Looking for some help on engine start...

[Gmcole92]

Folks,

I'm trying to diagnosis why my FFR Roadster won't start consistently. Though I built the car, I bought a crate engine and i'm not very experienced with these big motors. I'm looking for any step by step guides that you may have come across (I didn't find anything through search). Anything will be helpful.

My car is always a bit slow to turnover when it hasn't been run in a while but I have never had it not start. I have checked all the things I know to look for but i'm not making any progress.

427 manufactured by the Engine Factory. Holley carb. Very simple setup. 700 miles on it. Ran it with no issues about a month ago. Battery is fully charged and the starter is engine and turning over the engine. Fuel is going into the carb as it should so the fuel pump appears to be working. Electric choke appears to be in the expected position. The thing just won't start...not even close.

Thanks in advance for help.

[egchewy79]

Air, Fuel, Spark.
have you messed with the carb at all? maybe needs to be tuned to get the appropriate mix of air/fuel.
sounds like you're getting fuel to the bowl.
do you have spark? you can get an inline spark plug tester. is your coil good? do you need to advance/retard your timing?

[Railroad]

If the battery and cables are all good, check your base timing. You should be able to back it down 2* without any noticeable reduction in everyday driving.
I would double check the battery voltage prior to trying to start. Make sure your cables on the battery, ground, both ends and starter are all clean and tight. If you have a battery disconnect, check the connections on it and turn off when parking the car. If that helps, you might have a drain on the battery.
A lot of carb engine owners do not know how to start a cold carbed engine. If you have a carb choke, it should be positioned by pressing the gas pedal to the floor and releasing on a cold engine.
Hope some of this cures your issues.

[GTBradley]

"slow to turn over" immediately leads me to, is the starter in good health and is it appropriately sized for the engine. The other adage of air/fuel/spark is good but fuel can be no fuel, too little fuel, too low of pressure and to much fuel. Too much fuel in the form of rich running condition will foul the spark plugs. Pull one of them out of the engine and see if it is coated with black soot. You can check spark at that time too.

[NAZ]

Folks,

I'm trying to diagnosis why my FFR Roadster won't start consistently. Though I built the car, I bought a crate engine and i'm not very experienced with these big motors. I'm looking for any step by step guides that you may have come across (I didn't find anything through search). Anything will be helpful.

My car is always a bit slow to turnover when it hasn't been run in a while but I have never had it not start. I have checked all the things I know to look for but i'm not making any progress.

427 manufactured by the Engine Factory. Holley carb. Very simple setup. 700 miles on it. Ran it with no issues about a month ago. Battery is fully charged and the starter is engine and turning over the engine. Fuel is going into the carb as it should so the fuel pump appears to be working. Electric choke appears to be in the expected position. The thing just won't start...not even close.

Thanks in advance for help.

Always start with the basics and it bears repeating: AIR, FUEL, and SPARK. All in the proper amount at the proper time.

You don't give much to go on for others to help so a video would add some perspective.

Here are some of the points of interest:

A month ago it ran with no issues. What's changed? What have you worked on since the last time it ran?

It's always a bit slow to turnover when it hasn't been run in awhile. What is your definition of slow? Cranks slower than normal or barley turns over? Why? Is the battery producing lower than 12.6-volts at rest when this occurs?

You said the fuel is going into the carb as it should -- what does that mean? Are the fuel bowels full (half way up the sight glass) and is fuel being drawn through the boosters when you crank it? If so, there's your AIR & FUEL requirement.

... won't start, not even close. Does that mean there's no evidence of it firing at all? Have you checked for spark from the coil or at least one of the plugs? What's your base timing set at?

You said you checked all the things you know to look for. OK, what are those things? No way we can guess. When you check things, some are go-no go and some have specific measurements.

You said the battery is fully charged -- how did you determine this? Some think that if the headlights come on the battery is fully charged. The battery being fully charged has a specific measurement and with modern closed batteries that would be voltage across the posts. You want to see at least 12.6-volts. And better yet, battery voltage while you're cranking the engine would help determine if you have a bad battery. Battery voltage at the starter while cranking would help determine if you have a bad connection.

You have to give us something to go on if you expect to get good troubleshooting advice.

[Gmcole92]

A quick thanks for all of the quick responses. I'm going to work through the suggestions tonight when I resurface from my work day. For some reason, i'm thinking i have an ignition or timing issue. Answering a few questions from NAZ

A month ago it ran with no issues. What's changed? What have you worked on since the last time it ran? - I have done nothing. I ran the car for a couple hours, put it on the lift and didn't touch it until yesterday. When I last ran it, the battery was low so I had to jump it. I charged the battery that day and it started right up once complete. Since then, I have trickle charged the battery and verified it is fully changed with a voltmeter. The starter is cranking fast so I assume the battery is fine now.

It's always a bit slow to turnover when it hasn't been run in awhile. What is your definition of slow? Cranks slower than normal or barley turns over? Why? Is the battery producing lower than 12.6-volts at rest when this occurs? - See above. When the batter gets a bit low, the starter cranks noticeably slower....but that's not what is going on now.


You said the fuel is going into the carb as it should -- what does that mean? Are the fuel bowels full (half way up the sight glass) and is fuel being drawn through the boosters when you crank it? If so, there's your AIR & FUEL requirement. - This is an area I need to look at again. Last night it appeared the bowls were full and fuel is coming through the carb. Let me see if I can get a bettter look.

... won't start, not even close. Does that mean there's no evidence of it firing at all? Have you checked for spark from the coil or at least one of the plugs? What's your base timing set at? - No evidence of firing at all. Like a lot of old school engines, I sometime have has it partially fire but it take a few tries to get it to start. That's been normal operation when cold. Now, there is no firing at all. The starter is cranking but nothing appears to be igniting.


You said you checked all the things you know to look for. OK, what are those things? No way we can guess. When you check things, some are go-no go and some have specific measurements. - By this I meant battery voltage and connections, making sure the carb wasn't obviously clogged, checked the connections to the electric choke, basic inspection of the belts.


You said the battery is fully charged -- how did you determine this? Some think that if the headlights come on the battery is fully charged. The battery being fully charged has a specific measurement and with modern closed batteries that would be voltage across the posts. You want to see at least 12.6-volts. And better yet, battery voltage while you're cranking the engine would help determine if you have a bad battery. Battery voltage at the starter while cranking would help determine if you have a bad connection. - Great suggestions....I'll try to get voltage at the starter to rule some things out.

[Avalanche325]

Ok. "turn over" can have two different meanings, especially in the south. It can mean that when you hit the key, the starter is turning the engine very slowly. Or, it can mean that it is spinning like it should, but won't start. It can also mean a fruit filled pastry if you make it one word, so there is three.

In case you are not familiar with carbureted engines, they all have their own personality when starting. However, you usually have to give them a shot of fuel before you hit the starter when they are cold. Mine likes a full push of the gas pedal if it hasn't run for a while. Sometimes two. If you don't give them a squirt, they have nothing to run on when you hit the key.

[NAZ]

OK, good start. I suggest you confirm you have spark at the coil tower. Pull the coil wire at the cap and hold the end a ~1/4" from a good engine ground and have a helper crank the engine over a couple spins while you look for a healthy spark. No spark, trouble shoot the ignition system.

If you have spark, get me your base timing. You can do that with your helper cranking the engine over while you work the timing light. Let's make sure it hasn't moved and is reasonably close enough it should fire. If you have an old school ignition you can set the base timing without cranking the car. Simply bar the engine in the correct rotation to bring #1 up on the compression stroke with your timing pointer set to the base timing value given to you by your engine builder. Loosen the distributor hold down so you can easily rotate the distributor. Rotate the distributor forward about 10-degrees then pull #1 plug if you haven't already to find the compression stroke. Attach the plug wire and ground the plug where you can see it while turning the distributor cap. With the ignition switch in the run position, slowly turn the cap in reverse rotation and immediately stop when you see a spark. Without allowing the distributor to rotate, tighten the hold down and reinstall the #1 plug.

Not sure which way the distributor rotates? Here the way country boys figure it out. If it has a vacuum can think of that like a fishing reel with the line being fed into the nipple on the vacuum can. The can is offset from the center line of the distributor just like a fair-lead on a fishing reel. The distributor normally turns the direction that the fishing line would be winding around the spool like you're reeling in a fish. This works for all distributors with vacuum advance. No need to remember that Ford distributors turn backward (what do you expect, the designers put the distributor on the wrong end).

After the ignition system checks out, go back and confirm the fuel level in the carb is half way up the sight glass (or reasonably close) and watch when you have someone crank the engine that it is pulling fuel from the boosters at WOT. Careful looking into a carb -- backfires can burn your eyebrows. Not that I've ever done that in 60 plus years of looking down carbs.

[gbranham]

Timing gets my vote. Will be interested to see how it turns out.

[Railroad]

I am going with,
1. Low battery
2. Base timing
3. Blown head gasket leaking anti freeze in #7 cyl, just kidding.