After some debate, I have made a decision

[usafajk610]

As the title says, I have made a decision. I originally thought I wanted to do the coupe for it's more ample trunk space and the roof. But after some advice on putting AC in it (something I didn't want to do) and asking about experiences with the soft top on the MK4, the MK4 is the way I plan to go. It's still going to be more race car than road car in features, but will suit the kind of driving I intend to do. Plus for the money, the complete kit gives the means to do a more "finished" car if you will. Interior carpet wasn't something I had planned on with the coupe, was going to do some spray in bedliner on the interior panels, may still on the MK4 but it'll be under carpet at least.

Here's the plan:

I basically want to replace my motorcycle riding with 4 wheels. Eventually I'll order a soft top for the car for the 2-3 trips a year to visit family in NC from GA (hopefully moving soon, inspection for house sale is Monday). So for 98% of the driving I'll do, it'll be like most of my riding on the motorcycle, nice days, just tooling around and enjoying a nice day on the road.

306/TKX or 347/TKX from Blueprint. Savings on the coupe kit vs MK4 I can spend half those savings on going with more HP/TQ. So likely 347.

Complete kit with the following options
-pre-powder coated
-Vintage GPS gauges
-302/351 mounts
-302 SS headers
-Hydraulic clutch kit
-31 spline drive shaft
-Body Cutouts pre cut
-Vinyl covered vintage seats (some of the kit savings I made upgrade to leather seats)
-Manual steering rack (I've been advised to do power steering, but I'm stubborn and am going to do what I'm going to do)
-Standard width lower control arms
-3 link rear suspension
-Vintage wiper kit
-leather steering wheel
-wind wings
-rear brake kit
-mosier rear end via FFR

Car will be one color. My dad suggested a British racing green, which I like, but I'm also partial to a Guardsman Blue. I saw a thread where Jeff had mentioned the PPG Deltron line of paints having 2 different metal flake sizes. As far as wheels go, I hadn't made a decision but consulting with my dad he suggested American Racing Torq Thrust wheels. I like the look and price. Not traditional like the Halibrands but they're a sharp looking wheel. Probably do smaller wheel, bigger sidewall to compensate going with a less modern rear suspension.

Will add some convenience items like cup holders, USB charging ports, and some of the more common storage modifications like the drop trunk. I saw a rear cubby modification to the back of the cabin I like the idea of. But that's about it. I have permission from the wife to use money from school to save for the kit, so should be about 2 years to plan it completely and be able to jump in and get rolling.

Any suggestions or observations?

[GoDadGo]

Any suggestions or observations?

..Building These Cars Is A Lot Like SCUBA Diving.
Plan Your Dive & Dive Your Plan So Plan Your Build & Build Your Plan!
.........................Welcome Aboard!

[JohnK]

Welcome to the forum! It sounds like a solid plan. I'm sure you'll have a blast with the whole process.

[nucjd19]

You sort of went down my rabbit hole....... BPE 347TKO600, planning on single color ( Black probably ), 3 link, wind wings, drop trunk and drop battery mod, USB Charger and cup holders, I did do power steering though, Vintage Kirkey Low back seats, adjustable driver seat, powder coat, yadyadayada...... I have been SO happy with my build and the process. I think I will have withdrawals when it is over.

[usafajk610]

I'm looking forward to getting to do it. The build almost more than the driving. But I'll have to curb my enthusiasm until I can order the kit. Copper may also be a color option. One color because I want to do the paint myself. I've done a lot of hvlp painting in the military, this will just be a little more detail oriented than make ground support equipment go from green to grey.

Still toying around what engine specifically. I think the bpe 302 won't be enough horsepower but price is tempting. 306 is kinda the goldilocks zone. But figuring 15-20% power loss since the dyno number will be at the crank 315 out of the 306 wouldn't be bad. But 350 out of the 347 would be quite a bit in a light, short wheelbase car.

My dad has been suggesting finding a mid 60s Mustang coupe and resto mod ing it. They pop up in reasonable running and driving shape for $8-10k around east Texas once in a while. There was one on Craigslist for $8800 a few weeks ago, 1966 red with the original 289 in it. Didn't last more than a day or two. But that's a lot more I think to take on. Disassembly, clean up, repair/replace/rebuild stuff. Don't know that it would end up any cheaper in the end and probably take twice as long. Much prefer new, clean parts, and just build

[Tbev]

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service to our country. My one piece of advice is to not wait too long to get your build going. I came up with a million excuses to put mine off, life got in the way, no time, not enough money. Now that I have no excuses and have my kit I wish I had not waited. It sounds like your dad is excited to help you. Mine was too and now that I have the kit his health will not allow him to do so. I started mine a couple months ago and am enjoying every minute of it, but will always regret that my dad can't help me with it.
Tony

[CraigS]

If there is any way you can swing it, go for the IRS. Keep a few things in mind when weighing $ of IRS vs 3 link. 1- buy a complete salvage rear suspension and be sure it includes the brakes. The brakes are really, really good and, since it's from a Mustang every one makes pads for it. I just eliminated the last 2 items on your spec sheet. 2- besides the advantage while you drive it, if you ever sell, it will be a big advantage then. 3- I know it's just me, but I'd prefer a 306 w/ IRS vs a 347 w/ 3 link.

[Railroad]

These are after the order options, but I tote a lot of junk and needed the cubby hole, and drop trunk kits.

[usafajk610]

I can't do anything about the wait time for the build. I simply can't swing it for another two years. I'll be going to Athens Tech when we move to Georgia here soon, GI Bill housing allowance is what I'll be saving to buy the kit. Solid rear axle is something I want to do on the car, I'm gonna stick to my stubborn self and do it. 306 or 347 will come later. I'll do as much work on the car without the engine as I can. Not doing any salvage parts though, I refuse. If I'm going to put time and money into something like building a car, I don't want to have to rework/restore anything on it. And as of right now, no plans to sell once complete 1. because if I spend the time and money I'm going to enjoy it for me and 2. the titling process in GA is a nightmare from what I've read. Far easier to just get the car registered.

I figured I'd do my own sheet metal work on the cubby hole and drop trunk. I did aircraft structural maintenance in the air force, so sheet metal and rivets is what I did on a daily basis. Granted I won't have access to some of the tools I did, I'm willing to do it myself vs. buying kits.

[cnutting]

One thing to consider is changing out the 3-link lower control arms. I used the ones from Breeze, GoDad went with the Spohn ones. Good bang for the buck...

[usafajk610]

I'll have to look into that when the time comes. I'm also looking into the shifter relocation people have done. I don't like the weird forward angle. I've seen some just flip the linkage 180 degrees and use an S bend shift arm, but I've also seen kits for the shorter shifter. Something I'll want to do.

I'd love to have my dad involved in the build, but he's not going to be close enough to help and hasn't reached a point where he can retire yet. Right now he's trying to find a job in the Charlotte area so my parents can actually move from PA to NC. They've had the house for a year, but being that he's 58 with 30 years in project management, he's in a unique situation. Has the experience to warrant a good paying job, but old enough he's close to retirement age (don't know that he ever would) that companies don't want to take a chance on him I guess? When we moved from NY to PA when I was in my early teens, my dad talked about building one of these cars. So that combined with my last motorcycle experience made me want to do this. I'll just have to wait a little longer.

If I went the route of rebuilding a ford 8.8 rear axle, what options do I have to salvage from other than a fox body mustang? I've seen mentions of the axles out of rangers being used to convert to 5 lug. But is there another rear axle assembly that would work without much modification?

[Tbev]

Your dad doesn't need to be there to be involved in your build. He already is by giving you suggestions. And when you get your kit you can talk to him on the phone for his help/advice. My dad has dementia and can not comprehend most of what I tell him about my build. I wasn't suggesting to go out and get your kit now. Just don't wait too long, for the "perfect" time. I did and realize now that the perfect time was 5 years ago when I may not of had as much time to dedicate to my build as I do now, but I would of been able to talk to my father about it and he may of still been well enough to turn a wrench.
Good luck and be careful, these guys on this forum are great at spending your money!

[Papa]

First, welcome to the FF family! You'll find a lot of very helpful people here that can get you past any hurdles you encounter along the way. Second, absolutely build the car the way you want to build it. Now for the suggestions:

a. Consider the Gas-N polished side pipes vs. the FFR stainless. They are a bit more expensive, but will outlast the FFR pipes 2-3x from what I've read. Just get the raw steel pipes with the kit and save the jewelry for the end.

b. Considering your decision to go solid axle vs. IRS, what is driving that decision? This can't be upgraded later, so be absolutely sure of your choice before committing. I built my car with the 3-link and it is the biggest single regret I have. At the time, the IRS was considerably more expensive, and that drove my decision, but in the end, the difference wouldn't have been that hard to work with. Today, you can buy complete rear clips out of a wrecked Mustang for less than the cost of the solid rear axle. You say you don't want to put salvage parts in the car, but consider a nearly-new center section, knuckles, and rear brakes (all you need from the Mustang), it's a pretty nice deal and no one will be able to tell the parts aren't new once installed in your MK4.

c. A 306 will be plenty of fun in one of these cars, but I understand the "no replacement for displacement "hotrodder's mantra.

d. Another list of upgrades from the complete kit that make a big difference in the build that you might want to consider:
- Drop trunk (Russ Thompson)
- Battery relocation kit (Breeze or FFMetal)
- Fan shroud (Breeze)
- Lower radiator mount (Breeze)
- Cooling tubes (Boig Motorsports)
- Self-cancelling turn signals (Russ Thompson)

Have fun and be safe!

Dave

[CobraboyDR]

Motorcyclist here.

Carry your bike rain gear for those topless unexpected downpours...:p

[usafajk610]

Tbev-I know, and I'm not waiting for the perfect time, waiting until I have the money to actually get the kit. I'm lucky (I guess is the way to look at it) with my situation. My wife has a remote job in network security and was medically retired from the air force. So between her pay, VA disability, and my VA disability, I don't necessarily have to work. Granted, if I find a job when we move it'll get things rolling sooner. But that's my reason for going to school. Athens Tech has an automotive program and a welding program. I'll do probably the automotive program first, let the GI Bill take care of that and learn something new that'll help with the build. I already have two degrees, BS in accounting and my AAS for aircraft maintenance. So I'll have the time once I have the kit. No kids, just dogs.

Papa-Was planning to do either a high heat paint or ceramic coated pipes. I'll figure that out when I get to that point. If down the road I need to swap them out, so be it. Car will likely be ever evolving on easier stuff. Cost is kind of the major thing driving the solid rear axle and what I can afford to do sooner. But also more true to form for the car I guess. Keeping things simpler. It's what I want to do. Same reason I'm going to do a carbureted car instead of EFI. 306 vs 347 will come down to which motor and trans I can afford when I order. How much can be done without those two important parts? The price jump from 306 to 347 isn't much so just whichever one I decide on when I order, 306 puts power to weight at same ratio as my current bike, which is bordering on dangerous. As far as other mods go, I've seen the Russ Thompson turn signal set up, I like it and will look into it. Anything that involves sheet metal work, I'll probably build myself. My BIL is also a welder, so if I don't want to do tabs with rivets on some sheet metal, he can take care of it for me.

CobraboyDR-I'll need to do something with my riding gear. Although one of the older guys from the local Indian Motorcycle Riding Group has said, once you get caught in the rain and get wet, putting rain gear on just isn't worth it, you get all steamy. I won't have a bike, if everything goes my way, once I get started on the car. Current motorcycle is undergoing lemon law proceedings.

[edwardb]

That’s at least the second or third time you’ve said solid axle for simplicity and suggested that IRS is more complicated or harder. It’s not. I’ve done both and they’re about the same. You obviously have your mind made up. But make sure you’re deciding for the right reason(s). Cost I get it. Although there are alternatives as has been suggested. Too bad you can’t take a ride in each. You’d see what we’re talking about.

[usafajk610]

For someone who's only mechanical experience has been with aircraft and motorcycles, the IRS seems complicated. I don't have a performance based reason for wanting to do the solid axle other than arguing it's more true to form for the original cars. Difference in ride comfort? Would be cool to be able to check out a car with and without. But honestly, even a solid rear axle has to be more comfortable than some of the motorcycles I've ridden and owned. I've had 6 in the last 2 1/2 years and over the course of a year and a half at a motorcycle dealership have ridden several dozen different bikes. From a lowly little sportster or parallel twin naked sport bike, to my current touring bike. If I can deal with the discomfort of a sportster as my only means of transportation for almost a year, I don't think IRS is going to be that important to me. Plus I'm still relatively young, I'll have time before I regret it.

[JohnK]

If you have aircraft and motorcycle experience, you have more than enough experience to handle an IRS install. It's nowhere near the most complicated thing I've done on the car (and I'm not even close to being finished). It's one of the few true "follow the manual" assembly processes on the whole car.

[edwardb]

For someone who's only mechanical experience has been with aircraft and motorcycles, the IRS seems complicated. I don't have a performance based reason for wanting to do the solid axle other than arguing it's more true to form for the original cars...

Original Shelby Cobras were IRS. Not solid axle. The Smith brothers probably get the award for introducing the solid axle with their Fox body Mustang donor concept when the company was launched. Nothing wrong with it. And the 3-link is a huge upgrade over the initial 4-link donor setups. For years, Factory Five offered an IRS option based on the '80's super coupe. Was marketed as their "comfort" suspension and the 3-link was the "performance" suspension. With the re-designed setup based on the 2015+ Mustang parts, the IRS setup is now the most comfortable and the highest performance. Proven on the track.

"Seems complicated..." versus actual experience. Hmmm...

As several have said, make it your way and I support that. I certainly have built mine my way. Just interesting decision making. I'm out. Good luck.

[usafajk610]

So they were. Doesn't change what I want to do with the car, don't need to have supporting justifications for it either. And yes the IRS seems complicated to me. I have no experience with cars, so what of it? Sure airplanes are more complicated, but sheet metal and paint/corrosion prevention is the part I dealt with.

It will be built my way, but the feeling of being attacked and told I should do it this way or that way doesn't make it seem supported. I'll just poke around on here and lurk until I can build my car, hope someone else has asked and had answered any questions I come across, and I'll stay out of here.

[JohnK]

I think you're misreading the room and getting defensive where it's not warranted. Lots of new folks (myself included) come here asking questions and it's clear they have some preconceived notions that are not grounded in reality. God knows I've done it myself countless times. People are just pointing out to you that if the reason you're shying away from doing an IRS is the complexity, that's not necessarily a valid concern. If you want to do a solid axle just because you want to do a solid axle then that's your choice and you'll get plenty of support for that. In the end it's all just about making informed decisions, and people here are just trying to share their experiences so you can do just that. If you're taking that as being attacked then that's too bad because I"m pretty sure that's not anyone's intent in this thread. Anyway, best of luck to you with whatever you decide to do.

[Papa]

So they were. Doesn't change what I want to do with the car, don't need to have supporting justifications for it either. And yes the IRS seems complicated to me. I have no experience with cars, so what of it? Sure airplanes are more complicated, but sheet metal and paint/corrosion prevention is the part I dealt with.

It will be built my way, but the feeling of being attacked and told I should do it this way or that way doesn't make it seem supported. I'll just poke around on here and lurk until I can build my car, hope someone else has asked and had answered any questions I come across, and I'll stay out of here.

You've got a lot of experience to help you here, nobody is going to tell you how to build your car, but just want to give you the information to make more educated decisions. I wouldn't take anything anyone here says as critical, just opinions based on first-hand experience. I'd never done more than basic maintenance on cars before diving in to my MK4. The guys on here were invaluable in helping me build my car. Take the advice you want and ignore the rest. Just know that everyone here means well and will respect your right to build your car your way.

Dave

[usafajk610]

While I respect the level of craftsman ship Paul puts into his builds (his coupe is beautiful), it does feel like he's been dogging anything I post about and ask questions about. The seems complicated vs actual experience comment kind of sums it up. In the reality I'm in, with my experience, IRS is complicated. I've read through the PDF manual a few times.

Seems complex and cost is about $1k more than doing a solid rear axle. That's why I don't want to do it. It's going to be my car, I don't care if "Joe, Bob, and Steve" think I should do IRS. It's not going to be their car.

I'm a younger guy, I'd guess than 95% of those, who have built/are building a coupe or a roadster. I don't find many modern cars all that appealing, including the 818. Just looks like a 350z or 370z to me. My dad even suggested why not just buy a new Mustang instead of build a car. They're not really attractive cars to me, too much money for what they are especially if you don't want an eco boost. Just seems to me like I'm running into more of a good ole boys club here with those more experienced.

[Tbev]

I've been on this forum for 2-1/2 years, often daily, and not once have I thought "Just seems to me like I'm running into more of a good ole boys club here with those more experienced." Guys like Paul offer their vast amount of knowledge at no charge. Not to mention the hours and hours that go into putting together their build threads. Paul's 20th Anniversary build thread is often more helpful to me than the build manual. I think this is a case of tone being misread. I'd bet anything that if this conversation happened at a bar you would of walked away thinking, wow, some of those guys really know their sh*t and they are super nice. That's why I hate texting also, too easy to misread tone.

[usafajk610]

I poke around on here daily, while I wait day by day to get closer to when I can order a kit. Knowledge is free of charge, seems like I just hear from him how to build my build any time he's chimed in. That's all. Conversation at a bar would have been without me there.

Can a mod just go ahead and delete my account? I'll worry about any questions once I can build my car. See y'all under a different name in 2 years or so.

[BradCraig]

You mentioned Charlotte, NC. Next time you are here, let me know and we can discuss if you want. Don't misinterpret the tone of the guys in this group, wealth of knowledge that is invaluable. No one here is going to tell you how to build your car but may give you alternate opinions of things to consider. Group is filled with "I wish I would have done it this way or listened to that advice". Me included. Cheers.

[usafajk610]

Shooting for around 4th of July to see family. Selling our house in Louisiana and moving to Georgia. Closing date is set, just the steps in between. But we'll hopefully be out in Georgia around the middle of June and trips to Charlotte from there

[edwardb]

While I respect the level of craftsman ship Paul puts into his builds (his coupe is beautiful), it does feel like he's been dogging anything I post about and ask questions about.

Just not he case but if that's what you think I'm sorry. I could say more in my defense but it doesn't matter. I won't bother you any more.

[GoDadGo]

Motorcyclist here.

Carry your bike rain gear for those topless unexpected downpours...:p
I'm a former Motorcyclist as of 2018 so our rain gear is a Huge Golf Umbrella.
We simply find an overpass or pull into a gas station and open the sucker up.
A 68" canopy covers the entire cockpit and got it at Amazon.

MRTLLOA Automatic Open Golf Umbrella
68 Inch Extra-Large Oversized Double Canopy
Vented Windproof Waterproof

[usafajk610]

Just not he case but if that's what you think I'm sorry. I could say more in my defense but it doesn't matter. I won't bother you any more.

I owe you an apology. Just frustrated by it and wasn't sure how to say it. I respect your opinion and feedback on what you've done and think is the best way to go. Just felt like I kept having to justify a decision, albeit one that's 2 years from being important with my time line, to you any time I said anything about what I wanted to do. And that's on me Paul, not you. I don't remember what the medical term is but has to do with my anxiety. Oddly enough same thing occurs face to face even being able to hear tone of voice. I got myself worked up about it and my impatience with wanting to jump in feet first but being unable to.

That being said, what does FFR include in the IRS kit? Do I just need to source CV axles and the center section along with brakes?

[Tbev]

That being said, what does FFR include in the IRS kit? Do I just need to source CV axles and the center section along with brakes?

The kit comes with the axles and the upper and lower control arms and coil over shocks. You can purchase the brakes, differential, knuckles, and hubs from FFR or source them from somewhere else.

[usafajk610]

So about $2k difference over doing solid axle sourcing parts from FFR. But IRS option can potentially be done cheaper sourcing from a relatively clean salvage vehicle?

[Tbev]

So about $2k difference over doing solid axle sourcing parts from FFR. But IRS option can potentially be done cheaper sourcing from a relatively clean salvage vehicle?

It's more than that. I believe it's $2,500 for the IRS option alone and another $1,500 if you go with FFR differential, knuckles, and hubs. Then add brakes. You can save some money with salvaged parts. Don't quote me on those numbers because i'm going from memory which is never a good idea for me.

[usafajk610]

Same options IRS vs solid axle through FFR I end up about the price of the center section/hubs/spindles. About $1300. So it's feasible, if I can figure it out, to do the 306 and IRS. I think someone else mentioned in this thread they'd rather have a 306 and IRS over 347 and solid axle. I've got time to figure it out. Could be about the same price if i source salvaged parts. I suppose I can get the rear end now and rebuild that until I can order a kit.

[Tbev]

Solid axle is $2700. $650 for brakes. I think it comes out to $2k give or take difference. But salvaged parts would be cheaper if i went irs. If I stick to new parts only it will be a solid rear axle. I guess we'll see come time for me to order a kit

Duh, I missed that you had said "difference" and thought you were talking about the total cost for IRS. You are correct.

[Papa]

Here's an example of what you can get from salvage:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-2020-Ford-Mustang-GT-5-0-IRS-8-8-3-15-Gears-Independent-Rear-End-Complete-/154451912628?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286

Not the best ratio, but just an example. So, $2,500 for the IRS + $550 for the other parts you need including rear brakes.

Total: $3,050 give or take with variable salvage cost. Check your local salvage yards.

Solid axle from FFR:

$2,700 + freight
Rear brake kit from FFR $650
Total: $3,350

[usafajk610]

I've found a few of those posts on ebay. All around $500-600 for a complete rear end. I sent in a request to a local salvage yard near where I'll be in Georgia (about 10 minutes up the road) to see what they'd charge. Initially just searched rear axle assembly. It said $75. I'm going to assume it isn't what I was looking for or if I go pull it myself, so I requested a quote on the brakes, spindles/hubs, and center section. If I can get the whole setup for $75-300 and it's a lower mileage car, IRS may be what I do. I can refurbish that while I wait to order the kit.

3.55 gear ratio is what I want correct?

So it can be done for same cost as solid axle if I go refurbished and honestly may be easier to find parts cheaper.

[Papa]

My recommendation on the ratio would be 3.55. Others may offer their preferred ratio. I have 3.55 in my 8.8 and like it for cruising at anything up to ~70 mph. Above that and the rpms get obnoxious for extended periods of time.

[usafajk610]

Most of what I keep finding is a 3.15 ratio rear end. So I guess we'll see what the soon to be local salvage yard has and then I wait a year or two.

[CobraboyDR]

I'm a former Motorcyclist as of 2018 so our rain gear is a Huge Golf Umbrella.
We simply find an overpass or pull into a gas station and open the sucker up.
A 68" canopy covers the entire cockpit and got it at Amazon.

MRTLLOA Automatic Open Golf Umbrella
68 Inch Extra-Large Oversized Double Canopy
Vented Windproof WaterproofI offer motorcycle tours here in the DR. Because we are warm year-round, if it rains I just get wet, sometimes it comes as a relief, and my mesh gear dries out in a matter of minutes. I wear wicking shorts and shirts underneath.

I'll put on rain gear if the weather is going to be embedded wet. I've done that maybe 5 times in 13 years. I use Frog Togs made with breathable Tyvek so sweating underneath is a non-factor.

A Cobra down here would need a top because the overpasses are few and far between, and covered gas stations are magnets for everybody on the streets. It's a Third World thing...;).

Maybe someone could design a combo tonneau cover and poncho, so all that is sticking out is your head...

[CobraboyDR]

My recommendation on the ratio would be 3.55. Others may offer their preferred ratio. I have 3.55 in my 8.8 and like it for cruising at anything up to ~70 mph. Above that and the rpms get obnoxious for extended periods of time.Depends on the tranny.

I'm in the school of a SBF with a .64OD 5th works best with a 3.73 rear, best of both worlds: stoplight-to-stoplight screamin' speedster and mid-rpm slab cruiser.

[usafajk610]

I think there were only one or two times I got caught in the rain unexpectedly on a bike. The most memorable was picking up my 2019 Chieftain. The dealer was out of inspection stickers, so I had to run up to the other dealer under the same owner. I got my sticker and as I'm getting ready to head out, the sky had opened up and was downpouring. It was only a few miles back to the house, but I looked like a drown rat when I got home.

[usafajk610]

Depends on the tranny.

I'm in the school of a SBF with a .64OD 5th works best with a 3.73 rear, best of both worlds: stoplight-to-stoplight screamin' speedster and mid-rpm slab cruiser.

I was thinking of ordering the trans with the 0.64 5th gear when I got to that point. I was wondering how much can be done without having the engine and transmission on hand?

[CraigS]

Pretty much everything. You are going w/ a fairly standard setup, SBF and TKO/X trans so there are many similar on the road and here in build threads. So easy to look at what fits where. You can't do the final clearancing for the side pipes but that is easy when you install the engine.

[usafajk610]

I was hoping for that answer. I'll likely be in the boat of building as much of the kit as possible and part way through have saved again for engine/trans from BP, though I was looking at the options from Forte's Performance, and kind of be at a stand still point for a bit. I did just sell the last of my musically equipment and have money for a deposit and a little more, but I'm still looking at 15-18 months out for full funds and location for the build.

We're going to be in the Athens, GA area, but further east and being more rural, housing is very limited right now. So it'll likely be a few months of living with family. The discussion of buying land and then building a barndominium has come up a few times and is very appealing. I just don't know how far out you can ask for an order.

[Papa]

FFR had no problem setting my completion date out six months from my initial order date, but I have no idea how far in advance they will accept orders. I haven't seen any real price increases on the kits since I've been working with FFR, so not sure that locking in early to avoid a price increase is a major concern (could be wrong). Also, FFR has offered sales from time to time and given your timeline, you may want to hold out for a sale before ordering. You might save some money that way.

[JohnK]

I believe FFR typically runs a holiday sale in the Nov/Dec timeframe that will save a little bit of money. I agree with everyone else that you can get a REALLY long way into your build without having an engine and trans on hand.

[NiceGuyEddie]

A little late to the party but my 3¢ is:


A vote of confidence on the 347 - the low-end torque is a LOT of fun
I would highly recommend a short-throw shifter - the shifts in these cars are naturally long and it helps a lot
Please don't skimp on the tires - get sticky ones such as Nitto NT-05's and consider it safety upgrade. Cheap, crummy tires can get you in trouble.

[usafajk610]

If there is a summer sale, and I hear back I can place an order that far out, I may do that then. I don't know if they'll combine that with the $500 for military.

The 347 will be a serious contender if I decide not to do IRS, which I'm not leaning towards. I think I'll live with just a solid axle. Budget by that point should allow for it considering it's only $1400 more than the 306 combo. My dad would tell me to do a 427 unless I went with the 289 USRRC kit.

The shifter mod is something I'll end up doing. I don't like the forward canted ones the originals had, just seems unergonomic and looks a little weird.

And I will not skimp on tires. One thing that motorcycles has taught me is sticky tires are the way to go. Even going with the 306, this car will have a similar P-to-W as my motorcycle. The tires on it were developed for the bike by Metzler. 122 hp in a bike weighing in at 830 lbs, I've tripped the traction control more than a few times with it.

In other news, home inspection is done, about $40 worth of repairs if the buyer asks for them. One step closer to GA and building my car.

[first time builder]

Your going to love Ga. I lived in Marietta for three years, wish I never left. Good luck with the move. And thank you for your service. Before you commit to BPE you might want to give Mike Forte a call. Pricing probably a bit less than BPE and personal service.

[usafajk610]

I'm looking forward to being in GA. I'll be close to my in-laws, I like my FIL which is who we'll be living with for a bit (along with 5 german shepherds and a mutt), and only about 3 hours from family in Charlotte. Where on Long Island are you? I grew up in Bohemia and still have an uncle in East Islip.

I saw the pricing on Forte's and was pleased to see quite a difference on the options. The 306 BPE and a T-5 from Fortes is about $2k cheaper. The 347 and TKO/X is about the same as the BPE 306 offering. I'll look into that as I get closer to that point. Any other recommended vendors for an engine/trans combo?

[first time builder]

I live in Holbrook been here 26 yrs before that Ga. I have a good friend that lives in East Islip. Used to own Ghost Performance on Main Street.

[usafajk610]

We moved from NY to PA in 2004, though I've not been back in that area in a while. I think the last time I was in Bohemia was like 2006-7 and then we used to visit my uncle almost every labor day and take their boat out to Fire Island. But I think the last time I made that trip was before I graduated from college. We ended up in a popular vacation spot that would be inundated with people from NY and NJ around that weekend, so we'd head the opposite direction and spend the weekend clamming and hanging out at the beach.

[TriPower]

I have Gordon Levy 5 link with solid 8.8 axle 3.55 gears. Love it, if you can get the Torsen upgrade to the diff then you will have NO fish tail, with 347 making 490 hp.

My friend a machinic works on my Cobra and a recent Backdraft with IRS. He said the Backdraft fish tails much more.

I consider this a safety issue, IMO.

My first engine was a 306 making 356 hp and after a few years it was not as much fun, so I upgraded to the 347, with Levy T-5 transmission capable of 600 ft-lbs. WOW want a difference.

But you have to start somewhere and you are right to consider budget and safety. Build it your way, but good to explore options.

Lee

[Blitzboy54]

I believe FFR typically runs a holiday sale in the Nov/Dec timeframe that will save a little bit of money. I agree with everyone else that you can get a REALLY long way into your build without having an engine and trans on hand.

I'm almost a full roller and don't have a motor yet

[nuhale]

My recommendation on the ratio would be 3.55. Others may offer their preferred ratio. I have 3.55 in my 8.8 and like it for cruising at anything up to ~70 mph. Above that and the rpms get obnoxious for extended periods of time.

I'm running a 3.27 rear with my gen2 coyote. Absolutely great on the highway but 5th gear is worthless below 50mph. Big jump from 4th to 5th. Find myself wanting that extra gear around 40-50. Bought my build 2nd hand so previous owner had this so I just went with it to save a few bucks. I would have gone 3.55 (may go this route in the future).

Good luck on your build!!

[usafajk610]

I heard back from F5 on it, they said the furthest out they're scheduling now is Feb 2022. So they advised me to wait until I'm about 6 months out. So if all goes well, I'll hopefully be placing my order about this time next year, maybe sooner if I can help it.

[usafajk610]

So I've been following someones Type 65 build on youtube that I assume is on here somewhere. He has this toggle switch set from New Vintage USA wired up as his Power, Access/Ignition, and Starter. I'm thinking of going that route and ditching the key, but would like to do some kind of immobilizer module with a fob. Does Digital Guard Dawg make a system like that, not a full keyless/push button start? Pro's/Con's of doing something like this?

I figure even with the FFR key, it wouldn't take much to just jump some wires to start the car if left unattended somewhere, so I don't know that it makes a difference. Though garage kept will be a thing, but take the car out to dinner or something, ya know? Short of adding a battery cut off switch wired in somewhere discrete that only I would know about.

[Papa]

I see a lot of builds with a battery cutoff switch with a removable key. Simple solution to keep the average thief from being able to start the car.

[usafajk610]

But worth doing the fob/immobilizer as well if I decide to go with toggles for power/ignition/start?

[Papa]

I know Watson Street Works sells a system that sounds a lot like what you're asking about (push button start with RFID), but I've read mixed results from those that have tried to install similar systems. Maybe someone with first-hand experience will chime in. I think the simpler the better if you want to add some security/anti-theft features.

[usafajk610]

That was kind of the thought, simpler being better. I know Paul has used the DDG push button start. I just don't want the push button portion. I guess I'd be replacing that with the momentary toggle on the switch panel. But some kind of RF/RFID fob that basically disconnects power from battery/fuse panel to the switch panel. So even if someone could replace the battery disconnect, without the fob or knowing how to bypass the fob system, the car still wouldn't start. It would be easier I think if I was going with a fuel injected motor. But I want to go carbureted.

[AC Bill]

Somebody wants the car bad enough, they can just put it in neutral, release the brake, and roll it onto a tilt-deck.:cool:

[rich grsc]

These cars are VERY VERY low on the stolen list. Most cars are taken to go joyriding in, how's that going to happen with a unique one-of a kind, very loud car. The real reason is, most people can't drive a manual transmission car, and it has almost no value to a chop shop. Take the key out, and it's safe. No one wants to steal you car, just want to look at it.

[Jeff Kleiner]

As Rich and Bill said...they are rarely stolen and even more rarely stolen by driving them away. Pay your insurance don't worry about it.

Jeff

[usafajk610]

So just stick with the stock ignition or concealed battery cutoff somewhere if I want to go with the switch panel?

[GoDadGo]

So just stick with the stock ignition or concealed battery cutoff somewhere if I want to go with the switch panel?

Hey USAF,

I'm down in the Dell (Slidell) near New Orleans and I too was worried about my car getting nabbed.

> I installed a quick-release steering wheel, a hidden keyed battery switch plus a hidden barrel keyed switch that kills the starter.
> I take my steering wheel with me when we go out to dinner along with all of my freaking keys (3 Needed To Start) so if it gets stolen it will be on a car hauler.
> After driving it a few months I find that the car attracts so much attention that I doubt if it will get stolen because of the crowd it attracts.
> Add in the fact that Most Wood-Bee Car Thieves typically don't hang around events that we attend and can't drive a stick anyway.
> In retrospect, I went totally overboard with my concerns about the car, but I do make sure the insurance is paid.

Should you find yourself in the South Eastern Swampie Areas of Our Great State, please look me up.

Steve
https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-new/customer-steve-l-graduates-his-mk4-roadster/

[usafajk610]

I had planned to do a quick release steering wheel both for ease of getting in the car and growing up watching NASCAR. Something was cool to me about taking the steering wheel off. Figure I could lock it in the trunk, but was going to go with a splined style and have my BIL weld the splines the steering shaft for me. So I may keep it simple, keyed ignition, battery disconnect, maybe do the starter disconnect. I've seen some 4 pole or dual action disconnect switches. One for battery one for starter.

I don't know that I'll be back in Louisiana. We move to Georgia in a few weeks. 18 days to closing for the sale of our house. But if I'm ever back through, hopefully in my own roadster, I'll certainly reach out.

[Papa]

Hey USAF,

I'm down in the Dell (Slidell) near New Orleans and I too was worried about my car getting nabbed.

> I installed a quick-release steering wheel, a hidden keyed battery switch plus a hidden barrel keyed switch that kills the starter.
> I take my steering wheel with me when we go out to dinner along with all of my freaking keys (3 Needed To Start) so if it gets stolen it will be on a car hauler.
> After driving it a few months I find that the car attracts so much attention that I doubt if it will get stolen because of the crowd it attracts.
> Add in the fact that Most Wood-Bee Car Thieves typically don't hang around events that we attend and can't drive a stick anyway.
> In retrospect, I went totally overboard with my concerns about the car, but I do make sure the insurance is paid.

Should you find yourself in the South Eastern Swampie Areas of Our Great State, please look me up.

Steve
https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-new/customer-steve-l-graduates-his-mk4-roadster/

Steve,

For some reason I can't seem to get the truck startup sequence from the movie Mad Max: Fury Road our of my head.

Dave

[Vegasjack]

Yeah, I have a suggestion. Print this list out and see how many items to change during your build. I am betting a whole lot of them. Just the way it is.

[usafajk610]

Not a bad idea. I have a word document on my computer of what I want to do build wise. So far not much has changed other than sources for things I want to do. I'll probably end up buying the drop trunk kit from RT just to save the hassle of getting a small metal break to make it myself. I'll probably do a BPE from Fortes since the price is better. I have some links saved for stuff I plan to get like steering wheel quick release, Breeze battery box, etc.

Only thing really up in the air is paint color. Going to do it myself, just don't know what color I want to do. The car looks better with stripes, but that's a little more involved than I want to do. At least first go around. I'm a fan of orange, my Matco box is orange, black, and grey. Burnt orange might be too much in your face, slate grey or a battleship grey are options, I like guardsman blue but car doesn't look right without the accompanying white stripes. I just know I don't want to paint it red.

But I've got about 20 months to decide before I pay in full on the kit, so probably 14 months before I order. Plenty of time to change my mind.

[usafajk610]

After some reading around, I've seen several people post the 15" wheels don't work with the rear brake kit for the solid axle. Is this correct? If so would I be better off going with a 17" wheel? What size front and rear are those with 17's running? 245/45/17 up front and 315/35/17 in the rear? What sizes are you guys running?

[Blitzboy54]

You can run whatever you want. Gordon Levy does Wilwoods for 15”. Standard brakes work with everything. I live on this board. I’ve never read that.

[usafajk610]

Interesting, there was a build thread I came across where someone had an interference issue with the FFR supplied rear brakes and ended up with a solution from Gordon Levy. They maybe received the wrong brakes, I'd have to read back on it. But that's the thought that got 15's out of my head.

Another, naive, question or two. I'm looking to use the American Racing Gray Classic Torq-Thurst II wheels. If 15's are an option, I'll likely do 15x8" front and they only offer a 15x10", from what my quick search revelaed, for the rear. What tire size would be recommended in this case?

I'm leaning more towards 17's for variety of tires available. But likely 17x8" up front and 17x9.5" on the rear. Again, recommended tire sizes for this set up?

Is it a 5x4.5" lug spacing?

What backspacing am I looking for front and rear? I'll be using a standard width Moser 8.8 ordered with the kit.

[Blitzboy54]

That sounds like my build actually. I’m using 17”s but ordered FFR supplied wilwoods. The rear had interference with my wheels so I moved to a different rear kit with Gordon. The rear kit I used will also work with 15” wheels

Standard brakes will fit anything

[usafajk610]

I think it was your build, the wheel/tire photo for your profile looks very familiar. And I think it was also the thread that made me realize quite a lot could be done without an engine.

[BluePrintEngines]

Hello,

Thank you for choosing BluePrint Engines! The 306 is a great choice for your MK4! If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to us. We would be more than happy to help you during the building process!

Thank You, Jose

[TriPower]

I installed an under dash kill switch to the MSD box. No way to start the engine.

Lee

[cnutting]

After some reading around, I've seen several people post the 15" wheels don't work with the rear brake kit for the solid axle. Is this correct?

I have 15" wheels with the FFR supplied rear brake kit on a solid axle. No issue.

[Papa]

After some reading around, I've seen several people post the 15" wheels don't work with the rear brake kit for the solid axle. Is this correct? If so would I be better off going with a 17" wheel? What size front and rear are those with 17's running? 245/45/17 up front and 315/35/17 in the rear? What sizes are you guys running?

I think the main issue has been with Wilwood brakes and 15" wheels. There may be other wheels (non-FFR) that could affect brake fitment. I've seen a few tools on-line that can help answer fitment questions, but find that the required measurements are not always available for either the specific brake application or wheel construction. Gordon can certainly offer his experience and advice on Wilwood packages for 15" wheels.

[usafajk610]

These are the wheels I intend to use. The offset and backspacing don't match the FFR Halibrands though, how much of an issue will that cause me?


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/are-vn2157866
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/are-vn21579565

[only1moreracecaripromiss]

Hola and congrats on your final choice! I've been following you a bit as I'm just about to get my Coupe R kit and was hoping to have another Coupe guy to chat up. FYI for you on the TKX and Blueprint.......I ordered mine in early January an update in April was that the build was pushed out.........fast forward to yesterday it was not done because the TKX still wasn't here and could be another 3-6months. Blueprint has offered a TKO plus a bit of a refund and can ship at any point.

Sounds like you have solid plan coming together!

[CraigS]

Those wheels may work. Both have less than desired BS but they are also way narrow so maybe. The fronts are lack 1.2 inch of BS but they are an inch narrow. The rears lack about 1.4 inch BS but are 2-2.5 inch narrow so I guess you will be OK. I like their looks but no way would I give up that width.

[rich grsc]

JMO, but those would look good on an early Mustang or Camaro, not a Cobra

[Jeff Kleiner]

usaf,
You were talking about using 15” wheels but are now showing us 17s. Which one is it? Backspacing aside as Craig mentioned those are rather narrow compared to what is commonly used in 17” sizes...you’ll be limited to a 245 width in front and 275 in the rear. For a similar look check out the Bullitt wheel selections for ‘94-‘04 Mustangs s from LMR, American Muscle, OE Wheels and others. They all have sets available with the proper offsets in 17x9” & 10.5” combinations.

Jeff

[usafajk610]

I'll have to take a look. Those just happened to be what I could find in that style and what I thought would work. Wasn't getting any responses to my initial question about backspacing and offset for the roadster.

Was going to do 15" wheels but options for tires are better in 17".

I'm still miles away from worrying about engine and transmission. Just trying to get everything planned out, so when I get to a point I know what I'm doing. But that's some good information.

Edit:
I'm traveling today, but have 2 hours and 45 minutes to kill in Charlotte before my next flight. I looked at the LMR Bullitt wheels, price is a little more than the American Racing, but correct specs would be better and can order with tires. Added benefit, they are black instead of grey. Which opens up the grey my ranger is as a color for the car. I think orange is going to be too much. A simple, solid charcoal metallic would be nice.

[usafajk610]

Been off the forum for a little while getting ready for the move. Got stuck in PA an extra day due to weather and my flight the following morning was delayed 6 hrs due to a maintenance issue. But house in LA is sold! Buyer had her baby (my wife's fear) about 2 hours before closing, so things took until Friday last week to get finalized. And we've got a contract on a new construction house out here in GA. Should close on it in 4 weeks, but I expect there will be delays. One step closer to ordering my kit and getting started. Delivery will be a little bit of an extra hassle due to a private gravel easement a few hundred feet long, but can always have it delivered to my FIL's house and transport from there.

And I'll be in Charlotte this weekend with family for the 4th of July.

[Papa]

Been off the forum for a little while getting ready for the move. Got stuck in PA an extra day due to weather and my flight the following morning was delayed 6 hrs due to a maintenance issue. But house in LA is sold! Buyer had her baby (my wife's fear) about 2 hours before closing, so things took until Friday last week to get finalized. And we've got a contract on a new construction house out here in GA. Should close on it in 4 weeks, but I expect there will be delays. One step closer to ordering my kit and getting started. Delivery will be a little bit of an extra hassle due to a private gravel easement a few hundred feet long, but can always have it delivered to my FIL's house and transport from there.

And I'll be in Charlotte this weekend with family for the 4th of July.

Stewart Transportation won't have any issue with a gravel driveway that long. They have carts that can easily roll over gravel.

[Chadillac]

Stewart Transportation won't have any issue with a gravel driveway that long. They have carts that can easily roll over gravel.

Yep. I also have an easement that is a couple hundred feet long back to my shop that's just dirt, and not smooth. One guy pulled the cart with a rope, one guy on the back pushing and a third on the side holding it steady. Very easy.

[usafajk610]

I figured the carts they bring with them wouldn't be a problem, just the road we'll be on. Kind of narrow and unless they face the wrong way, they'll be blocking the driveway of the house on the street. The easement is a few feet from their driveway. Which is why when we went to look at the house, meet my wife and the realtor there, I initially drove past it. Slightly blind bend (brush that can be cut back) from the direction I was headed, didn't even see the road.

[Papa]

I figured the carts they bring with them wouldn't be a problem, just the road we'll be on. Kind of narrow and unless they face the wrong way, they'll be blocking the driveway of the house on the street. The easement is a few feet from their driveway. Which is why when we went to look at the house, meet my wife and the realtor there, I initially drove past it. Slightly blind bend (brush that can be cut back) from the direction I was headed, didn't even see the road.

The driver will make the ultimate determination of where he can safely deliver the kit. They will want to know that they can get their truck in and out. As you mentioned, an alternative location is always an option, but makes it a bit more difficult for you. I think four strong people can move the chassis/body, so if you can get it onto a trailer, you should be okay.

[usafajk610]

Yeah, plenty of time to worry about that. Right now, we're just hoping the builder makes the closing date. We met the neighbors today, very nice couple. Their closing date got pushed a few weeks and they informed us that despite what some of the ISP's told them, there is no internet service out there. I decided with delays to be expected and no ISP available (other than Hughesnet satellite=garbage) to get a pre-order in for StarLink. Should be available soon or late this year in our area. Just gotta be patient now.