

Here is a couple of pics. One from the the Ridge Motorsport park and of of the mod I did to help with the tire rubbing. If you look close, you can see that there is a lot of air under the inside tires. This was before I increased the spring rates and adjusted the sway bars. The camber was also to much I think at 3 degrees. Adjusted the camber to 1.5 front 2.0 rear. Much better straight line traction and braking. Not sure about tire wear yet. I’ll check in after the new tranny and a track day. One other issue that I forgot to mention in my original post. Oil control was a problem right out of the gate. The car was pulling so hard in the corners that I was losing oil pressure. The computer on my Gen 3 Coyote would actually turn off the engine in the middle of a turn. The fix for me was a 3quart Accusump with a remote oil filter. The track I run on is pretty short and tight, so I am not sure how it would work on long sweepers. I may look at a dry sump this winter.

[Rsnake]

You are making me nervous on two fronts! The rear tire issue as I already have 335-30-18 but with custom offset wheels and the oil starvation issue. I assume you are running the baffled pan with the trap doors? Do you think you would still have oil issues on street tires? I am running 200 treadware tires so won't have the same level of grip as your racing slicks.
Thanks for the great post as I know a few of us are planning on tracking these new builds.

[RoadRacer]

The fix for me was a 3quart Accusump with a remote oil filter. The track I run on is pretty short and tight, so I am not sure how it would work on long sweepers. I may look at a dry sump this winter.

Thanks for the reminder about accusump. I can never look at my oil pressure during autocross, but I'm sure it isn't good.. my last track car had a dry sump, so I've never used one of these.

[Jim1855]

I've run a 3qt Accusump for years now and it's going into the current build. Can't tell you that it's saved the day but I can't identify any downsides either. If it squirts a bit of oil in during high G corners and preoils during start-up I'm happy.

I've been told that at 1-G the oil is at 45 degrees to ground and won't care if it's in the pan or valve covers. All the baffles in the world won't pull it out of the covers if the pump has pushed it out of the pan. Certainly these are momentary conditions but those long sweepers on track tires should cause some concern.

Dry sump is the answer, albeit a fairly expensive one.

Jim

[Zlinman]

Yes, I’m running the road race pan. Unfortunately, the tires won’t matter at the track. I started on Yokohama Advans when the oil problem first happened. I don’t how the 335 will work without rubbing. They are taller than the 315’s. I started out with 315 30 18 and it rubbed, so I put on 1.0 spacers. Then I went to 315 40 18 Hoosier. They rubbed so bad that I had smoke in the cockpit. Running the track alignment made it worse. Even with my structural mod, it started rubbing on the upper cross bar. I believe it is better now that I am running 500lb. springs in the back. My TKX should be here this week, so I can report back soon on the rubbing.

[Zlinman]

Oh man. This is my kind of review! Planning to use my Gen3 Coupe-R basically the same way. Where are you located?

Would like to see what you came up with for reinforcement after cutting out that 1" square tube that the rear tires rub on. I just finished modifying mine actually.
I’m in Arlington Wa.

[Logan]

Too far for me to ever have a chance to see it in person (2,500+ miles away), so you’ll just have to post more photos! Lol. Create a build thread for your car, or perhaps a Google Drive/Facebook/Dropbox/hosting link and dump a bunch of build pictures in there so we can all go check them out!

1. The rear tire fitment is a struggle in the Gen3 Coupe chassis. The two short 1” square bars behind the seats (back wall of the cockpit) are the only thing keeping folks from running larger tires. Your frame mod looks better than mine, as far as retaining the structure in this area. I considered removing this tube entirely, but decided to notch it instead. I realize the strength of the tube is like 10% of what it was before, but it’s better than 0%. I might weld another tube or piece of channel onto the other side of it, inside the cockpit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151880&d=1628526001

2. Speaking of tires, here’s the specs on R7s from TireRack for reference if anyone is curious to compare to their own tire widths and diameters.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151886&d=1628531704

3. What are some of your setup specs so we can all compare:
a. Camber: was -3.0 all around, and is now -1.5 front, -2.0 rear?
b. Toe: front and rear?
c. Caster: front w/power steering? (if it’s the KRC setup, which flow valve did you go with?)
d. Spring rates: stock Coupe-R is 750/400, so you’re 850/500 now?
e. Swaybars: what adjustment hole/distance/rate?
f. Wheels: what model, widths, and offsets?
g. Weight: corner weights, or just total weight?

4. Glad to hear the Control Pack PCM has a built-in safety shutoff if oil pressure is lost. However, to really eliminate the issue, a dry sump is the best solution. I went back and forth for months, and ultimately chose not to go with a dry sump. I put AC in instead since it’ll be street legal and I live in the south. The AC compressor goes where the dry sump pump would have to go, so it was one or the other. Also the Aviaid dry sump kit was $4-5k for the Coyote last I checked. My car is 70%-ish complete, so I might try to add an Accusump (halfway solution, and I’m not crazy about them), or just run the baffled wet sump pan with an extra 0.5 to 1 quart over the full line, and hope for the best. But it’s already making me nervous, so who knows.

[Bluemont]

For what its worth, I'd recommend giving an Accusump a go. It isn't too expensive and is pretty simple. I've had one for many years on a Cobra and it gets the job done. You can definitely see it squirt oil in long enough to get through a corner. Used it for both track days and autocrosses for about 10 years.

[Zlinman]

My coupe is not an R. It came with 500 front 400 back. I now have 600 front 500 back. I have my new Tremec TKX, so I can report back soon.

[Zlinman]

My coupe is not an R. It came with 500 front 400 back. I now have 600 front 500 back. I have my new Tremec TKX, so I can report back soon.

Installed the new Tremec TKX. Total Butter! Way better out of the gate than the TKO 600 with liberty gears mods!. I can't wait for the next track day . I also had a 50 short shifter and i cannot tell the deference in the the new shifter . Track day soon ! I won an auction for a real race coach, so I am excited to see what happens. More to follow.

[Sgt.Gator]

Zlinman,
Thanks for the build notes and track updates. I'm considering a Gen3 build and between you, Logan, Gordon Levy, jkrueger, a host of others too many to mention, and of course John George's original build thread and follow-up racing reports, have all been very helpful.

I race in your neck of the woods in the ICSCC with my FF 818R and a Subaru STI. We hit Pacific Raceways twice a year, just raced at The Ridge, and Portland International Raceway 4 times a year. Hopefully we'll get Spokane back on the schedule next year. I'm also an Oregon Raceway Park club member - instructor, my home track. I know it's a long way to ORP from your home, but if you want some great track time you are welcome to come as my guest to an ORP Club day. I'll trade you a day of track instruction for a day of you putting up with me going over your car with a fine tooth comb and asking a million questions! The ORP calendar is here, just pick a day where it says ORP Club and let's work it out. It's 7 hours of track time, no run groups or "sessions" like traditional HPDE. You come on and off the track as much as you want. https://oregonraceway.com/scheduling-calendar-2/

Otherwise I hope to see you at one of our ICSCC races. Spectators are welcome and encouraged. The 2021 season is over except for the 2-4-8 hour Cascade Festival of Endurance at PIR October 16th. Of course I'll try to talk you into joining in our racing.

[Logan]

Hey Zlinman - have you done any more driving with the Coupe since August? How is the new TKX transmission holding up on track?

[Zlinman]

Hey Zlinman - have you done any more driving with the Coupe since August? How is the new TKX transmission holding up on track?

The TKX is fantastic so far. I am sad to report though, I crashed the Coupe on track. Too much car and not enough driver. Ended up backwards out into the trees.the chassis did a great job of protecting me. Factory five is doing their best to round up parts. With any luck, I’ll be back on the track in the spring. Hopefully with more humility!

[Jim1855]

Ouch! Sorry to hear about your "off track excursion". Hope you get through the repairs.
Good to hear on the TKX.
Jim

[Logan]

Sorry about your off! Glad you're okay. How bad was it, what speed did you tag the tree at? What kind of parts do you need to get it back together? I will keep my eyes open for them if I can help.

[Rsnake]

Glad your ok but sorry to hear about the car. How did the chassis hold up? I am curious to see if these are as strong as a they look. Maybe some photos?