Cheapest way into a turn-key SBF...?

[Tremelune]

I'm pricing out a Cobra build, and I'm trying to understand what I'm getting into for an engine. A big part of my struggle is straight-up ignorance: The only Ford V8s I’ve had were in giant trucks, and the car I'm building is a tiny canyon-carver that will bounce off the rev limiter.

My thought was that I could spend ~$8k for a Blueprint engine and then probably wish I’d done something a bit differently, or I could put the cheapest 302 in there just to get it on the road, see how it behaves, and use that real-world knowledge to eventually build the "real" engine down the road with a much greater chance of getting something I’m thrilled with after the Big Spend.

Looking on eBay, I’m seeing V8s from ’93-95 Mustangs going for like $5k…Seeing as this isn’t far off from a Coyote, I was a bit taken aback…I was expecting more like $500…Is the "junkyard 302" a thing of the past, because they all need machining/rebuilding by now or what? Should I be content with a lumbering truck engine?

What are people doing for cheapo SBFs these days (including manual transmission)? What are all the things I would need from a wreck to have a running, driving car after the transplant? Does the stock ECU freak out such that I'd need to buy an intake/carb? Any other weird crap I should know about...?

[ggunter]

Are you seeing the 93-95 Mustangs as whole cars because you should be able to get the whole 26 year old car for less then 5K. Then you would have a whole drive train. Thes ones I've seen are 3-5k depending on miles. They just aren't worth any more then that.

[Tremelune]

I was hoping to also use the transmission (which I believe is a T5). It's harder to find examples with clutch pedals.

Even so, the cheapest buy-it-now on eBay is like $10k...

[chmhasy]

Welcome to the madness, I would suggest looking over some of the builds from this forum with a 302 T5 combination, as the 302 can be built with a lot of HP.
Try car-parts.com for local sources of car parts. you may be able to find a good motor to start with
also check out the Factory five youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/F5RTube for different drive train combinations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpjwKZEgzj8

[skidd]

I found a 1999 Explorer 302 on craigslist for $500. 99k miles, runner. GTP heads and all that jaz. Sold off the parts I didn't need for around $350. Turns out fox owners like explorer parts. I Put on a stealth intake, used e303 cam, used 600cfm carb, new '95 mustang dizzy...etc. She's been running strong for about 2 years. No regrets at all. Plenty of power.

Found a used t5z on CL for $400. It was a 2011 model a guy bought for a failed fox project. Again... Holding strong. The t5z has excellent 1st and 2nd gear ratios BTW.

Used sn95 front spindles, sn95 8.8 with 3.55 gears. PBR front calipers (with a fortune on rockauto as a core)... Fox booster and 15/16 master. All for $350.

If you watch, you'll find a deal or 2 you can't pass up. I loved hunting down good parts for good prices. And don't be afraid of running a used motor. They don't all need rebuilds.

[weendoggy]

My choice is always a SBF (think Ford BB SBF or Dart) in these cars. You can get more than enough power from one for your use, and you'll find all kinds of options. Plus, BIG added point is, ease of working on if needed. They fit the chassis perfectly. A T5 is fine and if treated well and rebuilt well, can last a long time. Start with a good chassis build and suspension/brakes and then upgrade the power as you feel down the road, or, start out with the total expected package and learn to drive safely.

[phileas_fogg]

Send a PM to scottiec on this forum. He's been down the road you're considering. It took him 2 blocks (I think) before he got one without an issue that killed it. When he found the right block, he built the engine up from there. Scott's a good dude; I'm sure he'll have plenty of informative stories to tell.


John

[Bobby Doug]

Just be aware that a T5 is only good for 350 hp. This is more than adequate for a warmed over 302. If you plan on upgrading to a more powerful engine down the road you will need to upgrade to a TKO/X. This could possibly require a different bell housing and a better clutch assembly. Something to think about when deciding a engine/transmission purchase and future upgrades.

[CraigS]

Widen your search to include 351s. That way, later you can go to as much as a 408 w/ that stock block and a stroker kit. You could put in a bone stock 351 and a T5 would still be OK. There are several engine parts manufacturers (Edelbrock, Twisted Wedge) who offer top end kits for a 351. Cam, heads, springs, intake etc and you can get to 400hp and a little more w/ the stock compression ratio. If you start w/ a 351 you will have intake and exhaust that fit it and are different from those fitting a 302. I think you theory of getting on the road less expensively, get more experience and have chances to talk to others about other combinations and ride in some of them is a great idea. One other thought is find any local mustang clubs. Keep checking their sale ads because they like to do upgrades too, and their old engine/trans can often be had inexpensively. A friend used to do a lot of 60s Mustang work and had a customer come to him who wanted his car put back to it's proper engine trans configuration. When it was done my friend asked what he was going to do w/ the old parts, a 302 and T5. The guy said he couldn't care less. My friend said I have a friend building an FFR so would you sell them for $500. Heck yeah was his answer. I know that may be rare but ya never know.

[rich grsc]

Here we go--question "the cheapest easiest SBF", a "tiny canyon carver"
Oh you need a TKO, no you don't, it's a 2300# car, not a 3500# Mustang, anything under 450-500hp is fine unless you're racing it, then yes
Oh get a 351, well maybe, but then you're going a bit above "cheapest easiest"
Everyone here is going to push up the build and the cost, Just be aware:rolleyes:

[CraigS]

My craigs list 351 short block was $150.

[rich grsc]

Great find. :) Can't say that wasn't a bargain.

[Tremelune]

500hp in a 2,500 lb car has a power-to-weight ratio approaching a Bugatti Veyron. I don't think I need that kind of scoot to rev it out in the mountains and canyons. 250-300hp in these cars is something like an AWD Tesla. I have plenty of fun in my bone-stock MGB, and it's the slowest car I've ever driven. I for sure want (a lot) more power than that, but I'm not looking to go crazy. If you can't hold your foot on the floor for a few seconds as you scream up a mountain...where's the fun?

Numbers don't tell the whole story, of course, which is why I'm contemplating an "interim" motor in the first place. Some people say 300hp in these cars is plenty plenty. Others say people get bored of it in a week. I guess it depends on how/where they drive and what they're used to. In addition, someone who mostly cruises from car show to car show will enjoy low-end torque, whereas I seem to enjoy peak power near 7k RPM on a spirited drive...I might be wrong about it, and I don't want to build a $10k motor that's only suitable for a heavy truck or an actual race car...

Blocks and heads are pretty easy to come by...It's everything else that's tricky. I have no engine internals or externals—intake, carb/EFI, distributor/coils/plugs/wires, water pump, alternator, etc. When you start with a block, buy everything you need, and pay a machinist/builder...my numbers just don't come under a turn-key Blueprint engine, for example.

That's why I'm hoping to start with something fairly complete, and cheap in its completeness. It looks like fuel-injected Explorers/Mountaineers might be the way to go. I probably wouldn't notice extra 50 pounds from iron heads.

This is helpful, thank you!

[timwert65]

Tremeline,
I sent you a PM

[narly1]

The challenge as I see it with a salvage engine while cheap, is finding a good one. Meaning one that you can drop in and trust to be trouble-free for many miles. Ideally you'd find one still in the vehicle and get to hear it run, check compression, oil/coolant condition/appearance, etc. before pulling it out.

The other route would be to remove all doubt and rebuild it anyways. That's where I'm at with mine, not cheap, but a rewarding process and at the end of the day I'll know what I have.

[CraigS]

The challenge as I see it with a salvage engine while cheap, is finding a good one. Meaning one that you can drop in and trust to be trouble-free for many miles. Ideally you'd find one still in the vehicle and get to hear it run, check compression, oil/coolant condition/appearance, etc. before pulling it out.

The other route would be to remove all doubt and rebuild it anyways. That's where I'm at with mine, not cheap, but a rewarding process and at the end of the day I'll know what I have.

Agreed. There are rebuilds and then there are rebuilds. The advantage of at least pulling the heads, pan and a couple of rod and main caps is you can see whether it is a decent engine or not. Bearings still all silver color and lack of ridge at the top of the bore says put in new bearing inserts, do a quick minimal hone and install new rings. All new seals and gaskets, H2O pump and maybe a new oil pump, and timing chain/gear set will have you GTG for another 75-100,000 miles.