Found some Spy Shots of 818 @ SEMA

[mattster03]

Came accross these posted by FFR on Facebook this morning... you can see the frame and 1/4 scale "Jim" model in the background.

http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll343/mattster03/818Display2.jpg

http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll343/mattster03/818Display1.jpg

Not much, but just thought I'd share :D

[Evan78]

Looks like the 818 makes a decent stool.

[Benji]

Or you could just add Factory Five on facebook if you have it, they are all on there :)

[AVIONX]

Looks like the 818 makes a decent stool.
LOL! Sad but true.

[Rockraven]

Where's the other models?

[VTX]

Or you could just add Factory Five on facebook if you have it, they are all on there :)

I looked and didn't see anything on their facebook page. Do you have any links?

[bromikl]

There are two sets of spy shots on FB. The ones with Jim's 818 were posted at about 10AM Eastern. All the ones with 818 models are here, above.

[PhyrraM]

Where's the other models?

Dave already stated that only Jim's "detailed" model was going to SEMA.

[Best of the best]

Dave already stated that only Jim's "detailed" model was going to SEMA.

Doesn't make any sense. Unless someone is trying to convince the customers or potential customers to love Jim's design. If FFR want reactions from people they should of shown all models for flavors. The more I look at Jim's design the more clunky it gets and it looks like a first term student car designers work.

[PhyrraM]

Doesn't make any sense. Unless someone is trying to convince the customers or potential customers to love Jim's design. If FFR want reactions from people they should of shown all models for flavors. The more I look at Jim's design the more clunky it gets and it looks like a first term student car designers work.

Dave stated that Jim's was the most durable. I'm also *guessing* that he might be looking for more "unbiased" feedback from folks who have not seen the comparables.

[Best of the best]

Durable? It's obvious that they don't want to show the other models b/c it will have more attention than Jim's model. If they want honest reactions from folks this is the opporturnity to see which of the models will liight the folks H.o.F. This is a good PR for them if they want the folks to get excited. When you show only one model....everyone will say nice things about it b/c there is no competitions. :( I'm a little depressed how they approached this.

[D2W]

Dave did say that even without the detailing, Jim's model had the best fit and finish. BUT, I'm also saddened that this is how they chose to represent the 818 at a show as big as SEMA.

[Inthenameofweez]

People are double taking at this car. Trust me. The word is out. It will only spread from here. The 1/4 scale model isn't drawing anywhere near the amount of attention as compared to the engine/chassis.

Oh and directly from Dave: The front end WILL be changed. It needs to scream. Catch attention...

Don't plan on Jim's current front end staying around much longer. I will have my hand and thought put in as well. Hopefully we can get a jaw dropping front fascia going ASAP.

[mattster03]

People are double taking at this car. Trust me. The word is out. It will only spread from here. The 1/4 scale model isn't drawing anywhere near the amount of attention as compared to the engine/chassis.

Oh and directly from Dave: The front end WILL be changed. It needs to scream. Catch attention...

Don't plan on Jim's current front end staying around much longer. I will have my hand and thought put in as well. Hopefully we can get a jaw dropping front fascia going ASAP.

Good to hear! So I take it you are at SEMA this year?

[adesilva]

People are double taking at this car. Trust me. The word is out. It will only spread from here. The 1/4 scale model isn't drawing anywhere near the amount of attention as compared to the engine/chassis.

Oh and directly from Dave: The front end WILL be changed. It needs to scream. Catch attention...

Don't plan on Jim's current front end staying around much longer. I will have my hand and thought put in as well. Hopefully we can get a jaw dropping front fascia going ASAP.

I am sadly not a fan of the rear either :( From how Dave and others are talking are they basically saying Daves model is the one they are going to be using??

[Inthenameofweez]

I had to stay home because of work. My roommates are there right now. I was the excited one, so I'm being spoon fed. Hahaha.

[D2W]

...The 1/4 scale model isn't drawing anywhere near the amount of attention as compared to the engine/chassis.

Oh and directly from Dave: The front end WILL be changed. It needs to scream. Catch attention...

Don't plan on Jim's current front end staying around much longer. I will have my hand and thought put in as well. Hopefully we can get a jaw dropping front fascia going ASAP.

Sad but understandably true. I'm kind of blown away that on such a "low budget" as Dave has stated that they will continue to pour money into this design when they have others that are so much better to start with. Kind of like "in your face, our design will be the best"

[PHATsuby]

Dave stated that Jim's was the most durable. I'm also *guessing* that he might be looking for more "unbiased" feedback from folks who have not seen the comparables.

How does this make sense? If they haven't seen said comparables then when they are seeing them all for the first time, they are giving you an unbiased opinion based on all the models available.

How is giving them one model and nothing else unbiased? "here you can compare this model to nothing, how do you like it?"

Just my opinion. I'm glad to hear they are at least re-doing the front fascia because it does not look good to me.

Ben

[Hiryu]

Here's some of the (blurry?) shots that I took before talking to Dave:

5778
5779
5780
5781
5782

As stated before, Dave mentioned that he really wanted to change the front end of Jim's design. I never got a chance to talk to Jim...But after talking with Dave, I really felt like (as he's said all along), the 818 WILL be good looking when it's done/ready.

Mike

[PhyrraM]

How does this make sense? ......How is giving them one model and nothing else unbiased? "here you can compare this model to nothing, how do you like it?"
Ben

If the question that FFR wants answered is "Does this model look good?" or "Does this model have potential?", then only responses from those who have not seen the others can be considered. Much less responses from those who have actively lobbied for another design.

It's all about what data you are trying to collect.

Anyways, I'm sure that Jim's went because it's the one that got detailed. The rest will get the treatment also as resources allow. I'm also guessing that Rodney's will get a second 3D model with the new improvements.


Just noticed that the prototype chassis now has CV shafts installed. Technical progress!! Yeah!

[olpro]

PhyrraM, I think you are right. There was/is a lot of campaigning for 'favorite' design on this site and it tends to distort the results. I happen to think the silver model is a poor choice but that is just my opinion.
On the other hand, I wish there was more progress on the chassis. Adding the CV shafts was pretty much a minimum addition. I hope they are working on the shifter, the tank, the seating and any mods to the frame resulting from those efforts.

[Olimk2]

Quite disapointed to see that none of the contest designs made it to sema...How hard was it to make a panel with renderings if the models were estimated "not good enough"? I don't understand why there was so much effort put in this contest for this result so far...Just for internet buzz? Let's hope this project will be back on track in the following weeks!

[forced4]

Just noticed that the prototype chassis now has CV shafts installed. Technical progress!! Yeah!Are those 'extenders' on the inboard side of the CV axles? Track width must be 3+ inches more than a WRX.

[Steve91T]

This project is absolutely on track. C'mon guys, not only are they running a business, but also designing a car! Some of you think that Dave can drop everything and devote 100% of his time, and his companies time to the 818. They'll get there, don't worry.

[adesilva]

Very true, its not as if the 818 is their only kit as well. They still have a lot going on and you cant expect them to be working 24 hours a day either.

[Kalstar]

They did not bring out the full size either. If they had decided Jim's was the one they would have had the full scale there. Dave knows what he is doing, trust that we will have one hell of a toy when it is all said and done.

[Olimk2]

What i mean is that sema is a good place to have comments on several designs from car guys, no?

[GUNS]

Are those 'extenders' on the inboard side of the CV axles? Track width must be 3+ inches more than a WRX.

No those are stock. Trust me I know, I just got done replacing them on my bugeye.

[Oppenheimer]

What i mean is that sema is a good place to have comments on several designs from car guys, no?

So you are FFR, and you several scale mock-ups of your new car. But they are fresh from the 'mold'. Some of them are clay and very fragile. You haven't had time to detail them and photo shoot them, which you are itching to do to get useful feedback from your group of rabid, online fans and would-be customers.

The time for the big SEMA trade show has arrived. Do you bring all these models to the show, risking damage? Show them to the world before your loyal forum groupies have even gotten a real look at them? Risk making a poor first impression with some of your models you think might be real show-stoppers?

I think Dave chose wisely.

[Niburu]

it has also seemed to light a fire under the butt of some of the designers

[VTX]

So you are FFR, and you several scale mock-ups of your new car. But they are fresh from the 'mold'. Some of them are clay and very fragile. You haven't had time to detail them and photo shoot them, which you are itching to do to get useful feedback from your group of rabid, online fans and would-be customers.

The time for the big SEMA trade show has arrived. Do you bring all these models to the show, risking damage? Show them to the world before your loyal forum groupies have even gotten a real look at them? Risk making a poor first impression with some of your models you think might be real show-stoppers?

I think Dave chose wisely.

I agree. Also, I think people are reading WAY too much into this and making a lot of assumptions about FFRs intentions with this project. People just need to be patient. I'm sure that when Dave gets back he will have time to clarify things. No need to jump to any conclusions before hand.

[BrandonDrums]

Eh not worth it

[AC Bill]

Personally, I think that there is a lot of time, money, and resources going into this 818, that could have been better spent perfecting the Roadster, the GTM, and the Type 65 Coupe. The Roadster especially, has always been the backbone of FFR, and I think that the Coupe and the GTM are becoming more popular. They can all use some slight improvements. I would like to see a GTM with a removable roof.. now that would be a worthwhile project.

The 818 really doesn't get me excited at all..Perhaps I'm just to old to appreciate the ricer look..:D

[Steve91T]

Personally, I think that there is a lot of time, money, and resources going into this 818, that could have been better spent perfecting the Roadster, the GTM, and the Type 65 Coupe. The Roadster especially, has always been the backbone of FFR, and I think that the Coupe and the GTM are becoming more popular. They can all use some slight improvements. I would like to see a GTM with a removable roof.. now that would be a worthwhile project.

The 818 really doesn't get me excited at all..Perhaps I'm just to old to appreciate the ricer look..:D


Please don't call it a ricer. I'm sure you were joking, but it's far from a ricer. A lotus Elise is not a ricer. A 16 year old kid with a civic with cut springs, a fart can, a monster tach, primer body kit, and an automatic is a ricer.


The other cars they have are awesome, and I'm sure they could use some improvements, but as a company, they need to grow and keep up with demand. The 818 is going to appeal to so many people the other cars don't. Just like after the 818, I've read mention of a 4x4. FFR is going to have something for everyone.

To be completely honest, the 818 could end up being the fastest car that FFR has.

Steve

[ScottKoschwitz]

I agree with Oppenheimer. If I were in the same situation, I would have done the same thing. I think FFR is vetting the concept at SEMA, to see if people get excited by the idea. You need some body there to allow people to see something beyond the chassis, so taking the most presentable model makes sense.

I think people are overlooking the fact that, beyond us 818 groupies, there's a massive potential customer base that don't know much about this thing, probably nothing beyond the initial announcement last year, and maybe not even that.

I also think people are getting way too wedded to particular bodies, to the point that I'm waiting for people to post "Well, you can forget me as a customer if it's not (insert name)'s design."

This is a process that has yielded more value than just designating a "winner.". It has generated excitement for this project, revealed potential customers' needs and desires for this car, raised valid technical points of the design, and has improved the considered designs.

Also, don't forget that if you don't like the initial design chosen for production, just it for the other two. (Which makes me realize that we will be debating 818 bodies on this forum for quite some time to come.)


There's a long way to go in this, and Dave and team have done this before, so take comfort in that.

[Evan78]

The whole reason FFR made the scale models was to take to SEMAReally? I don't remember that being the reason. I do remember Dave saying he doesn't know if the models will be done in time for SEMA.

You feel that the modeling process is worthless if they aren't shown at SEMA? Is feedback from SEMA attendees really the piece of the design puzzle that is crucial to a successful product?

[Niburu]

The 818 really doesn't get me excited at all..Perhaps I'm just too old

You are.

This car is aimed at a younger generation that doesn't won't big honkin 'Murrican V8 rwd car and doesn't have the kind of money necessary to blow on a complicated build like the GTM.
This car is aimed at people who understand turbos and who think some of the Japanese cars are cool.

[Oppenheimer]

Like Scott mentioned, the first 818 is not the only 818. There will be several designs. So even if Steven Tylers son ends up with a recording contract and a fat check, so do all the other podium finshers.

[Evan78]

Compared to a GTM, what gets me excited is the prospect of cutting 700 lbs and $10-$15k off the cost of having a running car.

[PhyrraM]

..... They are all scale, clay models .....

Only Xabier's is clay. It was done by RISD. The rest are 3D printing, rapid prototyping types of construction.


The whole reason FFR made the scale models was to take to SEMA, ....

Dave stated many times that the reason for the 3d models of the "winners", Jim's fullsize-1/4 scale combo, the design contest(to a lesser extent), and the whole basic process here, was to fine tune and test proof-of-concept on FFRs idea of fast turnaround on body styles. Indeed, Dave also used it to feed us ravanious monsters info, but it's primary function was as a testbed for the next wave of FFR's way of bringing products to market.


Forgive me as I know it will turn out fine in the end,....

Yes, yes it will.


*forgive me for speaking my mind, I do not mean to offend anyone as that's not my intent

That's what this forum is for. ;)

[Oppenheimer]

I still feel like Dave has not let on about all he has in mind for the 818. Is it really just 3 body designs go into production, and thats all? (although that in itself is revolutionary)

If they are looking for rapid prototyping new body designs, does that hint they are planning to eventually make all sorts of body designs available for the 818? Is that even feasible? (from a manufacturing & inventory POV, ie; how much would all that cost?)

If it were possible, it would certaily make all our bickering over 'the' body design seem childish (well, more than it already does). It would also make the archive of 700 contest design entries into a treasure trove of endless 818's that could be built, and sheer genius on how they werre gathered.

[olpro]

All this talk about rapid prototyping more bodies is a pipe dream. Going from a design sketch to a 1/4 scale is hard enough and it hasn't been easy here. Developing the design(s) in 1/4 scale just hasn't happened yet because they have never done this before. Their partners at RISD and Solid Works haven't either.

[AC Bill]

This car is aimed at a younger generation that... doesn't have the money

That is a very good point you raise.
Nobody knows at this point of course, what the costs of building one of these may end up to be, but hey, if it allows a younger guy to build a fun, performance car, on a small budget, than I agree it's a darn good idea.

Here's one I thought looked very similar to the 818 prototype model..comes with a turbo, and a warranty too..lol
http://www.automag.be/IMG/jpg/Opel_speedster_Turbo_2003_054_A71794.jpg
http://www.carw.co/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/2001-opel-speedster.jpg

[Evan78]

Wow, never seen that thing before. Opel Speedster/Vauxhall VX220. Available with 2.0L GM turbo (200hp) or 2.2L NA (150hp), weighing about 2000 lbs. Too bad they didn't get sold in the US, I wonder if any have been imported.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vauxhall_VX220

[Niburu]

Bill, like any of the F5R builds the cost depends partially on the buyer's skillset and how much money is spent for (and recooped from) the donor.
But from the outset Dave Smith has said the base kit will be no more than $9900.
The budget build will probably range between $15K-$20K when it's all said and done.
Depending on what bells and whistles folks want, me I'm shooting for under $15K.
All I need is a windshield, some functional wipers, and a working set of lights so I can register it in VA.
Heat might be nice too.

[mattster03]

OMG and LOL. That Opal looks almost exactly like the Jim model.

[vozproto]

Here's one I thought looked very similar to the 818 prototype model..comes with a turbo, and a warranty too..lol
http://www.automag.be/IMG/jpg/Opel_speedster_Turbo_2003_054_A71794.jpg
http://www.carw.co/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/2001-opel-speedster.jpg

Wow. That things is a bit TOO similar in looks. Headlight lines, hood treatment and all.
The back end is a bit different although it has similar design cues.

[kach22i]

OMG and LOL. That Opal looks almost exactly like the Jim model.
Yea, they are both silver.:rolleyes:

EDIT:
I've posted photos of the Opel Speedster several times in the forum, and until now no one has mentioned it could look like Jim's.

See post 54:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?3959-Shawn-Whetstone-s-Design/page2

[BipDBo]

Other than the color, and that they share all the same features, I don't see the resemblance. It is ugly, though.

[Best of the best]

OMG and LOL. That Opal looks almost exactly like the Jim model.
I think its the other way around. Hmmm...It's obvious Jim got inspired by this car. Got to love the Internet.

[mattster03]

Yea, they are both silver.:rolleyes:

EDIT:
I've posted photos of the Opel Speedster several times in the forum, and until now no one has mentioned it could look like Jim's.

See post 54:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?3959-Shawn-Whetstone-s-Design/page2

Is this sarcasm? Sorry, but not everybody follows that thread. And I see way more similarities than both cars being silver; but maybe that's just me.

[BrandonDrums]

Like Scott mentioned, the first 818 is not the only 818. There will be several designs. So even if Steven Tylers son ends up with a recording contract and a fat check, so do all the other podium finshers.

That would be swell but I doubt that at this point. I think ultimately were looking at a roadster, hard top, mpg and race variant.

[TroyLynx]

Xabier's should not be in clay. It should be a mold ready to go. just my oh pinion.

[AC Bill]

Is this sarcasm? Sorry, but not everybody follows that thread. And I see way more similarities than both cars being silver; but maybe that's just me.

No it's not just you..lol.. I see several design features that are similar..not exact, but very similar.

[bromikl]

Never saw the Opel before, but AC Bill has something there.

58425843

[kach22i]

I'll meet you guys half way, I started a template to help point out the similarities, you finish it.
5846

The hood crease in the front quarter (fender) is the strongest case on similarly in my opinion.

Not all that strong overall as a "copy" case in my opinion.

[mattster03]

Besides the ones you have mentioned (which make the front end nearly identical), additional similarities that I see would be if you would veiw both cars directly in the side view. You would notice that both designs, although different when viewed from the back have a triangular shaped 'sail' behind the operators heads (to cover rollover protection bars) which leads into a long flat deck. The long flat deck in both models results in somewhat squared rear hips (when viewed from the rear). The rear view would be completely different as the tail lights, rear bumper, and deck flow into into it differently, though as with the GTM I would expect FFR would not find it cost effective to use molded rear lamps, so that's out of the question anyway.

It wasn't my intention to say that the Opal design was copied, but rather the Jim design inadvertantly looks too similar... just another example of a car that looks too much like something else on the road. A deal breaker for me.

[mattster03]

http://www.fastdrive.org/wp-content/gallery/cars/Opel/2000-Opel-Speedster/2000-Opel-Speedster-12.jpg

http://www.factoryfive.com/818/images/3b.jpg

Here's a picture of what I'm trying to describe. The doors are a bit different too, but it also makes me realize that Jim's doors need a lot of work.

[D2W]

I think the Opel is ugly too.

[jinda]

Iam with D2W. There are both the same basic design.
Sorry to be so negative. Where was I when the paper was
white! With that said all the designs picked, except the blue car
are "done before" and or "plain jane".

[PHATsuby]

Personally I like the Opel better lol. Definitely some similarities, who knows if Jim saw that car or not. I think at this point it doesn't really matter. Could make the Opel a little more aggressive and it would be K-1 like and that is a sweet car.

Ben

[crackedcornish]

Personally I like the Opel better lol. Definitely some similarities, who knows if Jim saw that car or not. I think at this point it doesn't really matter. Could make the Opel a little more aggressive and it would be K-1 like and that is a sweet car.

Ben

the Opel more aggressive = Vauxhall vx220 turbo
http://www.carautoportal.com/car-images/vauxhall/vauxhall-vx220/vauxhall-vx220-red.jpg

Vauxhall vx220 more aggressive = this
http://fastcache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2008/09/Caral-V8XS.jpg

now if FF wants to go with something like this....

[PhyrraM]

From SEMA.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXhVv6_AeOU&feature=related

Pretty standard stuff. Only real news for us is the intended use of factory seats at this time.

Dave is also talking up the N/A Impreza based build.

[demetri]

i like the mention of using an NA impreza for this as it will allow someone like me to fab up their own turbo or supercharger system. nice.

[adesilva]

Very interesting that they plan on using the seats as well, makes sense given the price of the kit. I suppose they will be planning on using the wheel as well...

Dave also said that the release for the kit will probably be around SEMA of next year as well. That certainly gives all of us plenty of time to save for one :)

I cant say I would be using the factory steering wheel / seats though. I dont personally want anything in the interior that would say subaru on it. Finding nice alternatives on ebay is usually pretty easy so I am not too worried about that.

[kach22i]

Stock seats....in the video. I assume we can add water resistant seat covers (for us cheap guys), custom seats if you can afford them would still be an option.

I did not catch if the gas tank will be modified by the owner (to go vertical), or if a custom tank will be offered. Not a critical detail in any case.

[adesilva]

Stock seats....in the video. I assume we can add water resistant seat covers (for us cheap guys), custom seats if you can afford them would still be an option.

I did not catch if the gas tank will be modified by the owner (to go vertical), or if a custom tank will be offered. Not a critical detail in any case.

I would imagine you would be able to get back a decent amount for the stock seats in a wrx donar. That would go a long way towards purchasing some nice replacements.

[Oppenheimer]

I cant say I would be using the factory steering wheel / seats though. I dont personally want anything in the interior that would say subaru on it.

Depending on year, the WRX wheel will have a Momo logo on it...

[adesilva]

true true, i totally forgot after watching the video and seeing the wheel they had used.

[BrandonDrums]

After watching that video, I think Oppenheimer was right, they sound like they are going to be doing 3 body designs for the car on top of the 3 variant setups. Perhaps not a pipe dream after all.

Nice.

[skullandbones]

It perplexed me when Jim's model showed up in the mix but now (after SEMA) it makes more sense. Even if Jim's is a serious contender (or not) it served as a perfect place holder for the show (sitting on the chassis). That way no other design would be perceived as the front runner for the initial release. That's a pretty good diplomatic move by Dave and FFR. The only down side to the press release is that there is another acronym to remember. A18 = 818. Love those reporters and their great communication skills. IMO. WEK.

[AVIONX]

Dave also said that the release for the kit will probably be around SEMA of next year as well. I think that would be a major mistake. A launch well before SEMA would be a major boost. Think about the difference between launching 2 weeks after SEMA versus 2 months before. 2 weeks after the fever has died down and requires lots of memory and imagination. 2 months before means you could take 100 orders during the show and have your HOF car in 3 different booths (FFR, COBB, etc.)

[Evan78]

I think that would be a major mistake. A launch well before SEMA would be a major boost. Think about the difference between launching 2 weeks after SEMA versus 2 months before. 2 weeks after the fever has died down and requires lots of memory and imagination. 2 months before means you could take 100 orders during the show and have your HOF car in 3 different booths (FFR, COBB, etc.)They can get some demo cars to SEMA without being ready for full production.

[Dave Smith]

I think Jim did a nice job of reviewing the running gear and current layout plans that seem to work best (and do affect body shape/design). That being said, we've been quite deliberate in the presentation of the project and the nodes at which we've asked for help. I really am confident that the car's basic chassis and running gear combos will deliver phenomenal performance and ease of build. I am also committed to the three purposed chassis, namely an affordable roadster (launched first), a track model, and a super sleek low CofD/frontal area coupe that is a build-it-yourself hyper-mpg car. Now that the dust is settling we have to decide, refine, deliver a body that will elicit a HoF response. I am tossing around several paths here on this MOST IMPORTANT part of the project. I am seriously open to any ideas you guys have on body design/shapes, but in the end I think I'll protect the team and take responsibility for the final call myself.

[Flashburn]

Dave,

While you have been away this forum has signed up quite a few members to the HoF club.
Check out Rodney's new work, that's where the burnt smell is coming from.

[Dave Smith]

One more comment about the timeline. We've been right on target and I dont want to get caught up in the show-hype and start making predictions that end up being a joke. The team is putting together a resource plan to accelerate the car's testing and launch. I think its possible to launch the car before or about this time next year and said as much. Still, after the plan is reviewed, I can be more specific. What I wont do is make outlandish promises and take people's money on a car that hasnt been tested and hasnt been tooled up and production ready. The proper beta program has to conclude and feedback has to be incorporated before production cars ship.

The next step is the HoF design and body that is NOT negotiable then comes the well-considered development pert chart/plan and estimated dates and configurations so that you guys can keep us honest and make reasonable decisions about the project at each step along the way and then at introduction.

Still alot of work to do but we are energized that we are on the right path after SEMA.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, Ive seen the modified drwgs and am really impressed. What would the top three shapes be right now? From what I read it's Rodney, vmans, Xabiers with changes, and shawn whetstones. Is that fair?

[PhyrraM]

..... I am seriously open to any ideas you guys have on body design/shapes, but in the end I think I'll protect the team and take responsibility for the final call myself.

While I freely admit that Scott Bradford's and Xabier's designs are my personal favorites, I think that Rodney has shown the creativity, adaptiveness, and thick skin that are required to finish off the mechanical details of a design while still retaining some sort of artistic cohesion that Jim's currently lacks.

Put him on staff (or at least retainer)....that is my suggestion. It seems to me that if he was entitled to a bit of Jim's thought process and mechanical vision, the pair combined should be able to come up with a production ready design that is better than either can devise alone.

[Flashburn]

Interest in Rodney's has definitely exploded to #1.
Xabier's has always been well-liked and people were waiting for the detailing work that jim's model received.
Vman's appeals to a lot of folks as long as you don't mind the porsche homage, I like vman's.
Shawn whetstone's has generated some interest as well, but it's hard to gauge.

I'm sure some people also still like nouphone's design. But maybe many converted towards Rodney's from this camp?

[vozproto]

Rodney's has lauched upward for me.

I am a staunch porsche advocate, but if it isnt a porsche I don't want it really looking too much like one. Now this may be part of the whole rendering vs real life aspect. But if I wanted a kit car that looked like something else, I woulda built a fiero-rrari by now.

I have always like Nouphone's, but I would much rather ahve the current Rodney design over the existing Nouphone design.

Whetstones looks pretty slick. But there are concerns about the actual dimensions as far as I understand.

Xabiers for me has always been kinda "eh"... but I know that there are many who disagree.

So in my "thumb-to-pinky around the elbow" summation... Yes Dave, that sounds about right.

[Dave Smith]

Thats a good idea really, to bring those guys into the fold and maybe expand the team a bit... Really great idea there as the designs HAVE to progress from public to inner sanctum. I think the best of crowd sourcing can only get so far and if you let it guide ALL aspects of a project the end result will be a watered down ugly "makes everyone miserable" design. really good thought there.

[Dave Smith]

All good avenues. The porsche influence is tough for me as this HAS to be an FFR distinct design. This is our chance to build further on our brand and a truly HoF design shouldnt be pulled down by references to any version of a replica. We already have some great replicas (Mk4, 33 hot rod, and Type 65 Coupe)... I'm not saying a modified version of Vmans is out for me, I think it would need some distance but I am very respectful of the work.

[Steve91T]

All good avenues. The porsche influence is tough for me as this HAS to be an FFR distinct design. This is our chance to build further on our brand and a truly HoF design shouldnt be pulled down by references to any version of a replica. We already have some great replicas (Mk4, 33 hot rod, and Type 65 Coupe)... I'm not saying a modified version of Vmans is out for me, I think it would need some distance but I am very respectful of the work.

We're all dying to hear your opinion on Rodney's new design.

[Dave Smith]

I think there are functional challenges with Rodneys design but I don't KNOW this and I dont know the extent to which he changed the car... I do like it alot better and I think there is a chance that the HoF gauge is pegged. On first pass I love it. I'm also really grateful for the work and feedback as Ive said all along that the body shape is the single biggest challenge going forward. truth is any shape floated so far will be ok and other comapnies will take a generic shape and just make a jelly bean car and go ahead. This car has to be great and it wont be great if it's not beautiful and radical and passion-inspiring. Rodneys LOOKS to be there, but we'll have to go further in real world work and just might. I have to find the cash in the project for more real scale models I think

[RonSchofield]

Originally I was just following the 818 since it was Subaru based and I have two Subaru's. After seeing the contest winners, I was mildly interested, after seeing Rodney's orange design. I WANT ONE OF THOSE.. It is now my wallpaper on my home and work computer. I can't wait to finish my coupe and then hopefully get a Rodney orange 818. I would love to see what I could do with that interior.

Dave, if you decide not to do Rodney's orange design, I hope there will be an option to just buy the frame. I would do the body myself. I need a bigger challenge. ;)

[dclin]

... This is our chance to build further on our brand and a truly HoF design shouldnt be pulled down by references to any version of a replica. We already have some great replicas (Mk4, 33 hot rod, and Type 65 Coupe)...

YES! You get it! Not that I thought you didn't, just that with all the PC-ness you've had to display through out this process, the overall direction/future of this project really elevated the anticipation levels. This really is an opportunity to put F5 on the map; beyond the kit industry and everything that is associated with it.


... I have to find the cash in the project for more real scale models I think

*breaks open piggy bank and starts rolling penny rolls*

[Vman7]

Yeah, Ive seen the modified drwgs and am really impressed. What would the top three shapes be right now? From what I read it's Rodney, vmans, Xabiers with changes, and shawn whetstones. Is that fair?


Interest in Rodney's has definitely exploded to #1.
Xabier's has always been well-liked and people were waiting for the detailing work that jim's model received.
Vman's appeals to a lot of folks as long as you don't mind the porsche homage, I like vman's.
Shawn whetstone's has generated some interest as well, but it's hard to gauge.

I'm sure some people also still like nouphone's design. But maybe many converted towards Rodney's from this camp?


Rodney's has lauched upward for me.

I am a staunch porsche advocate, but if it isnt a porsche I don't want it really looking too much like one. Now this may be part of the whole rendering vs real life aspect. But if I wanted a kit car that looked like something else, I woulda built a fiero-rrari by now.

I have always like Nouphone's, but I would much rather ahve the current Rodney design over the existing Nouphone design.

Whetstones looks pretty slick. But there are concerns about the actual dimensions as far as I understand.

Xabiers for me has always been kinda "eh"... but I know that there are many who disagree.

So in my "thumb-to-pinky around the elbow" summation... Yes Dave, that sounds about right.


All good avenues. The porsche influence is tough for me as this HAS to be an FFR distinct design. This is our chance to build further on our brand and a truly HoF design shouldnt be pulled down by references to any version of a replica. We already have some great replicas (Mk4, 33 hot rod, and Type 65 Coupe)... I'm not saying a modified version of Vmans is out for me, I think it would need some distance but I am very respectful of the work.


We're all dying to hear your opinion on Rodney's new design.

Nice to know I am at least being talked about :)

To be honest, I think if I didn't release 918 pics or ever talk about the 918 as baseline and just released where the Vantage is right now, most would not see that much porsche, they would have to look hard, but that's just me.

Would be nice to be considered for consulting along with Rodney on FFR's design, mostly due to that I try to use real world parts like a miata windshield, hella lights through out etc., but I gather that might be wishful thinking....lol

If anything it would be nice to see my Rear be done, seems like that area, not only myself but others really like that part of the car.

David

[Vman7]

All good avenues. The porsche influence is tough for me as this HAS to be an FFR distinct design. This is our chance to build further on our brand and a truly HoF design shouldnt be pulled down by references to any version of a replica. We already have some great replicas (Mk4, 33 hot rod, and Type 65 Coupe)... I'm not saying a modified version of Vmans is out for me, I think it would need some distance but I am very respectful of the work.

Thanks for the compliment Dave :)

[shinn497]

consider me in the nouphone to bansasi camp. Btw i had a chat with xabier today (on fb). It seemed as if he is busy. He said he might revise. If anything it would be a photoshop of the clay model. In addition he had high praise for the Risd students.

[kach22i]

Yeah, Ive seen the modified drwgs and am really impressed. What would the top three shapes be right now? From what I read it's Rodney, vmans, Xabiers with changes, and shawn whetstones. Is that fair?
Yes, this sounds fair/correct.

Please note that when side elevations and rear 3/4 views of Rodney O's design are posted there is a great disparity (not his official work, adaptations and interpretations by others). The front 3/4 view everyone seems to love, but half the people in the forum cannot imagine or agree on the other views and how it all comes together. Seems to me that another model is in order, or at least time required for Rodney "O" to finish up the 3D model which he is currently working on.

Can a new nose, hood vent, and side vent be added to the existing model? You will have to narrow the rear track while you are at it.

[Draco-REX]

"Jellybean car"

This is really apt for a lot of kit designs. I think a big issue is the nature of Fiberglass. While you can do hard edges with it, it doesn't *like* making hard lines and costs can go up. And while Rodney's design might cost a bit more than the other options, it's precisely those hard-to-make elements that will set it apart from other kits. It isn't a jellybean car, it's a hard-edged, snatch-your-eyeballs, "What is that?" whiplash-inducing design that you'd see at the big auto shows. Whether someone likes it or not. It will get a reaction that regular kit cars won't.

Keep the two-layer look with the black panels. Keep the creases and concave accents. These are stand-apart elements.

[Draco-REX]

Can a new nose, hood vent, and side vent be added to the existing model? You will have to narrow the rear track while you are at it.
According to Rodney, the current designs (both blue and orange) fit the template's wheelbase and trackwidth.

[305mouse]

Dave, it's good to see you posting again. I'm sure you still have a ton of things to catch up with. With the designs you listed, those really are the front runners. I liked Xabier's from the get go. But after seeing these other designs become modified and more refined, Xabiers seems pretty tame. I still like it, But Olmos and Vman7 just scream to me/at me.

[kach22i]

According to Rodney, the current designs (both blue and orange) fit the template's wheelbase and trackwidth.
When I said "model" I meant the clay or foam model FFR built true to original concept, flaws and all.

[Dave Smith]

I'm just looking at it from the design goal of HoF quotient and we have maybe three months of time to play with shapes (if I look at the chassis and tooling work we have on our plates, there is still some flex in the shape). Also I am comforted by the fact that the goal all along has been to develop multiple purposed body shapes for the solid chassis. My original favorite was the 818R of Xabir, but that was for a dedicated track car along the lines of the KTM Xbow and the Lotus 211.

I'm really thankful to all you guys and I will say that the rear of Vmans is out-of-the-ballpark cool... THAT is the kind of cutting edge look that is needed for sure, and please dont take the Porsche comments personally as I was simply trying to show that whatever design goes to production, it has alot of masters.

[AVIONX]

Interest in Rodney's has definitely exploded to #1.
Xabier's has always been well-liked and people were waiting for the detailing work that jim's model received.
Vman's appeals to a lot of folks as long as you don't mind the porsche homage, I like vman's.
Shawn whetstone's has generated some interest as well, but it's hard to gauge.

I'm sure some people also still like nouphone's design. But maybe many converted towards Rodney's from this camp?
I feel like Flashburn Has nailed the collective big picture response of this entire forum and all polls.