Hawk Rear Brake Pads

[JIMOCO]

Happy Memorial Day to All. i purchased a set of Hawk HPS pads for front and rear. (Front fit perfectly) Since I purchased the 11.65" rear brake set from FFR, I contacted them to make sure I got the correct pads. They told me to order pads for a 87-88 Thunderbird. I did that and purchased HB580F.627 pads on Amazon. When you search for these pads using the 87-88 T-bird, the Hawk site even reads FFR rear. Tried to install yesterday and they are not the same pads. The pads on my roadster are about 1 inch shorter in length than the HPS pads. Does anyone have any thoughts why they do not match and suggestions as to the correct pads?

[nuhale]

I had same issue and also ordered the wrong pads. The correct ones should be HB183F.585

I have 2010 MKIV with pre 2015 IRS. I’m guessing you should have the same. Just a tip the rears were pretty tight. I installed them without the metal shim.

[AdamIsAdam]

OMG, how freaking weird, I had the same thing happen to me yesterday! The pads are from 89-94 Mustang and mine arrive tomorrow, so I'll report back if these don't fit: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CO66HA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_9X6Q19Y2VC00CTRE01ZQ?_ encoding=UTF8&psc=1

EDIT: ADDING CORRECT PRODUCT LINK: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000COAZE0?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

[AC Bill]

Were they specified as to fitting the T-Bird Turbo-coupe rear calipers? That may be why you were getting the wrong ones. There were a few different models of T-bird. 3.8 litre, 5 litre, and the 2.3 litre Turbo-coupe. Which model does FFR provide calipers from?

https://www.automobile-catalog.com/model/ford_usa/thunderbird_9gen.html

[nuhale]

Also.. make sure you order the .585 ones. That suffix is pad thickness. Hawk offers a .660 and will not fit. Ask me how I know.... :mad:

I ended up with 3 sets of pads for the rear before I got it right. They are pretty dead on at .585 and I couldn't get them to fit with the metal shims. Had to pop them off...

Get them on Amazon. Best price around and good return policy! :)

[nuhale]

OMG, how freaking weird, I had the same thing happen to me yesterday! The pads are from 89-94 Mustang and mine arrive tomorrow, so I'll report back if these don't fit: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CO66HA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_9X6Q19Y2VC00CTRE01ZQ?_ encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Just clicked on your link... They will not fit at the .660! You need the .585" (HB183F.585)

[AdamIsAdam]

OMG! You made my heart sink! But I just double checked my Amazon order history and guess what's arriving today: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000COAZE0?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

Yup! I ordered the right pad. I just grabbed the wrong link above!

WHEW!

Thanks for the info. I hope they get here with enough time for me to install and bed them in before our afternoon BBQ and boat ride at a friend's house otherwise I'll have to blow off the BBQ! Priorities! LOL

EDIT: Here's a pic of the pad that is currently in my car. Can anyone make out which pad this is? I see it's the HP Plus. It sheds a LOT of dust. I suspect it was working overtime because of the contamination on my front pads. See pics.

148800

148801

148802

148803

[AdamIsAdam]

ok, NOW we're in business!

148808

[JIMOCO]

Now those look like my rear pads. Thanks AdamisAdams and to all for posting your thoughts. Placing my order now.

[AdamIsAdam]

Also.. make sure you order the .585 ones. That suffix is pad thickness. Hawk offers a .660 and will not fit. Ask me how I know.... :mad:

I ended up with 3 sets of pads for the rear before I got it right. They are pretty dead on at .585 and I couldn't get them to fit with the metal shims. Had to pop them off...

Get them on Amazon. Best price around and good return policy! :)

@nuhale How the heck did you get the new pads to fit? I removed the shims and can barely get started sliding the caliper over the pads. I'm worried about forcing it for fear of damaging the piston, or getting it installed but the brakes are on full lock. There's no play in there at all and I've compressed the piston all the way in.

I have grease on the piston face surface but that's not helping. It almost looks like if I can get over the spring rivet that will help but I'm afraid to mash it.

Help! 148811

148812

[AdamIsAdam]

Oh and both shims are removed ready.

[rich grsc]

You don't have the piston turned in far enough. They have to be screwed in.

[Rdone585]

There is a special tool that helps turn the caliper piston in when the pads are too tight on the rotor.
I use one like this with a 3/8" ratchet and extension. I found a pic on amazon (search for caliper piston tool).
148822
But you can also get a specialized set of tools for the purpose if you want.

[AdamIsAdam]

I put the old pads back. Here are the measurements of the new vs old pads. Can I safely shave the pads down?

148823

148824

[AdamIsAdam]

WAIT, the piston SCREWS IN?! Since when?

I'll give it a try later. But let me ask:
1) does it turn in normally, as in right handed threads?
2) How can I do this without that rubik's cube thing? Or can I buy that thing? Got a link or name for it?

It's funny, cause I thought it looked like it should be able to compress further. I was using a c-clamp. oops! lol

THESE?
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/lisle-disc-brake-piston-tool-28600/25961363-p?product_channel=local&store=4495&adtype=pla&product_channel=local&store_code=4495&gclid=Cj0KCQjwktKFBhCkARIsAJeDT0gyJKNuHfEmRYq8_ky6 fe5O_MYZm4wLS83RvjiBOtSaEn6ZYcrGLdEaArTFEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

or

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/performance-tool-2-pin-brake-caliper-tool-w80627/11942103-p?product_channel=local&store=4495&adtype=pla&product_channel=local&store_code=4495&gclid=Cj0KCQjwktKFBhCkARIsAJeDT0iuAkBPJt_7Qr2_49B7 ndx9g-0NZdNXB45otRxTJoi-IpCJ8oAbYMoaApdVEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

[nuhale]

Not sure... put a caliper on the brake pads and measure to make sure you have .585... who knows, maybe wrong size. Worth a measure.

I have never used one of those adjusters. Sorry! Good luck!

[rich grsc]

Rear calipers with parking brakes have ALWAYS needed to be turned in to retract. :eek:

[AdamIsAdam]

ok, I picked up the Rubic's Cube. I've got to head out to a BBQ now, but I'll play with this when I get home tonight.

Does the piston turn in clockwise or counter-clockwise?

[AdamIsAdam]

ok, NOW I'm pissed! I put the right side together without a problem. I swapped left side pads but for the LIFE of me I cannot get the caliper installed because I cannot get both top and bottom bolt holes to line up if the pads are installed. It seemed as if the parking brake assembly was in the way so I disconnected it. Not the problem. Then I removed both pads and it fits. So I added the inboard pad and it fits. I added the outboard pad and the caliper won't sit flush. So I swapped pads even thought all 4 pads seem identical. No good. I removed the pad shims but that's not it. WTF is going on here! Are the 4 pads the same? They seem to be seated properly but clearly something is preventing me from being able to line up and thread the caliper bolts. I'm beyond frustrated. 10 minutes to swap pads and over an hour now just getting the left caliper to line up without success. I'm going to bed. Tomorrow someone will sprinkle magic forum dust on it and it'll go right in. Right?

148875

[nuhale]

Never heard of such a tool... ordered the cube as well. This would explain why I couldn't get the piston to fully retract with the compression tool.... Learned something new.

Adam, hope you get this figured out. Please report the trick once you get it sorted... :)

[rich grsc]

Lets hope you didn't damage the parking brake mechanism try to force it with a compression tool.
You can just go to most any auto parts store and get a free 'lone a tool' brake caliper tool set.

[AdamIsAdam]

I was using a c-clamp on the passenger side. I didn't go crazy on it. When I bought the correct tool, I was able to complete that side in 10 minutes and it's fully buttoned up. It's the drivers side that is not going back together properly, so this is not a damage issue.

All 4 pads should be identical, right?

I may move the pads from the passenger side and install them on the drivers side just to see if there's an issue with the pads. I'll also take measurements of all 4 pads. Maybe a fresh look at things. I'll check, AGAIN, to make sure the pads are fully seated.

Question: now that I have the parking brake cable spring removed and cable off, I want to know if that should be assembled before installing the caliper under normal conditions or should I assemble the cable first? My cable is a pretty tight fit in there, which is why I thought it was causing resistance.

EDIT: @nuhale this is how you screw in the piston https://youtu.be/0Zio1JKargA?t=389

[nuhale]

Lets hope you didn't damage the parking brake mechanism try to force it with a compression tool.
You can just go to most any auto parts store and get a free 'lone a tool' brake caliper tool set.

$8 on amazon.... another tool in the box. The e-brake working just fine so it should be good.

[Blitzboy54]

I have this kit. It works first time every time and works with just about every type of caliper arrangement.

https://www.harborfreight.com/disc-brake-pad-and-caliper-service-tool-kit-11-pc-63264.html ** Edit, don't buy this**

Never mind. The HF kit has changed since I purchased it 10 years ago. This one is the equivalent kit. You need two different presses for both CW and CCW

https://www.amazon.com/8MILELAKE-Brake-Caliper-Wind-Professional/dp/B0122Q83T4/ref=asc_df_B0122Q83T4/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198151843411&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7967597214303037651&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028318&hvtargid=pla-381147635937&psc=1

[AdamIsAdam]

Ya know, this guy did a nice job explaining the process of pushing the piston back in. He refers to aligning the piston notches with the tabs on the pads. I didn't check that. Perhaps that's my problem.

https://youtu.be/m5MxG1m7X5U?t=657

[AdamIsAdam]

Ya know, this guy did a nice job explaining the process of pushing the piston back in. He refers to aligning the piston notches with the tabs on the pads. I didn't check that. Perhaps that's my problem.

https://youtu.be/m5MxG1m7X5U?t=657

BINGO! It was the notches mentioned in the video!!!!! I guess I got lucky on the other side since I didn't pay attention to them.

I'm still working from home these days so I just popped into the garage during lunch and installed the caliper in 2 minutes. I put the parking brake assembly back together (needed to remove the caliper to get the cable into the hole on my car due to clearance, so I removed and reinstalled the bolts again without problem) and buttoned it all up. So simple!

Pedal feels good. I'll take it for a ride later to test it all out and bed the brakes in.

Sorry for any wasted time but thanks for the replies. Now I (we?) know that the piston slots need to align with the tabs on the pads in order for everything to fit properly.

[egchewy79]

thanks for posting this thread! I watched the youtube video and realized that I never installed the shims that go between the rear pads and the caliper bracket nor the top shim that the metal springs ride on at the top of the caliper. I wasn't sure what those extra pieces did and the "directions" in the "manual" do not mention them at all. Upon further inspection of my extra parts box, the shims are a bit different than those shown in the video that clip on either end of the pad. My shims straddle the rotor and the pads hold them in place with tension. The top shim that contacts the spring wires on the pads doesn't seem to fit my caliper. I'm guessing that they might be for a different caliper and I need to find the correct shims for a 87-88 tbird turbo coupe. I also need to get one of those rubix cube piston tools to line up my piston groove to the nob on the pad. If the piston rotates over time w/ the parking brake and the nob on the brake pad doesn't move, how does the piston continue to rotate over time?

[egchewy79]

do the pads come w/ the appropriate clips/shims that go on the end and on the top of the pads? and if not, does anyone have the part number?
all the hardware kits I see only have the end clips/shims and no top piece that rides against the springs.
PN #5574-09022900

[Blitzboy54]

thanks for posting this thread! I watched the youtube video and realized that I never installed the shims that go between the rear pads and the caliper bracket nor the top shim that the metal springs ride on at the top of the caliper. I wasn't sure what those extra pieces did and the "directions" in the "manual" do not mention them at all. Upon further inspection of my extra parts box, the shims are a bit different than those shown in the video that clip on either end of the pad. My shims straddle the rotor and the pads hold them in place with tension. The top shim that contacts the spring wires on the pads doesn't seem to fit my caliper. I'm guessing that they might be for a different caliper and I need to find the correct shims for a 87-88 tbird turbo coupe. I also need to get one of those rubix cube piston tools to line up my piston groove to the nob on the pad. If the piston rotates over time w/ the parking brake and the nob on the brake pad doesn't move, how does the piston continue to rotate over time?

When you have a piston that is both brake and the parking/e-brake they have to actuate with separate mechanisms. The entire point of an e-brake is that it works when your regular brakes don’t. So, your regular brakes use hydraulic fluid that is pushed to the position through the master cylinder that is actuated by your foot pedal. When you push the pedal you push fluid into the back of the piston and it compresses.

Since your e-brake cannot use that system because if you lost fluid neither would work. Therefore it uses a separate mechanical mechanism. When you pull the cable it actuates a screw drive that pushes the piston forward but It also rotates back and forth. In order for these to mechanisms to work together in the same caliper to open the caliper back up it has to be both pushed and rotated. CW on one side and CCW on the other. The e-brake has to “travel” with the piston as the pad wears but locks in place as it closes so the e-brake works. The rotation is the motion that re sets it.

[egchewy79]

When you have a piston that is both brake and the parking/e-brake they have to actuate with separate mechanisms. The entire point of an e-brake is that it works when your regular brakes don’t. So, your regular brakes use hydraulic fluid that is pushed to the position through the master cylinder that is actuated by your foot pedal. When you push the pedal you push fluid into the back of the piston and it compresses.

Since your e-brake cannot use that system because if you lost fluid neither would work. Therefore it uses a separate mechanical mechanism. When you pull the cable it actuates a screw drive that pushes the piston forward but It also rotates back and forth. In order for these to mechanisms to work together in the same caliper to open the caliper back up it has to be both pushed and rotated. CW on one side and CCW on the other. The e-brake has to “travel” with the piston as the pad wears but locks in place as it closes so the e-brake works. The rotation is the motion that re sets it.

so the piston doesn't fully rotate 360*, right? it just is able to rotate back and forth within a few degrees when the mechanical brake is actuated.

[Blitzboy54]

so the piston doesn't fully rotate 360*, right? it just is able to rotate back and forth within a few degrees when the mechanical brake is actuated.

This is correct. But it does travel with the piston over the brake life hence the reason it needs to be reset. I’ve never used a cube before. The kit I supplied a link to up a few posts is designed to both twist and compress. It has 2 different tools because they rotate in opposite directions depending on what side of the car your on. All the disks are for mating up to the different styles of slots. Any rear brake on virtually any passenger car that has an “integrated” parking brake will require that tool or something like it.

[AdamIsAdam]

A few things: My brakes are exactly like those in the video. They are from a `94-2004 Fox body Mustang. I thought they were from an 88-89 T-bird, but that's the rear end, not the FFR 11.65" brakes. That's why I ordered the wrong rear pads originally.
My pads only came with pads. The video lists part numbers for the kit that contains the end springs and the top big flat tin spring. One video said those pad springs are optional, but the second one said the ex-boyfriend master mechanic didn't use them and that's stupid as it makes it so the pads won't slide in/out easily. Stupid ex-boyfriend. lol

My brakes are mounted backwards also. LH side on RH side as compared to stock setup. And my parking brake cable comes from the rear of the car forward to the caliper (after doing a 180* loop).

Both my pistons seemed to thread into the caliper clockwise. For the the one on my passenger side did, which is marked LH. The one on the drivers side, marked RH also seemed to turn in clockwise, but I didn't need to move it much to put back together.

Now, I think there's an external part of the piston and then behind it, inside, is the parking brake part that actually screws out to take up the slack as the pads wear. That's how the piston is able to lock into the pad and not rotate. This is discussed in the video when he said the piston will keep rotating once it's fully retracted - it's two separate pieces.

Yup, this has been fun. I can't wait to take it out and bed the brakes in and then see if I get the improvement I'm hoping for. I really think I will, considering the condition of the front pads! I'm also hoping for less rear brake dust. Do the HP Plus pads shed more dust than the HPS? If not, I'll live with it or I'll switch over to PowerStop Z26. The only problem with those is that they are not made for my front SVT Cobra `93 calipers.

I'll report back, hopefully tomorrow.

[egchewy79]

huh, I always assumed that the rear 11.65" brakes were from 87-88 Tbird. At least that's what Dan from FFR told me in the past. Regardless, I ordered the hawk pads and will get the dorman clips as the ones provided in my kit are not the appropriate clips.

[AdamIsAdam]

Question: my parking brake doesn't work to well. I adjusted the cable, but they never get really tight. Given that my calipers are mounted on the opposite side of the car, would that impede the self adjusting mechanism and thus limit the parking brake travel? Remember, the piston on the passenger side was extended and needed to be screwed in. My old pads are barely worn. The car has about 2,800 miles.

[egchewy79]

Question: my parking brake doesn't work to well. I adjusted the cable, but they never get really tight. Given that my calipers are mounted on the opposite side of the car, would that impede the self adjusting mechanism and thus limit the parking brake travel? Remember, the piston on the passenger side was extended and needed to be screwed in. My old pads are barely worn. The car has about 2,800 miles.

my ebrakes works ok. I cannot push the car with the brake engaged. The cable is pretty tight. I cannot pull the cable off as shown in the video with just pliers without compressing the spring first w/ vice grips. I have a lokar clevis that allow me to adjust the tension on the cables by turning a threaded rod. Without it, I'm not sure how you'd be able to get enough tension on the cable. My rear brake set up is like yours, on the front of rotor with the calipers swapped left/right.

[Blitzboy54]

I should clarify something. Every set of brakes I’ve ever replaced needed to be rotated in opposite directions but I’ve never changed Fords. It is possible I suppose they could need to be rotated the same direction. I shouldn’t say definitively they rotate in opposite directions.

[AdamIsAdam]

huh, I always assumed that the rear 11.65" brakes were from 87-88 Tbird. At least that's what Dan from FFR told me in the past. Regardless, I ordered the hawk pads and will get the dorman clips as the ones provided in my kit are not the appropriate clips.

If you go to the FFR parts web site you can find the rear brake parts description and it says 94-04 OEM rear disc brakes. I'll try to attach an image here but I'm on my phone.. Can't do it now. I can in the morning.

[rich grsc]

I should clarify something. Every set of brakes I’ve ever replaced needed to be rotated in opposite directions but I’ve never changed Fords. It is possible I suppose they could need to be rotated the same direction. I shouldn’t say definitively they rotate in opposite directions.
No, both rotate in the same direction
Ok, just read all the latter comments, some incorrect info here.
The pistons, DO NOT rotate in the caliper when in use. The parking brake adjusting screw inside the caliper rotates. This is the self adjusting mechanism, which work when you apply and release the parking brake.
You should only turn the piston in enough to slip the caliper and pads over the rotor. If you run it all the way in, you are going to have poor rear brakes, and you will need to apply and release the P-brake handle a bunch of times to remove the slack
I'm pretty sure the 87-88 Tbird calipers where used on the early IRS, not the solid axles

[AdamIsAdam]

Here's the rear brake info I have showing where the pads come from.

148949

[egchewy79]

I saw this too. we'll see if the hawk pads I ordered fits. The pads sent with my kit don't have those exposed tabs on the end for the clips. The pad material goes all the way to the end of the pad. I can also try to find any casting numbers on the calipers to determine exactly which calipers they sent me.

[AdamIsAdam]

Well, i just went for a lunchtime ride to bed the brakes in and report back:

1. It's scary to drive without brakes! LOL. Before bedding them in I had virtually no brakes - and I live in an extremely populated area!
2. I bed them in per instructions then went for a highway ride to cool them down.
3. They are better now, but I know from my other hi-po brakes that they will get stronger after more than just 20 miles. I will repeat the bedding process this weekend. I think it's important to do that especially considering I did not replace or turn the rotors, so I want to make sure I get a nice layer of pad to build up on the rotors.
4. My pedal has more travel than before. I assume that's from turning in the pistons in the back. It got a little better by the end of my ride.

Q. What's the best way to activate the self-adjusting rear brakes? Do I just drive normally? Do I brake while going backwards like old drum brakes? Should I use the hand brake (which I don't normally bother with)?

And finally, when I got home the wheels did not look nearly as dusty as the Hawk HP Plus pads. And given that I bed them in, I think that's a good sign.

[rich grsc]

Been explained once already, didn't read all the posts?

[AdamIsAdam]

Been explained once already, didn't read all the posts?

Oh, I see where you added that info at 9:18am to your 9am post. That was after I read it.

Thanks for the info.


No, both rotate in the same direction
Ok, just read all the latter comments, some incorrect info here.
The pistons, DO NOT rotate in the caliper when in use. The parking brake adjusting screw inside the caliper rotates. This is the self adjusting mechanism, which work when you apply and release the parking brake.
You should only turn the piston in enough to slip the caliper and pads over the rotor. If you run it all the way in, you are going to have poor rear brakes, and you will need to apply and release the P-brake handle a bunch of times to remove the slack
I'm pretty sure the 87-88 Tbird calipers where used on the early IRS, not the solid axles

Last edited by rich grsc; Today at 09:18 AM.

[egchewy79]

OK. got my hawk pads today....too small. I must have the 87-88 tbird calipers as I originally believed. my stock brake pads are 4.5" by 2.3ish" which is the same size as the HB580B.627 pads. I see that the HB580s don't come in varying thicknesses, only different compounds.
They must have changed the rear brake package after I received my kit.

[AdamIsAdam]

Oy! Perhaps take the old pads off and bring them in to any auto parts and match up the parts.