View Full Version : Traction control
Has anyone installed a sensor on the front wheels to set up traction control. On my Gen 1 it looks like there are segmented rings on the front hubs that could be used, on the back a drive shaft sensor can be used (with a posi) and the ECM table adjusted for the gear ratio?
Have tried the Davis TC-2 and talked to guys using the Holley "Traction Management" add on but not really the best for the street. The front/back wheel comparison seems to be the recommended method (assuming no wheelies!)
33fromSD
07-25-2021, 09:34 AM
If by traction control you mean ABS then yes, the segmented rings on the hub are for ABS.
Jim
Jim, do you have any idea what these hubs are from? Guessing a Ford of some sort, want to get the right ABS sensor the first time.
33fromSD
07-26-2021, 09:28 AM
If my memory serves me right (FFR could verify this too), these are early 2000's (2001-2008-ish) mustang hubs
Jim
Quick response from Mike at FFR, hubs are 94-04 Mustang. Spindles are not drilled for the ABS sensor but should be able to fab something.
The ABS sensors output a sine wave so the ECM must be able to read this (Dominators do) or there are conversion boxes to convert to square wave. Summit lists one.
If you have the Wilwood brake setup setup magnets can be inserted to the aluminum hat and a Hall Effect sensor can be used.
The Hall Effect sensors are supposed offer better resolution at low speeds but with the number of segments on the Ford Hubs this shouldn't be an issue. We will see....
Interesting project, good luck with it.
I will continue to up date this post for those who might be interested.
I bought a used 04 Ford Mustang ABS sensor which comes with a 2' long pigtail off EBay (the parts stores have them as well but more $$) and made a .25 thick alum. bracket that attaches to the spindle casting with two holes I drilled for 10-32 machine screws.
According to my research the sensor magnet should be no more than about .020" from the tone ring on the hub. (I have no idea why they are called tone rings) The ring on my hubs have 50 segments and hooking the sensor leads to my O'scope. and rotating the hub I saw a sine wave whose frequency varied with the hub rpm. Lots more messing around to do but looks workable.
I'll post a picture once the bracket is finalized.
JimLev
08-04-2021, 09:16 PM
I’ve been thinking about using the tone ring for a cruise control.
What are you using as a ECM Jim? With the Holley Dominator you can do all sorts of interesting things. If you had DBW and could access those routines it would be pretty easy. But they really don't want you messing around with that part.
I think the aftermarket cruise controls that I have seen use a hall effect sensor on the drive shaft but with the sine to square wave converter that wouldn't be a problem. I haven't been able to measure the VR output voltage accurately yet but it looks less than a Hall sensor.
Some references I have seen suggest using shielded wire to mitigate the noise and that tells me the VR output is low.
All will be revealed as I journey down this path....
JimLev
08-05-2021, 09:25 PM
I’m using the GM ECU that came with my LS3. I was planning on using an aftermarket cruise control with a sensor on the tone ring. Maybe something like this. https://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm?ptype=product&product_id=1004&category_id=-1&mode=prod
I’ve got spare sensors for my BMW, they put out a nice 5v square wave on my scope.
I had a chance to measure the voltage output of the Ford Mustang VR sensor and once you get some rpms on the hub it will produce about 1.4V-1.6V peak to peak. It was enough to trigger the Dominator.
Here is a shot of the bracket I made to hold the sensor. I positioned the attachment screws so they can be accessed without pulling the hub and this required151897 a flat head in the front to clear the brake caliper.
Don't forget to add a steering angle sensor. Control unit needs data to figure out when you're turning, or the delta between wheel speeds during a turn can cause unwanted activation.
Some further info on the setup. Spacing the VR sensor .020 from the 50 segment tone ring provided a speed read out starting at 9mph on my Dominator set up. Below that the speed was not registering. So you would need to be rolling at or above this speed for the front/rear comparison to work.
For this reason I have decided to machine a ring with small magnets to mount on the hub for the use of a Hall effect sensor.
So this will be the last chapter on this subject for me! After removing the tone ring (its a press fit) from the hub I faced, drilled and tapped it for five 10-32 machine screws. These screws are used with spacers to hold an aluminum ring about .25" thick with 24 blind holes machined in. In the holes are glued small round high strength magnets procured from the Bay.
A .187" thk. aluminum bracket was made to hold the Hall Effect sensor and attached in the same spindle holes I had used for the ABS lash up. I spaced the sensor .065 from the magnets. After redoing the wiring a bit and ECM programming ran some tests. On my set up (Holley Dominator) it looks like I can get a reading at about .5mph.
152987
33fromSD
09-03-2021, 05:44 PM
Nice, great job!! I guess one stupid question because I don't know so I'll ask, will the aluminum ring / magnets around the ring cause any unusual vibration on the front steering? Not sure if the abs ring that was pressed on it originally was balance some how or if it's a non issue.
Jim
I don't think so Jim, the disk with the magnets is very light and the way I machined it should be balanced. I checked to see if everything ran true and that was acceptable. But I haven't had it on the road just spun it in the shop.
I will drive it tomorrow, running it up to speed and if an issue will report back.
I don't think so Jim, the disk with the magnets is very light and the way I machined it should be balanced. I checked to see if everything ran true and that was acceptable. But I haven't had it on the road just spun it in the shop.
I will drive it tomorrow, running it up to speed and if an issue will report back.
Ok got it out and ran it up pretty fast, I couldn't tell any effects from the addition. I logged this run and comparing it to the rear wheel speed (sensor derived ) and the transmission speed they were right on.
The switching speed of the Hall Effect sensors must be very high, 24 magnets passing over it at the speed I ran, wow.