Hans in a Roadster

[Railroad]

I have been watching videos of human body response to frontal impact in autos with 5 pt harnesses.
I am rethinking wearing my shoulder straps for street driving and certainly looking into a HANS for any future auto crossing.
Can some of you competition roadster drivers comment on the best options?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSaiZuzNMSY&t=11s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g40YatgE_CE

[facultyofmusic]

This has been a serious concern for me as well. I'm all for wearing a Hans device when driving the roadster, what I'm looking for are Hans device compatible helmets that are road legal. AFAIK Some states don't allow fully enclosed helmets to be used on the road due to the restricted vision through the visor. I'm subscribing to this thread!

[Bob Cowan]

In competition, I think not wearing some kind of head and neck support is just silly. Even a horse collar is better than nothing. Personally, I use an Isaacs device. I think it provides better all around support than a Simpson device.

You can add the attachment points for a Simpson or Isaacs device to any helmet. Just drill a couple of holes and bolt it on.

All of these devices severely restrict lateral head movement. I would not recommend wearing one for the street.

[NAZ]

Wearing a lap belt only will not improve your odds of avoiding serious injury.

[Railroad]

Maybe this is a better question. Should the shoulder harness be worn for street, highway driving?
I felt safer wearing mine, but the videos do not support my feelings.
I guess it is whether you want to do a face plant or risk a skull spine separation.
Not trying to stir anything, just wanting to make the better choice.

[acmikee]

This has been a serious concern for me as well. I'm all for wearing a Hans device when driving the roadster, what I'm looking for are Hans device compatible helmets that are road legal. AFAIK Some states don't allow fully enclosed helmets to be used on the road due to the restricted vision through the visor. I'm subscribing to this thread!

if you feel the need to wear a helmet and a Hans maybe you shouldn't be driving these cars

[Jim1855]

I always wore the lap & shoulder harnesses also had a taller full width roll bar. This was in my previous cars. The current Challenge Car has even more protection and will have Kirkey track seats.

How are the belts attached and at what angle to your body? There are specifications for this and for most people I think the shoulder belts are mounted too low.

I think you need to make semi-rational decisions on what you are trying to protect yourself and passenger from. Rear ended, side hit, front hit, roll over and at what speeds? If a truck broadsides you a helmet and belts are of limited value. If you drive stupid and tip over the factory issued roll bar may not function as expected.

If you want to minimize the potential of skull spine separation drive without your head or at least w/o a brain, seems to be a fairly popular method judging from what I've seen.

Life is full of perils, everyone dies, a Cobra may just hasten the inevitable. And yes, I'm full of good cheer and optimism.

Jim

[Railroad]

I always wore the lap & shoulder harnesses also had a taller full width roll bar. This was in my previous cars. The current Challenge Car has even more protection and will have Kirkey track seats.

How are the belts attached and at what angle to your body? There are specifications for this and for most people I think the shoulder belts are mounted too low.

I think you need to make semi-rational decisions on what you are trying to protect yourself and passenger from. Rear ended, side hit, front hit, roll over and at what speeds? If a truck broadsides you a helmet and belts are of limited value. If you drive stupid and tip over the factory issued roll bar may not function as expected.

If you want to minimize the potential of skull spine separation drive without your head or at least w/o a brain, seems to be a fairly popular method judging from what I've seen.

Life is full of perils, everyone dies, a Cobra may just hasten the inevitable. And yes, I'm full of good cheer and optimism.

Jim
I can think of something else you are full of.
Did I miss the color of the steering wheel?

[NAZ]

Railroad, an Air Force buddy of mine I used to fly SAR with worked on a vehicle restraint systems research effort for the Air Force back in the 60's at the Kirtland Air Base Research Center near White Sands in New Mexico. Uniquely qualified to lead this research, he had a BS in Mechanical Engineering and was also an MD & AF Flight Surgeon. This was before computer simulations were possible, computers or even calculators where years in the future when this leading edge research was conducted. So their crash testing was done with orangutans to simulate humans.

He's very adamant that wearing a lap belt with shoulder restraint is far superior to a lap belt only. He told me that 100% of the live test participants died of severed necks when crashing with only a lap belt. Far less suffered life threatening injuries when using a lap belt with either a single or double shoulder restraint. Wearing the lap belt only caused severe whip effect as the forward motion transition to a rotation at the end of travel significantly accelerating the head and the sudden change in direction along the longitudinal axis of the spine resulted in severing cervical vertebrae.

This was at a time that seat belts weren't required in new cars. But soon after a lap belt AND shoulder restraint were required and that's because testing shows there is an advantage to wearing both. So choose wisely.

[Bob Cowan]

Proper installation is pretty important.

https://bucketeer-6a1c3869-11ee-400c-8e6c-029add2ed33c.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com//app/public/spree/theme_assets/24071/original/Simpson-Performance-Seating-Positions-Seatbelt-Installation-Manual.pdf?1597761029

[J R Jones]

I competed in SCCA Nationals when a roll bar and open face helmet were required. More recently we raced La Carrera across Mexico and full FIA rules, cage, Hans, etc were required. It worked, we had a severe high speed incident with no injuries and were fortunate to have not rolled. Not all competition is the same; autocross is not the same as a track day. Appropriate safety requirements will vary. One thing not mentioned here which concerns me is flipping or rolling without arm restraint. Your head may survive but if your arms get between the car parts and the ground, it will be consequential. A (window) net will save your left arm, but the right arm is still at risk.

150932

[Railroad]

The unrestrained arms have concerned me, also. I since have become aware of those arm restraints that connect your arms with a strap. One arm cannot move outside the limits of the strap and other arms range of travel. I think I saw them on open wheel dirt track racers.

[CraigS]

Driving an FFR is safer than riding a motorcycle. Is it as safe as a current NASCAR car or even a current street car w/ 6 airbags? No, of course not. There are several versions of head restraints beside a Hans, but as far as I know, they all need a helmet to work. To help lesson the damage from a face hitting the steering wheel you could look into making a pad for the steering wheel center. Search for roll bar padding material which will probably explain the different types of material used and then look for that material in a flat form to make your pad. To add another thought to this discussion, if you use the should belts you MUST use the crotch strap too. The lap belt should be holding your hips in position. W/o the crotch strap, when you tighten the shoulder belts, that will pull the lap belt up to where it is restraining your internal organs rather than your hip bones. Ideally the crotch strap should come up through a hole in the seat. This is critical in a laydown seating position like a formula car. There is is more of an anti-submarining strap keeping the body from sliding under the belts toward the front of the car. In our FFRs I find bringing the crotch strap up over the front of the seat works just fine to keep the lap belt in position. We sit upright enough that we don't really need the anti-submarining action.

[NAZ]

Railroad, you built the wrong car. The Coupe would have been a safer choice.

So sell the roaster and build a coupe -- you know you want to. I see you're in Bama and having lived in Huntsville, I'm familiar with summers there. Tell the wife you're going to build a safer car with a top and A/C for those humid summer cruises into town. So she'll be more comfortable.

[Glen Davis]

Here is a crash my son had while racing. He had a 5-point system with his helmet but no helmet or arm restraints. He rolled into a ball, let the car do its thing and went for the ride. He came out with just seat belt/should harness bruises. http://www.oceanstreetvideo.com/download6.html

[Railroad]

Railroad, you built the wrong car. The Coupe would have been a safer choice.

So sell the roaster and build a coupe -- you know you want to. I see you're in Bama and having lived in Huntsville, I'm familiar with summers there. Tell the wife you're going to build a safer car with a top and A/C for those humid summer cruises into town. So she'll be more comfortable.

Great Suggestion! She does like riding in the 13 Shelby GT500 or 99 Mustang Cobra, or the 66 Mustang 2+2. We sold the T-Bucket that had terrible brakes, no seat belts when purchased, suicide front end, no doors, no roll bar, etc. I had some yuppies in BMW pull up next to us and ask, Is that thing safe? I told them, safer than a motorcycle.

150951

I really appreciate the input on the subject, even from those that tend to bloviate. I refer back to my original post. I was just trying to get educated on the HANS. The conversation went from side impacts to roll overs, on and on. I must have reached an age when, I drive slower, more conservative and aware of what can happen.
Anyway, we'll keep cruising and try to be safe.

[Rdone585]

Naz, I too lived in Huntsville from 82 to 91, south by the Tennessee River. Fond memories from living there and fishing on lake Guntersville. Will never forget the ice storm that left 6 inches of ice on the highway for many days. Haven't been back for many years though, still visit family on the Warrior River outside of B'ham.

[Railroad]

Naz, I too lived in Huntsville from 82 to 91, south by the Tennessee River. Fond memories from living there and fishing on lake Guntersville. Will never forget the ice storm that left 6 inches of ice on the highway for many days. Haven't been back for many years though, still visit family on the Warrior River outside of B'ham.

Good to hear from former neighbors. Huntsville is loaded with hot rodders. Lotsa good guys. I retired from the railroad that switched BirmingPort on the Warrior River. I spent a lot of years down there.