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Skuzzy
05-13-2021, 04:20 PM
Well, where to start? I am about ready to pull the trigger on my Type 65 order and thought I would drop a line/bomb on the forums just to get things going. With that, here is me...Being raised around hot rods and having a Dad who owned an auto parts store, it only makes sense that I should have the "itch". Yeah, you know the one I am talking about.

Saw my first 65 Cobra at the ripe old age of 12 and I was hooked. Helped Dad maintain and build his 54 Ford flathead V-8. Built my first engine at 15. A 289, which would later land in my second car, a 67 Mustang. Yearning for more lead me to a 69 Road Runner and so on. Then college and life hit and I could not figure out how to make a living having all that fun, so practicality set in and before I knew it I was driving a 72 Chrysler New Yorker. Ahhhh, how the mighty had fallen.

So, armed with a PhD in Physics, a Masters in Electrical Engineering, minors in both Structural and Mechanical Engineering (sense a trend? yeah,..math is fun!) I went forth into the world and landed in the computer industry. Been doing that for over 40 years now. Had a hand in just about every aspect of computers from chip to software design and everything in between.
Now, being semi-retired, I have allowed the "itch" to surface again. This go round I know a bit more than I did when I was 16 so I have set my personal expectations pretty high as to how well I will deal with this project.

One thing I have learned in my life is,..no matter how much you think you know, you never know as much as you thought you did. That is just me covering my butt for when I ask really stupid questions. I am sure I will.

I have read pages of the forums and many build logs. Speaking of which, I have a severe case of OCD. This just means my build log will probably be wordy and slow as I tend to be very detail oriented (Wife says,.."painfully excruciating"). You have been warned.

I told my Wife this will be the last car I ever own. Yes it has to be a daily driver, but I do have a bucket list item I want to check off, and that is to make a lap, at a track, averaging over 200MPH. This is going to take every engineering skill I have to find that balance between daily driver and race car. I may fail, but I have to set goals or it will never get done. If you are giggling right now, I hope it is only due to flatulence and not about what I said.

I am not a rich man so I tend to do things for myself as opposed to having them done. If I can make it, then I will, as long as it is cheaper to do so. I have been blessed to have a friend who has an incredible shop which he allows me access to. My garage is really small, although I do have a lift and a 60 gallon upright compressor, a powder coat booth, and a Hobart welding machine. At my friends place, I have access to a Haas mill, 450W CNC laser table, 4'x8' CNC plasma table, 3D printer, multiple lathes of various sizes, metal brakes ranging from hand machines to a 250 ton unit and much more.

I wish I had access to Solidworks, but instead, I had to write my own 3D software with FEA (Finite Element Analysis) built into it.

I understand it takes about 5 months to get the kit delivered. This gives me time to acquire the things I cannot build but want to have in the car. I already have a 427W Dart SHP based engine I was building for another project I cancelled. I know I am gong to have troubles with hood clearance but I already have the thing and so it will have to work as I cannot afford to buy another motor.

Seems like a good place to close this. Thanks for allowing me to join the fun here on the forums.

q4stix
05-13-2021, 07:09 PM
Welcome from a fellow engineer!

I know different people have different versions of detail so just be you and people with either read it or just look at the pictures you post. Either way is fine.

Why not try Fusion 360 for home use? That would get you plenty to start out. I seriously wish I had a friend with all of those things because that would make for a very sweet opportunity.

Enjoy the build and keep us posted along the way!

Snowman
05-13-2021, 10:55 PM
Welcome to the community. Your ideas for your build sound awesome and quite ambitious.

I'm curious what track you're looking into for a 200mph average? That will be quite the engineering feat with this car. I look forward to following your build and hope you don't hold back on the details. If you haven't already I recommend Edwardb's coupe build thread. Very detailed and many of us coupe builders reference it frequently. Be sure to check out his Hot Rod truck build currently underway.

Happy building,
Patrick

GoDadGo
05-14-2021, 03:39 AM
Skuzzy,

Welcome aboard, but more importantly, welcome to the family.
If you plan to build a Type-65 that can actually be a Daily Driver, then check out the build thread shown below:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26630-Edwardb%92s-Gen-3-Type-65-Coyote-Coupe-59-Build

https://youtu.be/w2pLNjTEJOM

Sir Edwardb (Paul Borror / Master Hobbyist Builder) has already built one that is "Daily Driver Capable" as are all his builds.
Any advice you get from him will be spot-on perfect and based on real-world knowledge and personal experience.

Good Luck From The Dark Dart Side!

Steve

Skuzzy
05-14-2021, 07:10 AM
Already edwardb's fine example of a build log. Lots of good stuff there, for sure. Actually, there are a few build logs which have already helped.

Texas Motor Speedway is the track I will be using for my 200MPH attempt. It is an easy track to get to speed and safely hold it.

Fusion 360 came about when I was about 90% into my software. I am not that comfortable with the FEA support in Fusion 360. Not saying there is anything wrong with it, but I am going to be trusting my life to the software, so I would rather use something I have intimate knowledge of. Complex math is kind of my thing.

It is going to be a challenge, to be sure, but I have to give it a go. The biggest challenge, at the moment, is designing an engine which can be driven on the street and still have enough power to push the car to over 200MPH. I wish I had a Coyote, or even Godzilla as they would be easier to work into that niche, but I have what I have.

Thanks for the welcome folks!

GoDadGo
05-14-2021, 10:12 AM
Put that Dart 427-W Stroker in front of a T-56 and I'd bet money that it may be possible to it that magic number.

3.23 gears with a .63 O/D and 25.7" tall rear tires mathematically will get you to 200 MPH at 5,325 RPM in top gear.

Just don't ask me to ride shotgun because I don't like going much past the 100 MPH mark.

Skuzzy
05-14-2021, 12:32 PM
Actually, I am leaning towards the TKX, wide ratio with a 0.72 overdrive and 3.31:1 gears with 355/30r19 (27.4" diameter) rear tires. At 6,000rpm that will get me about 205MPH. This is all predicated on whether or not the tires will fit. If the tires do not fit, then I could go taller on the gears, but that makes it a little more work to drive around town.

The narrow ratio TKX with the .68 overdrive is a fallback. It would be less manageable on the street, so I am hoping I can fit the tall, fat tires to the rear.

This is something I will decide on after I get the kit here and get all the measurements I need to find out what will and will not fit.

Do not worry about riding shotgun. Any time someone is in the car with me, I will never, never go over the speed limit and am very gentle with the make-me-giggle-pedal. I only do the crazy stuff when I am alone in the car.

I'll have plenty of video of the attempt(s).

GoDadGo
05-14-2021, 02:16 PM
Ironically my setup gives the Redbone Roadster Super Cruising abilities because my 5th gear is a .75 with 6th gear being a crazy .50 O/D.
Remember that the Great Dick Smith went 198 MPH way back in the day with two fewer gears.
I've only gone 124 MPH which equates to 3,000 RPM, but it felt more like 204 MPH to me.
I honestly can't imagine going that fast in any car.

The Legend Remembered:
http://wasaac.org/dsmith/dsmith.html

Skuzzy
05-14-2021, 06:55 PM
198.6MPH is the fastest I have gotten. That was a sickening day. Soooooo close.

The biggest restriction I have to deal with is getting air to the intake. The Twisted Wedge 11R 205 heads have ample breathing to pull this off. The Performer RPM air gap manifold should be able to pull it off, if I can get the air to it. The Holley Sniper,...not sure if that will be my achilles heel. I may have to put a bubble on the hood.

I have the Kevco oil pan which is about is low profile as it gets.

Balancing between street and race is always interesting.

msbrown6
05-14-2021, 07:09 PM
Wow - impressive creds and dreams. Love it. The 200 mph is ambitious but sounds like you have the credentials to pull it off. Good luck! The only issue is telling your wife that this is the "last car" - yikes. There always is one more car... :cool: Good luck buddy.

Glen Davis
05-14-2021, 09:10 PM
Check out this website to calculate top speed http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculate%20HP%20For%20Speed.php

Skuzzy
05-15-2021, 07:51 AM
I know FFR did aerodynamic studies of the type 65, but I cannot find where any specific information was posted. I will be able to accurately determine the frontal area, but not the drag coefficient, until I have it all together. Quite frankly, I need to determine the actual drag coefficient. It takes into account the rolling resistance of the tires and the various areas of friction in the drive train.

Once I get those numbers, I'll have a good idea if I have enough horsepower to even make the attempt.

Skuzzy
05-15-2021, 12:41 PM
I may revisit the TKX vs T56 transmission. I wish the ratio spreads were equal across all the gears in the T56. I cannot fathom why the ratio changes are not linear.

Glen Davis
05-15-2021, 02:45 PM
There is another formula stating as speed increases it takes an exponential requirement in horsepower because of Cd, I.E., at a given speed at takes “X” horsepower so if you double the speed you need to multiply the required horsepower by eight to achieve it. On acceleration and stopping, for every one pound of unsprung weight you remove it is like taking twenty pounds of sprung weight out of the vehicle. Another factor is a max speed for every seven pounds you remove from the vehicle it is like adding one horsepower to the engine, not a lot but everything counts in racing. I could be wrong on this and if I am please let me know as my son and I are working on a Bonneville run for 2022, F/BFALT class if we can get the gearing.

Skuzzy
05-15-2021, 04:38 PM
One of the reasons I chose the TKX. A lot lighter than the T56. Yes, you are correct on all counts.

Yes, the ole horsepower versus drag war. If you have enough horsepower you can make a brick do 200MPH, but it would not be something you would want to drive everyday. So, I have to get the Cd and weight down. Getting the Cd down will be all about managing air flow. If I lose laminar airflow, I am done. The drag will be insurmountable and I risk the body disintegrating.

The Cd study will take a while.

Good luck with your run Glen! Sounds like a fun project!

Glen Davis
05-15-2021, 07:12 PM
I am also looking at building a 200+MPH street Coupe. I don’t know if you have seen this. It is a Gen 2 Coupe I think which has completely different chassis and body but it should give you an idea. They didn’t state anywhere that I could find their Cd.
https://www.rcnmag.com/garage/salt-shakers

Skuzzy
05-15-2021, 08:39 PM
Another forum member sent me the link to the 216MPH run that Coupe did. Could not help but notice it had windows which would roll up and down. I wonder how much the side skirts helped with drag? The pipes do pose a problem if they are in the air stream. There are so many things you have to think about when talking those kinds of speeds.

I would sign an NDA if it meant I could get my hands on their aerodynamic tests.

After pondering it for a couple more hours, I think I am going to stick with the TKX transmission. If I could get the ratios I wanted, I would go with the T56 and it would be a better choice, but the ratios offered in that transmission push it to either a daily driver OR a race car. The TKX can satisfy both with little compromise.

Pulling the trigger on the order, tomorrow morning.