Ethan's Mk IV Build [Archive] - Factory Five Forums

sohcrates

06-12-2021, 10:55 AM

Hey All!

I have been lurking in these parts for some 15 years, waiting for the right time to jump off the cliff. Well, my son is old enough to help, and work is quiet enough. Throw in a pandemic that caused a little too much time at home and I placed my order back in December. Couldn't be more excited. I have a pretty busy life, so I think progress will be slow, but that's OK, its all about the journey, right? I want a nice looking cruiser that may see an occassional track day at some point down the road, but no serious racing on the track or the strip.

I ordered a complete Kit Roadster with the following options:

Powdercoated Chassis
Body Cut outs
Low Back vintage race seats. (I'm 6'2" and live in Massachussets (for now) so I was lucky enough to visit the factory a couple of years back. The regular seats were definitely a problem for me fitting in the car, but they still had to look right.)
Power Steering
2015 IRS
FFR GPS gauges
17" Staggered Halibrand Replica Wheels
Polished over riders
Wind Wings
Sun Visors
Wipers
Battery Cut off switch
Glovebox
Heater
Dual Chrome Roll Bars
Side Louvers
Center Dash Support
Trunk Gas Strut Kit

My powertrain plan is to have Mike Forte build me a Dart block Fuel Injected 347 with Aluminum heads and a TKX transmission. I haven't ordered it yet, as I don't really want to store that while I'm getting the car built. I'm leaning towards GasN touring pipes. I already have the firewall forward kit from FF Metal so I can do the heater and the glovebox. Not sure where the battery is going yet.

While I was waiting, I spent a little time cleaning out space in the garage and getting organized. I made a frame dolly and collected tools and supplies. I wanted to Go to the build school at Mott, but COVID strikes again and they cancelled everything all winter. Spring and Summer are too busy for me to escape for a long weekend, but maybe if I still want to do it, I'll think about it in the fall.

My Kit was ready April 3rd, and my son and I went to pick it up on April 6th. We are fortunate to be able to store the body in my mom's garage, so we hung it there while we are waiting to be ready for it. My Parts Order List of missing items was very long. I guess COVID has caused unusual supplier issues. Lots of front suspension items on the list, along with things like seats and roll bars that I won't need for a while.

I spent a lot of time inventorying the kit, and keeping things organized. I wasn't expecting so many things to be missing in addition to the long POL list. I had about 20 or 30 items that were supposedly in the kit, but weren't there. I spent a lot of time searching for things I might have missed, but sure enough, they were all missing. Big ticket items like a pedal box and Koni shocks. FFR was good about getting me all those parts reasonably quickly, but I did spend a lot of extra time looking for them during inventory.

Taking all of the aluminum off the frame went pretty quickly, even though I took my time with markings and labelling to stay organized.

I'm really excited to be moving forward with my dream car, and look forward to actually participating in the forums! I'm sure initially I will be mostly learning, but hopefully before too long, I can also be helping others to learn from my experiences.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150245&d=1625317491
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150250&d=1625317556
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150260&d=1625317653

sohcrates

06-12-2021, 11:07 AM

So I finally got enough parts from my POL to get started on the front suspension. I got the F panels on easily enough. I had to redrill a couple of the factory holes on one side to make it fit right, but not too bad. I'm using a Campbell Hausfeld air riveter, and am very happy I went that route.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150280&d=1625317733

I had some trouble getting the first ball joint in the upper control arm. Enough so that I broke my vise!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150278&d=1625317733

After a couple hour interlude to buy and install a newer, stronger vise, I was able to get the ball joints in. Only scraped off a little powder coat from one control arm while I was at it. (Should I worry about rust?) I had some trouble getting the UCA's bolted on as well. First blood has been drawn. Time for a beer break when both hands are bleeding.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150279&d=1625317733

Finally got all four bolts in for the UCAs. Those rear ones were a bear. I couldn't really get an open ended wrench on them, and there wasn't room to get a socket on them either. I just found on someone else's thread where they stuck a screwdriver between the locknut and the frame to hold the nut still. Doh! Should have thought of that. Might have a little more knuckle skin left.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150281&d=1625317751

Now I am sort of on hold again. I don't have spindles or the lower control arms. I've had my kit for over 2 months, and still waiting...

I'd start the rear suspension, but I am getting the diff center section and rear brakes from Mike Forte, and haven't gotten those yet either...

I guess I'll have to find something else to work on.

460.465USMC

06-13-2021, 10:31 PM

Welcome aboard, Ethan! Looks like a nice build you have planned.

hineas

06-14-2021, 01:43 AM

Welcome! I'm excited to read along and see your build!

The POL can be painful, but they will get you the parts as quick as they can.

egchewy79

06-14-2021, 07:25 AM

those upper ball joints can be a bear. I had to take a wire wheel to the anticorrosive coating on the threads to get mine to fit in. Almost ripped my bench vise off the benchtop trying to get them threaded in before reading about removing the coating.

sohcrates

06-14-2021, 03:45 PM

Thanks folks for the welcome!!

Removing that coating never occurred to me for sure.... No matter how much you look around this forum, you can't see it all! Once I toughened up my vise things went OK. The small clamp on vise didn't stand a chance! I was shaking my whole bench around when I was trying to get the first one on. The next one went much better, but I did manage to scrape off a little bit of powder coating on the control arm with the vise. Do you guys think I should put some paint on that to protect it?

NYMike

06-15-2021, 08:36 PM

Welcome to the madness! Looks like its going to be a great build. The POL situation is a bit frustrating but you can definitely skip around and keep yourself busy for a while. For the paint we have been hitting any scrapes and scuffs on the frame with some rattle can Rustoleum satin black enamel. I'm sure there are other options as well but its been a pretty good match for us. Also, since you're doing power steering, you should check out all of the posts on here about modifying the upper control arms to get more caster adjustment. I can't personally say that its needed as we don't have spindles either and cant do any alignment, but it seems the consensus is it's needed and we did it. Can't wait to follow along with your build.

sohcrates

06-16-2021, 04:52 AM

Thanks Mike! I appreciate the tip about the rustoleum, and I had also stumbled across the alignment issues. I also had seen your build. What awesome pictures you have! Your build looks great.

sohcrates

06-29-2021, 01:12 PM

Hey guys,

Slow couple of weeks on the build. As in nothing done. Busy end of school year and opening up of summer cottage and throw in a couple of funerals. Then there's been the mental block I've had not wanting to dig into certain sections without all of the parts I need. I think I am past that, but I sure would like my front spindles and lower control arms. In the mean time I've decided to make the modification to the front upper control arms in order to make sure I can get enough caster. I figure if I screw up the cuts bad enough that I will have time to get new parts while I wait for spindles and LCAs. I plan to use a hacksaw, perhaps a jigsaw, and if needed, a dremel with a cut off wheel. I am about ready to get started but I did wonder, did you guys put any paint on the parts after cutting them? Do you worry about rust down the road? Both my sleeves and the male threaded rods are all coated black, unlike a lot of the pictures I have seen of other people's builds. Mine look like yours Mike, and Carl and Phil as well.

sohcrates

06-29-2021, 04:19 PM

Well I managed to get in a couple of hours today. After poring through the forums for hours on end, I finally decided to cut the upper control arm sleeves and threaded ends to make sure I have enough caster adjustment. This forum really is amazing. I have known for years that it was a huge reason to go with factory five in the first place, but not until it starts solving problems and giving you ideas do you really understand just how amazing this community is.

So I took apart one UCA and played with it, looking at how I might cut it, and I think I'm to the point where I can get past my fear of cutting into perfectly good parts without the benefit of a machine shop. I'll do that next time I sit down to work. You guys with power steering all cut 3/16" to 1/4" off of each end of the rear sleeves and rod ends, correct?

I also got the front shocks put together and mounted to the frame. Since I'm about to be stuck on the front suspension without spindles or lower control arms, I'll move on to the rear. I'm taking a trip over to Forte's Parts connection for the IRS center section and rear brakes tomorrow.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150284&d=1625317751
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150286&d=1625317767

sohcrates

07-03-2021, 09:07 AM

Made more progress yesterday. Got several hours in and made some major mental headway. I had gone over to Forte's parts connection a couple of days back to pick up my rear knuckles, brakes, and the IRS center section. As always, I had a nice chat with Mike and an updated tour of what he had going on. He's having supply trouble just like everyone else. Coyote computer chips as well as blocks from blueprint, dart, and ford. Current thinking is a Ford Boss 363 with AFR aluminum heads, Holley Sniper FI, and a TKX transmission. That could end up being a Boss 347 or even a 302 with a T5 if I can act like a reasonable adult. (not likely)

Yesterday, I finally had the gumption to take destructive power tools to my shiny new car parts. I spent a little time getting oriented and drawing lines on the rear spindles to cut off the ears. That worked out pretty well, so my confidence increased. I ended up using these 14/18 TPI metal blades.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150292&d=1625317780

I started the cut carefully with a hand hacksaw with a metal blade, and then I used the sawzall with these blades. Worked well. Ended up chewing up 2 blades per cut but I was happy with the results.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150288&d=1625317767

I then used a dremel to bevel the sharp edges and then an orbital palm sander with 220 grit paper to smooth out the edge. Much happier with the way that looks.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150290&d=1625317767

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150294&d=1625317780

sohcrates

07-03-2021, 10:02 AM

At that point, I realized I did not have the 5/8" drill bit I thought I did. Before heading out to the hardware store, I decided to start with the hubs, anticipating I might run into other problems requiring a trip to Ace hardware. Good call.

My son and I began knocking the mustang studs out of the hubs. That was pretty easy, if not a little scary taking a hammer to my shiny new hubs. Getting the FFR studs into the hubs was another matter completely. Having seen what some other folks have been through, I had anticipated this. I've been watching NYMike's build thread as we are pretty similar with the builds. That lucky guy seems to have very nice tool access.

We first tried the method in the build manual using a washer, a lugnut and a ratchet. Not happening. I was already uncomfortable with the hub squeezed in the vise as hard as it was, and putting a ratchet on the lugnut was yanking the hub out of the vise. Not good. So we tried the impact gun, but with only one washer, it was not aligning properly. We managed to ruin one of the lugnuts trying with one washer. Anyone know the best way to replace one of these?

I don't have access to a press, so we had to come up with a different way to get the studs in.

I found this thread, which was super helpful: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?20096-Ideas-for-seating-wheel-studs-in-hubs-for-2015-IRS&highlight=IRS+wheel+stud

We ended up getting a stack of washers and a 1/2-20 impact nut from the hardware store. We greased up the threads and the washers and used the air impact gun and went to town.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150299&d=1625317792

It took a while but my son got all of the studs installed. It beat up our sacrificial washers and impact nut pretty good, but that was the plan.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150298&d=1625317792

I am a little concerned with the lack of clearance between the stud heads and the bearing seal, but I guess that's how its supposed to be...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150301&d=1625323009

I guess it will have to wait until these are on the car before I can put enough torque on this to get the 100 ft-lb spec on it.

Once that was all done, I chased out the mounting holes with my new 5/8" drill bit. With a little WD40 that went reasonably well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150300&d=1625317792

After a long time looking for the bolts (they were under the bubble wrap:o), I bolted the hubs to the spindles, torqued them, and called it a day.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150302&d=1625324275

This morning I spent some time on the forums figuring out how to work with pictures better and learned quite a bit. Thank you to Dave Hodgkins and his excellent thread on this. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18962-How-to-use-the-Image-Gallery-to-embed-pictures-in-posts

I'm feeling like I actually accomplished something this week, and gained a lot of confidence. We even managed to avoid any blood! The weather here in MA sucks this weekend so my son's state baseball tournament got postponed, and I'm on call for work all week so stuck home away from the lake cottage for the 4th, so maybe I'll get some more done! Definitely the bright side peeking through there.

460.465USMC

07-04-2021, 03:42 PM

Sohcrates, I very clearly remember late last year when I was completing these steps, and I was also a bit hesitant to cut up new, shiny parts. Looks like everything turned out well. I ground a flat on the head of the new studs before installing them just to ensure no interference with the hub gasket/seal. Here are a couple comparison photos from my build thread:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36627-460-465USMC-s-MK4-Build-9890-Radiator-Installed-w-Breeze-Parts&p=432126&viewfull=1#post432126

Build on!

sohcrates

07-04-2021, 05:25 PM

Thanks Chris! I have been watching your build. I saw your fantastic pictures. I was having such a hard time even getting a stud started, I failed to take the time to file down any of them. Once we got started, we were like a whirlwind, and now they're all in and I don't want to take them back out! I think I'll probably just roll the dice, and assume its OK. Fingers crossed.

sohcrates

07-07-2021, 02:25 PM

Any of you guys with the IRS, what kind of gear oil did you use? Did you use the Ford stuff, or AMSoil, or maybe something from the auto parts store?

460.465USMC

07-07-2021, 03:02 PM

Hi Ethan, I will be using the F5 recommendation from the build manual. Here's the excerpt from p. 116 of the build manual (electronic version from Spring 2020). (I've read at least one builder reported receiving his already filled with fluid. I will be double checking mine before purhasing any fluids, as it had enough in it to leak out a small amount during shipment.)

Fluids
Name Specification
Motorcraft® Additive Friction Modifier (U.S.) XL-3 (U.S.) EST-M2C118-A
Motorcraft® SAE 75W-85 Synthetic Hypoid Gear Lubricant XY-75W85-QL WSS-M2C942-A

Fill the rear axle with fluids.
Capacities Fluid Amount
SAE 75W-85 Synthetic Hypoid Gear Lubricant 3.15-3.30 pt (1.49-1.56 L)
Friction Modifier 3.0-3.5 oz (0.089-0.104 L)

sohcrates

07-07-2021, 03:23 PM

Thanks for the reply, Chris. I did see that in the manual. Mine wasn't dry, but it certainly wasn't full either. I had seen somewhere that someone used AMSoil, and someone else who bought the rear end from Forte had been told to use heavier oil in it. They told me that they use spectro 85-140. There were enough other ideas, that I was confused. It did seem safest to go with F5's Ford spec, so I think unless someone can convince me otherwise very soon, that I will also be using the Ford spec. I think it'll be easier and less messy to drain and refill before I put it in the car.

sohcrates

08-03-2021, 04:28 PM

Phew,

Long layoff of work on the car. Busy summer at the lake, away from the garage...First world problems. So I finally got to the rear diff. I could tell there was fluid in there, but not how much, and obviously not what type. I picked up the Ford/FFR spec fluid. I emptied out the fluid from the diff, and refilled it with the specified type and amount. I can stick my pinky in the fill hole and can't reach the level of the fluid. Am I better off leaving it with the specified amount from the manual (about 1.5 L plus the friction modifier), or filling it up to the fill hole? Any opinions?

Railroad

08-03-2021, 07:03 PM

Be sure you are using the right fill plug. There are two. The one you need to use is about the level of the bottom of the axle bore of the housing.
I think recommended level is 5 mm below the plug hole. You might need to verify that. Anyway about 1/4" below the hole, which you should be able to touch.
Hope that clears things up.

sohcrates

08-04-2021, 04:28 PM

Now I'm more confused... The pic shows where I drained and filled. After filling from the top hole, as I said, I can't touch the fluid with my pinky. If I loosen the lower plug, it is over the top of that one and wants to come out everywhere. I drained thoroughly and used exactly the specified amount.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151658&d=1628110817

Railroad

08-05-2021, 07:35 AM

You got it right. If that is your rear in the pic, the housing needs to be sitting as it would be when mounted in the frame.
Small angles make big diff in levels of liquids.
If you have everything mounted up and axles in, fill the housing to the bottom on the upper hole.

Sorry about the confusing comment on the second hole. I have seen covers with a hole high on the cover. Others have used it for their fill level and created a mess.

sohcrates

08-09-2021, 03:56 PM

Got it now. Thanks so much. It only took a little bit more and levelling the diff and it was just below the fill.

John Ibele

08-10-2021, 09:13 PM

Hey Ethan, I hadn't checked in on your build thread yet and just read through it. Welcome to the fun, and I can tell you about long build experiences :) You're right, it doesn't matter how long it takes. And I get the summer experience, I slow down on the build in the middle of every short Minnesota summer. You're coming along well despite the interruptions, good to see the progress. Cheers, John

sohcrates

09-08-2021, 10:39 AM

Thanks for the words of encouagement John!

It seems like there are constant and continuous projects that get slotted in ahead of cobra build time, but I guess that is life. Another very slow month on the build, but things are actually happening.

After spending a great deal of time agonizing internally about it, I decided to get over my fears of permanently modifying perfectly good parts with saws. Since I am doing power steering, I took the advice of many forum members, and shortened the rear adjusters on the front upper control arms. The collective knowledge says that it is sometimes difficult to get enough adjustment out of these to get to the desired caster numbers when doing alignment. I studied the following posts, along with many others, over and over to make sure I was doing the right thing. Many thanks to all of these guys, and the forums in general, for sharing your experiences. I hope my experience serves others in the future.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27330-Unable-to-get-enough-Caster-amp-Camber

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?29094-CV2065-MKIV-Build-Thread-Go-Karting-and-More&p=369591&viewfull=1#post369591

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?38842-Carl-s-and-Phil-s-Mk4-Roadster-Build-Thread&p=449764&highlight=upper+control+arm#post449764

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?39009-NYMike-s-MKIV-Build-First-Start!!!-ITS-ALIVE!&p=458419&highlight=caster#post458419

Like these guys, I also took about .25" off of both ends of the adjusters and also off of the threaded rods.

Before cutting anything!, here we go!:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153163&d=1631103793

after cutting:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153164&d=1631103793

cutting the rod:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153165&d=1631103819

after everything is cut:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153168&d=1631103819

left side after reassembly:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153166&d=1631103819

It all went smoother than I worried it might. I started all of the cuts with a hacksaw, and then finished with a sawzall using a metal blade. These eight cuts went through 2 brand new metal blades. The adjustment tubes went pretty quick, and the hollow rods weren't bad, but the solid rod was much tougher. I used a dremel with sanding attachments to smooth out the rough edges. They didn't all thread quite as nicely as when new, but they all went in OK, and once started were fine. As you can see, I also ended up with a couple of scratches on the adjusters.

sohcrates

09-08-2021, 10:41 AM

After tackling all of that, I happened to have a friend over, and he helped me get the differential in. We used a floor jack and it took some wrestling, but it wasn't too bad. It was a little hard to get wrenches on both sides of the front bolts, but we managed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153171&d=1631103841

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153170&d=1631103841

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153169&d=1631103841

On another positive note, Factory five has also been chipping away at my POL. The long awaited front spindles and lower control arms both came in, along with other fun things like seats and the steering wheel. So now I am out of excuses on getting the suspension done. I've just got to keep my wife from inserting too many more projects in ahead of the car!

nucjd19

09-08-2021, 09:05 PM

sohcrates

09-09-2021, 06:14 AM

That makes me feel even better about doing it! Glad I did it beforehand so I don't have to take that particular area apart to change something down the road. I'm sure there will be plenty of things I end up taking apart to do over!

460.465USMC

09-29-2021, 03:34 PM

After tackling all of that, I happened to have a friend over, and he helped me get the differential in. We used a floor jack and it took some wrestling, but it wasn't too bad. It was a little hard to get wrenches on both sides of the front bolts, but we managed.

Congrats on getting the IRS diff. installed, Ethan! It was a real challenge for me, though I'm a noobie and installed it mostly solo. Easily one of top three accomplishments on my build so far. Great to read about the arrival of your awaited suspension items! Keep up the good work.

sohcrates

10-07-2021, 11:24 AM

Thanks Chris!! The encouragement here is unbelieveable. The cliff we have all jumped off of to do this is really daunting and to know other people have had the same experiences and pushed through to triumph really keeps you motivated.

I am sensing that everyone's experiences with fit and finish on some of the parts, like the frame in particular, is not lexus quality. Each one is a little different, and little differences matter. Partially because I had an able helper, partially because I had looked at other people's experiences here, but mostly because my diff and my frame lined up OK, I didn't have a very hard time getting the diff installed. Things lined up OK and the bolts went in fine.

The front lower control arms that I just tackled, however, were a very different story. It seems that some other people had trouble with this, but others very little. The manual says that the spacers are for the rear mount of the LCAs, but I used them in both rears and one front as well. On both sides, I had to do quite a bit of hammering with the dead blow mallet, first to open up the ears on the frame to let the LCA fit, and then to get the bolts in through the arms. Nothing was lining up great, so I was having to bend and pry to get the second bolt in on both sides. Definitely would have been easier with a helper. Didn't have one this time. There was a lot of banging, prying, grunting, and swearing going on. I eventually got it all together, using one spacer on both rear mounts, and one on the front passenger side. This felt like a major accomplishement for me, like your diff did for you, Chris.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154185&d=1633621755

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154186&d=1633621755

While I had a couple of hours on the car, I also worked on a couple of other things. Intending to power through and finish the front suspension, I also took apart the upper control arms, having read that alignment with the car's weight on the suspension is much easier with the adjustment tubes greased. So I greased up the passenger side with white lithium grease that I had lying around (is this appropriate?) and put it back together. I started doing a rough alignment as instructed in the manual, but then I realized I had never tightened the locknuts on the ends of the pivot shaft, so there is too much movement, and the alignment is meaningless. The manual says to tighten those so there is minimal endplay but still allow the pivots to rotate easily. Is there any way to quantify this with a torque number? Or am I overanalyzing it? Just tighten it up, I guess, and then do the rough alignment.

As usual, as I was agonyzing, I ran out of time for the day. I'll have to come back to this on my next session. I certainly hope that as the winter sets in, and I run out of yard work to do, that I will have more time with the car.

Before I started wrestling with the LCAs, I did manage to torque up the bolts for the differential and add the breather tube.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154184&d=1633621755

Little by little, progress is made. I figure I should be able to finish up the front suspension next time, and then start with the brakes now that I have spindles. Then I can move on to the rear suspension.

sohcrates

11-12-2021, 09:14 PM

Another very long haul betweeen days working on the car. I can see this is going to be a long road. I'm hoping that I will build momentum at some point and the rest of life can sometimes give way. I got a few solid hours in today, and even had help. Might even get some more time in a couple days down the road. We managed to finish up the front suspension today, which definitely felt like an accomplishment. We started by tightening down the upper control arm pivot bolts, then did the rough alignment on both sides before tightening up the locknuts. As others have recommended, we greased up the threaded shafts so that they might be adjusted more easily when the suspension has weight on it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156265&d=1636767393

We then installed the spindles. The bottom mounts went OK, but the tops were more difficult. The only thing that came up with the bottoms is that the provided spacers are different top and bottom. One side is flat and the other had some taper.
I just sort of guessed and had the flat side against the castle nuts. Anyone know which way these are supposed to go?

Others had recommended energy suspension ball joint dust boots, which I got, but they were just too small to stay on the ball joints when everything went back together, so we just stuck with the provided dust boots. They sure get smooshed up without any weight on the suspension. The next issue we faced was that the castle nuts on the top ball joints don't reach the holes for the cotter pin, so the pin doesn't stop the nut from rotating. We solved this with some automotive grade washers acting as spacers, as were provided for the bottom ball joints. That pushed the castle nuts down enough so the cotter pins could go in the grooves on the castle nuts.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156273&d=1636768333

We tried to torque all of the bolts, but had to kind of guess on the upper spindle ball joint castle nuts. Anyone got any tricks for getting a torque wrench on that one? I just did it by feel, which is very scientific. After that, we moved on to the brakes. The biggest issue here is that I still don't have brake pads for these... I'm quite sure I could head down to autozone and grab some, but I won't need them for a while, and I already paid for one set, so why pay for another? Besides, these brakes are looking absolutely puny. I have the 13" brakes for the rear, and those look normal size. I have a feeling I'll be upgrading to the mustang cobra front brakes, or even willwoods at some point...

The other surprise here was how tight it is to get at the top caliper bracket mounting bolt. Those were hard to get at with most of the car not built, and no steering rack installed, so you could turn the hub all the way around to get at them. Those are going to be fun once everything is all put together.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156268&d=1636767393

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156269&d=1636767407

It was great to be working on the car, and to be making some progress, especially having company. Hoping for more time in a couple of days to work on the rear suspension.

460.465USMC

11-13-2021, 09:37 PM

The next issue we faced was that the castle nuts on the top ball joints don't reach the holes for the cotter pin, so the pin doesn't stop the nut from rotating. We solved this with some automotive grade washers acting as spacers, as were provided for the bottom ball joints. That pushed the castle nuts down enough so the cotter pins could go in the grooves on the castle nuts.

Nice progress, Ethan!

I also had to add spacer washers to resolve my concern about cotter pin engagement in the castle nut. At the time I emailed F5, and they said it was okay as is. Right or wrong that response didn't give me warm fuzzies, so I used the extra spacer washers on-hand from my Wilwood brake kit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138516&d=1606616124

sohcrates

11-14-2021, 01:28 PM

Thanks for that Chris!! I'm glad I'm not the only one...

If I wasn't having brake inadequacy before, I sure am now. Those things look badass!! I also see you got the energy suspension ball joint dust boots on there. Did yo uhave any trouble getting those on? I couldn't get them to stay on at all, so I gave up. Also were you able to torque those top castle nuts? I couldn't fit my torque wrench in there...

egchewy79

11-14-2021, 03:14 PM

John Ibele

11-15-2021, 02:16 PM

I was able to use the energy suspension boots as well. just adjust them once you start to tighten down the castle nuts and they'll hold in place. I think I needed to use a flathead screwdriver to make sure the lip of the boot wasn't folded over on itself.
I also had trouble torquing the castle nuts as my wrench/socket wouldn't fit. look into crow foot wrenches that will allow you to get in there, but I'm not sure if it renders your torque wrench inaccurate.

I also had this problem and got a cheapie set of crow foot wrenches. Good for this application but I haven't found much of a need for them on a regular basis. If you position them at a 90* angle to the torque wrench you should not have to make adjustments to the torque setting. If you can't do 90*, you should at least check to see if you need to adjust the setting to account for the additional lever arm represented by the crow foot - it may be a negligible difference.

sohcrates

11-15-2021, 08:42 PM

Thanks guys. I knew there was something like that out there.

sohcrates

11-22-2021, 02:09 PM

Snuck in another half day this week. Actually felt like I was getting somewhere. It feels good to be emptying boxes, getting rid of them, and making more space in the garage for my wife to fill with junk!

I spent about an hour getting all of the parts out to work on the IRS, making parts piles for the control arms, shocks, and toe arms. I ended up with a couple of extra nuts that were with the parts for the toe arms. Not sure where those end up. I assembled the toe arms and control arms, adjusting them for rough alignment while I was at it.

I then bolted on the toe arms. No sweat there.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156736&d=1637604567

Then it came to the lower control arms, and I got to revisit my frustration with the pick up points on the frame. It seems like every bushing I have is about 1/16" too long, and won't go in to the pickup points on the frame. Since the toe arms used spacers instead of bushings, it wasn't an issue there, but everywhere there was a bushing was a problem. All three attachment points for both lower control arms, both points for both upper control arms, the pickups for the spindles on the toe arms, all had to be reworked to allow the bushings in. I started trying to bend the ears out with a prybar, which sometimes worked for some of the pickups. I tried banging on the ears with a dead blow mallet, which was a disaster. Not only did it not move the ears enough to fit the bushings, but was taking significant amounts of powdercoat off the frame. I saw that NYMike had this issue at this point as well. Like him, I hit those spots with some black spraypaint, but I'm not happy with that solution. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

What ended up working best for me was grinding down the metal bushings a tidbit until they fit. This was the ticket for the control arms. The spindle pickups on the tie arms and LCAs were more easily bendable. Hopefully I haven't created a new problem by ginding those down. I smoothed the edges off so they weren't too sharp, but my hand grinding wasn't particularly even. Once everything actually fit together, things went pretty smooth. I meant to take some pictures of the damaged frame before I painted it and put everything together, but I was in a frenzy and forgot.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156737&d=1637604567

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156739&d=1637604567

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156742&d=1637604586

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156740&d=1637604567

sohcrates

11-22-2021, 02:10 PM

After all of that, I got the driveshafts it. Took more muscle than I anticipated from reading other's experiences, and both had to be banged in with the dead blow mallet.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156747&d=1637604604

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156746&d=1637604604

Even after the banging, when they seemed to bottom out, I ended up with a little more clearance than anticipated between the axles and the pumpkin. Does this look right?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156745&d=1637604586

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156744&d=1637604586

Aside from the aforementioned bending of the attachment ears on the suspension arms, the spindles went in OK. Looks nice all put together. I didn't see any pics in the manual of the bolts from the tie arms to the spindles. Does anyone think it matters whether the bolts are to the front or the nuts are to the front?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156752&d=1637604615

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156749&d=1637604604

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156751&d=1637604615

I was going to tackle the shocks, but was out of steam for the day, so next time it'll be shocks and brakes, although I'm deciding whether to paint the calipers before installing them. I think I like the look of black calipers for this car, but the mustang cobra front brakes I intend to use in front come unpainted or powdercoated red, so it might make sense to paint the rears red too instead of painting all of them black. Anyone have good experience with particular brands of caliper paint? I see POR15 makes some.

egchewy79

11-22-2021, 04:00 PM

I've used VHT caliper paint that seems to work pretty well after 500mi of driving so far. I did have a caliper that needed to be replaced b/c the piston seal was leaking fluid and it did eat the paint away. I think anything short of powdercoating will erode away with any amount of brake fluid leaking.

regarding the mounting tabs/ears that you needed to pound, I too found some of my some of my spacers/bushings too tight between the ears. Instead of hitting it with a hammer, get yourself a length of threaded rod and some nuts/hardened washers. Get the nuts/washers on the inside of the ears and start expanding the distance between the nuts using an open-ended wrench. As the washers push against the ears, it'll expand your mounting tabs a bit.

sohcrates

11-22-2021, 05:42 PM

Thanks for all of that. I had seen other people using that method, which does make sense. Of course, we determined people often struggle through with the tools at hand instead of saving the time and frustration of the struggle by heading down to the hardware store!!!

460.465USMC

11-24-2021, 11:07 PM

Hi Ethan. As a point of reference here's the 1/8" gap on my CV axles:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137032&d=1604262724

FWIW: I also inserted the bolts from the front:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137034&d=1604262842

Looking at the build manual (p. 105, Rev. 4Z) I see I followed their instructions. Looks same as yours. Nice work!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=157637&d=1637813088

P.S. I tried the threaded rod method on several of the tabs on my IRS assembly, but didn't find it worked any better than a large adjustable wrench. I used a rag between the jaws of the adjustable wrench to ensure no powder coat was removed or unwanted scratches. I found this method much faster--and cheaper unless you already have the hardened bolts/nuts/washers--and just as effective.

edwardb

11-25-2021, 12:05 AM

For you guys doing IRS builds, strongly suggest you center the mounting parts centered as shown in these pictures. Equal number of threads on each side. If you don't, you could run out for threads when adjusting. Not explained in the manual that I've noticed. Note this is from a very early IRS build (20th Anniversary Roadster) before the tech upgrade adding the large washer to the bolt on the control arm. Was added later.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension/.highres/IMG_0153_zpsshxrqbwz.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/a/0c2eb5e2-d9c0-4c2b-821b-3bea4a3e7934/p/b3181f82-dbd8-49eb-9ff9-ebc63c4e3441)

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension/.highres/IMG_0152_zpsixzfry84.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/a/0c2eb5e2-d9c0-4c2b-821b-3bea4a3e7934/p/14191e77-3c78-46cf-9b20-80216a2f3fea)

Railroad

11-25-2021, 09:51 AM

sohcrates

11-29-2021, 02:33 PM

Thanks Guys!! Chris, I have referred to your excellent build thread many times, and have it bookmarked. I have also seen edwardb's name everywhere on here as an essential reference. I will go take a look at my tie arms to make sure they are set up as you recommended. I tried to bottom both adjusters out when I put the arms together, so that it would thread evenly on both ends, but I'll make sure I'm set up right. I haven't torqued all of this yet. And by all means Railroad, I am happy to have my thread hijacked with essential information like that. The more places that info is placed, the easier it is for everyone to find.

sohcrates

12-01-2021, 06:33 PM

More progress. My best friend Jimmy came up with the idea of weekly time set aside on a specific night for build time, and it is more acceptable to the family when he comes up with it! So Jimmy and I got to work last night finishing the rear suspension and brakes. Got the shocks put together and installed with minimal difficulty. There are a couple of pages missing from the manual about shock assembly. Those pages were present in the front shock section, so we referred to that. The biggest question was whether to mount the shocks body up or down. It seemed like the manual was implying that the stock red shocks should go in body down, even though the fronts are body up. I see pictures from people's builds with the rear shocks both up and down. Maybe it doesn't matter?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158127&d=1638400156

We then torqued all of the IRS bolts we hadn't gotten to yet. From the back of the manual, if I got it right, the spindle to LCA bolts and the spindle to toe links are 120 ft lb and the spindle to UCA are 100 ft lb. We also got the shock mounts at 40 ft lb.

We then tackled the rear brakes. I got the M-2300-MR 13" mustang rear brakes from Mike Forte. FFR sells these, but Mike has them cheaper and I was getting the pumpkin from him anyway. I didn't find much documentation on these. The included instruction sheet has limited info, and the FFR stuff applies to different brakes. The included instructions did indicate which pad retaining clips went where, and where the wear indicators go. They also said that the lock pins go on the bottom of the calipers. I'm pretty sure these are the blue ones, with the rubber grommet on them. So that's the way we put them on.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158143&d=1638400213

We also used the black grease for the caliper pins and pad ears, and the orange grease on the back of the pads as an anti-squeal. I hope we got that right. Anyone know about any of that?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158130&d=1638400156

Is anyone else using these dust shields?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158133&d=1638400184

That was about all the time we had.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158141&d=1638400201

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158138&d=1638400201

I guess maybe next time we will break into either the parking brake and brake lines or maybe the pedal box. I plan on doing a hydraulic clutch. Is there anything on the pedal box side of things that differs from the manual?

sohcrates

12-17-2021, 06:29 PM

I have spent the last week or so agonizing about brake decisions. I have the 13" 2015 Mustang rear brakes and the small SN95 11" Mustang front brakes. I sort of backed into this situation. I didn't want to spring for the $3400 Wilwoods off the bat, knowing I wouldn't be tracking the car. I figured the stock brakes would be fine for such a light car, not thinking about power assist, or the fact that the default IRS rear brakes would be bigger than the fronts. As I started to put things together, I became unhappy with the small front brakes, so I plan to go with some 13" Mustang Cobra front brakes. Reading the forums also led me to believe that I would be unhappy with unassisted brakes unless I went with the expensive wilwoods. It seems much easier to switch to the wilwoods later if I want to track the car than it would be to add power assist later. So I considered the whitby setup, but wasn't nuts about cutting the frame, and have no idea if I'll have sufficient vacuum with the 363 SBF from Forte, so I think I'll go with Forte's hydroboost setup since I'm doing power steering anyway. It's a little spendy, especially with his wilwood dual master cylinder with built in proportioning valve. So then I wondered if I should just bite the bullet and get the wilwood fronts, stick with the 13" rears I have already paid for and installed, and go with manual brakes. Not much more expensive and certainly simpler. They look really cool too. Again, I'm stuck on it being a bear to add power brakes later, so I think I'll stay with my plan of 13" Cobra front brakes and the Forte hydroboost. I certainly welcome any opinions. I know edwardb has tried both options. This all assumes, of course, that I can get the flange spacer for the hydroboost that Forte currently can't get. I have a request in to FFR and we'll see how that goes. If I can't get it, I guess the issue will be decided.

So this conundrum has me all tied up. I can't do the pedal box until I have all of this decided, and routing the brake lines can't be completed until the hyrdoboost is in. I also need to get the in tank fuel pump for the EFI, so I can't finish that until I do, so I haven't started the fuel lines yet. Don't really want to do a lot of aluminum panels until all of that is sorted out. Analysis paralysis.

In the meantime, I did do the soft brake lines at all four corners, using the bent bracket method in the back recommended by FFR in the manual. I had no problem getting the T-fitting on that way. As nice as some people's hard brake lines look (I'm thinking of you edwardb), I think I'll just use the ones supplied in the kit, along with the insulated clips to rivet to the frame. I have enough extra stuff from breeze, gasn, and russ thompson that I have to get. Merry XMAS to me...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158771&d=1639779892

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158767&d=1639779892

I then moved on to the power steering rack. I definitely caused myself some headache here. The spacers that go in the bushings that mount the rack to the car were in my POL. They came months ago, but were in a separate box, so my steering hardware bag didn't have them. The rack also had bushings pre installed, and the manual was pretty slim in this area, as were the power steering rack supplemental instructions. Nothing said anything about removing existing bushings.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158774&d=1639779913

So I was trying to get the rack in with the preinstalled bushings, and needless to say, it didn't work. I banged up my frame pretty good trying to wrestle it in. Now I have nice blue painters tape in that area like I should have before. After a beer break, I went back to the forums and didn't see anyone having any trouble with this, so I tried, and succeeded, to get the preinstalled bushings out, and then located my wayward spacers. They took extensive banging with the dead blow to get in, but once they were in the rack slipped right into the frame.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158777&d=1639779923

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158775&d=1639779913

As has happened every time I have had to attach something to the frame, there has been a lot of misalignment. There was a great deal of hammering to get the mounting bolts through the frame mounts and the rack. The holes just didn't quite line up. It seems to have worked out though and the rack is in. My friend is coming over tonight, so maybe some more work on the steering. I still have to get the tie rod ends on and install the shaft and bearings. I ordered the Moog ES2150RL recommended by edwardb, and they are definitely nicer than the stock items. I guess after that, we'll start working on some of the hard brake lines, at least the ones that don't attach to the master cylinder, and maybe drill and cleco the passenger side footwell.

JeffP

12-18-2021, 09:23 AM

Check with Mike, i got my front wilwood's from him for about $1400 as I recall, he had the best price i could find on them.

sohcrates

12-18-2021, 10:30 AM

Yes, that's what I saw too. His prices are usually the best, though even he has experienced some covid cost creep. The front wilwoods will be about the same money as the 13" mustang cobra fronts plus the hydroboost.

sohcrates

12-19-2021, 09:31 AM

So I managed to get a little more time in the other night. We put the steering shaft together, preparing the shaft as instructed in the manual. I didn't intend to snug everything up because the pedalbox is still up in the air and I haven't put the aluminum panel on the front of the footbox yet. Everything went pretty smooth.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158848&d=1639920916

The recess we drilled in the upper shaft for the set screw might have ended up a little deep, but we were still able to get the jam nut on, so it might be OK. I might turn the shaft over and drill a shallower hole in the other side of the shaft.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158849&d=1639920916

The bearings both went in with no issues. No washers were needed on the pillow block. We had plenty of clearance between the shaft and the frame.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158852&d=1639920935

We got the steering rack u joint installed as directed, with the set screw between the two rows of splines on the shaft.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158847&d=1639920916

When we put the lower shaft in the steering rack u-joint, things weren't quite lining up right. The lower steering shaft seems about 1/2" too long. When it is inserted flush in the upper u joint, and the upper ujoint is pressed all the way up into the flange bearing, the shaft protrudes into the lower steering rack ujoint by about 1/2", which seems to interfere with the ujoint's operation. Moving the shaft about 1/4" back up into the upper ujoint makes it so the shaft doesn't interfere with either ujoint, but it certainly isn't flush as directed in the manual.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158850&d=1639920916

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158851&d=1639920916

Not sure if this is OK, has anyone else run into this? Like I said, the upper ujoint is all the way up into the flange bearing with no clearance, and the lower ujoint is installed properly on the steering rack shaft, with the set screw positioned as directed on the smooth part of the shaft between the two rows of splines. There's no other place to take up any slack, so what gives?

We also managed to mock up the passenger footwell and stick some clecos in. We were getting tired, so I didn't want to start drilling holes.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158853&d=1639920935

sohcrates

02-09-2022, 09:58 AM

Another agonizingly long layoff the build. As usual, its always something. It started with two weeks of agonizing over how to proceed with the brakes. I finally decided to skip power brakes and upgrade to the Wilwood fronts. I then had to aquire those, and while I was at it, I started to plan for pending steps by ordering a bunch of parts from breeze automotive. I got the battery tray, an in tank fuel pump and fuel vent, as well as the storage cubby. All of this agonizing and purchasing was taking up my cobra time, and then Christmas came, and then everyone got Covid, and then we went on vacation, and here we are, weeks since any building.

Further slowing me up was that I unboxed the Wilwood brakes and found this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162101&d=1644417782

I bought the brakes from Mike Forte, and so I asked him about it. He thought they would be fine, as all of that coating comes off the first time you apply the brakes. He consulted with Wilwood anyway, and they agreed, so I decided to press on rather than wait for new parts.

After that delay, I got back at it last night and worked on the brakes. First step was to teach myself how to safety wire. After lots of youtube videos, I got to it, and the first one only took about 5 tries.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162099&d=1644417782

After that I got on a roll and things started to go much quicker. Only cut myself once.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162100&d=1644417782

I was pretty pleased with myself, and finally feeling like something had been accomplished. Then I turned my expensive brake rotor over and discovered this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162102&d=1644417782

I guess all of the wrestling with the rotor as I fought with the safety wire did a number on that rather fragile finish on the hat. Bummer. It won't be visible with the wheel on the car, but that's still ugly. I'm afraid to try to polish it in any way. I assume its the same coating as is on the rotor itself, so its bound to come off altogether.

I'll try to be more careful with the other one and put something softer on top of my workbench. I should have some time later to keep working on these brakes.

460.465USMC

02-09-2022, 10:26 PM

Hi Ethan. Glad your family came out of the crud okay, and able to take vacation. I hope it was a good break for you all. My family went through Round 2 of the 'Rona recently. Not nearly as bad for us the second time around.

Good to see you're back at it. Congrats on the rotors and safety wiring. I thought safety wiring was interesting, and kind of fun. Got a bit tedious though by the fourth wheel. I had to use a magnifying glass to thread the wire through the holes.

I was a little surprised to see how much scuff the hat went through on your work surface. That material on your workbench must be a little abrasive. A friendly tip FWIW: if you haven't considered a moving blanket to cover your work surface for tasks like this, I recommend it for your consideration. It not only protects from scratches/scuffs, but bits and pieces like nuts, washers, screws, electrical connectors, etc. tend to stay put. It's not great for every workbench task, but useful for many. I picked up a few from Harbor Freight--about $9 each for the 6' x 6.5'.

sohcrates

02-10-2022, 01:58 PM

The next one only took an hour start to finish, including torquing all of the bolts. The rag on the workbench did the trick. This one is still nice and pretty. Looks like its time for a deep clean for the workbench...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162194&d=1644519335

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162195&d=1644519335

sohcrates

02-11-2022, 09:32 AM

Putting the calipers and rotors on the spindles went pretty smoothly. The only hitch I ran into was the big bracket bolts that come with the Wilwood kit. They are so much bigger than the mustang bolts, that there isn't room to get a socket on them, and you can't even get an open ended wrench all the way on. I beat this one up pretty good by having the open ended wrench only part way on. Loosening it was very difficult when I went to take them off.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162257&d=1644588995

The mustang bolts didn't use washers, where the Wilwood ones do. So I compromised and kept the washers but used the mustang bolts, which have a head small enough to get a socket on comfortably. The mustang bolts still go all the way through the Wilwood caliper bracket, so that seemed fine to me. Anyone think otherwise?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162258&d=1644588995

Never having dealt with brand new rotors and brand new hubs, I didn't know what to do with myself. The light use and limited rain this car will see made me wonder if I really need any anti-seize on the hubs, but I couldn't help myself, and just put a very light coating on the hubs.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162256&d=1644588995

My old measuring calipers that I've been meaning to replace finally gave up the ghost while measuring the spacing for the rotors in the calipers. So I'm not done shimming the calipers yet. My new measuring calipers arrive tomorrow, so I'll wrap up the front brakes then.

I paid a visit to Mark Reynolds at Breeze automotive this week to pick up some items, and he showed me his car. He pointed out that he had changed the orientation of his flex line brackets from vertical to horizontal to make a more natural path of movement for the flex lines. This was interesting to me. I'll have to decide whether to drill out the rivets and move those brackets to horizontal. Anyone run into any issues with the flex lines rubbing on anything with the stock vertical orientation?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162259&d=1644588995

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162260&d=1644588995

sohcrates

03-04-2022, 09:13 AM

Another long layoff with school vacation and some gruelling work weeks thrown in for good measure. I did get an hour in to shim the front brake calipers and install the flex lines. I ended up using every shim in the package to get the rotors centered, but I got there.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163369&d=1646396544

I screwed the hose fittings into the calipers, and sort of guessed how tight they should be, choosing this angle:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163371&d=1646396544

That seemed to set the hose up in a good way to avoid binding or catching on anything. Anyone see any issues with this?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163368&d=1646396544

After cleanup, I had a few more minutes, so I started looking at the parking brake cable situation. I had not ordered rear brakes from FFR, and instead got the 2015 Mustang GT 13" Rear brakes from Mike Forte with my rear center section (M2300MR, FFR also sells these). I spent a couple of hours looking for my parking brake cables, and couldn't find them anywhere, and couldn't find them in my manifest either. So I emailed FFR and they told me that they only send them if you order rear brakes. That explained why I couldn't find them, so I then ordered some. I confirmed that the ends on the cables they sent would work with the brakes I have, and FFR told me that they would. They sent me the cables and this bracket. I can't figure out what its for at this point.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163376&d=1646402529

Furthermore, I can't see how the cylindrical ends of the cable they sent will work with my brake calipers. Anyone have any revelation here on how this works?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163378&d=1646402529

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158139&d=1638400201

egchewy79

03-04-2022, 10:34 AM

before finalizing your lines, get the wheels on and turn the car lock to lock to make sure the lines don't rub on the wheels/tires.

sohcrates

03-04-2022, 10:38 AM

Good tip! Thank you. I don't have tires yet, but I can put the wheels on. Was going to wait as long as possible on the tires since they have a limited shelf life that will probably expire before they will wear out.

460.465USMC

03-04-2022, 11:56 AM

Hi Ethan. Glad you had a chance to get some garage time. It can be a challenge at times unless you're one of those cool retired types....can't wait to get there myself someday.

So, my front brake caliper fitting and flexline is installed just like yours. I have wheels and tires mounted (fronts are wide at 275/40/R17) , and there is no interference at full lock. I don't have the motor in yet, but from what I can see I don't think clearance will be an issue even with the additional IFS squat from the engine weight.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138514&d=1606616094

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138516&d=1606616124

FWIW: I put some thread sealant on my angled fittings that thread into the Wilwood caliper, though I can't say whether that is required. I thought I asked the forum at the time, but don't recall for sure.

sohcrates

03-04-2022, 12:24 PM

Thanks Chris! Yes, I look forward to retirement too, when I have more time to play. Only 17.5 years left! I thought of thread sealant too, but don't ever remember doing it for any other brake line fittings, so I didn't here. That's super helpful about the wheel clearance. I'm also going with 17"s. I see you did not modify the rear adjustment tubes on your upper control arms, and that you have power steering. I assume you haven't gotten to alignment yet?

460.465USMC

03-04-2022, 12:52 PM

For alignment so far, I centered the steering rack and the steering wheel. Then I played around a bit with alignment. Just enough to get the PS front wheel pointing forward.

You're right in I haven't cut the rear adjustment sleeves. I do trust the wisdom of the forum, however, I don't have a good way to make clean cuts. Not really the kind of cuts I want to make with my trusty hacksaw. Plus, some forum members say they don't have to. Ultimately, I will make the final decision closer to go-kart time.

sohcrates

03-04-2022, 01:25 PM

I used a sawzall and got a bunch of new blades then smoothed it out with a dremel. Worked pretty good. I didn't want to get to alignment and then have to take that all apart...

You can see the detail in post #24 of my build.

It seemed like the people that got it to work without cutting were just barely getting enough caster with the adjustment maxed out, so I figured more room for adjustment was a good thing even if it would work out ok without the mod. I was terrified to do it but I think it worked out.

sohcrates

03-05-2022, 11:20 AM

Got a little more work in yesterday. Didn't have much time, but played with the parking brake cables a little more, and dug out the parts for the pedal box that I'll tackle next. I also installed the FFMetals forward firewall. I'ts clecoed in, as you can see. Can anyone think of any reason not to rivet this in now?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163414&d=1646497002

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163415&d=1646497002

edwardb

03-05-2022, 11:53 AM

FWIW: I put some thread sealant on my angled fittings that thread into the Wilwood caliper, though I can't say whether that is required. I thought I asked the forum at the time, but don't recall for sure.

I thought of thread sealant too, but don't ever remember doing it for any other brake line fittings, so I didn't here.

Those inlet fittings on the Wilwood calipers are 1/8-27 NPT. As I recall, have paper stickers over the openings describing the threads. NPT threads always require sealant. Your local parts store will have products that are acceptable. Like from Loctite or Permatex. They are the one kind of fitting we use in our builds where sealant is necessary because they seal on the threads vs. other types that have taper seals in the seats. Like the usual brake line double flared fittings. No sealant there.

sohcrates

03-05-2022, 12:06 PM

Thanks edwardb!! That would have sucked to track down that leak later... what do you like to use for sealant? There seems to be quite a debate about tape vs liquid...

Am I correct that the flared fittings on the cable ends should not get sealant?

460.465USMC

03-05-2022, 01:50 PM

Ethan, when I was asking questions about sealant v. no sealant, Edwardb helped me understand the tape sealant we use for household plumbing repairs is not best for our builds. Not sure if you're referring to that kind? So, I picked up this high temp. Permatex thread sealant from my local Napa.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163427&d=1646505793

P.S. Disregard "11/20" date code I put on the packaging. I tend to test the age limits of chemicals, leaving them in my garage cabinet for far too long. :p This should help me dispose when age appropriate.

sohcrates

03-05-2022, 01:59 PM

Thanks Chris!! Glad I asked.

Mike.Bray

03-05-2022, 09:14 PM

So, my front brake caliper fitting and flexline is installed just like yours. I have wheels and tires mounted (fronts are wide at 275/40/R17) , and there is no interference at full lock. I don't have the motor in yet, but from what I can see I don't think clearance will be an issue even with the additional IFS squat from the engine weight.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138514&d=1606616094

Do you know how long those brake lines are? thanks

sohcrates

03-07-2022, 06:06 AM

Looks like about 17 inches as I measure them. It was a little difficult but I didn't want to take them off yet. When I take them off to seal the threads on the NPT fittings I'll take a better measurement.

JeffP

03-07-2022, 07:06 AM

Do you know how long those brake lines are? thanks

The inventory states them as 14945 20" Stainless Braided 35* Banjo Brake Line (assuming he used the kit ones!)

sohcrates

03-07-2022, 08:55 AM

I did use the kit ones. They may be 20" with the ends included. I'll measure them when I take them off to seal up the threads.

460.465USMC

03-07-2022, 03:23 PM

The inventory states them as 14945 20" Stainless Braided 35* Banjo Brake Line (assuming he used the kit ones!)

Hi Jeff. The braided flex lines in my picture are not the banjo lines that come with the kit. I installed the Wilwood brake kit, which includes the ones shown in the picture. My banjo lines are in my what do I do with these extra parts pile?

sohcrates

03-08-2022, 10:49 AM

Sorry Jeff, I wasn't clear. My situation is just as Chris'. My FFR stainless brake lines, along with the 11" SN95 mustang GT front brakes are in the "what do I do with this perfectly good but nearly useless stuff bin". The lines shown in my photos are the ones that came with the wilwood front brake kit. As I said, I will soon get an actual measurement for you.

JeffP

03-08-2022, 02:24 PM

sohcrates

03-10-2022, 06:28 PM

OK big week for getting some time in.

First I sealed the front brake flex line fittings. I confirmed that the wilwood stainless lines are 18", as Jeff said.

Next, I tackled the parking brake line situation. I had agonized over how to solve this problem on another thread, and got some great advice there. I ended up keeping the FFR brake lines and fabricating some brackets to attach the cables to the hooked brake caliper brackets.

I started with some angle brackets:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163735&d=1646952104

I used the existing holes in the brackets and enlarged them for the caliper hooks, then drilled holes to get the cable ends through and slots for the cable. I smoothed everything out as best as I could to avoid chafing the cable jacket. Not the prettiest, but definitely happy with how they turned out functionally.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163736&d=1646952104

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163737&d=1646952104

Having this all put together, I assembled the handle and ran the cables. Now I see why some people change the cable routing and add pulleys.

Other than that, the only concern I had was that the passenger side pulls the hook on the caliper a little bit further than the driver's side. Should I be worried?

passenger side:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163747&d=1646952132

driver's side:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163748&d=1646952132

sohcrates

03-10-2022, 06:41 PM

Getting the handle together went pretty smoothly. Pretty straightforward. I ended up using both nylon bushings inside the handle to get extra spring tension. The whole assembly was pretty tight up against the frame and the frame bracket, so I bent it away from the transmission tunnel a little bit and there was less interference.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163741&d=1646952117

I immediately saw why people change the routing of the cables and add a pulley to send the cables over the 4" frame tube. I can't believe the design has the cables exposed under the car and the frame tube is essentially used as a pulley. My cable coating was already chafing off from rubbing on the sharp edge of a bracket at the back of the frame tube.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163742&d=1646952117

Everything seemed to work OK, but it doesn't look like a good setup. The clevis assembly is in contact with the bottom of the parking brake handle bracket assembly when the parking brake is engaged.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163745&d=1646952132

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163746&d=1646952132

I am definitely going to look at doing a pulley and sending the cables over the top of the frame tube. I hope the cable length is neither too long nor too short to do this.

sohcrates

03-10-2022, 06:53 PM

I had some more time after working on the parking brake, so I started working on the pedal box. I attached the footbox front panel, but haven't drilled all the holes yet. I just wanted to cleco it in place to see how everything goes together.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163739&d=1646952104

As discussed in a previous post, I had to remove the steering shaft and bearing to get the pedal box bracket in. As predicted, there was interference between the bracket and the steering bearing flange, so I shaved that down some.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163749&d=1646952132

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163750&d=1646952142

That seemed to work and everything fit together OK.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163751&d=1646952142

I did notice that the build manual references 3 3/8"x 1" socket head bolts in the pedal box hardware pack and one in the pedal assmebly. This seemed confusing to me, as my pedal box hardware pack had 3 of those, plus 2 3/8" x 2" socket head bolts. There were none with the pedals. The manifest says that the 1" are the upper ones and the 2" bolts are the lower ones. I haven't put everything together yet, but I mocked it up using the 2" bolts on the bottom and the 1" bolts on the top. Hopefully this works out, as I only have 3 1" bolts...

JeffP

03-11-2022, 07:35 AM

I did notice that the build manual references 3 3/8"x 1" socket head bolts in the pedal box hardware pack and one in the pedal assmebly. This seemed confusing to me, as my pedal box hardware pack had 3 of those, plus 2 3/8" x 2" socket head bolts. There were none with the pedals. The manifest says that the 1" are the upper ones and the 2" bolts are the lower ones. I haven't put everything together yet, but I mocked it up using the 2" bolts on the bottom and the 1" bolts on the top. Hopefully this works out, as I only have 3 1" bolts...

I just completed this step yesterday and had the same confusion. No idea where that 4th 1" bolt is supposed to be, but why on earth they wouldn't keep them all together makes no sense. Also only 4 holes and 5 bolts if you go with the 2" ones? Thanks for pointing out the interference, I hadn't noticed it on mine and its there as well. I'll need to resolve that today.

sohcrates

03-11-2022, 08:38 AM

Glad I'm not the only one with a confusing number of bolts. Maybe it will all make sense when the full pedalbox is in. I'll let you know if I figure it out...

The flange bearing interference was pointed out to me when I was having trouble with the steering shaft. It seemed too long until moving the bearing and flange to the inside of the footbox. The added benefit that was also pointed out to me was that adjustment of the steering wheel on the shaft becomes easier with the bearing on the inside too. Looking around, it seems all the veteran builders put the flange and bearing on the inside of the footbox.

John Ibele

03-11-2022, 09:50 AM

Nice progress. And welcome to the e-brake - as you say, once you set it up and see the cables going under the frame it just doesn't look right, feel right, sit right with most builders. If you choose to keep your cables above the frame and redirected through pulleys, the cables will need to be shorter. If you don't have access to the tools to place a swaged end on the shorter cable length, you can use this Lokar part (https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Lokar-S-8070-Parking-Brake-Connector-Block,274778.html?sku=491S8070&utm_medium=CSEGoogle&utm_source=CSE&utm_campaign=CSEGOOGLE&gclid=CjwKCAiAg6yRBhBNEiwAeVyL0CtarTO-Yfm2mGchB38fOyOKJ7b8oeYO4HAtJW_YwpJcuWhy5i6PHxoCW2 UQAvD_BwE) WCA 8070 to hold both cable ends in one block, and then screw a rod end in the center, which can be captured directly in the brake lever assembly. Lokar has some other options in the same page in their online catalog. One image from my approach which borrowed shamelessly from others, but it's just one option. Lots of ways to do this well.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51620707590_5d02f67e15_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mDxBVQ)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2mDxBVQ) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

sohcrates

03-11-2022, 11:31 AM

Now that I really like. Solves both the issue of moving the cables over the frame and also the clevis rubbing on the bottom of the bracket. I'll have to think on that some more.

Springsyeti

03-11-2022, 02:30 PM

460.465USMC

03-11-2022, 04:43 PM

Nice progress. And welcome to the e-brake - as you say, once you set it up and see the cables going under the frame it just doesn't look right, feel right, sit right with most builders. If you choose to keep your cables above the frame and redirected through pulleys, the cables will need to be shorter. If you don't have access to the tools to place a swaged end on the shorter cable length, you can use this Lokar part (https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Lokar-S-8070-Parking-Brake-Connector-Block,274778.html?sku=491S8070&utm_medium=CSEGoogle&utm_source=CSE&utm_campaign=CSEGOOGLE&gclid=CjwKCAiAg6yRBhBNEiwAeVyL0CtarTO-Yfm2mGchB38fOyOKJ7b8oeYO4HAtJW_YwpJcuWhy5i6PHxoCW2 UQAvD_BwE) WCA 8070 to hold both cable ends in one block, and then screw a rod end in the center, which can be captured directly in the brake lever assembly. Lokar has some other options in the same page in their online catalog. One image from my approach which borrowed shamelessly from others, but it's just one option. Lots of ways to do this well.

Times two on what John said. I also used the Lokar piece and cut off the ends of the cables, as I didn't have tool/parts to swage on new ends. Plus, with the Lokar piece, easy enough to adjust cable tension if the cables stretch. The difference between John's approach and mine is he made a really cool bracket; overall a much nicer setup. I adjusted my cables so e-brake fully engages in 4-5 clicks.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150718&d=1626051615

sohcrates

03-12-2022, 08:45 AM

sohcrates

03-12-2022, 08:49 AM

Getting ready to start our build in a few weeks of one close to what you bought. I will need to hand the body also and saw your straps going through the wheel wells. Do you have anything supporting in the middle? Are you worried about the body bending upward at the ends?

Congrats on starting soon! I did support the cockpit opening with a support I made out of a couple of pieces of 2x4. Others have done this as well. Seems fine!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163822&d=1647090025

460.465USMC

03-12-2022, 02:48 PM

Thanks for the awesome ideas and pics Chris and John. I looked at your build threads and Looks like that Lokar block is the key to this setup. I had also read edwwardb's thread on this several times. Where did you guys source the pulleys? And where does one get small pieces of 1/8" steel? I'm sure I'll find it all at mcmaster carr, but if you remembered off hand it might save me the looking!

Hi Ethan,

Here's a link to the pulleys I bought on Amazon: NATIONAL HARDWARE N245-894 Pulley Assembly, 2 in Bore (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NCUY2O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1). Looks like they are about $8 each.

sohcrates

03-14-2022, 11:52 AM

Thanks Chris! I'm working an idea here. I'll post when I try it

John Ibele

03-14-2022, 12:50 PM

McMaster:

Pulley: 3434T24 (https://www.mcmaster.com/3434T24/)
Steel (4" x 4" x 1/8"): 1388K384 (https://www.mcmaster.com/1388K384/)
Threaded Rod: 99086A313 (https://www.mcmaster.com/99086A313/)
Ball Joint Rod End: 60645K33 (https://www.mcmaster.com/99086A313/)

Hope that helps! Cheers, John

sohcrates

03-15-2022, 02:28 PM

It does, thanks John for looking all of that up!!

I might try to work this somehow for a simpler way to both move the cables over the frame and get the clevis to clear the bottom of the bracket.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163970&d=1647372423

sohcrates

11-17-2022, 01:16 PM

Well, that was an unfortunate long layoff from building. Family, health, life all get in the way sometimes. But I'm back at it and I think I even recruited a new builder and forum member, and maybe even build help lifeline, so its all good. I am picking up where I left off after hitting a wall with the parking brake and studying the solutions from some others, noteably John and Chris, who posted above. I came up with a stainless pulley from Amazon, and decided to fabricate a bracket from 3/16" steel to offset the pulley towards the center of the car, where the now rerouted parking brake cables come forward.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175009&d=1668694041

I bolted the pulley to the bracket and the bracket to the frame. It's a nice wide pulley that accomodates both cables fine.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175010&d=1668694063

It succeeded in gertting the cables over and away from the big frame tube. The cable run isn't quite straight, given the placement of the cables and the handle, but it seems to work. I also sourced the lokar cable block from summit and a clevis rod end from McMaster.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175014&d=1668694063

I cut the ends off the cable with this. Worked pretty well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175012&d=1668694063

I was having a really hard time pulling on the cables to get enough tension into them. I ended up pushing the spring lever on the caliper itself to set the brake and then I secured it that way with zipties. I then tightened down the set screws on the cable block and cut the zipties. This seemed to preload the cable enough to put tension in it. The problem I am having is at the handle. The carriage bolt on the back side of the handle bracket is catching on the cable linkage and getting stuck. I couldn't get the cable low enough with the pulley.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175015&d=1668694189

After a whole day's effort to find all the hardware I needed and fabricate and paint that bracket, and get the cables tensioned, I was pretty frustrated, so I had to walk away for a while.

I think I am going to try to move the back of the handle bracket under the frame, which will both lower the linkage and turn the carriage bolt over, so maybe it won't catch on the linkage anymore. I see Chris has his carriage bolt with the head down and a similar linkage, and this seems to work for him. Fingers crossed. Like Chris, I also see the need to put a cushion clamp in to locate the cable better near the rear suspension. My mustang brakes have a completely different orientation of the parking brake though, so it'll be in a different place. Pictures to follow once that's all set.

sohcrates

11-17-2022, 01:27 PM

In other news, I took my friend who is ordering his kit soon out to meet Mike Forte the other day. While we were there, I asked about his progress on my engine and when I might expect it. Much to my surprise given the supply situation, this is what we found:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175016&d=1668694189

And it even had my name on it! He said its a couple weeks out. Very exciting!

sohcrates

11-17-2022, 05:50 PM

I guess I just needed a break...

I took the handle out and turned over the rear carriage bolt. I know it's not supposed to go this way, but it fit in the round hole well enough and tightened down fine. While I had it apart, I adjusted the position of the entire bracket, and it all looks good. The handle has plenty of clearance from the trans tunnel and the cable linkage slides over the rounded head of the carriage bolt just fine. The cables route through the pulley, and don't touch the frame.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175038&d=1668724775

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175040&d=1668724775

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175041&d=1668724788

This time I used clamps to close the parking brake calipers.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175036&d=1668724775

With them closed like this, I could set the tension in the Lokar cable block with the handle in a mid position. Releasing the clamps, the cable tension is enough to have the cables stay in the pulley, and after about 5 clicks, the brake is fully set. I then trimmed the ends of the cable and left some room for future adjustment. Mission finally accomplished. I just have to put a couple of cushion clamps on the cables near the rear suspension.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175042&d=1668724788

sohcrates

11-18-2022, 05:14 PM

Got the cushion clamps in. I riveted them in and now the lines go straight back from the frame brackets. The lines stay out of the way of the suspention too. All done.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175111&d=1668809099

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175112&d=1668809099

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175113&d=1668809099

John Ibele

11-18-2022, 11:12 PM

Feels good when it’s done, doesn’t it? And it looks fine. I remember putting in a carriage bolt or two backwards after literally turning a round into a square hole to accommodate the change. Whatever works to get it in the right position to keep things from binding.

Don’t forget the teeth on the brake aren’t hardened. So push the button down when setting the brake so the pawl doesn’t wear the teeth down. I actually found a place that would heat treat mine, but I decided yet another $40, a drive across town and another 4 day wait just weren’t worth it.

sohcrates

11-19-2022, 08:29 AM

Thanks John,

Youre not the first to point that out, unfortunately. Thanks also for your help on this. I don't know why this particular project was such a struggle for me.

460.465USMC

11-19-2022, 04:12 PM

Looking good, Sohcrates. I like that doublewide pulley. Nice find. It came together nicely.

P.S. I had the chance to visit Forte at his business when I flew in for the F5 open house in June. I bought my Coyote and TKO from him. Lots of interesting history in that building.

sohcrates

11-19-2022, 04:37 PM

460.465USMC

11-19-2022, 07:24 PM

The drivetrain is such a huge decision, with so many factors to consider. In my limited experience with my Gen3 Coyote, I'm happy. Granted, I'm only a little past go-kart stage, but so far it hasn't given me any reason to be disappointed. I like the idea of having the army of Ford engineers behind my crate Coyote in terms of design, reliability, and performance. It does require a professional tune, which I'll do next year (hopefully!), and that adds some bucks to the build. From what I've read its friendly when you just want to putt around town, and ready to rip when your right foot gets heavy. I think it redlines at 7,000 or 7,500 RPM--not that I'll be hanging out on that end of the tach much!

It's my understanding it can be mated to the T56 Magnum (6 speed by Tremec) and fits in the MK4. Here's a current build thread with a Coyote Gen3 and T56: Danny Boy's Mk4 Build (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Mk4-Build-VIN-verification-and-SB100-number). He's toward the end of his build, so would be a good source of info. I'm sure there are other builders on the forum who've done the same in the MK4, but this one comes to mind quickly.

sohcrates

11-19-2022, 10:24 PM

Thanks Chris, that's awesome info. I do like to rev it out once in a while, and that redline has me jealous!!

juddster

11-19-2022, 11:13 PM

Thanks Chris. Nothing like a double wide to make it happen;). Forte and his shop are certainly quite the institution. Irreplacable knowledge and know how, for sure. My friend who is about to buy a kit is thinking Coyote. Are you happy you went that route? I've always been curious, can you use the mustang 6-speed transmission, or does that packaging necessitate a TKO/TKX?

I went the 6-speed (MT82) Mustang route with my MKIV. It works but there are a few things to be aware of. The first is that you will need to convert the long shift linkage OEM set up. Forma Cars (on the forum) makes a great kit. This is what I used. It comes with all the hardware to put the shifter right where it needs to be in regards to the transmission and the placement in the vehicle. They include a new aluminum top sheet for the tunnel with the hole in the right place and nutserts, a nice aluminum dress up ring and a black leather boot, but it is $850. The next is the drive shaft. This requires a custom drive shaft that includes an aluminum yoke ($300ish) to replace the stock flexible joint (called a Guibo). Mine cost me $950, and I haven't heard of one much less than that. So that is an $1,800 hit right at the beginning. The mounting is the same using the FFR provided hardware.

I chose to do this because I got a Coyote Gen2 and MT82 package at a price that made it worth it and I wanted to do something a little different. Hope this helps.

sohcrates

11-20-2022, 08:57 AM

I went the 6-speed (MT82) Mustang route with my MKIV. It works but there are a few things to be aware of. The first is that you will need to convert the long shift linkage OEM set up. Forma Cars (on the forum) makes a great kit. This is what I used. It comes with all the hardware to put the shifter right where it needs to be in regards to the transmission and the placement in the vehicle. They include a new aluminum top sheet for the tunnel with the hole in the right place and nutserts, a nice aluminum dress up ring and a black leather boot, but it is $850. The next is the drive shaft. This requires a custom drive shaft that includes an aluminum yoke ($300ish) to replace the stock flexible joint (called a Guibo). Mine cost me $950, and I haven't heard of one much less than that. So that is an $1,800 hit right at the beginning. The mounting is the same using the FFR provided hardware.

I chose to do this because I got a Coyote Gen2 and MT82 package at a price that made it worth it and I wanted to do something a little different. Hope this helps.

Thanks Juddster, that's great info. I'll pass it along to my friend. I think he wants to do that transmission if he ends up with the coyote.

Springsyeti

11-20-2022, 08:11 PM

Nice build. I should get my motor from Mike at the end of December. Question, are your rear shocks upside down for a reason?

sohcrates

11-21-2022, 04:43 PM

Nice build. I should get my motor from Mike at the end of December. Question, are your rear shocks upside down for a reason?

Hey Yeti,

I did agonize quite a bit over that. The manual says the double adjustable shocks should be upside down for the IRS, but is a little ambiguous about the regular red shocks. The pictures in the manual show the silver shocks. Looking around at most recent builds with IRS and the stock shocks, most guys are putting them in upside down, so I followed suit. Eventually (after putting them in upside down), I did find this video from FFR:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk8Afyu7UQw

At about the 0:48 Mark, he states that the red shocks can be mounted either way and that the silvers need to be upside down.

sohcrates

02-12-2023, 09:29 AM

Another long layoff from working on the car. Maybe I ordered my kit a few years before it was optimal for my life, but here it is, so we'll just take it slow I guess. This event should get me motivated to prioritize some work on the car. Mike Forte finished my engine after waiting forever for blocks from Ford. I went and picked it up the other day. Its a 427 with AFR heads and and E cam and sniper EFI. I went with the TKX tansmission and a hyrdraulic clutch. It made 460 hp and 530 ft lbs.

It was a little bit of an adventure getting it out of the truck at home, but my son and I got it done. Now it sits in the parking spot for my car, so I'll have to get it in before spring so I can park my car!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179828&d=1676211454

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179827&d=1676211454

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179826&d=1676211454

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179831&d=1676211469

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179832&d=1676211469

cc2Arider

02-12-2023, 10:33 AM

Namrups

02-13-2023, 10:19 AM

I bought my engine from Mike. I did end up picking it up but during conversations with him he said if needed he would ship on a truck with a lift gate.

460.465USMC

02-13-2023, 03:24 PM

Sohcrates,

Did you go to Mike's shop to pick it up since you are (relatively) local? I think he ships otherwise (to far-away hinterlands). I'm anxiously awaiting mine for a delivery sometime in March.

Looks like I'll need to rent a forklift to get it off the shipping truck unless they typically get shipped with a drop/lift gate?

Craig C

Hi Craig. I also ordered my drivetrain from Forte (Coyote/TKO) and had it shipped to me here in Spokane. Mike had it crated such that everything was well protected. To save a few bucks, I opted to pick it up at the shipping dock here in Spokane, but lift gate service was available. They loaded it with a forklift onto my trailer. At home I used my four post lift to pick it up just enough to slide the trailer out from underneath.

460.465USMC

02-13-2023, 03:27 PM

Great looking motor, Ethan. Congrats on getting it home. A motivating site, no doubt.

I think I’m on a 3-4 year build pace. Whatever pace works for you and brings the most enjoyment is my $0.02.

sohcrates

02-16-2023, 10:22 AM

Sorry guys, I was out of town for a few days at work, but it looks like questions were answered about delivery and packaging from Forte. As you can see, they put it in my truck with a forklift, but I was able to get it out of my truck using a 1 ton shop crane I bought from harbor freight for $229. Just had to take the tailgate off in order to allow the crane to reach the motor. In conversations with Mike, I understood that he has several ways to get your motor to you, so I'm sure he can solve whatever logistical issues you have. Certainly not his first rodeo.

Definitely nice to have the motor here, and it definitely is motivating. Hoping to get some work in this afternoon if I can evade my wife's honey do list! Glad to hear I'm not the only one on a longer term build plan...

sohcrates

02-16-2023, 05:23 PM

Well I managed to get a couple of hours in today. I got back to the pedal box I had started so many months ago. Took some time to get back up to speed. I riveted in the footbox front, carefully spacing the rivets out.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180072&d=1676585532

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180071&d=1676585532

I then started test fitting the pedal box , and I still have the issue of an incorrect number of bolts. I have 3 1" bolts and 2 much longer ones, so I guess I'll use the 3 1" and either go get another one if I can find a match or just use one of the longer ones. They also haven't aged well in my garage. They are already showing rust. Strange. I immediately discovered that 3 of the rivets were interfering with the pedal box. Thinking back to test fitting this months ago and noticing at that time that this might happen, I kicked myself. So I drilled out the 3 rivets. I'll fill those holes with silicone.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180073&d=1676585532

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180074&d=1676585532

At this point I was annoyed about the extra holes and still wondering about what hardware to use, so I quit to check the forums. Maybe get this wrapped up tomorrow.

mladen

02-16-2023, 09:18 PM

Good progress! Wanted to drop one note about that front aluminum piece. I see you glued. And riveted the top part. I did that too, and then had to undo it for the rest of the aluminum panels to align. I documented it in this post https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43812-Mladen-s-MK4-Build-Thread&p=503066&viewfull=1#post503066 Not sure if it will be an issue for you, but in case you run into it, that's what it is.

sohcrates

02-17-2023, 12:54 PM

Thank you! I peeked at your build thread and see you are working much faster than me!!! That's why I just clecoed this part in for so long, but you can't really deal with the steering shaft until this is done, so I bit the bullet, knowing it may have to come off. It aligns just right with all of the holes in the frame as it is, and I can see it may need some trimming in places, but I'll just cross that bridge when I get to it and am mentally prepared to have to do that over...

sohcrates

03-19-2023, 03:10 PM

Managed a little time this weekend. Finished up the mounting of the pedal box and master cylinders. I discovered that I had put the brackets for the brake and clutch switches on the wrong side of the pedal box frame and they wouldn't reach the pedals. I tried to move them with everything still in place, but failed, so ended up taking the whole pedal box off anyway. Resulted in some bad language and frame scratches, but I eventually got everything together. I am interested to see how the adjusting of the balance bar and pedal height goes. The brake pedal sure is close to the frame....

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181778&d=1679256092

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181777&d=1679256092

sohcrates

10-09-2023, 04:26 PM

Another really long layoff caused by home reparis, family health issues and trying to raise a teenager. At this rate, I should have a go cart in 10 or 12 years....

But, I'm going to do better than that. Should be easier to get time in during the colder months with less going on outside. The build is always on my mind so my gears are always churning about how to attack certain issues. I managed a little bit of time today, and after taking a while to find all of the parts I had put aside so many months ago, I finished up the steering linkage. As recommended by many on this forum, I moved the bottom bearing flange to the inside of the footbox, and then put the bearing in with its collar in the engine bay. This allowed everything to fit without interference. The lower shaft is still a little long, and is protruding about 1/8" into both U joints. Seems not to be interfering with anything, so I'll call it good.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190975&d=1696884807

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190976&d=1696884807

Despite living in my heated garage, the upper shaft had started to rust in places, so I sanded it a bit to get rid of most of it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190977&d=1696884807

I used these spring washers to insert the upper shaft into the lower. It took a fair amount of banging to get the upper shaft into the lower all the way to the second spring washer. I hope I don't ever have to take this apart. I have no idea how I would get that shaft out...

The clearance from the frame on the upper shaft seemed OK. At least 1/8" in all positions.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190978&d=1696884807

After having read some posts about clutch pedal master cylinder shaft trimming, I fiddled with the clutch MC a bit. I trimmed the rod like I did the brake MC rods, but it still protrudes a little. It doesn't seem to interfere with the pedal at any point, so maybe I'll leave it untrimmed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190979&d=1696884807

The pedal can move all the way through its travel, limited only by the master cylinder. It is 1 5/8" from the front wall of the footbox fully depressed, and even with the brake pedal at 7 3/4" when fully out. Seems good. I have read that I may want to go to a 1" master cylinder for lighter effort, but maybe I'll see how it is before making the change.

I'm hoping for more progress soon. I plan to finish up the passenger footbox aluminum and then move to the fuel system.

cv2065

10-09-2023, 07:02 PM

Glad you are back at it! Progress not perfection!

Regarding the steering shaft, speaking from the same experience, you shouldn't have to 'bang' it together. I did the same thing to the point where I couldn't get it apart again. Funny thing is that I knew that it couldn't be right, but kept banging away like the apes on 2001 A Space Odyssey. I called up FFR and they replaced it with one that slid easily in and out of the shaft. I believe that it is designed to collapse in the event of an accident so it needs to move. I learned one thing on that build, many times as an expensive and time-consuming lesson. If you feel that you have to force something to go together or work, then stop for a moment and see where the issue might be. Keep at it!

sohcrates

10-10-2023, 03:55 AM

Thanks for that! Glad I mentioned it. How did you get it out?

egchewy79

10-10-2023, 04:20 AM

Consider a slide hammer. Then polish the inner shaft with sand paper or emery cloth until it slides in easily

cv2065

10-10-2023, 09:34 AM

Thanks for that! Glad I mentioned it. How did you get it out?

I never did. I sent the entire assembly as was back to FFR.

sohcrates

10-10-2023, 05:00 PM

Thanks guys. I'll have to figure out what to do there. Glad I brought it up. I'm inclined to go to FFR about it. I wasn't very happy about the rust on that shaft to begin with. May be a good time to buy a slide hammer as well...

Jeff Kleiner

10-10-2023, 06:17 PM

The male steering shaft almost always needs to be cleaned up to move freely. A few minutes with some fine emery cloth will shine it right up and have it sliding in and out without having to resort to hammers ;)

Jeff

sohcrates

10-10-2023, 06:34 PM

Thanks Jeff,

Now if I can just get it out.....

sohcrates

10-17-2023, 05:59 PM

Well,

I got it out. Wasn't easy. I had to take the whole shaft out of the car, and then I stuck a pry bar down the female shaft and banged the whole thing on the ground until the male shaft came out. It took a fair amount of sanding, but the shaft eventually fit better, and was able to go in just by pushing hard on it. On to the next thing. I hear Russ Thompson has passed on. I had intended to get his steering column turn signal mod and drop trunk. Anyone found good sources for these now? I have inquired with IE427 and Mountain Metalworks but havent heard back.

cv2065

10-17-2023, 08:39 PM

gbranham

10-18-2023, 10:26 AM

I just bought my drop trunk kit from TJ at Mountain Metalworks. Plan on getting their pedal and turn signal as well.

Just roughed-in my Mountain Metalworks drop trunk this past weekend. Quality product!

191304

sohcrates

10-18-2023, 07:29 PM

Got a little more time in today. I played with the Breeze gas pedal and figured out how it will integrate with the Forte throttle linkage. Removed the throttle cable linkage from the pedal and drilled out the hole to accomodate the bar end from the Forte kit. I then bolted it in, guessing where its going to go. I wonder how easy this will be to change when it needs to be adjusted to the Forte linkage once the engine is in and the footbox is closed up. I guess we will see...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191349&d=1697674774

I also began drilling and riveting the passenger footbox aluminum. No real issues here yet with only 2 pieces installed. The only question mark was with the center tunnel piece. I assumed it should be centered so there is a little bit of room on either side between the flange and the transmission tunnel.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191356&d=1697674846

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191357&d=1697674846

sohcrates

10-18-2023, 07:31 PM

Niiiice... I heard back from them and am ordering the drop trunk and turn signal kit. He said there was a little bit of a wait for that one. He's still getting caught up.

cc2Arider

10-20-2023, 12:43 PM

Hi Ethan,

Can you describe a little more how the RT Accel Pedal integrates with the Forte' rod setup? I have the latter and am waiting on the former...

I can imagine that one of the linkage rods actually installs inside the footbox (just between the inner wall and the inner 3/4" square frame tube), but do you have more pictures that you can share? Also, does the 2nd "main" rod support get bolted to the firewall inside the footbox or outside?

Thanks,
Craig C

F500guy

10-21-2023, 09:48 AM

I just purchased a straight pedal bar from MMW, the curve on the original RT pedal had my foot very close to the inside wall before any carpet or heat shield.

sohcrates

10-22-2023, 09:49 AM

Hey Craig,

Do you have the instructions for Forte's linkage? If not, they can be found here: https://fortesparts.com/technical-documents-instructions/

There are some pictures of how the whole thing bolts together, and he even used the RT pedal in the pictures.

I haven't gotten very far with this, and I don't yet have any of the Forte linkage actually installed, but I have it figured out in my mind. My firewall is only clecoed in at this point, so I haven't installed the shaft supports, and my engine isn't in yet, so you can't tell where the throttle body end of the rod goes.

Basically, the rotating shaft goes parallel to the firewall, and both its supports bolt to the firewall outside of the footbox, in the engine compartment. The big washers lend them support. You'll cut a hole in the footbox wall for the shaft to go through into the footbox. The two rods are reverse threaded on one end, for the ball joints to screw into. Both rods get cot to the appropriate length, and then once you have cut them, you tap threads into the other end for the regular thread ball joints to go in. One rod goes straight back from the throttle body towards the rotating shaft, and the other goes inside the footbox from the shaft to the gas pedal. The adjustability comes from the length of the rods and the angle of the connecting arms on the shaft.

The Breeze/RT gas pedal has two different linkages to connect to different throttle cables, but you won't use either. You'll bolt one of the Forte rod end ball joints to it instead. The hole isn't big enough, so I openned it up to 1/4" to accomodate the ball joint. I used the reverse threaded one so I can attach the rod and then trim the other end as needed before threading it.

As I said, I don't have most of it installed,but here are a couple pictures of the gas pedal. I'm not sure where on the frame tube it will end up, and won't for a while yet.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191350&d=1697674774

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=191351&d=1697674826

IT all does look pretty tight in there. I am prepared to do some bending of the pedal if needed so that everything (including my foot) fits.

cv2065

10-22-2023, 11:09 AM

I had to adjust the RT gas pedal a little. The dog leg bends easily in a vice. Regarding your Forte throttle linkage, you should have all of that adjusted before you button up the footbox. The rod ends are adjustable, so very easy to do.

sohcrates

10-22-2023, 11:51 AM

Thanks for that. Good to know. I was concerned about that. I'd prefer to be able to sit in the seat and adjust the pedal for ideal placement. I'll also need to measure the full travel of the throttle body to make sure I'm getting the right range of motion at the pedal. Maybe I'm overthinking it?

cv2065

10-22-2023, 12:09 PM

You are definitely thinking about it the right way. You want the Forte linkage to allow for full extension of the throttle body without overextension. Might want to think about a pedal stop once you get it configured correctly. And don't forget to roll pin the lever arms to the SS rod to avoid slippage.

sohcrates

10-22-2023, 04:15 PM

Thanks for the tips!

cc2Arider

10-22-2023, 06:33 PM

Hi Ethan,

Thanks for the extra pictures and link :)

I've been the Forte' website many times, but never visited the Tech Support page. I ended up calling them last Friday and they told me it was right there. I had a good mental image of the overall arrangement, but was short on some details until I saw the pictures.

I'm also trying to think ahead (like you) and the challenging thing about this install is that the panels really need to be located/drilled after the engine is installed or very careful measurements are taken...or iterations to that effect.

I've heard other builders say that you build the car several times before it is done -- I believe it now! Thanks again for the pictures :)

Craig C

sohcrates

02-05-2024, 06:07 PM

Still working at a snail's pace, but working nonetheless. I picked up where I left off with the passenger side footbox. I got most of the way through it. Everything seemed to fit together reasonably well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195336&d=1707164677

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195335&d=1707164677

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195341&d=1707164690

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195340&d=1707164690

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195339&d=1707164690

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195338&d=1707164690

I need to fabricate a small filler piece to close up the gap around the Round frame tube. I plan to use aluminum tape to seal everything up, and then insulate the insides afterwards.

I started test fitting the passenger side cockpit floor piece, and that project looks like a bear. It was really difficult to get in to place at all, especially with the parking brake handle in place. The handle will certainly have to come out for final installation of the floor, and it looks like I might have to do some trimming of the floor aluminum at the far outer edge at the back side. A lot of scraping and bending and force to get it to fit into place. I think I also decided to wait to install the floor pieces until at least the brake lines and fuel lines are run, and maybe even parts of the wiring harness as well. I can't tell if they'll be in the way, so it seems to me harmless to wait for now.

Looking ahead to what's next, it looks like the fuel system will be next. I seem to remember that people find it much easier to get longer tank strap bolts. Anyone know what size works best? I am also doing the klener mod and a drop trunk. Any advice on what order to do all of these things in? Is it Kleiner then fuel tank, then drop trunk?

cc2Arider

02-06-2024, 02:36 PM

Looking good Ethan :)

I use a small flat blade screwdriver to lever the Passenger-side cockpit floor past the standard handbrake mounting tab...at least I used to. Cut mine off this past weekend (but only after I really knew I had a workable alternative) :)

My floor panels did not fit well at the rear, either. I ended up making some shims. No harm in making it fit the best you can.

As far as order-of-execution goes. I tend to mock-up parts before "locking it down". To each their own...

In fact, the only panels that I've riveted are the "F" panels...and I'm considering removing them anyway:p

Craig C

sohcrates

02-06-2024, 08:27 PM

Thanks Craig. I'm trying to balance my need to check off boxes in my head with keeping my options open and accessible! I am erring on the side of options...

sohcrates

02-13-2024, 02:17 PM

I know, I'm all over the place. Some days I don't have time in the workshop but I can squeeze in some research and planning between other tasks. I had some thoughts on the brakes, as I'll be doing the hard lines soon.

1. A lot of builders seem to prefer pressure bleeding the brakes. Are the hand pump ones less likely to do the job than the ones that use a air compressor? Does anyone know if the Wilwood billet remote fluid reservoirs accept the standard 45mm adapters? I measured it with a caliper and it was just over 45 mm.

2. Most people say to bench bleed the MCs. Having already installed them, I'd prefer not to take them off to do it. I understand they need to be level to be properly bled. Is there any reason not to just jack up the front of the car to make them level and just bench bleed them in place?

Any input is welcome and appreciated!!

Railroad

02-13-2024, 03:40 PM

Before you start buying tools to bleed the brakes, try gravity bleeding.
I have the Wilwood master cylinders and calipers. I filled the reservoirs and opened the bleeder to the passenger rear caliper. After a few minutes it was dripping. The remaining 3 bleed the same. I topped the reservoir off for each caliper. I did pump bleed them all and found a minute amount of air in a couple.
IMO about the only thing that will interfere with this method is the master cylinders not being at full release.
Good luck,

Nigel Allen

02-13-2024, 04:15 PM

X2 on Railroad's experience. It was a no stress event for me too.

egchewy79

02-13-2024, 04:31 PM

I installed the cockpit floors before the brake/fuel lines were installed. not a huge deal to lay on my side to install these. you need to get under the car to secure the lines where the seats go anyway due to the cockpit floor.

for the trunk, do the Kleiner mod first, then install the drop trunk (if using the RT drop trunk kit) and then the fuel tank. With the tank in place, you won't be able to install the drop trunk or the lower PS bolt for the Kleiner mod. I'd get everything plumbed up first before installing the lower trunk aluminum panel. you can always cleco the drop trunk in place while you're working. I'd consider running the rear wiring harness and hook things up to where they belong before putting the lower trumk aluminum in .

I did a pressure bleed for the brakes. use a hand/bike pump to around 5-10psi. too much pressure and you might blow out your master cylinder diaphragms. I didn't bench bleed the MCs and it worked just fine.

Mike.Bray

02-13-2024, 05:07 PM

These are pure gold when bleeding brakes. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CMDP44?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

I used to use a small bottle with a hose running into it but I'm so clumsy I would always knock it over spilling brake fluid everywhere.

sohcrates

02-14-2024, 10:03 AM

Awesome stuff guys, thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for!

sohcrates

02-16-2024, 05:28 PM

More random thoughts as I peruse other build threads. I see a lot of people grease the control arm bushings before installation, both in the zerk fitting and on the side. I didn't get the memo. Is it worth taking everything apart to accomplish this or do I just hit all the zerks and call it good?

sohcrates

02-17-2024, 06:25 PM

I bit the bullet and dedided to take off and grease all of the control arms. I also decided to check the adjustment settings of all four shocks while I was at it. It never occurred to me that they might not come in the correct setting. The rears were both good, but both fronts were messed up. Neither of them stops when you rotate the shaft trying to adjust them, and one of them leaks pretty bad when you press the adjustment button. I have reached out to factory five to see what they say. I also got one side of the rear suspension taken apart, greased and put back together. There was some straining, banging, and quite a bit of blood, but I got it done. The other 3 corners should go quicker, I think.

I'd also like to echo CV2065's plug for the locknlube zerk coupler. Fantastic. I was also very happy about my milwaukee cordless electric grease gun and the Lucas oil Green heavy duty grease.

sohcrates

02-18-2024, 03:06 PM

Well, I managed to finish up that project. A bit of a pain to take everything apart and coax the control arms back into place, and also to clean up all the grease, but I'm glad its done. While I was working on the front, I noticed the condition of the front upper ball joint dust boots. Holy cow. The manual says that they will deform and look wierd until there is weight on the suspension, but I don't think this is what was meant:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195750&d=1708286179

The other one wasn't as bad, but still has a crack and hole in it. That stinks.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195751&d=1708286179

I sourced all of the hardware for the kleiner mod, so I'll be sticking those couplers in soon. Then I think I'll run the brake lines and mount the reservoirs. I have the Forte/Wilwood triple reservoir. It seems most people mount these to the frame tube in front of the driver footbox. Any clearance issues I should be aware of?

sohcrates

02-22-2024, 10:09 AM

Another day of one step forward two steps back. I decided to address the upper ball joint dust boots. Way back when, I had bought the energy suspension dust boots (5.13102G) but they didn't really seem to fit to me, so I didn't use them. Now that the FFR ones have disintegrated, I am going to try the energy ones again. My progress on the car has been so slow that the front suspension has been sitting up in the air for over 2 years. I don't know if that contributed to the deterioration of the dust boots, but it certainly seems to have seized up the front suspension joints. It took an hour of prying and banging to get just one side apart. I tried some penetrating oil and some heat, but at the end of the day, it took a hammer, and not a dead blow one, to get it all apart. Am I doing something wrong here? Should I be putting anti-seize on these?

I dug out the energy dust boots, and wasn't too sure which of the two styles was best. This one, the longer one, seemed to fit better, but I see others have used the shorter, flatter one up here. I guess I'll try that one again.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195885&d=1708613981

In other news, I heard back from factory five about my defective shocks. They say they'll replace the leaking one, but not the other one. Every communication cycle seems to take at least 24 hours, so I'm not sure where I stand yet, but I'm not going to be thrilled if I have to pay to replace the other shock. It's definitely not working right.

sohcrates

02-22-2024, 12:45 PM

Yeah, that looks a little better with the shorter, flatter dust boot. This picture has the suspension jacked up with a floor jack, so hopefully when it droops, it wont deform the boot too bad. I am sort of waiting to torque it all up again until I figure out if I'm going to use any anti-seize on the ball joint shafts.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195905&d=1708623610

I also decided to retro-actively hit the rust prone parts of my axle shafts with some POR 15, so I started the prep for that. And while I was at it, I decided to hit the ABS sensor holes in the rear knuckles with silicone. What a mess. Probably a mistake to do that now, but at least its done. If you do this after the fact, be very sparing with the silicone. I didn't realize those holes went through to the bottom and got silicone everywhere. Pain in the neck to clean up with everything in place...

sohcrates

02-23-2024, 08:10 PM

Well, I think learning has occurred. A frustrating couple of hours in the workshop, to be sure. On the plus side, I finished prepping for POR 15 of the axles, so I'll be able to paint tomorrow once things are dry. That didn't take long. I decided to try to reassemble the front suspension with the energy dust boot, and found that all of my hammering had destroyed the threads on that ball joint, and I couldn't get the castle nut on. So after all of that, it seems I will need at least one new ball joint. Probably not worth trying to put new threads on that thing...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195994&d=1708736143

I guess I'll be deciding whether to upgrade to the Howe ball joints that others have used, or to just replace this one. Do I want to disassemble both upper control arms, or just one?

Either way, while trying to disassemble the other side and finding the same stuck ball joint, I learned that its better to spend the time and money on the right tool than to create extra problems by being impatient. An irritating and expensive lesson to be sure, but I'll be finding myself a ball joint separator along with my replacement parts.

And Factory Five isn't going to help with both of my bad shocks, just the leaking one. Not cool. $165 to replace a part that was bad from the get go. A very expensive day in the shop all put together.

sohcrates

02-23-2024, 08:28 PM

The Howes ball joints are $100 apeice plus dust boots. I think I'll find another mevotech....

sohcrates

02-26-2024, 06:11 PM

At the rate I am taking one step forward and two steps back, I will have the whole kit disassembled pretty soon! I got a ball joint separator, and even though its a little tough to get the fork in between the spindle and the boot, once its in, the ball joint is out in 30 seconds.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196096&d=1708978689

I was also able to get the damaged ball joint out of the driver's side, and after some scuffing with a wire brush my new Moog K772 ball joint threaded right in to the upper control arm. That was as far as I could progress.

None of the dust boots work on either of the ball joints. Here is the Energy Suspension dust boot on the Mevotech ball joint:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196094&d=1708978493

It just won't seat all the way, and the gap gets worse when you move the suspension up and down. The boot is just too small. It looks the same on the Moog Ball joint.

The dust boot that came with the Moog ball joint is even worse. It just collapses on itself:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196095&d=1708978493

I got so frustrated with the situation, I just had to quit for the day. I don't know what the solution is. The mevotech boots fit OK, but both of them had cracked just sitting in my garage....

I could really use some advice here. Has anyone had these issues? Is spending over $200 on the Howe ball joints and boots really the only answer?

edwardb

02-26-2024, 08:15 PM

Energy Suspension 5.13102G dust boots are the right parts. The small/shorter ones are used for the upper ball joints. When drooped, they may look like they don't fit. But at ride height should slide into place. This is from one of my builds. You can see it in the background. Sorry, best pic I could find. In this case, Howe ball joints under the covers. But shouldn't change how they fit with Moog or Mevotech. Notw also Energy Suspenion boots on the tie rods. Those are Energy Suspension 9.13101G dust boots. Also highly recommended.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Front%20Suspension/.highres/IMG_3382_zpsbqzdcset.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds (https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Front%20Suspension/.highres/IMG_3382_zpsbqzdcset.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)

sohcrates

02-27-2024, 11:20 AM

Thanks as always Paul for your knowledge, experience and willingness to help. After sleeping on it I had pretty much decided to use the energy ones and then just keep an eye on them as I put the drivetrain in and put it down on the wheels. Your 20th Anniversary build is like a build manual for me.

sohcrates

02-27-2024, 05:37 PM

Sometimes you just have to clear your head, I guess. I'm still a little leery of how those dust boots fit, but I put it all back together. They look OK in the middle of the front suspension's movement, but not very good at either full droop or full up. I don't currently have the shocks in, so those will obviously prevent the suspension from reaching either extreme, as will the weight of the car, so at this point, I'm just going to hope that's good enough and keep an eye on them and keep them greased. Here's what they look like at full up and full down.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196186&d=1709072883

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196187&d=1709072883

Other side:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196188&d=1709072883

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196189&d=1709072883

I also put a second coat of POR15 on the axles and installed the coupler nuts for the kleiner mod. Much more satisfying to check a couple of boxes than continue to wrestle with dust boots. As others have found, I was unable to get a wrench on the ball joint castle nuts to properly torque them. They seem to be between 13/16" and 7/8". I couldn't get the 13/16 crows foot on and the 7/8 would slip off with any torque. So I just did it by feel. Very scientific.

Factory Five also came through and is sending me two new shocks. That is the customer service you hear about and hope for.

sohcrates

04-29-2024, 07:59 AM

Been a little bit but I got some time in this weekend. I managed to fabricate a hydraulic reservoir bracket. I started with a 12” square plate of 1/8” aluminum and cut it down using a cut off wheel and smoothed it off with the bench grinder. I tried to match the slight curve of the frame rail. I mounted it as close to the footbox as I thought was practical. These wilwood reservoirs from Forte can be moved up and down in the bracket so I can mount them such that the caps stay flush with the frame rail for body mounting purposes.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198748&d=1714352943

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198746&d=1714352943

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198752&d=1714352963

sohcrates

04-29-2024, 08:09 AM

I also started working on the brake lines. I went back and forth quite a bit about finding some shorter lengths or even getting a flaring tool and making custom lengths like others have, but in the end decided to try to give it a go with what I have. I love adding tools to the arsenal but you can’t do it every time and I figured it was best to reduce the risk of leaking lines due to bad flares. I do tend to overthink things a little bit so I just went for it. I did buy a cheap tubing bender for nice smooth bends where there is room to get the tool on the line and it has helped.

I started with pieces of wire cut to the length of the brake lines to make templates, using handy items like wine bottles to create loops. I got a couple lengths in before running out of time. I started from the footbox and used the edwardb routing. Pretty happy so far. I haven’t had to throw any out yet.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198759&d=1714353007

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198756&d=1714352986

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198758&d=1714352986

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=198762&d=1714353007

sohcrates

06-05-2024, 04:34 PM

Found a couple of hours today. After finally getting 2 replacement front shocks from FFR, I reassembled them and then reinstalled them and torqued the bolts. Feels good to have that back together. I'm still not thrilled with those ball joint dust boots, but I can't mess with it any more and others seem to be happy with the same setup.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200330&d=1717622795

I also messed with the castle nuts and cotter pins on those ball joints, making sure everything looked OK. The replacent ball joints had the hole for the cotter pin in a different place, so on one side only one washer was required.

I then finished bending the front brake lines. The line crossing to the right side didn't come out quite as good, but it's a pretty complicated shape. Overall, I'm happy, and it'll look good once I clamp it into place. I've seen others with similarly shaped lines. Any chance any of those loops will interfere with engine installation?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200331&d=1717622814

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200332&d=1717622814

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200333&d=1717622814

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200334&d=1717622814

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200335&d=1717622814

gbranham

06-05-2024, 09:05 PM

Those Energy Suspension boots you installed...I replaced my craptacular kit-supplied blue ones with the same Energy Suspension kit, but when I installed them, I erroneously put the wrong ones on, and the incorrect ones set just like yours do. I swapped them for the other two in the package, and they fit much better. You sure you didn't put the wrong ones on?

sohcrates

06-06-2024, 08:17 AM

Thanks for that. I have agonized quite a bit over this, having tried 4 different dust boots with none really looking perfect. See posts 144-149 above. I did try the longer ones and they got too squished. Paul (edwardb) confirmed that he used these same ones, so that’s as good as gospel for me. In the middle of the suspension travel, they seem ok. It’s only at the extremes where they don’t look good. I guess if they’re greased and spend 99.9% of their life away from those extremes, it’s probably ok. I do wish they fit more securely. The blue ones that came with the kit seemed ok but didn’t even last 2 years in my climate controlled garage without cracking.

sohcrates

07-04-2024, 03:54 PM

Happy independence day, everyone! I was all scheduled to work today, and I sent the family to the lake for the holiday, and they cancelled my work day. I still have to work tomorrow, so what was I to do with the day? Easy answer. All by myself with time to kill, I got a few hours in on the build today. Having spent some time thinking about the routing of the rear brake lines, I knew I was going the edwardb route and running the line through the footbox and out the bottom to join the frame rail. I had to drill a big enough hole to get the brake line nut through it, so it seemed like it was time to put in the driver's side footbox floor. I mocked the whole footbox up to see how things were going to fit, and saw that things looked pretty good, even with the FF Metals forward firewall changing the fit of some of the pieces. I measured three times before drilling, and got the floor all riveted in.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=201389&d=1720125888

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=201390&d=1720125888

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=201391&d=1720125888

sohcrates

07-04-2024, 04:09 PM

I then played with some 1/2" grommets I got, making holes in them with some leather punch drill bits I got on amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0063VCHBU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I then slit the grommets to get them on the brake lines. It was a little tough to drill the hole in the gas pedal bracket, but I managed to get it done. I then started mocking up the brake line with some wire. It was going to be impossible to get the bent line through, so I jacked the car up as high as I could, and made the bends near the top of the line by the master cylinder. I then fed the line through the hole I made in the gas pedal bracket, then through the footbox, and out the bottom using the hole I had drilled. With the car jacked up, there was enough clearance to get the line through and bend it slightly as it hit the floor. Once it was far enough through, I put a real bend on the line to send it down the frame rail. Not the most precise and not the prettiest, but it got the job done. It was dinner time, so I quit for the day. I'll plan to come back and refine some of the bends and clamp it to the vertical 3/4" frame rail inside the pedal box, and to the frame rail under the car.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=201395&d=1720125918

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=201396&d=1720125918

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=201398&d=1720125918

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=201399&d=1720125939

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=201400&d=1720125939

sohcrates

01-12-2025, 04:29 PM

Finished running the brake lines today. Mostly went fine. Once I have checked for leaks and bled, I'll mount the lines to the frame.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=209012&d=1736716936

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=209013&d=1736716953

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=209014&d=1736716953

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=209010&d=1736716936

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=209011&d=1736716936

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=209015&d=1736716953

sohcrates

03-19-2025, 06:45 PM

I didn't like the way the left rear brake line looked, so I redid it. Maybe twice... Came out much better.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=211653&d=1742427271

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=211654&d=1742427271

I also installed the triple fluid reservoirs and plumbed them up. I was happy how that came out, although I may do a little polishing on that middle reservoir. It's gotten a little beat up with all the test fitting...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=211655&d=1742427271

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=211660&d=1742427284

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=211658&d=1742427284

Highplainsdakota

04-17-2025, 03:44 PM

Looks great. Do you know what size the AN fitting, 90 degree to hose barb is for the triple reservoir? Did Forte send that with the reservoir or did you source those? Thanks.

Blitzboy54

04-17-2025, 04:34 PM

Really like the reservoirs. Doing a great job, with both the build and the thread.

sohcrates

11-07-2025, 07:42 AM

Sorry Guys,

I didn't even see those replys. I had another of my family life enforced rythmyic hibernations in cobra building, and hopefully I'm awakening from it now. The encouragement and engagement go a long way. Thank you. As to the fittings, I did have to source those. I found them at a site called Racetronix in canada.

https://www.racetronix.biz/p/adapter-6-an-orb-male-to-4-an-jic-male-black/adf-495110

https://www.racetronix.biz/p/hose-fitting-push-lock-90-4-an-jic-female-black/fit-209004

The Wilwood reservoirs from Forte come with the fittings you can see in the top right of this picture. I wasn't nuts about how those barbs fit on the hoses.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=211655&d=1742427271

I'm sure this isn't very helpful 6 months after you asked the question, but there it is in case anyone else is wondering.

sohcrates

11-11-2025, 11:43 AM

I did manage to get a few hours in yesterday on the build. I started with polishing the scuffed up fluid reservoirs.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221373&d=1762878170

It occurred to me that I would probably need the smaller hole in the pedal box front for a wiring harness, so I moved all 3 hoses into the same hole, trimmed the hoses, and tightened everything up.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221374&d=1762878170

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221372&d=1762878170

I then ran around and tightened up all of the hard brake line fittings. It seemed like I needed every wrench in my toolbox to do this. 1/2, 7/16, 3/8, 3/4 for the fittings, then my Mustang rear brake bleeders were 9mm and the Wilwood fronts were 1/4. Gonna have to remember that when bleeding brakes in the future. I rigged up a piece of unused hard brake line and cut one end off to bench bleed the master cylinders. I really didn't want to take it all apart, and was worried about getting fluid everywhere if I actually did it on the bench, so I jacked up the front of the car until the pedal box was level and then screwed in my rigged up brake line and filled the reservoirs about 3/4 full. I just pumped the brake pedal until there was no air, repeating for both cylinders. Not too messy. Just a little bit of spill.

Bleeding was another matter. I had not tightened the right rear line enough, so it dripped a little, but the big problem was that I missed the union under the drivers seat, so there was a big puddle under there. I used some Prestone DOT4 and an Amazon pressure bleeder, which worked pretty well. It is pretty messy removing it from the reservoir, which ends up completely full when you are done. I just tried to be gentle screwing off the adapter, and then used a turkey baster type bulb to remove some. Is there a more scientific method for this?

The day had gotten long and I was starting to get some time pressure, so I quit for the day. The pedal was a little soft, so I think I'll go back and bleed both ends again. It should go easier and cleaner now that I've done it once. Now that my system looks leak free, I'll go around and install a bunch of cushion clamps to tighen all the lines down.

Mike.Bray

11-11-2025, 05:25 PM

FYI, you can pressure bleed with the unit dry and it works fine. You just have to make sure you don't push all of the fluid out of the reservoir and have to start over. My pressure bleeder has never had a drop of brake fluid in it, it's as clean as the day I bought it.

cv2065

11-11-2025, 08:27 PM

I bled each corner for a couple of minutes with the pneumatic bleeder from HF. I then use a small bottle and tube (gravity bled) for a quick moment to verify clear fluid with no bubbles. Keep the bleeder sucking as you pull it off the fitting with a small rag and it should not drip anywhere.

I didn't use any refill funnel at the top of the reservoir. I think that's just asking for a mess. Just keep an eye on the fluid level in the reservoir and don't run it dry. If the reservoir is full, with no leaks, you should be able to bleed one corner with maybe half of the reservoir's fluid or less.

Brake fluid is nasty stuff and will eat any coating it comes into contact with, so cover up your powder coated/painted areas. However, I will say that it does wonders for cleaning a dirty, epoxy based floor coating. :p

sohcrates

11-11-2025, 09:15 PM

Those are great tips guys. I had sort of wondered about running the bleeder with just air, but thought I wouldn't have enough fluid in the reservoir to fill the whole system. Now that its full, I think I'll try that next time I bleed them. The pedal was pretty stiff, but not quite rock hard, so I think I'll do it again at some point.

sohcrates

11-11-2025, 09:30 PM

Two days in a row working on the car. That's what happens when the wife is away on girls weekend! I started by bleeding the brakes again, and got quite a bit of air. It went a lot smoother and cleaner than the first time, and the pedal is getting pretty stiff. I'll probably bleed it once more at some point.

I then went on to secure the hard brake lines. I mostly finished the rear brake lines. It was a little tough working under the car, so I went slow. And the ones above the differential were really hard to get the drill and the riveter at, but I got it done. I still need to do a couple of clamps inside the footbox, but I ran out of time for the day. This project should wrap up next time I can work on the car. Then I think I will center the steering rack and look at the fuel tank/lines and drop trunk kit. I bought a single line kit from Breeze for my Holley Sniper, so there will just be the one line to run.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221396&d=1762913507

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221394&d=1762913507

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221395&d=1762913507

Mike.Bray

11-12-2025, 02:56 PM

I had sort of wondered about running the bleeder with just air, but thought I wouldn't have enough fluid in the reservoir to fill the whole system. N

Do this and you won't have an issue.

Bench bleed the MC

Gravity bleed the brakes for several hours making sure you keep the reservoirs topped up.

Dry pressure bleed the system.

Pat yourself on the back for job well done and without having to get your wife to help;)

sohcrates

01-12-2026, 09:44 AM

Well I got some time in on the build this weekend. Had a couple smaller chunks of time. I finished up putting clamps on all the brake lines, both inside the drivers footbox, next to the reservoirs, and along the front of the engine bay.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=223830&d=1768227250

I also centered up the steering rack using karlos' excellent guide. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?19175-Steering-Rack-Install-Setup-Procedure&p=215142&viewfull=1#post215142

I have the power steering rack, and it was mostly the same setup. I was very lucky. The rack appeared to be centered within about a milimeter with the steering wheel centered. I didn't bother aligning the front wheels yet since I don't even have tires and the tie rods will be adjusted when I do the alignment.

I then began working on the drop trunk box. I got the kit from Frank at i.e.427. I also bought his cancelling turn signal kit that I'll get to leter. I spent a while test fitting the box together and thinking about how to drill and rivet it, and then got cracking.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=223831&d=1768227250

After doing a bunch of drilling, I found a video on his youtube channel about installing it. I think I'll watch that before proceeding:p

sohcrates

01-19-2026, 09:01 AM

Well I watched Frank's video, and got some good info on what to expect and pitfalls to avoid. Would have been better to have watched it first, but no big deal. I had already drilled all the holes in the drop trunk, and had chosen to do 2 holes per corner support, where Frank did 3. I didn't want to drill a bunch more holes and have a lot of empty holes, and I think it'll be strong enough with 2 rivets per corner per side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=224287&d=1768829951

I test fit it, and found that, as Frank pointed out in his video, that fit might be an issue due to inconsistency with frame welding locations.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=224289&d=1768829951

I had to trim the cutout on the right side of the box, and I also had to do a bunch of trimming to make the back left corner fit without interference. I also had to grind down a weld on the passenger side rear of the trunk that was interfering with the box.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=224290&d=1768829951

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=224292&d=1768829967

After coming in and out about ten times, once I was happy, i riveted it all together. I riveted from the inside so the rivet heads are showing instead of the tails. A lot of people seem to do it from the outside because its easier, and it all gets carpeted over, but it seemed to me like it might be easier to carpet over the heads instead of the tails.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=224293&d=1768829967

Gladly, it still fit when I put it in the car. I drilled the holes in the frame, making sure to only drill where I could fit my riveter head.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=224294&d=1768829967

I haven't cut the hole in the trunk pan yet. I'm still deciding whether to cut it flush, or leave a lip on the forward part of it for carpeting sake, as suggested by Frank.