Ceramic coated header temp

[Fman]

Considering sending my headers in to Jet Hot to be coated to reduce engine compartment heat. I took a reading with my temp gun, they are at 425 degrees off the head at normal engine operating temp (190). Trying to find someone with Jet Hot coated headers to give me a temp reading off there headers. Definitely dont want to send them off if there will be little gain in heat reduction. Not a cheap investment, around $500 by the time you pay for shipping from CA to east coast.

If anyone has Cerakoted headers and would take a temp reading please post it up. Also considering doing there 1900 degree coating which can be done locally.

Thanks!😁

[Jim1855]

Different engines run at different temps. Where you measure will change the readings, a straight section will usually be cooler than a curved section. Measurement distance from the port will change things. Timing makes a big difference in temps. I don't think that a different install's reading will have significant bearing on what you'd see.

But if there were readings of before and after coating done in a logical and organized fashion those should provide a reasonable idea of what you'd see if using the same coating. Not all ceramic coatings are the same.

A friend that built headers and sidepipes, unfortunately passed away a year ago, always recommended ceramic coating both inside and out and this was on 304 SS. I have had coated headers in the past and will on the set I'll build for my current construction.

Jim

[GTBradley]

From my experience, how the temperature reading is taken makes a big difference too. The heat gun with laser pointer is notoriously inaccurate on shiny, reflective surfaces, so if using that tool on stainless steel or bright ceramic coatings you might be getting false, low readings. I would suggest using a temperature probe on those materials instead. It would help also to take readings in three locations - near the engine, midway and tail end of the header.

[rich grsc]

If you expect header coating to make a difference under the hood, you're in for a big disappointment. A block full of hot coolant, and a fan extracting heat from the radiator is what determines under hood temps.

[EZ$]

There are two companies in California, that I know of, that can do ceramic coatings for headers, etc. There used to be three, but one, Accessories Plus in Belmont, recently closed shortly after doing my J pipes and side pipes in ceramic. I've since found one in Concord, West Coast Specialty Coatings, and then there is Caps in Fresno. It should work out less expensive since you won't have to ship them as far.

[svassh]

Have you thought about header wrap? Would be a much cheaper alternative to start with.

[Fman]

Maybe I should clarify, I am not looking for exact temp reading. The thermal gun I have was reading 400-425 at header with a 427 at normal engine temp which is around 190. I figured if someone who has ceramic headers uses a thermal gun it should be considerably cooler. Jet Hot is claiming 65% reduction in temperature off the header which would equate to less heat near footbox and under the hood.


https://youtu.be/ofeqVhuEgu8

[Fman]

If you expect header coating to make a difference under the hood, you're in for a big disappointment. A block full of hot coolant, and a fan extracting heat from the radiator is what determines under hood temps.

What is your thought on that video? Do you have ceramic headers? Jet hot claims 65% reduction in heat from headers with lower engine compartment temperatures.

[TMartinLVNV]

What is your thought on that video? Do you have ceramic headers? Jet hot claims 65% reduction in heat from headers with lower engine compartment temperatures.

I don't have actual temps, just my anecdotal experience. I had a set of SLP headers on my 96 Impala SS that were Jet Hot coated inside and out. The stuff works. That engine bay had quite a few things that were close to the header pipes and I never had a problem with plastic melting or rubber cracking. I considered doing to the same with the roadster but did not because there was so much room around the headers and the lack of plastic and electrical stuff in the vicinity. I put heat resistant tape on the outside of my footboxes.

I like the look of the ceramic coating. It holds up well over the years. After a while, it will start to dull, but the heat resistant properties were still doing their thing.

[TMartinLVNV]

Also, should should be able to find a place locally to do the work. I had some exhaust pipes for my Jeep ceramic coated here in Las Vegas. The pipes from the cats down ran within a 1/2" of the Moroso oil pan that I installed on the 4.0.

It worked quite well. I'm not positive, but is Jet Hot a brand name for ceramic coating? They do colors now too :)

[Fman]

A couple places local to me will do Cerakote ceramic 1900 degree coating. Jet hot claims they have there own recipe that is not a Cerakote product and offer a lifetime guarantee. Truth be told my FFR stainless headers are already showing some rust on them, very disappointing they must have used a very low grade stainless on them. I'll be pulling them sometime this year and getting them ceramic coated just to eliminate the rusting.

I figured reducing some engine compartment heat would also be a bonus. Definitley want to make sure Cerakote 1900 is comparable to Jet Hot coating.

[mburger]

I had my headers coated at jet hot in North Carolina. I got their near chrome coating. When they first arrived I was very happy but it didn’t take long to be completely disappointed in them. The coating has turned gray and a bit of a rough texture. My temperature gun reads 350 degrees average at the heads. Jet-Hot says my exhaust temps must have reached 1,200 degrees. (Melting point of aluminum). And there is no way the headers reached those temps.
I also agree with Rich in that you won’t see your engine compartment temps drop. and I would advise against jet-hot.
EDIT: Read the “Lifetime Warranty” of Jet-Hot. When I called them, the FIRST thing they said was, well that’s a 347 stroker and that’s a big engine. I stopped her right there and asked if their coatings are used on 383s, 350s, 427s, etc... She says well yeah I see your point.
My point to you is, they will look to find a reason not to uphold the warranty. Don’t fall for their hype, like I did.
If you want them coated, and they will look nice, have it done as local as possible. Jet-Hot does not hold a magic ingredient for aluminum coating.

[mburger]

These are the headers as they came from Jet-Hot. I really liked them and JH.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148866&d=1622511841

These are the headers some time ago. They look worse now.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148868&d=1622511841

[nucjd19]

Fman thank you for starting this thread. I am learning quite a bit about the process of coating and folks experiences.

[Fman]

These are the headers as they came from Jet-Hot. I really liked them and JH.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148866&d=1622511841

These are the headers some time ago. They look worse now.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148868&d=1622511841

Wow, thanks for sharing your experience and being honest about it. I was suspicious of the special formula they claim to use over other competitors. I've heard good things about the Cerakote 1900 degree treatment. A local shop by my house will do it for $220 using Cerakote which is less than half of Jet Hot.

If anyone has used the Cerakote 1900 treatment please chime in.

[CobraboyDR]

We used Jet-Hot in all our engine installs, and found their performance and quality outstanding. Not cheap, but worth it.

[Hoooper]

My thought on that video is that you cant expect a reliable reading using an IR gun on a reflective surface. Ive never heard a bad thing said about jet hot or other ceramic coatings, but that video/ad is misleading.

I had ceramic done on my side pipes and headers at Sanderson headers. I dont have much time on them so my experience is only like 100 miles on them. The side pipes came out great, no issues there. The headers looked great, but after just the first drive it was clear the prep on the headers was spotty. Some small areas of the headers were already bubbling and flaking after the first drive. After a few more drives, no more flaking developed so it was just the spots they didnt get prepped right that are an issue.

[mburger]

We used Jet-Hot in all our engine installs, and found their performance and quality outstanding. Not cheap, but worth it.

Curious what you think of my before and after. Does it look like my 347 was pumping out 1,200 degrees over the entire length of the tubes or does it look like maybe another issue? I ask since you’ve seen many applications you might have some insight. The problem is, if I ship them back, it’s my expense BOTH ways with no guarantee they say oops, our bad. Also, it will be at least a month without them.
Pics don’t lie. I wasted a lot of money on these.

[RBachman]

The Cerakote Air-Cure "C-Series" is my favorite and works very well as long as the surface is properly prepared and the coatings are applied as directed. I like it better than powder coat. These coatings have a working temperature rating of up to 1,800 deg.F and Cerakote claims they can take an ice bath dunk at that temperature without failure. However, I would not put that much faith in heat reduction claims. As an engineer, knowing where JetHot got its numbers/testing criteria, and calculation methodology could put that claim in better perspective. Regardless, wrapping the headers will easily surpass any heat reduction capability of a ceramic coating.

[rich grsc]

Curious what you think of my before and after. Does it look like my 347 was pumping out 1,200 degrees over the entire length of the tubes or does it look like maybe another issue? I ask since you’ve seen many applications you might have some insight. The problem is, if I ship them back, it’s my expense BOTH ways with no guarantee they say oops, our bad. Also, it will be at least a month without them.
Pics don’t lie. I wasted a lot of money on these.

My thought is that at some point you were lean. Jet-Hot as a very good coating, but their bright shiny finish will not stay like that for ever. I had it on my old car side pipes, it never at any time looked like chrome or stainless steel. In fact I think is says on their site that the bright finish may discolor.

[CobraboyDR]

Curious what you think of my before and after. Does it look like my 347 was pumping out 1,200 degrees over the entire length of the tubes or does it look like maybe another issue? I ask since you’ve seen many applications you might have some insight. The problem is, if I ship them back, it’s my expense BOTH ways with no guarantee they say oops, our bad. Also, it will be at least a month without them.
Pics don’t lie. I wasted a lot of money on these.


My thought is that at some point you were lean. Jet-Hot as a very good coating, but their bright shiny finish will not stay like that for ever. I had it on my old car side pipes, it never at any time looked like chrome or stainless steel. In fact I think is says on their site that the bright finish may discolor.

MY experience is with 34 cars over a three-year period. All had Jet-Hot headers and side pipes.

I never saw or heard of any issues over time with Jet-Hot. I kept my personal sled for 10 years and never saw any significant discoloration or creeping rust. We used J-H exclusively

That said, regardless of the brand of ceramic coating or chrome plating, the single most important aspect of a long-lasting, quality ceramic or powder coating job is proper prep. J-H told me the main reason for their higher cost and lower "come-backs" is strict application of their prep work.

But that has been over 20 years ago. Things can change.

[GTBradley]

Wrapping I think is the easiest way to make sure that there is a heat reduction and there are the claims by many that this helps with power production. I've also read too much about the rap and what moisture can do to your headers. I'd like to believe in the heat reduction of the coatings, but I've never see scientific approaches in the testing. One of the more popular videos I've found is from hotrod.com (https://www.hotrod.com/articles/headers-dyno-test/) where they are dyno testing different header setups. I don't think they are trying to sell ceramic coatings, but the reduction in heat is huge and they are using an IR gun on a reflective header. I'm thinking they didn't even know the errors you get testing surface temps in that way.

148941

[CobraboyDR]

The Cerakote Air-Cure "C-Series" is my favorite and works very well as long as the surface is properly prepared and the coatings are applied as directed. I like it better than powder coat. These coatings have a working temperature rating of up to 1,800 deg.F and Cerakote claims they can take an ice bath dunk at that temperature without failure. However, I would not put that much faith in heat reduction claims. As an engineer, knowing where JetHot got its numbers/testing criteria, and calculation methodology could put that claim in better perspective. Regardless, wrapping the headers will easily surpass any heat reduction capability of a ceramic coating.There may be some heat reduction, but it will still be blazing hot. You WILL get snake bites if not careful. Been there.

That's why good airflow under the hood is important.

As a personal preference, I never thought header wrap looked good on a street sled, and it often hides creeping rust.

The easiest way to reduce underhood temps is with a small engine that doesn't put out much hrsprs. Fact is, hrsprs = heat. Not sure many will take that "advice" ;) .

The SPF cars I sold came with a simple heat shield maybe 1/2" off the footboxes that seemed to help reduce footbox temps. Between footbox heat/sound insulation and a fan-powered footbox vents, I suspect heat in that area can be effectively mitigated.

[CobraboyDR]

Wrapping I think is the easiest way to make sure that there is a heat reduction and there are the claims by many that this helps with power production. I've also read too much about the rap and what moisture can do to your headers. I'd like to believe in the heat reduction of the coatings, but I've never see scientific approaches in the testing. One of the more popular videos I've found is from hotrod.com (https://www.hotrod.com/articles/headers-dyno-test/) where they are dyno testing different header setups. I don't think they are trying to sell ceramic coatings, but the reduction in heat is huge and they are using an IR gun on a reflective header. I'm thinking they didn't even know the errors you get testing surface temps in that way.

148941I'm sure a serious racing geek can attest to power/heat ratios in header-wrapped/unwrapped motors where every frickin' hrsprs is worth spending $10,000. Must be nice. :)

But the reality is the Average Joe's butt dyno can't tell the difference.

[rich grsc]

How many topfuel dragsters have the headers wrapped?

[RBachman]

Absolutely agree. Mine has reflective insulation around the footwells and doesn't have a real heat problem so far. If it ever gets too uncomfortable, I'll likely add an additional heat shield as you mentioned...'not a big fan of the aesthetics of a wrap either.


There may be some heat reduction, but it will still be blazing hot. You WILL get snake bites if not careful. Been there.

That's why good airflow under the hood is important.

As a personal preference, I never thought header wrap looked good on a street sled, and it often hides creeping rust.

The easiest way to reduce underhood temps is with a small engine that doesn't put out much hrsprs. Fact is, hrsprs = heat. Not sure many will take that "advice" ;) .

The SPF cars I sold came with a simple heat shield maybe 1/2" off the footboxes that seemed to help reduce footbox temps. Between footbox heat/sound insulation and a fan-powered footbox vents, I suspect heat in that area can be effectively mitigated.

[mburger]

MY experience is with 34 cars over a three-year period. All had Jet-Hot headers and side pipes.

I never saw or heard of any issues over time with Jet-Hot. I kept my personal sled for 10 years and never saw any significant discoloration or creeping rust. We used J-H exclusively

That said, regardless of the brand of ceramic coating or chrome plating, the single most important aspect of a long-lasting, quality ceramic or powder coating job is proper prep. J-H told me the main reason for their higher cost and lower "come-backs" is strict application of their prep work.

But that has been over 20 years ago. Things can change.


Thank you both. I appreciate your insights. While I don't recall running that lean, it is possible and usually I was running rich, say the plugs. I guess I didn't believe my tubes were getting that hot. I'm still not there yet.
Jet-Hot said that they would re-coat the headers with a higher grade coating (higher melting point) for one half of the difference in price between the higher grade coating and the basic coating I have. The higher grade coating is only done at their Oklahoma location. So shipping both ways for OK becomes pretty costly. Add in not having them for so long, for me just isn't worth it. A warranty protects the company, not the customer, but what else is new?

[bobl]

I did a test on the dyno a few years ago. I was using FFR ceramic coated headers with plain steel side pipes painted with black header paint. So, I just carried the paint up onto the header pipes. Then measured with an IR gun and could read the coated and non coated pipes just inches apart. Unfortunately I wasn't trying to document, it was just a curiosity thing so I didn't write the numbers down. But, I do remember there was not much difference. I was expecting a big temp difference but there wasn't. Readings were in the 350-400 degree range and didn't change more than 20-30 degrees between coated and not. I know my headers will read in that range after idling a while. They are no longer shiny, just a dull silver/grey color. The IR gun reads them fine now.

[JohnK]

What I've concluded, not just from this thread but from many others I read when researching ceramic coatings in general and Jet Hot specifically, was that ceramic coating in general does reduce heat and is extremely durable, but shiny ceramic coatings specifically are not terribly durable on headers. Jet Hot offers three grades of ceramic coating. Only their lowest grade coating is offered in a "polished" finish. Folks that seem to have a problem with ceramic coatings invariably seem to have used a "polished" coating on headers. In my case it was an easy choice since my aesthetic is black side pipes - I went with their Ultra Extreme 2500 coating on the headers (in black) and their Extreme 1300 in satin black on the side pipes and heat shields. IMHO, I would not put their Extreme 1300 coating on headers and expect it to not discolor.

Edited to add: I haven't installed my engine yet, so I have no proof that anything I said is true, other than that the above seems to be the common theme that I've read on many auto and motorcycle forums regarding ceramic coatings.

[mburger]

What I've concluded, not just from this thread but from many others I read when researching ceramic coatings in general and Jet Hot specifically, was that ceramic coating in general does reduce heat and is extremely durable, but shiny ceramic coatings specifically are not terribly durable on headers. Jet Hot offers three grades of ceramic coating. Only their lowest grade coating is offered in a "polished" finish. Folks that seem to have a problem with ceramic coatings invariably seem to have used a "polished" coating on headers. In my case it was an easy choice since my aesthetic is black side pipes - I went with their Ultra Extreme 2500 coating on the headers (in black) and their Extreme 1300 in satin black on the side pipes and heat shields. IMHO, I would not put their Extreme 1300 coating on headers and expect it to not discolor.

Edited to add: I haven't installed my engine yet, so I have no proof that anything I said is true, other than that the above seems to be the common theme that I've read on many auto and motorcycle forums regarding ceramic coatings.


Assuming everything you said is accurate, I’m ok with that, unfortunately, Jet-Hot intentionally leads you to believe otherwise, so at least for this one customer, my expectations were set unrealistically high.

[Fman]

425 down to 350 I do not think would do much for engine compartment heat reduction. Thanks to everyone adding to this thread and really interesting to hear different results with Jet Hot.

[rich grsc]

The under hood heat comes from the engine, not the headers

[GTBradley]

Which leads me back to the original discussion we had about reducing the heat getting into the fresh air vent hoses. I think the answer there is to wrap the hoses with some sort of insulation where it travels through the engine compartment. Definitely cheaper and easier to do...

[Rdone585]

So if your goal is to reduce engine compartment heat... you could consider vents in the hood. Not something you might consider in a finished car, but I was in the process of a full repaint, so I went for it. I understand that it's not for everyone, but I was working on reducing engine compartment heat (mainly for track events).
149198

[rich grsc]

Guys, how hot do you think it is under the hood when you're driving the car? Do you know? Give me your best W A G if you don't

[Fman]

So if your goal is to reduce engine compartment heat... you could consider vents in the hood. Not something you might consider in a finished car, but I was in the process of a full repaint, so I went for it. I understand that it's not for everyone, but I was working on reducing engine compartment heat (mainly for track events).
149198

Honestly would never even consider adding vents in the hood, although sounds like it definitely helps.

I just recently installed 4" blowers on each side under the fenders, not very noticeable and they are working great. They blow all the hot air out of the engine compartment through the side vents. Install was pretty easy and they only draw 6 amps, 270 CFM each and are quiet enough to not hear them when engine is running. Have them on an extra toggle I had on my vintage bezel, prob won't use it in the winter driving months but nice to have right now with summer approaching. I used them last weekend and was pleased how they worked.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149212&d=1623122293
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149213&d=1623122839

[mburger]

Guys, how hot do you think it is under the hood when you're driving the car? Do you know? Give me your best W A G if you don't

My air temperature sensor for my EFI system shows around 130.
That’s at the TB

[CobraboyDR]

So if your goal is to reduce engine compartment heat... you could consider vents in the hood. Not something you might consider in a finished car, but I was in the process of a full repaint, so I went for it. I understand that it's not for everyone, but I was working on reducing engine compartment heat (mainly for track events).
149198Isn't that what the side vents are for?

[Jim1855]

Maybe, but I never noticed much from the side vents.

In a past life, with a different car, we'd lift the hood on the locks (SPF) and create a 3/8" gap at the back of the hood. Made a huge difference.

All the heat collects at the hood, heat rises, and the hood scoop is just a vent. I've never noticed that it collected much air. Doesn't collect many bugs or much water either.

Jim

[Fman]

My side vents did not seem to do much of anything, however with the blowers now you feel hot air blowing out. Substantial difference now.

[Hoooper]

Side vents of course are for relieving underhood pressure, which means they work when the car is moving but not really when stopped. Hood vents work much better at a stop and low speeds than side louvers would because they will encourage heat to rise straight through the opening rather than having to fall and mix to get out the louvers or just the bottom of the car. The scoop works the opposite of a side louver when not sealed to an intake, it works to increase underhood pressure and stall the air trying to come through the radiator.

[toadster]

Isn't that what the side vents are for?

hot air rises, plus it gives another path for underhood air pressure to force more hot air out at speed

[CobraboyDR]

hot air rises, plus it gives another path for underhood air pressure to force more hot air out at speedAt stop, but not necessarily while moving. Even at stop, if the fan is on, the air moves around.

Is the temp under the hood really that big of a problem?

[nucjd19]

Honestly would never even consider adding vents in the hood, although sounds like it definitely helps.

I just recently installed 4" blowers on each side under the fenders, not very noticeable and they are working great. They blow all the hot air out of the engine compartment through the side vents. Install was pretty easy and they only draw 6 amps, 270 CFM each and are quiet enough to not hear them when engine is running. Have them on an extra toggle I had on my vintage bezel, prob won't use it in the winter driving months but nice to have right now with summer approaching. I used them last weekend and was pleased how they worked.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149212&d=1623122293
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149213&d=1623122839

Fman. That is pretty slick!

[rich grsc]

At stop, but not necessarily while moving. Even at stop, if the fan is on, the air moves around.

Is the temp under the hood really that big of a problem?
No it's not at all. There is more open space, and air movement in these cars than a factory built daily driver. Who sets and worries about how hot the engine compartment is on their daily driver? NO ONE! Most have no idea on how hot new car engines runs.
I asked if anyone knew how hot it really got, one reply. I have EFI so I have an intake air temp sensor mounted in the middle of my stack system. I can see this on my hand held monitor, it consistently shows about 10-15* above ambient air temp when driving, rising maybe another 10-15* when stopped in traffic. I was out Tuesday, 79*, under hood it was 93*. All these extra mods and worries don't really make any difference to the life of engine, the interior of the engine and oil is WAY hotter the air around it. Why everybody thinks these cars need be treated so much differently than a factory built is beyond me.

[GTBradley]

Well, there ya have it. I'm definitely not spending any money on treating my headers if there is no significant temperature drop and I'm not about to wrap them either, even if there is some small HP to be gained. Personally, I'm really only hoping to lower the temps on my fresh air vent tubes where they pass near the headers. I think finding a way to isolate them from the general heat of the engine compartment is the better way to do it.

[rich grsc]

Well, there ya have it. I'm definitely not spending any money on treating my headers if there is no significant temperature drop and I'm not about to wrap them either, even if there is some small HP to be gained. Personally, I'm really only hoping to lower the temps on my fresh air vent tubes where they pass near the headers. I think finding a way to isolate them from the general heat of the engine compartment is the better way to do it.
I agree, you are passing air in a tube through a hot envelope. Trying to insulate the tube might be the best.

[JohnK]

I guess it depends on what you're trying to accomplish. I agree that ambient temps in the engine bay are fine and there's no need to worry about that for the sake of engine life or HP. However, the headers pass very close to the footboxes in a few areas. These builds are not really like daily drivers, which have thicker steel panels and hundreds of pounds of insulation around the cabin. Even with some sort of heat insulation on the inside of the footboxes, headers will likely still pass heat into the footboxes, so IMO some sort of heat shielding in the areas where the headers are close to the sheetmetal will provide benefit in reducing footbox heat.

[Hoooper]

Well, there ya have it. I'm definitely not spending any money on treating my headers if there is no significant temperature drop and I'm not about to wrap them either, even if there is some small HP to be gained. Personally, I'm really only hoping to lower the temps on my fresh air vent tubes where they pass near the headers. I think finding a way to isolate them from the general heat of the engine compartment is the better way to do it.

Are you still using that clear plastic PVC tubing? I would think a quality silicone brake duct would fare better. The ducting I used on mine seems pretty cool when sitting still and fans on, it is an orange double layer silicone brake duct but there are also options for heat reflective which might be best for what youre looking for (though not cheap) https://www.summitracing.com/parts/kys-100-485

[GTBradley]

Are you still using that clear plastic PVC tubing? I would think a quality silicone brake duct would fare better. The ducting I used on mine seems pretty cool when sitting still and fans on, it is an orange double layer silicone brake duct but there are also options for heat reflective which might be best for what youre looking for (though not cheap) https://www.summitracing.com/parts/kys-100-485
Yeah, I found that product on Amazon and was drawn in by the price and high heat resistance. It is a good solution, but they are single layer. It is the stoplight, fan on condition that is the problem, not the moving, fan off condition. It would be PAR for the course for me to spend more money in an attempt to save money. Maybe if they have a four inch tube in the double layer stuff, I could slip that over the existing three inch tube just in the engine bay.

Or this stuff from HD:

149277 It's not pretty, but the reflective foil would work well and it sticks on, plus it's cheap.

[CobraboyDR]

Well, there ya have it. I'm definitely not spending any money on treating my headers if there is no significant temperature drop and I'm not about to wrap them either, even if there is some small HP to be gained. Personally, I'm really only hoping to lower the temps on my fresh air vent tubes where they pass near the headers. I think finding a way to isolate them from the general heat of the engine compartment is the better way to do it.Ceramic, especially shiny silver, is awesome when the hood is popped at the Burger Doodle on Saturday nite.

That counts for something... ;)

[CobraboyDR]

I guess it depends on what you're trying to accomplish. I agree that ambient temps in the engine bay are fine and there's no need to worry about that for the sake of engine life or HP. However, the headers pass very close to the footboxes in a few areas. These builds are not really like daily drivers, which have thicker steel panels and hundreds of pounds of insulation around the cabin. Even with some sort of heat insulation on the inside of the footboxes, headers will likely still pass heat into the footboxes, so IMO some sort of heat shielding in the areas where the headers are close to the sheetmetal will provide benefit in reducing footbox heat.A stand-off heat panel with a .25-.5" air gap from the footbox is all you really need, even if then, and heat footbox insulation is all really and truly is "necessary.

I do like the forced blown air to the footboxes.

[Hoooper]

Yeah, I found that product on Amazon and was drawn in by the price and high heat resistance. It is a good solution, but they are single layer. It is the stoplight, fan on condition that is the problem, not the moving, fan off condition. It would be PAR for the course for me to spend more money in an attempt to save money. Maybe if they have a four inch tube in the double layer stuff, I could slip that over the existing three inch tube just in the engine bay.

There are 4" options just not heat reflective. You could also try wrapping yours with a quality foil backed tape like real duct tape, but of course youd have to make sure the adhesive will survive a couple hundred degrees without melting off.

https://www.summitracing.com/search?N=part-type%3Abrake-cooling-ducts_brake-cooling-duct-hose%2Bbrake-cooling-duct-hose-diameter%3A4-000-in&SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=brake%20duct

[Ducky2009]

I didn't coat my headers. But I did add the air dam over the radiator, before I installed the insulation between the engine compartment and cockpit. While driving, the hot air from the engine compartment was coming into the cockpit and was extremely hot. I removed the air dam, allowing more air to flow over the radiator and out the side vents (or under the car) and the temp dropped significantly. The engine temp gauge did not increase.

[Fman]

I also have the 3" footbox vents and IMO up to this point it has been a complete waist of time installing them. They blow warm/hot-ish air at you. I've tried using insulated 3" tubing and it got better but still not great. I'm going to track my under hood temp this week with my PF4 and see how much air temp drops with the 4" vent blowers running. Those blowers are moving quite a bit of air through the engine compartment which has definitely helped drop footbox and cockpit heat. Airflow always seems to help dissipate heat.

[toadster]

this would be 'ideal' but the price... :o

https://www.ducting.com/hose-types/insulated-hose

thinking out loud, you could put the 3" hose on the air pumps, and then a 4" hose overtop the 3" hose which would give a 1/2" air-gap insulation around the inner hose... probably overengineered though :)

[Hoooper]

If you werent concerned about appearance you could grab some 4" aluminum dryer exhaust duct from home depot for a few bucks and that would provide the air space and the heat reflective surface

[GTBradley]

There are 4" options just not heat reflective. You could also try wrapping yours with a quality foil backed tape like real duct tape, but of course youd have to make sure the adhesive will survive a couple hundred degrees without melting off.

https://www.summitracing.com/search?N=part-type%3Abrake-cooling-ducts_brake-cooling-duct-hose%2Bbrake-cooling-duct-hose-diameter%3A4-000-in&SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=brake%20duct

As Rich was saying, I don't think it's getting more than maybe 120˚ in that area. I think I'm going to get a roll of the Frost King insulated 2" tape from HD and see what happens. At 6 bucks it's worth a try.

I like your fans Fman, I just don't want to add any more to my car than I need too. I'll be interested in what your temperature tracking turns up though. If you don't mind record your vent temps in the car while at idle - both with eng bay fans on and off.

I did find a major advantage to having the vents on my trips through the rain. There isn't much airflow with the top on and side windows in and the air vents made a big difference while it was raining and warm outside.

BTW, I'm wondering if you insulated all the way to the brake duct openings where the vent tube attaches. I think the radiator is probably supplying plenty hot air to the fender wells too, at least while sitting still.

[Fman]

Amazing drive this evening, weather for June was about perfect 75 with a nice breeze. What a gift because next week is looking hot.

I gathered some data using my PF4 tablet. The PF4 air temp sensor is located inside the air filter.

Outside air temp 75 degrees

Driving (45 mph) air engine compartment temp read 104 degrees, 4" blowers had no affect on dropping engine air temp while car was moving at 45 mph.
Hottest idling engine compartment air temp read 151 with 189 degree engine temp
4" blowers dropped temp when idling from 151 to 136.

Blowers dropped engine compartment air temp 15 degrees at idle

[mburger]

What was your comfort level in the foot box area post bilge fan install?
For me, I found the biggest relief was to prevent hot air from entering the foot box and cabin. I bought “R-7 Small Project Unfaced Fiberglass Insulation Roll 16 in. x 4 ft.”
by Johns Manville at Lowe’s for $6 and stuffed it in towards the dash from the engine bay where some people place a pool noodle. Getting a yardstick and stuffing it in there all but stopped air flow into the cabin.
In the end, I’m driving around on public roads in a race car so it is what it is.

[Fman]

What was your comfort level in the foot box area post bilge fan install?
For me, I found the biggest relief was to prevent hot air from entering the foot box and cabin. I bought “R-7 Small Project Unfaced Fiberglass Insulation Roll 16 in. x 4 ft.”
by Johns Manville at Lowe’s for $6 and stuffed it in towards the dash from the engine bay where some people place a pool noodle. Getting a yardstick and stuffing it in there all but stopped air flow into the cabin.
In the end, I’m driving around on public roads in a race car so it is what it is.

Same, stuffed 2" AC foam in the gaps that reduced large majority of the heat coming in the side door/cockpit area. It is definitely tolerable now but I like tinkering and trying to improve stuff.

[BB767]

Well, there ya have it. I'm definitely not spending any money on treating my headers if there is no significant temperature drop and I'm not about to wrap them either, even if there is some small HP to be gained. Personally, I'm really only hoping to lower the temps on my fresh air vent tubes where they pass near the headers. I think finding a way to isolate them from the general heat of the engine compartment is the better way to do it.

As an alternative for any new builders reading this, I simply mounted a marine bilge fan directly under the steering column in the footwell. No ducting involved. It simply moves a lot of ambient air in and out of the foot box. Blows directly on the pedals (where your feet are most of the time). Can only be seen hanging down if your head is seat back height or lower. Is very quiet and can’t be heard at all with the engine running. Very low power draw through a switch on the panel. Quick, easy, cheap, and effective.

[KegMechanic]

For the past 2 years I was running ceramic coated mustang headers, with heat tape wrapped J-pipes. I just swapped that setup with the FFR stainless headers. I don't have any numbers, but the engine compartment is now significantly hotter. With the old setup, it was just warm when I opened the hood. Now it is very hot.

But, I am very happy with the new headers. The adjustability of the side pipes position is excellent, and I was able to eliminate the remote oil filter setup.

[mburger]

Same, stuffed 2" AC foam in the gaps that reduced large majority of the heat coming in the side door/cockpit area. It is definitely tolerable now but I like tinkering and trying to improve stuff.

Yes! Me too! Not good on my bank account but I do like to tinker.

[ggunter]

Very interesting article. I'm kind of disenchanted with he FFR stainless headers starting to spot which can be rubbed or buffed out but doing that all the time sucks. I only have 200 miles on the car and I know in a year they will look horrible. When I bought the polished stainless headers, I asked Tony if they would stay that way and he said " Oh Yes". From all the vendors who ceramic coat headers, are there any that will keep a good appearance over a year or so? I called GasN about stainless headers and he told me his will turn as well. At least he was honest about it. Fman's looked great when new, but now they look like burned silver paint, no wonder he's upset. If anyone has had good luck with coated silver headers I would love to know and see a pic of them.

[Chilly]

Do you have a link for the blowers. Would like to look into adding them to my build.

[CobraboyDR]

Keep in mind the non-silver coatings also discolor.

You just can't see it as readily as a lighter color.

[Norm B]

My silver powder coated headers have turned a matte grey colour starting a couple inches from the heads and extending about a foot down the pipe. The hottest area on the header is about 4 inches from the head. I blame my camshaft choice for this. I am running an old school flat tappet camshaft with significant overlap between the intake valve opening and the exhaust valve closing. At certain rpms this will be throwing unburnt fuel and air down the pipe. Not much I can do about that or the resulting heat in the engine compartment. When the rad fan is running the side louvres do an excellent job of venting that.

I wrapped my corrugated vent tubing with “Easy Cool” insulation and used reflective HVAC tape to secure it. The incoming air is as cool as I would expect it to be considering the inlets on the nose are only about a foot off the hot pavement.

Maybe we should start a petition to get cooling tubes installed in the road ways. Would combat global warming and make our drives more comfortable ;)

Norm

[GTBradley]

Fman, I think you asked me to check header temps a while back, I only have an IR tool and the temps I measured were way low, so no help for you there.

I totally did an about-face on the header wrap. I evolved on this based on the knowledge that the SS long tube headers I have are less susceptible to corrosion. I also, wrapped the vent tubes with the insulating material I mentioned and then wrapped that with the reflective tape. This gave the vent tube the look of a NASA space probe part, but doesn't look too bad. A side benefit was the tube became ridged enough that it no longer needs to be supported by zip ties.

On both headers I used some high temp header wrap that has a gold, carbon fiber color, which is similar to what the current color of the headers are anyway. This was easy to do and the temp on my vents dropped at least 10˚F, though the outside air was a couple of degrees cooler than the previous measurement. The vent air is still higher than ambient, but much better. The temp on the square tube near the header has dropped also, which I like for the reason that my brake line is there. I know DOT 4 has a very high boiling temp, but I feel better knowing it isn't running at 220˚ in that area.

149786 149785

The other concern I had was the Coyote wire loom running near the right side header. It’s condition after 6000+ miles is fine, but 220 degrees seems like it might not be after 50,000 miles.

right side 149787 , left side149788

[toadster]

Do you have a link for the blowers. Would like to look into adding them to my build.


3" for running air to the footboxes https://amzn.to/3qjtRoW
4" for blowing air out of the engine bay https://amzn.to/3xAuEEq

[Fman]

Fman, I think you asked me to check header temps a while back, I only have an IR tool and the temps I measured were way low, so no help for you there.

I totally did an about-face on the header wrap. I evolved on this based on the knowledge that the SS long tube headers I have are less susceptible to corrosion. I also, wrapped the vent tubes with the insulating material I mentioned and then wrapped that with the reflective tape. This gave the vent tube the look of a NASA space probe part, but doesn't look too bad. A side benefit was the tube became ridged enough that it no longer needs to be supported by zip ties.

On both headers I used some high temp header wrap that has a gold, carbon fiber color, which is similar to what the current color of the headers are anyway. This was easy to do and the temp on my vents dropped at least 10˚F, though the outside air was a couple of degrees cooler than the previous measurement. The vent air is still higher than ambient, but much better. The temp on the square tube near the header has dropped also, which I like for the reason that my brake line is there. I know DOT 4 has a very high boiling temp, but I feel better knowing it isn't running at 220˚ in that area.

149786 149785

The other concern I had was the Coyote wire loom running near the right side header. It’s condition after 6000+ miles is fine, but 220 degrees seems like it might not be after 50,000 miles.

right side 149787 , left side149788

I have been told by a few different reputable engine builders wrap is the best way to cut down on heat. I don't think you will have any issues with stainless and corrosion. Thanks for posting up this info. I just went out for a drive this evening and I still feel like I can reduce the footbox heat down even further. Will be working on some more modifications to help.

[GTBradley]

The simple fact is, running through the engine bay will always cause an increase in the air temp, even in an insulated conduit. I’ve often complained that modern cars don’t get fresh air like old cars did. The old ones used direct venting from side louvers or a vent coming from the body just in front of the windscreen and did not run that air over the heater core. Or, they did run it over the heater core, but you could shut off the coolant flow completely. I think that might be the reason heater cores used to rust and fail though.

[Bob 5.0]

Fman
I have ceracoated headers on my 347 stroke motor! I'll take a temp reading for you later today and let you know! I'll take it off #1 cylinder. It just amazes me how much crap people will give you on just a simple request !!!!

[Bob 5.0]

Jim
I have ceracoat on my headers ! At operating temp #1 cylinder. Is running 520 degrees
Hope this helps

[Jim1855]

Bob,

Not to intrude on the conversation but it looks like you measured about an inch from the head on a straight length of the header. As explained to me, by people way more experienced in these things, that straight length benefits from the water cooling in the head and the straight path.

My experience is that is a cooler spot. If you measure at the bend I believe that the temps will be significantly hotter. Might also be good to measure additional cylinders at similar spots and record the temps. I think you'll find additional heat and a fair variation between the pipes. But that's just my experience.

a different Jim