Drive train location/alignment issues

[Craigpeecobra]

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I am new to the forum. First post because this is the first not obvious problem I have ran into so far. I also have seen no similar posts or issues in other postings. I recently installed the engine and transmission into the frame. The engine and transmission I got as a package from blueprint. The engine is a Ford 306 and the transmission is a tkx 5 speed. The problems were not anything with installing the combo. The problem arose after trying to install the driveshaft and transmission a frame mount. With the engine, transmission, and rear end I installed the drive shaft and found the slip yoke is sitting all the up against the back of the transmission touching the seal. While installing the transmission a frame mount bracket I found The bottom of the transmission is contacting/rubbing the a frame bracket/mount. The instructions state the a frame mount can be installed on top or below the tabs on the frame to create more clearance. I have tried both ways and neither way helps with creating more space the the transmission doesnÂ’t contact the a frame mount. I am wondering what I could have installed incorrectly to cause these issues. It seems like if the engine and transmission sat father forward it would give the correct amount of space for the drive shaft to fit with the correct spacing and the transmission to clear the bracket. I have checked and rechecked the motor mounts and location. Shimming the transmission higher would help with clearing the bracket but not help with the driveshaft issue. Out of ideas and would like a second opinion if maybe I have the wrong mounts, brackets, or driveshaft. Here are pictures to help visualize the issues.

[Craigpeecobra]

Here is also pictures of the engine mounts

[GoDadGo]

Craig,

Check out the attached video and Edwardb's two MK-4 build threads.

U-Joint Alignement & Phasing Video:
https://youtu.be/Idk3BVDVHq4

Edwardb's 20th Aniversary Thread:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardB%92s-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build

You will likely need to do a little shimming here and there to get the input and output shaft alignment adjusted and properly phased.

Steve

[edwardb]

Hard to answer too much with the info and pictures you've provided. With that setup the transmission tailshaft will extend over the frame crossmember a certain amount. If memory serves, about the amount it looks like you have. So that would maybe rule out the engine mounts being installed incorrectly. But can't be sure. There are no pictures of the engine mounts in your second post.

It's totally normal to require spacers between the transmission and the transmission mount. Have never understood why that's not more clearly addressed in the build manual. Probably about 3/4" in my experience. But don't do anything until you can actually measure what you have and what's needed.

You don't mention which rear suspension you have. In any case, there should be some slip joint showing. You can't be crushing the rear seal on the trans like that. Solid axle rear suspensions will move the slip joint some in operation. IRS doesn't because the diff is fixed.

Your driveshaft looks like it's point severely down. Is it attached to the diff? Is your rear suspension at full droop? You can't make any conclusion about driveline angle unless it's attached and your suspension at ride height.

[Craigpeecobra]

Sorry for not clarifying the rear end is a solid axle set up. The suspension is at full droop the chassis is on jack stands. I added pictures of the motor mounts. The picture with the starter visible is the passenger side and oil filter is driver side. I’m not to worried about the tail shaft extending over the frame cross member. But like you clarified the slip yoke is touching the seal. If the vehicle was on The ground it would only get worse. So I can’t seem to figure out why the driveshaft yoke is that close to the transmission when in theory at full droop should be farthest away. Yes the drive shaft is attached to the differential not snugged and tight but mocked up.

[Craigpeecobra]

Craig,

Check out the attached video and Edwardb's MK-4 Coyote Build thread.

U-Joint Alignement & Phasing Video:
https://youtu.be/Idk3BVDVHq4

Edwardb's 20th Aniversary Thread:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardB%92s-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build

You will likely need to do a little shimming here and there to get the input and output shaft alignment adjusted and properly phased.

Steve

Cool video and interesting thread. But not sure how it addresses or pertains to any of the issues I’m running into.

[JohnK]

Is it possible that this is not the correct driveshaft? I'm guessing FFR has different length driveshafts based on engine choice and solid axle vs. IRS. I'd measure the length of the driveshaft you have and contact FFR to make sure you have the correct one.

[edwardb]

Motor mounts look right. And as I said before, where the tailshaft is falling on the crossmember looks about right. Also as I said before, you will need a spacer under the transmission mount. But agree the most likely issue is you have the wrong driveshaft. Factory Five lists a 11.25" driveshaft part number 16350 for your combination. Is that what's on your order and can you confirm the length? A driveshaft of the proper length should be able to be installed with both the transmission and diff in place. With the driveshaft pushed into the transmission and just touching the seal, you should be able to get it onto the diff adapter. Then when pulled into place against the diff, some of the slip joint will be exposed. Somewhere in the 1" range, give or take.

[GoDadGo]

Is it possible that this is not the correct driveshaft? I'm guessing FFR has different length driveshafts based on engine choice and solid axle vs. IRS. I'd measure the length of the driveshaft you have and contact FFR to make sure you have the correct one.

Here is Edwardb's solid axle build thread which may help: however, if the drive shaft is too long then that issue needs to be addressed.

Edwardb's SBF Solid Axle Build Thread:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?8296-Mk4-7750-Build-Progress-Update

Good Luck, Don't Throw Tools, Happy Wrenching & Watch Your Pinkies!

[rich grsc]

Hard to tell for sure, but I don't see a transmission mount? The transmission should not set on the frame tube, I agree it seems the driveshaft isn't the correct length.

[Hoooper]

Send a shaft measurement to FFR to make sure the driveshaft is the right one. The TKX and the TKO are supposed to be the same dimensions (for length) so the driveshaft should still be right. The shape of the TKX though is different from the TKO so that may explain the issues with the a-frame. It looks in pictures like the lower rear of the TKX does extend a bit further back which would be where the interference you are showing is at. Before getting too excited about that I would be inclined to see if you are going to need any spacers under the trans mount to get the driveline angles right. If you need as much spacer as most on here seem to need with TKO/solid rear then your interference might disappear.

[edwardb]

If you look at the side-by-side of the TKO vs the TKX, doesn't appear there's any difference in the trans mounting area. It's thinner and more compact in the main body area. But not back there. They did remove the mounting bracket that always have to be cut off on the TKO.

https://i2.wp.com/americanpowertrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/TKOvsTKX-scaled.jpg?resize=1024%2C888&ssl=1

[rthomas98]

As a sanity check I would set the car on the ground so everything is sitting ride height and check your angles their. Although I have a T5 in mine I ended up doing that and then adjusted the pinion angle it all lined up. I got 2 sets of wheel cribs from race ramps so I can shimmy under and look while sitting at ride height. Not the prettiest method but it worked.

[Craigpeecobra]

When measured the drive shaft does look to be 11.25 which factory five has said should be the correct driveshaft for the package. I can pull it out and take a picture of it next to the tape measure. The car currently has no wheels so putting it on the ground isn’t an option. Also have not received front spindles yet. So I could use a floor jack and put pressure on the rear end and simulate it being loaded on the ground. I have also installed spacers of different sizes to see if that helps. The problem in my mind is that the spacers seem to make no significant difference in how far the yoke sits up against the back of the transmission. So I don’t think drive line angle is relevant yet because in theory the suspension is at full droop so the yoke should be at its farthest out point. If I simulate it being on the ground and put some tension on the suspension the yoke would only be moved farther forward which in my case seems to exaggerating the problem. Does that seem logical or make sense?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Pinion angle (i.e. length of the upper link) can make a significant impact since the rear axle will rotate forward or rearward about the fixed point of the LCA depending on the upper link adjustment. To get a rough "ballpark" setting get the rear end on jackstands with the weight of the chassis on the springs. Adjust the coilovers so that you have about 1.5-2" of collar showing which will approximate a 4.5" ride height then adjust the upper link so that the nose of the pinion is 2 degrees down in relation to the transmission output. Let us know how things look after doing that.

Jeff

[Craigpeecobra]

Ok so I took the driveshaft out it’s on the bench with a tape measure next to it. End to end it’s about 16 inches. End to beginning of the slip yoke is very close to 11.25. Does anyone know what point your supposed to measure from? Also used spacers on the transmission side and adjusted the upper link so the rear axle is at about 2 degrees and the tail shaft is at about 2 degrees. I used the TREMEC app so it might. Or be perfect but in theory they are close in the ball park. Driveshaft is no where near fitting correctly. I’m thinking driveshaft has got to be incorrect. Any thoughts ?

[David Williamson]

They measure from the flange to the beginning of the slip yoke so yes you have an 11.25 drive shaft. Sure looks like you need a shorter drive shaft.
David W

[michael everson]

http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/60450-gen-3-coupe-31-spline-10-50-driveshaft/
Just looked on FFRs web site and this is the closest I could find that might work for you. Sounds like something may have changed with the new TKX transmission as far as length. I would call or email them again and get this resolved. Doesnt look like your doing anything wrong.
Mike